Dan Slott's run on She-Hulk was fantastic. I didn't enjoy reading stories about Otto in Peter's body while it was coming out but read it on the app later. It was very well done. Also the moment when the Green Goblin realizes that Peter is back in control of Spider-Man is one of the best Spider-Man moments in the history of the character.
Wait it’s coming back?! Omg! I thought the last run where they pulled a OMD and ruined it all but if this is true I’m gonna celebrate! I love Superior Spider-Man. I love him more than any version of Spider-Man including the original.
Reading letter pages is always a good time for me. I always wonder how many of those angry readers were actually readers, or are like my Dad, who gets angry over any change to comics status quo, but hasn’t read any since the late 70’s.
I definitely related to that part of the video. When I was younger and angrier, I would get pissed over changes to characters and anything that messed up the status quo. Over time I've learned to relax about it and try to adopt the perspective Chris has in this video and not get so caught up on specific ways a character should be, but instead have a more fluid outlook on them.
@@WarriorBoy Yeah. With something like "Superior Spider-Man", it's all very obvious that the status quo is coming back, so just try to enjoy the ride. What upset me about "One More Day" wasn't the fact that they did this big retcon; it's that the whole thing felt like an emphatic declaration by Marvel editorial that "We will never allow anything too interesting to happen to Peter Parker. He's going to be a single, underemployed 20-something forever."
I was a reader. Not of Superior Spider-Man, but of other comics I wrote letters to. They published a couple, but dumb teenage me mostly wrote four or five page single-spaced typed letters back then, way too long for publication. I'd bring up every dropped subplot and forgotten character from the last four or five years, then wonder why they seemed to be ignoring me. ;-)
I was reading ASM leading up to Superior Spidey, but had money issues at the time so I had to stop reading after issue 11 I think. Years later, just 2 months ago, I finished collecting the rest of the issues and now own the entire run. It's probably one of my fav Spidey stories to date and it definitely cemented artist Ryan Stegman as a personal favorite of mine.
1:55 “Arkham Asylum Living Hell” is one of my favorite Batman stories tbh. It’s so different than a lot of the other Batman stories and has so much going on, but I never felt that it got difficult to read. I’d love to see you make a whole video on it lol.
My favourite run of Dan Slott is his Silver Surfer with Michael Allred. That run made me go through so many emotions. And the artwork is just wonderful.
It's a fantastic run. I'm not big into Allred's art, I don't hate it but it does nothing for me, but the writing and characters in the run made so good. It's among my top favourite comic runs
I'm really glad you talked about Superior Spider-man, in my case, it was the run that made me like comic books in first place. I was skeptical at first considering the whole controversy with Otto taking over Peter's bodies, but in the end it made me eat my words and really appreciate the run for what it was.
@@mayotango1317 Gary Stu? Not to put too fine a point on it, but the entire conflict in the back half of the run is directly caused by Otto's "superior" approach to crime-fighting
@mayotango1317 I wouldn't say he is "so popular". He has is fans, but that's it. Now having read the whole run after it's completion, it was far from perfect, but even without being a die-hard comic book reader I can tell the whole point was pretty clearly that the self-proclaimed "Superior Spider-Man" was in fact, not Superior. Even before Otto admit it himself. Not sure how bringing him back would work though, but then again I haven't read any recent Spider-Man comic.
This is by far my favourite modern Spider-Man story, all the better for letting it play out over a year and across all other Spidey appearances. Writers seemed to relish doing the character “The die has been cast!”
The two letters you cite: I sympathize with the second writer. If a title is not making you happy, leave. Save your money. As for the first writer, well, I'm always a little dumbfounded by fans who can't recognize an obviously-finite plotline when it's introduced. Insert "First time?" meme here.
Yeah I don't believe that second guy whatsoever. You telling me you stayed on-board through the ENTIRE clone saga but one Freaky-Friday arc is the final straw? Come on, man. Either he's lying about being a devoted reader that long, or he ain't quitting the book now either.
The extreme hatred and death threats Mr. Slott received during his run on Superior Spider-Man still surprise me even a decade later. Like... It's fine to not enjoy something, that's just how life is, but don't threaten to murder someone over a comic book. That just makes you (The Reader/Fan) look beyond petty. Besides... There's nothing wrong with a Redemption arc. More importantly, Marvel naturally wouldn't let their biggest cash-cow stay dead.
Death threats are something I will never understand personally, but they are sadly universal, occurring in just about every form of entertainment when a decision is made someone doesn't like. A big portion of the population has no emotional control or way to healthily deal with negative feelings, so "You made a Spider-Man decision I disliked" bothers them enough, defaces their identity enough, to threaten their life. And you know the same people would never, ever have the balls to walk up to Slott's face and threaten to kill him (most of them at least). The anonymity of letters and DMs gives them a feeling of protection. At least that's my theory.
@Pokemon Ranger Blue "There's nothing wrong with a good Redemption Arc" Currently unfortunately there is because the person that's being redeemed at this very moment is none other than former Green Goblin himself Norman Osborn. This Redemption Arc does NOT work for a vast variety of reasons and all of them are justifiable. The only reason it's happening is because of the upcoming Spider-Man animated series with Norman Osborn acting as Peters mentor.
@@naquingreen1603 Nothing's wrong with a "well written" redemption arc, if it makes zero sense the readers won't believe it and it falls flat. Norman would definitely be a HARD sell for redemption, it's almost like trying to give the Joker a redemption arc, the only real excuse they might have is basically 'vague largely unspecific insanity' even if they GENUINELY changed and started doing good, and this change was written in a believable way which would be a tall ask on it's own, after that you STILL have to address the deep pool of pain, and torment they are responsible for, because if you don't then all the work you put into changing their character would feel cheap and hollow. This sounds like the worst writing project ever tbh.
@@naquingreen1603The funny thing about it, is that at some point I would agree with you, up until I read the stories. Gold Goblin so far has been much better than I was hoping for. I don't expect it to be long-term, but so far it's been an entertaining phase of the character. Always wanted a heroic Goblin(though I'd prefer Phil on the mantle).
Another awesome episode, Chris! I was one of the few that liked what Superior Spider-man was doing from the get go. To me it was a much needed change in direction that was, in my opinion, overdue. I think it was clever and innovative and to this day the Superior Spider-man suit is still one of my favorites. Double salute, Chris and I hope you're feeling well. I'll see you for tomorrow's Pros and Cons!
I didn't really enjoy Superior Spider-Man at the time, but I really liked the second volume where Otto got a cloned body with spider powers and relocated to San Francisco (?) with Anna Maria. I was VERY disappointed when Mephisto made a deal with Otto and reverted him to his original body and villainous personality with none of the character development he had experienced. I'm not sure what Dan Slott will do now that he's returning to Superior Spider-Man; I hope he's bringing back the latter version.
Superior Spider-Man made me buy the book again after a long drought. And...I really loved the Spider-Man Human Torch miniseries and had the fortune to ink the last two issues over Ty Templeton. The double-edged sword is that, while I loved inking it, I now I knew how the book would wrap up, A self-spoiler alert! lol
I thought that Dan Slot run on this issue was superior as well his run on "Big Time Spider-Man” and course the "Spider-verse”. I have spoken with Dan many times in person and on Twitter, he is a very creative artist and he share with me about how his editor told him , “He was too violence with Spider-Man and after the Spider -Verse he had to tone it down’’. I said,’’ that when you were at your most created and best and shouldn’t have told you to hold back’’. He told me in 2016," that was the reason why he was going to be leaving Amazing pretty soon". And in 2018 he was out but he went down swinging . I like this video on my favorite book that brought me back to “Spidey” good video essay Comic Tropes.
The Superior Spider-Man suit is by far my favorite of the more recent mainline suit designs (especially its 3rd design). The addition of the claws/talons, the larger mechanical web shooter device things being visibly mounted along the top part of the forearms (especially the exposed metal ones), the mechanical “Spider-Arms”, and reincorporating the underarm web wings all added some really awesome visual dynamics and contrast to Spider-Man’s overall design that makes him more aesthetically/visually interesting and more exciting to watch in action…as I personally have always felt the typical traditional suits tend to be too bland and boring sometimes which imo always leave a bit to be desired. This suit made him feel more spider-like in a very fitting and natural way to the character that I truly wish at least some aspects ended up being permanent inclusions to Spider-Man’s current and future suit/designs. (Obviously not any un-Spider-Man-like gadgets and tech like the little spider drone army tho, haha) Aesthetically, the red & black combo just looks absolutely awesome. From the way the 2nd & 3rd version of these suits incorporate the center spider symbol, to the overall way it’s drawn (especially the eyes), it all just makes it look very unique, fresh and dynamic while still feeling and looking like not too big of a jump from previous traditional Spidey suits.
I quit Spider-Man after One More Day. I was sick and tired of Marvel Brass doing everything in their power to break up Peter and MJ, finally “winning” with a rejected Clone Saga conclusion deemed “too mystical for Spider-Man”, so I considered it a good jumping off point. From time to time I’ll catch up on recent issues/arc that catch my eye, like the return of Hobgoblin, but I don’t think anything will get me to go back to regular purchasing and reading. I really don’t care for the recent “Paul & MJ” stuff (pretty much everything about that arc is everything not to do for a good Spider-Man story, including the recent conclusion), and while I miss out on experiencing potentially great stories when they happen, I prefer having them vetted so I don’t waste my time and money on potentially bad books. I have read Spider-Verse in trades, and since it brought back the ridiculous “Morlun/Spider-Totem” junk from Straczynski’s early run, I ended up not caring for it (another case of media adaptations executing a story concept way better, see also Civil War and Flashpoint adaptations). I will give this arc a read based on your analysis and recommendation. Thank you.
I know people slag on Dan Slott, but he had the most unenviable task I could think of: - Fans are pissed over the way the last run ended. - The previous run was still mostly well received, so you have high standards to live up to. - You can't work to undo or criticize those events because those decisions were made by your boss.
My favorite part of the whole Superior Spider-Man arc was when Green Goblin realized that Peter got his body back from Otto. That panel with look on Osborn's face once he figured it out should be hung in the Louvre.
I remember the discourse of issue one of "wouldnt Ock be SA'ing MJ if they were together without her knowing who he really was" only for the cover to be Superior all over Mary Jane, adding gas to the fire. I jumped in reading Spider-Man during Civil War so I didnt have a dog in the race when OMD and BND happening. I enjoyed (mostly) what i was reading during all of that time.
During college I was picking up practically every book released every week with One More Day not only coming out around the last time I dropped out but also kept me far away from Spider-Man. When I heard the buzz around Superior I decided to at least keep an eye on it, still wasn't ready to be investing so much money following so many books, and honestly it was a major shake up done correctly. I had read a little of Slott's work prior and he definitely one of the more consistent and entertaining writers out there.
When i read Superior Spiderman when i was a wee young lad, it was so refreshing at the time even tho so many people were hating on Slott's run. I will say the Christos Gage helmed Superior Spiderman comic from 2019 was awesome, especially the art from Mike Hawthorne. Tho i was sad all the development for *spoilers* Doc Ock got reset back to square one after he got a clone bod of his orginal body (im still pissed about that lol). Amazing video as always, Chris!
@@Reddotzebra No no no let the jackal stay dead. There are other scientists characters in the Marvel Universe who aren't as depraved and evil as the Jackal who could clone Peter Parker.
To pull off such a hard concept in such a good way was amazing. Also Superior Foes of Spider-Man was a lot of fun. I wish Taika did a tv show of that comic instead of doing Thor movies.
Great video! I wanted to offer a critical factual correction: this absolutely was a case of bringing a character back in time for a movie. #31 was the proper ending of the series and, in the letters pages, Dan Slott confessed that editorial's only restriction on the Superior run was that the real Peter Parker had to be back when Amazing Spider-Man 2 released in theaters. 32 and 33 came out noticeably later and aren't even included in the "Complete Collection (vol. 2)" that I own.
Was reading Spider-Man comics during that time and was really a fun ride, i love how a first he gave Peter his best time in in terms of stabilitty (well paid job, be a respected hero and be in multiple teams) only to lose all to Otto who ended enjoy it And i really aprecciatte what he did Otto from be the the dude with mechanic arms who was always beating by Spider-Man to be a real threat to the world and Spidey to the point to killing him and later take the mantle himself
in my opinion that best thing that came out of this run was a spinoff title by the name of (the superior foes of spider-man), everything about it was near perfect the story line, the humor, the banter between the villains, and how we see the fallout of some of the fights with a more brutal spider-man, I can't forget how great that comic was to this day it was like (how I met your mother) or (f.r.i.e.n.d.s) but with supervillains, it left such an impression on me that I am using (Boomerang) as my profile picture to this day.
Dan Slott's only problem was his agreement to continue on Peter and MJ's seperation (but there is "Renew Your Vows" ). In contrast, Nick Spencer's only good thing he did was getting back them together. On Spencer's run, i never felt that i'm reading about Peter Parker. He was like photocopy of himself or watered down version. That "Kindred" storyline was a neverending nothing burger. Altough, right now with Zebb Wells, everything is worse, everything. None of the 616 Universe characters are acting like their own.
I liked the story, but that part where Otto jacked off to Peter's memories of Mary Jane was gross, and the wild out of character moments for Mary Jane was off, the story could have worked a lot more if Slott at the very least paid more respects to these characters and their history with Peter
Slott took over full reigns of Spidey with issue 649 and the “Big Time” arc. Issue 546 was the start of Brand New Day and that’s when Slott was part of the writing team. That said, I really enjoyed Superior. It gave us not only a look into Ock’s mind and a deeper look into the Spidey mythos, but it also gave a bit of a reboot because the characters of both Ock & Peter had become stale. I also really enjoyed the version of Otto that initially showed up post-Superior. He was still a bad guy but not entirely villainous and being in a more “physically perfect” body gave him a swagger that he hadn’t had before. The worst part of the post-Superior ASM was the way certain plot points that should’ve made for great scripts for years to come were dropped. Things like Superior’s brutal bearings of Jester and Screwball, his harsh treatment of his superhero allies and most importantly, the flat out murder of a supervillain, we’re basically tossed aside as “oh that was Ock, I got better”. That murder should’ve been fuel for an arc in and of itself and to see it just disappear felt like Peter’s unmasking being undone all over again.
For a second, I thought you were one of those comic channels who only complains or talks about politics. But you're not that at all and have alot of interesting videos that actually relates to comic books lol I sub right away. You have a great channel man, thanks for being positive.
Superior is the run that really stands out to me as it was running when I was first introduced to weekly 0 day downloads on Wednesdays. I look back on the run, as well as that time in my life very very fondly.
I haven't seriously read Spider-Man or Western comics in general since Maximum Carnage, and discovering anime and manga shortly after that and not looking back. I watch your channel because you do great work, I like your perspective and take on things, and the topics and historical information you cover are genuinely interesting even without being a "comics fan" since jr. high... and listening to the summary of this arc makes me genuinely want to read it. It honestly sounds more like a good Manga arc, than what I normally expect from the comics industry (I'm sure there have been plenty of truly good arcs that I'm just not aware of... but anyone familiar with Japanese vs Western pulp storytelling should get what I mean). I would really enjoy reading this, and will keep it in mind as something to get to.
Superior Spider-Man had an amazing start, but at the time I felt like they rushed the ending because people couldn't stop crying over Peter, even tho it was pretty obvious from the very beginning he'll come back eventually.
@@martophrenia No, it wasnt, people are still angry after the clone saga, sins pasts and one more day. Replacing peter with another edgy OC is not original or a "breath of fresh air", we already got that bullshit with ben reilly and miles morales in the ultimate universe, trying to replace peter parker (the one true spiderman) with the current writer new pet is nothing new. Even back in 2014 people were sick and tired of that, it got even worse with time thanks to the spider-verse bullshit where everyone and anything can be a spiderman, but we cant have the real spiderman move on and be happy. Fans have more than enough reason not to put up with dan slott shitty fanfiction.
@@martophrenia so essentially peter dying and having a copy of peter live on is your idea of a breath of fresh air? I'd rather read ken penders knuckles comics than this
I was really broke when this series came out. Luckily, my roommate was collecting comics at the time, and he let me read what he was buying. I read the first few issues but didn't finish (if I remember correctly) because I just couldn't get into it. But my roommate absolutely loved it. Who knows? Maybe I'd have a different opinion of it reading it again almost fifteen years later.
First great job as always, A little error regarding the placement of spider-verse in regards of Superior. Superior has been "relaunched" (two more issue, if I recall correctly) during Spider-verse event. And the Spider-man during spider-verse was the one from the current relaunch (after the first cancellation of Superior), so Superior was from the past (Superior wrongly believed, at first, that the other 616 Spider-Man came from the past)
Seeing the run right now with Zeb Wells makes me appreciate Slott’s run 10 times more, and I originally already loved the take Slott took with Spider-Man, I own every Superior issue.
My favorite part of Superior Spider-Man was Otto using his body being taken over by Venom as an excuse to handwave away his suspicious uncharacteristic behavior as of late, only for that excuse to cause his peers to suspect him more.
If I were an actor, Great White Shark would be my dream role. I adore Dan Slott’s Arkham Asylum story, even though I’m not a fan of the magic stuff that pops up by the very end.
I have the omnibus in both hardcover and paperback. I was one of the upset fans at first but the more I looked into it the more I liked it. Awesome version of Spidey to have swinging around out there in the Spider-Verse imo.
Great video but i gotta say I was one of the people turned off by Slotts weird love of Doc Ock. The weird memory gag where Otto remembers having sex with MJ and Peter remembers an encounter with...uhhh Aunt May is super messed up in a way I did not want in my comics. That being said he got some good stuff out of the concept but it was all a bit too mean spirited for me.
I liked the first Superior Spider-Man story, I think it went a bit off the rails at parts, but overall, I thought the emotional parts were great and the story really worked. But what I really LOVED was the second Superior Spider-Man comic (the one Christos N. Gage wrote in 2019). One of Marvel's most underappreciated comics from the last decade. It sucks it ended after just 12 issues, and it sucks that it ended the way it did, I would have read 100 issues of that versio of Otto. Such an amazing comic.
I honestly adore the Superior story. However, it makes me sad that comics had to return to the status quo -- not because I wish Peter would've stayed gone, but because I wish Doc Ock would've stayed a hero! Whether he would return as he eventually did, to live alongside Peter as his own hero, or just stuck with his hero's death, reversing his incredible development was the worst thing they possibly could've done with him. But they had to bring back the villain, and it was only disappointing and frankly disrespectful to this excellent tale. And of course, it had to be Mephisto. It's like they're making fun of us.
Like a lot of people, i stopped reading asm before this storyline. When i got back into comics, I read a quick summary of this storyline, and didnt seem too interesting at the time. So i skipped it. After watching your video though, i now feel like i missed out and i should give it a read. Thank you for another great video!
i have this wild idea for an alternate universe/telling of "one more day" where MJ doesn't agree, and thinks that may wouldn't want that, which drives a wedge between her and peter, leading him to become depressed, and even to lash out, like he did when he was originally infected with venom, only he doesn't have venom to blame, its all him this time. where does that leave him, how does he move on, can he accept MJ's choice or will he go against her and mays wishes, i think it could be a very good story.
A few important corrections: Spider-Verse happened *after* Superior Spider-Man, once Peter had regained his life, with Otto being slightly in the future rather than slightly in the past. It's actually a bit of a plot point that, when Otto faces Peter during Spider-Verse, he initially thinks that Peter is from his past rather than his future. A fun fact is that Slott originally intended for Spider-Verse to take place during Otto's tenure as Spider-Man, but eventually held on to the idea until Peter returned and could headline the story himself. The original Superior Spider-Man run ended in issue #31 with Peter's return. Issues #32 and #33 were released a few months after Amazing Spider-Man had come back. What happened is that Superior Spider-Man #19 had Otto disappear into the future and come back. It would be later revealed that his off-panel absence corresponded to his participation in Spider-Verse, with issues #32-33 being a prelude to Otto's involvement in the story. So the sales number for issue #31 would be a better indicative of the book's popularity during its end. Superior Spider-Man also didn't quite happen while Andrew Garfield's films were in theaters. Amazing Spider-Man #700 came out in December 2012, and Superior Spider-Man #31 came out in April 2014, so the story was basically sandwiched between the release of the two films, with Peter's triumphant return predictably coinciding with the release of The Amazing Spider-Man 2.
I used to read and love the ditko/lee/romita run, and never really read a lot more of SM, except for the ultimate version, wich I like a lot too. Back in that time I wanted to start Spiderman again and what drive me in was the artist, Humberto Ramos, I was really amazed by his growth as an artist at that time, I knew him from Crimson something and Spectacular spiderman, and when I saw what he was doing I start reading, it was wierd, the last thing I had read of amazing sm was from the 70s, and I liked, it was fun, but the art was the main atraction in the beginin and I stuck for the story, I left the series a few issues after the peter comeback.
That's great and succinct review of that ark, by now we all Ock ended giving back the body so that is not a spoiler in my book. The base idea was bonkers and very much a leap of faith for the readers with body change trope but with the added dramatic effect of "killing Peter". But what's important is the character journey that was started with it. And the story resonated on the Spiderverse crossover because the conflict of the real Peter from Earth 616 and the superior Spider-Man was one of the main plots in the story with the strife in the Spidermen for leadership. And in spite of all the very melodramatic fan outcry , I think Slott did ease into it very organically: he first introduced the old and sick Doctor Octopus,who sometimes had been portrayed as a more sympathetic villian , as dying man who had been consumed by his worst instincts and now just wanted revenge before the grave took him; which also felt unique for the villian but also for comics in general. And it was a dramatic change in the character design too(I loved it) to have Otto basically just a hunk of metal containing his dying body, you could see visually how the stakes were higher.So the writing was in the wall that Ock was dying soon, and it was a stroke of genius and desperation for him to plot to take over his body, so from a character pov in made total sense. And it's good drama to have the heroes loose every once in a while, specially Spider-Man I would argue. Great work Chris, as always 👍😊👍
I thought Slott's Fantastic Four was alright. It's incredibly jarring after reading runs like Hickman's but I thought it was fun. Reminded me of a modern take on the original Fantastic Four comics. Iron Man was okay, got weird near the end with the Iron Man 2020 stuff.
I love how informative Comic Tropes is. Have you ever done an episode on Cliffhanger and Joe Madureira? They label and that guy shook my faith in comics as a teen and it wasn't until about 5 years ago that I started giving comics a shot again. As a grown man I find this type of channel fits my interests in comics perfectly.
@@gigangreg7837 His style is great but he took like 6 years to put out 10 issues of a monthly and really messed Cliffhanger up. Shook my faith in the comics industry growing up.
I really enjoyed this run with Otto in Peter Parker's body being Spider-Man. Otto's character got to shine and made me look at Dr. Octopus in a way that I hadn't previously.
Something tells me that part of this episode was to talk about the current ASM run without directly talking about it, namely in how you can ignore a run if you don't like its direction knowing everything needs to return to the status quo I will say Superior was a pretty fun story and while I understand why some people might be turned off about it, I really like this version of the character
The fact that fans are so averse to change, even when it’s interesting (and clearly temporarily) is a big cause of so much of the ennui in superhero comics and media
I stopped reading Spider-Man after the Clone Saga ended because I felt cheated by the return to status quo after such a dreadful retcon with the clone. I wasn't even around for "One More Day" and it made me glad I wasn't reading Spider-Man anymore. The lead up to to ASM 700 brought me back and the Superior Spider-Man is one of my all-time favorite Spider-Man story arcs. Slott remains one of my all-time favorite Spidey writers to this day. I remember the outcry over ASM 700. The day the book was released, Slott did a signing at Midtown Comics. Marvel had hired an off-duty NYPD cop to provide security for Slott during the public appearance. I thought it was overkill, but that story was pretty polarizing at the time.
It's remarkable how those letters from upset readers sound like today's angry comments or tweets. But there's no real time reaction or piling on. And if you're writing a paper letter that might appear in an issue months later it made sense to express your feelings as strongly as possible.
I don't believe someone read Spider-Man from 1971 to 2012 and Superior Spider-Man was where they draw the line 😅 Old mate was fine with Spider-Man getting 4 extra arms, clone saga, Android parents, Sins Past, One More Day, etc.
I remember talking to Dan Slott (Or who I thought was him) in youtube comments back then and telling him it was an interesting idea and that i would keep reading although I was really sad for peter. I like to think it was him haha.I was like 15. I also own a copy of Sp-Ock #1 signed by him!
Terrific video essay, as always, and love the shirt too (I just printed off the Street Wolves this week and plan to get it to the table, this summer). :)
I really liked the story arc. I can see how some people were upset as the way it was written you could maybe think that Peter would not be able to get back. It was bold writing. I also enjoyed how Doc Oc tried to be better with spider bots spying on everyone and how that all backfired on him. The various moves back and forth made sense. It was also a really action packed story arc. As you touch on, the different behaviour of Spidey-Oc only served to highlight what Peter is all about.
i LOVE Superior-Spiderman. the current Spider-Man authors could learn a thing or two about killing off a character properly.. ahem ahem, poor Kamela, ahem ahem.
I can't stop watching your videos, i really like your commentaries its not superficial like other youtubers from comics.Really to play videos games while listen to you.
I remember reading plenty of Dan's run back when I was in highschool (from Big Time through Superior Spider-Man) Amazing Spider-Man 698 blew my mind when it released
I was super disappointed when Otto eventually erased Peter’s “ghost”. It was one of my favorite parts of the book since it gave the typical internal monologues of spider-man a more dynamic back-and-forth, and it was fun seeing Peter react to the status quo changes
it still makes no sense why Otto would want to live on Spider Man body Gus Fringe living inside Walter White body could make for good stories? yes! but would he?
Pre-Social media it's hard to measure. But Magneto's redemption was controversial, internally and externally. John Byrne hated it and Claremont only went ahead after he left. But it's different because Magneto did it fair and square. He went on trial and everything. Whereas Otto didn't really do any redemption. He conducted identity theft and impersonation.
I'm sure someone complained (and to be honest, while reading the New Mutants run, it's still not that clear to me why he, spur of the moment, decided that he had been good for long enough and that now it was time to go back being a villain), but, unlike superior spider-man (which i do like, tbf) everyone knew he was Magneto and Xavier willingly gave him the job, instead of it all being an identity teft plot (in that regard, it's more similar to the second superior spider-man run, which, despite the terrible ending, was really good)
@@ElvingsMusings The trial wasn't exactly "fair"... It's strange to think Magneto has never been portrayed as a straight up supervillain since the 70's. Cartoons and film, sure. But Since taking over the Xavier school. Magneto has settled into a morally grey role within mutant society and the world at large. Otto basically did what Kraven did in his Last Hunt, minus suicide.
@@iosonotom1010 There were moments in New Mutants, wherein the kids brought out his temper and you almost thought he is about to kill them all and they are oblivious. Xavier in a moment of clarity before death, chose to see some goodness still remained in his oldest friend. Ironically, Magneto was at his most heroic in the Age of Apocalypse. The irony being that a world without Xavier brought out the best in him.
@@pious83 Well KLH still frames Kraven as essentially villainous by the end. Tragically villainous yes but villainous. Superior actually tried to end Otto as a villain.
Had me going with that thumbnail. I thought you were going to talk about Otto-as-Spider-Man blowing the brains out of that one-note washout, Massacre (wow. Subtle). Had to come watch this video after Linkara's review of the 1st 5 issues (SPOILER: he thought they sucked). Seems to me that Otto didn't just want to be a better Spider-Man, but also Punisher and Batman. What's odd here is that ghost-Peter sounded more worried about the well-being of the villains Otto fought (who were some depraved sickos w/ no redeeming qualities) than that of their victims. Where's your responsibility to the people, PETER?! Another thing that irked me was Dan "Walking Talking MARVEL Encyclopedia" Slott seemingly made everyone who knew Peter to be an idiot and too slow to catch on something was wrong, including his fellow Avengers. Which is weird, because I liked his run on Mighty Avengers. Worked as a callback to the West Coast era (with Hercules and USAgent on the team), and a character study of Hank Pym and his legacy, showing he doesn't suck after all. Too bad SOME later writers ignored that.
Lots of small inaccuracies here. 11:29 These days people kill characters and bring them back for the movie. That's exactly what happened with SUPERIOR. The reason the run ended early was precisely the fact that The Amazing Spider-Man 2 was releasing in 2014. The story itself began in late 2012 after TASM-1 ended. Superior Spider-Man is still a widely disliked and polarizing story, and far from being a universally recognized masterpiece. It's constantly criticized for its sexism and misogyny for instance.
Fans will be fans, I’ve been a big Spidey fan since the 1970s and I found the storyline bizarre but over time it did work itself out. Changes such as the Superior Spider-Man story arc are necessary for character growth despite the assertion that by now, what more growth does Spider-Man need? Great video!
It’s seriously gross and it isn’t the only time slott uses women in this type of depraved writing ( silk Asian fetish is one example). And mj, as well as many other characters were written so poorly because mj should have known right away that that was not Peter.
Gross? Yes. But I'd argue it was -very- necessary to show that it was Peter as a person, and not as a persona, that got her to like him. Otto tried to be what he thought Peter was, but all he got was being creepy.
I loved this storyline. The thing that pissed me off was when they brought back Doc Ock, and he was MORE of a villain than he was before this event. With all of the spider-verse shenanigans, I wish they would bring back Superior Spiderman more often.
Dan Slott's run on She-Hulk was fantastic. I didn't enjoy reading stories about Otto in Peter's body while it was coming out but read it on the app later. It was very well done. Also the moment when the Green Goblin realizes that Peter is back in control of Spider-Man is one of the best Spider-Man moments in the history of the character.
I can't wait to read Slott's She-Hulk. From what I've heard it's really fun.
Peter: “At least I’m not carrying a man-purse”
Norman: “… It’s YOU!”
Peak arch enemy dynamic
Didn’t they have to bring in Peter David to help it out?
@@spencer9745 "the one and only" - now read that in Josh Keaton's voice
This episode was perfect timing with the announcement of slott returning to write superior Spider-Man
They're bringing it back? Maaaan that last run...
Wait it’s coming back?! Omg! I thought the last run where they pulled a OMD and ruined it all but if this is true I’m gonna celebrate! I love Superior Spider-Man. I love him more than any version of Spider-Man including the original.
The annoying Supetior Gary Stu? No thanks
@@mayotango1317 Exactly.
Maybe they saw the video and thought it was good idea to bring him back
Reading letter pages is always a good time for me. I always wonder how many of those angry readers were actually readers, or are like my Dad, who gets angry over any change to comics status quo, but hasn’t read any since the late 70’s.
"THEY MADE THE SUPAMAN GAY?" *hasn't read superman since ww2*
My favorite letter is Kurt Busiek talking about how this Dark Phoenix stuff has ruined the X-Men.
I definitely related to that part of the video. When I was younger and angrier, I would get pissed over changes to characters and anything that messed up the status quo. Over time I've learned to relax about it and try to adopt the perspective Chris has in this video and not get so caught up on specific ways a character should be, but instead have a more fluid outlook on them.
@@WarriorBoy Yeah. With something like "Superior Spider-Man", it's all very obvious that the status quo is coming back, so just try to enjoy the ride.
What upset me about "One More Day" wasn't the fact that they did this big retcon; it's that the whole thing felt like an emphatic declaration by Marvel editorial that "We will never allow anything too interesting to happen to Peter Parker. He's going to be a single, underemployed 20-something forever."
I was a reader. Not of Superior Spider-Man, but of other comics I wrote letters to. They published a couple, but dumb teenage me mostly wrote four or five page single-spaced typed letters back then, way too long for publication. I'd bring up every dropped subplot and forgotten character from the last four or five years, then wonder why they seemed to be ignoring me. ;-)
I was reading ASM leading up to Superior Spidey, but had money issues at the time so I had to stop reading after issue 11 I think. Years later, just 2 months ago, I finished collecting the rest of the issues and now own the entire run. It's probably one of my fav Spidey stories to date and it definitely cemented artist Ryan Stegman as a personal favorite of mine.
1:55 “Arkham Asylum Living Hell” is one of my favorite Batman stories tbh. It’s so different than a lot of the other Batman stories and has so much going on, but I never felt that it got difficult to read. I’d love to see you make a whole video on it lol.
I wanted to hate it! BUT, I bought Superior Spiderman #1 on a whim and was like 'oh I like this!'
My favourite run of Dan Slott is his Silver Surfer with Michael Allred. That run made me go through so many emotions. And the artwork is just wonderful.
Just picked up the omnibus. Looking forward to reading it this week
It's a fantastic run. I'm not big into Allred's art, I don't hate it but it does nothing for me, but the writing and characters in the run made so good. It's among my top favourite comic runs
I'm really glad you talked about Superior Spider-man, in my case, it was the run that made me like comic books in first place.
I was skeptical at first considering the whole controversy with Otto taking over Peter's bodies, but in the end it made me eat my words and really appreciate the run for what it was.
Why The Superior Gary Stu is so popular?
@@mayotango1317
Gary Stu? Not to put too fine a point on it, but the entire conflict in the back half of the run is directly caused by Otto's "superior" approach to crime-fighting
@@mayotango1317because Peter Parker is boring. He’s been going through the motions for the past 20 years atleast.
@mayotango1317
I wouldn't say he is "so popular". He has is fans, but that's it.
Now having read the whole run after it's completion, it was far from perfect, but even without being a die-hard comic book reader I can tell the whole point was pretty clearly that the self-proclaimed "Superior Spider-Man" was in fact, not Superior. Even before Otto admit it himself.
Not sure how bringing him back would work though, but then again I haven't read any recent Spider-Man comic.
This is by far my favourite modern Spider-Man story, all the better for letting it play out over a year and across all other Spidey appearances. Writers seemed to relish doing the character
“The die has been cast!”
The two letters you cite: I sympathize with the second writer. If a title is not making you happy, leave. Save your money. As for the first writer, well, I'm always a little dumbfounded by fans who can't recognize an obviously-finite plotline when it's introduced. Insert "First time?" meme here.
Yeah I don't believe that second guy whatsoever. You telling me you stayed on-board through the ENTIRE clone saga but one Freaky-Friday arc is the final straw? Come on, man. Either he's lying about being a devoted reader that long, or he ain't quitting the book now either.
The extreme hatred and death threats Mr. Slott received during his run on Superior Spider-Man still surprise me even a decade later.
Like... It's fine to not enjoy something, that's just how life is, but don't threaten to murder someone over a comic book. That just makes you (The Reader/Fan) look beyond petty.
Besides... There's nothing wrong with a Redemption arc. More importantly, Marvel naturally wouldn't let their biggest cash-cow stay dead.
Death threats are something I will never understand personally, but they are sadly universal, occurring in just about every form of entertainment when a decision is made someone doesn't like. A big portion of the population has no emotional control or way to healthily deal with negative feelings, so "You made a Spider-Man decision I disliked" bothers them enough, defaces their identity enough, to threaten their life. And you know the same people would never, ever have the balls to walk up to Slott's face and threaten to kill him (most of them at least). The anonymity of letters and DMs gives them a feeling of protection. At least that's my theory.
@Pokemon Ranger Blue
"There's nothing wrong with a good Redemption Arc"
Currently unfortunately there is because the person that's being redeemed at this very moment is none other than former Green Goblin himself Norman Osborn.
This Redemption Arc does NOT work for a vast variety of reasons and all of them are justifiable.
The only reason it's happening is because of the upcoming Spider-Man animated series with Norman Osborn acting as Peters mentor.
On top of this, Spider-Man also has a cartoon or movie coming out even since the 70’s
@@naquingreen1603 Nothing's wrong with a "well written" redemption arc, if it makes zero sense the readers won't believe it and it falls flat.
Norman would definitely be a HARD sell for redemption, it's almost like trying to give the Joker a redemption arc, the only real excuse they might have is basically 'vague largely unspecific insanity' even if they GENUINELY changed and started doing good, and this change was written in a believable way which would be a tall ask on it's own, after that you STILL have to address the deep pool of pain, and torment they are responsible for, because if you don't then all the work you put into changing their character would feel cheap and hollow.
This sounds like the worst writing project ever tbh.
@@naquingreen1603The funny thing about it, is that at some point I would agree with you, up until I read the stories. Gold Goblin so far has been much better than I was hoping for.
I don't expect it to be long-term, but so far it's been an entertaining phase of the character. Always wanted a heroic Goblin(though I'd prefer Phil on the mantle).
Another awesome episode, Chris! I was one of the few that liked what Superior Spider-man was doing from the get go. To me it was a much needed change in direction that was, in my opinion, overdue. I think it was clever and innovative and to this day the Superior Spider-man suit is still one of my favorites. Double salute, Chris and I hope you're feeling well. I'll see you for tomorrow's Pros and Cons!
I didn't really enjoy Superior Spider-Man at the time, but I really liked the second volume where Otto got a cloned body with spider powers and relocated to San Francisco (?) with Anna Maria. I was VERY disappointed when Mephisto made a deal with Otto and reverted him to his original body and villainous personality with none of the character development he had experienced. I'm not sure what Dan Slott will do now that he's returning to Superior Spider-Man; I hope he's bringing back the latter version.
Superior Spider-Man made me buy the book again after a long drought. And...I really loved the Spider-Man Human Torch miniseries and had the fortune to ink the last two issues over Ty Templeton. The double-edged sword is that, while I loved inking it, I now I knew how the book would wrap up, A self-spoiler alert! lol
Lol dude casually is like “yea I actually helped bring this story to life”
The stuff that was written with mj, specifically jerking off to memories of intimacy of Peter and mj, among other things made me dislike this run.
I thought that Dan Slot run on this issue was superior as well his run on "Big Time Spider-Man” and course the "Spider-verse”. I have spoken with Dan many times in person and on Twitter, he is a very creative artist and he share with me about how his editor told him , “He was too violence with Spider-Man and after the Spider -Verse he had to tone it down’’. I said,’’ that when you were at your most created and best and shouldn’t have told you to hold back’’.
He told me in 2016," that was the reason why he was going to be leaving Amazing pretty soon". And in 2018 he was out but he went down swinging . I like this video on my favorite book that brought me back to “Spidey” good video essay Comic Tropes.
The Superior Spider-Man suit is by far my favorite of the more recent mainline suit designs (especially its 3rd design). The addition of the claws/talons, the larger mechanical web shooter device things being visibly mounted along the top part of the forearms (especially the exposed metal ones), the mechanical “Spider-Arms”, and reincorporating the underarm web wings all added some really awesome visual dynamics and contrast to Spider-Man’s overall design that makes him more aesthetically/visually interesting and more exciting to watch in action…as I personally have always felt the typical traditional suits tend to be too bland and boring sometimes which imo always leave a bit to be desired. This suit made him feel more spider-like in a very fitting and natural way to the character that I truly wish at least some aspects ended up being permanent inclusions to Spider-Man’s current and future suit/designs. (Obviously not any un-Spider-Man-like gadgets and tech like the little spider drone army tho, haha)
Aesthetically, the red & black combo just looks absolutely awesome. From the way the 2nd & 3rd version of these suits incorporate the center spider symbol, to the overall way it’s drawn (especially the eyes), it all just makes it look very unique, fresh and dynamic while still feeling and looking like not too big of a jump from previous traditional Spidey suits.
I quit Spider-Man after One More Day. I was sick and tired of Marvel Brass doing everything in their power to break up Peter and MJ, finally “winning” with a rejected Clone Saga conclusion deemed “too mystical for Spider-Man”, so I considered it a good jumping off point. From time to time I’ll catch up on recent issues/arc that catch my eye, like the return of Hobgoblin, but I don’t think anything will get me to go back to regular purchasing and reading. I really don’t care for the recent “Paul & MJ” stuff (pretty much everything about that arc is everything not to do for a good Spider-Man story, including the recent conclusion), and while I miss out on experiencing potentially great stories when they happen, I prefer having them vetted so I don’t waste my time and money on potentially bad books. I have read Spider-Verse in trades, and since it brought back the ridiculous “Morlun/Spider-Totem” junk from Straczynski’s early run, I ended up not caring for it (another case of media adaptations executing a story concept way better, see also Civil War and Flashpoint adaptations). I will give this arc a read based on your analysis and recommendation. Thank you.
The 2018 superior spider-man run is such an underrated story. I high recommend people check it out.
I def Loveddd Superior Spiderman! I hope they do the same for Batman already....have a new Bad ass Batman who uses guns!
I know people slag on Dan Slott, but he had the most unenviable task I could think of:
- Fans are pissed over the way the last run ended.
- The previous run was still mostly well received, so you have high standards to live up to.
- You can't work to undo or criticize those events because those decisions were made by your boss.
My favorite part of the whole Superior Spider-Man arc was when Green Goblin realized that Peter got his body back from Otto. That panel with look on Osborn's face once he figured it out should be hung in the Louvre.
The dialogue in that panel was written by Christos Gage, not by Slott.
12:14 What is that movie with Burgess Meredith?
Fun fact for me, he grew up in Rockland County, NY.
I remember the discourse of issue one of "wouldnt Ock be SA'ing MJ if they were together without her knowing who he really was" only for the cover to be Superior all over Mary Jane, adding gas to the fire.
I jumped in reading Spider-Man during Civil War so I didnt have a dog in the race when OMD and BND happening. I enjoyed (mostly) what i was reading during all of that time.
Can I be honest? As dark as it sounds, I want Marvel to kill off Aunt May. Permanently. No resurrections, no clones, no resets. Just let her die.
During college I was picking up practically every book released every week with One More Day not only coming out around the last time I dropped out but also kept me far away from Spider-Man. When I heard the buzz around Superior I decided to at least keep an eye on it, still wasn't ready to be investing so much money following so many books, and honestly it was a major shake up done correctly. I had read a little of Slott's work prior and he definitely one of the more consistent and entertaining writers out there.
When i read Superior Spiderman when i was a wee young lad, it was so refreshing at the time even tho so many people were hating on Slott's run. I will say the Christos Gage helmed Superior Spiderman comic from 2019 was awesome, especially the art from Mike Hawthorne.
Tho i was sad all the development for *spoilers* Doc Ock got reset back to square one after he got a clone bod of his orginal body (im still pissed about that lol).
Amazing video as always, Chris!
I have no problem with writers killing off Peter Parker. As long as they always eventually bring him back via cloning technology.
Yes! More clones. Let's bring back the Jackal as well.
Nooooooooo!
How dare you
Pretty sure we had enough clone nonsense by now.
@@Reddotzebra
No no no let the jackal stay dead.
There are other scientists characters in the Marvel Universe who aren't as depraved and evil as the Jackal who could clone Peter Parker.
To pull off such a hard concept in such a good way was amazing. Also Superior Foes of Spider-Man was a lot of fun. I wish Taika did a tv show of that comic instead of doing Thor movies.
Great video! I wanted to offer a critical factual correction: this absolutely was a case of bringing a character back in time for a movie. #31 was the proper ending of the series and, in the letters pages, Dan Slott confessed that editorial's only restriction on the Superior run was that the real Peter Parker had to be back when Amazing Spider-Man 2 released in theaters. 32 and 33 came out noticeably later and aren't even included in the "Complete Collection (vol. 2)" that I own.
Notice that #31 released in April and ASM2 came out in theaters less than a month later.
Congrats on 200k subscribers! Well deserved
Was reading Spider-Man comics during that time and was really a fun ride, i love how a first he gave Peter his best time in in terms of stabilitty (well paid job, be a respected hero and be in multiple teams) only to lose all to Otto who ended enjoy it
And i really aprecciatte what he did Otto from be the the dude with mechanic arms who was always beating by Spider-Man to be a real threat to the world and Spidey to the point to killing him and later take the mantle himself
in my opinion that best thing that came out of this run was a spinoff title by the name of (the superior foes of spider-man), everything about it was near perfect the story line, the humor, the banter between the villains, and how we see the fallout of some of the fights with a more brutal spider-man, I can't forget how great that comic was to this day it was like (how I met your mother) or (f.r.i.e.n.d.s) but with supervillains, it left such an impression on me that I am using (Boomerang) as my profile picture to this day.
Dan Slott's only problem was his agreement to continue on Peter and MJ's seperation (but there is "Renew Your Vows" ). In contrast, Nick Spencer's only good thing he did was getting back them together. On Spencer's run, i never felt that i'm reading about Peter Parker. He was like photocopy of himself or watered down version. That "Kindred" storyline was a neverending nothing burger. Altough, right now with Zebb Wells, everything is worse, everything. None of the 616 Universe characters are acting like their own.
Please, Nick Spencer really understand Peter Parker.
I liked the story, but that part where Otto jacked off to Peter's memories of Mary Jane was gross, and the wild out of character moments for Mary Jane was off, the story could have worked a lot more if Slott at the very least paid more respects to these characters and their history with Peter
Slott took over full reigns of Spidey with issue 649 and the “Big Time” arc.
Issue 546 was the start of Brand New Day and that’s when Slott was part of the writing team.
That said, I really enjoyed Superior. It gave us not only a look into Ock’s mind and a deeper look into the Spidey mythos, but it also gave a bit of a reboot because the characters of both Ock & Peter had become stale.
I also really enjoyed the version of Otto that initially showed up post-Superior. He was still a bad guy but not entirely villainous and being in a more “physically perfect” body gave him a swagger that he hadn’t had before.
The worst part of the post-Superior ASM was the way certain plot points that should’ve made for great scripts for years to come were dropped.
Things like Superior’s brutal bearings of Jester and Screwball, his harsh treatment of his superhero allies and most importantly, the flat out murder of a supervillain, we’re basically tossed aside as “oh that was Ock, I got better”.
That murder should’ve been fuel for an arc in and of itself and to see it just disappear felt like Peter’s unmasking being undone all over again.
For a second, I thought you were one of those comic channels who only complains or talks about politics. But you're not that at all and have alot of interesting videos that actually relates to comic books lol I sub right away. You have a great channel man, thanks for being positive.
I loved this run! Been reading Spider-Man since the 70s and I like when the writers do a good job with thinking out of the box. Great video!!
Superior is the run that really stands out to me as it was running when I was first introduced to weekly 0 day downloads on Wednesdays. I look back on the run, as well as that time in my life very very fondly.
I haven't seriously read Spider-Man or Western comics in general since Maximum Carnage, and discovering anime and manga shortly after that and not looking back. I watch your channel because you do great work, I like your perspective and take on things, and the topics and historical information you cover are genuinely interesting even without being a "comics fan" since jr. high... and listening to the summary of this arc makes me genuinely want to read it. It honestly sounds more like a good Manga arc, than what I normally expect from the comics industry (I'm sure there have been plenty of truly good arcs that I'm just not aware of... but anyone familiar with Japanese vs Western pulp storytelling should get what I mean). I would really enjoy reading this, and will keep it in mind as something to get to.
Superior Spider-Man had an amazing start, but at the time I felt like they rushed the ending because people couldn't stop crying over Peter, even tho it was pretty obvious from the very beginning he'll come back eventually.
Of course Marvel was always going to bring back Peter Parker.
It was a concept that never should have been attempted, people hate when this stuff happens for a long run
@@anthonysmith3415after 700 issues it was a very much needed breath of fresh air
@@martophrenia No, it wasnt, people are still angry after the clone saga, sins pasts and one more day.
Replacing peter with another edgy OC is not original or a "breath of fresh air", we already got that bullshit with ben reilly and miles morales in the ultimate universe, trying to replace peter parker (the one true spiderman) with the current writer new pet is nothing new.
Even back in 2014 people were sick and tired of that, it got even worse with time thanks to the spider-verse bullshit where everyone and anything can be a spiderman, but we cant have the real spiderman move on and be happy.
Fans have more than enough reason not to put up with dan slott shitty fanfiction.
@@martophrenia so essentially peter dying and having a copy of peter live on is your idea of a breath of fresh air? I'd rather read ken penders knuckles comics than this
We need more stories like this. People complained at the time, but it was fresh and one of the reasons I jumped back into comics as a 20 year old.
I was really broke when this series came out. Luckily, my roommate was collecting comics at the time, and he let me read what he was buying. I read the first few issues but didn't finish (if I remember correctly) because I just couldn't get into it. But my roommate absolutely loved it. Who knows? Maybe I'd have a different opinion of it reading it again almost fifteen years later.
This was a very interesting video regarding Spider-Man storylines that I wasn't aware of. Thank you Comic Tropes.
First great job as always,
A little error regarding the placement of spider-verse in regards of Superior. Superior has been "relaunched" (two more issue, if I recall correctly) during Spider-verse event. And the Spider-man during spider-verse was the one from the current relaunch (after the first cancellation of Superior), so Superior was from the past (Superior wrongly believed, at first, that the other 616 Spider-Man came from the past)
Seeing the run right now with Zeb Wells makes me appreciate Slott’s run 10 times more, and I originally already loved the take Slott took with Spider-Man, I own every Superior issue.
My favorite part of Superior Spider-Man was Otto using his body being taken over by Venom as an excuse to handwave away his suspicious uncharacteristic behavior as of late, only for that excuse to cause his peers to suspect him more.
Chris, congratulations on reaching 200k subscribers.
Good video as usual.
“How dare they kill Peter?! 👶” - someone who has never read a comic book I guess?
If I were an actor, Great White Shark would be my dream role. I adore Dan Slott’s Arkham Asylum story, even though I’m not a fan of the magic stuff that pops up by the very end.
I have the omnibus in both hardcover and paperback. I was one of the upset fans at first but the more I looked into it the more I liked it. Awesome version of Spidey to have swinging around out there in the Spider-Verse imo.
Honestly, your video has made me interested on checking out some Spider-man books since McFarlane run. Excellent video as always, Chris!
Congratulations on 200 k subs Chris
Great video but i gotta say I was one of the people turned off by Slotts weird love of Doc Ock.
The weird memory gag where Otto remembers having sex with MJ and Peter remembers an encounter with...uhhh Aunt May is super messed up in a way I did not want in my comics.
That being said he got some good stuff out of the concept but it was all a bit too mean spirited for me.
Mean spirited... Yep, that sounds exactly like Dan slot
There were some interesting stories with Doc Ock being Spiderman. But the whole ghost Peter Parker was ridiculous.
Was it a coincidence that this came out the day after a new solo for superior was announced?
I liked the first Superior Spider-Man story, I think it went a bit off the rails at parts, but overall, I thought the emotional parts were great and the story really worked. But what I really LOVED was the second Superior Spider-Man comic (the one Christos N. Gage wrote in 2019). One of Marvel's most underappreciated comics from the last decade. It sucks it ended after just 12 issues, and it sucks that it ended the way it did, I would have read 100 issues of that versio of Otto. Such an amazing comic.
I still resent they breaking up the marriage. I am open to peter marrying with someone else but this eternal bachelor thing is just nonsense.
I honestly adore the Superior story. However, it makes me sad that comics had to return to the status quo -- not because I wish Peter would've stayed gone, but because I wish Doc Ock would've stayed a hero! Whether he would return as he eventually did, to live alongside Peter as his own hero, or just stuck with his hero's death, reversing his incredible development was the worst thing they possibly could've done with him. But they had to bring back the villain, and it was only disappointing and frankly disrespectful to this excellent tale.
And of course, it had to be Mephisto. It's like they're making fun of us.
"Eventually, things go back to the factory default"
Unless a movie comes out and sets the new factory default
First time I've been recommended a comic tropes video in a long time and it's about one of my favorite Spider-Man runs? This is a win win!
Like a lot of people, i stopped reading asm before this storyline. When i got back into comics, I read a quick summary of this storyline, and didnt seem too interesting at the time. So i skipped it.
After watching your video though, i now feel like i missed out and i should give it a read.
Thank you for another great video!
I've never really read Spidey, but you made that arc sound really interesting! Thanks as always!
i have this wild idea for an alternate universe/telling of "one more day" where MJ doesn't agree, and thinks that may wouldn't want that, which drives a wedge between her and peter, leading him to become depressed, and even to lash out, like he did when he was originally infected with venom, only he doesn't have venom to blame, its all him this time.
where does that leave him, how does he move on, can he accept MJ's choice or will he go against her and mays wishes, i think it could be a very good story.
A few important corrections: Spider-Verse happened *after* Superior Spider-Man, once Peter had regained his life, with Otto being slightly in the future rather than slightly in the past. It's actually a bit of a plot point that, when Otto faces Peter during Spider-Verse, he initially thinks that Peter is from his past rather than his future. A fun fact is that Slott originally intended for Spider-Verse to take place during Otto's tenure as Spider-Man, but eventually held on to the idea until Peter returned and could headline the story himself.
The original Superior Spider-Man run ended in issue #31 with Peter's return. Issues #32 and #33 were released a few months after Amazing Spider-Man had come back. What happened is that Superior Spider-Man #19 had Otto disappear into the future and come back. It would be later revealed that his off-panel absence corresponded to his participation in Spider-Verse, with issues #32-33 being a prelude to Otto's involvement in the story. So the sales number for issue #31 would be a better indicative of the book's popularity during its end.
Superior Spider-Man also didn't quite happen while Andrew Garfield's films were in theaters. Amazing Spider-Man #700 came out in December 2012, and Superior Spider-Man #31 came out in April 2014, so the story was basically sandwiched between the release of the two films, with Peter's triumphant return predictably coinciding with the release of The Amazing Spider-Man 2.
I used to read and love the ditko/lee/romita run, and never really read a lot more of SM, except for the ultimate version, wich I like a lot too. Back in that time I wanted to start Spiderman again and what drive me in was the artist, Humberto Ramos, I was really amazed by his growth as an artist at that time, I knew him from Crimson something and Spectacular spiderman, and when I saw what he was doing I start reading, it was wierd, the last thing I had read of amazing sm was from the 70s, and I liked, it was fun, but the art was the main atraction in the beginin and I stuck for the story, I left the series a few issues after the peter comeback.
That's great and succinct review of that ark, by now we all Ock ended giving back the body so that is not a spoiler in my book. The base idea was bonkers and very much a leap of faith for the readers with body change trope but with the added dramatic effect of "killing Peter". But what's important is the character journey that was started with it. And the story resonated on the Spiderverse crossover because the conflict of the real Peter from Earth 616 and the superior Spider-Man was one of the main plots in the story with the strife in the Spidermen for leadership. And in spite of all the very melodramatic fan outcry , I think Slott did ease into it very organically: he first introduced the old and sick Doctor Octopus,who sometimes had been portrayed as a more sympathetic villian , as dying man who had been consumed by his worst instincts and now just wanted revenge before the grave took him; which also felt unique for the villian but also for comics in general. And it was a dramatic change in the character design too(I loved it) to have Otto basically just a hunk of metal containing his dying body, you could see visually how the stakes were higher.So the writing was in the wall that Ock was dying soon, and it was a stroke of genius and desperation for him to plot to take over his body, so from a character pov in made total sense. And it's good drama to have the heroes loose every once in a while, specially Spider-Man I would argue.
Great work Chris, as always 👍😊👍
Honestly, Superior Spiderman is one of my favorite versions.
It was a good storyline, but Slott is a 20/80 sort of writer and Superior was in his 20%. The remaining 80%? Ehn.
I thought Slott's Fantastic Four was alright. It's incredibly jarring after reading runs like Hickman's but I thought it was fun. Reminded me of a modern take on the original Fantastic Four comics. Iron Man was okay, got weird near the end with the Iron Man 2020 stuff.
I love how informative Comic Tropes is. Have you ever done an episode on Cliffhanger and Joe Madureira? They label and that guy shook my faith in comics as a teen and it wasn't until about 5 years ago that I started giving comics a shot again. As a grown man I find this type of channel fits my interests in comics perfectly.
What's wrong with Joe Madureira? I love his art style
@@gigangreg7837 His style is great but he took like 6 years to put out 10 issues of a monthly and really messed Cliffhanger up. Shook my faith in the comics industry growing up.
This is my FAVORITE spider man run ever! Excited to see what 2023 Superior Spider Man will bring that just got announced!
I really enjoyed this run with Otto in Peter Parker's body being Spider-Man. Otto's character got to shine and made me look at Dr. Octopus in a way that I hadn't previously.
Something tells me that part of this episode was to talk about the current ASM run without directly talking about it, namely in how you can ignore a run if you don't like its direction knowing everything needs to return to the status quo
I will say Superior was a pretty fun story and while I understand why some people might be turned off about it, I really like this version of the character
Good timing about Spider-Controversies. It's a well played video launch.
The real problem is that Otto is not Spider-Man. Peter is.
@@mayotango1317 Anybody can wear the mask. Peter. Ben. I have no problem with Otto being Spider-Man as long as he's also wearing the Peter body.
@@johnm.withersiv4352 Cof Carl King cof
@@johnm.withersiv4352 Otto is not a hero, is a asshole.
SUPERIOR SPIDER-MAN WAS EXCELLENT. I have read Spider-man since 1967. This was the best storyline since Ditko left the book ... and i mean that.
The fact that fans are so averse to change, even when it’s interesting (and clearly temporarily) is a big cause of so much of the ennui in superhero comics and media
I stopped reading Spider-Man after the Clone Saga ended because I felt cheated by the return to status quo after such a dreadful retcon with the clone. I wasn't even around for "One More Day" and it made me glad I wasn't reading Spider-Man anymore. The lead up to to ASM 700 brought me back and the Superior Spider-Man is one of my all-time favorite Spider-Man story arcs. Slott remains one of my all-time favorite Spidey writers to this day. I remember the outcry over ASM 700. The day the book was released, Slott did a signing at Midtown Comics. Marvel had hired an off-duty NYPD cop to provide security for Slott during the public appearance. I thought it was overkill, but that story was pretty polarizing at the time.
It's remarkable how those letters from upset readers sound like today's angry comments or tweets. But there's no real time reaction or piling on. And if you're writing a paper letter that might appear in an issue months later it made sense to express your feelings as strongly as possible.
I don't believe someone read Spider-Man from 1971 to 2012 and Superior Spider-Man was where they draw the line 😅
Old mate was fine with Spider-Man getting 4 extra arms, clone saga, Android parents, Sins Past, One More Day, etc.
I remember talking to Dan Slott (Or who I thought was him) in youtube comments back then and telling him it was an interesting idea and that i would keep reading although I was really sad for peter. I like to think it was him haha.I was like 15. I also own a copy of Sp-Ock #1 signed by him!
Terrific video essay, as always, and love the shirt too (I just printed off the Street Wolves this week and plan to get it to the table, this summer). :)
Great job as always!
Tbh it was a rough read due to my love for Pete but once it was over I thought it was fantastic.
I really liked the story arc.
I can see how some people were upset as the way it was written you could maybe think that Peter would not be able to get back. It was bold writing.
I also enjoyed how Doc Oc tried to be better with spider bots spying on everyone and how that all backfired on him. The various moves back and forth made sense.
It was also a really action packed story arc.
As you touch on, the different behaviour of Spidey-Oc only served to highlight what Peter is all about.
i LOVE Superior-Spiderman. the current Spider-Man authors could learn a thing or two about killing off a character properly.. ahem ahem, poor Kamela, ahem ahem.
i collected all the superior spiderman and never knew there was any controversy 7-8 years ago
I can't stop watching your videos, i really like your commentaries its not superficial like other youtubers from comics.Really to play videos games while listen to you.
I remember reading plenty of Dan's run back when I was in highschool (from Big Time through Superior Spider-Man) Amazing Spider-Man 698 blew my mind when it released
I was super disappointed when Otto eventually erased Peter’s “ghost”. It was one of my favorite parts of the book since it gave the typical internal monologues of spider-man a more dynamic back-and-forth, and it was fun seeing Peter react to the status quo changes
Superior Spiderman was one of my favorite archs! That was also when I got back into collecting again and was so happy I did!
Dan Slott also gave us Spiderman Renew your vows which is absolutely adorable.
it still makes no sense why Otto would want to live on Spider Man body
Gus Fringe living inside Walter White body could make for good stories? yes! but would he?
Only run I´ve dipped in since the awful clone mess, pretty fun, great episode! Tks Chris 🤙
I wonder if there was a similar level of fan vitriol when Magneto was made Headmaster of the Xavier school in the 80's?
Pre-Social media it's hard to measure. But Magneto's redemption was controversial, internally and externally. John Byrne hated it and Claremont only went ahead after he left.
But it's different because Magneto did it fair and square. He went on trial and everything. Whereas Otto didn't really do any redemption. He conducted identity theft and impersonation.
I'm sure someone complained (and to be honest, while reading the New Mutants run, it's still not that clear to me why he, spur of the moment, decided that he had been good for long enough and that now it was time to go back being a villain), but, unlike superior spider-man (which i do like, tbf) everyone knew he was Magneto and Xavier willingly gave him the job, instead of it all being an identity teft plot (in that regard, it's more similar to the second superior spider-man run, which, despite the terrible ending, was really good)
@@ElvingsMusings The trial wasn't exactly "fair"...
It's strange to think Magneto has never been portrayed as a straight up supervillain since the 70's. Cartoons and film, sure. But Since taking over the Xavier school. Magneto has settled into a morally grey role within mutant society and the world at large.
Otto basically did what Kraven did in his Last Hunt, minus suicide.
@@iosonotom1010 There were moments in New Mutants, wherein the kids brought out his temper and you almost thought he is about to kill them all and they are oblivious. Xavier in a moment of clarity before death, chose to see some goodness still remained in his oldest friend.
Ironically, Magneto was at his most heroic in the Age of Apocalypse. The irony being that a world without Xavier brought out the best in him.
@@pious83 Well KLH still frames Kraven as essentially villainous by the end. Tragically villainous yes but villainous. Superior actually tried to end Otto as a villain.
Had me going with that thumbnail. I thought you were going to talk about Otto-as-Spider-Man blowing the brains out of that one-note washout, Massacre (wow. Subtle). Had to come watch this video after Linkara's review of the 1st 5 issues (SPOILER: he thought they sucked). Seems to me that Otto didn't just want to be a better Spider-Man, but also Punisher and Batman. What's odd here is that ghost-Peter sounded more worried about the well-being of the villains Otto fought (who were some depraved sickos w/ no redeeming qualities) than that of their victims. Where's your responsibility to the people, PETER?!
Another thing that irked me was Dan "Walking Talking MARVEL Encyclopedia" Slott seemingly made everyone who knew Peter to be an idiot and too slow to catch on something was wrong, including his fellow Avengers. Which is weird, because I liked his run on Mighty Avengers. Worked as a callback to the West Coast era (with Hercules and USAgent on the team), and a character study of Hank Pym and his legacy, showing he doesn't suck after all. Too bad SOME later writers ignored that.
Im pretty sure the robot programmed to feel pain was originally a Simpsons joke.
Lots of small inaccuracies here.
11:29 These days people kill characters and bring them back for the movie. That's exactly what happened with SUPERIOR. The reason the run ended early was precisely the fact that The Amazing Spider-Man 2 was releasing in 2014. The story itself began in late 2012 after TASM-1 ended.
Superior Spider-Man is still a widely disliked and polarizing story, and far from being a universally recognized masterpiece. It's constantly criticized for its sexism and misogyny for instance.
Fans will be fans, I’ve been a big Spidey fan since the 1970s and I found the storyline bizarre but over time it did work itself out. Changes such as the Superior Spider-Man story arc are necessary for character growth despite the assertion that by now, what more growth does Spider-Man need? Great video!
Didnt read superior, but, I did come back the issue he returns and Gobbies reaction to him is priceless
The part where Octo try to get with MJ while being in Peter body are very gross and unnecessary.
It’s seriously gross and it isn’t the only time slott uses women in this type of depraved writing ( silk Asian fetish is one example). And mj, as well as many other characters were written so poorly because mj should have known right away that that was not Peter.
That happened one time. relax kiddo 😂
Gross? Yes. But I'd argue it was -very- necessary to show that it was Peter as a person, and not as a persona, that got her to like him.
Otto tried to be what he thought Peter was, but all he got was being creepy.
I loved this storyline. The thing that pissed me off was when they brought back Doc Ock, and he was MORE of a villain than he was before this event. With all of the spider-verse shenanigans, I wish they would bring back Superior Spiderman more often.
I still miss the inexplicable “co-mick tropes” jingle