Can Someone Be BORN in the WRONG Body? w/
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- At Flinders Station in Melbourne, Australia, Peter Boghossian presented three claims to participants: “Some people are born in the wrong body,” “If a person has gender dysphoria, they are born in the wrong body,” and “People under 18 should be allowed to change their sex.” Two men and one woman participated in the discussion. One of the men, Richard, is from @CommonGroundConversations an organization that promotes critical thinking and constructive dialogue.
The participants were challenged to define “social construct” and “gender dysphoria” and explored the influence of gender stereotypes. One man said the idea of being “born in the wrong body” is a phrase used out of necessity to express the disconnect between one’s biological sex and gender identity. Another man interpreted gender dysphoria as a condition that demands psychological treatment. The woman, a Muslim, largely perceived the conversation through a religious lens.
NOTA BENE: Near the end of the conversation, one participant presents a variety of statistics that are inaccurate, disputed, or still under research.
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Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:37 "Some people are born in the wrong body."
10:40 Claim reset
11:33 "If someone has gender dysphoria, they were born in the wrong body."
15:30 "People under 18 should be allowed to change their sex."
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@drpeterboghossian I am always amazed at the level of paitence you display, and equally I'm amazed at people's obliviousness to the contradictions of their statements 'God doesn't make mistakes' also 'People are not wrong because it's their opinion and belief'. Either God is all powerful, cruel and callous giving us butterfly and child cancer OR they are not omnipotent and can't control those things.
Also he needs your money 😅
A well deserved 150K !!! You are so underrated. This was another great video. The very end was icing on the cake. Thanks for all you do Peter.
That was a good, civil discussion. What's unfortunate about real-time conversations like this is that there usually isn't enough space to do research on people's claims. Much of this debate (and debates in general) relies on empirical claims that can't be verified in the moment. So when that one participant referenced the high regret rate of knee surgeries, the other participants don't know if that's true. And the person that referenced it couldn't even say where that statistic came from.
I'm not really sure how to get around this obstacle, but what I tend to do is to formulate my statements as conditionals ("If that statistic is true, then......").
If I were religious I'd say you were doing God's work. That's not to say that you are not. I'd just find it difficult to justify saying that from my own perspective. Well done sir, keep up the good works!
Thank you, professor, for your videos - I am grateful I found them. I am always interested in learning from people who are excellent communicators and as well-composed as you can be.
The more I hear transgender advocates talk about this, I think they're conflating "gender" with "personality." You can be stereotypically feminine as a man and stereotypically masculine as a woman, but what does that say other than your personality is your personality?
So what should be changed? Your personality or your body?
@@AndyJarman Neither.
They really seem to have missed the entire last quarter of the twentieth century when we established tomboys and sissies are absolutely okay.
I just want to add that stereotypes are inherently misogynistic. "Men are logical, women are emotional." As a very logical woman, I have rarely seen logic in men. Also, they commit most of the world's violent crime. No logic in sight.
I try to use the word personality as much as possible, especially in front of my kids who are being gender brainwashed at school. It's a word that's been phased out since the 1990s but it's incredibly useful. 8 billion humans, 2 sexes, 8 billion personalities.
Dangerous to establish a precedent where a child learns that all they need to do to get their own way is to indicate that not getting their own way might lead them to harm themselves.
Agreed. I can’t tell you how many parents say that their child threatens suicide to get what they want. Now the government and medical institutions are spewing this “do you want a trans child or a dead one” narrative that is not only untrue but the opposite of what we know should be done with suicides. Which is don’t talk about them.
To state the obvious: There is no such thing as a "wrong body", just as there is no "right body". You might be uncomfortable with your body for a multitude of reasons, but that's something entirely different.
I wonder what physical modification for someone with anorexia would be?
"would you look at a cloud and tell it its wrong?" alan watts
I’ve always felt the term “wrong body” was off. I could also do without “sexed body” and “social construct” and all these other loaded terms. Stop with all the jargon and express yourself with specifics.
@@PhonkEcho That depends on whether you want to "affirm" the anorexia or treat it. If you want to "affirm" it, you could perform liposuction to remove whatever shreds of adipose tissue the person has left. If you want to treat it, you give the person psychotherapy, because the problem is in the head, not the body.
@@gretaeberhardt541progressives (degenerates) can't be specific about anything because they think everything is "fluid"
I once was a man trapped in a woman's body and then I was born!
Mom must have been shocked to give birth to a full grown man 😂
@@anybody2501She would have had some clues 😂
Lmao
Ha, pretty sure Chuck Norris punched his way out of the womb, as he too was a man trapped in a woman's body, but he broke free!
@@slaapliedje Chuck Norris' mom was trapped inside him.
How wonderful to find such intelligent respectful debaters! Go Melbourne! Go Aussies!
What I have noticed as a Mom is most girls from 7th grade to 10th grade go through this trying to figure out their bodies and currently the trend is to call themselves trans but by the end of high school they come out of it and move onto other things. Just my experience and what I have witnessed first hand.
100% look at all the other psychological epidemics that occur. Cutting, bulimia, anorexia etc. typically occur within teenage girls. You can look at this whole trans movement and see the statistics on it where this is typically occurring within teenage girls but when you go later in life and into adulthood it flips and those that have gender dysphoria are predominantly male. Great observation! Social media also does not help with this.
These current young people should not have certain adult things push on them.The young people should be left alone to figure things out..with parents help.
Which is why the trans movement wants to transition them at the first signs of insecurity. Because they know they'll grow out of it and most likely will never transition as adults. How else will they increase their numbers and gain more political power if they don't get to them as early as possible?
It's actually really nice to watch one of these where people act like human beings. This was so chill, the idea that you're somehow committing acts of violence by doing this is beyond me.
no, it's not. it's RIDICULOUS that anyone is debating this nonsense. It's like saying it's nice to see people debate if water is wet.
I would say it’s because it was filmed in Australia. We are a chill bunch.
@@MediaBuster ... The low low bar I set was people not behaving like animals, I'm not praising their intellectual prowess.
@@Etrius10 You missed my point entirely. Which is that this conversation shouldn't take place to begin with. You are praising the quality of the conversation. I am criticizing the conversation as a whole.
@@kcc-karenschroniccorner9432🇳🇿🙏🏻😎🙌👏 uh huh! Especially those in rural QLD outback living on the largest cattle stations, extremely isolated where they have to hire home tutors & attend long distance school. Id say all most 100% of them call themselves ‘boy/girl man/woman’ & just carry on with their lives! Lucky them I say!😂
Great work, I love that you get people to just think and articulate their point as best they can. We are sorely missing conversation in this world.
Yep! I’m so excited for this Aussie series! Obviously Pete is a busy man because it seems to have taken him a long time to release these.
Interesting how he didn’t get challenged by ‘neo nazis’ (or whatever) like Kellie-jay did in….Melbourne? Can’t remember, nor had his life literally threatened like she did in NZ.
Smart ‘privileged’ man- can make similar authentic meaning like Kellie-jay, yet treated so differently!
It’s just not fair! Pete needs to have a woman beside him leading these critical thought experiments .
Plus he explores far more controversial opinions then Kellie jay! She informs police of all her peaceful demonstrations & hires personal security & still gets vilified wayyyy more!
I’m obsessed with Peter’s epistemology though, it’s clarifies so much in my mind. So not knocking him & his work or anything……but he should be experiencing the same bullying as Kellie-jay does, or Riley Gaines, Kathleen stock! If men & women were of equal merit. ❤❤❤
When a human is born and later says “I was born in the wrong body” their is something wrong with you mentally.
Some people were born into the wrong haircut. Strongly Agree.
Lol. We used to call it a Mullet, if you mean the guy in red
😂😂
I identity as Elon musks bank account
@@DA-db9bi Just the bank account? Right on.
The archetypical Melbourne man.
The idea that an individual can be "born into the wrong body" implies that there is something greater than this existence. Otherwise how could any present state be "wrong".
Exactly. This is a new age religion composed of narcissism, medical industry, technology (transhumanism), and porn sickness.
It further implies that you are not your body, which is simply not true.
@@utah_koidragon7117 Well you aren't your body. The body is just a vessel for your soul.
@@deistormmods not according to my Catholic faith, which says that I am a creature comprised of both a body and a soul- it is not as if my body is just a vehicle for my spirit.
If that's what you believe, though, do souls have a gender? If they do, can they ever be different from the vessel they inhabit? And if they don't have a gender, what does it matter what sex the vessel is?
@@utah_koidragon7117 When you die, are you still your body? Do you believe in purgatory? A place between the after life and life?
Last question at the end was brilliant. He never gave his opinion but asking where they think he is on the line gives perspective on whether the participants could perceive bias from his questions. It appears they both thought he was further away from them in opposite directions, which I think is likely a result of questioning someone seems to make most people think you don't agree with them.
Thank you
Exactly! I thought that was very sharp of him.
Peter would be a great undercover agent.🙂
If you share dna with your mother and your father, you were born in the right body
What about people who identify as cats.🤣🤡🐑
@@sdrc92126 Call animal control and have them euthanized
surrogacy is an interesting branching question, perhaps changing "in" to "from"…
Oh man what an amazing coincidence - two of my favorite channels in one! I thought this was a collab with Common Ground, but looks like it just happened randomly. You should do something together!
Thank you!
rien n'est aléatoire sous les yeux de l'algorithme 👀
Everybody so respectful. You love to see it.
The question presumes that your body is not part of 'you' to begin with.
I think I was - "born into the WRONG economic class?" I was born "working class" in 1952, but I'm almost sure I was supposed to be born into one of those wealthy idle rich elite families, you know with the silver spoon in the mouth, and the whole nine-yards. I wonder if I can I - "identify" - into upper classes? If I "identify" as a billionaire - will that make me one? I'll have to consult those woke, post-modern academics on that one I guess. : /
🐟 19. CĀTUR-VARṆA (THE FOUR SOCIAL CLASSES):
NO HUMAN OWNS HIMSELF/HERSELF:
One of the most difficult and confronting lessons one must learn in life is that a person cannot choose his own master. No man/woman is his own master/mistress, despite what most think. EVERY human being (with the possible exception of the contemporary World Teacher or an Avatar) has a master, though it seems most persons have chosen to obey the desires of their fickle minds, rather than their appointed masters.
Even an Avatāra (literally, “a descended one”), that is, a male, who is born in the highest state possible for a human being to be born, accepts a master when He incarnates on Earth. Lords Śiva (pronounced “Shiva”), Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Śrī Rāma, Buddha Siddhārtha Gautama, Shirdi Sai Baba, Lord Jesus, Bahá’u’lláh, and every other Divine Manifestation who ever descended to earth, WILLINGLY submitted to His legitimate temporal authority. N.B. Admittedly, this paragraph was composed in order to appeal to the vast majority of religionists, who adhere to a Theistic form of spirituality. However, as well-demonstrated in Chapter 07 of this Holiest of Holy Scriptures, a Supreme Deity is both a metaphysical and an ontological impossibility. See also the Glossary entries “Avatāra” and “World Teacher”, in order to clarify the notion of Divine Incarnation.
An ever-increasing proportion of persons believe, at least in practice, that they are the Lord of all lords, when they claim that they have no superior, and assert that humans are not an inherently hierarchical species. Society is built on the family unit, which is obviously hierarchically-structured (unless, of course, one considers a newborn baby to be the head of the house!). Human society is (or at least ought to be) structured similarly to that of our closest relatives, the great apes, in which there is a definite hierarchy, led by the most dominant alpha male. Even ant and bee colonies are hierarchical, although they are matriarchal societies, whereas human civilization is necessarily PATRIARCHAL. As soon as an animal reproduces, it could be confidently asserted that a hierarchy of authority, or at least power of some kind, is established.
How many persons do you know, when taken to a courthouse, would challenge the authority of the magistrate or the judge? Very few, I would posit. That is because, when confronted by a (apparently) higher authority, the typical man or woman would grudgingly accede to that authority. When a man claims that he has no superior or no master, an appropriate response is as follows: “I look forward to the day when one of your children say the same to you, Mister Hypocrite!”. The funniest thing about such arrogant fools, is that they often submit to their SUBORDINATES, what to speak of their superiors! For instance, uxorious “men” are often seen kowtowing to their womenfolk, yet when admonished or castigated by an obvious superior (such as an employer, grandfather, uncle, king, or priest) they often reprove those masters.
THE FOUR SOCIETAL CLASSES:
Society (that is, the adult males of society) is divided into FOUR classes (“varṇa”, in Sanskrit [literally, “colour”, in English]):
The Priesthood (“brāhmaṇa”, in Sanskrit), which acts as the authoritative head of society;
The Monarchy (“rājanya” or “kṣatriyaḥ”, in Sanskrit), which is the only lawful form of governance;
The Businessmen (“vaiśya”, in Sanskrit), who own agricultural and/or business assets;
and
The Working Class (“śūdra”, in Sanskrit), who serve their employers (usually business owners).
The following handful of chapters of this Holy Scripture fully describe the qualities and duties of the above four classes of (adult) MALES.
Typically, the working-class accounts for approximately 85-90 percent of society, businessmen for about 10-15 percent, with kings and priests being such an insignificant fraction of the totality of the population, that it would not be practical to quote a figure. For instance, out of one billion men, there may be only a handful of genuine priests, and of those authentic priests, hardly one who is a truly enlightened master. And for every genuine priest extant, there are probably only a couple of genuine kings (or men who could easily take the role of a king, if required).
BORDERLINE CASES:
There may be a number of men who do not fall neatly into one of the above four classes. For example, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa straddled the two higher classes, since He became the monarch of a kingdom, yet temporarily acted as the spiritual master of some of His close friends. The fact that Śrī Kṛṣṇa was almost definitely a fictional character is irrelevant here. Arguably the greatest (by which I mean the LEAST demonic) President of the United States of America, Mr. Donald. J. Trump, was primarily an entrepreneur but showed himself to be a relatively strong national leader (a quality lacked by previous Presidents, due to them being exclusively working-class men). However, there is a significant divide between a businessman and a monarch, so hopefully, one day, that country (and every nation on earth) will once again be governed by a good king (or, in the case of the U.S.A., several kings, since that country is far too large in size and population to be competently ruled by a solitary monarch).
Three of the most enlightened men in the past century (of writing this) were working-class men who acted as priests - Dr. Alan W. Watts, Mr. Roger Castillo, and Roger’s mentor, Mr. Ramesh S. Balsekar (who began his teaching career only after retiring from administering a bank). As clarified in the next chapter, it is the duty of members of the Holy Priesthood alone to disseminate religious/spiritual teachings to the masses, and not members of the working-class. Such workers may be able to assist others to understand life and realize the true self, but they are unqualified to make authoritative moral pronouncements, and must not fool the public into believing that they are spiritual masters. Indeed, when a working-class chap pretends to be a religious leader (“guru”, in Sanskrit), he is LITERALLY stealing the occupation of a priest. The vast majority of extant religious teachers are actually either members of the lower two classes, or even lower than that (in other words, women).
Cont...
CLASS STRUCTURE IS NATURAL:
It is UTTERLY imperative to make clear that a man cannot belong to one of the four classes of society unless he has the natural disposition and proclivity to do so. A personal anecdote regarding this point springs to mind: when a former maid and I were once travelling in the back seat of a taxi cab, we engaged in a conversation regarding the Holy Priesthood. I explained to her that, not just any man embodies the necessary prerequisites to become a priest such as I. I asked her: “Do you believe that our uneducated Filipino taxi driver could become a spiritual master?” and she responded in the affirmative. “Of course! If he enters a seminary and completes the course of studies - why not?” That is somewhat akin to stating, “If the despotic German National Socialist political leader, Herr Adolf Hitler, had been schooled by a great rabbi, he would have become a worshipable Deity, like Lord Jesus Christ”. Anyone who believes such a thing is grossly ignorant of how life operates.
It is manifestly IMPOSSIBLE for a one to act independently of one’s genetic code and one’s up-to-date conditioning. Herr Hitler’s genes and his conditioning forced him to become a fascistic dictator, the taxi driver’s genes/conditioning impelled him to seek laborious work, whilst my own particular genes/conditioning resulted in me joining the priesthood, and eventually becoming the current World Teacher, despite being born into a staunchly Atheistic family, in an extremely irreligious country. In the case of Lord Jesus, He was destined from all eternity to become a Divine Incarnation (“Avatāra”, in Sanskrit), likewise, according to the particular genetic code with which He was endowed by His two earthly parents, and to a lesser degree, the way in which He was nurtured and raised by His family and His society (plus every circumstance in which He found Himself during His short life, such as being unknowingly stranded at the Temple at Jerusalem as a child, and being tempted by Satan in the desert). Thus, this chapter is a description of societal organization, more than a prescription of how society ought to be structured.
QUALITIES AND WORK (GUṆA-KARMA):
The fact is, a member of the priesthood (for example) must not only display the personal qualities incumbent on that role, but MUST also work as a priest, in order to be considered one. There is no such thing as a part-time or a casual priest/guru/monk/pastor/rabbi/imam.
Likewise, if a man has all the qualities of a king, yet works as a cook or as a cleaner, for instance, he can hardly be addressed as “Your Majesty”.
So, somewhere in your nation resides at least one or two men with kingly attributes, but who are unable to exercise their divinely-sanctioned reign, due to the inordinate power of modern democracies. How could a solitary man overcome the massive force of any extant military?
The most likely place to find such a prospective monarch is in the military or in the martial arts (most probably the head of an army or the owner of a dojo). By the way, this lack of proper (kingly) leadership is arguably the main cause of the decline of human society in recent times.
The four classes of society can be compared, albeit simplistically, to parts of the human BODY - the priests being the head (since they direct the rest of society in regard to dharma [morals and ethics]), the kings being the arms (symbolizing protection of his people, since the arms are used in hand-to-hand combat), the businessmen (including landlords) being the stomach (since farm owners and business owners govern the supply of the necessities of life, as well as luxuries), and the workers being the legs (since they perform most all the laborious tasks in society).
So, again, it is imperative to emphasize that the four classes of society is a NATURAL phenomenon, no matter the size of a society. Even a small village has its shaman (spiritual guide), its chief (the wisest, dominant alpha male), its producers (of at least food, if not some luxuries), and the labourers (such as carpenters, healers, warriors, and trench-diggers). It has absolutely nothing in common with any hereditary system, such as the so-called “caste” system of India, which is an adulterated form of the original class and life-stage system (“varnāśrama”, in Sanskrit).
The categorization of class according to economic status is illogical and nonsensical, because it implies that the more material wealth a person owns, the higher his “class”, even though he may be a veritable troglodyte! By that inane classification system, Lords Buddha and Jesus were the lowest of the low, since they were poor mendicants, and not the masters of this entire planet, who they claimed (and proved themselves) to be. Whenever I hear the phrase “the middle-class”, my immediate response is: “which of the FOUR classes of society is the ‘middle’ class?”
THE FOUR LIFE-STAGES:
Apart from the four societal classes of adult males, there are four STAGES of life (“cātuḥ-āśrama”, in Sanskrit). Working-class men and business and farm owners begin life as celibate students (“brahmācharyam”, in Sanskrit), then become married until death parts them from their wives (“gṛhastham”, in Sanskrit). Kings begin as chaste students, marry at least one woman, and conclude their time on earth alone with their queen, ideally retiring with her to a secluded area such as a forest, devoting their twilight years to spiritual pursuits (“āraṇyakam” or “vānaprastham”, in Sanskrit). Priests pass-through the aforementioned three stages of life, but close-out their lives as renounced mendicants, giving-up all material possessions and attachments, except, of course, monastic robes, a staff, a water vessel and an alms-bowl (“saṃnyāsa”, in Sanskrit).
IN SUMMARY:
At the risk of sounding repetitive, it is absolutely imperative to understand that the four social classes is a completely NATURAL hierarchical system of adult males, which can never be repressed, within even those societies that have adopted communism, socialism, or even anarchical societies (if ever one has actually existed). In the case of the latter “system”, if ever an entire nation was to become anarchistic, there would invariably arise those relatively rare men who will engage in business enterprises or food production, far fewer men who will vie for rulership of the land (usually military leaders), and extremely scarce males who will endeavour to teach the people how to adhere to dharma/religion.
“The four classes of society were created by Me, divided according to a man’s inherent qualities and his type of work.
Although I created this, know that I am the imperishable non-doer.”
“Bhagavad-gītā” 4:13,
Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, as quoted by Kṛṣṇadvaipāyana (Śrīla Vyāsadeva).
“If you want to lead the people,
you must learn how to follow them.
The Master is above the people,
and no one feels oppressed.
He goes ahead of the people,
and no one feels manipulated.
The whole world is grateful to him.
Because he competes with no one,
no one can compete with him.”
“Tao Te Ching” Chapter 66,
Laozi (AKA Lao-Tzu),
Chinese Spiritual Teacher.
maybe you can get a surgical intervention so your bank account more accurately reflects your financial identity.
@@ReverendDr.Thomas Thank you for this information.
What a nice and respectful conversation, where everyone made an effort to understand the others. Beautiful!
These people seemingly have no clue that what they call the societal construct of gender is actually just personality. Gender and sex are basically the same thing. They have arbitrarily claimed they are different.
Sex is the biological and gender is the characteristics of the sex
@@JohnJohn-cu7nk Sex is biological and gender is bullshit.
Personality traits need have nothing to do with sexual identity though.
@@JohnJohn-cu7nkNo.
@@AndyJarmanNonsense. There can be tremendous individual variation within a sex. There are lady engineers and male dress designers. But on the whole masculine traits cluster with greater frequency among men and vice versa.
The guy with the sign is very intelligent. So it the woman with the hijab. Very intelligent and interesting conversation all around. One of the best yet I think. Peter is an expert at posing the right questions to get people thinking without being hostile. I hope to see more like this.
Nah, the woman is not that smart. Anyone could say that everything happens because a "God" wants it that way...
I would say, he’s very thoughtful and very good at not antagonizing, or turning the discussion into a fight. But it drives me crazy that he constantly categorizes intersex people as a third category. People with the S D’s are either male or female. There are no DSD‘s that are not a disorder of either male or female. So there are only two sexes, and that includes intersex people.
They'll never say u were born in the wrong coloered body. Why is that?
It doesn't have to make sense. Illogic confuses those who think straight
Actually, living in QLD with apparently highest skin cancer rate in the world I DO feel I was meant to not be here! I’m a redhead so very low melatonin, extremely susceptible to life threatening skin cancer. However my mum was extremely smart & covered us up HARD when outside so we never got sunburnt as a kid. But have never enjoyed the sun, so easily burnt in mostly extreme UV weather!
So yeah wish I had darker skin in a way so it wouldn’t stress me out about going for mid arvo walk without covering up lol!
I think it's incredibly rare, but because it is in the media so much, there may be a contagion effect.
Totally think that’s true.
its so rare its impossible. it's a case of this gender and sex thing right so the claim is you feel that your gender differs from your biological sex. you gender assigned to you according to the sex you are assigned at birth. so those things are I suppose in alignment? Ok. so that would mean technically that your sex at birth determines gender, and that gender can only correspond to your sex at brith. amazing. so in order to make the claim that you feel like your gender doesn't match up or alternatively that your gender does match up...well you technically would have to know what the other gender feels like. and since by its own definition gender is determined by sex at birth, then in order to claim that you feel gender dysphoria would have to actually transition first, and only then could you make a valid claim that you feel gender dysphoria
@@ChristianToth-uv1nvSex/gender is not "assigned" at birth or any other time. Sex is OBSERVED and RECORDED at birth in legal and medical documents, but it can and usually is observed and communicated to the parents when the fetus is still gestating and the woman has an ultrasound.
For some very few people, the sex observed is not the chromosomal sex. These are people with "sex development disorders", aka "intersex conditions". An XY can have female-like sex organs. But they won't work as actual female organs, because a male can't have a uterus, so he will wonder why he can't get pregnant and go to a doctor and realize he's a man who looks like a woman.
@roaroa5291 this is super rare but I heard about it.
@@ChristianToth-uv1nv you could be right. I'm far from an expert.
I think this political trend has a deeper meaning
You are your body. If you don't accept that reality you are denying reality.
But gender dysmorphia is biological; it is hormonal and in your brain. But also, you are not your body, you are what your brain tells you you are.
Life can be brutal. Don’t expect life to apologise.
I am so proud of these Australians having a great conversation. No name calling.
Peter doing the good work! I absolutely love what you do. Creating a society where people can safely think aloud in public.
Illogical. In order to know that you're in the "wrong" body then you MUST have previous experience of at least one other body in order to make a comparison. Because you might feel the same in the other bodies too. And if there are only 2 bodies (Man & woman) and you do magically have previous experience of being in a different body then why did you change from the "right" body to the "wrong" body? (You can't even change bodies anyway. You can only make superficial changes.)
oooh that’s a very useful point and a great way to look at these things… gonna use it now thanks
Compare this to the videos he did at the University of Oregon or Portland State lol. This conversation is way more civil and productive.
It was in Melbourne, Australia. We are pretty chill.
@@kcc-karenschroniccorner9432 I studied abroad in Australia (Brisbane) some 20+ years ago. What an awesome experience that was.
Good to see you going global and to see common ground convos in there!
Beautiful cooperation with commongroundconversations. You both match perfectly. I love you guys for trying to take the conversations on a rational level and try to eliminate the background noises (feelings, beliefs) and get down to the harsh truths.
Pretty cool to see these on the streets vs the college campus
Street people are less unhinged
Surprised he found such nuanced opinions in Melbourne.
Doubly surprised he found a Muslim woman who said "Yeah I accept homosexuals for who they are". I myself am Muslim and it's a very abnormal thing to hear from other Muslims
Yeah, I though it would have been more unforgiving.
Much respect for that young woman.
Absolutely love this channel !!! Keep it up !!!
Disagreeing that people can be born in the wrong body is something theists and atheists can have in common for different reasons. For Theists God makes us as we physically are for specific purposes, for Atheists we _are_ our bodies, so there’s no sense to the notion that we are or can be other than what we materially are.
But couldn’t they argue mind over body? Claiming your body is just a vessel for your brain.
As a person who dosn't believe in a creator I conquer.
My favourite saying to everything is.
It Is What It Is.👍
So no atheists believe there is a Cartesian dualism to the human condition (we consist of a mind and a body)? So a dead body is still a person?
@@michaela6073um your brain is an organ.
@@michaela6073 I think a Theists response to that would be that God makes the body (including the brain) but gives us free will which means we can do other than what God intends for us. An Atheist could say that even though the mind is a function of the brain (mind is something the brain does), it can create falsehood and delusion, so perceiving something to be true doesn't mean it is true, or that your belief about how to best understand and reconcile something is the best way.
N'awww, didn't even know that you were in Melbourne. I'm pleasantly surprised at how smoothly and respectful the conversation went. Great stuff.
This was a surprisingly productive conversation. I like it! ❤
Born in the wrong body is ludicrous. Born with a predilection for anxiety is more likely.
And this debate was happening in Victoria, one of the Aussie states taking the hardest lines on gender ideology. That's the most impressive things.
I've never heard of anyone committing Suicide within 5 years of knee surgery, Because they regretted Knee Surgery...
Yeah, he was full of it…
That comparison is simply ridiculous, like most of his other arguments...easily debunkable with a very mild effort...
He was referring to regret, not suicide.
Thank you Peter for visiting our great city of Melbourne! We need more open conversations here too.
Well, it's wonderful in my home country of AUSTRALIA - the people are all very humble, religious and respectful folk.
Oh, and incidentally, pigs can fly.🤪
@@ReverendDr.Thomasis there a better country you have in mind reverend? Perhaps they will accept you with open arms.
@@soroushadel8684, Good Girl! 👌
Incidentally, Slave, are you VEGAN? 🌱
Puberty blockers are not completely reversible they all have long term lasting effects and side effects that can complicate their life. This can include sterilisation, weaker bones, and cause more psychological issues.
But 'knee surgery' is not comparable for 4 reasons:
1. Firstly, the need for knee surgery is a MEASURABLE medical reality, not an imagined, unprovable wish. Knee damage can be measured objectively, but there is no empirical physical measurement of being in the 'wrong' body, only a subjective opinion from the patient.
2. Knee surgery is CLINICALLY REMEDIAL - in other words, there is physical damage that is being repaired, not healthy tissue that is being removed.
3. Also there is little or no evidence that anyone has committed SUICIDE because of 'knee surgery regret', unlike the proven high suicide rate post-transition.
4. And lastly - perhaps most importantly - the idea of knee surgery does not require an IDEOLOGICAL SHIFT that challenges reality - we say 'My knee is damaged' not 'I have the wrong knee'. This is perhaps the most significant difference, because I think fewer of us would object if people stopped trying to assert the ideology of being in the 'wrong' body, and just said 'I'm a man, but I want to look like a woman'.
"I was born with the wrong knees" lmao
"Knee surgery" has a higher regret percentage than double mastectomy of teenage confused, often mentally ill, girls... what?! This guy...
Yes.
Every 5ft 5in guy I ever knew believed they were a 6ft 6in world heavyweight boxing champion 🤷🏻♂️😂
No one is born muscular, you have to earn that through hard work and discipline. Going to the gym isn’t comparable to wanting top surgery
Thanks for what you do. People need to talk and reason their thoughts. Enjoy your content. The young lady there was pleasant and beautiful. Thanks again Pete.
For the love of God. You aren't "born into" a body. You ARE a body.
So dead bodies are people? It's like claiming a desktop computer IS a copy of it's operating system. What is a person with multiple personality disorder (DIDs)?
There is obviously no person in a brain dead body - or we wouldn't have the expression brain dead.
The mind can be faulty just as the body can be faulty.
So having a mind I'll at ease with the body it inhabits is obviously a faulty mind IF the body functions as a healthy body.
I think most people would disagree with that. If I go bald or if I have a hand amputated, the "I" hasn't changed even though the body has. My personality, biases, thoughts etc. would remain the same.
Just my thoughts. Pure materialists would disagree.
You're born into a body if you believe in reincarnation.
@@jackdillon5903 Agree, to a point, but people who lose their hair or a leg don't generally begin denying that their changed body is still theirs. Your perception of yourself may not change (although I would argue that losing a body part often involves a restructuring of one's identity in order to cope, both emotionally and functionally, with the loss), but you acknowledge reality. People who say "I was born in the wrong body" seem to want to dissociate from their physical being, which simply isn't possible.
@@jackdillon5903 I don't think that's actually true. Yes, you obviously maintain a sense of continuity of self even through drastic physical changes. But those physical changes definitely affect the sense of self and one's perceived identity. If you lose a hand, that is most certainly going to affect your self-perception, your personality, shape your experiences in different ways, etc etc. Even something as relatively trivial as going bald can have profound effects on how someone views themself, how confident they are, how they interact with others, and so on. If a woman has a mastectomy or hysterectomy, that can make big differences in how she perceives and values herself. Athletes often struggle with issues of self-identity when age catches up to them. Etc and so on.
While you maintain a sense of continuity throughout those physical changes, it remains the case that you *are* changing through them. You are not the same person you were ten years ago. Neither physically nor intellectually. We grow and change and get damaged and develop in various ways throughout life, and the physical and the mental/psychological are in fact very closely tied together.
It is interesting to see Peter here in my home city of Melbourne, the capital of the State of Victoria.
For those who don't know, this city is one of the most far left authoritarian in the word.
We have a State Government that is extremist in it's views and that has changed the laws to embed that extremism in our society.
It is so bad currently that I would not be surprised if Peter was charged with some sort of crime for merely conducting this sort of experiment here in Victoria.
Really? Are there laws limiting what you can say? Do you have the same problem with drag shows infiltrating schools? I am in America and it feels oppressive here. But we can still speak. Sort of...
Under 18s can sterilize themselves but I couldn’t find a doctor to do it at 37 because I might regret it 🤨
Right, 💯 and utterly insane
These respectful discussions are much more productive than the unhinged hysteria in American colleges
It's strange that such an unholy group argue for a 'wrong body' theory that surely suggests some kind of 'soul' - otherwise who or what is born 'in' that body?
"unholy"?
They are a CULT (like all other religions)...plain and simple...
Gender to me has always just been a word used to ask male or female instead of sex because sex is related to the act aswell. I honestly thought gender was just a way to ask sex with a less controversial word and now gender has become more controversial than sex! Wild lol
Peter was not happy about the train 🤣
"In the end of the day, Allah is guidance" I'm not muslim, neither culturally or religiously, but I found that statement to be very beautiful, it encapsules what I believe in.
its fascistic with a superiority undertone, ---> "at the end what you believe is wrong ,cause i am right"
It's not very beautiful when throwing gays off rooftops or beheading infidels.
@@zombiekilla7463 That's not what I read into it at all. What I understood is that whichever it is that we call god, in the end it is guiding us, not commanding us, and loves us unconditionally. She may think that her religion is the right one, but she also thinks people should make their own choices and that whatever it is we call god will guide them.
@@z.a.4801 That's not allah
we are so far gone as a society that people that even islam seems somewhat non delusional and coherent.
Wouldn’t the world 🌎 be a better place if we could all have discussions? Communication is the key to most of our issues of the world today being open-minded and having FreeSpeech
Shout out to Common Ground Convo. So surprised to see him here
There’s a perfectly good reason why “more people regret knee surgery.” They simply don’t follow up with these trans identified patients years down the road. 6 months isn’t enough time for a lot of people to start feeling regret and it’s the average amount of time spent for follow up on these patients.
In order to be born “into” the wrong body you must have first existed outside that body. This is a belief in a soul which is a Spiritual belief a/k/a religion. You do not have the right to impose your religion upon others. If you don’t believe in souls then it is impossible to be born into the wrong body. Your consciousness exists because of your body. Either way activists need to stop telling everyone what to think, feel and say.
How do you know your consciousness exists because of your body?
@@DiogenesNephew , did you ever encounter a disembodied mind?
@oliverhug3 I think the only mind I've ever encountered directly is my own.
And in my direct experience, I don't see consciousness arising because of matter. We simply don't find consciousness in the world of matter. However, we do find all of matter in consciousness.
@@DiogenesNephew , no brains, no consciouness.
@@DiogenesNephewif you don’t believe in souls where does self awareness or consciousness come from? What about AI? If a computer like chat Gpt supposedly has consciousness it could not have happened without the computer brain to facilitate it. You can’t run software without hardware.
The concept of "wrong body" is such a brutal, anti-human idea, I despise it.
Yes, you might have a frail body, you might have a birth defect, you might have an illness, you might feel uncomfortable in you body.
But at the end of the day, it's YOUR body. Learn to love it for what it is, treat it with love. If you need to do things to make yourself feel better, that's another issue, and we can deal with that in due time.
But telling someone they are born in the wrong body is simply evil.
And that works without god, but I feel like the idea of "being created in gods image" gives this idea a very strong cultural background, and I don't think that's a bad thing.
Can you be born in the right body? How do you determine that? And if you are trans can you transition from the wrong body into another wrong body?
@@ChristianToth-uv1nv Well, no. You can't be born in the right body. That's because the concept of right body or wrong body is fundamentally flawed. You're born in your body, whatever that means. With all its flaws, with all its blessings.
You might feel uncomfortable in your body, but that might be for a million different reasons. Including the fact that everyone feels uncomfortable in their body every once in a while. Taking that and immediately going "you're trans" as in "you're in the wrong body and we need to adjust your body to make you feel better" is, to me, the wrong approach. Make people feel comfortable in the body they have and improve on it within its limits, that's the far more healthy approach in my opinion.
Mentally ill people need help … the right help
No gov should not make laws that stop therapists doing their best to help
Are we awake yet🕊
Maybe woke medicine will force the rational West to medical tourism in Asia
And yet the Victorian Labour party (in power where this was held) has done just that. It is illegal for Therapists to question "gender" identity there.
To be continued….
comparing this with the US one, means Australians are more sensible people vs the Americans having toxic ideologies... Refreshing to see people can converse on such complex and controversial issues ... ❤
I have a better game idea. Debates settled by death matches in an arena.
That poor gentleman with the glasses is so blinded by his education(indoctrination) that he cannot even support his own talking points... I wish I was still that innocent.
They’re not in the wrong body. Their brain is sending the wrong signals.
Dassa Mannnn.
What is someone is born in the wrong body then meets someone else in a same tragic predicament only for the two people to realise that they each got the other’s body!?! I mean it happens quite a lot with deliveroo, Amazon etc…🤡🤪
Seen the movie too - John Travolta.
@@AndyJarman Time for a remake! I’m casting Zendaya & Adam Driver.
I haven't watched this whole video yet, but just in regard to the introduction, the problem with talking about "children (or anyone) with gender dysphoria" is that they don't actually have gender dysphoria. They are being ENCOURAGED to feel this way, especially if they are older, but if they are toddlers, they're just being dressed up by their mothers or in one case I am aware of, a man who appears to be pedophilic.
This is not an organic phenomenon. We aren't talking about people are confused and need to be talked through this and quite frankly the "therapy" industry is helping to create this.
There's more trans folk than folk with gender dysphoria which suggests it's a kink for most (autogynaphilia), or gaslighting by abusers.
Expression of self USED TO BE A personality!
Why have a personality when you can dye your hair a fun shade?
No. That would imply there is a correct body out there for you somewhere.
This is absurd.
It’s insane.
Sweet crossover with CGC!
Was that Khruangbin at the end, Peter? I didn’t recognise the song but the style...
Flinders street station! I'm in Melbourne!!! "Get thee in my behind, Satan!"
Dude come to Mildura PLEASE!!
Saying they ‘You’ were born in the wrong body is a religious statement.
That statement denotes a before life.
That statement suggests that the ‘you’ that you are existed in some other realm
waiting for your parents to lay down and create your human form so this ‘you’ can have human life.
I find that most transgender people are atheists, which is interesting because the idea of ‘being born in the wrong body’ is as religious as it gets.
I don’t think they realize this when they say that
Everyone adds "with their body" after saying something like "is someone who is experiencing serious distress/discomfort". I think it's sufficient to say that people who fall under the banner of disphoria of any sort are acutely in need of help. I do think that there is a risk of locking in a pathology if we close down the conversation just to that one issue. Starting with an outcome and working backwards is not how scientific enquiry works and like any conundrum you're best to know what the issue is before you blunder in with a solution! Fixing the way we talk about it is a decent start point in my opinion. Ps (just got to the end of the vid!!) the role of therapy is to explore, not to shut down, options. Affirmation IS closing down the therapeutic landscape by closing out other possibilities.
Yes 👏🏻
These conversations on college campuses are making me really afraid to send my kids to college. It seems like a lot of money to spend on joining a cult.
I wanted to have been born into a beautiful body of somebody rich. But I grew up and faced reality.
Hi Prter, Thank you for coming to Melbourne. We need more skilled people to open the eyes of the public to the idiocy OZ society has bought into. With that, has the definition of gender always been “a social construct” if not when did this definition introduced?
Was glad you two met up.Loved his video with the gay /feminazi march were they all went after him when he discused abortion
Another great video!
To be honest, I think it'd be really good if you did a quick 5 minute breakdown of your thoughts at the end of these videos, giving your perspective on certain curious or interesting things that were said by the participants.
I think he intentionally doesn't give his opinion
I could certainly do that.
@@drpeterboghossiancoulda, woulda, shoulda?
estne non sequitur ~ what's the difference between shall and will?
@@miroirs-jumeaux I like that he doesn't insert his opinion
You can be "Born in the wrong body" just as much as you can be "Born as the wrong person"
Lol makes no logical sense.
You have the body you have. Accept it, celebrate it-the good and the bad. Will lead to happier life existence.
Crazy that in two street epistemology episodes in Australia you find two religious people (a Christian and a Muslim). We’re generally a very secular country, but I guess a lot of people are scared to offend the trans lobby.
TBH I would! Would love to participate but just couldn’t deal with the vitriol! ❤
The guy with the sign has some great content. Haven’t seen him for a while.
We are all given challenges...it is how we grow and build resilience.
Consequences of our choices seem to be a problem for a lot of youth today...they seem to want it all and not willing to accept REALITY!
What line would Peter be on? The world will never know. What a cliff hanger!
Body dysphoria may result from abuse resulting in self hatred.
It's awesome that Peter Boghossian is in my hometown! I would love to come down and shake your hand. How long are you in town?
I think I was born 'upside-down' in my body.
Can I get surgery to put me 'the right way up'?
Who is the guy with the billboard? Where can I find him?
Where Heather and Bret went wrong is accepting gender exists. Remember gender is based in the idea that there is such a thing as an identity which is separate from the body but identical in both trans women and biological females. What is it? Is it a consciousness? Is it a syndrome? How would you test whether it exists or not? What are the fail conditions that would disprove it?
I think gender does exists but it should have the same meaning as sex. All the other stuff people refer to when they say "gender" is just personality and temperament.
I have such respect for Bret and Heather, as well as, Mr. Boghossian.
Gender is what used to be called, "sexual orientation". Notice how that phrase has disappeared completely from the conversation...
@@jswets5007not at all. Sexual orientation refers to being gay/straight/etc. Gender/sex have nothing to do with who you want to bang.
@@bbbbbbb51 Yes, it is completely about "who you want to bang". The current gender ideology is specifically about the sexual organs of an individual. That is why "gender affirming surgery" is concerned with the sexual organs of the individual. You can mix words and double talk as much as you would like. However, it will not change the fact that "gender ideology" is specifically about sexual orientation.
Why is this even a debate??
Great pannel ! Nice people, even though I would have doubts about the acruacy of these numbers the blond guy gave you.
whats up wi the distorion in the camera?were u covering something up?like a bilboard?
Doesn't this question presuppose mind-body dualism? It seems a rather strange question to me as you and your body are not different things.
Common ground guy, ive seen some of your videos. Cool seeing you here.
Commenting before watching, to say:
I'm afraid of how angry I will be if I don't hear what I want to hear. I would be thrilled to be there to answer your questions myself, and to hear what anyone else might have to say, but the idea of not being able to jump in is extremely unappealing. Who knows what they will say, or fail to say, and what I might take it all to mean.
Follow up, still haven't watched yet:
I'm not worried about my emotional reaction anymore! Now that I know I'll be hearing people speaking Australian. As weird as it is, those funny accents from everywhere else makes the discussion feel less personal to me.
Although, I think it wears off over time. I do manage to get incensed listening to UK content.
You’re in Oz??? Damn would love to see you up in Brisbane
This is way better than the college campus ones
Several studies have highlighted the association between EDC exposure and alterations in gender-related outcomes. For instance, bisphenol A (BPA), a commonly studied EDC, has been linked to changes in sexual differentiation and an increased risk of gender identity disorders
Imagine dressing yourself in overalls with a mullet in 2023 and then having the audacity to behave as though your opinions have any merit 😂