Uh. No. Just because it was animated that way doesn't mean Vegeta was Grade 3. That's like saying Goku went MUI against Broly because one frame of animation during his SSB transformation looked like MUI. If Vegeta went Grade 3, the anime would have announced it. The point of using Grade 3 was too highlight its shortcomings. That wasn't illustrated whatsoever in the Vegeta fight. People think they're clever reading between the lines when in reality they're just using their head-canon to justify their made up opinions.
@@FurbyParade226why? Most of the second paragraph wasn't needed. He didn't even present this as fact, he just commented. No need for you to be condescending
@@chrishosey7535 Almost all of this video is being presented as fact & everybody is agreeing with it. Condescending, maybe. But when pointing out the facts gets me nowhere I have to resort to being a tad more assertive.
@FurbyParade226 that's the whole point. It was literally animated & illustrated for way more than one frame. Please explain why his body kept expanding & contracting while he was powering up final flash. He kept pulling extra power from the ussj form.
I just wanted to point out that there might be some narrative implications that point towards Trunks being weaker than Vegeta as well. When Trunks and Vegeta emerge from the time chamber Trunks falsely believes that he has surpassed his father with a Super Saiyan transformation that his father could not achieve. Contrast this with Goku and Gohan were Gohan falsely believes to be weaker than his own father when in actuality he has already surpassed him and has the potential to archieve a Super Saiyan transformation that his father couldn't. I always thought that this was a deliberate parallel to highlight Goku and Vegeta's respective relationships with their sons as well as their parental styles, Goku mainly focused on his son in the time chamber whereas Vegeta only focused on himself.
@@frankiejones7858Well Trunks managed to achieve super saiyan 2 on his own facing off against Majin Buu in a waste land of a planet then achieve a rage form that no other saiyans have attained. I’d say Trunks is on the same potential level as Gohan but since he ain’t the son of the main character then obviously his potential will never really shine that much
I think Vegeta being in grade 3 while doing his final flash makes the most sense, and i hadn't even thought of that. The raw power itself had Cell doubting himself and took off half his body. Tbh, it really isn't the first time we've seen people power up their bodies in order to do a blast. A good example would be Master Roshi, back in early Dragon Ball, doing the Kamehameha. He would have to power up into his buff form, which maximized his power in order to create the powerful blast.
@@sky-oq5mrwell yeah coz cell showed pity to trunks as he literally killed trunks in another universe. Live future trunks but vegeta was the better fighter though he's still 3rd behind gohan and goku
@@ssk58607 Are you drunk? Cell don't give AF about no trunks. He pity Vegeta, just instant ko didn't even play around with em to not hurt his pride. Trunks actually hurt cell
I didn't know this was a debate. Its clearly been proving by Cell and Trunks conversation that Vegeta could go grade 3 but choose not to because of the speed
I was looking for a comment like that, this is my problem with this video too. Vegeta could do everything Trunks did and more, this was supposed to be clear. This shouldnt have been a question.
Saiyan Scholar did a video on that Final Flash more or less confirming what you said about him harnessing grade 3 to concentrate the attack. The comparison you made to Goku killing Yakon was a really great example! It's also interesting how Vegeta couldn't master Super Saiyan as a base state to achieve grade 4 like Goku and Gohan. Too much rage for him to be calm in it, I guess? I'm of the opinion fpssj/grade 4 is simply the same potential & overall multiplier as grade 3, only that it lacks all the weaknesses of grade 3 and can maintain itself efficiently. This is how ssj2 became unlockable by turning ssj into a calm base state for another anger transformation.
When i first watched the scene nearly 2 decades ago I thought this was implied when he charged up against semi-perfect cell and slimmed out before bull rushing him to the gut.
I totally agree that Vegeta used grade III to perform that Final Flash, for something like an all or nothing beam attack the form would make sense like Kaio-ken
Vegeta would win in a fight between him and trunks even just considering his character he has a bigger drive than trunks do when it comes to training and fighting in general Vegeta’s experience would be an advantage over trunks, although trunks did gain about the same amount of power as Vegeta I think since they are relatively close in power at this point in the series, experience would play a big part, you could tell this by Vegeta knowing the drawbacks of ssj grade 3 opposed to trunks.
this is future Trunks who doesn't play around he would be a problem for Vegeta for sure he is around the same power if he had stayed in the present he would most likely have been stronger than adult Gohan and Vegeta from training
@@SuperbMoves yea you can say as far as finishing off his enemies he doesn’t play but as far as having a good training regime i don’t really know if he’s the best at that, Trunks is really the type of person to finish the job I see him becoming like Gohan in the fact that if there is no threat there is no reason for training. But then again I’m pretty sure Vegeta won’t approve of him slacking off so he’ll prob end up training.
@@westonnwaimo4002half saiyans don't have the thirst for battle so you're probably right lol though future trunks will not slack off considering how messes up his timeline is, and since he's the only warrior they got
Vegeta's battle tactics: 1. Bum rush a super powerful android with infinite stamina 2. Let the decently powerful villain attain their perfect form 3. Fight Goku, make Buu This yall tactician? 💀
@LuarIbriqi-qf4fh Vegeta would wait till Trunks pumps so much ki into his muscles that Vegeta just gets absolutely cooked. Plus while Vegeta is like "you can't beat me, you're just my seed" Trunks will be charging his heat dome attack 🗿
Sooooo, when watching Vegeta power up against Cell one Android absorbed, Vegeta was getting bigger but then slimmed and powered down. I knew then he knew that he was getting too bulky.
Yeah I imagined he though imperfect cell didn't require more powering up but it makes sense that he powered down for speed. Poor trunks isn't an experienced fighter like goku or vegeta to figure it out
Both Vegita and Goku both knew grade 3 has more power but would slow them down, vegita chose not to use grade 3 because he calls it a useless form plenty of times even in Super👍
@@sky-oq5mr As it stands, Super is the canon continuation of Z. And with the rumors about an entire reboot of the series called Dragonball Reborn, they might just further solidify this fact.
@@solaris218 First off, Super isn't an continuation in the slightest. It is happening during Z not after, Z takes place after. The only continuation that's shown to be canon to at least the Z anime is Dragonball GT which was shown on the last episode of Dbz. Dragonball super does not have the key moments that happened in Z nor does it want them. It erases, rewrites and scraps so much from Db and Dbz that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be canon. I don't know if it's due to Akira not caring or watching over it like he did with the GT makers or not but this is what happened. Toyotaro and Toei have made dbs into something that they wanted. The story does not fit at all making it Non canon. You can't canonize something that literally is impossible to piece into the story. Its as if someone said bleach the the canon begining of Dragonball. That's how bad super has changed things
I always liked the idea that Grade 3 was a 2.25 times boost. The concept that it's technically even stronger than Super Saiyan 2 further sells home the point that giant muscles and big numbers aren't everything.
The reasoning tracks but it would have made for better story telling in my opinion if trunks had the greater latent potential and actually had the better shot at defeating cell despite vegeta’s bravado and combat experience
I believe cell sensed that vegeta could go up a notch in raw strength which is why he schooled trunks that vegeta knew about this as well. The Dialogue between cell and trunks is the writers way of telling us that vegeta knew better.
Krillin is about to tell Vegeta that Trunks is stronger than him, even in Grade 2, but Trunks stops him. Trunks is stronger. There’s a reason Cell killed him.
Noooo, Goku showed he could go passed SSJ2 when he fought Yakon or whatever, that's when Vegeta knew he NEEDED Babidi's magic. Vegeta saw Goku had an extra gear that he himself did not posses, even after 7 years of training
Yeah he was. Vegeta could go Grade 3 or at least knew about it but he was smart enough to see its weaknesses. Some say Vegeta didn't know because he didn't say anything but he did know. When Goku and Gohan leave the chamber Trunks asks if they would transform to a higher form when they start fighting but Vegeta scolds him for not learning from his mistakes and not realizing there is more to a fight then raw power showing he clearly knew Trunks used Grade 3.
It is possible for that extra ten months vegeta did get grade 3 but prob not. I mean he got an extra whole year in HTC and came bag with not that big of a power up. It was the training vegeta had to power up each Tim he began training everyday. Goku and gohon trained smarter by keeping ssj form thus using less stamina making training more advantages
i thought this was obvious, it clearly says multiple different ways (Goku, Cell, Trunks)that Vegeta discovered the form too or 99% would have, but didn't use it.
Vegeta wasn't trying to be a dad to his already grown son 🤷. He let future Trunks do his thing. He let Trunks learn on his own. Btw Vegeta obviously transformed for that Final Flash
The manga and anime both said that Vegeta could but didn’t by trunks. But vegeta definitely did not turn grade 3 for the final flash. If he did trunks would have said something about that. Cuz after he shot the final flash he was still saying he was stronger than his father
Better Dragon Ball content than 1/2 the other creators out there. It’s not about opinion, it’s about creating a discussion. & you did that very well… BRAVO, subbed!
@@Neverend117You know? Like that time frieza came and trunks shows up and took out frieza and the others with ease? Was vegeta even stronger than them that time?
Vegeta held his own against Cell WITHOUT THE BULK FORM while Trunks couldn’t. Vegeta was stronger, he already passed his level & realized it after cell whooped him for going bulk
In the anime Vegeta litterlay except for the final flash wich Perfect Cell didn't even try to dodge didn't even make a single hit against Cell meanwhile Grade 3 Trunks actually managed to get solid hits on Cell and was more of a challenge to Perfect Cell. Yea thats the real difference.
Had to comment before the video was over to say that vegeta on multiple occasions let his ego cloud his battle Knowledge in fights. As smart and calculating as you say he is, that pride is his downfall. Edit: laughingstockmedia should take notes on this video. This is how you do a commentary style video on DBZ
That’s a fair argument, but more times than not, Vegeta is a strategic thinker in battle and usually aware of power gaps. And while I’m glad you enjoyed the commentary 100%, LSM is a beast in my opinion
Vegeta could go grade 3 if he wanted. Vegeta would just out pace trunks until he wasted too much energy on grade 3 and beat him once he wasted too much energy.
I think u asked the question the wrong way. Ultra Trunks was stronger than super Vegeta. Would trunks still be stronger if Vegeta went Ultra? Hell no. I don’t think trunks was ever stronger. He just boosted his power a lil bit more than Vegeta to try and fight Cell. With my scale, Vegeta and Trunks being around 12M battle power would put Ultra Trunks close to 1T. Vegeta would be around 700M and would clap Trunks because like u said, he was not the tactician Vegeta was. I think their story line, was meant to be the opposite of Goku and Gohan, Trunks went out of his way to show he was stronger than Vegeta when he never was. Gohan, never believed he was stronger than Goku until he was fighting Cell.
I thought he said he purposely didn’t show Vegeta not that he purposely didn’t try to surpass him. That’s why he waited until Vegeta was knocked out. Either way, i took the statement as him saying what he said, Vegeta broke the ssj wall, and he broke the next one, not knowing Vegeta had already broken through it. He thought he was stronger. If we didn’t learn anything about Trunks, he was wrong way more than he was right lmao
Hmm. I can't disagree with the conclusion that you arrived at here, but I CAN disagree with what evidence you provided to do so. You say that Vegeta is a smarter fighter than Trunks. Well.... That's highly debatable. Vegeta has overestimated his own power a lot more than Trunks has. He was out smarted by Goku, Krillin, and Gohan when he first arrived at Earth. He then got screwed up by the Ginyu Force on Namek. Frieza did a number on him as well. And this isn't even typical battle powers just simply being better than his. Vegeta had the advantage in a lot of these encounters, yet he rushed in headlong and carelessly as he always does. And we see that he still hasn't learned his lesson when he's manipulated by Cell to allow him to absorb 18. Then beyond that, despite hearing how incredibly strong Majin Buu was, he STILL charged Buu and even detonated himself to no avail. I love my boy Vegeta but I think there's far too many sources of material to confirm that he is NOT a smart fighter. And then there's Trunks. This one video highlighted his first and only mistake throughout the entire run of Z and Super. When Future Trunks first arrived on the scene, there was no wasted motion with Mech Frieza. He demolished that entire invasion all by himself. Vegeta has never done anything like that, and I mean like EVER. Then you had Trunks accurately anticipating the androids and how to deal with them albeit the fact that there were more of them. Skip ahead past the Cell mistake, and Trunks didn't do a lot. It's insinuated that he encountered Majin Buu and had no issue thwarting Buu's revival. During the Goku Black arc, Trunks is smart enough to go to the past and recruit the Z fighters to help him. Again.... Vegeta never would have done this. You may argue pride.... I argue sheer stupidity! At some point you have to be intelligent enough to set aside your pride and do what you need to in order to survive. Again in the Goku Black arc we see Trunks OUTLAST his father. It was just Trunks and Goku fending off Zamasu and Goku Black for a very long time (despite the fact that Trunks didn't have access to Super Saiyan Blue!) Trunks then achieved a form that neither Goku or Vegeta have access to. A form that allowed him to take on Goku Black and Zamasu by himself while Vegeta and Goku retreated to the past. If this isn't evidence enough of Trunk's superior intellect to his farther, look at how he learned the Evil Containment Wave...... Off of a god damn TH-cam video via Piccolo's teaching! Oh but wait! There's more! Trunks ALSO not only learned the Spirit Bomb from Goku, but he also learned how to channel it into his sword and destroy Merged Zamasu's body despite it being one half immortal. So you can't sit there and say Vegeta is a smarter fighter than Trunks, because CLEARLY he is not! So I'm of this opinion that Trunks would stalemate his father if they ever came to serious blows. Vegeta is just too rush happy! And I'm not including the manga here, cause Vegeta has a crap ton of character development by the time he achieves Ultra Ego. He could very likely out class Future Trunks by that point. But not during Z or Super. I am more inclined to disregard what characters say, because more times than not, they're just simply mistaken with their assumptions. It's a classic case of "you don't know until you know."
Vegeta took a total of strikes and was knocked unconscious. Trunks went back and forth and even took strikes from Cell to distract him while Krillin got Vegeta to safety. Trunks was stronger than Vegeta in more than just raw strength.
*Trunks was obviously stronger than Vegeta, fighting Cell along time while Vegeta was no match for Cell. But this video raises the question., Could Vegeta kill Cell if hell hit his whole body with the Final Flash? While Trunks fought with Cell and floored him and all. Vegeta uses all his power to destroy Cell, and did he almost kill him?, While Trunks could not. Cell & Krillin and 16 and Trunks say Trunks is stronger than Vegeta.* *I thought he was gonna talk about the Cell Jr Fight. It seemed like Vegeta was stronger at that time.*
Strength? Trunks. Efficiency? Vegeta. Perfect Cell even told Trunks that he (Trunks) was stronger than himself but too slow. Even MSSJ Goku & Gohan weren't stronger than Perfect Cell. Trunks was stated to be. By Perfect Cell no less. Trunks is stronger. Edit - Also, if Vegeta was a bigger threat than Trunks, then Super Perfect Cell (upon IT back to Earth after killing Goku) would've targeted Vegeta first. He didn't. He targeted Trunks. I was aware of the direction this video was going in the first 2 minutes. Just constant dick riding Vegeta the entire time. Trunks even surprised Vegeta when Vegeta was letting Semi Perfect Cell absorb 18. Everything else you said in this video was a bunch of what-ifs & opinions. Side note - you know people are desperate when they bust out the Daizhenshu because they can't get their evidence straight from the source & have to allude to guidebooks that weren't even written by the author. Also, the premise of what you say in the video is different than what you're asking in the title. In the title you ask Grade 2 Vegeta vs Grade 3 Trunks strength-wise but then in the video you ask about a hypothetical Ultra Vegeta lmao. You don't even make any sense dude.
Vegeta is a confusing one isnt he. And he doesnt do himself any favours I dont think he was hes always held back and he wasnt aiming to be stronger then cell but just one of the andriod absorbed or not. Were as trunks was like i need to defeat cell and even gohan and goku And vegeta ssj2 buu saga with or without majin unlocked. But i think because vegeta is clever he didnt unlock grade 3, same he didnt go ssj3 but made his ssj2 stronger in battle of gods against beerus
well, if krillin managed to notice, then theres no way vegeta didnt, especially since he has been with trunks for a full year. also yes i believe he did go grade 3 when throwing the final flash
They as in who? Krillian you really put stock in what Krillian says? 1 I highly doubt Vegeta was unaware of it he can sense ki from very long distances. It was meely stated because that's what those characters thought, in other words it's self analysis and speculation. 3 Vegeta was definitely stronger than Trunks
@@hakaishinyt2679What does any of that have to do with who is stronger? So Vegeta chose not to learn or utilize the form due to drawbacks, right? Right. Therefore Trunks is still stronger because he did choose to utilize a stronger form. The title of the video is "who is stronger" not "who would win". And even then I believe Trunks would still win.
@@hakaishinyt2679 The original title of this video, before it was changed by OP, was - "Is Grade 2 Vegeta stronger than Grade 3 Trunks". And the answer is no. As for who would win in a hypothetical Grade 3 fight? That's up for debate. Trunks did surprise Vegeta & blast him away during the Semi Perfect Cell scuffle. But Vegeta wasn't powered up either. It's safe to assume it could go either way. Trunks was a SSJ for a lot longer than Vegeta & has fought just as hard throughout his life. The only reason I'd give the edge to Trunks is because of what Vegeta says in the Saiyan Saga concerning Gohan. And that is that hybrids are stronger & have more natural talent. And again, when Cell returned after killing Goku, he killed Trunks first. Not Vegeta. Trunks. He went for the next biggest threat after Gohan.
But Vegetas Ego is what makes him lose the atcual fight. Future Trunks never hold back so even if Vegeta beats him Trunks would just attack him from behind or kill him if necessary. Multiple villians have already done this to Vegeta lmao might as well Future Trunks to it too 😂
wrong becuase vegeta did beat cell in that buff form. the thing is goku never seen cell ever until after he turn into perfect cell after vegeta let him absorb 18. so goku never knew cell power level how did he know cell was gunna win vs that form. did goku already predict that vegeta was going to let cell absorb 18? did goku predict that cell was going to absorb 17? idk how goku has these weird prediction when vegeta beat cell but not perfect cell. another thing is goku could have destroy cell before he even trainformed into perfect cell or semi perfect cell. goku after he trained for the android saga was already stronger than android 18 and 17 or as strong as android 16, but the heart attack made him severely weaker vs the first android. after goku healed from the heart attack that should've killed him. you see him test his power when he woke up and he was so strong already but we don't know how strong goku was after the heart attack heal. he could've beat cell and 17 and 18 right there. when piccolo fused with kami that was before goku even woke up. so goku woke up after he he must have been even stronger then piccolo fused with kami. after that goku went straight to the time chamber without even testing his new awakened skill. after time chamber he was severely stronger because heart attack heal plus time hcmaber training got him leaps and bounds above every one that he was on par or stronger than perfect cell. idk I think goku could've ended the android/cell saga after he woke up he was super stronger
You missed the episode when Goku instant-teleport himself to the battle field to save Tien Vs Semi-perfect Cell. He did meet Cell before he absorbed C18 even though they didn't fight.
Did he though? Vegeta blew off almost half of Cells body with the final flash. Trunks didn't really damage cell at all in the anime and is completely unable to even land a single hit on Cell in the manga. If Cell, Goku and even a green trunks can figure out how to turn grade 3 I find it hard to believe Vegeta couldn't, especially as Piccolo refers to Vegeta as a fighting genious in the same arc. This is the same guy who figured out how to turn SSG without the ritual.
@@emmanuel4989 cell stood there and let vegeta hit him though. Other than that vegeta couldn’t touch him and every time cell hit vegeta he Danm near knocked him out.
@@JJJJ-he8bz Because Vegeta refused to use the grade 3 transformation which is more durable and powerful than the Grade 2 transformation but has too many drawbacks. Trunks only appeared to be doing better because he was using the grade 3 transformation and Cell was toying with him, we see later on in the fight that Cell is able to dodge all of Trunks attacks easily and humiliate him while still holding back his full power. When Trunks was in Grade 2 Cell completely no sold all of his and krillins attacks.
@@emmanuel4989he was doing better. Cell says Trunks is stronger than him. Trunks was stronger than vegeta , If vegeta truly knew how to use ussj he would use it to tank cells blows but he got laid out. Also cell targets Trunks when he shoots the beam after he blows up and comes back, making it seem purposeful because he was the strongest. Yes grade 3 is very slow but he was the strongest.
@@kaddindefiant Do you honestly believe that Trunks who was green and inexperienced figured out how to turn Grade 3 and Vegeta who Piccolo refers to as a fighting genious couldn't? Cell said "Even Vegeta figured it out, so why can't you" in regards to why Vegeta doesn't try Grade 3 vs Cell and Trunks said something about Vegeta could have got stronger but realised the forms limitations. Also why on earth would Vegeta use Grade 3 to tank Cells blows when the form consumes too much energy? His only hope of winning was to save most of his energy for the final flash and trick Cell into taking the attack head on. When that failed he knew they were all screwed.
Everybody throwing up numbers and stupid language, when the answer is simple. Trunks is half as strong as Vegeta, because Trunks is half Vegeta. You are either [perfect], or not Vegeta.
I think it's completely logical trunks surpassed Vegeta by a mega margin, trunks is what 22 years old and achieved ssj way earlier in his life with no gravity training, so what happens when he finally does, he far outpaces Vegetas slow azz growth needing 500 times gravity and mega zenkais just to get a bit stronger than a trunks that wasn't truly training hard core; sorry Vegeta fanboys, he wasn't on Trunks' level.
@@youngrydah4374 Atcually Future Trunks has way more potential then Vegeta he could of surpassed him in the time chamber but he decided not too to let Vegeta fight with Cell.
Cell said he let trunks hit him to play a game with him, so that doesn't mean anything. Vegeta on the other hand via Final Flash did significant damage to part of his body.
Yeah vegeta was stronger than trunks in grade 2 Trunks who got super Saiyan grade 4 at cell games who went back in to his future to take out future androids and future cell is equal to grade 4 vegeta
@@cavalrystyles8776 ofc there is a lot of evideances be speach of cell you can realize that did you read manga watch anime ? Why cell sad is that even vegeta is weaker then he is cell jr. "Even vegeta " and your fateher goku not Trunks but first is Vegeta it s not like he is a lot stronger but he is .
Say what you want about grade 3 but Trunks took 10x the amount of direct hits without getting KOd thats more than Vegeta lasted. Vegeta got 1 shot by perfect cell. Trunks at least got some hits in.
In the Anime. He's unable to land a single hit on cell in the manga. Grade 3 is more durable but takes up too much energy and makes you much slower, so the disadvantages heavily outweighs the positives.
@@emmanuel4989 The manga in this case of DBZ isnt relevant, Akira was still very much in creative control of his Dragon Ball property, so I believe the addition was added in by Akira, alot of stuff he added in the anime seems like it makes alot more sense than the manga, the manga was trash alot of times, just stuff happened, then no context that made sense, the anime provided something that made alot more sense. I say Trunks being ALOT stronger than Vegeta makes alot more sense, he started out alot younger than Vegeta when he was first introduced already having reached SSJ, even younger than Goku who had just achieved SSJ maybe 1 year earlier, I say Vegeta is lucky Trunks never got 3 years of training in 500 times gravity, he would have really been behind in the times.
@@xarbinchaoticneutral1785 Even if were just talking anime vegeta blowing off almost half of cells body is still more significant than anything trunks did.
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Final Flash was exactly what I thought of with Vegeta properly utilizing USSJ form. This is how it surprised Cell.
Uh. No. Just because it was animated that way doesn't mean Vegeta was Grade 3. That's like saying Goku went MUI against Broly because one frame of animation during his SSB transformation looked like MUI.
If Vegeta went Grade 3, the anime would have announced it. The point of using Grade 3 was too highlight its shortcomings. That wasn't illustrated whatsoever in the Vegeta fight. People think they're clever reading between the lines when in reality they're just using their head-canon to justify their made up opinions.
Interesting theory
@@FurbyParade226why?
Most of the second paragraph wasn't needed.
He didn't even present this as fact, he just commented. No need for you to be condescending
@@chrishosey7535 Almost all of this video is being presented as fact & everybody is agreeing with it. Condescending, maybe. But when pointing out the facts gets me nowhere I have to resort to being a tad more assertive.
@FurbyParade226 that's the whole point. It was literally animated & illustrated for way more than one frame. Please explain why his body kept expanding & contracting while he was powering up final flash. He kept pulling extra power from the ussj form.
I just wanted to point out that there might be some narrative implications that point towards Trunks being weaker than Vegeta as well. When Trunks and Vegeta emerge from the time chamber Trunks falsely believes that he has surpassed his father with a Super Saiyan transformation that his father could not achieve.
Contrast this with Goku and Gohan were Gohan falsely believes to be weaker than his own father when in actuality he has already surpassed him and has the potential to archieve a Super Saiyan transformation that his father couldn't.
I always thought that this was a deliberate parallel to highlight Goku and Vegeta's respective relationships with their sons as well as their parental styles, Goku mainly focused on his son in the time chamber whereas Vegeta only focused on himself.
Facts!! Great eye!!
That's actually a very solid observation
👏👏👏
Which is stupid considering trunks is a half Saiyin also
@@frankiejones7858Well Trunks managed to achieve super saiyan 2 on his own facing off against Majin Buu in a waste land of a planet then achieve a rage form that no other saiyans have attained. I’d say Trunks is on the same potential level as Gohan but since he ain’t the son of the main character then obviously his potential will never really shine that much
I think Vegeta being in grade 3 while doing his final flash makes the most sense, and i hadn't even thought of that. The raw power itself had Cell doubting himself and took off half his body. Tbh, it really isn't the first time we've seen people power up their bodies in order to do a blast. A good example would be Master Roshi, back in early Dragon Ball, doing the Kamehameha. He would have to power up into his buff form, which maximized his power in order to create the powerful blast.
In the trunks vs cell fight, cell mocks trunks about the power boost and comments vegeta already figured it out. All you need to know.
Well one walked away and the other was carried away. I think Trunks made the better decision.
@@sky-oq5mrwell yeah coz cell showed pity to trunks as he literally killed trunks in another universe. Live future trunks but vegeta was the better fighter though he's still 3rd behind gohan and goku
@@ssk58607 Are you drunk? Cell don't give AF about no trunks. He pity Vegeta, just instant ko didn't even play around with em to not hurt his pride. Trunks actually hurt cell
Bruh trunks was definitely stronger I don't even understand why anyone would think otherwise
@@Chille10its pretty obvious he wasnt but go off
I didn't know this was a debate. Its clearly been proving by Cell and Trunks conversation that Vegeta could go grade 3 but choose not to because of the speed
I was looking for a comment like that, this is my problem with this video too. Vegeta could do everything Trunks did and more, this was supposed to be clear. This shouldnt have been a question.
Saiyan Scholar did a video on that Final Flash more or less confirming what you said about him harnessing grade 3 to concentrate the attack. The comparison you made to Goku killing Yakon was a really great example!
It's also interesting how Vegeta couldn't master Super Saiyan as a base state to achieve grade 4 like Goku and Gohan. Too much rage for him to be calm in it, I guess? I'm of the opinion fpssj/grade 4 is simply the same potential & overall multiplier as grade 3, only that it lacks all the weaknesses of grade 3 and can maintain itself efficiently. This is how ssj2 became unlockable by turning ssj into a calm base state for another anger transformation.
Thank you and oh damn I didn’t know he made that video. I’ll have to check it out!
When i first watched the scene nearly 2 decades ago I thought this was implied when he charged up against semi-perfect cell and slimmed out before bull rushing him to the gut.
Trunks also did this though when trying to stop cell from getting 18.
I'm not too sure how you only have 1.15k subscribers! This is such in depth content!!! Keep up this awesome work!
Thank you! Means a lot 💯
I totally agree that Vegeta used grade III to perform that Final Flash, for something like an all or nothing beam attack the form would make sense like Kaio-ken
Very accurate explanation in my opinion. Trunks lack of experience in combat really let him down in this contest.
Thank you! Exactly!
Vegeta would win in a fight between him and trunks even just considering his character he has a bigger drive than trunks do when it comes to training and fighting in general Vegeta’s experience would be an advantage over trunks, although trunks did gain about the same amount of power as Vegeta I think since they are relatively close in power at this point in the series, experience would play a big part, you could tell this by Vegeta knowing the drawbacks of ssj grade 3 opposed to trunks.
this is future Trunks who doesn't play around he would be a problem for Vegeta for sure he is around the same power if he had stayed in the present he would most likely have been stronger than adult Gohan and Vegeta from training
@@SuperbMoves yea you can say as far as finishing off his enemies he doesn’t play but as far as having a good training regime i don’t really know if he’s the best at that, Trunks is really the type of person to finish the job I see him becoming like Gohan in the fact that if there is no threat there is no reason for training. But then again I’m pretty sure Vegeta won’t approve of him slacking off so he’ll prob end up training.
@@westonnwaimo4002half saiyans don't have the thirst for battle so you're probably right lol though future trunks will not slack off considering how messes up his timeline is, and since he's the only warrior they got
Always thought they were either even or Vegeta was slightly stronger.
Yeah I think Vegeta definitely edges him out!
Vegeta's battle tactics:
1. Bum rush a super powerful android with infinite stamina
2. Let the decently powerful villain attain their perfect form
3. Fight Goku, make Buu
This yall tactician? 💀
Yea Future Trunks is atcually smarter then Vegeta and thats why I think he wins in this arc.
@LuarIbriqi-qf4fh Vegeta would wait till Trunks pumps so much ki into his muscles that Vegeta just gets absolutely cooked. Plus while Vegeta is like "you can't beat me, you're just my seed" Trunks will be charging his heat dome attack 🗿
@@oceanicblaze-o_b-9752 Yea Vegetas Giant Ego is how villians beat him most of the time so Future Trunks can do the same thing.
@@LuarIbriqi-qf4fh exactlyy
Sooooo, when watching Vegeta power up against Cell one Android absorbed, Vegeta was getting bigger but then slimmed and powered down. I knew then he knew that he was getting too bulky.
Yeah I imagined he though imperfect cell didn't require more powering up but it makes sense that he powered down for speed. Poor trunks isn't an experienced fighter like goku or vegeta to figure it out
He never tried for SS3 because he knew the draw back too…
Both Vegita and Goku both knew grade 3 has more power but would slow them down, vegita chose not to use grade 3 because he calls it a useless form plenty of times even in Super👍
Super isn't canon to Z and is irrelevant here
@@sky-oq5mr super timeline is right after🧐...the whole series got Retcon, just like the manga and the last movie
@@sky-oq5mr As it stands, Super is the canon continuation of Z. And with the rumors about an entire reboot of the series called Dragonball Reborn, they might just further solidify this fact.
@@solaris218 First off, Super isn't an continuation in the slightest. It is happening during Z not after, Z takes place after. The only continuation that's shown to be canon to at least the Z anime is Dragonball GT which was shown on the last episode of Dbz. Dragonball super does not have the key moments that happened in Z nor does it want them. It erases, rewrites and scraps so much from Db and Dbz that it is IMPOSSIBLE to be canon. I don't know if it's due to Akira not caring or watching over it like he did with the GT makers or not but this is what happened. Toyotaro and Toei have made dbs into something that they wanted. The story does not fit at all making it Non canon. You can't canonize something that literally is impossible to piece into the story. Its as if someone said bleach the the canon begining of Dragonball. That's how bad super has changed things
@@sky-oq5mrcope
Heck Cell even said that Vegeta could have done it just wasn't foolish enough to use it.
100%
Id say due to Trunks greater hybrid potential, that Trunks would be *physically* stronger, but Vegeta's experience and tactics would overwhelm Trunks.
Good point, but I still think Vegeta, in this arc, is stronger
Awesome vid my guy💯🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thank you!
I always liked the idea that Grade 3 was a 2.25 times boost. The concept that it's technically even stronger than Super Saiyan 2 further sells home the point that giant muscles and big numbers aren't everything.
well the idea is wrong half of grade 4 ssj gokus power was above ussj trunks
Change that pfp
Change ur gay pfp
Fggt
@@sirjanus3954change that pfp
Trunks is younger and almost as strong as vegeta... Vegeta must be proud of
This has never been a debate.
Only 900 subs and the quality of content is this good wow. I'm subbing and I don't say this a lot. Keep it up!
Oh wow, thanks man. Fr means a lot. More to come for sure!!
The reasoning tracks but it would have made for better story telling in my opinion if trunks had the greater latent potential and actually had the better shot at defeating cell despite vegeta’s bravado and combat experience
Nah. That would just undermine vegetas prowess even more. Stop sucking half breeds
I believe cell sensed that vegeta could go up a notch in raw strength which is why he schooled trunks that vegeta knew about this as well. The Dialogue between cell and trunks is the writers way of telling us that vegeta knew better.
You actually know how to power scale !! 100% accurate
Thank you brotha
Krillin is about to tell Vegeta that Trunks is stronger than him, even in Grade 2, but Trunks stops him.
Trunks is stronger. There’s a reason Cell killed him.
Nah lol if vegeta stood there and powered up then he'd be just as strong or stronger imo but he didn't so we can't know
People are just delusional man😂
Noooo, Goku showed he could go passed SSJ2 when he fought Yakon or whatever, that's when Vegeta knew he NEEDED Babidi's magic. Vegeta saw Goku had an extra gear that he himself did not posses, even after 7 years of training
Actually you’re right, it was higher than “normal super saiyan 2”. I should’ve elaborated better. Thanks
Confirmed what I felt good video
Thank you!
Vegeta knew about the grade 3 he just didn’t use it because he knew the weaknesses the form had
Final flash ussj energy is honestly perfectly plausible!
Yeah he was. Vegeta could go Grade 3 or at least knew about it but he was smart enough to see its weaknesses. Some say Vegeta didn't know because he didn't say anything but he did know. When Goku and Gohan leave the chamber Trunks asks if they would transform to a higher form when they start fighting but Vegeta scolds him for not learning from his mistakes and not realizing there is more to a fight then raw power showing he clearly knew Trunks used Grade 3.
Cell was holding back a whole lot he washed vegeta could’ve washed trucks too I do believe trucks was a good bit stronger
It is possible for that extra ten months vegeta did get grade 3 but prob not. I mean he got an extra whole year in HTC and came bag with not that big of a power up. It was the training vegeta had to power up each Tim he began training everyday. Goku and gohon trained smarter by keeping ssj form thus using less stamina making training more advantages
100% agree. Nice vid
Thank you man
i thought this was obvious, it clearly says multiple different ways (Goku, Cell, Trunks)that Vegeta discovered the form too or 99% would have, but didn't use it.
Exactly
Great analysis
Vegeta didn’t like SS grade 3 because it makes him too slow? That was years ago when I herd that.
That’s never stated, but implied he knew the drawback
Vegeta wasn't trying to be a dad to his already grown son 🤷. He let future Trunks do his thing. He let Trunks learn on his own. Btw Vegeta obviously transformed for that Final Flash
Technically future trunks isn't his son, he's the son of another timelines version of himself.
@@Citizen_Nappa23everyone knows this. Vegeta still treats him as his son
If he transformed for the Final Flash then why was Trunks not impressed & still under the impression that he was stronger than his Dad?
Trunks was scared. Trunks thought Vegeta was gon destroy the whole planet. Watch that episode again.
"MY BABY BOY"
Obviously, because grade 3 in itself is just a buff extension of grade 2, so by default, vegeta could go grade 3.
I wont argue that Vegeta would beat Trunks in a fight, but I felt the topic is more about "Is Vegeta playing down Trunks's strength?"
The manga and anime both said that Vegeta could but didn’t by trunks. But vegeta definitely did not turn grade 3 for the final flash. If he did trunks would have said something about that. Cuz after he shot the final flash he was still saying he was stronger than his father
Yo a fellow Tyler talking about DB🕺
Yooooo
Yes. Next question.
Another great video. Spot on bro. Like ssj3 that burns too much energy. Vegeta went straight to ssj red form skipping ssj3
Thank you bro! Vegeta is a lot smarter than people think
@@Neverend117 for you Goku has more won or lost if we count all these fights db dbz dbgt and dbs
Better Dragon Ball content than 1/2 the other creators out there. It’s not about opinion, it’s about creating a discussion. & you did that very well… BRAVO, subbed!
Thank you my guy, means a lot. I’m definitely trying!
Question: what about the "hey, frieza!" thing?
What’s the hey Freeza thing? I don’t recall
@@Neverend117You know? Like that time frieza came and trunks shows up and took out frieza and the others with ease? Was vegeta even stronger than them that time?
@@crimsonzone8984 oh lol well definitely not, Vegeta couldn’t even go super saiyan then
Ironically tho Cell did the same against Gohan later in the series and he was humbled more than Trunks
All that matters is that Goku solos
Vegeta held his own against Cell WITHOUT THE BULK FORM while Trunks couldn’t. Vegeta was stronger, he already passed his level & realized it after cell whooped him for going bulk
In the anime Vegeta litterlay except for the final flash wich Perfect Cell didn't even try to dodge didn't even make a single hit against Cell meanwhile Grade 3 Trunks actually managed to get solid hits on Cell and was more of a challenge to Perfect Cell. Yea thats the real difference.
Had to comment before the video was over to say that vegeta on multiple occasions let his ego cloud his battle Knowledge in fights. As smart and calculating as you say he is, that pride is his downfall.
Edit: laughingstockmedia should take notes on this video. This is how you do a commentary style video on DBZ
That’s a fair argument, but more times than not, Vegeta is a strategic thinker in battle and usually aware of power gaps.
And while I’m glad you enjoyed the commentary 100%, LSM is a beast in my opinion
I’ll save you guys time, no he’s not, trunks in brute strength is stronger
Vegeta could go grade 3 if he wanted. Vegeta would just out pace trunks until he wasted too much energy on grade 3 and beat him once he wasted too much energy.
@@diddleswright2288lol, in the dream world Vegeta couldn't even keep pace with cell how was he going to fare with an even slower form?
@@diddleswright2288Unfortunately the title of the video is "who is *stronger*" .. Trunks is the winner of that debate.
Krillin got the highten ability from the grand namkian
I got Nice burgers from him too!
0:00 Yes vegeta even stated it that he was stronger when they pulled up on cell
Exactly
I think u asked the question the wrong way. Ultra Trunks was stronger than super Vegeta. Would trunks still be stronger if Vegeta went Ultra? Hell no. I don’t think trunks was ever stronger. He just boosted his power a lil bit more than Vegeta to try and fight Cell. With my scale, Vegeta and Trunks being around 12M battle power would put Ultra Trunks close to 1T. Vegeta would be around 700M and would clap Trunks because like u said, he was not the tactician Vegeta was.
I think their story line, was meant to be the opposite of Goku and Gohan, Trunks went out of his way to show he was stronger than Vegeta when he never was. Gohan, never believed he was stronger than Goku until he was fighting Cell.
In the manga Trunks said he purposely didnt surpass Vegeta while training.
I thought he said he purposely didn’t show Vegeta not that he purposely didn’t try to surpass him. That’s why he waited until Vegeta was knocked out. Either way, i took the statement as him saying what he said, Vegeta broke the ssj wall, and he broke the next one, not knowing Vegeta had already broken through it. He thought he was stronger. If we didn’t learn anything about Trunks, he was wrong way more than he was right lmao
Of course he is he just didn't use that form cuz like goku he understood its weakness
🫡
vegeta is a little bit stronger, but, trunks is more effective in terms of getting things done, remember "super vegeta"
We agree
Hmm. I can't disagree with the conclusion that you arrived at here, but I CAN disagree with what evidence you provided to do so.
You say that Vegeta is a smarter fighter than Trunks. Well.... That's highly debatable. Vegeta has overestimated his own power a lot more than Trunks has.
He was out smarted by Goku, Krillin, and Gohan when he first arrived at Earth. He then got screwed up by the Ginyu Force on Namek. Frieza did a number on him as well.
And this isn't even typical battle powers just simply being better than his. Vegeta had the advantage in a lot of these encounters, yet he rushed in headlong and carelessly as he always does. And we see that he still hasn't learned his lesson when he's manipulated by Cell to allow him to absorb 18. Then beyond that, despite hearing how incredibly strong Majin Buu was, he STILL charged Buu and even detonated himself to no avail. I love my boy Vegeta but I think there's far too many sources of material to confirm that he is NOT a smart fighter.
And then there's Trunks. This one video highlighted his first and only mistake throughout the entire run of Z and Super. When Future Trunks first arrived on the scene, there was no wasted motion with Mech Frieza. He demolished that entire invasion all by himself. Vegeta has never done anything like that, and I mean like EVER. Then you had Trunks accurately anticipating the androids and how to deal with them albeit the fact that there were more of them. Skip ahead past the Cell mistake, and Trunks didn't do a lot. It's insinuated that he encountered Majin Buu and had no issue thwarting Buu's revival. During the Goku Black arc, Trunks is smart enough to go to the past and recruit the Z fighters to help him. Again.... Vegeta never would have done this. You may argue pride.... I argue sheer stupidity! At some point you have to be intelligent enough to set aside your pride and do what you need to in order to survive. Again in the Goku Black arc we see Trunks OUTLAST his father. It was just Trunks and Goku fending off Zamasu and Goku Black for a very long time (despite the fact that Trunks didn't have access to Super Saiyan Blue!) Trunks then achieved a form that neither Goku or Vegeta have access to. A form that allowed him to take on Goku Black and Zamasu by himself while Vegeta and Goku retreated to the past. If this isn't evidence enough of Trunk's superior intellect to his farther, look at how he learned the Evil Containment Wave...... Off of a god damn TH-cam video via Piccolo's teaching! Oh but wait! There's more! Trunks ALSO not only learned the Spirit Bomb from Goku, but he also learned how to channel it into his sword and destroy Merged Zamasu's body despite it being one half immortal.
So you can't sit there and say Vegeta is a smarter fighter than Trunks, because CLEARLY he is not! So I'm of this opinion that Trunks would stalemate his father if they ever came to serious blows. Vegeta is just too rush happy! And I'm not including the manga here, cause Vegeta has a crap ton of character development by the time he achieves Ultra Ego. He could very likely out class Future Trunks by that point. But not during Z or Super. I am more inclined to disregard what characters say, because more times than not, they're just simply mistaken with their assumptions. It's a classic case of "you don't know until you know."
Trunks was stronger. This was shown when Cell became perfect.
Vegeta took a total of strikes and was knocked unconscious. Trunks went back and forth and even took strikes from Cell to distract him while Krillin got Vegeta to safety. Trunks was stronger than Vegeta in more than just raw strength.
*Trunks was obviously stronger than Vegeta, fighting Cell along time while Vegeta was no match for Cell. But this video raises the question., Could Vegeta kill Cell if hell hit his whole body with the Final Flash? While Trunks fought with Cell and floored him and all. Vegeta uses all his power to destroy Cell, and did he almost kill him?, While Trunks could not. Cell & Krillin and 16 and Trunks say Trunks is stronger than Vegeta.*
*I thought he was gonna talk about the Cell Jr Fight. It seemed like Vegeta was stronger at that time.*
I like Future Trunks way more than Vegeta, but Current Vegeta is stronger than SSR Trunks.
Strength? Trunks.
Efficiency? Vegeta.
Perfect Cell even told Trunks that he (Trunks) was stronger than himself but too slow. Even MSSJ Goku & Gohan weren't stronger than Perfect Cell. Trunks was stated to be. By Perfect Cell no less. Trunks is stronger.
Edit - Also, if Vegeta was a bigger threat than Trunks, then Super Perfect Cell (upon IT back to Earth after killing Goku) would've targeted Vegeta first. He didn't. He targeted Trunks.
I was aware of the direction this video was going in the first 2 minutes. Just constant dick riding Vegeta the entire time. Trunks even surprised Vegeta when Vegeta was letting Semi Perfect Cell absorb 18. Everything else you said in this video was a bunch of what-ifs & opinions. Side note - you know people are desperate when they bust out the Daizhenshu because they can't get their evidence straight from the source & have to allude to guidebooks that weren't even written by the author.
Also, the premise of what you say in the video is different than what you're asking in the title. In the title you ask Grade 2 Vegeta vs Grade 3 Trunks strength-wise but then in the video you ask about a hypothetical Ultra Vegeta lmao. You don't even make any sense dude.
Exactly
Fr
Vegeta is a confusing one isnt he. And he doesnt do himself any favours
I dont think he was hes always held back and he wasnt aiming to be stronger then cell but just one of the andriod absorbed or not. Were as trunks was like i need to defeat cell and even gohan and goku
And vegeta ssj2 buu saga with or without majin unlocked.
But i think because vegeta is clever he didnt unlock grade 3, same he didnt go ssj3 but made his ssj2 stronger in battle of gods against beerus
well, if krillin managed to notice, then theres no way vegeta didnt, especially since he has been with trunks for a full year. also yes i believe he did go grade 3 when throwing the final flash
Exactly. Even more of a point!
😂😂😂😂😂 his biggest brain move is when he let cell power up , or he just switched sides in the boo saga 💀 prince of L
I would say smarter lol
If vegeta does the same transformation as trunks he is always slightly stronger. SO yes.
This 💯
Vegeta takes the W a thousand times over when it comes to Trunks.
trunks was only regular supersaiyan when vegeta fought cell, trunks is stronger
SSJ Grade 3 only good when tanking hits or defending but not for dueling
I don’t get why they referred to cell as it in the manga
I mean they said trunks was stronger in the anime🤷🏽♀️
They lied bro
They as in who? Krillian you really put stock in what Krillian says? 1 I highly doubt Vegeta was unaware of it he can sense ki from very long distances. It was meely stated because that's what those characters thought, in other words it's self analysis and speculation. 3 Vegeta was definitely stronger than Trunks
He had no reason to hide the form especially when he was desperate and back peddling
@@hakaishinyt2679What does any of that have to do with who is stronger? So Vegeta chose not to learn or utilize the form due to drawbacks, right? Right. Therefore Trunks is still stronger because he did choose to utilize a stronger form. The title of the video is "who is stronger" not "who would win". And even then I believe Trunks would still win.
@@hakaishinyt2679 The original title of this video, before it was changed by OP, was - "Is Grade 2 Vegeta stronger than Grade 3 Trunks". And the answer is no.
As for who would win in a hypothetical Grade 3 fight? That's up for debate. Trunks did surprise Vegeta & blast him away during the Semi Perfect Cell scuffle. But Vegeta wasn't powered up either. It's safe to assume it could go either way. Trunks was a SSJ for a lot longer than Vegeta & has fought just as hard throughout his life. The only reason I'd give the edge to Trunks is because of what Vegeta says in the Saiyan Saga concerning Gohan. And that is that hybrids are stronger & have more natural talent. And again, when Cell returned after killing Goku, he killed Trunks first. Not Vegeta. Trunks. He went for the next biggest threat after Gohan.
Vegeta would win from being smarter, not stronger. If they charged up their strongest attack and launched em, trunks would be the superior one.
But Vegetas Ego is what makes him lose the atcual fight. Future Trunks never hold back so even if Vegeta beats him Trunks would just attack him from behind or kill him if necessary. Multiple villians have already done this to Vegeta lmao might as well Future Trunks to it too 😂
wrong becuase vegeta did beat cell in that buff form. the thing is goku never seen cell ever until after he turn into perfect cell after vegeta let him absorb 18. so goku never knew cell power level how did he know cell was gunna win vs that form. did goku already predict that vegeta was going to let cell absorb 18? did goku predict that cell was going to absorb 17? idk how goku has these weird prediction when vegeta beat cell but not perfect cell. another thing is goku could have destroy cell before he even trainformed into perfect cell or semi perfect cell. goku after he trained for the android saga was already stronger than android 18 and 17 or as strong as android 16, but the heart attack made him severely weaker vs the first android. after goku healed from the heart attack that should've killed him. you see him test his power when he woke up and he was so strong already but we don't know how strong goku was after the heart attack heal. he could've beat cell and 17 and 18 right there. when piccolo fused with kami that was before goku even woke up. so goku woke up after he he must have been even stronger then piccolo fused with kami. after that goku went straight to the time chamber without even testing his new awakened skill. after time chamber he was severely stronger because heart attack heal plus time hcmaber training got him leaps and bounds above every one that he was on par or stronger than perfect cell. idk I think goku could've ended the android/cell saga after he woke up he was super stronger
You missed the episode when Goku instant-teleport himself to the battle field to save Tien Vs Semi-perfect Cell. He did meet Cell before he absorbed C18 even though they didn't fight.
Wish that they kept the Future trunks....
Same
Short answer; yes, its the goku and vegeta saga since namek.
I dont know its hard to say because trunks put up a way better fight. Cell put vegeta down in 3 blows.
Did he though? Vegeta blew off almost half of Cells body with the final flash. Trunks didn't really damage cell at all in the anime and is completely unable to even land a single hit on Cell in the manga. If Cell, Goku and even a green trunks can figure out how to turn grade 3 I find it hard to believe Vegeta couldn't, especially as Piccolo refers to Vegeta as a fighting genious in the same arc. This is the same guy who figured out how to turn SSG without the ritual.
@@emmanuel4989 cell stood there and let vegeta hit him though. Other than that vegeta couldn’t touch him and every time cell hit vegeta he Danm near knocked him out.
@@JJJJ-he8bz Because Vegeta refused to use the grade 3 transformation which is more durable and powerful than the Grade 2 transformation but has too many drawbacks. Trunks only appeared to be doing better because he was using the grade 3 transformation and Cell was toying with him, we see later on in the fight that Cell is able to dodge all of Trunks attacks easily and humiliate him while still holding back his full power. When Trunks was in Grade 2 Cell completely no sold all of his and krillins attacks.
@@emmanuel4989he was doing better. Cell says Trunks is stronger than him. Trunks was stronger than vegeta , If vegeta truly knew how to use ussj he would use it to tank cells blows but he got laid out. Also cell targets Trunks when he shoots the beam after he blows up and comes back, making it seem purposeful because he was the strongest. Yes grade 3 is very slow but he was the strongest.
@@kaddindefiant Do you honestly believe that Trunks who was green and inexperienced figured out how to turn Grade 3 and Vegeta who Piccolo refers to as a fighting genious couldn't? Cell said "Even Vegeta figured it out, so why can't you" in regards to why Vegeta doesn't try Grade 3 vs Cell and Trunks said something about Vegeta could have got stronger but realised the forms limitations. Also why on earth would Vegeta use Grade 3 to tank Cells blows when the form consumes too much energy? His only hope of winning was to save most of his energy for the final flash and trick Cell into taking the attack head on. When that failed he knew they were all screwed.
Trunks is (stronger) than vegeta in cell saga but he wouldn't win against vegeta. All I'm basing this on is what we actually see.
Akira already said he was stronger than trunks. 🤦♂️ no debate at all
he is dumb to not retract his tail around his belt during the saiyan saga.
Trunks was definitely stronger.
Everybody throwing up numbers and stupid language, when the answer is simple. Trunks is half as strong as Vegeta, because Trunks is half Vegeta. You are either [perfect], or not Vegeta.
Based
the answer is yes
I think it's completely logical trunks surpassed Vegeta by a mega margin, trunks is what 22 years old and achieved ssj way earlier in his life with no gravity training, so what happens when he finally does, he far outpaces Vegetas slow azz growth needing 500 times gravity and mega zenkais just to get a bit stronger than a trunks that wasn't truly training hard core; sorry Vegeta fanboys, he wasn't on Trunks' level.
You trippin
@@youngrydah4374 Atcually Future Trunks has way more potential then Vegeta he could of surpassed him in the time chamber but he decided not too to let Vegeta fight with Cell.
No Vegeta barely landed a hit against
Trunks did a better job pushing cell back
Trunks didn't land a single hit on Perfect Cell in the manga tho
Cell said he let trunks hit him to play a game with him, so that doesn't mean anything. Vegeta on the other hand via Final Flash did significant damage to part of his body.
@@FrankLeeYoungthe anime he did and Akira could have easily omitted that at the time
@@Citizen_Nappa23ol, when did he say that
Yes easily
Yeah vegeta was stronger than trunks in grade 2
Trunks who got super Saiyan grade 4 at cell games who went back in to his future to take out future androids and future cell is equal to grade 4 vegeta
no man trunks would destroy vegeta in cell arc
Easy answer vegeta
Trunks was never equall too vegeta XD he was like in middle way of piccolo power and vegeta power
There is no shred of evidence that suggests that they were not equal. They were both exactly on par with the cell jrs.
@@cavalrystyles8776 ofc there is a lot of evideances be speach of cell you can realize that did you read manga watch anime ? Why cell sad is that even vegeta is weaker then he is cell jr. "Even vegeta " and your fateher goku not Trunks but first is Vegeta it s not like he is a lot stronger but he is .
@@richardgaming8051 lol, THAT is yur evidence 🤣
😂cell saga trunks going ssj2 makes vegeta going ssj2 look pathetic its like comparing Z broly going Lssj vs goku going ssj for the first time on namek
No Vegeta isnt because he didnt want that form
Grade 2 yes. Grade 3 no
Trunks is stronger in that form
Say what you want about grade 3 but Trunks took 10x the amount of direct hits without getting KOd thats more than Vegeta lasted. Vegeta got 1 shot by perfect cell. Trunks at least got some hits in.
Facts
In the Anime. He's unable to land a single hit on cell in the manga. Grade 3 is more durable but takes up too much energy and makes you much slower, so the disadvantages heavily outweighs the positives.
@@emmanuel4989 The manga in this case of DBZ isnt relevant, Akira was still very much in creative control of his Dragon Ball property, so I believe the addition was added in by Akira, alot of stuff he added in the anime seems like it makes alot more sense than the manga, the manga was trash alot of times, just stuff happened, then no context that made sense, the anime provided something that made alot more sense. I say Trunks being ALOT stronger than Vegeta makes alot more sense, he started out alot younger than Vegeta when he was first introduced already having reached SSJ, even younger than Goku who had just achieved SSJ maybe 1 year earlier, I say Vegeta is lucky Trunks never got 3 years of training in 500 times gravity, he would have really been behind in the times.
@emmanuel4989 idgaf about the Manga. I'm talking about Dbz and kai which is its own interpretation.
@@xarbinchaoticneutral1785 Even if were just talking anime vegeta blowing off almost half of cells body is still more significant than anything trunks did.
It's common knowledge that vegeta I stronger
They are both scrubs compared to Cell so who cares.
Honestly tho Vegeta is probably a bit stronger.
Vegeta was stronger then
Yes sir