What do you guys think of the Spider-Verse, No Way Home comparison?🕸Comment below!💥 Thanks again to Brilliant! 🧠 Get a 30-day free trial + the first 200 people will get 20% off their annual subscription ➡ brilliant.org/FilmSpeak/
The way I see it, No way Home was passing respect to the Spider-Man movies. Across the Spider-Verse was paying respect to Spider-Man as a character and concept
This. Which supports my opinion of the latter being the superior Spiderman movie. Spiderverse being a celebration of everything spiderman is a lot more touching and heart warming. Not to say that paying homage to past movies is bad, but spiderverse just feels more emotional and universal to me
I can't see that. They threw in popular characters. That's it Action is below subpar. Visuals boring. Score? Forgettable. Story... Not sure. Villains? Poorly executed besides that one scene. So underused. So poorly handled. Lost potential
@@alexanderwindh4830 the movie is a part one of two they're taking their time and in doing so Miles, Gwen and Peter are fighting two villains in there story and both of those arcs are about belonging and being accepted which ties into the end. Spiderman isn't all about action it's about the story and these characters
Another interesting point about letting Peter grow as a person - Peter *B* Parker is a pretty logical look at what happens when the character doesn't try to grow, have kids, and tries to carry on at 37 - it stops being "relatable" and starts just being _sad._ And now, come Across The Spiderverse, he's actually... _happy,_ while presumably having 30-40something issues as opposed to living the same way he did when he was in his twenties.
Just something that never gets brought up with why Spiderman is such an amazing character design. He has literally the best power set of any Superhero. Vague superstrength, agility, spider sense, sticky, and web slingers. He can literally fight an old man criminal with wings one movie, box Thanos in the next, fight drones in another, and then go dimension hopping. And none of it looks out of place. I don't think this gets enough credit. Picture how silly Daredevil would look trying to Box Thanos... Or how bad a movie would be about Thor taking on the Vulture... And yet Spiderman is just at that perfect balance of power where you can throw him in virtually any superhero story and he's still interesting. Meaning whatever kind of Superhero story you want to tell, you can do it with Spiderman. His powerset is just perfection.
I swear I was thinking the exact same thing about Spider-Man's powers while watching the movie. His power set is so unique and so amazing. Just how he can stick to and walk on any surface, sit upside down but is completely normal, the way he swings, his agility and fighting style. It is unlike any other superhero and comics and I see why DC doesn't really try to replicate him. It's clear why he always has been and always will be my favorite superhero.
This is the most accurate deduction of Spiderman's versatility I've ever seen. Like he's so versatile he works in almost any situation either as a comic relief or as a sad/ grounded character
@@johnathanparks8410 I was thinking the exact same thing too like, how am I supposed to fight a guy that can stick to walls, I feel like I could take him but then I also cant cuz of his agility and strength, unlike other characters, once I see ironman or batman as a criminal I immediately know I'm hitting the snooze button
Maybe it's because Tobey Maguire is15 years older in NWH, but I like the fact that Raimi-Peter has sorted things out already. It's like a nice little reassurance that he turned out alright in the end despite the uncertainty we left him with. As for Garfield, I still got the impression that he wasn't in a great place when we reunite with him.
It's interesting they implied Garfield's Spider-Man is still struggling. But I love that the movie offers him the redemption that he sorely needed. And he actually succeeds in that and can go back to his own world with renewed purpose and determination to do good.
No way home wasn't bad, but I agree that honestly it was more fan servicey than coherent. The connection between Norman and Tom's Peter was just really difficult to establish. And like let's put the movie in a context where we want to watch it outside of the theater, cause the first time you watch it, it's exciting, but no way home feels DESIGNED for the theater experience, cause it loses too much with rewatches.
I just rewatched it and I’m excited for how the stories will branch out for it. Tom’s story is gonna feel more real and Toby’s and Andrew’s might get a few more chapters. Plus whatever it means for dr. Strange moving on too. And with the new miles story sort of branching into it as well
It's not that hard at all, he's fascinated by the concept of a multiverse and the idea of another peter parker. The goblin ends up acting like a sort of evil mentor to him, trying to impart evil into his heart. Tom Holland being a younger version of Peter helps facilitate this, and he ends up killing aunt may because she mentors him in the opposite way, not recognizing that she was becoming an 'uncle ben' to him in her dying moments and a really important martyr to him. And fanservice aside, it's actually really enjoyable that they were able to make this green goblin have such a profound impact on Peter's story. He deeply shaped the lives of two spider-men, and connected the meaning and theme of Raimi's films to the MCU.
Totally agree I watched NWH when it came out and have never watched it in his whole since. Saw into the spiderverse back in 2018 and ive watched it a good 6 times. I saw the across the spiderverse the day it came out and i have watched it 1 time more a few days later
The connection isn't that hard. Norman wants to go home but Tom's Peter reminds him of his Peter with how smart he is and he can't help but latch onto that because it's a tiny bit of comfort plus the idea of not having that menace in his head would be great. The goblin on the other hands want to conquer this world and eventually destroy Peter cause he is a threat to his very existence with him wanting to cure him and all the rest so he does what he does best and makes Peter's life hell
Say what you will but Spider-Man: No Way Home didn’t fail. It’s a different type of medium storytelling from the animated Spider-Verse films and it succeeded amazingly! Both Spidey film series have! 🙌
@@earljohnson2613 NWH did fan service in service of the story. Tobey McGuire and Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man’s brought meaning to Tom Holland’s Spider-Man story. That NWH rooftop scene is so well done!
@@slackstarfish8133 In my opinion, both Spider-Man: NWH and the Spider-Verse films have done the Spider-Man character justice through their Multiverse stories. They’re just different type of medium storytelling films. 🤷🏻♂️
@@earljohnson2613 Bro, I’ve seen way worse writing in the MCU series than that. 🤦🏻♂️ Each to their own, though. Not everyone’s going to love every Spider-Man film (including me) and that’s okay.
For all their strengths, Marvel Studios is not driven by the need to tell interesting or inventive stories. They’re driven by the need to constantly be in a position where hype and anticipation can be easily obtained.
One of my biggest problems with No Way Home's expression of its cameos is how homogeneous they are in fight scenes. All three main Spider-Men have several films where they fight so differently, where choreography and the way they interact with their villains is so different. When all three Spider-Men are fighting in the final fight of No Way Home, however, their styles are so indistinguishable that you often just can't tell who is who. In Into the Spider-Verse, however, walk/run cycles, fighting styles, ways in which they confront their villains are so different. If they were all wearing the standard red costume, you'd still be able to tell which is which constantly.
I personally think that while NWH is a good love letter to all of the live-action Spider-Man movies, Spider-Verse 1 and 2 were great love letters to Spider-Man in general. Both NWH and Spider-Verse works imo, even though Spider-Verse is one of my personal favorite movies of all time. It’s just amazing to be a Spider-Man fan right now.
imo No Way Home was pretty mediocre as a movie in general, but it was great as a homage to all the live action spider-men and it set up MCU Peter's college era. Most people didn't watch it because it was good, but because it was an event you couldn't miss
I completely agree. No Way Home IS good, but it’s not THAT good. The Spider-Verse films, on the other hand, I admit they’re not perfect either, but they are genuinely some of the best Spider-Man films we’ve ever gotten since Spider-Man 2 back in 2004. (Y’know, since these days we can’t really express that Spider-Verse is one of the best Spider-Man movies without someone mentioning Spider-Man 2 all the time).
I loved both movies, but I think you hit on the reason why I think Into The Spiderverse is better. No Way Home was a super fun theatre experience, but its so clearly tailored for the theatre and first time viewing and those "wow look at this!" moments that its almost awkward watching it a second time, even if the initial viewing is fantastic. The awkward pauses in the scenes where theres supposed to be audience reactions are a pretty stand out example of this for me. While No Way Home was spectacular on first viewing, the second time around had greatly diminished returns and I havent picked it up since. Conversely, not only have I watched Into the Spiderverse a probably double digit amount of times, its never dropped the quality of the experience for me. No Way Home was an event first, and movie second. Into the Spiderverse was a movie that happened to be an event.
The weakness of NWH is being directed by the same hack that made the previous 2 Holland movies, but for whatever reason, it pulled together well enough in this movie save for a little akward pacing. It's flaws don't lower it below a tear tearing 11/10 for me. On the other hand, I haven't actually managed to sit through the entire first spiderverse yet. It's cute, entertaining enough, but just doesn't grip me, feels shallow in a way I don't know how to describe. It's supposedly revolutionary style feels like an urban unicorn vomited on me. In some alternate universe there's a cool version of what they were going for but we're not it. Second one looks a bit better, yet still I don't itch to watch.
@@waldoman7 i get where youre coming from! Spiderverse appeals to me so much partially bc im a huge sucker for visual symbolism in movies and ITSV and ATSV are chock-full of it! But they are paced very quickly and if the visuals dont hit your sweet spot I can totally understand balking on it. I also think that while Spiderverse as a film series is a send up of the concept of Spiderman, NWH does a surprisingly excellent job at not just being a send-up but a *conclusion* to all of the live action Spiderman movies until that point, so theres a lot to sink your teeth into textually. Really, I think the direction of it is the only stickler for me. Where the awkward pacing at times and the "made-for-crowds" aspect (which isn't a flaw per se! just a different approach) made my rewatches harder to get through. I think a lot of stuff like this is down to personal preference, really! I think its really fun to do compare and contrast on what ppl (including myself) like and dont like about these films
Thing is, I loved No Way Home, but even as a fan of it, I can acknowledge that my enjoyment of it came from the heap of mindless fan service it dumped on us. The fan service in Spider-Verse is also there, don’t get me wrong, but it’s mainly minor cameos and my favorite parts came from the actual story itself. Unlike NWH, ATSV has originality. That’s where it failed - and even when it “failed”, it was still a damn good movie. They both work!
no its not mindless at all like he said there is a virtual reason why all those spiderpeople from different dimensions are there because of the collider and the Spider society time events and then NWH they 2 convenient spidermans just come outta no where from Dr. strange portals just so the heros can win because obviously Toms weak ass cant beat 5 villains alone. THATS MINDLESS just grab 2 spidermen literally walking in alleyways lmfao
Both Spider-Verse AND No Way Home utilize the mediums they’re in to accomplish great things. Bringing in characters from Tom, Tobey & Andrew’s universes could only have full impact in live action, whereas Spider-Verse can only be as dazzling as it is because it takes advantage of being animated. Both work in differing ways. Edit: Of course Spider-Verse is MILES better than NWH, and as a film fan I have a lot of problems with the MCU film. However I think it does a lot of things well too, like keeping the focus on Tom’s Peter and giving the others just a little taste of what has happened to them afterward. I still think it’s a great time despite it’s imperfections. I personally love and enjoy both, even if SV does it better and more brilliantly!
Except the story and plot for No way home was very drab and uninspiring. It was blatent fan service without a good story and development to go along with it. Spider-verse has the fanservec, great animation, and most importantly, the best spider-man story to date in the movies. No Way Home does not compare.
@@SlyMagma it’s almost like one is a pretty good blockbuster and one got an Oscar. Don’t disagree, but it’s the pizza thing right? It’s pretty good most the time.
@@SlyMagma Oh I agree that Spider-Verse is MILES better (couldn’t help myself), but it’s amazing No Way Home accomplishes what it does given it’s medium
No Way Home is one of the those movies where you ignore all the flaws while watching it because you're lost in the hype. But when you think about it later, you realize just how many things don't make sense.
This really opened my eyes to the criticisms the MCU trilogy has gotten, I love Tom’s portrayal of Spider-man but there are definitely some elements we are missing from his trilogy that the other films do so well.
The Miles Morales story arc fully leans into the absolute insanity of the endless universes, and that helps it tell the story of the spiderverse better, since the chaos of the infinity is incomprehensible and this is exactly how Into and Across the spiderverse feel.
I was never as impressed with No Way Home as other people were, and I remember walking out of that theater in 2021 going “Spider-Verse did it better”. This video hits the nail on the head as to why I have that opinion.
@@spencerboyce6227 Dont be wishy washy. NWH was a bag of wasted potential. Different movie or not, NWH disappointed me. Dialogue was garbage and when it became clear they were going for nostalgia bait my experience of the rest of the movie took a nose dive
@@strikeatnyte You made that assumption because I dont look at ITSV as fondly as you kiss asses do? 😂 Would rather watch TDK Trilogy, SM1 & 2, Logan, Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Civil War and even NWH over ITSV
I felt like I was taking crazy pills when No Way Home released to overwhelming praise, people calling it the best MCU and the best Spider-Man movies. This video beautifully puts into words why I just couldn't even comprehend that take. Why No Way Home was such a let down for me.
Context helps. Between making the multiverse plot work, bringing back characters from 2 failed spider-man trilogies and consciously repeating the same mistake that killed those previous film series (villain overload), NWH could have stumbled and failed miserably. It's a miracle that it turned out as well as it did. Offering closure to loose threads, and satisfying those fans who complained about Iron Man Jr and resetting Peter to a street level hero after going to space. Similar to Endgame which isn't mind blowing in isolation, but taken in the context that it bears the weight of concluded over a decade of films in a way that satisfied everyone. Even an OK result would have been impressive, yet they managed to hit it out of the park.
@@hilosky idk I hated how all his villains were just made into deferred Iron Man villains and having him fight a bunch of villains from better Spider-Man movies didn’t really change that
Some very valid points. NWH is a great show to see in a Movie Theater, but drags along when watched solo. Spiderverse and Across the Spiderverse ask for a closer second look, and that is the mark of a really good movie.
*Spoilers* Just a thought. Miles Canon event was his uncle. Gwen was Peter. So Miguel has made a mistake. Spiderman India doesn't have one that's why his world was about to get erased and neither does Miguel, his world didn't get erased but the world of the Miguel he tried to replace.
I agree.. but it was supposed to be world 42 miles event.. not world 1601.. which us why in istv you saw 1601 miles BACKGROUND turn from green abd purple (prowler) to Blue and red (spider-man).. Though that does ask a question.. If a Canon event happens in a different but similar universe, is it still a Canon event or a Canon departure
@@theoamos24 By every technicality, perhaps the universe registered that a Miles Morales got bitten, and knowing it was E-42's spider who got bitten, perhaps the canon event got registered so that dimension is okay (because it got registered with a Miles Morales regardless), so what E-1610 Miles Morales was supposed to go through got swapped with E-42's Miles Prowler Morales instead. But like you said that would beg the question of canon departure.
@PYR0K1N3T1C thank you for your input. I was thinking along the same thought. A miles became spider-man, and a miles became Prowler, two events that was suppose happened. This kept those two universes in tact, i think the main thing is that since 42 miles was supposed to be Spidey, is that 42 Peter Parker was meant to die? or he never became Spiderman?.., and we know what happened to 1610 Pete. So my new question. Is if it was a departure or switch which event caused it..miles becoming Spider-man or Peter for whatever reason not being an active spider-man.
It expanded on no way home. Events from no way home directly impact the spider society in across the spiderverse. Donald glover as prowler confirms this.
"We've already see them go through their sht off screen Why not just pluck the heroes at their lowest moment." Because then we just get a live action version of ITSV. In ITSV Peter Parker NEEDED to be the one falling apart. Because he needed to learn from Miles how to BE Peter Parker, so he could be a better Spider-Man. In NWH the Spiders NEEDED to be the ones who had their sht together to help Peter so he could remember how to be Spider-Man, as he was the one falling apart. Miles wasn't falling apart, he just needed guidance on how to be Spider-Man. But being Spider-Man is only HALF of who these heroes are-Miles isn't JUST Spider-Man he is also Miles. He has his shoe laces untied, even in the ICONIC falling/rising shot. He loves parkour, he loves tagging and graffiti; his own suit is made via his outlet of self expression which is art. One thing I noticed in Across the Spider-Verse and even in Into the Spider-Verse, everyone has expectations of him. Some aren't great. Some think he's just a kid who has NO idea what he's DOING. But if Miles has proven anything, it's that anyone can wear the mask. He doesn't need guidance anymore-he has to learn to work things out on his own. No Way Home and Into the Spider-Verse are two fundamentally different stories. Spider-Verse is about remembering who you are, about self discovery, about finding light even in moments of darkness, about learning that things are better when you aren't alone. No Way Home meanwhile was about second chances, about sacrifice and about legacy. The reason why the Spiders are handled the way they are in NWH isn't just for the sake of nostalgia. Peter Parker/Spider-Man is a human being that innately has a desire to help people. "When you can do the things I can but don't, and then the bad things happen....they happen because of you." That's why Tobey and Andrew have their act together as much as they can (cause let's be real Andrew is SUFFERING). Because Tom needed them. And so they stepped up. Because that's what Spider-Man does.
the thing i hated the most about NWH is that... we had already had the responsibility speech in Civil War, but it was unique with its phrasing; "when you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you" sounds an awful lot like "with great power, comes great responsibility" without saying it, don't you think?
No Way Home relies completely on the heavy lifting done not only by the previous Spider-Man movies, but some of the MCU as well. It's a nostalgia movie; take the nostalgia out of the equation (replace, for example, the other Spider-Men and villains with new actors with no previous attachment) and you get a story that's only so so. Miles, on the otheer hand, earns his place in the Spiderverse, and the movie works because the story is solid. In fact, it's the best Spider-Man movie origin we have ever gotten. One last thing: I absolutely HATE how the MCU just loves an unmasked Spider-Man, to the point that not only is Tom Holland spending half the movie actually showing his face, but even the other Spider-Men immediately take their masks off at the first sign of strangers. Really?
I'll grant you that NWH relies on nostalgia, but I'm not sure how that's a fair criticism since a part of this movie is literally continuing the story of the raimi trilogy and the webb duology. As for your nitpick about Spider-Man having his mask off in front of two strangers, the only reason Andrew even met MJ and Ned was because they were calling his name. They already knew who he was. What would be the point in hiding it? And tobey didn't even show up in costume.
@@MrAjking808I agree lol. I just turned 27 a few months ago so I also have a different outlook on the film than most people calling it and the 1st a masterpiece. The 1st was a good film but killing off Peter just at the start through plot was was buzzkill for me.
Lol I can’t take idiots like this seriously. Miles morales has always road the cocktails of Peter Parker. He’s that annoying kid in the classroom saying oh look at me I’m cool too pay attention to me. Comic book sales speak for themselves and hardly anyone buys let alone reads them. He had one fluke movie that did well because of animation and a bunch of other factors. Heck even in his own comics he constantly has to be changed because nobody cares about him enough to be interested in purchasing them. One minute he’s wolverine the next minute he’s Thor, and so fourth and so forth. Lol a complete joke of a Mary sue character that can’t have any originality and so he has just become a leach sucking off of better written/original superhero characters.
i think it's really telling that the entire appeal of nwh is the cameos and the starpower brought to the movie by the cast. conversely, itsv (and atsv even moreso) are chock full of amazing cameos and huge superstars and despite all that the most compelling part is miles. its such a testament to the character writing, as well as shameik moore's performance
well the difference is that it's miles first movie. we need to establish him first and foremost. holland had been spiderman in a half dozen movies before NWH. he is a focus but, we already know what he's about.
The funny thing is people claim they don't follow the hype train but that doesn't mean they don't have biases. You came in expecting 100% fan service with no plot, so regardless of whether or not you actually watched the movie, you walked out the same way.
Spider-Man Into the SpiderVerse was amazing, one of the best animated movies I have ever seen, Across the SpiderVerse was even more incredible, the animation art style is top notch,story, music, Oscar Issac stole the show as Spider-Man 2099/ Miguel O'Hara 👏👏🕷🕸
My biggest problem with no way home is how much it relies on the other movies to do the heavy lifting. If you haven't seen spiderman 1 and 2 then goblin and doctor octopus have no real weight as villains. While everyone else freaks out about them showing up you'll be confused as to who they are. They have character arcs in the movie but they function as extensions of the arcs from the reimi movies. Same with amazing spiderman. Part of the reason I feel this way is because I didn't see amazing spiderman 2. So the moment where andrew saves mj meant nothing to me. I knew what it was from memes, but it didn't leave that impression on me like it did on other people. Point is no way home had the potential to be a good stand alone movie, but as it is now you need to watch the other spiderman movies to enjoy it. It's definitely an issue phase 4 and 5 of the MCU have run into.
Although I do like ( kinda) no way home, I thought it wasn't as well as far out as it could have been, sandman and lizard barely got to do anything in the movie, and I'm huge fan of those characters in the comics Aunt May's death was sad, but it felt like they were kind of trying to wrap up the hole left by no Uncle Ben they kinda of rushed through the final battle and some emotional moments that could have been done better if they built on it from the beginning Now all that said, I am glad we did get to see all three Spider-Man on screen, The chemistry was magical and played into the rest of the movie but I'd be based to say there wasn't fan service in some ways
They couldn’t have Tobey and Andrew plucked from the same spot they left off because Tobey has quite obviously become much older. Would’ve been impossible to portray him at that age.
Am I the only one still wondering how Electro was even brought into the MCU when the spell was supposed to only bring people who knew Peter’s identity?
I believe live action can also be very animated, for example I think Edgar wright would be perfect to direct a Spider-Man movie in live action, if Scott pilgrim and baby driver shown me anything is that he could definitely bring a larger than life comic book film to his live action films
By way of title, I think the video title lead-in is wrong from the get-go. Both no way home & the spider-verse are a top notch achievement and I disagree completely with your takes on NWH. I agree Homecoming and the sequel are lacking in different ways that were mentioned... never was much of a fan of Homecoming. But No Way Home was on the money and it all the right notes for the MCU. Both make brilliant usage of the multiverse with its potential proving to be virtually limitless.
Spiderman no way home is Tom's spiderman 3 not a full blown multiversal movie. Its a story where his Spiderman officially becomes Spiderman its the end to an origin story. Into the Spiderverse was also an origin story but was planned to be a multiversal story from the start. It starts with the death of a Spiderman and an Introduction to a older more wore down one who get ropes into training this kid
People are so mad at this... He didn't said NoWayHome sucks. He just said Spiderverse handled the multiverse better, and NWH had a significant amount of wasted potential with it. The Multiverse in NHW is just fan service, of course. The more you rewatch the movie the lesser cool it gets, but it still makes it work on its own way. WHAT the video is saying is that, No Way Home fumbled the bag into the opportunity of growing the Tobey's and Garfield's Spideys, as well as their villains.
I think the word failed is a loaded term. But for me, the main issue is the people saying that the only reason people like no way home is nostalgia, which is just so mindlessly hateful towards people who like it for no reasom
We need to stop this No Way Home backlash tbh, I know it was really hyped up but damn. We don’t need to give it an equal amount of backlash to balance out or whatever it is we’re trying to do…. One could argue it’s still a top tier live-action SM movie. I think Spider-Verse is the best SM movie overall, but it seems to be popular to put NWH down. Especially in the YT editorial community. And it’s getting overplayed tbh.
@KingSupreme I agree, there is a kind of pretentiousness and pseudo-intellectualism that goes along with NWH backlash. It's fine if someone prefers Spiderverse over NWH, but the problem is that a lot of criticism of NWH doesn't seem to be coming from a place of good faith.
@@realityshifter3399 yeah that’s how I feel. I mean if you have problems with it, that’s fine. But there seems to be a movement to drag it through the dirt. I suspect that if it wasn’t so hyped up it wouldn’t be getting this treatment. I feel like it’s only getting so much backlash bc it’s so popular and ppl really like to be contrarian.
@@king_supreme1102 I think it has to do with fact that NWH is associated with MCU and thus associated with Disney which they don't like. There have been this growing movement to write off the MCU as "NOT cinema" and the backlash against NWH is an extension of that argument.
@@realityshifter3399 I can see that. I mean I’ve been pretty disappointed with the MCU as of late. But I think NWH was it’s best movie in the last few years. I can take some issues with its writing seriously, but all in all I think there’s a LOT of good that people overlook. Again I think you could make the argument that it’s a top tier live action SM movie. Plot holes? Ok I can understand that. But to ignore it good pacing (despite the fact that it has a lot going on), it’s relatable and likable characters, it’s arc for Peter, and the fact that these legacy characters have a reason for being there seems a bit disingenuous. I mean Toby and Andrew both have reason for being there. They’re not just fan service cameos. It really brings to attention good fan service Vs. Bad. It’s good when it does have a purpose for being there. And Toby and Andrew do. Granted, not all of the villains are super fleshed out. But compared to how Spider-Man 3 and TASM 2 handled multiple villains, it does a pretty solid job. And I liked how they kinda reimagined Peter’s origin. They reframe it to make this his origin trilogy. While usual, I think they did a nice job of it. And knowing he has another trilogy coming (where he’s a fully formed adult SM) I think it works.
For me, my entire perspective on the spider-man movie's have changed with spiderverse and no way home. In the sense that because each variant of spider-man is so different, that I kind of don't want them to be the "same" anymore and i'm quite glad that each one is unique
I don’t think it’s fair to say NWH failed at the whole multiverse thing. Every spidey and most villains in the movie had satisfying arcs/endings that contributed to the forwarding of the story. If you want to say a multiverse movie failed, Doctor strange MoM might be a better fit.
@@FilmSpeak Didn't Tobey and Tom had? Not even the Dock Ock? almost all the characters were complemented with the message of the second chance that the film left, Tobey and Andrew had their redemption saving Norman and MJ respectively at the same time closing the arc of Uncle Ben, and Tom (as much as you criticize him) has probably the most complete development of a cinematic Spider-Man, learning the value of responsibility in a beautiful way, and I don't understand how you call the movie "ugly to watch" when it has so many of the most beautiful shots or sequences of any movie of the character (Peter looking at Jameson in the rain or the final swing)
The legitimately insane urge that humans have to only be satisfied with something if they can compare it to something else or tear something else down in order to build another thing up. It's exhausting. WHA THE HELL IS THE POINT IS THIS VIDEO DAMN.
I think NWH was the final lesson for Tom Hollands spiderman. It always felt like he was a little clumsy as Spider-Man and I think the lesson in NWH for him to realise the real seriousness of what he does. And the other spidermen cameos helped him process that trauma properly, and not to lose sight of what he set out to do when he put on the suit. Spiderverse was about miles learning to be Spider-Man in his own way. MCU was about Spider-Man becoming a fully realised hero.
THANK YOU! I have been saying these things AND more. That No Way Home is just not that great of a spiderman movie, let alone A Movie I don't mean to hate but after a few watches like...3 or so, none of the jokes, characters, etc really stand out. Every time I watch no way home I literally feel like ITSV just did it better
I think the best comparison of style for the multiverse is comparing something like No Way Home or Multiverse of Madness to Everything Everywhere All At Once. Both EEAAO and ITSV share a distinctly unique use of the multiverse that is intrinsic to the themes and story both movies try to tell. Because of this, the need for a visual style that is bombastic and groundbreaking is imperative for the movie itself to hold the audience and match the craziness of the very concept of a multiverse. I do have to say, NWH was a pretty good movie! It was not my personal favorite, but I still enjoyed myself while watching. Personally, the other Peter's still worked on screen just because they come in late enough where the limited exploration of them plus the intense focus on Holland Peter made it work. I think the fact that I have never seen the Maguire Spiderman movies and only the first of the Garfield movies just generally made my viewing of them movie enjoyable, but certainly not particularly hyped. It was not a bad premise, it was handled pretty well, and for an MCU movie, it was pretty solid. It's a stark contrast to my genuine enjoyment of ITSV, where I have watched it a number of times again after I first saw it back in 2018. ITSV has become one of my all time favorites, while NWH was an enjoyable experience, but not a movie that I will probably ever return to.
it's almost like one movie was bold and new while the other had a spider-man established by a half dozen other movies by this point. not only are they different mediums but, both characters are in entirely different stages of development.
If you think about it, Peter was only spider-man for 6 months before Tony showed up. Which probably means he only faced petty thieves and what not, which never really gave him a Chance to grow and change that’s why it’s progressed over his time in the MCU to where he eventually realizes his mistake in NWH and in the end he makes the sacrifice to let everyone forget him. Reinforcing his knowledge of great power comes great responsibility, but it also takes the other two from different multiverses to help him come to that and mentor him just like Miles had. Heck Toby SM stopped Tom SM from making a huge mistake-killing goblin. I don’t think NWH failed because we already knew the multiverse existed and this movie completely demonstrated that. And it’s not like it was random, they way they brought it up was very well executed. I love both films and think both are perfect examples of what it means to be spider-man
actually miles was only a spider man for only a week when he met another spider man in spiderverse 1 and had to deal with multiverse right after that. while NWH was only doing nothing but crying feeling guilty and stuff. that is such a disappointment
love how atsv kind of turned this whole argument on its head lol. also I’m sorry but the mcu spiderman trilogy was destined to fail the moment it made its version of uncle ben be fucking billionaire tony stark. it absolutely undermines the idea of the character
Failed is strong language, NWH was a great film, The Spider-Verse movies were originally done, whereas NWH was essentially a reboot. Not fair to compare.
It’s all opinion though cause no way home didn’t fail. Audiences loved it (like 90 something %). It made 1.9 billion (with a big old B). Most important thing to me, I actually liked it. I liked both of em. They’re both great Spider-man movies…
I personally loved both of these movies and I’ve seen both no way home and across the spider verse 3 times in theaters I just had so much fun watching these movies and I feel like Spider-Man is in a good place and hopefully the next movies will keep up this entertaining energy.
13:47 one of the criticisms you give on NWH is that some of its characters (mainly in regards to villains) don’t need to be there because they don’t add anything to the story, but if you really think about it, how were most of the villains in Into the Spider-Verse impactful to the story in any way? Don’t get me wrong, ITSV and ATSV are probably both in my top five favorite animated movies, but let’s be real here and admit that the only villains that actually DO anything significant as characters in the story are Kingpin and Prowler. Tombstone, Scorpion, Green Goblin (who is literally only there for one fight scene), hell even Doc Oc do absolutely nothing for the story and even Doc Oc merely serves as a plot device to get the science behind the Spider-Verse ball rolling just so the movie can happen. I love both movies, and I feel like this is just an unfair criticism of one and not the other. Just my opinion though.
Spider-Verse was still trying to prove itself, so it gets a pass with being a bit underwhelming in that regard, as opposed to NWH which wasted characters who have more background being that they had whole movies to establish themselves, but Sandman is given motivation that should meant he has no stake but his own, yet somehow still manages to have him being more of a hindrance to the heroes in spite of the fact the villain's plan would be entirely detrimental to him getting back home and Lizard...well, even the film can barely justify why he was there beyond fanservice, which shows how much they think about him. I'd say it's worse to be underwhelming with established potential than it is to waste newcomers.
I see where you’re coming from. However, I would argue that’s in no way the same thing. Tombstone, Scorpion, and Goblin are all henchman that don’t ask anything of the audience. Some people only think it’s a problem because they just happen to be big names in the comics. Ock was used as the way to explain the main mechanics of the plot and fit that role as well as providing some struggle for the heroes. The villains in No Way Home are all given some motivation beyond just a henchman and made a bigger deal, yet only Goblin, Ock, and Electro (barely) have anything worthwhile to do in the story. Even Ock kind of drops off once his problem gets dealt with. Sandman is even established to not really vibe with the villains and just wants to go home, yet is still seen fighting with them for no real reason. It’s just a gimmick to get cool stuff to happen. Fun gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless.
I feel like something people don't seem to understand about ITSV is that miles's universe isn't supposed to be the spiderman universe we know and love. It's different, so it makes sense change up some of the roles of it's villains. For example, we expect green goblin to be Spiderman's nemesis, but in ITSV, it seems pretty clear that Spiderman(earth 1610)'s nemesis is actually Kingpin. In the film, Kingpin demonstrates a great amount of not only physical power, but also political and financial power, considering that he is able to build the collider and why most of the movie's villains work for him. While it would've been nice to see some of these "henchmen" versions of Spiderman's classic enemies get more character development, the narrative simply didn't need it, as it would've just added unnecessary baggage and detract away from Kingpin. Also, keep in mind that it doesn't really make sense for the film to delve into those characters simply because the perspective we are given in the film is that of miles, who is thrown into an established conflict, kingpin's super collider. The scene where Spiderman fights kingpin's henchmen and tries to stop the collider is actually a great example of this, as it shows how miles is not really apart of the conflict And therefore does not know the motives or backstory behind some of the characters. In fact, in the majority of the movie, we see most scenes played out from miles perspective, so we only really know as much as miles does, although this changes in ATSV. Although I will say that spider noir, spider pig, peni, and even spider Gwen to an extent, were underutilized as characters, with most of them just showing up just for the sake of it. But, this is simply my take on this, although I might be bit biased since this is one of my favorite movies of all time, but we're all biased to an extent, as we're only human after all. Cheers
I think we can celebrate both for what they are, and how they contributed to the overall Spider-Man lore, without using one to retroactively criticize the other. One seem to be a celebration of all Spider-Man movies before, the other seem to be a new version telling the story going forward. Both were wildly successful, and I think both worked really well for what they were trying to do.
they're honestly just on 2 entirely different levels in pretty much every aspect without no way home's fanservice, it is just a mediocre-decent movie (and i use those terms loosely). without spiderverse's fanservice, it is still just as fantastic.
Spider-Verse just makes so much sense. I have seen the film like 8 times and it never got old. I only watched No Way Home twice in theaters but on the second viewing, you really start to notice how everyone is forced to act like a dumbass in order for the plot to work
@@LineOfThy no it doesn't but it makes Sarah's point meaningless because nobody is hating on NWH for being fun. It's such a mixed bag. Into the Spider-Verse is fun but *worked* at the same time. NWH isn't worked at all.
Making Spider-Man way home was a feat of moving mountains people should really appreciate that it exists and is as good as it is because it could've been a huge disaster like the rise of skywalker
@@davidcatlett4052 The Lego miniature of Emperor Palpatine was shown again in No Way Home from Homecoming as a reminder/representation of Peter and Ned’s friendship. There was no original plan to bring Palpatine back for The Rise of Skywalker and was only brought in to sell tickets. 🤦🏻♂️
@@brucecrawford_17 Oh yeah. Thanks for that reminder. I had forgotten. The scene where Peter glances at the cut on Michelle's head and decides then to stay silent is burned into my memory.
The shit ass plot The no sense making spell of dr strange Changing previously established plot for convince No way home was only good for nostalgia the whole movie was a mess and made no sense
Something that keeps me up at night is the fact that theres probably a universe out there where willlem defoe is actually a serial killer pshycopath like the green goblin.
Spidey is the one character marvel has put the most passion in since the infinity gauntlet saga ended and that if nothing else is worthy of respect for all the films❤
I disagree about no way home. The reason he didn't touch their arcs is because he respected these legacy characters. We've seen it so many times where legacy characters get snatched up and ruined. These are two completely different films with different reasons for existing. It's not fair to compare the two .
Perfectly sums up my feelings about nwh. Also, I hated the cgi of nwh. Not to mention about multiple plot holes throughout the whole movie. For me personally, Spider-man ITSV, Spider-man ATSV & Spider-man 2 these three are the best movies overall.
love this channel man! ever since my wife died in a car crash, these videos have brought me immense pleasure. you have become my comfort channel. my favorite movie of the year so far is Ant Man and the wasp quantumania! so underrated!
Why tf is no way home failing all of a sudden? It's a great movie that entertained a whole lot of fans. I'd consider that working both as a superhero and spiderman film.
I have to disagree. No Way Home has an ending and not just build up where as Across the Spider-verse has so much build up and when it gets good it just ends no ending and is incomplete. Across the Spider-Verse is just half a film. I can't get into spoilers but when you see the film you'll understand. If you want to end your film on a cliffhanger you need to do it right like Empire Strikes Back, Fellowship of the Ring or Infinity War.
"Taking a concept that is a little out there but still grounded in the problems of day-to-day life and throwing it into the full-blown reality of Science Fiction. That science fiction will then amplify those problems" Never have I ever heard a more succinct explanation of fiction narrative. Absolutely stellar.
Failed is such a weird word. Because in no way did "No way home" fail in any sense of the word, except maybe for film critics, or people who view it as an individual, standalone film. And honestly, if you watched it as an individual film, without knowing the previous films exist or watched them, you kinda deserve to be disappointed. Marvel/Disney and the MCU has made it abundantly clear, especially with the last Ant man movie, that the TV and movies are intertwined, and there are points that won't work as well if you don't know what happened in the previous show/movie. This analysis overall just feels, poor. Like, of course you can do more expression and show uniqueness in an animated movie. Literally everything that shows up is by choice, so you HAVE to think through each pixel that shows up on the screen. It sort of feels like you're punishing the median of movie choice, rather than what relevant choices were made to make a good movie or limitations we're unaware of.
I'm gonna address this in the most civil way possible since I do like both Into the Spider-Verse and No Way Home. FilmSpeak, I think you're wrong. No Way Home didn't fail. It's a different style of a multiversal story that, frankly, I think is executed better than Into the Spider-Verse. No Way Home actually takes advantage of the multiverse and uses it to bring Spider-Man's inconic villains into the forefront. Aside from Lizard and Sandman, who were pretty underutilised, Electro, Doc Ock and Green Goblin play important roles in the story and aren't just fodder for Spider-Man. Not only that, but the end goal for them isn't to defeat them, but to HELP them and REDEEM them. Peter doesn't want their blood on his hands and he doesn't want to kill them, even though they've all done terrible things. Having the Green Goblin as the final villain for the MCU Spider-Man works because it brings his entire film history full circle and pushes him to his limits. Speaking of which, the Spider-Men of the previous movies also play large roles in the story and aren't there to just be glorified cameos, unlike Peni Parker, Spider-Man Noir and Spider-Ham. They serve as his mentors and big brother figures, evolving him into the true hero he can be. Now, Into the Spider-Verse is a great Spider-Man movie, it is. However, it doesn't use the multiverse to its full potential, albiet it was a small scale story that leads into a bigger scale later on. While Prowler and Doc-Ock were good villains, Kingpin as the main villain was the wrong decision to make. Here you have a story about alternate versions of Spider-Man coming in to stop a common threat and the main antagonist... is a mob boss. Not only that, but despite being heavily advertised in the trailers, Peni, Noir and Ham barely do anything in the movie. They're just... there. Gwen and Peter B have more of an impact to the story and to Miles' development than those 3 do. FilmSpeak, you are entitled to your opinion. But I'm entitled to disagree with it and I'm sorry to say this, but you saying No Way Home failed is completely disengenuous. No Way Home didn't fail, it's just a different style of storytelling.
*Nahh. Y’all with the “it’s a different style of storytelling” is dis genuine. Don’t mean to be rude but no shit.. that’s goes without sayin n im noticing plenty of y’all don’t have many flaws with nwh.. could that be because y’all would’ve loved it regardless 🫢 cause it’s 1 thing to know some is shit but can still find enjoyment in it like for me it’s transformers.. the 1st 3 to be specific but Ik they’re cheeks. Lots of y’all defending it to a T which only further proves y’all are semi blinded by familiar faces..*
@@sloppnbiscuiitzWith what you said, you can make the same argument with Into the Spider-Verse. I'm not saying that No Way Home is a perfect, flawless movie. However, FilmSpeak saying that "Spider-Verse works, No Way Home" doesn't is entirely wrong. They both work, they just do things differently.
i honestly never really liked no way home, the scenes with andrew and tobey were wholesome but that was about it. i just kept my mouth shut cuz everyone else liked it 😭
I spoke up from the start and feel vindicated. I've seen all 10 Spiderman films and read hundreds of comics. No Way Home is objectively the second *worst* SpiderMan film ever made. Of course the two SpiderVerse films are the best. If someone were to ask me why a grown man would read a SpiderMan comic - I'd show them Across the SpiderVerse and then ask them why they waste time on childish Tom Cruise and Harrison Ford never grow up - movies instead. lol.
I also like how they did the multiverse in Into the Spider-Verse, when they made traveling to other dimensions a risk, where you could die if you're in the wrong dimension for too long
I don't think you watched the entire video he's explaining what exactly one got done that the other could not people of all ages can enjoy spider-verse whereas only people born of a certain time can enjoy no way home I grew up with Sam Raimi films and even I grasped that
3:46, but the 3 spidermen werent just for the fans, they were part of the story, mcu spiderman needs the help from the other spidermen because (1) they know the vilains like doc ock, green goblin, sandman ect, and (2) mch spiderman cant fight 5 vilains on his own, he needs help, that's what you don't understand, so it didn't fail, also your lying to yourself if you say you didn't like the 3 spidermen in the same movie, if you didn't like it then what is wrong with you ?
11:30 EXACTLY! Keyword being "Nostalgic" I watched No Way Home last weekend with my mom and that's why she barely understood anything that was going on in the movie because she didn't see any of the other movies I could have shown her all of the other movies but that would have taken days.
Yeah “failed” is a strong words. Also, I feel like this happens every time where you wait a year or so, and suddenly we have videos flipping the script on how feel about certain marvel movies 😂 not saying that’s exactly what’s done here, but I disagree with some of the points about NWH being more fan service than a coherent / character driven story. I do agree with some of the points tho. Again, great vid as usual 👌
Dude stop it. Why is NWH getting all this hate out of nowhere? ATSV and NWH are two completely different movies with different goals and they both succeeded in their own way. It would have made more sense if you compared it to Multiverse of Madness.
I can't even believe that ANYONE who is now saying NWH's terrible because it's too convenient with the timing. Wow all these people who were praising NWH with no signs of changing their mind of are suddenly saying it's trash now that the shiny new movie's out. I wonder why? Hmmm suspicious.
Omg I literally almost cried listening to you talk about the deep connection Miles and Peter share. It really shows how passionate you are about the movie :´´)
What do you guys think of the Spider-Verse, No Way Home comparison?🕸Comment below!💥 Thanks again to Brilliant! 🧠 Get a 30-day free trial + the first 200 people will get 20% off their annual subscription ➡ brilliant.org/FilmSpeak/
Another filmspeak L
@@shifterlocker2361 cool
Both of these movies are my favorite spider man movies! That’s just my opinion tho, and that may change when I see the new spider verse
Another filmspeak W
@@FilmSpeak Glad you called No Way Home out. It was trash and overhyped popcorn movie
The way I see it, No way Home was passing respect to the Spider-Man movies. Across the Spider-Verse was paying respect to Spider-Man as a character and concept
This. Which supports my opinion of the latter being the superior Spiderman movie. Spiderverse being a celebration of everything spiderman is a lot more touching and heart warming. Not to say that paying homage to past movies is bad, but spiderverse just feels more emotional and universal to me
I can't see that. They threw in popular characters. That's it
Action is below subpar. Visuals boring. Score? Forgettable. Story... Not sure. Villains? Poorly executed besides that one scene.
So underused. So poorly handled. Lost potential
@@alexanderwindh4830 the movie is a part one of two they're taking their time and in doing so Miles, Gwen and Peter are fighting two villains in there story and both of those arcs are about belonging and being accepted which ties into the end. Spiderman isn't all about action it's about the story and these characters
@@theoutsiderjess1869 He’s talking about No way Home my boy
@@alexanderwindh4830 hater
Another interesting point about letting Peter grow as a person - Peter *B* Parker is a pretty logical look at what happens when the character doesn't try to grow, have kids, and tries to carry on at 37 - it stops being "relatable" and starts just being _sad._
And now, come Across The Spiderverse, he's actually... _happy,_ while presumably having 30-40something issues as opposed to living the same way he did when he was in his twenties.
Good analysis ngl, you can do so much more with animation than in live action
@@itsmejinxfromleagueolegendsrea It's not just animation, it's story. But yeah, you're right.
Just something that never gets brought up with why Spiderman is such an amazing character design. He has literally the best power set of any Superhero.
Vague superstrength, agility, spider sense, sticky, and web slingers. He can literally fight an old man criminal with wings one movie, box Thanos in the next, fight drones in another, and then go dimension hopping. And none of it looks out of place. I don't think this gets enough credit. Picture how silly Daredevil would look trying to Box Thanos... Or how bad a movie would be about Thor taking on the Vulture...
And yet Spiderman is just at that perfect balance of power where you can throw him in virtually any superhero story and he's still interesting. Meaning whatever kind of Superhero story you want to tell, you can do it with Spiderman. His powerset is just perfection.
because he's the eternal underdog who has the WITs to come out on top. he has that jackie chan underdog dynamic going for him.
Right? How are silly sticky strings so much more adaptable than multiverse traveling doctor strange...
I swear I was thinking the exact same thing about Spider-Man's powers while watching the movie. His power set is so unique and so amazing. Just how he can stick to and walk on any surface, sit upside down but is completely normal, the way he swings, his agility and fighting style. It is unlike any other superhero and comics and I see why DC doesn't really try to replicate him. It's clear why he always has been and always will be my favorite superhero.
This is the most accurate deduction of Spiderman's versatility I've ever seen. Like he's so versatile he works in almost any situation either as a comic relief or as a sad/ grounded character
@@johnathanparks8410 I was thinking the exact same thing too like, how am I supposed to fight a guy that can stick to walls, I feel like I could take him but then I also cant cuz of his agility and strength, unlike other characters, once I see ironman or batman as a criminal I immediately know I'm hitting the snooze button
Maybe it's because Tobey Maguire is15 years older in NWH, but I like the fact that Raimi-Peter has sorted things out already. It's like a nice little reassurance that he turned out alright in the end despite the uncertainty we left him with.
As for Garfield, I still got the impression that he wasn't in a great place when we reunite with him.
It's interesting they implied Garfield's Spider-Man is still struggling. But I love that the movie offers him the redemption that he sorely needed. And he actually succeeds in that and can go back to his own world with renewed purpose and determination to do good.
Or does he? Andrew Garfield got infected by something in the post-credits scene
Bro literally said he killed people he hasnt been good in 10 years
I don't remember him saying he killed people... unless it was implied and I missed it.
@@OverlyPositiveFanboyafter a while I stopped pulling my punches
No way home wasn't bad, but I agree that honestly it was more fan servicey than coherent. The connection between Norman and Tom's Peter was just really difficult to establish. And like let's put the movie in a context where we want to watch it outside of the theater, cause the first time you watch it, it's exciting, but no way home feels DESIGNED for the theater experience, cause it loses too much with rewatches.
I just rewatched it and I’m excited for how the stories will branch out for it. Tom’s story is gonna feel more real and Toby’s and Andrew’s might get a few more chapters. Plus whatever it means for dr. Strange moving on too. And with the new miles story sort of branching into it as well
It's not that hard at all, he's fascinated by the concept of a multiverse and the idea of another peter parker. The goblin ends up acting like a sort of evil mentor to him, trying to impart evil into his heart. Tom Holland being a younger version of Peter helps facilitate this, and he ends up killing aunt may because she mentors him in the opposite way, not recognizing that she was becoming an 'uncle ben' to him in her dying moments and a really important martyr to him.
And fanservice aside, it's actually really enjoyable that they were able to make this green goblin have such a profound impact on Peter's story. He deeply shaped the lives of two spider-men, and connected the meaning and theme of Raimi's films to the MCU.
Totally agree I watched NWH when it came out and have never watched it in his whole since. Saw into the spiderverse back in 2018 and ive watched it a good 6 times. I saw the across the spiderverse the day it came out and i have watched it 1 time more a few days later
The connection isn't that hard. Norman wants to go home but Tom's Peter reminds him of his Peter with how smart he is and he can't help but latch onto that because it's a tiny bit of comfort plus the idea of not having that menace in his head would be great. The goblin on the other hands want to conquer this world and eventually destroy Peter cause he is a threat to his very existence with him wanting to cure him and all the rest so he does what he does best and makes Peter's life hell
@@theoutsiderjess1869 right I completely second this. The connection is there.
Say what you will but Spider-Man: No Way Home didn’t fail. It’s a different type of medium storytelling from the animated Spider-Verse films and it succeeded amazingly! Both Spidey film series have! 🙌
Clickbait
@@earljohnson2613 NWH did fan service in service of the story. Tobey McGuire and Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man’s brought meaning to Tom Holland’s Spider-Man story. That NWH rooftop scene is so well done!
It was a fan service moment that was amazing the first time but fails as a stand-alone movie the more times you rewatch it
@@slackstarfish8133 In my opinion, both Spider-Man: NWH and the Spider-Verse films have done the Spider-Man character justice through their Multiverse stories. They’re just different type of medium storytelling films. 🤷🏻♂️
@@earljohnson2613 Bro, I’ve seen way worse writing in the MCU series than that. 🤦🏻♂️ Each to their own, though. Not everyone’s going to love every Spider-Man film (including me) and that’s okay.
For all their strengths, Marvel Studios is not driven by the need to tell interesting or inventive stories. They’re driven by the need to constantly be in a position where hype and anticipation can be easily obtained.
I hate that they used to tell great stories and now it feels like they realized they don’t need to to get people to watch their movies :/
Bullshit.
@@shslmood2890 Bullshit.
NWH was still a great story though, it ties up toms story, gives him a rebirth sort of and shows that he has come a long way, stop dissing it
@@shslmood2890 Ik. And the whole MCU is suffering for it. 😞
One of my biggest problems with No Way Home's expression of its cameos is how homogeneous they are in fight scenes. All three main Spider-Men have several films where they fight so differently, where choreography and the way they interact with their villains is so different. When all three Spider-Men are fighting in the final fight of No Way Home, however, their styles are so indistinguishable that you often just can't tell who is who.
In Into the Spider-Verse, however, walk/run cycles, fighting styles, ways in which they confront their villains are so different. If they were all wearing the standard red costume, you'd still be able to tell which is which constantly.
I personally think that while NWH is a good love letter to all of the live-action Spider-Man movies, Spider-Verse 1 and 2 were great love letters to Spider-Man in general. Both NWH and Spider-Verse works imo, even though Spider-Verse is one of my personal favorite movies of all time.
It’s just amazing to be a Spider-Man fan right now.
Exactly.
imo No Way Home was pretty mediocre as a movie in general, but it was great as a homage to all the live action spider-men and it set up MCU Peter's college era. Most people didn't watch it because it was good, but because it was an event you couldn't miss
I completely agree. No Way Home IS good, but it’s not THAT good. The Spider-Verse films, on the other hand, I admit they’re not perfect either, but they are genuinely some of the best Spider-Man films we’ve ever gotten since Spider-Man 2 back in 2004. (Y’know, since these days we can’t really express that Spider-Verse is one of the best Spider-Man movies without someone mentioning Spider-Man 2 all the time).
Except in the Comics, It’s not a good time in the spider comics
Bro what about paul
I loved both movies, but I think you hit on the reason why I think Into The Spiderverse is better. No Way Home was a super fun theatre experience, but its so clearly tailored for the theatre and first time viewing and those "wow look at this!" moments that its almost awkward watching it a second time, even if the initial viewing is fantastic. The awkward pauses in the scenes where theres supposed to be audience reactions are a pretty stand out example of this for me. While No Way Home was spectacular on first viewing, the second time around had greatly diminished returns and I havent picked it up since. Conversely, not only have I watched Into the Spiderverse a probably double digit amount of times, its never dropped the quality of the experience for me. No Way Home was an event first, and movie second. Into the Spiderverse was a movie that happened to be an event.
No Way Home was still a great movie and was arguably a movie first overall and is still rewatchable.
Completely agree. Ive already seen atsv twice and it was great both times. Haven't seen. Nwh since it came out in theatres
The weakness of NWH is being directed by the same hack that made the previous 2 Holland movies, but for whatever reason, it pulled together well enough in this movie save for a little akward pacing. It's flaws don't lower it below a tear tearing 11/10 for me.
On the other hand, I haven't actually managed to sit through the entire first spiderverse yet. It's cute, entertaining enough, but just doesn't grip me, feels shallow in a way I don't know how to describe. It's supposedly revolutionary style feels like an urban unicorn vomited on me. In some alternate universe there's a cool version of what they were going for but we're not it. Second one looks a bit better, yet still I don't itch to watch.
@@waldoman7 i get where youre coming from! Spiderverse appeals to me so much partially bc im a huge sucker for visual symbolism in movies and ITSV and ATSV are chock-full of it! But they are paced very quickly and if the visuals dont hit your sweet spot I can totally understand balking on it.
I also think that while Spiderverse as a film series is a send up of the concept of Spiderman, NWH does a surprisingly excellent job at not just being a send-up but a *conclusion* to all of the live action Spiderman movies until that point, so theres a lot to sink your teeth into textually. Really, I think the direction of it is the only stickler for me. Where the awkward pacing at times and the "made-for-crowds" aspect (which isn't a flaw per se! just a different approach) made my rewatches harder to get through. I think a lot of stuff like this is down to personal preference, really! I think its really fun to do compare and contrast on what ppl (including myself) like and dont like about these films
@@kep6417
Thing is, I loved No Way Home, but even as a fan of it, I can acknowledge that my enjoyment of it came from the heap of mindless fan service it dumped on us. The fan service in Spider-Verse is also there, don’t get me wrong, but it’s mainly minor cameos and my favorite parts came from the actual story itself. Unlike NWH, ATSV has originality. That’s where it failed - and even when it “failed”, it was still a damn good movie. They both work!
no its not mindless at all like he said there is a virtual reason why all those spiderpeople from different dimensions are there because of the collider and the Spider society time events and then NWH they 2 convenient spidermans just come outta no where from Dr. strange portals just so the heros can win because obviously Toms weak ass cant beat 5 villains alone. THATS MINDLESS just grab 2 spidermen literally walking in alleyways lmfao
@@MMkillsINCTV I was calling NWH mindless, not Spider-Verse
I liked it for the action but into and across the spiderverse had going "kick his ass miles" while the other was just kinda meh
@@theeleutheria1053 yeah same
It didn’t fail and the best parts weren’t even the cameos.
Miles could've just kept the bagel and everything would have been fine
Lol😂
LMAO
That hit The Spot
Both Spider-Verse AND No Way Home utilize the mediums they’re in to accomplish great things. Bringing in characters from Tom, Tobey & Andrew’s universes could only have full impact in live action, whereas Spider-Verse can only be as dazzling as it is because it takes advantage of being animated. Both work in differing ways.
Edit: Of course Spider-Verse is MILES better than NWH, and as a film fan I have a lot of problems with the MCU film. However I think it does a lot of things well too, like keeping the focus on Tom’s Peter and giving the others just a little taste of what has happened to them afterward. I still think it’s a great time despite it’s imperfections. I personally love and enjoy both, even if SV does it better and more brilliantly!
I agree with you
Except the story and plot for No way home was very drab and uninspiring. It was blatent fan service without a good story and development to go along with it. Spider-verse has the fanservec, great animation, and most importantly, the best spider-man story to date in the movies. No Way Home does not compare.
💯 Thank you! 🙏
@@SlyMagma it’s almost like one is a pretty good blockbuster and one got an Oscar. Don’t disagree, but it’s the pizza thing right? It’s pretty good most the time.
@@SlyMagma Oh I agree that Spider-Verse is MILES better (couldn’t help myself), but it’s amazing No Way Home accomplishes what it does given it’s medium
No Way Home is one of the those movies where you ignore all the flaws while watching it because you're lost in the hype. But when you think about it later, you realize just how many things don't make sense.
and that’s what makes a movie awful
Except I wasn't lost in the "hype". What hype is there to feel?
@@lukerne9260the return of the villains and the 2 spiderman
@@lukerne9260Tobet effing McGuire. The best spiderman of all time!
You could say the same thing about ITSV
This really opened my eyes to the criticisms the MCU trilogy has gotten, I love Tom’s portrayal of Spider-man but there are definitely some elements we are missing from his trilogy that the other films do so well.
Yeah, I have heard a lot of valid criticism about the MCU, however they got ignored by the fans. It's a shame really.
MCU spider man is doing there own unique take
@@tranngockha6562I realize that too but I’m fine with it tbh. All the movies have it’s flaws I just hoped it’s worked upon in the next one
do you just want a spiderman movie that does the same thing over and over again? come on now.
@@tranngockha6562 what criticism is being ignored?
The Miles Morales story arc fully leans into the absolute insanity of the endless universes, and that helps it tell the story of the spiderverse better, since the chaos of the infinity is incomprehensible and this is exactly how Into and Across the spiderverse feel.
It’s overhyped
@@MrAjking808*NWH was*
@@MrAjking808 That's your opinion.
@@MrAjking808Cope harder.
I was never as impressed with No Way Home as other people were, and I remember walking out of that theater in 2021 going “Spider-Verse did it better”. This video hits the nail on the head as to why I have that opinion.
ITSV is the most overrated CBM of all time 😂
These are two very different movies it’s like looking at fast and furious and saying mission impossible did it better 💀
@@spencerboyce6227 Dont be wishy washy. NWH was a bag of wasted potential. Different movie or not, NWH disappointed me. Dialogue was garbage and when it became clear they were going for nostalgia bait my experience of the rest of the movie took a nose dive
@@geraalcht Waste of potential. 💀What movie did you watch?
@@strikeatnyte You made that assumption because I dont look at ITSV as fondly as you kiss asses do? 😂 Would rather watch TDK Trilogy, SM1 & 2, Logan, Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Civil War and even NWH over ITSV
I felt like I was taking crazy pills when No Way Home released to overwhelming praise, people calling it the best MCU and the best Spider-Man movies. This video beautifully puts into words why I just couldn't even comprehend that take. Why No Way Home was such a let down for me.
Context helps. Between making the multiverse plot work, bringing back characters from 2 failed spider-man trilogies and consciously repeating the same mistake that killed those previous film series (villain overload), NWH could have stumbled and failed miserably. It's a miracle that it turned out as well as it did. Offering closure to loose threads, and satisfying those fans who complained about Iron Man Jr and resetting Peter to a street level hero after going to space.
Similar to Endgame which isn't mind blowing in isolation, but taken in the context that it bears the weight of concluded over a decade of films in a way that satisfied everyone. Even an OK result would have been impressive, yet they managed to hit it out of the park.
@@hiloskytobeys trilogy didn’t fail tho?
@@hilosky Tobey's trilogy did not fail. Idiot.
@@hilosky idk I hated how all his villains were just made into deferred Iron Man villains and having him fight a bunch of villains from better Spider-Man movies didn’t really change that
@@pheonexia theyre not iron man villains tho.. they fight Spider-Man, theyre spider-man villains lmao.
Some very valid points. NWH is a great show to see in a Movie Theater, but drags along when watched solo. Spiderverse and Across the Spiderverse ask for a closer second look, and that is the mark of a really good movie.
And the CGI in NWH was so ass😂
They should've consulted with James Cameron and his vfx to help make NWH VFX look watchable 😂
*Spoilers*
Just a thought.
Miles Canon event was his uncle. Gwen was Peter. So Miguel has made a mistake.
Spiderman India doesn't have one that's why his world was about to get erased and neither does Miguel, his world didn't get erased but the world of the Miguel he tried to replace.
I agree.. but it was supposed to be world 42 miles event.. not world 1601.. which us why in istv you saw 1601 miles BACKGROUND turn from green abd purple (prowler) to Blue and red (spider-man)..
Though that does ask a question..
If a Canon event happens in a different but similar universe, is it still a Canon event or a Canon departure
@@theoamos24 By every technicality, perhaps the universe registered that a Miles Morales got bitten, and knowing it was E-42's spider who got bitten, perhaps the canon event got registered so that dimension is okay (because it got registered with a Miles Morales regardless), so what E-1610 Miles Morales was supposed to go through got swapped with E-42's Miles Prowler Morales instead. But like you said that would beg the question of canon departure.
@PYR0K1N3T1C thank you for your input. I was thinking along the same thought. A miles became spider-man, and a miles became Prowler, two events that was suppose happened. This kept those two universes in tact, i think the main thing is that since 42 miles was supposed to be Spidey, is that 42 Peter Parker was meant to die? or he never became Spiderman?.., and we know what happened to 1610 Pete. So my new question. Is if it was a departure or switch which event caused it..miles becoming Spider-man or Peter for whatever reason not being an active spider-man.
I dont think no way home failed, but ATSV just did it better, its an actual masterpiece
It expanded on no way home. Events from no way home directly impact the spider society in across the spiderverse. Donald glover as prowler confirms this.
Live action is in my opinion better than animation
@@PapaPalpatine621 stupidiest thing ever shush
@@PapaPalpatine621 no it isn't animation will always be better stop huffing paint
@@Deadmaninks are people not allowed to have a opinion because you’ll start crying about it?
they act like 2 legends can't exist
"We've already see them go through their sht off screen Why not just pluck the heroes at their lowest moment."
Because then we just get a live action version of ITSV. In ITSV Peter Parker NEEDED to be the one falling apart. Because he needed to learn from Miles how to BE Peter Parker, so he could be a better Spider-Man. In NWH the Spiders NEEDED to be the ones who had their sht together to help Peter so he could remember how to be Spider-Man, as he was the one falling apart.
Miles wasn't falling apart, he just needed guidance on how to be Spider-Man. But being Spider-Man is only HALF of who these heroes are-Miles isn't JUST Spider-Man he is also Miles. He has his shoe laces untied, even in the ICONIC falling/rising shot. He loves parkour, he loves tagging and graffiti; his own suit is made via his outlet of self expression which is art. One thing I noticed in Across the Spider-Verse and even in Into the Spider-Verse, everyone has expectations of him. Some aren't great. Some think he's just a kid who has NO idea what he's DOING. But if Miles has proven anything, it's that anyone can wear the mask. He doesn't need guidance anymore-he has to learn to work things out on his own.
No Way Home and Into the Spider-Verse are two fundamentally different stories. Spider-Verse is about remembering who you are, about self discovery, about finding light even in moments of darkness, about learning that things are better when you aren't alone. No Way Home meanwhile was about second chances, about sacrifice and about legacy. The reason why the Spiders are handled the way they are in NWH isn't just for the sake of nostalgia.
Peter Parker/Spider-Man is a human being that innately has a desire to help people. "When you can do the things I can but don't, and then the bad things happen....they happen because of you." That's why Tobey and Andrew have their act together as much as they can (cause let's be real Andrew is SUFFERING). Because Tom needed them. And so they stepped up. Because that's what Spider-Man does.
the thing i hated the most about NWH is that... we had already had the responsibility speech in Civil War, but it was unique with its phrasing; "when you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you" sounds an awful lot like "with great power, comes great responsibility" without saying it, don't you think?
No Way Home didn't fail at all. Spiderverse just did most of it better. No Way Home just relied more on the nostalgia, which was beautiful
No... Its just lazy and kids plot
@@Yalovayahznepomnimenahow
Nah
@@Yalovayahznepomnimena What drugs did you take for you to have that yee-yee ass opinion?
@@Yalovayahznepomnimena it's not. you're just affirming your own biases.
No Way Home relies completely on the heavy lifting done not only by the previous Spider-Man movies, but some of the MCU as well. It's a nostalgia movie; take the nostalgia out of the equation (replace, for example, the other Spider-Men and villains with new actors with no previous attachment) and you get a story that's only so so.
Miles, on the otheer hand, earns his place in the Spiderverse, and the movie works because the story is solid. In fact, it's the best Spider-Man movie origin we have ever gotten.
One last thing: I absolutely HATE how the MCU just loves an unmasked Spider-Man, to the point that not only is Tom Holland spending half the movie actually showing his face, but even the other Spider-Men immediately take their masks off at the first sign of strangers. Really?
I'll grant you that NWH relies on nostalgia, but I'm not sure how that's a fair criticism since a part of this movie is literally continuing the story of the raimi trilogy and the webb duology. As for your nitpick about Spider-Man having his mask off in front of two strangers, the only reason Andrew even met MJ and Ned was because they were calling his name. They already knew who he was. What would be the point in hiding it? And tobey didn't even show up in costume.
Earns it place? How both movies are way overhyped because of kids
@@MrAjking808I agree lol. I just turned 27 a few months ago so I also have a different outlook on the film than most people calling it and the 1st a masterpiece. The 1st was a good film but killing off Peter just at the start through plot was was buzzkill for me.
Lol I can’t take idiots like this seriously. Miles morales has always road the cocktails of Peter Parker. He’s that annoying kid in the classroom saying oh look at me I’m cool too pay attention to me. Comic book sales speak for themselves and hardly anyone buys let alone reads them. He had one fluke movie that did well because of animation and a bunch of other factors. Heck even in his own comics he constantly has to be changed because nobody cares about him enough to be interested in purchasing them. One minute he’s wolverine the next minute he’s Thor, and so fourth and so forth. Lol a complete joke of a Mary sue character that can’t have any originality and so he has just become a leach sucking off of better written/original superhero characters.
@@GodofHatredNot to mention that’s something a good portion of superhero movie does. It’s not just a Spider-Man thing
No Way Home was a fun ride and a brilliant showcase of Spider-Man.
Then Across the Spider-Verse dropped and showed HOW TO PROPERLY DO SPIDER-MAN.
i think it's really telling that the entire appeal of nwh is the cameos and the starpower brought to the movie by the cast. conversely, itsv (and atsv even moreso) are chock full of amazing cameos and huge superstars and despite all that the most compelling part is miles. its such a testament to the character writing, as well as shameik moore's performance
well the difference is that it's miles first movie. we need to establish him first and foremost. holland had been spiderman in a half dozen movies before NWH. he is a focus but, we already know what he's about.
The funny thing is people claim they don't follow the hype train but that doesn't mean they don't have biases. You came in expecting 100% fan service with no plot, so regardless of whether or not you actually watched the movie, you walked out the same way.
@@LineOfThy i wasn't expecting anything from nwh, it was actually the first spiderman movie i ever watched LMAO
@@hihellohowareyoutoday And yet you know all about the cameos?
@@LineOfThy yeah dude I don't live under a rock, I know who Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield are
Spider-Man Into the SpiderVerse was amazing, one of the best animated movies I have ever seen, Across the SpiderVerse was even more incredible, the animation art style is top notch,story, music, Oscar Issac stole the show as Spider-Man 2099/ Miguel O'Hara 👏👏🕷🕸
ATSV is a masterpiece of artistry and emotional resonance. The stakes couldn't be higher.
the part of the score that plays when miles find out he's in the wrong universe is immaculate.
My biggest problem with no way home is how much it relies on the other movies to do the heavy lifting. If you haven't seen spiderman 1 and 2 then goblin and doctor octopus have no real weight as villains. While everyone else freaks out about them showing up you'll be confused as to who they are. They have character arcs in the movie but they function as extensions of the arcs from the reimi movies. Same with amazing spiderman. Part of the reason I feel this way is because I didn't see amazing spiderman 2. So the moment where andrew saves mj meant nothing to me. I knew what it was from memes, but it didn't leave that impression on me like it did on other people. Point is no way home had the potential to be a good stand alone movie, but as it is now you need to watch the other spiderman movies to enjoy it. It's definitely an issue phase 4 and 5 of the MCU have run into.
Although I do like ( kinda) no way home, I thought it wasn't as well as far out as it could have been,
sandman and lizard barely got to do anything in the movie,
and I'm huge fan of those characters in the comics
Aunt May's death was sad,
but it felt like they were kind of trying to wrap up the hole left by no Uncle Ben
they kinda of rushed through the final battle and some emotional moments that could have been done better if they built on it from the beginning
Now all that said, I am glad we did get to see all three Spider-Man on screen,
The chemistry was magical and played into the rest of the movie
but I'd be based to say there wasn't fan service in some ways
Plus no Venom
@@holycrusaderofgod8561 irrelevant
@@Alucard2091 then why teased him at the end of venom 2
@@holycrusaderofgod8561 DYK NWH has post-credits.
But for story-wise not every Venom variant is the same hence they're vacation mode
You conveniently ignored how useless Tombstone and Green Goblin are in ITSV.
They couldn’t have Tobey and Andrew plucked from the same spot they left off because Tobey has quite obviously become much older. Would’ve been impossible to portray him at that age.
It also would be a plot hole if they did.
Could say that do to some multiverse shenanigans he aged up
Spiderman no way home was a: thank you for being with us
Spider-Verse is a: But now, we will make history.
Underrated comment
Box Office: No Way Home hit 1.9 Billion during Covid. Very Impressive
@@cheezyfro144 Nobody asked
@@shslmood2890 nobody asked for this video and he still made it so… stfu
Am I the only one still wondering how Electro was even brought into the MCU when the spell was supposed to only bring people who knew Peter’s identity?
explained in into the spiderverse
@@karaokekingskingdom no it wasn’t, noway home came out after Spiderverse.
@@galientl4723 i meant across the spiderverse
@@karaokekingskingdom like when?
@@galientl4723 they explain why villains from different universes were popping up in other universes, also explains how vulture ended up in venomverse
I believe live action can also be very animated, for example I think Edgar wright would be perfect to direct a Spider-Man movie in live action, if Scott pilgrim and baby driver shown me anything is that he could definitely bring a larger than life comic book film to his live action films
By way of title, I think the video title lead-in is wrong from the get-go. Both no way home & the spider-verse are a top notch achievement and I disagree completely with your takes on NWH. I agree Homecoming and the sequel are lacking in different ways that were mentioned... never was much of a fan of Homecoming. But No Way Home was on the money and it all the right notes for the MCU. Both make brilliant usage of the multiverse with its potential proving to be virtually limitless.
Spiderman no way home is Tom's spiderman 3 not a full blown multiversal movie. Its a story where his Spiderman officially becomes Spiderman its the end to an origin story. Into the Spiderverse was also an origin story but was planned to be a multiversal story from the start. It starts with the death of a Spiderman and an Introduction to a older more wore down one who get ropes into training this kid
To add also Miles doesn't get help only from the spider people but he also helps them.
People are so mad at this...
He didn't said NoWayHome sucks.
He just said Spiderverse handled the multiverse better, and NWH had a significant amount of wasted potential with it.
The Multiverse in NHW is just fan service, of course. The more you rewatch the movie the lesser cool it gets, but it still makes it work on its own way.
WHAT the video is saying is that, No Way Home fumbled the bag into the opportunity of growing the Tobey's and Garfield's Spideys, as well as their villains.
I think the word failed is a loaded term. But for me, the main issue is the people saying that the only reason people like no way home is nostalgia, which is just so mindlessly hateful towards people who like it for no reasom
What was the difference they handled the multiverse almost exactly the same?
We need to stop this No Way Home backlash tbh, I know it was really hyped up but damn. We don’t need to give it an equal amount of backlash to balance out or whatever it is we’re trying to do…. One could argue it’s still a top tier live-action SM movie. I think Spider-Verse is the best SM movie overall, but it seems to be popular to put NWH down. Especially in the YT editorial community. And it’s getting overplayed tbh.
I agree the way people are hating on this movie doesn't make sense and i wasn't necessarily a big fan of the mcu movies before nwh
@KingSupreme I agree, there is a kind of pretentiousness and pseudo-intellectualism that goes along with NWH backlash. It's fine if someone prefers Spiderverse over NWH, but the problem is that a lot of criticism of NWH doesn't seem to be coming from a place of good faith.
@@realityshifter3399 yeah that’s how I feel. I mean if you have problems with it, that’s fine. But there seems to be a movement to drag it through the dirt. I suspect that if it wasn’t so hyped up it wouldn’t be getting this treatment. I feel like it’s only getting so much backlash bc it’s so popular and ppl really like to be contrarian.
@@king_supreme1102 I think it has to do with fact that NWH is associated with MCU and thus associated with Disney which they don't like. There have been this growing movement to write off the MCU as "NOT cinema" and the backlash against NWH is an extension of that argument.
@@realityshifter3399 I can see that. I mean I’ve been pretty disappointed with the MCU as of late. But I think NWH was it’s best movie in the last few years. I can take some issues with its writing seriously, but all in all I think there’s a LOT of good that people overlook. Again I think you could make the argument that it’s a top tier live action SM movie. Plot holes? Ok I can understand that. But to ignore it good pacing (despite the fact that it has a lot going on), it’s relatable and likable characters, it’s arc for Peter, and the fact that these legacy characters have a reason for being there seems a bit disingenuous. I mean Toby and Andrew both have reason for being there. They’re not just fan service cameos. It really brings to attention good fan service Vs. Bad. It’s good when it does have a purpose for being there. And Toby and Andrew do. Granted, not all of the villains are super fleshed out. But compared to how Spider-Man 3 and TASM 2 handled multiple villains, it does a pretty solid job. And I liked how they kinda reimagined Peter’s origin. They reframe it to make this his origin trilogy. While usual, I think they did a nice job of it. And knowing he has another trilogy coming (where he’s a fully formed adult SM) I think it works.
For me, my entire perspective on the spider-man movie's have changed with spiderverse and no way home. In the sense that because each variant of spider-man is so different, that I kind of don't want them to be the "same" anymore and i'm quite glad that each one is unique
I don’t think it’s fair to say NWH failed at the whole multiverse thing. Every spidey and most villains in the movie had satisfying arcs/endings that contributed to the forwarding of the story. If you want to say a multiverse movie failed, Doctor strange MoM might be a better fit.
Outside of Andrew and Electro…I can’t really say I think they all had fulfilling arcs
@@FilmSpeak Didn't Tobey and Tom had? Not even the Dock Ock? almost all the characters were complemented with the message of the second chance that the film left, Tobey and Andrew had their redemption saving Norman and MJ respectively at the same time closing the arc of Uncle Ben, and Tom (as much as you criticize him) has probably the most complete development of a cinematic Spider-Man, learning the value of responsibility in a beautiful way, and I don't understand how you call the movie "ugly to watch" when it has so many of the most beautiful shots or sequences of any movie of the character (Peter looking at Jameson in the rain or the final swing)
@@aspiceeone It really was not terrible, not at all it still had all that character growth and arcs.
@@aspiceeone Okay, but that’s your opinion tho. It didn’t fail. It did really well in the box office.
@@SkyLord1846 no duh, any capeshit flick by marvel is going to do numbers, especially spider-man lol
The legitimately insane urge that humans have to only be satisfied with something if they can compare it to something else or tear something else down in order to build another thing up. It's exhausting. WHA THE HELL IS THE POINT IS THIS VIDEO DAMN.
(21:35) They should have included the deleted Mary Jane scenes into No Way Home as an unseen flashback imo!
I think NWH was the final lesson for Tom Hollands spiderman. It always felt like he was a little clumsy as Spider-Man and I think the lesson in NWH for him to realise the real seriousness of what he does. And the other spidermen cameos helped him process that trauma properly, and not to lose sight of what he set out to do when he put on the suit.
Spiderverse was about miles learning to be Spider-Man in his own way. MCU was about Spider-Man becoming a fully realised hero.
When did people start disliking no way home? Because when it came out people were acting like it was the second best if not the best spiderman movie
I wasn’t but I still loved it, though it was mainly because of the fan service
THANK YOU! I have been saying these things AND more. That No Way Home is just not that great of a spiderman movie, let alone A Movie I don't mean to hate but after a few watches like...3 or so, none of the jokes, characters, etc really stand out. Every time I watch no way home I literally feel like ITSV just did it better
Finally, some criticism of No Way Home. Something about it seriously just didn't gel well, and someone finally worded it.
I think the best comparison of style for the multiverse is comparing something like No Way Home or Multiverse of Madness to Everything Everywhere All At Once. Both EEAAO and ITSV share a distinctly unique use of the multiverse that is intrinsic to the themes and story both movies try to tell. Because of this, the need for a visual style that is bombastic and groundbreaking is imperative for the movie itself to hold the audience and match the craziness of the very concept of a multiverse.
I do have to say, NWH was a pretty good movie! It was not my personal favorite, but I still enjoyed myself while watching. Personally, the other Peter's still worked on screen just because they come in late enough where the limited exploration of them plus the intense focus on Holland Peter made it work. I think the fact that I have never seen the Maguire Spiderman movies and only the first of the Garfield movies just generally made my viewing of them movie enjoyable, but certainly not particularly hyped. It was not a bad premise, it was handled pretty well, and for an MCU movie, it was pretty solid. It's a stark contrast to my genuine enjoyment of ITSV, where I have watched it a number of times again after I first saw it back in 2018. ITSV has become one of my all time favorites, while NWH was an enjoyable experience, but not a movie that I will probably ever return to.
No way home didn’t fail & I’m tired of people trying to push that it is. Both films had different goals & both succeeded it.
it's almost like one movie was bold and new while the other had a spider-man established by a half dozen other movies by this point. not only are they different mediums but, both characters are in entirely different stages of development.
If you think about it, Peter was only spider-man for 6 months before Tony showed up. Which probably means he only faced petty thieves and what not, which never really gave him a Chance to grow and change that’s why it’s progressed over his time in the MCU to where he eventually realizes his mistake in NWH and in the end he makes the sacrifice to let everyone forget him. Reinforcing his knowledge of great power comes great responsibility, but it also takes the other two from different multiverses to help him come to that and mentor him just like Miles had. Heck Toby SM stopped Tom SM from making a huge mistake-killing goblin. I don’t think NWH failed because we already knew the multiverse existed and this movie completely demonstrated that. And it’s not like it was random, they way they brought it up was very well executed. I love both films and think both are perfect examples of what it means to be spider-man
actually miles was only a spider man for only a week when he met another spider man in spiderverse 1 and had to deal with multiverse right after that. while NWH was only doing nothing but crying feeling guilty and stuff. that is such a disappointment
@@fedietu straw men
love how atsv kind of turned this whole argument on its head lol. also I’m sorry but the mcu spiderman trilogy was destined to fail the moment it made its version of uncle ben be fucking billionaire tony stark. it absolutely undermines the idea of the character
Failed is strong language, NWH was a great film, The Spider-Verse movies were originally done, whereas NWH was essentially a reboot. Not fair to compare.
It’s all opinion though cause no way home didn’t fail. Audiences loved it (like 90 something %). It made 1.9 billion (with a big old B). Most important thing to me, I actually liked it. I liked both of em. They’re both great Spider-man movies…
fuck the audiences and box office. how bout that pretty boi?
I also really enjoyed it but I don't think it holds up as a standalone movie at all
@@haidrow4008 Great because it ain't supposed to
@@LineOfThy? Makes no sense n if a movie can’t stand alone without others connecting it.. then my boy we got a problem..*
@@sloppnbiscuiitz Why?
yeah just be snarky and say no way home failed to gain viewers . Both are great amazing movies
Hes not saying it failed. Hes saying it failed in some areas and spider-verse succeeded in those said areas no way home failed in.
@continental_consumer read the video title
Alright, at this point, you can’t tell me that you either simply just don’t like the MCU or you’re literally trolling.
I personally loved both of these movies and I’ve seen both no way home and across the spider verse 3 times in theaters I just had so much fun watching these movies and I feel like Spider-Man is in a good place and hopefully the next movies will keep up this entertaining energy.
13:47 one of the criticisms you give on NWH is that some of its characters (mainly in regards to villains) don’t need to be there because they don’t add anything to the story, but if you really think about it, how were most of the villains in Into the Spider-Verse impactful to the story in any way? Don’t get me wrong, ITSV and ATSV are probably both in my top five favorite animated movies, but let’s be real here and admit that the only villains that actually DO anything significant as characters in the story are Kingpin and Prowler. Tombstone, Scorpion, Green Goblin (who is literally only there for one fight scene), hell even Doc Oc do absolutely nothing for the story and even Doc Oc merely serves as a plot device to get the science behind the Spider-Verse ball rolling just so the movie can happen. I love both movies, and I feel like this is just an unfair criticism of one and not the other. Just my opinion though.
Spider-Verse was still trying to prove itself, so it gets a pass with being a bit underwhelming in that regard, as opposed to NWH which wasted characters who have more background being that they had whole movies to establish themselves, but Sandman is given motivation that should meant he has no stake but his own, yet somehow still manages to have him being more of a hindrance to the heroes in spite of the fact the villain's plan would be entirely detrimental to him getting back home and Lizard...well, even the film can barely justify why he was there beyond fanservice, which shows how much they think about him. I'd say it's worse to be underwhelming with established potential than it is to waste newcomers.
I see where you’re coming from. However, I would argue that’s in no way the same thing. Tombstone, Scorpion, and Goblin are all henchman that don’t ask anything of the audience. Some people only think it’s a problem because they just happen to be big names in the comics. Ock was used as the way to explain the main mechanics of the plot and fit that role as well as providing some struggle for the heroes. The villains in No Way Home are all given some motivation beyond just a henchman and made a bigger deal, yet only Goblin, Ock, and Electro (barely) have anything worthwhile to do in the story. Even Ock kind of drops off once his problem gets dealt with. Sandman is even established to not really vibe with the villains and just wants to go home, yet is still seen fighting with them for no real reason. It’s just a gimmick to get cool stuff to happen. Fun gimmick, but a gimmick nonetheless.
I feel like something people don't seem to understand about ITSV is that miles's universe isn't supposed to be the spiderman universe we know and love. It's different, so it makes sense change up some of the roles of it's villains. For example, we expect green goblin to be Spiderman's nemesis, but in ITSV, it seems pretty clear that Spiderman(earth 1610)'s nemesis is actually Kingpin. In the film, Kingpin demonstrates a great amount of not only physical power, but also political and financial power, considering that he is able to build the collider and why most of the movie's villains work for him. While it would've been nice to see some of these "henchmen" versions of Spiderman's classic enemies get more character development, the narrative simply didn't need it, as it would've just added unnecessary baggage and detract away from Kingpin. Also, keep in mind that it doesn't really make sense for the film to delve into those characters simply because the perspective we are given in the film is that of miles, who is thrown into an established conflict, kingpin's super collider. The scene where Spiderman fights kingpin's henchmen and tries to stop the collider is actually a great example of this, as it shows how miles is not really apart of the conflict And therefore does not know the motives or backstory behind some of the characters. In fact, in the majority of the movie, we see most scenes played out from miles perspective, so we only really know as much as miles does, although this changes in ATSV. Although I will say that spider noir, spider pig, peni, and even spider Gwen to an extent, were underutilized as characters, with most of them just showing up just for the sake of it. But, this is simply my take on this, although I might be bit biased since this is one of my favorite movies of all time, but we're all biased to an extent, as we're only human after all. Cheers
I think we can celebrate both for what they are, and how they contributed to the overall Spider-Man lore, without using one to retroactively criticize the other. One seem to be a celebration of all Spider-Man movies before, the other seem to be a new version telling the story going forward. Both were wildly successful, and I think both worked really well for what they were trying to do.
they're honestly just on 2 entirely different levels in pretty much every aspect
without no way home's fanservice, it is just a mediocre-decent movie (and i use those terms loosely). without spiderverse's fanservice, it is still just as fantastic.
2 completely different stories for the character.
*heres the view you desperately needed*
Spider-Verse just makes so much sense. I have seen the film like 8 times and it never got old. I only watched No Way Home twice in theaters but on the second viewing, you really start to notice how everyone is forced to act like a dumbass in order for the plot to work
Really feel like y’all aren’t old enough to understand the movie & just overhyped this movie
No Way Home was a huge hit, and it was a good movie. Into the Spiderverse is the BEST Spider-Man movie.
This is exactly what the second spider-verse talks about! There are no rules to being Spider-Man, all you need is perseverance.
THANK YOU you've worded what ive been trying to say to people perfectly for the most part
The switch up on no way home is insane. A movie being fun doesn't make it bad
I swear. People say it’s bad bc fan service. What’s wrong with serving fans? The plot was still good, everything about it was good
Into the Spider-Verse is fun too bruh
@@lukeshoo but that doesn't mean NWH is bad
@@LineOfThy no it doesn't but it makes Sarah's point meaningless because nobody is hating on NWH for being fun. It's such a mixed bag. Into the Spider-Verse is fun but *worked* at the same time. NWH isn't worked at all.
@@lukeshoo Except that's not true at all.
Making Spider-Man way home was a feat of moving mountains people should really appreciate that it exists and is as good as it is because it could've been a huge disaster like the rise of skywalker
Yep to that.
💯 And Spider-Man: No Way Home managed to also make Emperor Palpatine have more meaning than The Rise of Skywalker. 🤦🏻♂️
@@brucecrawford_17 What do you mean by that?
@@davidcatlett4052 The Lego miniature of Emperor Palpatine was shown again in No Way Home from Homecoming as a reminder/representation of Peter and Ned’s friendship. There was no original plan to bring Palpatine back for The Rise of Skywalker and was only brought in to sell tickets. 🤦🏻♂️
@@brucecrawford_17 Oh yeah. Thanks for that reminder. I had forgotten. The scene where Peter glances at the cut on Michelle's head and decides then to stay silent is burned into my memory.
No Way Home failed? I thought it was an awesome movie, but I guess I’m in the dark.
The shit ass plot
The no sense making spell of dr strange
Changing previously established plot for convince
No way home was only good for nostalgia the whole movie was a mess and made no sense
@@ishaanvohra5702 During Covid it hit 1.9 Billion Dollars. Now Imagine if there was no Covid… lmao
Something that keeps me up at night is the fact that theres probably a universe out there where willlem defoe is actually a serial killer pshycopath like the green goblin.
That would be pretty scary
No way home felt like a SNL skit.
You really don't have to put one movie down to raise the other. Both were amazing, fun and satisfying movies. I don't get y'all.
Spidey is the one character marvel has put the most passion in since the infinity gauntlet saga ended and that if nothing else is worthy of respect for all the films❤
Why do u say that ?
No way home failed?
Dafuq you on about
You can’t say a movie that made almost 2 billion at the box office failed 😂😂
No Way Home was so lackluster and disappointing. Thanks for articulating this so well.
I disagree about no way home. The reason he didn't touch their arcs is because he respected these legacy characters. We've seen it so many times where legacy characters get snatched up and ruined. These are two completely different films with different reasons for existing. It's not fair to compare the two .
Perfectly sums up my feelings about nwh. Also, I hated the cgi of nwh. Not to mention about multiple plot holes throughout the whole movie.
For me personally, Spider-man ITSV, Spider-man ATSV & Spider-man 2 these three are the best movies overall.
Blame Disney, they didn't want him to grow on his own. So he can team up in the future.
I feel like miles works because Sony has completely separate.
If the rumors are true and the Spiderverse becomes a part of Marvel I will not be okay
Who said no way home failed?
love this channel man! ever since my wife died in a car crash, these videos have brought me immense pleasure. you have become my comfort channel. my favorite movie of the year so far is Ant Man and the wasp quantumania! so underrated!
People in the comments really trying to argue that the movie that was made for fanservice wasn't just fanservice...
Fr
Spiderman 2 will always be the best spiderman film
That. And you can add Across the Spider verse on that list too😊
@@I-speak-U-shut-it
that movie is overrated. Into the Spiderverse is better and deserves to be up there with Spiderman 2.
Why tf is no way home failing all of a sudden? It's a great movie that entertained a whole lot of fans. I'd consider that working both as a superhero and spiderman film.
I have to disagree. No Way Home has an ending and not just build up where as Across the Spider-verse has so much build up and when it gets good it just ends no ending and is incomplete. Across the Spider-Verse is just half a film. I can't get into spoilers but when you see the film you'll understand. If you want to end your film on a cliffhanger you need to do it right like Empire Strikes Back, Fellowship of the Ring or Infinity War.
"Taking a concept that is a little out there but still grounded in the problems of day-to-day life and throwing it into the full-blown reality of Science Fiction. That science fiction will then amplify those problems" Never have I ever heard a more succinct explanation of fiction narrative. Absolutely stellar.
Failed is such a weird word. Because in no way did "No way home" fail in any sense of the word, except maybe for film critics, or people who view it as an individual, standalone film. And honestly, if you watched it as an individual film, without knowing the previous films exist or watched them, you kinda deserve to be disappointed. Marvel/Disney and the MCU has made it abundantly clear, especially with the last Ant man movie, that the TV and movies are intertwined, and there are points that won't work as well if you don't know what happened in the previous show/movie.
This analysis overall just feels, poor. Like, of course you can do more expression and show uniqueness in an animated movie. Literally everything that shows up is by choice, so you HAVE to think through each pixel that shows up on the screen. It sort of feels like you're punishing the median of movie choice, rather than what relevant choices were made to make a good movie or limitations we're unaware of.
I love both. Would hardly call NWH a failure. Give me more spideyverse films with the 3 spidermen.
*Thats juss it tho.. them 3 the only reason we went to see it.. fuck the story n all n that’s why this movie buns b*
@@sloppnbiscuiitzthe story was gorgeous dude
@@swordchannelfires *🤷🏽♀️ guess it’s about perspective*
I'm gonna address this in the most civil way possible since I do like both Into the Spider-Verse and No Way Home. FilmSpeak, I think you're wrong. No Way Home didn't fail. It's a different style of a multiversal story that, frankly, I think is executed better than Into the Spider-Verse.
No Way Home actually takes advantage of the multiverse and uses it to bring Spider-Man's inconic villains into the forefront. Aside from Lizard and Sandman, who were pretty underutilised, Electro, Doc Ock and Green Goblin play important roles in the story and aren't just fodder for Spider-Man. Not only that, but the end goal for them isn't to defeat them, but to HELP them and REDEEM them. Peter doesn't want their blood on his hands and he doesn't want to kill them, even though they've all done terrible things. Having the Green Goblin as the final villain for the MCU Spider-Man works because it brings his entire film history full circle and pushes him to his limits.
Speaking of which, the Spider-Men of the previous movies also play large roles in the story and aren't there to just be glorified cameos, unlike Peni Parker, Spider-Man Noir and Spider-Ham. They serve as his mentors and big brother figures, evolving him into the true hero he can be.
Now, Into the Spider-Verse is a great Spider-Man movie, it is. However, it doesn't use the multiverse to its full potential, albiet it was a small scale story that leads into a bigger scale later on. While Prowler and Doc-Ock were good villains, Kingpin as the main villain was the wrong decision to make. Here you have a story about alternate versions of Spider-Man coming in to stop a common threat and the main antagonist... is a mob boss.
Not only that, but despite being heavily advertised in the trailers, Peni, Noir and Ham barely do anything in the movie. They're just... there. Gwen and Peter B have more of an impact to the story and to Miles' development than those 3 do.
FilmSpeak, you are entitled to your opinion. But I'm entitled to disagree with it and I'm sorry to say this, but you saying No Way Home failed is completely disengenuous. No Way Home didn't fail, it's just a different style of storytelling.
*Nahh. Y’all with the “it’s a different style of storytelling” is dis genuine. Don’t mean to be rude but no shit.. that’s goes without sayin n im noticing plenty of y’all don’t have many flaws with nwh.. could that be because y’all would’ve loved it regardless 🫢 cause it’s 1 thing to know some is shit but can still find enjoyment in it like for me it’s transformers.. the 1st 3 to be specific but Ik they’re cheeks. Lots of y’all defending it to a T which only further proves y’all are semi blinded by familiar faces..*
@@sloppnbiscuiitzDude, just stop. Okay? Just stop. I'm allowed to disagree with FilmSpeak on their opinion.
@@TheFLAMEXD *Aye 🤷🏽♀️ you got me there*
@@sloppnbiscuiitzWith what you said, you can make the same argument with Into the Spider-Verse. I'm not saying that No Way Home is a perfect, flawless movie. However, FilmSpeak saying that "Spider-Verse works, No Way Home" doesn't is entirely wrong. They both work, they just do things differently.
i honestly never really liked no way home, the scenes with andrew and tobey were wholesome but that was about it. i just kept my mouth shut cuz everyone else liked it 😭
I spoke up from the start and feel vindicated. I've seen all 10 Spiderman films and read hundreds of comics.
No Way Home is objectively the second *worst* SpiderMan film ever made.
Of course the two SpiderVerse films are the best.
If someone were to ask me why a grown man would read a SpiderMan comic - I'd show them Across the SpiderVerse and then ask them why they waste time on childish Tom Cruise and Harrison Ford never grow up - movies instead. lol.
@@Strangerz64 That’s why it’s sitting at 1.9 Billion in the market… lmao. Almost 4x as much as ATSV…
I also like how they did the multiverse in Into the Spider-Verse, when they made traveling to other dimensions a risk, where you could die if you're in the wrong dimension for too long
19:00
“the last time we saw toby he did some *serious* irreparable damage”
*he’s just dancing*
Welcome to a video where the only way I can push the greatness of one movie is by belittling another
I don't think you watched the entire video he's explaining what exactly one got done that the other could not people of all ages can enjoy spider-verse whereas only people born of a certain time can enjoy no way home I grew up with Sam Raimi films and even I grasped that
If you didn't watch the raimi trilogy or the amazing spiderman duology would no way home still be as good?
@@flamebreaker7318 Oh no, the forst half sucks. I still believe the second half to be good even without that yeah
Once again FilmSpeak belittles MCU Peter Parker & NWH
I always thought it would be interesting to see a varient of Doctor strange from the Raimi-verse or TASM-verse in FFH.
3:46, but the 3 spidermen werent just for the fans, they were part of the story, mcu spiderman needs the help from the other spidermen because (1) they know the vilains like doc ock, green goblin, sandman ect, and (2) mch spiderman cant fight 5 vilains on his own, he needs help, that's what you don't understand, so it didn't fail, also your lying to yourself if you say you didn't like the 3 spidermen in the same movie, if you didn't like it then what is wrong with you ?
11:30 EXACTLY! Keyword being "Nostalgic" I watched No Way Home last weekend with my mom and that's why she barely understood anything that was going on in the movie because she didn't see any of the other movies I could have shown her all of the other movies but that would have taken days.
Yeah “failed” is a strong words. Also, I feel like this happens every time where you wait a year or so, and suddenly we have videos flipping the script on how feel about certain marvel movies 😂 not saying that’s exactly what’s done here, but I disagree with some of the points about NWH being more fan service than a coherent / character driven story. I do agree with some of the points tho. Again, great vid as usual 👌
Dude stop it. Why is NWH getting all this hate out of nowhere? ATSV and NWH are two completely different movies with different goals and they both succeeded in their own way. It would have made more sense if you compared it to Multiverse of Madness.
I can't even believe that ANYONE who is now saying NWH's terrible because it's too convenient with the timing. Wow all these people who were praising NWH with no signs of changing their mind of are suddenly saying it's trash now that the shiny new movie's out. I wonder why? Hmmm suspicious.
@@parycartoons6840 nah I just thought about it more if I hadn't grown up with raimi and amazing spiderman that movie would've meant jack shit to me.
Where exactly did no way home fail?! This movie was awesome! Both movies are great.Ok with Spider vers being 1 because man that movie was good
NWH is really good, it'd just that ATSV does everything it did better and makes it look worse in comparison.
NWH failed AS A STORY
Omg I literally almost cried listening to you talk about the deep connection Miles and Peter share. It really shows how passionate you are about the movie :´´)