Atlas/Seaboard: The Company that Failed to Spite Marvel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
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Atlas/Seaboard is a fascinating short-lived publisher from the mid 1970s that tried to compete with DC and Marvel. They offered the best page rates and other incentives to attract some top talent like Steve Ditko, Neal Adams, Russ Heath and more. But the men running the show, Martin Goodman and his son Chip, were just trying to beat Marvel Comics overnight.
This episode explains the history of Atlas/Seaboard and reviews one of their comics, Tiger-Man, to show how troubled the comics they made were.
Watches intro while eating chips.
Cries in horror.
"OH HI!"
I’m surprised I need to explain this but the “poop” is just a snickers bar, folks.
ComicTropes no the best intro to be honest
A Baby Ruth would have worked way better.
Either that or you eat a lot of peanuts.
It means the cinema magic worked flawlessly.
I loved the intro, the video was great too.
The phrase "Everyone wants to make The Avengers, nobody wants to make Iron Man" springs to mind.
Fuck that's such a good way to put it.
The Universal Monster Cinematic Universe had its "Iron Man" but nobody liked it. Then they had another "Iron Man" and that failed too but I guess this time they're just moving on ahead with Invisible Man anyway.
Except Atlas never tried that. Allot their titles were standalone.
@@Intertayne same for the Valiant universe
@@docsavage8640that's why he's talking about the guy who bought atlas comics to make a cinematic universe and not the comic company.
8:27 That "Yeah Tiger Man we killed your sister. So what" line is weirdly funny. Like he smashed his favourite toy rather than committed a murder.
I've said this in several instances, now, and I'll say it again: Every Atlas comic I've looked at looks like a prop from a 1970's or 80's movie where they had a character who was either a comic book fan or creator, and they would show these as examples of their stuff.
I can't give much hope to Paramount - particularly when the guy who gave us the false build-up to the two Ghost Riders riding together is the driving force - for two reasons, and they tie together: Their characters were either expies/ripoffs or they were later re-worked for sale to the big 2.
Decides to have breakfast with ComicTropes...After intro, regrets decision. LOL
ditto
as a young comic book fan (born in 1998, only been reading since i was about 13 years) watching videos like these is like hearing a veteran recount war stories.
I have an undue, maybe unwarranted fondness for Atlas and their inept approach to comics...I'm surprised, however, you didn't make any reference to the peculiar quirk several of the characters (The Brute, The Tarantula, Morlock) shared...namely, that they were Cannibals! I always fantasized about one editor sneaking in in the middle of the night during Atlas' developing phase and writing 'AND HE EATS PEOPLE' under random proposals, outlines and scripts!
I was thinking of peeing in the corner actually.
Wow! Thanks for the memories. I bought several Atlas comics as a kid ; they managed to get space on the spinner racks in my local stores. They had some good art ,were kinda lurid , weird & different - which maybe is why I bought them. Some few still occupy my longboxes to this day , & I still enjoy them!
I actually liked several of the comics, I wish there were more issues of Planet of the Vampires for instance.
I would love a a whole series on failed comic book companies. Love to hear his thoughts on CrossGen.
Tiger-man, Tiger-man
Does whatever a tiger can
Claws and bites, with his teeth
Eats up crooks, lake raw meat
Look out! There goes the Tiger-man!
We were *this* close to a dimension where we looked for the Chip Goodman cameos
Until next time true faith havers. Excel-cellant!
I love it when you spotlight old and obscure characters from forgotten publishers. One day I hope you talk about Gumbo Galahad and Hillbilly Comics from Charlton.
What the hell was that intro?
It was Angry Video Gamer tier and it was on Comic Tropes
It was off-putting is what it was
he appeared to be shitting through his penis
It's an intro about spite XD
@@pulphope I'm wondering if he was originally supposed to be pissing into the litter box, thought it wouldn't be clear enough what was going on, and then added the turd later.
Lesser known 60s comic book company starter pack:
-Imitation of Marvel’s style
-Weird/Cool Name
-Steve Ditko
-Rip-Off Characters (See Charlton’s Son of Vulcan.)
-Going Bankrupt
Actually, it is mentioned in Tiger-Man #1 that his first name is 'Lancaster' and that his sister just calls him 'Lan'. I used to love all the Atlas comics and actually, Tiger-Man was one of my favorites, along with 'The Scorpion', Ironjaw', and 'Weird Suspense' with the Tarantula. I have watched a LOT of comic book reviews, but you are the first one i've seen that actually knows what he's talking about!! You have great comic knowledge Chris, thanks for the informative videos!
He doesn't have a clue. Many incorrect statements.
Paramount has really been struggling. They couldn't even get the funding for the next Star Trek sequel.
Hi Chris,
Love your channel. I was wondering however, if you could do an episode on the techniques of J. Scott Campbell and the evolution of his artwork.
Thanks.
I was a big fan of Campbell in the 90s and his work on GEN13 was amazing. Not a fan of newer style.
@@gacomics5951 it's like he left out the jim lee influence and added more Disney
OH!! And the 'Grim Ghost' was an EXCELLENT title!! Only 3 issues, but well worth the read!!
Always liked the Atlas comics, did not know how weird their history was.
Managed to find most of them, but only held on to a couple: The Chaykin Scorpion issues, the Cougar and I think I still have all the Grim Ghost.
They had good ideas, but the focus was all over the place, or they tried to be very serious and immediately got stuck in a corner.
The attempt to bring them back was decent.
What in the Y I K E S what that freaking intro?
Lovely
The story of Tiger man actually sounds like a good organ story for a evil villain. Maybe not all the way villainy but definitely misguided villan
I enjoyed "discovering" and collecting the Atlas titles when I was younger, but I recognize now that most of the appeal was finding a lost, exotic thing. I do think there some genuinely good comics produced. Grim Ghost, Destructor, Scorpion, and the first issue of Targett were among the best.
Great video, excellent history and analysis. Wildly offputting beginning!
This is my new fav comic book channel.
Fun fact: Jonah Hex creator John Albano wanted to make an enemy for Hex called "The Tiger Man" after hearing Elvis's cover of Rufus Thomas's R&B song from 1953. Joe Orlando respectfully passed on the concept.
Albano instead wrote a short story, illustrated by Ernie Cólan, this time re-envisionioning the character as a superhero. It was intended for sale to Skywald, possibly as a backup in Hell-Rider, but that book was cancelled. It sat on the shelf for a couple of years by the time Atlas was starting up. Their high page rates and desperation for material meant that every artist and writer in the country started submitting their backlogs of unprinted stories, and Atlas bought them.
Tiger-Man appeared in the first issue of the B&W magazine Thrilling Adventure, published by Seaboard. Jeff Rovin liked the concept and told Cólan to start work on a color 32 pager, which is how we got Tiger-Man #1. Gabe Levy is credited as the author, but it's thought that Rovin and Cólon wrote the first issue based on Albano's outline. The remaining two issues were written by Gerry Conway and illustrated by Steve Ditko and Al Milgrom, so its failure wasn't for lack of talent.
Art on the last two issues by by Ditko and Giacoia and then Ditko/Milgrom on the last two.
Atlas Comics was to Marvel Comics what the DC Extended Universe is to the Marvel Cinematic Universe
3 good comics and 3 bad ones
Here’s another idea...maybe an episode on Tarzan’s Comic History?
I bet a $1000 that the writer originally thought tigers were native to Africa and then someone pointed it out and he quickly inserts 'dialogue' mentioning the tiger was from India.
That character and story was wack!
It’s so minor an addition I honestly wouldn’t be surprised. He must’ve panicked when he realized he had to change it.
Another great, informative video. Regarding Mt. Dew vs knockoffs...I believe many companies do not understand Mt. Dew at all. Usually, they try and create a "citrus" soda that tastes more like Sprite or 7 Up rather than Mt. Dew. It's like when you go out to eat, and you ask, "Do you have Mt. Dew?" and the waiter states, "No, but we have Sprite". It's like asking, "Do you have wine?" "No, but we have milk." The closest I've found to Mt. Dew was Food Lion's brand.
I will contend that Shasta's short lived knockoff Moon Mist was better than Mt. Dew
Face it, Tiger (Man), you haven't hit the jackpot.
When you ain't hitting it right
My favorite characters were Ironjaw and The Grim Ghost.
I can totally see a Tiger-man movie with a revamped design, by the same designers of "cats," the movie.
Yuk
Tigers milk is a powet bar, maybe he gets powered up eating those? Also Tigets blood is just strawberry and coconuts, I drink it as a slush so I don't get powers.
Yes, it is hilarious. Boasting about owning the rights to some totally average, utterly generic characters. I bought the titles when they came out but they only lived up to their limited potential.
Daves Comics And were made to ripoff Marvel. Hell, Phoenix is a rip-off of Mar-Vell and Carol.
Not even average or generic. Just flat out awful.
Very interesting info re: the history. I must say though that the writing in Tiger-Man is really no more silly than most of what Marvel was doing. The origins of even Marvel's major characters are almost all absolutely ridiculous and written like they're meant to be read by children - which they were.
I agree. And even the most "respected" story can be turned ridiculous when someone reads in a manner to make fun of it, like this guy does. FFS there is a channel dedicated to making fun of comic book stories, where two guys and a girl sit on a couch as one of the guys retells a storyarc. The two offsiders then make fun of the story, plot, characters, and even the writer or artist.
Excellent point.
I actually collected Tiger-Man as an 11 year old & remember being the disappointed when it ended. I then promptly forgot he existed until I saw this then it all flooded back! Thanks for the trigger Chris!
I remember buying a number of these when they came out. The way the characters changed from issue to issue was flat out weird. But then again, I had no knowledge of the history of the company until now. Thanks,
"Build an empire and hand it to Chip" gives me Batman Returns vibes.
Best intro, AVGN would be proud!
It was just six months, but oh what six months they were!
That was one of the best summers of my life.
Bring on "Iron Jaw,,Grim Ghost and the other Dude with 44. Caliber Pistols 🔫 ".
We shall see, just make sure they get some decent 👌 actors,actresses, and screenwriters !
I remember Phoenix from Atlas, also Planet of Vampires. PoV killed off three of the four major characters by Issue #4 and had been written into a corner. Just as well the company went under.
Perfect chemical and film company…definitely a front for an evil empire
I secretly pronounce everything that's hyphenated without hyphens. So far no one discovered.
Back in the fall of 1974 when the first atlas comics hit the stands, the comics speculators thought that they were going to be the new marvel,and invested greatly in bulk buying all the first and second issues.That is why today, great shape copies can be found so cheaply.
There were comics speculators in the '70s? I always thought that was a '90s thing.
My dad had 10 copies of Tiger-Man 1.
@@jic1 Having worked at a defunct bookstore that had rooms full of never owned mint 1964 marvels, can say you bet! Remember piles of mint spidy 129 issues.
Well, isn't it obvious why that mask moves with his mouth? Because it's actually a high quality, movie/TV show mask which Tiger-Man glues to his face, spending hours and hours in a make-up chair each day before he goes out to fight crime, carefully applying the glue so as to get it *just* right.
Of course! Great explanation! Your No-Prize is in the mail!
Nice video. 😃
Some suggestions for other videos: Caliber Comics, Malibu, Paradox Press and Acclaim.
Chris, you remind me of James Rolfe/The Angry Videogame Nerd when he's his more calm self, and not having outbursts. That is a compliment.
Atlas COULD have survived, but..... Atlas's vision was entirely superficial. They simply wanted a line of books that people would mistake for Marvel's comics and hope to build up from there. Since no title went past #4, and sales on #1 would be in around the time #4 was published, this entire line was DOA at the newsstands. That's the story that was left out in this fine video--why did it die before it had a chance to make it?
I believe Goodman was about 5 years too early. Had he launched these titles with those 'name' creators in the direct market, he probably would have had a much better chance. The name talent would have given Atlas some credibility and created a buzz in the media. But in the mid-70s, there was no direct market nor any comics media to speak of, so the line died because it caught customers unaware and newsstands (unlike comic shops) didn't have or want to create shelf space for a new line from a new publisher.
I think I have come up with a better reason for the tiger being in Africa. Rich hunters wanting a unique hunting experience so they paid for a tiger to be brought to Africa but the hero finds it first and takes it back to his camp, where his an genetic engineer or biologist working on a cure for a disease or something. When that person release the tiger in hope of this being blamed on the doctor as he is the one that found it, this resulting in him confronting the tiger and them both getting injured by smashing into his work, the chemicals and blood of the tiger mix together in the doctors body causing him to mutate in to tigerman. This could even lead to the tiger mutating and getting smarter as well as coming back as a villain or a companion seen as it will be smarter and may even understand the doctor and relate to him.
Since so few issues were published, it would be interesting to see them in a collected omnibus format
Mountain Breeze is from Safeway; Citrus Drop is from Kroger/Fred Meyer/QFC; Mountain Lightning is from Wal-Mart. Nothing about Mountain Dew or any of its generic offshoots tastes like "orange". It tastes like citrus, because of all the citric acid (which is the third main ingredient). Citric acid doesn't taste like any fruit in particular but the sharpness is more reminiscent of lemon or lime. Never orange.
I'll admit that I don't look at the comics in your turnstyle often but seeing a Badger comic there warms my heart. I owned the entire run in individual issues and then loaned them all to a friend. We know how that ended up. I've been dreaming of collected issues but that seems unlikely. Love seeing that issue though and love your channel.
Hello , definitely no expert. But do remember buying the original comic after it was stopped printing back in the 1970's Do remember that wrote to the comic book company and they actually sent back a letter, no promos , cheap Atlas. Apparently they rushed the story line through, trying to use as few pages as they could to cut down on the costs of publishing. I counted the pages and they where six pages shorter then DC or Marvel. Really never saw any more of them and was re realised a few years latter but no one would buy them and where thrown out in the trash by the shop keepers. Thanks for covering it .
I've watched every comic tropes video you have posted, keep up the good work loved them all!
"Witch Doctors Hate Him!" would have been a great tag line for Tigerman.
In BATMAN RETURNS, Max Shriecks son was named "Chip"
The guy that played 'Chip' in Batman Return would go on to play Leatherface in a TCM movie.
What would have been actually cool is if there was some kind of tiger spirit in the mask and that’s what gave him his powers.
It would certainly fit better with this style of character. And even for a comic book superhero, the science they use to justify him getting powers is whack. Everyone would be Tigerman if all you had to do was inject yourself with a tiger’s blood.
@@StewyAdamRules Ya. It's not like how Peter Parker or Bruce Banner got their powers from a one of a kind freak accident. I gotta say that a comic about an underground drug ring selling tiger blood injections would be pretty interesting.
ahhh. Atlas/Seaborn...the World Football League of comics. I'm sure we're due now for a big announcement for the Atlas Cinematic Universe!
Spider-Woman fought a character called the Flying Tiger in her 40th issue that was similar to Tiger-Man. His name though was likely an homage to the American airmen who defended China against Imperial Japan.
We shouldn't be too quick to defend characters like Bruce Banner or Tony Stark. They were both in the business of creating Weapons Of Mass Destruction.
True. They were arch capitalists
Bruce was just a scientist and Tony’s whole story is redemption for his sins.
@pqcowboychanel Bruce Banner's accident was when he tested a gamma bomb. A weapon of mass destruction.
Stan Lee's kid brother Larry Lieber was editor at Atlas Comics. Must have felt awkward working for a company competing against Marvel. Still big bro was gracious enough to offer him a job at Marvel again when Atlas went belly up.
See this flew unto a few others recommends at the 23rd hr as well. Gotta appreciate the hardwork put into the content, surely appreciated by fans of the properties and channel alike👍🏼
Actually, I think Howard Chaykins' "Scorpion!" was an excellent character! Very reminiscent of "Cody Starbuck," another character of his.
Was a big fan when he brought it to Marvel as "Dominic Fortune." It first appeared in one of Marvel's 1980's B&W magazines, so it got pretty good production treatment. Didn't see any Atlas books until a decade later, so it was a funny "Hey, wait a minute..." moment when i ran across a copy of _The Scorpion_ in a shop's bargain bin.
Well, the news of an Atlas cinematic universe should please Atlas's fans...all five of them.
Does the producer really think that a hand full of obscure characters from a failed company can really compete with the MCU? That's like thinking Howard the Duck could win a fight with Galactus.
I'm sure its just a scam to screw money out of foolhardy investors.
Like your channel-, back in the day i had atlas dragon, then recently every tuesdays I'd see loads of 1970's comics, (i work at a recycling center), the last batch was atlas i grabbed, what i could, and remembered your show. Thank you for being informative and entertaining!
Topic Suggestion: Valiant comics ?
Great stuff man !
So Chris...are you going to do an Episode on Warren Publishing or Epic Comics...or Elf Quest and Usagi Yojimbo?
The font-text reminds me of some public domain comics I've read.
Also you got the stores wrong with Mountain Dew knock offs. Mountain Breeze is from Safeway stores, Citrus Drop is from Kroger store, and Mountain Thunder is from Walmart.
And the most humorous, simply titled Mountain, is from Dollar Tree
Glad I was already on the toilet when I started to watch this.
Poopception?
AFAIK, Chaykin didn't have rights to The Scorpion. Dominic Fortune was similar to The Scorpion, but there were a LOT of differences, which points to Chaykin not having the rights.
Ric Buckler also made changes. Demon Hunter and Devil Slaver were two of 3 similar characters he created.
This whole video is full of poorly researched statements.
The changes in the titles are called the "third issue shift", because they mostly happened with or after the third issue.
4:32
I'm pretty interested by Hands of the Dragon here. From the cover blurb, it sounds like it's a martial arts series set in a post-apocalytic world. It's wild to think that, for all the ripping off Atlas did, they beat Fist of the North Star to the punch.
Yeah, back in the day I collected Wulf, Ironjaw, and Planet of The Vampires from Atlas. It became clear that while the artwork was usually first rate, the stories were inconsistent and editorial direction was completely lacking.
Well personally I can't wait for the $300 million rendition of Tiger-Man vs his arch nemesis Skinhead Jake. I hope Zack Snyder directs.
Making a bunch of campy superhero parody movies based on Atlas comics makes sense. Wasn't the Scary Movie franchise a kinda cinematic universe? They could make fun of Marvel/DC and not have to squeeze every joke in one movie. Plus...some folks (kids, my girlfriend, etc.) might even prefer the absence of serious tone, fan service, and complicated continuity.
Christopher Davis Well....spoof movies aren’t good these days.
A better way for tigerman to get his powers would be if the witchdoctor got jelous as people had stopped coming to him for help, he breaks into the lab where dr hill is making that tiger formula from the blood, they get into a scuffle and maybe a beaten dr hill is defeated on the floor but instead of killing him the witchdoctor grabs the fortuma and forces him to take it. He wouldnt know whats in it so hopes it will kill dr hill; lighting the house on fire just incase, with only a figure (in all black to hide his appearance from readers) leaping away and running off into the jungle. Dr hill waking up the next day in the middle of the forest confused and disorentated
This brings to mind Jim Shooter's Defiant Comics in the mid 90s. They only released a couple of comics in 1993 that were somewhat popular, but Marvel claimed that had a copy-write claim to a character Shooter used and threatened to sue. Just the legal fees from that threat bankrupted Defiant even though they won the claim.
Marvel hated so much Shooter to cancel their comic line because a name.Shooter make nice stuff as emplooyer in marvel
Atlas' downfall could also be credited to the year it debuted. 1974-75 was the peak of the recession. Between an economy that was stagnating, and crippling inflation ("Stag-flation" they called this phenomena) people had no money and the price of everything kept going up.
So pumped for the Tigerman and Brute movie.
Morlock 2001 looked promising in the world it was setting up, but it was not to be ... Still, it's one of the only comics I can think of where the hero eats the love interest in the first issue!
Planet of vampires was another good comic.
Basically anything that didn't have Batman, the joker, Spiderman in it was was good. ANYTHING!
By that time I had so O.d.ed on Marvel and DC comics I seen too much of those.
Signed:
The Marvel and DC burn out.
Holy crap Chris, that review of Tiger Man was geniusly hilarious.
His scent-based powers are kind of interesting though, and if he gets the "powers of a cat" you'd expect his scent to be greatly enhanced. A trick missed by Britain's own Leopard From Lime Street... though I'm yet to get volume 2.
Tiger-Man was a mix of Black Panther & Master of Kung Fu. The page layouts were VERY Graham & Gulacy influenced.
Atlas/Seaboard published 61 issues over 23 titles including 4 issues of Vicki which were reprints Goodman had the rights from Tower Comics.
I am surprised you didn't talk about how Marvel & DC pushed Atlas off the news stands (this was the mid-70's). The Big Two strong-armed vendors into not carrying Atlas titles by threatening to withhold their comics.
By the way, please make sure when you reference the Colón family, use the correct pronunciation. It is not "colon" like the large intestine; it is pronounced "cologne" like a sweet, manly fragrance.
Glad I could help. ;)
Woah... that intro... poor cat. ;) great episode!
I bought a bunch of Atlas titles -- back in the day -- I rather liked them.
16:35 "One of the men grabs the hair from one of Anna's three faces." xD
This is very interesting - I've picked up quite a few old Atlas comics at markets and stores in London, often for pretty good prices, and was left wondering as to the rest of the stories going forward ... Turns out there weren't any, so I can enjoy them all the more now! - They're pretty good, but alas not everything is meant to have a long and fruitful life.
Tiger Man should be played by Adam Driver
I was passively listening to this rather than watching, and then I hear, "grabs the hair from one of her three faces"
What.... what? Who drew this????
the opener reminds me of when me and my friends in high school molded a melty cliff bar that looked like a nutty corny poop and dropped it into the water fountain to watch people not drink from it like someone just pooped in the middle of a busy hallway
Did you get that idea from Caddyshack?
@@jic1 Naw we thought it looked like poop then we thought how funny it would be if someone bent down to take a sip, or if someone thought someone else pooped is all.
I thought the title meant that Atlas failed just to spite Marvel.
I was kinda confused for a moment
The story of a man having a psychotic break following the death of his estranged sister 😲
Talk about dropping an episode!
Love that in New York, while looking for horses and criminals, he doesn’t think of going to a race track
The horse races are so fixed in New York, he probably didn't stand a "ghost" of a chance of winning. 😉
As a diabetic, I can only speak for Diet Citrus Drop Xtreme. I actually like it, though I often call it FAUX DEW. Diabetics kinda have to get used to bland, but I like how, to me, it tastes somebetween Diet Dew and Fresca. Too bad aluminum shortages ended up not being sold anymore.
Talking about other companies wanting to get their share of the superhero universe pie, I'd love to see an episode on Valiant. With all of the baggage from Jim Shooter, and classic comic creators like Bob Layton, plus a company mandate to focus on quality storytelling above all else, I find Valiant and its history very fascinating. I'm currently getting back into their 2012 relaunch material and loving it.
Such sad their stuff now is not so great,allmost all their stuff from 2012 to 2017 are nice
Never mind Atlas comics , I think Cat Spite should be turned into a big budget movie . : )