As a midtier, the arguement of slippi killing midtiers doesn't hold up very well, considering countless toptiers quit out on me before the match even starts.
personally for me one of the reasons it's the ping that 75% of the people i met on unranked leave, nowadays isn't happening luckly, Oh yeah i'm also a Dr Mario and Luigi/mid tier main by the way
@SSJPENGUIN that's exactly why I started paying for Ranked as a solo Mario main. I'm trying to practice, and certain people don't think its worth the time.
The branches example is the best explanation of top level Melee I've heard. This game is so deep that those branches never actually end, they become fractals. Melee is infinite
Wow excellent video, I love how you put the more broad concepts into trees so that we could follow along even if we don’t know EXACTLY what’s going on in the game or in their heads
Looking at Tafo's tweet, it feels kinda obvious that the reverse would be the more likely outcome. Mid-tier players can no longer be so easily dodged and can gain real high-level practice consistently, which massively improves their gameplay and decision-making.
love the branches analogy: it reminds me of chess openings where you can play a bad chess opening (e.g. Eric Rosen playing the stafford) and end up wining by making your opponent make mistakes
Fractal branch space is next in the lineup for mathematics. It'll follow naturally from all the graph theory that'd been developed for social networks. I'm excited to see it get really well studied in melee and chess
Regarding the branches: it's not that mid tiers cannot play those interactions (dash back grab, wd in uptilt, etc. etc.). The thing is that they can also do it but it's generally weaker than when it's done with top tier characters. Some midtiers perform better at this "general" neutral interactions and other midtiers perform better at other areas. The reason why they're midtiers is because they are not as well rounded in every aspect, nor do they excel in every aspect, of neutral and punish. Ganon is gonna have a much harder time than Mario in doing a dash back grab for a punish. Mario is gonna have a worse time trying to end stocks in comparison to Ganon, DK, etc. G&W's shield is utter shit and he cannot L cancel all of his aerials, but his punishes and approaches are good enough. Etc., etc. Mid tiers excel in very specific areas while falling behind in some other areas. This is when the branches metaphor makes the most sense. Very good video overall, didn't know about this channel. 10/10 would watch again.
@@ellachino4799 Yeah lol But still, good Bowser mains such as WarriorKnight have placed top 64 at majors (which is astonishing but testament to the character's viable options -albeit much fewer than other characters-).
@CUCAFESIS95 but even warriorknight would probably tell you that it's unlikely that anybody repeats those performances haha, Bowser isn't a character, he's a sandbag. Props to ppl who make him work
I have always thought Melee could be so much more than just the top 8 characters, and it makes me happy when people place well at events with Mid/Low tiers. I have a lot of respect for what Zain was able to do with Roy as well. Nice vid!
I think as well, UCF has made a big difference, especially to a character like DK, consistently being able to dashback is huge. Also, Uncle Punch allows mid tiers to practice their answers to uncommon scenarios that are pivotal in these match ups. Also!!, Playing on slippi on ranked is a big deal because a lot of people quit out against mid tiers. Also! The way the meta has got faster and faster, has left slower options like rolls more versatile, player attention has never been wider spread on just the top tiers. It's a good time to switch
People very often underestimate mid-tier mains in pretty much any competitive fighting game. They’re used to not having nearly as many options or “branches” as a top tier, so they have to play a heck of a lot smarter to allow the “branches” they have to work for them. And just like you said: it’s likely because of Slippi that these mid-tier mains have gotten the practice to be able to play as smart as they do in these seemingly impossible matchups.
I really appreciate your metaphor! I think talking about decisions trees is a helpful idea for understanding decision making, a difficult subject when it comes to platform fighters!
Or more accurately, the tier list is a generalization and there are nuances to each matchup that each player may be more or less equipped to deal with depending on their skill level in that matchup
I think it's not so much that that mid-tiers are upsetting high-tiers, its that mid-tiers have a new pool of resources and players to develop the meta and that the tier list isn't totally set in stone. Which is great! SSBM is a living game that still has yet to be solved! Love modern melee so much
Loved the video, very well explained and edited. If anyone wants to see an example of this outside of smash, Zangief just won a major street fighter 6 tournament when he is thought to be bottom 3 in the game. The player is Snake Eyez, and he won in a very similar way
Great video. Some ppl complain that melee should b more balanced but personally I think melee first of all is incredibly balanced that after 20+ years no 1 has uncovered some totally broken strategy but n fact the opposite is true that there is INCREASING variety n character choice and strategies. Also 2 the degree that some characters r worse than others it is imo a good thing so u can style on someone w game&watch or even the playing field against a friend or just prove u should not b tested.
a zangief player just won a street fighter 6 tournament and I hope people learn a similar lesson that this video should teach! great points all around. these games are deeper than 'top tier wins' and it's a shame when people try to reduce it to that, it takes away from players who play low, mid, or top tier imo. I'd never say there aren't advantages both general and matchup specific to playing a top tier, that's why they're top! but it doesn't mean you can't win otherwise. especially in games with so much depth and room for discovery and expression. great video, I hope a lot of people watch it!
The Fox/Falco matchup decision tree and consequentially the choice to play Luigi to circumvent all of that is the equivalent of when Chess GMs pull each other out of theory during openings if they suspect the opponent has way better preparation or experience with certain lines, even if going out of theory is superficially riskier at an engine level simply because they understand they're playing against a human and not Stockfish (the engine) and this offers them a different avenue to win through the mid/endgame.
Great video! Makes perfect sense to me. Slippi has given Melee a lot of new players who look at the game differently, and have a great way to practice with matchups. The era of local only is over. Love to see the meta develop over 20 years later.
This is a very cool video! I really loved your explanation on why mid tiers can win in a general neutral sense. I think people need more clarifications like this because arising mid tier players are simply reduced to "gimmick abusers" and it's very disrespectful to see this reasoning when the amount of work they put has to be as high as possible for them to perform regularly. Looking forward for your next content!
@@user-wm5ot5uj3q I get the thought of expectation based on historical data, but people can have sudden breakthroughs and just be better the next time. Not common but it does happen. Take Kodorin. At first he was a solid player, but now he’s top ten and has shown he can take games and sets from some of the best. He wasn’t always like that and wasn’t always considered a huge threat.
I think it was ignorant to declare the death of mid-tiers, as mid-tiers are relying less and less on mistakes, and more and more on their combo game to get ahead
My thinking is this. No one bothered to do anything with these characters because everyone told them they sucked. Seriously, who thought Yoshi was as terrifying as they were before Amsa showed up?
The editing on this video was really good, I looked through your videos and was surprised to only see two other uploads, the Tetris video was a great watch as well.
Luigi’s punish flowchart isn’t mapped out totally yet either, whereas most of the top tiers are (20XX 20GX), making some of eddie’s punishes more unexpected. Most every situation even percent, matchup and DI based situations have been mapped out for top tiers, giving usually a few different optimal options depending the scenario for top tiers. whereas low-mid tiers simply haven’t had people put this amount of work into their punish game to even figure out the flowchart yet.
A more simplistic way of saying this is that Eddy Mexico has more experience in the Luigi v Falco matchup than Mang0 does. Ultimately it comes down to execution though.
Cool video. Ienjoyed it. The logic doesn't make any sense though. The ratio of how much more experience mid-tiers had with any given match up was the same before Slippi as it is now. There were plenty of mid-tier upsets before Slippi. Like I said, I still like watching Melee content though.
I think it would be hard to find an example of multiple top 5 players dropping sets to mid tiers within a single season before the first half of this year, and for a player like eddy, he can now play better falcos which matters a lot for match up experience. Ty for the positive energy in your post though! I like engaging about the ideas
@@adust9996 despite the fact that the majority of competitive Melee's pre-Slippi, VOD-documented timeline (meaning matches that were streamed or at least recorded and posted on TH-cam) was dominated by the Five Gods era (when gods only lost to each other, and the tiers of their opponents' characters were irrelevant), I can give you an example off the top of my head right now: 2014. No-- not the year wobbles made it to winners side Evo Grand Finals (taking out Hungrybox and PPMD along the way) or when Kage beat mang0 with Ganondorf, but the year that Armada used Young Link to beat Hungrybox's Jigglypuff (and Fox!) in Evo 2014 [#1]. We also saw aMSa's Yoshi beat Mew2King's Sheik (and Fox!) in Kings of Cali 4 [#2]. Wobbles beat m2k with Ice Climbers in whatever number Infinity and Beyond! tournament happened in 2014 too [#3], and so did Nintendude's Ice Climbers in s@x - Apex [#4]. I can't remember if Axe beat Hbox or m2k in the MLG 2014, but he beat one of them in 2013 and the other in 2014 with Pikachu [#5]. There you go. A year with five mid-tier upsets, and I didn't even need to Google this. It honestly gets easier after that, especially with Leffen's multi-year Samus problem and the number of top five players who got wobbled out of sets until wobbling got banned. One thing I want to make super clear is that I'm not at all a hater. Your videos are DOPE. I like them a lot, and I'm glad I found a new channel with compelling Melee content and analysis. I just disagree with your assessment that gives Slippi credit for the so-called recent rise of mid-tiers. Please keep the Melee content coming. I'm an enthusiastic subscriber. Edit: oops-- for some reason I thought you said it'd be hard to find an example of a year where there were at least five sets where mid-tiers beat a top 5-ranked Melee player. I mean, my reply still 100% works. I just didn't need to [#number] them one by one lol.
Loved the vid. I think an important thing to note is that those main three branches of Luigi approach are all valid - any opponent can lose against them if they get the mixup wrong. I think this part of the midtier strength that sometimes gets overlooked because we assume more options is always better. It might feel better to some people, but they don't invalidate the midtier capability.
I had to quit playing melee as I refused to main anyone other than Luigi, because the effort required to beat anyone competent at the matchup skyrockets.
Hey I'm getting into melee and I kinda just play luigi and yoshi, I don't know if I should play fox or something because maybe I can apply how hard he is back to my mains and get better faster or just stick to the characters I'm using
If you occasionally dabble in the other characters, you'll undoubtedly learn things you can apply to your mains & it'll help you to gauge other characters weaknesses
As a mango fan I don’t John for mango like that at all. Losing to a wonky midtier is the mango. Also why is this video only about eddy and has no AMSA lol Great video btw I love this. mid tiers have been doing this looong before slippi
low level melee is seeing a lot more mid and low tiers because before slippi you could only practice with your friend or at tourneys, you dont have much time to fuck around with low tiers, just pick a top tier and learn it, low tiers would have to choose their character immediately and stick with them. now a player can go on slippi, fuck around with 20 characters and realize they actually love ness
So basically Leffen was right when he said Fox mains have a disadvantage due to the fact that so many people know how to play fox AND you have to play Fox differently against most characters... Yet people didn't listen to him cause he doesn't put it in a "nice way" or whatever...smh my head head...
Aaaaalright, Luigi got more entries than this my man. A whole lot more, the true problem is that Luigi mains are in fact lazy fairly often and LOVE to play their own style. But, in fact, more technical Luigi mains do and know how to do more advanced stuff. There are grab options, more than you know of. In this MU, yes (mango). And a couple of other anti laser tricks that only end-meta/top meta players can execute. Now i am from Norway, top europe. And have teamed up with a Luigi main for 8 Years, you make this entire video based on a "wow" factor, but i am not surpised by what you are. Rather, i am surprised that the freaking LAZIEST(but still best♡) luigi won 😂 His style is "shotgun". Watch mad tyro or Abate and THAT is what should beat mango 😂 But instead, the one of them that tornado-recover the worst beats mango? This speaks far more to how just brutally out of this world consistent and smart Eddy is. But the rest is not surprising. A chimera of Eddy, Mad Tyro and Abate would legit be one of the best players in the game by examining their mastery-traits alone. One recovers better than all, and combo like a machine. Another is hyper aggro and rush you down like a monster. And the third is a consistent wall that reads you and gambles on your choice and suddenly you die😂 Can you imagine them combined? It's like S2J, wizzy and N0ne combined. Bit S2J now has gotten even better than ever. Anyways, cheers.
The branches of neutral and how to read them is what we call Yomi, Ive always called Mango a heavy read based heart based player from traditional fighting game standpoint, he'll be a monster in sf if he sticks with it
No they are a yoshi without a amsa playing them! Give every character and Amsa or Axe playing then, and lets see what these low tiers characters can really do!
Because top players are losing their drive because the game is having a hard time standing on its legs. It makes sense and I also think melee players are trying really hard to push the game to its limit more then ever so that people don't get bored of this game, even tho its sorta already happening. The comments btw on this video are delusional, frustrating, and typical. Ya'll are stupid with this "melee is endlessly deep" shit.
That take was never reasonable. Rather, one of the dumber takes i have heard. Then again, i theorize all day. People don't do that. The sheep follows the flock 🥸
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
As a midtier, the arguement of slippi killing midtiers doesn't hold up very well, considering countless toptiers quit out on me before the match even starts.
personally for me one of the reasons it's the ping that 75% of the people i met on unranked leave, nowadays isn't happening luckly,
Oh yeah i'm also a Dr Mario and Luigi/mid tier main by the way
Honestly that's part of why I started paying for ranked
@SSJPENGUIN that's exactly why I started paying for Ranked as a solo Mario main. I'm trying to practice, and certain people don't think its worth the time.
Gnw main. I think he’s a mid tier don’t fight me. One of the most underrated characters in the game imo
@@Jinju___luigi gnw main and the only thing bad about gnw is the shield he would be top 5 and im not joking
The branches example is the best explanation of top level Melee I've heard. This game is so deep that those branches never actually end, they become fractals. Melee is infinite
It’s how I think about life. Everything stems from something
That probably explains why I been keep up with the meta since 04
That was a beautiful thought. As I would expect from an Alex.
Dang, man, Peach is extremely knowledgeable in Super Smash Bros. Melee for the Nintendo Gamecube.
Wow excellent video, I love how you put the more broad concepts into trees so that we could follow along even if we don’t know EXACTLY what’s going on in the game or in their heads
Looking at Tafo's tweet, it feels kinda obvious that the reverse would be the more likely outcome. Mid-tier players can no longer be so easily dodged and can gain real high-level practice consistently, which massively improves their gameplay and decision-making.
love the branches analogy: it reminds me of chess openings where you can play a bad chess opening (e.g. Eric Rosen playing the stafford) and end up wining by making your opponent make mistakes
Fractal branch space is next in the lineup for mathematics. It'll follow naturally from all the graph theory that'd been developed for social networks. I'm excited to see it get really well studied in melee and chess
It's funny you bring the chess analogy because there are moments where I "see checkmate" and know that a stock is guaranteed even a few moves out
Morsecode is a sick samus, so fun to watch as a player, I’m not surprised he beat a player like Jmook, his play style is quite different
This is why hbox didnt play friendlies for a decade
broo the branch way of explaining neutral is fucking genius
Regarding the branches: it's not that mid tiers cannot play those interactions (dash back grab, wd in uptilt, etc. etc.). The thing is that they can also do it but it's generally weaker than when it's done with top tier characters. Some midtiers perform better at this "general" neutral interactions and other midtiers perform better at other areas. The reason why they're midtiers is because they are not as well rounded in every aspect, nor do they excel in every aspect, of neutral and punish.
Ganon is gonna have a much harder time than Mario in doing a dash back grab for a punish. Mario is gonna have a worse time trying to end stocks in comparison to Ganon, DK, etc. G&W's shield is utter shit and he cannot L cancel all of his aerials, but his punishes and approaches are good enough. Etc., etc.
Mid tiers excel in very specific areas while falling behind in some other areas. This is when the branches metaphor makes the most sense.
Very good video overall, didn't know about this channel. 10/10 would watch again.
Then there's Bowser...
@@ellachino4799 Yeah lol But still, good Bowser mains such as WarriorKnight have placed top 64 at majors (which is astonishing but testament to the character's viable options -albeit much fewer than other characters-).
@CUCAFESIS95 but even warriorknight would probably tell you that it's unlikely that anybody repeats those performances haha, Bowser isn't a character, he's a sandbag. Props to ppl who make him work
I have always thought Melee could be so much more than just the top 8 characters, and it makes me happy when people place well at events with Mid/Low tiers. I have a lot of respect for what Zain was able to do with Roy as well. Nice vid!
wow... wonder who edited this fine masterpiece
who
its almost like the editor is right in front of our faces
the peach background is faust vs johnny in xrd on the uhh i forgot what its called but the kum stage i think right ?
I think as well, UCF has made a big difference, especially to a character like DK, consistently being able to dashback is huge. Also, Uncle Punch allows mid tiers to practice their answers to uncommon scenarios that are pivotal in these match ups. Also!!, Playing on slippi on ranked is a big deal because a lot of people quit out against mid tiers. Also! The way the meta has got faster and faster, has left slower options like rolls more versatile, player attention has never been wider spread on just the top tiers. It's a good time to switch
People very often underestimate mid-tier mains in pretty much any competitive fighting game.
They’re used to not having nearly as many options or “branches” as a top tier, so they have to play a heck of a lot smarter to allow the “branches” they have to work for them. And just like you said: it’s likely because of Slippi that these mid-tier mains have gotten the practice to be able to play as smart as they do in these seemingly impossible matchups.
everytime luigi gets a win, a documentary is made to explain how lol
I really appreciate your metaphor! I think talking about decisions trees is a helpful idea for understanding decision making, a difficult subject when it comes to platform fighters!
Skill ceiling >>> tier list
Or more accurately, the tier list is a generalization and there are nuances to each matchup that each player may be more or less equipped to deal with depending on their skill level in that matchup
Luigi is CRIMINALLY underrated.
I think it's not so much that that mid-tiers are upsetting high-tiers, its that mid-tiers have a new pool of resources and players to develop the meta and that the tier list isn't totally set in stone. Which is great! SSBM is a living game that still has yet to be solved! Love modern melee so much
Anytime a melee hater is like "man its just fox, marth, shiek and jpuff" I'm like amsa, franz, Axe, EddyMexico, friggin RINGLER. love modern melee.
Loved the video, very well explained and edited. If anyone wants to see an example of this outside of smash, Zangief just won a major street fighter 6 tournament when he is thought to be bottom 3 in the game.
The player is Snake Eyez, and he won in a very similar way
Great video. Some ppl complain that melee should b more balanced but personally I think melee first of all is incredibly balanced that after 20+ years no 1 has uncovered some totally broken strategy but n fact the opposite is true that there is INCREASING variety n character choice and strategies. Also 2 the degree that some characters r worse than others it is imo a good thing so u can style on someone w game&watch or even the playing field against a friend or just prove u should not b tested.
Sick channel dude. I'm going to recommend my friends to this vid.
BANGER video bro also nice music and editing rlly high quality
"Let's see Luigi's tree" had me
a zangief player just won a street fighter 6 tournament and I hope people learn a similar lesson that this video should teach! great points all around. these games are deeper than 'top tier wins' and it's a shame when people try to reduce it to that, it takes away from players who play low, mid, or top tier imo. I'd never say there aren't advantages both general and matchup specific to playing a top tier, that's why they're top! but it doesn't mean you can't win otherwise. especially in games with so much depth and room for discovery and expression.
great video, I hope a lot of people watch it!
Great idea, fantastic editing, really enjoyed this video!
Love to see how much melee there is left to be played
The Fox/Falco matchup decision tree and consequentially the choice to play Luigi to circumvent all of that is the equivalent of when Chess GMs pull each other out of theory during openings if they suspect the opponent has way better preparation or experience with certain lines, even if going out of theory is superficially riskier at an engine level simply because they understand they're playing against a human and not Stockfish (the engine) and this offers them a different avenue to win through the mid/endgame.
Great video! Makes perfect sense to me. Slippi has given Melee a lot of new players who look at the game differently, and have a great way to practice with matchups. The era of local only is over. Love to see the meta develop over 20 years later.
This is a very cool video! I really loved your explanation on why mid tiers can win in a general neutral sense.
I think people need more clarifications like this because arising mid tier players are simply reduced to "gimmick abusers" and it's very disrespectful to see this reasoning when the amount of work they put has to be as high as possible for them to perform regularly.
Looking forward for your next content!
Hey thank goodness after watching years of smash bros, TH-cam finally started recommending more than just 4 creators. I like this video.
As a mango fan, losing to some dude hes not supposed to lose to is the mango
I think the idea of "not supposed to lose to" is questionable.
@@itsbmeGaming why
@@user-wm5ot5uj3q I get the thought of expectation based on historical data, but people can have sudden breakthroughs and just be better the next time. Not common but it does happen.
Take Kodorin. At first he was a solid player, but now he’s top ten and has shown he can take games and sets from some of the best. He wasn’t always like that and wasn’t always considered a huge threat.
I think it was ignorant to declare the death of mid-tiers, as mid-tiers are relying less and less on mistakes, and more and more on their combo game to get ahead
My thinking is this. No one bothered to do anything with these characters because everyone told them they sucked. Seriously, who thought Yoshi was as terrifying as they were before Amsa showed up?
loved this vid, explained mid tiers really well.
Love the uploads lately!
Another great vid, can't wait for more
Amsa, a Yoshi player, and Axe, a Pikachu player, have both won majors with the best players in attendance.
Mid tiers can win tournaments!
The editing on this video was really good, I looked through your videos and was surprised to only see two other uploads, the Tetris video was a great watch as well.
more to come soon hopefully! glad u liked it
i luv the peach avatar
Sick! super cool to watch
Something something Bruce lee something something 1 kick 1000 hours
ignoring the peach, sick video
Luigi’s punish flowchart isn’t mapped out totally yet either, whereas most of the top tiers are (20XX 20GX), making some of eddie’s punishes more unexpected. Most every situation even percent, matchup and DI based situations have been mapped out for top tiers, giving usually a few different optimal options depending the scenario for top tiers. whereas low-mid tiers simply haven’t had people put this amount of work into their punish game to even figure out the flowchart yet.
The reason is pretty simple. It was hard for mid tier mains to get practice against good players and now it’s much much much easier
genius conclusion
Answer: 12 shots of apple Jim Beam
Clean vid
i love this peach avatar
A more simplistic way of saying this is that Eddy Mexico has more experience in the Luigi v Falco matchup than Mang0 does. Ultimately it comes down to execution though.
Hope he mentions Aklo's Link win
he
didn't
fucking excellent videos you've got here
You just got Luigi’d
Sad Ultimate Mid Tier Hours
*Cries in Ultimate*
Great video! 👏🏽
Cool video. Ienjoyed it. The logic doesn't make any sense though. The ratio of how much more experience mid-tiers had with any given match up was the same before Slippi as it is now. There were plenty of mid-tier upsets before Slippi. Like I said, I still like watching Melee content though.
I think it would be hard to find an example of multiple top 5 players dropping sets to mid tiers within a single season before the first half of this year, and for a player like eddy, he can now play better falcos which matters a lot for match up experience. Ty for the positive energy in your post though! I like engaging about the ideas
@@adust9996 despite the fact that the majority of competitive Melee's pre-Slippi, VOD-documented timeline (meaning matches that were streamed or at least recorded and posted on TH-cam) was dominated by the Five Gods era (when gods only lost to each other, and the tiers of their opponents' characters were irrelevant), I can give you an example off the top of my head right now: 2014. No-- not the year wobbles made it to winners side Evo Grand Finals (taking out Hungrybox and PPMD along the way) or when Kage beat mang0 with Ganondorf, but the year that Armada used Young Link to beat Hungrybox's Jigglypuff (and Fox!) in Evo 2014 [#1]. We also saw aMSa's Yoshi beat Mew2King's Sheik (and Fox!) in Kings of Cali 4 [#2]. Wobbles beat m2k with Ice Climbers in whatever number Infinity and Beyond! tournament happened in 2014 too [#3], and so did Nintendude's Ice Climbers in s@x - Apex [#4]. I can't remember if Axe beat Hbox or m2k in the MLG 2014, but he beat one of them in 2013 and the other in 2014 with Pikachu [#5]. There you go. A year with five mid-tier upsets, and I didn't even need to Google this. It honestly gets easier after that, especially with Leffen's multi-year Samus problem and the number of top five players who got wobbled out of sets until wobbling got banned. One thing I want to make super clear is that I'm not at all a hater. Your videos are DOPE. I like them a lot, and I'm glad I found a new channel with compelling Melee content and analysis. I just disagree with your assessment that gives Slippi credit for the so-called recent rise of mid-tiers. Please keep the Melee content coming. I'm an enthusiastic subscriber.
Edit: oops-- for some reason I thought you said it'd be hard to find an example of a year where there were at least five sets where mid-tiers beat a top 5-ranked Melee player. I mean, my reply still 100% works. I just didn't need to [#number] them one by one lol.
Loved the vid. I think an important thing to note is that those main three branches of Luigi approach are all valid - any opponent can lose against them if they get the mixup wrong. I think this part of the midtier strength that sometimes gets overlooked because we assume more options is always better. It might feel better to some people, but they don't invalidate the midtier capability.
Subbed before 1K. Love low tier content.
I had to quit playing melee as I refused to main anyone other than Luigi, because the effort required to beat anyone competent at the matchup skyrockets.
Hey I'm getting into melee and I kinda just play luigi and yoshi, I don't know if I should play fox or something because maybe I can apply how hard he is back to my mains and get better faster or just stick to the characters I'm using
If you occasionally dabble in the other characters, you'll undoubtedly learn things you can apply to your mains & it'll help you to gauge other characters weaknesses
matchup xp
good video thank you
Fuck yeah new upload from the goat
Solid video!
As a mango fan I don’t John for mango like that at all. Losing to a wonky midtier is the mango. Also why is this video only about eddy and has no AMSA lol
Great video btw I love this. mid tiers have been doing this looong before slippi
low level melee is seeing a lot more mid and low tiers because before slippi you could only practice with your friend or at tourneys, you dont have much time to fuck around with low tiers, just pick a top tier and learn it, low tiers would have to choose their character immediately and stick with them. now a player can go on slippi, fuck around with 20 characters and realize they actually love ness
So basically Leffen was right when he said Fox mains have a disadvantage due to the fact that so many people know how to play fox AND you have to play Fox differently against most characters...
Yet people didn't listen to him cause he doesn't put it in a "nice way" or whatever...smh my head head...
Luigi is number one
flames!
Falco has to be the most Melee character that exists.
Not even Fox compares to the beauty of top level Falco.
Spacie brainrot
Falcon*
You misspelled "Kirby" but yeah, totally agree with ya
Good video
Fire content
Jmook also lost to MoF's Iceies.
MY GOAT MY GOAT
Cool video but I disagree with the definition of cheese. Cheese isn’t only something that can happen to someone once wait: I love your videos!!!!!
Aaaaalright, Luigi got more entries than this my man. A whole lot more, the true problem is that Luigi mains are in fact lazy fairly often and LOVE to play their own style. But, in fact, more technical Luigi mains do and know how to do more advanced stuff. There are grab options, more than you know of. In this MU, yes (mango). And a couple of other anti laser tricks that only end-meta/top meta players can execute. Now i am from Norway, top europe. And have teamed up with a Luigi main for 8 Years, you make this entire video based on a "wow" factor, but i am not surpised by what you are. Rather, i am surprised that the freaking LAZIEST(but still best♡) luigi won 😂 His style is "shotgun". Watch mad tyro or Abate and THAT is what should beat mango 😂 But instead, the one of them that tornado-recover the worst beats mango? This speaks far more to how just brutally out of this world consistent and smart Eddy is. But the rest is not surprising. A chimera of Eddy, Mad Tyro and Abate would legit be one of the best players in the game by examining their mastery-traits alone. One recovers better than all, and combo like a machine. Another is hyper aggro and rush you down like a monster. And the third is a consistent wall that reads you and gambles on your choice and suddenly you die😂 Can you imagine them combined? It's like S2J, wizzy and N0ne combined. Bit S2J now has gotten even better than ever. Anyways, cheers.
Mang0 hasn’t beaten eddy mexico since 2011 people really love to mythologize all of this lmao
omg banger
I've actually taken a game off of morsecode at a random, sketchy ass local. Soooo ig I'm better than jmook.....
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big adust fan
Cool John
Yeeep
so you're saying mid tiers are like playing weird chess openings?
as someone who plays Reti Opening and Dr. Mario, yes that is exactly it.
millions is way out of line hahaha
algorithm comment
The branches of neutral and how to read them is what we call Yomi, Ive always called Mango a heavy read based heart based player from traditional fighting game standpoint, he'll be a monster in sf if he sticks with it
HE USED THE SCOTT PILGRIM VS THE WORLD SHOP MUSIC LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOOOO
No they are a yoshi without a amsa playing them! Give every character and Amsa or Axe playing then, and lets see what these low tiers characters can really do!
8:04
Why Safari Peach is talking with a male voice without moving her lips at all that's just creepy bro
i like everything you're saying except that you're referring to several high tiers as mid tiers
Because top players are losing their drive because the game is having a hard time standing on its legs. It makes sense and I also think melee players are trying really hard to push the game to its limit more then ever so that people don't get bored of this game, even tho its sorta already happening.
The comments btw on this video are delusional, frustrating, and typical. Ya'll are stupid with this "melee is endlessly deep" shit.
No Mang0 lost cuz he threw for content lol
He didnt throw legit but he even said he didnt have it in him to try hard.
That take was never reasonable. Rather, one of the dumber takes i have heard. Then again, i theorize all day. People don't do that. The sheep follows the flock 🥸