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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มิ.ย. 2023
- #spiderman #spidermanmilesmorales #marvel #marvelcinematicuniverse #marvelstudios #spidermannowayhome #spidermanfarfromhome #spidermanacrossthespiderverse2023 #spidermanintothespiderverse #spidermanhomecoming #spiderverse
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Miguel is wrong to me here but he still looks so damn cool🥴
I see what you're getting at with them forgetting their Spider-Man, but the fact that Miguel has seen firsthand what happens when you disrupt Canon events, they all clearly want to save the lives they KNOW will be lost. Yes I get it, maybe showing Miles his destiny wasn't the smart play, but he doesn't understand that, just trying to save one life, is putting an immeasurable amount of others at risk. A whole timeline will be gone because of him. If he fails, how will that weigh on him? Knowing he not only lost his father, but his whole family, friends, the people he swore to protect. With great power, there must also be great responsibility. He doesn't get to just skip that.
Just a question: since Miles is established as the original anomaly and he was never supposed to be Spider-Man, hasn’t he already faced the “with great power comes great responsibility” portion of his story? His uncle did die in his arms. And with that and the words from his dad and Peter (the leap of faith scene), became Spider-Man in that moment, no? I do believe Miles understands he can’t save everyone, but there’s a different between not be able to and not trying to.
@@kdubbss0583do you know spiderman,
Tell 1 spiderman where he only lost uncle Ben.?
He lost ben
He lost cpt spacy
And he lost gwen
A point everyone seems to miss in this Miguel vs Miles debate: it’s Gwen‘s fault it all even happened. If she did her job as told by Miguel and Jessica, to capture Spot instead of fooling around with Miles, then Spot would’ve been captured, the biggest problem resolved and Miles either suffers the desth of his father unknowingly or Jeff ends up alive because it seems spot was the reason he dies anyway
Good point. That slipped my mind
@@24Kam.Gwen wasn't there to stop the Spot. She was there to monitor him. The Spot has a date to keep with Miles' father in 2 to 3 days. (Whether Gwen knows that Spot is the one "destined" to kill Jeff is unknown. But Miguel does.)
And before you go blaming Gwen for everything, Miguel and Jess are the adults. If Gwen had never been allowed to visit Earth 1610, none of this would have happened. If Miguel had not ordered Miles to come to Nueva York, or just *not talked about canon events* and sent Miles back still ignorant, then things could have played out naturally like they should, according to his theory.
So no, it's not all Gwen's fault.
That blame lies with Miguel and Jessica.
@@dgmilloway She was still there to do her job. And she failed. Which kinda is her fault, but it was Miguel and Jessica’s fault for relying on her in the first place so everyone is to blame. But Gwen still messed up big time by not monitoring Spot properly.
Ehhh I see what you’re saying. I do. But part of me is still on Miguel’s side.
Because he is right
Yeah I don't understand why people are ok with Miles breaking the canon when it's literally going to destroy his own universe and everyone he cares about in his universe! It's so selfish
🤦♂️
@@DeadpoolCorps2023-h8nFacts
Another thing to point out was that it wasn’t the cannon event that created that hole, it was spot we see him tearing holes into the fabric of reality. Thus this technically wasn’t on miles also when Miguel used that device, wasn’t his thing a prototype? And that’s why everything went to shit in the first place?
Miguel O' Hara did nothing wrong
Besides replace himself in an alternate universe causing it to be erased. But yea I get what you’re saying
Bro destroyed a whole universe because of his selfishness 💀🙏🏽
@@theblackmoonrisingit wasn't selfishness, he didn't know the consequences of replacing the other miguel,
And when he knew he's trying to prevent that from happening again, and some how he's the bad guy for that ,
@@spunkymaniac9312 I'm not saying that he is the bad guy but saying that he did nothing wrong is going too far
@@theblackmoonrising every one did something wrong in this story , but logically miguel is the least wrong here
THANK YOU!!! Someone gets it! Is deeper than dyes or no. It’s should or shouldn’t. Good video.
I grew up on spiderman since the days of tas and I learned one thing. To truly become spiderman you have to accept responsibility for your actions. And the best way to understand that is losing someone dear to you. Take Gwen for example. While she embraced being a spider she ditched her best friend Peter Parker. She knew Peter was getting picked on but wasn't there for him when he needed her the most. In his desperation he became the lizard and Gwen was forced to stop him and tragically resulted in Peter dying. Sad as it is it was meant to happen to help Gwen understand responsibility. You can't always save everyone.
That’s true you can’t save everyone but you can’t also can’t turn your back on them and not even explore the possibility of saving them as well which I’m sure you know
@@24Kam. trust me my friend I know better than anyone how tempting it would be to save someone if you had the knowledge like they did in the movie. Back when me and my brother were in high school a friend of mine loss her brother. Guy was killed for simply wearing the shirt of a rival football team. I also suffered loss since I was a little kid. Loss family and friends to either illness or violence.
Damn man. Sorry to hear that.
@@24Kam. much appreciated. Thank you for your condolences. Believe me when I say I know how miles feels. But the others shouldn't have told him what was going to happen. Giving people info about the future is dangerous. You could become obsessed with trying to change the outcome but end up pushing people away or resulting in a worse future. They should've just let it happen and have miles make the decision on his own.
Now that part I agree would’ve been the best way to go about their plans/way of doing it
If Miles really is different from the other spider variance therefore, his story must be different, even though he’s Spider-Man, his story might play out as the Prowler.
If I’m right then by intervening, it will be Miguel who will break The Canon
That’s not a bad theory. I’ve heard something like this going around. It really might be the case!
@@24Kam. It could be that Miguel and the web warriors are being manipulated by an unknown enemy
@@24Kam.miles should know that is spider Man life they don't always find
Another way to save the world there's always be Sacrifice it's for great and good fate is something out our cantrol
Everyone need to move on and accept that
Loved the Analysis here. My mind was thinking heavy about the “Canon events” and why Spidermen just let that happen just cuz but hopefully in BTSV those spidermen open their eyes
We’ve got the same thoughts on this one. I really hope so too. Thanks for watching!
I guess no one noticed this in the movie, but in the scene where Miguel was talking to Miles, he said that if we save enough police captains and break the canon event, we can lose everything. People probably don't understand this because they think that when a canon is broken, the universe disappears.
Compare it to an earthquake.
There is no such thing as a house that will fall apart when there is a small earthquake, just like canon events, but if there are too many earthquakes, the house will collapse. Miguel says the same thing and if we look at it from this perspective, it shows that Miguel is looking from the right angle and he is right.
Bad things will always happen. putting a whole universe at risk for the sake of 1 live is kinda selfish. even if he saves his dad, the universe dies his dad will die anyways. And Miguel already experienced a universe die first hand
3:10, Hobie is not one of them, he legit helped Miles escape. Most Spider-people, except Miles and Hobie, would agree with Miguel that the sacrifice of one person would save countless others.
I don't think Miles vs Miguel Round 2 will happen because, Miguel almost killed the kid in the train, if he truly wanted he could have grab his neck with his claws still at showing, Miles would die from bleeding and his spine hurted like hell after the chase.
0:05 marvel spider man 2 🕷 ps5 2023
and a new story begins
Both of them are right and wrong
I actually see the point on both sides as a spider man you have to try and stop it but if you do stop it so many more people that you can't even try to save will die because of your one choice like peter said without losing uncle ben nearly all the spider man wouldn't be here the spider verse wouldn't be a thing so im on neither side its the question is saving the one you love worth others lives
I get what you’re saying but I feel like Miguel is right & letting Miles be right is basically having his cake & eat it too; while every other Spider-Person known has gone through severe loss, Miles gets to have the happy ending? To me that’s not far on a narrative basis especially considering Peter has yet to get that treatment.
Seeing as Miguel himself didn’t get his powers via “radioactive spider bite” speaks volumes, I believe that it’s not about “canon events” but incursions and Miguel is making it worse by sending all these different spider people to the wrong dimension.
He never had an uncle Ben or George Stacy moment. And the two spidermen he’s always around (scarlet and Jess) never got bit by a spider either.
Miguel got his DNA mixed with HIS spider from HIS dimension. Not from a different dimension spider unlike Spiderverse Miles
Ok well what if they ‘try’ to save Miles’ dad and that messes up an entire other universe and deletes it all….
With the collective brains of almost an infinite amount of Spider-Men I think they can figure SOMETHING out.
No not how it works unless the author changes the story or they can get the beyonder
@@24Kam.would you want to take that risk , if you were in that world ??
@@24Kam.Like what?? Spin webs around the entire universe to keep it intact?
Miguel clearly states that sometimes they are successful in saving a universe and othertimes they aren't. So, it clearly is just a matter of luck. So, you want to just leave the fate of the entire universe to luck?
Is Miles and Miguel going to fight again in Spider-Man beyond the spider verse?
I want them to but I doubt it will
@@24Kam. why do you doubt they will you know miles going to have to stop spot and Miguel for spot killing his dad and Miguel need to stop lying to the people miles going to have to stop and eventually
I see the movie playing out like this. Gwen and the rest of the spider people from the first movie are on the way to rescue miles while Miguel and his squad are on the way to detain Miles. Essentially, I think the next movie will be a mad dash to make it to miles first and eventually I think Miguel and miles will not see each other till somewhere towards the end and by then I think, after having talked to enough people, and having a change of heart, Miguel will be on the same side as miles. So even though Miles and Miguel were on opposing sides for the entirety of the last movie I think by the time they see one another face-to-face they will more or less be on the same side so the next time that they see each other, there will not be a need for a fight.
People are really trying to say it's understandable that he reacted so irrationally. It doesn't matter if he's a teen and if that's what it's all about. It doesn't change the fact that he was selfish for doing it.
Miles also didn't know if it was possible to save his dad without destroying the universe, so people need to stop with this "well we saw it was possible." Again, it doesn't change the fact that he was selfish as he didn't know, he decided to put the universe at risk in his mind.
Two things can be true. It’s selfish and you never know because the result of changing that cannon event doesn’t mean it certainly will end up destroying his universe. They saved the captain in the Mumbattan universe and yes it caused it to unravel a little bit but they are currently fixing the fallout of it. Who’s to say they can’t do something similar with Miles’ universe. Personally, it’s something I would definitely expect somebody to try especially after they broke the cannon in someone else’s universe and saw that there is a special unit of people assigned to fixing/mitigating these tears in the fabric of universes when cannons are broken. We’ve seen heroes takes similar risks, risking a lot just for the life of one person. See edge of time or Spider-Man risking a lot to save MJ.
What happened to the other upload? Did it get taken down lol
I was informed that only the left side audio worked for the video and TH-cam doesn’t allow me to fix something like that after the video so I decided to reupload the video with the corrected audio. It was pretty embarrassing.
@@24Kam. Ah that's fair
idk bro, yeah it's a pretty hard choice ig 😬 but like you yourself even said: the life of one vs. ENTIRE UNIVERSES. I'm all for saving Mile's dad, don't get me wrong, but until there's a 💯% solid plan that guarantees the safety of his dad's AND everyone else's lives in the universe, imma have to side with Miguel on this... sorry 🤷🏻♂️ and yeah fr, Miguel O'Hara/ Spidey 2099 really is hella cool and is SO underrated imho. he's (Miguel) even my favorite Spider-Man 🕷🕸🤟🏾😏
Months later and I still don’t know what side of the debate I’m on.
Good video, I see exactly why you believe that Miles is right but also there's actually many elements in both of the movies proving that the theory of Miguel according to which all Spider-People...or Spider-Beings...or Spider-Things (I swear to God it's gone too far, we're just going to say Spider Totems it's going to be easier) are intended for similar more or less tragic events and that preventing this or these events could destroy the Spider-Verse is wrong.
There are quite a few reasons but let's start with the most obvious one. The famous discussion between Gwen and her father which proves that Miguel's theory has a flaw, because her father, a policeman who was going to be promoted to captain, gave up everything to devote himself to his daughter's happiness, which cancels his death at the same time.
Second point the fact that not all Spider Totems have an origin-story similar to that of a classic Spiderman like Ben Reilly who concretely is a clone of Peter and therefore has never been bitten or to stay within the framework of the Peter Porker bite which is himself basically a spider bitten by a radioactive pig and even on the side of Jessica and Miguel I am unfortunately not a big reader of comics but apparently their origin-story differs a lot from that of a classic Spiderman origin-story. Miguel has never been bitten by a radioactive spider but accidentally altered his genetic code making him half-human, half-spider (I think that he is also forced to inject himself with regular doses if he wants to keep his powers but I'm not sure on this one).
So in the case of Miles, how is Uncle Aaron's death supposed to be a canon event? Let me explain myself. When Miles tries to verbally defend himself to the Spider Society in front of Miguel, Peter B tells to Miles that if it weren't for Uncle Ben (or someone else supposed to fill this role), the majority of them wouldn't be here and that Spiderman wouldn't be what he would have become. But how is this rule supposed to apply to Miles when his uncle IS NOT the one who transmitted to him the sense of responsibility.
In fact Aaron was a criminal and it is because of the Peter Parker of his universe that Miles chose to be Spiderman. However, this event is much more considered as an anomaly, as something that was not supposed to happen rather than a canon event.
Third point, I see many people defending Miguel's theory by taking as an example what happened in Mumbattan in the dimension of Parvitr since Miles was not supposed to be there and Miles was not supposed to save Captain Singh. The problem is that Miguel explains and specifies to us that the police captain's canon event is supposed to happen DURING a fight against Spiderman and an Arch-nemesis. Remember who attacked the dimension of Parvitr already?
Exactly. The Spot. Spot is the one who caused the collapse of Mumbattan leading to the potential death of the police captain but Spot does NOT come from the universe of Parvitr, this is the first time they have met so how is Spot supposed to be the Arch-nemesis of Parvitr if not only does he not come from his dimension and THAT IN ADDITION they do not share any kind of rivalry? Spot ISN't supposed to be there like Miles either, so why does Miguel only blame Miles?
And then you will surely tell me: "In any case, the universe of Parvitr is collapsing, isn't it?"
Ok but we're still not sure that it's because of Miles and rewatching a scene in particular that made me ask myself this question. The scene where Gwen comes to detect the anomaly and see what happened earlier and in this scene precisely we see Spot create a kind of mini collider in order to recreate dark matter so he can regain his powers and in this scene precisely we see Spot damage a building just because of the fact that he regained his powers.
Now if we take into account the fact that Spot is doing the same thing but bigger by using real colliders and that he is storing up more and more power as he goes, it is more than logical in my opinion that the collapse of the Parvitr universe happened BECAUSE of Spot and not because Miles "disturbed the cannon".
And last but not least, the very point of Into the Spider-Verse which openly says that anyone can wear the mask, regardless of their age, size, personality, gender, social status, nationality, ideology, whether they are a human being, a living being or not, anyone can wear the mask as long as the person or other does good around them, which makes Miles considered an anomaly is completely stupid in my opinion because basically the spider bite is just a coincidence, a stroke of chance, an accident as well for Miles than for all the other Spider Totems. Knowing that the purpose of the two movies fit perfectly.
Where the first tells us that everyone can be a Spiderman, the second shows us how to chart his path and become HIS OWN Spiderman and it is obvious narratively that these films prove that Miguel's theory cannot work. Let's get back to Miles now and show why he is right.
Even if he was apparently not supposed to be Spiderman, he is very easily the one who best embodies this spirit during the whole film. I am clearly not saying that Spiderman must not suffer very far from it he decided to do good around him and with every action there is a consequence and in his case it is often a tragedy. The problem being that in this given situation we know that it is possible to save someone from certain death (here in this case Miles' father) and choosing not to save a person because of the maintenance of the balance of the Spider-Verse (theory which was concretely dismantled towards the end of the film) is not what Spiderman does, whether it is a person close to him or not.
It's because of him that people like Peter B have been able to take back control of their lives, otherwise he would have been as miserable to see more than he already is. It's because of him that people like Gwen were able to relearn how to socialize, that honesty was the best way to maintain her bonds or even create new ones, finally allowing her to release all the weight that weighs on her, otherwise, she would probably have been even more distant and withdrawn and would have continued not to have honest relationships with the few people around her. Miles symbolizes a hope, a spark reminding that nothing is impossible, that even if things go wrong, that even if tragedy strikes, Spiderman must get back up and that it would be unworthy of his principles and everything he has been holding on to for all these years to give up before even trying. Being a Spiderman is NOT a sacrifice. It's a vocation that these different people are committed to in order to do good around them, to inspire the people around them, that's what Spiderman has always been in the first place and that's why I think Miles is completely right to do what he's doing right now.
Btw ATSV as a whole is about breaking the "Spiderman needs tragedy to grow " trope so I'm pretty sure that the canon theory will be debunked as well.
Yeah, why Miguel is same miles it never meant to be Spider-Man gonna get why are you saying that but why he tell him that if he wrong about him
Let's follow the logic of Miguel's theory.
The whole reason for a canon event is that it teaches the person how to become a better Spider-Man. Uncle Ben dies b/c Peter does not accept responsibility for stopping the mugger who eventually goes on to shoot Uncle Ben. Officer Stacy dies to teach Spider-man that sometimes no matter how hard you try, you can't save everyone. Gwen Stacy dies to show that sometimes no matter how hard you try to protect them, someone you love may pay the price for you being Spider-Man.
Now, let's tackle Miles' question to Peter. "What if you knew Uncle Ben was going to die. Would you just let that play out?"
Peter says yes he would. B/c he wouldn't have become Spider-Man otherwise.
But tell me, would he actually learn the same lesson? Because, news flash, *not stopping* the mugger was the wrong thing to do, and the consequence is his Uncle's death. This lesson is supposed to teach him that he should *always* stop the mugger.
Now, however, Peter knows for certain that the mugger is going to kill his uncle. And he *still* lets him go.
He's no longer learning the lesson the event is meant to teach him. The only lesson Peter learns is "This universe requires the death of an innocent to keep on spinning."
Peter is wrong. He would not be the same Spider-Man he is now if he made that choice.
And if the whole purpose of the Uncle Ben canon event is to teach Spider-man that he must never refuse to stop evil, then that event has failed, and the universe should collapse anyway.
This is why Miguel's canon event theory disproves itself.
Maybe Miguel is not Miguel
That’s what I’ve been saying! Like, Miguel’s logic has so many holes in it, he could be The Spot!
He literally has two experiences of cannon events being broken: His own, and potentially Indian Spider-Man’s (which it’s never made clear whether or not they prevented his cannon event from collapsing his world or not). That’s it, but plenty of evidence to the contrary. Since they established that Spider-Man: No Way Home is cannon in this world, in the film, they literally break every cannon event possible and their universe is still there. Alternate Green Goblin kills Aunt May, you’re telling me that was PREDESTINED TO HAPPEN? Wouldn’t Mayday be considered a breaking of cannon, considering the reason she’s here is because Peters bond with Miles allowed him to reconcile with MJ? And how about the Spot? THE ONLY reason Miles is Spider-Man is because him, so why wasn’t this potential threat eliminated long before? Again, Miles has been Spider-Man for over a year, and the spot never appeared on the Society’s radar until now? Hopefully the next film will allow Miguel to see how flawed his way of thinking is, as you mentioned before he’s not necessarily wrong. But the fact you wouldn’t even try to save someone is just wild to me
Miguel is lying
how so?
How?