People love Plup as a player, but being from his region and interacting with him/seeing him interacting with others, he’s also a very funny guy with a good dry sense of humor.
Never interacted with him in person but have been watching his stream (when he decides to go live...) for the past year or so and this is absolutely why I love him. He just cracks me up consistently, and is a really laid back dude. Of course on top of that I swear he's the most cracked player in the world when he's playing hot. Wish he had the fire of cody or zain to attend more stuff and grind
The reason I hate samus is because every time you send her offstage you have to wait 15 seconds to start playing the game again. It wouldn't be so bad if she instantly teleported to ledge but instead you have to watch her spam bombs, double jump towards the stage, more bombs, airdodge, grapple, and then grab ledge before you can begin thinking about your next move. To me, samus not approaching or spamming projectiles is not a big deal compared to wasting 15 seconds every time I hit her.
Dope vid :D Rare to see Samus specific content. I've mained Samus since 2008, have taken sets off of Top 100 players and have played competitively in Socal for a long time. Here's my perspective! People typically don't like the character because the best way to play against her (at a high level), polarizes how most people typically approach the game, both neutral and punish+combo game. So matchup knowledge+discipline become crucial against Samus, and since not a lot of players exist that play her proficiently at a high level, getting consistent practice against her is a scarce training resource. Yoshi and Samus are the most MU demanding characters to secure wins the higher level you go btw. But you can imagine how savage a high-level Samus can feel for the bulk of the community, which is predominantly mid-level or lower. She makes the game feel different ENOUGH that it's simpler to be like wtf was that, this character is lame af I'm gonna go play normally with my 20% style-change-per matchup against the rest of the cast. Make sense? Here's more insight.... She has quick response time/wakes up out of combos due to being heavy, so if people don't have the right retreat timer in the matchup, they end up getting counter hit a loooot. AKA a lot of things that typically work against literally everyone above her in the Tier List literally do the opposite and give her advantage back, which is frustrating and requires very specific and usually opposite matchup habits. A huge huge thing you missed that is almost the keystone of hate towards her is her insane CC game. She also has an insane walk and a lot of her good ground game options are done out of walk (again the higher level you go), and not out of wavedash like most people think. And usually someone owning your arsenal of options from walk gives off the impression that less skill was needed, it's slower so it seems lamer, etc. She becomes more and more gimicky the higher level you play and relies more and more on the opponent making mistakes vs outplay, which explains in a nutshell why she's never won a Major, even in Plups' hands. Lil summary on why she's stuck in mid-tier is her: lack of disjointed hitboxes (like marth sword, and the higher level you go, the more important tight spacing becomes and she flat out loses trades once out of her allowable CC % range), lack of a normal grab is probably the biggest one, and tall hurtbox (Melee's shield is fixed for every character, so she ends up getting poked out of shield too much because of her head and feet). Another thing that sucks is that she runs upright, and even tho her and Marth are the same height just about, he leans forward, so he's less vulnerable when dash dancing basically. Sorry for essay, but there ain't a lot of die-hard, sweaty Samus mains out there so figured it'd be interesting for at least some peeps out there to get kind of breakdown! Love the vid btw ^_^ keep makin em!
As a mid level Samus main in Ultimate, I love watching videos like these and reading comments from more experienced players. I hope to be as knowledgeable as you some day! :)
Hey really cool to hear your perspective. I hear this about Puff too, how it ruins the regular Melee that they play. How do you have a healthy mentality towards this? Cause they make me feel like sometimes I'm being selfish and only caring about my Melee and my fun. While ruining there's. I usually try to counter by thinking how everyone has the right to enjoy Melee the way they want to, and how with effort Puff is actually quite comboable by top tiers and isn't the only floaty, but curious how you go about it.
I think your video is pretty spot on with why people like Plup's Samus. I wonder if it's also due to just Plup being at the top 10 level playing ANY character. It kinda reminds me of how Axe picks up any character we all love to watch it. Addressing your outtro: make videos on whatever you're passionate about. I've loved every video you've put out ^.^
W video and i love hearing about the intricacies of what makes a character or player be viewed as lame or cool within the community, because at the end of the day its preference, but that also makes it interesting.
I hate Samus because it’s just the loop of projectile spamming neutral > I approach > Samus player holds down > forced to use un cc-able option > leads into nothing.
As a samus main trying to decrease the stigma against her I try to recover as fast as possible and approach as much as possible. Even if it works on my opponents favour, I have won the true battle by convincing another person that samus is less lame than he thinks
Played Samus from 2013 to 2021. People don’t like Samus because you cannot flowchart her like other characters. She beats lots of common approaches & requires a completely different set of skills to punish properly. Most players don’t want to put in the work to deal with that.
I think this can also apply to BBB, who has some of the sickest falco combos bar none, but also some of the lamest neutral bar none, but he’s still seen as hype
People are incredibly simple. If you are a top level player you value and respect skill because you yourself have put in the work, but otherwise it's just people looking for the most basic "oooohhh character do cool stuff I like". I don't even play melee or smash in general, that's just true across all games.
I've never really come across many people that hated fighting my Samus specifically. But your video has many valid points, and yeah everybody loves plup regardless of who he plays haha
Melee players don't like playing against Samus because they're a rare character imo not because of the character's playstyle. You don't develop the skills necessary to beat Samus by playing the most popular picks in the game. People hate putting extra study into something they're doing as a hobby. People bitching about rare characters is a story as old as fighting games.
Entertaining video! On the KJH point, he goes somewhat even with morsecode these days, the goat I also think people like plup so much just cause he's plup tho. They already know he's so skilled so they watch his gameplay with forgiving glasses. They won't see him as a cheeser when he plays campy and gets a big punish. When swooper does the same thing, he doesn't get the same treatment. Opinion on a player goes a long way in how you actually perceive their gameplay Edit: I want to add that this is also in addition to what you say in the video, not just in contradiction to what you say
People don't like Samus because they play unranked 6-9 hours a day and have no dopamine left for the game so when they run into someone they can't easily combo they rage
Would love to see a video like this with Luigi. Always seems like people hate fighting him too, but I remember back when Abate got top 8 at one of the Big Houses Luigi temporarily got kinda popular.
up b oos is not that good.. it's punishable on hit in lots of situations.. sure you have to respect her shield in neutral with your spacing and pressure, but she has an ass grab so she ALWAYS has to struggle against YOUR shield. Your other points about recovery and her defensive play are good tho.
Technically kinda correct but i also think shield pressure is still not as good as it could be and i think one day a samus main will get very consistent at bomb pressure
Good points, but your video presentation needs a lot of work. The washed out webcam, the low framerate, the camera shaking, and the uncompressed audio of your voice losing out to the music...
Thanks for the suggestion, TH-cam is really a hobby right now while I finish my law degree, but once I’m working I might invest some money into a better camera! Thanks for watching
Do you disagree though? No hate to the guy. I'm not that familiar, but that was my impression of the general sentiment towards him. I honestly didn't think he'd be ranked as high as he his given how little I hear about him
I will say, I think what you're saying isn't untrue but I think the bigger factor is just that people like plup and so they're excited to see him playing a weird bad character that he's good with. people love his Luigi as well. I think it's also why people love don't test me so much (myself included). it's zain, an incredible player, playing a dubious character and still kicking ass with said character. people just think that's cool even if the person is playing lame (and ngl, dtm plays pretty lame at times lmao)
Like with any hated character in fighters, it all comes down to whether you're actually good at the game or not, I say that because most complainers aren't in the realm of skill to complain because they're being filtered by their skill rather than the character. Most people who engage in character hate aren't good flat out, they have bad mentality and want to play fast faller simulator for the Nintendo gamecube instead of a fighting game. You cant play against fast fallers 24/7, and maybe just maybe you should realize this and become a better player instead of going 0-2 in a bracket because you're not "comfortable with a matchup".
People don't hate Samus, it is usually a well respected character, and not even close to the hate tier where IC and Puff are. Also, her recovery is not that good, sure she will come back every time but it is not difficult to edgeward her, specially as sheik and marth. It is true that people hate campy play but that is not the standard for Samus, and it is even less common in mid-high tier players because her defensive options are not difficult to play around. Plup has never been campy and does crazy combos with any character, and he has a really likeable personality, that's why people love him.
A big distinction I wanted to make was not only that people find his gameplay hype, but specifically why when generally everyone would agree that the neutral game he’s playing is still very defensive. I find it interesting that players who play very defensive in neutral can still be considered very hype and exciting players, and I’m sorry if the video did not communicate that well! Thanks for watching.
@@adust9996 Just messing with you. Great video. I have been playing Samus forever (like.. forever forever) and subscribe to the channel you briefly showed (there's a similar Doctor Mario channel that I sub to too). I've never seen one of your videos before, and I suspect TH-cam showed it to me because of the channel that usually get hundreds of views per video, but I'm gonna subscribe to you now.
plup is so cool and totally isn't holding me and my family hostage
He would never ;)
People love Plup as a player, but being from his region and interacting with him/seeing him interacting with others, he’s also a very funny guy with a good dry sense of humor.
Never interacted with him in person but have been watching his stream (when he decides to go live...) for the past year or so and this is absolutely why I love him. He just cracks me up consistently, and is a really laid back dude. Of course on top of that I swear he's the most cracked player in the world when he's playing hot. Wish he had the fire of cody or zain to attend more stuff and grind
The reason I hate samus is because every time you send her offstage you have to wait 15 seconds to start playing the game again. It wouldn't be so bad if she instantly teleported to ledge but instead you have to watch her spam bombs, double jump towards the stage, more bombs, airdodge, grapple, and then grab ledge before you can begin thinking about your next move. To me, samus not approaching or spamming projectiles is not a big deal compared to wasting 15 seconds every time I hit her.
definitely a super valid reason lol. if i hadn’t played against only samus for like the first year of my career then i’d hate it a lot more for sure.
One of the reasons my friend picked up samus to make me impatient 😂
Valid
Wouldn't be an issue if people would just let us come back for free :) (not serious)
RIGHT every time i hit has after like 80% i’ve got to watch a fucking cutscene
I love playing against Samus. She can really change the pace of a game, and it forces me to approach situations differently than I normally would.
Why is melee content always so high quality? Great video in everything from content to structure. Kudos
Dope vid :D Rare to see Samus specific content. I've mained Samus since 2008, have taken sets off of Top 100 players and have played competitively in Socal for a long time. Here's my perspective!
People typically don't like the character because the best way to play against her (at a high level), polarizes how most people typically approach the game, both neutral and punish+combo game. So matchup knowledge+discipline become crucial against Samus, and since not a lot of players exist that play her proficiently at a high level, getting consistent practice against her is a scarce training resource. Yoshi and Samus are the most MU demanding characters to secure wins the higher level you go btw. But you can imagine how savage a high-level Samus can feel for the bulk of the community, which is predominantly mid-level or lower. She makes the game feel different ENOUGH that it's simpler to be like wtf was that, this character is lame af I'm gonna go play normally with my 20% style-change-per matchup against the rest of the cast. Make sense? Here's more insight....
She has quick response time/wakes up out of combos due to being heavy, so if people don't have the right retreat timer in the matchup, they end up getting counter hit a loooot. AKA a lot of things that typically work against literally everyone above her in the Tier List literally do the opposite and give her advantage back, which is frustrating and requires very specific and usually opposite matchup habits. A huge huge thing you missed that is almost the keystone of hate towards her is her insane CC game. She also has an insane walk and a lot of her good ground game options are done out of walk (again the higher level you go), and not out of wavedash like most people think. And usually someone owning your arsenal of options from walk gives off the impression that less skill was needed, it's slower so it seems lamer, etc.
She becomes more and more gimicky the higher level you play and relies more and more on the opponent making mistakes vs outplay, which explains in a nutshell why she's never won a Major, even in Plups' hands. Lil summary on why she's stuck in mid-tier is her: lack of disjointed hitboxes (like marth sword, and the higher level you go, the more important tight spacing becomes and she flat out loses trades once out of her allowable CC % range), lack of a normal grab is probably the biggest one, and tall hurtbox (Melee's shield is fixed for every character, so she ends up getting poked out of shield too much because of her head and feet). Another thing that sucks is that she runs upright, and even tho her and Marth are the same height just about, he leans forward, so he's less vulnerable when dash dancing basically.
Sorry for essay, but there ain't a lot of die-hard, sweaty Samus mains out there so figured it'd be interesting for at least some peeps out there to get kind of breakdown! Love the vid btw ^_^ keep makin em!
A lot of work in this comment. Thanks for putting that much into it.
As a mid level Samus main in Ultimate, I love watching videos like these and reading comments from more experienced players. I hope to be as knowledgeable as you some day! :)
Hey really cool to hear your perspective.
I hear this about Puff too, how it ruins the regular Melee that they play.
How do you have a healthy mentality towards this? Cause they make me feel like sometimes I'm being selfish and only caring about my Melee and my fun. While ruining there's.
I usually try to counter by thinking how everyone has the right to enjoy Melee the way they want to, and how with effort Puff is actually quite comboable by top tiers and isn't the only floaty, but curious how you go about it.
Yeah Floaty MUs is where Brawl meets Melee lol
I think your video is pretty spot on with why people like Plup's Samus. I wonder if it's also due to just Plup being at the top 10 level playing ANY character. It kinda reminds me of how Axe picks up any character we all love to watch it.
Addressing your outtro: make videos on whatever you're passionate about. I've loved every video you've put out ^.^
W video and i love hearing about the intricacies of what makes a character or player be viewed as lame or cool within the community, because at the end of the day its preference, but that also makes it interesting.
I hate Samus because it’s just the loop of projectile spamming neutral > I approach > Samus player holds down > forced to use un cc-able option > leads into nothing.
Melee Samus fucking rules I don't care that she makes people mad online
love the video! how has this not hundreds of views? keep it up!
As a samus main trying to decrease the stigma against her I try to recover as fast as possible and approach as much as possible. Even if it works on my opponents favour, I have won the true battle by convincing another person that samus is less lame than he thinks
I do the same thing, and play as fast and aggressive as I can. It's my favorite way to play anyway
I don’t hate Samus, though maybe that’s because I main Samus
Whoaa.
I felt this way about Plup’s Samus for a long time, but for other floaties too, most notably Mango’s Puff!
So cool to see a video like this 🔥
Played Samus from 2013 to 2021. People don’t like Samus because you cannot flowchart her like other characters. She beats lots of common approaches & requires a completely different set of skills to punish properly. Most players don’t want to put in the work to deal with that.
I think this can also apply to BBB, who has some of the sickest falco combos bar none, but also some of the lamest neutral bar none, but he’s still seen as hype
Was thinking about using his as an example actually instead of m2k, but I went with m2k for broader understanding, but yes I totally agree
what do you mean BBB literally shoots 2 lasers a game
4:23 I wish the same could be said for Ultimate
i hate fighting samus because i want the opponent to feel bad and let it weigh on their conscience
People are incredibly simple. If you are a top level player you value and respect skill because you yourself have put in the work, but otherwise it's just people looking for the most basic "oooohhh character do cool stuff I like". I don't even play melee or smash in general, that's just true across all games.
You’re one of the best melee creators I’ve seen, banger after banger
Under a minute
See a vast land of
Unexplored hours of Melee
Samus taught me empathy. Plup taught me DOTA.
really well written and insightful vid! I learned a lot
great commentating dude, you got the talking down fr. excited to see where you take the channel !
I don't hate Samus, I like to to tech chase her with down throw (with fox). Also since she is heavy the combo game is satisfying when you hit it.
Yooooooo shoutout adust lol. Also extendor for Samus go hard lol
I've never really come across many people that hated fighting my Samus specifically. But your video has many valid points, and yeah everybody loves plup regardless of who he plays haha
Your videos are unique and entertaining. Keep it up
would love this in ultimate too
this format has big potential
samus games are SO Demanding, get ready for a 5 minute game if your playing luigi.
I really liked the Peach model from other videos! I think it made them stand out more.
holy shit i love rafael
Melee players don't like playing against Samus because they're a rare character imo not because of the character's playstyle. You don't develop the skills necessary to beat Samus by playing the most popular picks in the game. People hate putting extra study into something they're doing as a hobby. People bitching about rare characters is a story as old as fighting games.
Entertaining video! On the KJH point, he goes somewhat even with morsecode these days, the goat
I also think people like plup so much just cause he's plup tho. They already know he's so skilled so they watch his gameplay with forgiving glasses. They won't see him as a cheeser when he plays campy and gets a big punish. When swooper does the same thing, he doesn't get the same treatment. Opinion on a player goes a long way in how you actually perceive their gameplay
Edit: I want to add that this is also in addition to what you say in the video, not just in contradiction to what you say
One time morsecode kicked my dog
@@ThirdXavier your dog probably deserved it
People don't like Samus because they play unranked 6-9 hours a day and have no dopamine left for the game so when they run into someone they can't easily combo they rage
really well done. the people will know about you
I don't even hate samus lol-
Love this video!! Lots of insight for all levels of player :)
Complimentary engagement
Mang0 has both. The aggression and the creativity in both neutral and combo’s
Love your videos, keep going!
amazing content!!!
as a recently reformed samus hater i gotta say i think ur on the money
because plup is cute :)
Samus main since 3 A.D. She doesn't have to be good she just has to have more actual mechanics from metroid
nice vid do the falco 1 :3
Super cool man, great video, maybe next time get out of pools at shine and then I’ll listen to your mid takes
I heard he isn't even going to be on the PR in his state this season. Smh.
These videos are amazing
Cool video and good breakdown!
plup
peach deserves more hate imo
Would love to see a video like this with Luigi. Always seems like people hate fighting him too, but I remember back when Abate got top 8 at one of the Big Houses Luigi temporarily got kinda popular.
people hate luigi because his down-b is just a taunt
Well, I like Samus as a character and currently i'm not a truly fan of Plup.
I admit he's a good player, however.
because plup funny :3
love this video
Now do hungrybox. Oh wait
good video ◡̈
What game is this SNES music from in this video?
based
up b oos is not that good.. it's punishable on hit in lots of situations.. sure you have to respect her shield in neutral with your spacing and pressure, but she has an ass grab so she ALWAYS has to struggle against YOUR shield. Your other points about recovery and her defensive play are good tho.
Technically kinda correct but i also think shield pressure is still not as good as it could be and i think one day a samus main will get very consistent at bomb pressure
Good points, but your video presentation needs a lot of work. The washed out webcam, the low framerate, the camera shaking, and the uncompressed audio of your voice losing out to the music...
Thanks for the suggestion, TH-cam is really a hobby right now while I finish my law degree, but once I’m working I might invest some money into a better camera! Thanks for watching
this video is awesome but hearing nobody thinks of llod as an insanely hype player made me so sad 😢
Do you disagree though? No hate to the guy. I'm not that familiar, but that was my impression of the general sentiment towards him. I honestly didn't think he'd be ranked as high as he his given how little I hear about him
Another adust banger
Who hates Samus? I love her
I will say, I think what you're saying isn't untrue but I think the bigger factor is just that people like plup and so they're excited to see him playing a weird bad character that he's good with. people love his Luigi as well. I think it's also why people love don't test me so much (myself included). it's zain, an incredible player, playing a dubious character and still kicking ass with said character. people just think that's cool even if the person is playing lame (and ngl, dtm plays pretty lame at times lmao)
wow
sdi out of samus up b and ur actionable before her every time its so free i promise
Hey gancho, I can’t help but notice it seems like you have the stormlight archive back there. Not sure if I’m right so please let me know!
Actually after looking again I think I’m wrong, kinda hard to tell
plub
Samus is a tank
nice video :)
I actually like that match, I know it very well. I any Sami’s out there would like to play?
hola
Like with any hated character in fighters, it all comes down to whether you're actually good at the game or not, I say that because most complainers aren't in the realm of skill to complain because they're being filtered by their skill rather than the character. Most people who engage in character hate aren't good flat out, they have bad mentality and want to play fast faller simulator for the Nintendo gamecube instead of a fighting game. You cant play against fast fallers 24/7, and maybe just maybe you should realize this and become a better player instead of going 0-2 in a bracket because you're not "comfortable with a matchup".
Fuck Plup - keep Samus tho.
People don't hate Samus, it is usually a well respected character, and not even close to the hate tier where IC and Puff are.
Also, her recovery is not that good, sure she will come back every time but it is not difficult to edgeward her, specially as sheik and marth.
It is true that people hate campy play but that is not the standard for Samus, and it is even less common in mid-high tier players because her defensive options are not difficult to play around.
Plup has never been campy and does crazy combos with any character, and he has a really likeable personality, that's why people love him.
nah people really hate samus like alot
As a reasonably good samus, marth is not very good at edgeguarding samus, imo.
Marth struggles to kill Samus. Fox and Sheik are what you were looking for
@@TheBeggies95 Puff too
Nice video
I don't hate Samus tho :)))
MMM NO THE PROBOLIM IN SAMUD SHE IS TOO BIJ! WHT SHE SO BUG?? IF SAKERGUY HAD COUOD MAKE A GOOD GAME? BUT NO SAMOS BUG LIKR DUNASAR ARE DIE?? 🤔🤔
I hate both because they both are crazy
Song at the start?
samus is the goat
a dust
m2ks playstyle was NOT loved or even generally liked. good vid overall but that was a pretty bad example.
Actually I hate Samus because she is bad
I play samus and ICs the two most annoying characters to play against
tell llama i said whats up
I loaded this video up and went into a match, and of course it was a Samus 😂. Took your advice and played patiently, worked out!
Nobody hates samus. Everybody hates sheik. SHEIK IS LAME
People wouldn't enjoy Plup's gameplay if it were less hype. Talk about a mind=blowing insight.
A big distinction I wanted to make was not only that people find his gameplay hype, but specifically why when generally everyone would agree that the neutral game he’s playing is still very defensive. I find it interesting that players who play very defensive in neutral can still be considered very hype and exciting players, and I’m sorry if the video did not communicate that well! Thanks for watching.
@@adust9996 Just messing with you. Great video. I have been playing Samus forever (like.. forever forever) and subscribe to the channel you briefly showed (there's a similar Doctor Mario channel that I sub to too). I've never seen one of your videos before, and I suspect TH-cam showed it to me because of the channel that usually get hundreds of views per video, but I'm gonna subscribe to you now.
@@compromisedssh no way u typed out ur first message and thought "heh this is a hilarious joke"
bruh fix your hair