Fastener Frenzy! Lucid Air Hoist Review Part 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- We (finally) got our hands on a Lucid Air and are doing a special TWO-PART hoist review! In this final episode, Jordan reviews the underbody of the rear half of the vehicle.
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#Lucid #LucidAir #EV - บันเทิง
The amount of engineering that goes into moving our butts comfortably from point A to point B is simply mindboggling! Thanks again!
Thanks for tuning in!
THANKS JORDAN AND MUNRO FOR COVERING ALL THIS 🤗😎💚💚💚
It has all got quite sophisticated over 100 or so years of this. There were always a lot of parts to a car, and they all needed engineering, but now they are having to optimise really hard on space/cost/crash/strength/reliability/weight to be competitive it's all got rather complicated :-) Back in the olden days it just had to be strong enough to work.
Part 2?!?!? in the same day? woa!
Woooo!
Two lucid videos in one day. I am getting even more excited for this teardown🎉
+1 ... Ditto ... It's going to be a barn fire..
this , NOT a Teardown . MUNRO did not buy a Looocid Air.
this, only a Hoist review. they have to give car back to Looocid.
Put it beside a Saab video.
They can't survive on Ferrari volumes, burning cash like a class 8 truck.
I always enjoy the inside engineering jargon I learn in these videos…. “The bolt is in sheer” “The H Point” “The fastener approaches the monument on the Y access” and finally, “the extrusion is ‘goobered up’ with adhesive”…. Nice.
Shear, not sheer
@@HBRDynamics the sheer amount of access to front storage is outstanding!
“… on the Y axis.”
The way Lucid was able to maximize the interior space while keeping the exterior footprint smaller is incredible. Everyone who gets in my rear seat always express how much room they have.
at end of day, the Loocid Air weighs MORE than the Tesla PLAID S (3 motors) and is less Efficient in operation.
Loocid uses too many Parts, Fastners , and Processes.
makes entire car harder to build, Assemble, Maitain & Service , and Repair.
the Looocid REAR seats are Really uncomfortable ,, because the REAR floor is Raised from the EXTRA batteries the Loocid uses. Compare model S = 100 kwh with Loocid 140 kwh battery .
the Tesla S has all 1st class seats and are Comfortable.
only the Loocid Air PURE w/ batteries removed has Comfortable REAR seats , and has SAME range as Tesla model S.
@@jdawg5960 - Looocid is unable to ITTERATE quickly, drop WEIGHT, reduce Parts & Process or even Fastners.
Make sense, Tesla went thru iterations of parts delete to get where it is today. The older Model-S feels last longer than today’s Model-S.
@@ChinoBingo love when people compare a startup company's car to a seasoned veteran with over 10+ years of experience.
I'd say that's a win in Looooocid moaters books 👍🏽
@@ChinoBingo - thats FALSE , the 2012 1865 battery cells are starting to FAIL , in Roadster and Mod S. (2016) battery.
and Tesla no longer Supports roadster anymore.
that does NOT Prevent one from Rebuilding TESLA battery packs by HAND with 2023 1865 Cells.
GRUBER motors Rebuilds & Replaces TESLA battery , modeule, and Packs.
they even perform MCU and CPU replacement , & Updates. and with NEW 2023 Software.
Suggestion Munro team….maybe pull a wheel off when vehicles are up on the lift. Lots more light and angles to view tight suspension spaces. Love the videos!
It would help for sure...
They probably don't want to scratch the lug nuts.. I noticed they look painted and polished. I don't think they own this one.
true they should remove the tires and have done this explanation
yeah, fo real!
Great video! Can't wait for the Lucid interior review with Carl!
You guys are amazing, thank you for a great episode Jordan!
Thank you for watching!
Shoot Jordan, Cory better not be getting mad at you with all the amazing content you’re helping Munro Live produce. Keep up the great work Munro team! Long time subscriber love seeing the progression the channel has made in engineering literacy for the public.
Why on earth would you expect Cory to get angry? You have a pathetically low opinion of Monroe Group in general and Cory specifically. Up your game and show some respect.
Another great video on the Lucid! Jordan does a great job presenting a lot of information. I love how he, and the other Munro presenters, explain the engineering jargon. Very good education and I bet helps get a lot more young people interested in engineering.
When I see elements like the spring steel clips securing the battery pack my immediate thoughts go to galvanic corrosion if the undercarriage isn't kept clean through a northern winter full of salt and snow.
Great stuff Jordan👌
Thanks!
@From The Road ... +1. Could not agree more. Herr Jordan has an enjoyable verbal pace, succinct and to the point. .. Enjoyable to follow along ... Cheers, M/S
I will pick up my Lucid Air Touring Thursday. It looks well engineered vehicle. Great information and big kudos to Jordan. 👍
Hope you enjoy the car
I've had my GT for a year now. It has been flawless and just a joy to drive. Have fun!
One of the advantages of the FRP bottom battery cover is that it is not flat. Starting about half way down the pack it begins gradually angling up. with the rear motor cover in place it feeds smoothly into the splitter, creating downforce at speed. Lucid did well to recruit the aerodynamicist from the Red Bull Formula 1 racing team. Also note back at the front that the cooling system takes air from the front center of the vehicle and discharges it through the wheel well, not under the car. Air flowing out of the wheel well improves barrier effects along the side of the vehicle, reducing drag.
Clever monkeys, those Lucid guys.
The underside is a work of art.
👍👍Jordan points out items that must be making Lucid blush as they watch this!
Such as the trimming of the thick cover panel, the repurposing of the tie rod, and the battery cover clips.
What amazes me is the very small size of each of the 400HP electric motors that Lucid uses. I saw the Lucid display during the Monterey Historic Races in August 2022. Each motor is about the size of a large shoebox!
Each Lucid drive motor is actually rated at 650hp. It is the battery that is the limiting factor in each of their different models.
@@Miata822 it’s actually even more at 670hp
LET'S GOOOOOOOOOO LUCID FAMILY 🙋♂️❤🥳🥳🥳🎉🎉🎉🎉🕺🕺🕺😉👍
You just came out?
@@rogerstarkey5390 Hi🙋♂️❤🥳🥳🎉🎉🎉😉👍 Roger just getting home from work. Saw a Black LUCID touring on my way home on the LIE on 495 beautiful 😍😁😉👍
Amazing analysis.
The car packs a lot into a small space, and Jordan packs the maximum amount of information, clearly explained, into short sessions. Extremely well done!
i like the new laser pointer! helps to see where he is pointing at
Hopefully the order a telescopic pointy finger 😂😂
I watch the 1st one and now the 2nd. I think this guy is very good!!
Awesome job!
Thank you! Cheers!
+1 ... Man,,,, The Munro brass has a Tier One First String engineering team ... Mr. Jordan has the goods in spades ....!
Super excellent walk through on both videos! Lucid 'first' iteration is really impressive!
Great job, thank you.
Super clear presentation, thanks.
You are welcome!
Thanks Jordon
Interesting delving into the engineering design decisions made, gives insight to Lucids approach, challenges and capabilities........Engineering poetry in motion.
M/L. Struth - the design principles from this Lucid undercarriage are next level and glad to see legendary 'Lotus Carlton' toe control links ! Is this the only current BEV that can travel our Aussie outback Nullarbor Plain which has a maximum charge distance of 450 miles ? V.
Really nice and clear explanations. Thanks!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Most of the rear suspension was not discussed. There appears to be a pivot point on the massive lower arm immediately above the toe control link (which was discussed); that could be for the stabilizer bar but the stabilizer bar link appears to be on the other (rear) side of the arm, so this is presumably for the vertical caster control link of an "integral link" suspension system.
A MotorTrend article shows a view of the rear suspension which confirms that it has only a single upper link (providing camber but not caster control), so this is an integral link design.
Great work with both of the Lucid videos.
Glad you like them!
Great Job!!! I can't wait to see the tear down. Those spring steel clips on the battery pack are a corrosion issue if you live in an area where salt is used on the road.
the Plastic AERO covers protect the Clips.
terrific overview, Jordan, is so lucid 😂😂😂
Between the 2 videos, nice execution. Lucids hell though is figuring out how to redesign for volume/cost production.
Great presentation! 👏👏❤❤
Thank you! 🤗
Lucis is incredible. I hope the new SUV does well, it looks great.
Very good
I've seen cars stranded on the side of the road with shredded tires countless times. and some of those times, the tire even damaged the bodywork- fender or quarter panel. Imagine a blown tire ruining your brake lines.
I just imagine rocks eating it away. Dont drive this thing in the environments they show in their ads! 😬 I was shocked to see no wheel skirts.... Maybe they removed them, but I dont see how there is even room for them.
@@patreekotime4578
Was thinking the same, They removed some lower plastic pieced up front maybe they did with the fender panels.
Spotted an engineering moment.
This bottom resin impregnated structure provides 'presumably' really good ingress/egress protection!
Yes! Love it!
I think removing a wheel or two for better visibility during these videos would be great. The tube and effort to remove and install is relatively easy. Probably quicker than setting up the safety stands under the lift 😄
Great video as usual, Jordan! I love how you don't 'dumb it down.'
Really looking forward to your take on the battery.
Yes, I think having a battery that can be serviced is important. Such a key and costly component shouldn't be scrapped because of a minor component failure. Since EVs are hypothetically capable of very long service lives it is terribly wasteful for future cars to be scrapped as "uneconomical to repair" for some BMS or contactor failure. I recall early days when people saying that a Prius would be too expensive to repair when the battery failed. Today rebuilt batteries are widely available and inexpensive. In Europe some are even upgrading old LEAF batteries. The aftermarket can be clever is we leave them some room.
The washer fluid reservoir tightly packet under wheel liner is probably BMW idea. I saw it first on late 90s 5-series E39 but it could be much older idea.
BMW puts stuff between bulkhead and front wheels because it improves weight distribution and lowers polar inertia... and they have lots of space there with short front overhang and RWD platforms. It is actually fairly convenient location as long as fender liners are easy to remove and install.
A special Like! Just for Cory😊
Incredible opportunity to see how this car is built, and shows why it's so expensive . Time will tell if this kind of workmanship and engineering can be accomplished at a more affordable price point.
this is just an underbody peak , not a Teardown.
Tesla already does a lot of this or more in just the Model 3...
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Professor Jordan of Munro U-I doubt I can pass the exam, but I sure enjoy going to class!
Thank you for the excellent content and delivery.
One request-could you include a still picture or brief video showing the vehicle before any aero or other shields are removed please, or are all BEV’s essentially the same in that regard?
What a quality product, I'd like one as a gift 😅
Great job Jordan! I like that you talk a lot about SORB mitigations, what advances in material science/assembly technologies are you exited to see in coming years? And as an adjacent question, it would be interesting to chart how vehicle design have impacted the percentages of vehicles being written off? Although I recognize the advances, as consumer I am slightly scared of what composite unibody used in a unibody applications (BMW i3).
You make it look easy Jordan. Only real craftsmen can do that.
two videos in one day!! LETS GOO
Now we want a Jordan’s hoist review of model 3 and Y. After Lucid, it would be a great deal to compare what Tesla could learn from Lucid. Thanks.
You're the man now dawg.
A good term for the packaging of the washer fluid reservoir discussed @1:39, as an alternative to "shrink-wrapped", is "conformal" - that is, a tank with a shape which conforms to the shape of the available space.
good job!
Thanks!
Let's start tearing this puppy down! lol
Thanks!
Thank you!
Ahhh! Teasing
2x the views... Munro&A aren't just smart, they're smart
Jordan does s great job really appreciate the insight into the suspension especially
Let's go!
Well done Jordan! Cory, don't get mad. Lol.
Thank you, such a detailed look. What a fantastic car.
Good video Jordan. Two things I do not like; one the exposed high voltage line (orange cable connector) in front of the rear end casting. Two the rear end tie rod linkage, just hand down, ready to catch something. 🇨🇦
Fantastic video.. the car looks amazing.. And your explanations are always fantastic.
One thing I noticed.. The flashlight you were using had a flicker at times on camera.. LED flicker vs, camera refresh rate issues.. it was not present all the time.. But it was a little annoying. Some people are more sensitive to that type of flicker... Just wanted to let you know..
Adding my kudos to your presentation efforts, Jordan - great stuff. As others have noted- they’ve really crammed stuff in there, eh? And that spring clip from the last video all set to dig a nice hole in the adjacent rubber hose. Yikes.
Great review.
Can you take the battery apart and find the contact switches manufactured by Sensata Technologies that have caused the current recall and review them?
There is one problem created by having a low slung windshield washer bottle. Lag in getting pressurized fluid into the spray head especially is there is any leak in the hoses coming from the washer pump and electric motor. Hopefully they are using a check valve to prevent the fluid returning to the pump when off. The long hose in an are not warmed by an engine can also allow icing of the windshield wiper fluid, solvable by putting the hide in a passage that is supplying heat to the passenger compartment so it can keep the d fluid in the hose warm which helps deice windshields. In fact having the washer bottle grabbing a little test would also be good as well.
I see a lot of tubes and some wiring in the front underbody and the wheel wells that is very close to the road and exposed to all the dirt and debris on and off roads. Is that of no concern? I can imagine easy impact damage and accumulation of rock hard dirt and grime in these crevices over the years.
this Review is with Plastic AERO covers Removed.
Thanks! Great video!
Please make video about rubber bushings design analysis from different cars. Rubber or hydro bushings, dimensions, design.
It is very interesting especially for premium class cars and EV, because of high NVH requirements
Ace job Jordan and Grace , feels like I'm almost there exploring the car myself. Just occurred to me , would it be possible to get a really small camera to insert into the difficult to reach areas for a better view of the parts you are describing , for example I couldn't properly see the washer bottle or the brake lines. Other than that love the content you create.
2 in 1 nice
I'm impressed with how Lucid packed everything together. But in dirty/snowy environments, means everything may corrode faster.
It's aluminium
plus most of the parts that are tightly packaged are enclosed.....
The disadvantage of those components in the wheel arches is the mud and salt and ultimately corrosion
The upside is that everyday you use the vehicle the extra space is there for you to utilise and enjoy. But your right it will get very salty and damp in there , not ideal.
Jordan, thank you for the review.
But fasteners do not necessarily create a leak path, if the fastener only intrudes into the battery pack's substrate, but does not penetrate it.
It would have been interesting to see one of the fasteners removed. To see if it actually penetrated or not?
Jaguar used to put a lot of isolation on cradles , but still used "soft" tires and handled well.
damn i want one now
Maximisation masterpiece from Peter Rawling and Co. As explained by Jordan, he's right all the small things stack up. It's as nearly a perfect car as can physically be space wise. Design Wise, that's for another day.
What are those wires hanging down by the right rear wheel visible at 4:55, 5:23 9:25 ? Disconnected for safety on the lift?
Brake lines are right behind the wheel and not protected? Is this a good idea?
Great 2nd video. I was curious about Munros thoughts on this vehicle. My take away from both videos is its a tight design, tightly packaged, with serviceability issues due to that design. At some point it will need to go to the shop, the question is can your local shop lift this up and replace parts that have worn out...easily...or will it entail a complex procedure that will cost way to much? As you pointed out in the 1st video...its a no no in the manufacturing sector.
Suspension does not need to be designed this way as you stated...overly complex..considering it will be drive on a stright flat road. It will be a city or highway, which is not very twisty. Time will tell if they update to simplify. Cars are not space ships...kiss..as Munro said.
Tesla, Ford, and GM have a good and effective suspension that any shop can work on..easily. KISS Lucid KISS
If this new 500 Wh/kg cells are for real and somewhat available, imagine what Lucid could do with that. Lowered rear seat well for comfort and still much longer range than in the present car, and at a lower total weight.
With Lucid and Porsche sharing expertise and parts, such amazing cars could be made. A single Lucid motor suffices for most sportscars and even supercars. Up the cooling a bit, perhaps. Throw in a dense battery, not too large and Lucid will make sure a lot of range is attained from a small pack anyway with their aero and hardware. Porsche can add optimal suspension, braking, even rear steer. Then some active downforce aero bits that fully retract for road cruising.
For the latter, imagine a wing that comes off the boot top which looks really aero. The trick is, the wing rotates to become the scoop shape. Mega downforce only in "poser" mode.
That giant, single, thick aluminum battery pan must have significant thermal dimensional concerns when exposed to extreme temperature delta.
As far as the parts bin tie rod inner, can a manufacture like lucid simply go to an oem (say lemfoerder) and buy a part another manufacturer ordered, say bmw? Or is there a license restriction or similar?
Many of those parts are designed by the parts manufacturer, not the OEM which buys them, so in that case there's no problem. For example, the same electric brake booster (Bosch iBooster) is used by Tesla and Honda (and others) - it was designed by Bosch and none of the companies which buy it owns the design or the right to restrict who else buys it.
Almost everything I'm seeing is an improvement for the user over the Model S
They aren't really competitors. Tesla is focused on winning over mass-market ICE buyers, with the Plaid going after someone who might buy a Dodge Challenger Hellcat. Lucid is focused on attracting market share away from the European premium manufacturers, think Mercedes-AMG S Class or BMW M5. The comfort and handling of my Air GT far outclasses the Model S, but for the price it darned well should :-)
Lol ain't nobody cross shopping a plaid and a hellcat
@@klyded8523 No, but they are very similar cars and attract buyers with similar age and attitudes.
I think a steep driveway or a parking lot bump stop or a piece of truck tire could do a lot of damage.
There are only 3 axis to locate something in space in physics and engineering - X Y and Z,. I don't know why automotive mechanical engineers invented another two axis, as that locator is a two or at best three axis axis locator (if it covers height as well) but its definitely not a four axis locator. 😀
When I see the amount of frozen salt ice that accumulates on vehicle's underside and wheel wells during a typical winter storm period, coupled with the brittleness of plastic parts when it's -30 degrees, I'm thinking this Lucid is a temperate zone-only car. Not many would survive a Montreal winter. Hyundai and Tesla have learned to design their undersides to withstand the long-term challenges of salt/ice.
All the more , for the sake of " revision / home work " , in E.V. conversancy , thanks Charlie Schultz , bye Y' all !
At least some, perhaps many, of those fasteners appear not to penetrate through the structure. Fasteners into aluminum are still an issue. The fasteners either need to be passivated with dacryl coating or need to be aluminum themselves.
You didn’t mention the convex shape of the bottom pan of the battery. (Aerodynamic)
Lucid did a very attractive packaging job. It might be difficult to do that at scale, but perhaps that’s not the aspiration.
I agree, it really seems as though they're still making a version of a prototype at fairly low volume.
@@bluetoad2668 Thanks for the reply. If I were in the market for a higher end automobile, that is the sort of quality I would want to see (even under the body). I’d pay a little extra to get a nice execution such as Lucid did here. Good engineering doesn’t have to be cheap engineering.
Munro Live, have you been told yet if you going to be given access to the new Rolls-Royce Spectre?
@QALibrary ... With all due respect,,,, Who gives a shit about the BMW,,, Rolls-Royce Spectre? .. Are there no other fish to fry? .. Cheers, M/S
i would take a pure
Lucid actually makes a real effort with packaging. they may take it forther with tolerances than other, but those others are also not even trying. Lucid could do it to other brand's standards and still have a huge frunk. It's a Model S or Mercedes E/BMW 5/Audi A6 size car, but it has a big boot and huge frunk.
All they could improve is just make it a wagon. I don't care what it could look like, just make a roomy and slippery. Okay if a bit longer as well.
where , Loocid motors comes up short , is Advanced Enginering like 4680 cell, Structural battery, GIGACASTINGS , and in the Model S/X WIEGHT savings with Front & Rear drive units that can be DROPPED easily as Whole Drive units for EZ repair and Maintanance.
@@markplott4820hey also only make a handful per year and lose money on every one.
@@markplott4820 Still, their motor assembly is super impressive. Compare that to a veteran like Toyota
@@insevanhouts - Loocid DRIVE unit motors , are less Advanced than TESLA , do not last more than Millions of miles , like TESLA Drive units.
Looocid DU are Factually LARGER when inside cast Motor mounts & WEIGH more than Tesla Plaid DU.
also Tesla Inverters are FULLY Intergerated w/ DU motor mounts and are Backward compatable w/ ALL Tesla models.
how many BEV has Toyota built, LOL.
how many bZ4x RECALLED ? all of them.
how many bZ4x SOLD in all 2022 ? LOL.
@@insevanhouts - Looocid just filed form 8k, Loocid to FIRE 18% or 1300 Workers, its the Begining od the END of Loocid motors.
Was this LucidAir purchased by Munro?
NO, this just a HOIST review, they have to Return it.
IIHS 2.0 isn’t a side pole test. I think you know this and likely just misspoke haha. So also fyi the new barrier is meant to mimic the front end of a truck, specifically a ford F150 or similar suv. They ran the F150 and Honda pilot as benchmark test vehicles when developing the prototype. It basically has “frame rails” built in to mimic the hard sections of a trucks or SUVs longitudinals. This presents a challenge for side intrusion, specifically the door beams. So it’s meant to basically mimic a real world scenario whereas the old barrier was too uniform and didn’t really represent a real world vehicle. Huge crash nerd here! Next time you guys visit IIHS view the actual excel spreadsheets an, measurements, and tech docs. They get way way deeper than just ratings
amazing engineering - I don't see craftsmanship - I see precision engineering... thoughts?
I know they had talked alot about their packaging, but even if they hadn't it really shows! Looks like a real knuckle-buster from a repair standpoint, but hopefully it wont need much. It will be very interesting to see how this contrasts with Rivian and early Teslas as you tear down, but from this point it looks like Lucid are slightly ahead of Rivian and very much ahead of where Tesla was with the original Model S. I dont even want to know how much it has cost them to get to that point, but I have suspicions that even as expensive as the Air is, it wont be very profitable for awhile.
My one big disappointment is the apparent lack of protective skirts around the wheels. The washer bottle and the various hoses and brake lines are being exposed directly to rocks and sand being thrown at whatever speed you are driving. And that doesnt even factor in the mud and crap getting thrown in there to rust out frame components. Some past lazy mechanic removed the wheel skirts from my Camry, causing mud and sand to fill the extruded side rails causing damage. Replacement skirts have all been too thin and wear out quickly. For a vehicle with so much detailed consideration, this seems like a major oversight, unless Munro removed them for visibility, but I dont even see packaging room for wheel skirts in there.
Yeah, that's something that wonders me to. I'm not an expert on mechanics, but I'm pretty sure having those elements exposed will not do them good in the long run, similar to that cooling hose rubbing against that other element. Seems like an obvious oversight, something that should be caught before going into production. But hey, it's their first iteration, maybe that really missed it. Still, Rowlinson (Rowlinson?) promised to have a very organised production from the get go so such mistakes shouldn't happen.
Google, Lucid inner wheel well cover.... the form fitting washer bottle doesn't replace them.....
And Teslas are famously Are a pain in the ass to work on.....
The wheel linings were removed so we could see the stuff behind.
What on earth's going to happen when these mega-complex cars start having nasty breakdowns, 10 years later and out of warranty?? - Especially if (when?) Lucid goes bust. It's not like they're even remotely handyman or home-mechanic friendly. At least with the old and gorgeous BMW 850i (which are now dirt cheap ) , you can mess around with them yourself if you're very competent. But these massive EV's (Lucid, Merc, Rivian etc) will probably simply be scrapped when unfathomable problems inevitably arise down the line. This is happening to modern Bentleys right now. Their software systems are just so complicated (eg antitheft and key verification before engine-start is allowed) , that shops and experienced tinkerers are outwitted, and quoted unbelievable 5 figure prices for "wiring loom replacement".