Hi Dave, quick comment on the memory modules - Those are GDDR6 DRAM modules, similar to what are found on graphics cards. They are significantly faster than traditional DDR RAM that you would put in your computer, and they are in what's called "clamshell mode" where there's a DRAM module on the top and bottom of the board. This is important for GDDR6, because it allows you to double the capacity for of a GDDR6 controller (which would be important for running larger inferencing models.) The part number on screen is for a 14Gb/s module, which is not the fastest model that Micron makes, but it's significantly cheaper and more reliable from a signaling and board layout standpoint. On each chip, there are 4 interfaces, each capable of 56 Gigabytes/second. I work on GDDR memory (not at Micron or Tesla) so when I saw a familiar part number, I figured I'd share what I can! Thanks for the presentation!
If I can tack on some more technical details, those are 16Gb (Gigabit), not 16GB (Gigabyte) modules. It seems like a LOT of people commonly conflate these two units, but the difference is a factor of 8 (a byte is 8 bits). The capacity of memory modules is usually measured in bits, not bytes.
also he did not serve us an advertisment ... unlike what this channel is starting and will become very shortly.. ( and props to munro sell out and make its money for old man and company ) but my eyes will stay in the future shill free..
did not need a battery bank.. dont need a shaver... come on.. if you want rev from advertiment.. make a separate sponsored video and tear it down and say whats good about it!!! we would find value in that and so woud they !!! KEEP TRUE TO YOUR VISION
Oh David! That was frakking awesome thank you for your kaupapa. Now repeat after me "I will start my journey to health with 6 squats a morning in the shower...😍😇😎 We need you dude.🤠
I just received an an e mail from the regional sales manager categorically stating the the upcoming delivery of my new model s will have HW4 but no USS or RADAR !!!! Needless to say i cancelled the order forfeiting my deposit
You have such good timing! So many times I take a break and want a bit of quality 'TV' and see a Munro post within the last 10 or 20 minutes. Good Job!
Cory, Dave, you guys make watching technical detail stuff like diving into HW3 and HW4 differences interesting, even for someone who has no knowledge of car internals. Thnx to the team at Munro making very interesting observations and showing design decisions I have been looking with a total different eye at my own car . Thanks for all your excellent and detailed critical reviews that you brought to us. I would never image siting through hours of video’s of guys showing me car bodies and how well or not so well they were put together. I especially liked what you showed how getting rid of a few small parts that cast a few dollars end up saving the company millions of dollars. And we’re talking just about the part cost. But leaving out the handling and manufacturing of these parts will make out an ever bigger cost saving and even time saving. This brings Elon’s mantra “ the best part is no part” even more home.
If I have multiple notifications for TH-cam MUNRO LIVE always gets watched first. Always an articulate expert who can explain the unexplainable to us nerds out here.
Thanks for answering the question at the end about a retrofit for the current owners of Teslas. Great presentation. The future upgrades for FSD looks exciting with potential improvements.
Great presentation. Could you do a show about the technical differences between the old Tesla radar and the new Tesla radar? For example: What the new radar can see vs what the old radar can see?
Thank you Dave and Cory, but especially Dave, for the insight and breakdown of the HW4 system. I don't come from an engineering background (but from a lower level tech background) but this channel has become my go-to for learning all kinds of engineering and is always a pleasure to watch. Should be required viewing for young and old aspiring engineers alike. Big thumbs up!
Great to meet and learn so much from Dave. He's super knowledgeable and a nice guy. Cory was great as always. All of you guys at Munro & Associates make a great team including the head honcho himself, the much admired and respected Sandy. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Corey and Dave, great info. I saw some chatter on social media about HW4 and I'm so glad to have a Munro Live video on the topic so I don't have to waste hours sifting through uninformed opinions!
Dam- as always another #masterclass. And.. more Corey / Dave duo please! First time I’ve watched Dave here and much like the whole Munro crew- just a true master at his craft. Not a single media channel even comes close! To steal a Elon quote- second place needs a telescope to catch a glimpse of you guys. Just awesome!
You probably already have this thought. My thoughts on the more RAM is 1. Higher resolution camera= more needed memory 2. Often sometimes when you redesign something, the older version of chips is going to be end of life soon and so it makes sense to plan new items with the current version so it's supported for 5 years or so. Also, it may actually be cheaper.
Dave, excellent presentation and in depth knowledge. As a network engineer with over 40 yrs experience, I remember this LAN technology pronounced E’-ther-net vs eth-er-net.
Excellent review of changes, much appreciated! Wouldn't be surprised to see they moved to 7nm process, since the phone and gpu industry has left that node, it's got to be cheap from Samsung.
The best channel to learn. I can’t believe we get this kind of content for free! So thankful for Monroe’s team, very informative and well presented video
This upgrade in the npu and the cpu makes complete sense now with the parameter count of fsd 12.5 increasing 5x if i remember correctly and just to think that they still haven't tapped into the full potential of this computer is insane,which means that it will only get better as more months pass
Well explained Dave. Munro live in general is one of the best channels on TH-cam today. All of them are extremely intelligent & so professional. In regards too the HW4, I believe Musk did say it was not something that could be retro fitted.
Great analysis from Dave! I really appreciate the other Munro team members sharing there deep knowledge and insights openly to the community like this and getting to see all of the new faces! :) thank you to all the Munro team
I like that we can see and understand what Dave's talking about. (When Uncle Sandy went through the interior of the Audi in an earlier vid, that wasn't always the case.)
15:30 When they removed the radar, Elon said (June 2021) that "Vision has become so good that radar actually reduces signal/noise." He later (Feb 2022) said that "Only very high resolution radar is relevant." One year later, here we are with the relevant technology to improve the signal-to-noise ratio.
I hope the add-on buttons,as seen in the ad, will be available for other car makers and not just Tesla. With buttons, you can still look straight ahead while driving instead of looking at the touch screen.
I had the same initial impression, but over an hour of city driving at 30mph you'll use 6300 watt hours of energy (30mph * 210W/mi) which is comprised of both the 65watts of HW3 FSD, plus 6235 Watts for the drive motors plus everything else. If the new computer actually uses the full 160 watts, then the example of 1 hour of city driving increases to 6395 watts (160-65 = 95 extra watts for HW4) or about 213 watts/mile. At highway speed the slight increase in computer power is even a smaller fraction of total energy usage. Not too bad for better FSD performance
Please don't forget that this module is going to be used in different cars. That it supports a dozen cameras doesn't mean it will have so many when in a sedan/SUV. Maybe the CyberTruck needs one more camera and the Semi needs 3 more.
Likely that this is specifically designed for the cybertruck. If you think about why they need more cameras it could be due to how high the truck sits to see blind spots to prevent hitting small people.
“Windfall for Tesla “. Is that the shareholder - or the owner of the vehicle ? What’s the second hand value of your FSD now that it’s not going to deliver as previously ‘suggested’ ?
Respect to the "sexy bottons" people! Almost everybody is rightly complaining about the severe over-reduction of buttons. It would never have ocurred to me to come up with a solution for that problem, but in the instant i saw the ad, it makes perfect sense, and doesn't look too technically complcated to solve. A great idea. I hope they're succesful.
AFA the GPU/CPU not upgrading, that can likely upgrade later too if they want to add more horsepower. Dave was fantastic, and should consider doing an occasional video in the future.
Agree on all counts of your guys analysis. The unknowns are exactly the camera number and placement. Will be interesting to see when these cars with HW4 hit the streets. And then again when Cybertruck hits the street. I'm very curious to see if they adjust the camera placements to some degree, with CT. It would make it messy for the software team though.. to have to deal with a different hardware setup.. so it's unlikely.. but I'll be curious to see if the stand vehicles setup can deal with the towing applications well.
The backplates don't press the chip. They support the pcb and allow you to press the cooler onto the chip without worrying about the pcb flexing under the chip and the bga solder joints coming loose.
speculation on my part, but if FSD (if it ever comes) needs the better CPU cores and a few minor changes, I bet they can make a 3.5 board with the those chips to retrofit. Maybe remove the chips for the (low res) radar if they need some space.
Hmm... If I recall correctly, Elon suggested that he wanted to get rid of sensor inputs that complicated or conflicted the AutoPilot. He intimated that vision only needed to be mastered first, then add any additional sensors as needed or that would enhance the process. I don't think he ever said vision only. But i do remember him saying that LIDAR was a waste - at least at the state it was in at the time.
I think the 'white space' on the board is due to the fact that as you integrate more components onto the custom chips the total component count goes down. But the physical size of the board stays the same.....
one thing I noticed just now that Tesla uses two different compute architectures for FSD vs entertainment, Arm vs AMD x86. Samsung Exynos is fabbed by Samsung while AMD is fabbed by TSMC. It would make sense if they just use one considering Chinese EVs use Arm for entertainment computer and also autonomous driving computer.
Earlier leaks suggested the HW4 FSD computer is no longer fabbed at Samsung 14nm like HW3 was, but they have contracted TSMC and use their 4nm/5nm process.
Unless I’m missing something; the board connector to the HW 3.0 for the Rayzen/Radeon infotainment was exclusive to the Model S/X refresh series. These are lower-volume, presumably higher margin vehicle sales, so, the cost saving doesn’t translate to nearly as many units. However, as Tesla seems to like to vertically integrate across its entire lineup of vehicles, this makes bringing the upgraded hardware to the Model 3/Y for the aforementioned reasons in the video. Just smart design otherwise. Fascinating still that Elon Musk has suggested HW 4.0 will come to Cybertruck and it’s manufacturing rollout first.
I would think they would put cameras in the headlights and taillights. It would keep wiring simpler, no special bumper molding, less aerodynamic drag and also protect the cameras.
Hi Dave, quick comment on the memory modules - Those are GDDR6 DRAM modules, similar to what are found on graphics cards. They are significantly faster than traditional DDR RAM that you would put in your computer, and they are in what's called "clamshell mode" where there's a DRAM module on the top and bottom of the board. This is important for GDDR6, because it allows you to double the capacity for of a GDDR6 controller (which would be important for running larger inferencing models.) The part number on screen is for a 14Gb/s module, which is not the fastest model that Micron makes, but it's significantly cheaper and more reliable from a signaling and board layout standpoint. On each chip, there are 4 interfaces, each capable of 56 Gigabytes/second.
I work on GDDR memory (not at Micron or Tesla) so when I saw a familiar part number, I figured I'd share what I can! Thanks for the presentation!
If I can tack on some more technical details, those are 16Gb (Gigabit), not 16GB (Gigabyte) modules. It seems like a LOT of people commonly conflate these two units, but the difference is a factor of 8 (a byte is 8 bits).
The capacity of memory modules is usually measured in bits, not bytes.
Dave has all the skills of a master lecturer with all the knowledge necessary to explain things thoroughly. a true joy to watch and listen to..
also he did not serve us an advertisment ... unlike what this channel is starting and will become very shortly.. ( and props to munro sell out and make its money for old man and company ) but my eyes will stay in the future shill free..
did not need a battery bank.. dont need a shaver... come on.. if you want rev from advertiment.. make a separate sponsored video and tear it down and say whats good about it!!! we would find value in that and so woud they !!! KEEP TRUE TO YOUR VISION
Oh David! That was frakking awesome thank you for your kaupapa. Now repeat after me "I will start my journey to health with 6 squats a morning in the shower...😍😇😎 We need you dude.🤠
Exactly when he saw the General Public License he get a disorder!
Their entire team is so well media trained, it's impressive.
Dave seems awesome! More Dave tech spec content! !!!
Agreed
YES!
I just received an an e mail from the regional sales manager categorically stating the the upcoming delivery of my new model s will have HW4 but no USS or RADAR !!!! Needless to say i cancelled the order forfeiting my deposit
Excellent teamwork. As someone who works in an adjacent sector to Dave's work, I give kudos for explaining it details very well.
One of the best episodes! Dave was great. I learned a lot.
More Dave videos, please! He's a great teacher. Thanks.
You have such good timing! So many times I take a break and want a bit of quality 'TV' and see a Munro post within the last 10 or 20 minutes. Good Job!
Cory, Dave, you guys make watching technical detail stuff like diving into HW3 and HW4 differences interesting, even for someone who has no knowledge of car internals. Thnx to the team at Munro making very interesting observations and showing design decisions I have been looking with a total different eye at my own car . Thanks for all your excellent and detailed critical reviews that you brought to us. I would never image siting through hours of video’s of guys showing me car bodies and how well or not so well they were put together. I especially liked what you showed how getting rid of a few small parts that cast a few dollars end up saving the company millions of dollars. And we’re talking just about the part cost. But leaving out the handling and manufacturing of these parts will make out an ever bigger cost saving and even time saving. This brings Elon’s mantra “ the best part is no part” even more home.
Another articulate, personable and well organised expert. You guys are loaded with talent. 🤩😍🤩
Thank you so much 🤗
If I have multiple notifications for TH-cam MUNRO LIVE always gets watched first. Always an articulate expert who can explain the unexplainable to us nerds out here.
Wow!!! Wonderful presentation. More Dave and Cory thanks Sandy
great videos as usual, nice to see another member of the Monroe team.
Much appreciated!
all of these non-sandy videos have been getting even better!
Great job Dave. Phenomenal information.
Excellent work as always from Munro team. Much appreciated.
Our pleasure!
The Joy of watching intelligent people speaking on interesting things. Glad to be here.
Thanks for answering the question at the end about a retrofit for the current owners of Teslas. Great presentation. The future upgrades for FSD looks exciting with potential improvements.
Great presentation. Could you do a show about the technical differences between the old Tesla radar and the new Tesla radar? For example: What the new radar can see vs what the old radar can see?
I want that video too!
Thanks! Amazing stuff, we can always count on Munro to be informative and interesting to watch, thanks!
We try our best, thank you for watching!
Thank you Dave and Cory, but especially Dave, for the insight and breakdown of the HW4 system. I don't come from an engineering background (but from a lower level tech background) but this channel has become my go-to for learning all kinds of engineering and is always a pleasure to watch. Should be required viewing for young and old aspiring engineers alike. Big thumbs up!
Great to see another Munro expert on the channel. 👍🏽
Great to meet and learn so much from Dave. He's super knowledgeable and a nice guy. Cory was great as always. All of you guys at Munro & Associates make a great team including the head honcho himself, the much admired and respected Sandy. Keep up the great work.
Thanks Corey and Dave, great info. I saw some chatter on social media about HW4 and I'm so glad to have a Munro Live video on the topic so I don't have to waste hours sifting through uninformed opinions!
Our pleasure!
Dave Great video and insights. Munro is truly the gold standard and offers excellent insight and information! Thanks very much
Love the video! "Unique New York" is an old acting exercise btw. Anchorman was using that as it's a standard pre-show warm up :)
Dam- as always another #masterclass. And.. more Corey / Dave duo please! First time I’ve watched Dave here and much like the whole Munro crew- just a true master at his craft. Not a single media channel even comes close! To steal a Elon quote- second place needs a telescope to catch a glimpse of you guys. Just awesome!
Dave is awesome!
You probably already have this thought.
My thoughts on the more RAM is
1. Higher resolution camera= more needed memory
2. Often sometimes when you redesign something, the older version of chips is going to be end of life soon and so it makes sense to plan new items with the current version so it's supported for 5 years or so. Also, it may actually be cheaper.
A wonderful watch from the UK. Would love to watch a live show of you guys in the UK. Good stuff Dave.
Dave, excellent presentation and in depth knowledge. As a network engineer with over 40 yrs experience, I remember this LAN technology pronounced E’-ther-net vs eth-er-net.
This was extremely insightful. Thank you Dave!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent review of changes, much appreciated! Wouldn't be surprised to see they moved to 7nm process, since the phone and gpu industry has left that node, it's got to be cheap from Samsung.
Excellent work, Dave!
Really enjoyed this. Thanks to you both.
@ 1:18 _"Talk to our team"_ You might have been right the first time ;)
I was so in tune with the the two that I almost forget to thumbs up the this breakdown video. Thanks!!
Glad it was helpful!
The best channel to learn. I can’t believe we get this kind of content for free! So thankful for Monroe’s team, very informative and well presented video
Our pleasure!
Almost teared up at the end. You guys are so lucky to be doing something you guys love together with people you like.
Thank you Munro team great informational video! 😁🙏🏼🙋🏻♂️
Our pleasure!
This upgrade in the npu and the cpu makes complete sense now with the parameter count of fsd 12.5 increasing 5x if i remember correctly and just to think that they still haven't tapped into the full potential of this computer is insane,which means that it will only get better as more months pass
Well explained Dave. Munro live in general is one of the best channels on TH-cam today. All of them are extremely intelligent & so professional. In regards too the HW4, I believe Musk did say it was not something that could be retro fitted.
This was excellent, please more! Super interesting to see the boards and chips.
Great analysis from Dave! I really appreciate the other Munro team members sharing there deep knowledge and insights openly to the community like this and getting to see all of the new faces! :) thank you to all the Munro team
Fantastic ending to the video. Great job on this one.
This was great! Rivian ADAS and infotainment system teardown next?
I like that we can see and understand what Dave's talking about.
(When Uncle Sandy went through the interior of the Audi in an earlier vid, that wasn't always the case.)
Thanks for the analysis
15:30 When they removed the radar, Elon said (June 2021) that "Vision has become so good that radar actually reduces signal/noise." He later (Feb 2022) said that "Only very high resolution radar is relevant." One year later, here we are with the relevant technology to improve the signal-to-noise ratio.
Could you do a episode on the differnt communication protocols and how they reduce wire size and amount? I likes davids analysis on this.
Awesome stuff! Thanks gentlemen!
Our pleasure!
Many many thanks Cory and Dave. Learned a lot more about HW4 from your video. Kudos to greentheonly for his scoop on this new tech from Tesla. :)
That was a really informative video, I hope Dave improves his health a little to be more comfortable and to keep providing his great knowledge.
One of the best videos you've done 👍
Wow, thanks!
Thanks Dave
I hope the add-on buttons,as seen in the ad, will be available for other car makers and not just Tesla. With buttons, you can still look straight ahead while driving instead of looking at the touch screen.
Interesting
More EE stuff please! Great info.
Expecting new model y LR with HW4 . Superexcited. I hope model Y will also have RADAR
Great job Dave!
160 watts idle consumption is notable. For context, when I am being mindful I am able to get one mile for 210 watts in my Model 3.
160 watts maximum, not average. However your point is well taken. Really don't know what average will be.
I had the same initial impression, but over an hour of city driving at 30mph you'll use 6300 watt hours of energy (30mph * 210W/mi) which is comprised of both the 65watts of HW3 FSD, plus 6235 Watts for the drive motors plus everything else. If the new computer actually uses the full 160 watts, then the example of 1 hour of city driving increases to 6395 watts (160-65 = 95 extra watts for HW4) or about 213 watts/mile. At highway speed the slight increase in computer power is even a smaller fraction of total energy usage. Not too bad for better FSD performance
cory doing some shaping work hot damn your effort is impressive and he's blasting with confidence and competence
Please don't forget that this module is going to be used in different cars. That it supports a dozen cameras doesn't mean it will have so many when in a sedan/SUV. Maybe the CyberTruck needs one more camera and the Semi needs 3 more.
This is a great and detailed description of HW4. You guys bring so much to the party. 😎
That programmable button advert has to be the first YT ad worth seeing.
Likely that this is specifically designed for the cybertruck. If you think about why they need more cameras it could be due to how high the truck sits to see blind spots to prevent hitting small people.
Outstanding video gentlemen.
Super info/video!! Thanks a million!
Glad you enjoyed it!
So I guess Munro has a new Y/3 to pick up in the future lol. I wonder how long it'll take to trickle down from the S/X though
They word is "All cars produced in the summer", so Q3?
@@rogerstarkey5390 whose word said "summer" ?
“Windfall for Tesla “. Is that the shareholder - or the owner of the vehicle ?
What’s the second hand value of your FSD now that it’s not going to deliver as previously ‘suggested’ ?
Amazing analysis! Thank you for the great job you do!
👍Good stuff, congratulation! 👏
Thank you! 👍
Great job explaining the new hardware Dave!!!!
Thanks for this interesting video.
By the way: What's the story behind the olympic rings?
NEED MORE DAVE! 🙌 NEED MORE DAVE! 🤘
Great video as always.
Thanks again!
Respect to the "sexy bottons" people! Almost everybody is rightly complaining about the severe over-reduction of buttons. It would never have ocurred to me to come up with a solution for that problem, but in the instant i saw the ad, it makes perfect sense, and doesn't look too technically complcated to solve.
A great idea. I hope they're succesful.
Dang what a awesome surprise was wanting to take a peak at hw4 for some time now love the work y’all do. Also yea tesla for L they are amazing.
AFA the GPU/CPU not upgrading, that can likely upgrade later too if they want to add more horsepower. Dave was fantastic, and should consider doing an occasional video in the future.
Agree on all counts of your guys analysis. The unknowns are exactly the camera number and placement. Will be interesting to see when these cars with HW4 hit the streets. And then again when Cybertruck hits the street. I'm very curious to see if they adjust the camera placements to some degree, with CT. It would make it messy for the software team though.. to have to deal with a different hardware setup.. so it's unlikely.. but I'll be curious to see if the stand vehicles setup can deal with the towing applications well.
Quality⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Shout out to Dave. Brilliant.
Thanks for detailed explanation! So helpful & beneficial!
A fine presentation, Dave. And Cory.
Keep bringing Dave on Live!!!
“Unique New York” isn’t from Anchorman. It has existed for decades, perhaps more, before that movie came out.
The backplates don't press the chip. They support the pcb and allow you to press the cooler onto the chip without worrying about the pcb flexing under the chip and the bga solder joints coming loose.
I love these deep tech dives.
love this dude.... more of him.. he brings no BS and facts... also he did not serve me an add.. (cory)...
speculation on my part, but if FSD (if it ever comes) needs the better CPU cores and a few minor changes, I bet they can make a 3.5 board with the those chips to retrofit. Maybe remove the chips for the (low res) radar if they need some space.
Hmm... If I recall correctly, Elon suggested that he wanted to get rid of sensor inputs that complicated or conflicted the AutoPilot. He intimated that vision only needed to be mastered first, then add any additional sensors as needed or that would enhance the process. I don't think he ever said vision only. But i do remember him saying that LIDAR was a waste - at least at the state it was in at the time.
Just to say thank you, DAVE ,
you too Cory
I think the 'white space' on the board is due to the fact that as you integrate more components onto the custom chips the total component count goes down.
But the physical size of the board stays the same.....
Are you guys going live on march 1st for the Tesla’s announcements
one thing I noticed just now that Tesla uses two different compute architectures for FSD vs entertainment, Arm vs AMD x86. Samsung Exynos is fabbed by Samsung while AMD is fabbed by TSMC. It would make sense if they just use one considering Chinese EVs use Arm for entertainment computer and also autonomous driving computer.
Earlier leaks suggested the HW4 FSD computer is no longer fabbed at Samsung 14nm like HW3 was, but they have contracted TSMC and use their 4nm/5nm process.
I'm very happy to hear that Linux is being used here.
Unless I’m missing something; the board connector to the HW 3.0 for the Rayzen/Radeon infotainment was exclusive to the Model S/X refresh series. These are lower-volume, presumably higher margin vehicle sales, so, the cost saving doesn’t translate to nearly as many units. However, as Tesla seems to like to vertically integrate across its entire lineup of vehicles, this makes bringing the upgraded hardware to the Model 3/Y for the aforementioned reasons in the video. Just smart design otherwise. Fascinating still that Elon Musk has suggested HW 4.0 will come to Cybertruck and it’s manufacturing rollout first.
Keep the Computer videos coming. Some of us out here are computer nuts.
Any plans for EV charger tear downs?
We will be doing an Home EV charger teardown series soon.
Very useful 👍
I would think they would put cameras in the headlights and taillights. It would keep wiring simpler, no special bumper molding, less aerodynamic drag and also protect the cameras.