Comment your favorite joke from this video below! Also! Seeing a lot of people commenting (very respectfully, which I appreciate 😊) saying that I missed the point of this episode’s conflict. I understand that Hawkeye didn’t want Mustang to kill Envy because it’d send him down a dark path -I just never really like that sort of conflict in shows. It feels overdone, like we see that conflict everywhere and it never really interests me (like how Batman’s always like “I wanna kill da jokah but dat’ll make me dah bad guy!”). Plus, I just don’t agree with Hawkeye. Mustang’s smart enough and in control of his emotions enough to handle killing envy - he proved that with his post Ishval redemption arc. It could be argued that this moment is an example of him SLIPPING back into pre-redemption Mustang, which I’m sure is the point, but I just wish it was done in a less contrived and generic way. “You shouldn’t kill Envy, let me do it!” Is just a little boring to me. I think a stronger example was when Mustang torched the zombies and went “it had to be done, they’re the enemy” THAT went super hard. Like I said though, I appreciate you all being respectful in discussing this with me :)
Not a clip. But i wanted to say thanks for this video. In a rough place after my car got hit and run while i was in the store yesterday, I really needed a shot of dopamine, and this gave it to me
Fun fact:in the manga the chapter ended with Hawkeye saying” when we’re alone he calls me Risa” and then it ended. All the fans and shippers went crazy that week only for the next chapter to start with “I lied” lol
@@CHEESEPUFF_7 yep!! It drove the manga readers insane especially since we had to wait a whole week for the next chapter to upload. Lol she broke a lot of hopes and dreams with two words.
@@allenend67Holy Shit, the rapid speculation in the forums could power the country for that month. Everyone had 57 theories and ALL were WRONG! Memories
@@SaveMeMoon I'd guess it was a change between when the manga was coming out serially and when it got put into book form. I think FMA was originally published in a magazine weekly.
The difference between killing Lust and killing Envy is that when he killed Lust he was doing so to protect others, while in this case he's doing it out of hatred. Envy has already been rendered harmless, so there's no point in killing Envy except to satisfy his anger, while in the case of Lust killing her was the only way to stop her. This is also why it's okay for Riza to kill Envy: her motivation isn't hatred.
Okay, but the reason that it's so important Mustang isn't driven by anger and hatred is so he doesn't become like Wrath. The atrocities committed by Wrath as the Fuhrer is what drove Mustang to want to take down the government in the first place, so he could rebuild a better one. But if he acts out of hate and anger he will only become the thing he wanted to destroy. The point of Mustang choosing not to kill Envy is to show he will not be like Wrath.
The only issue I have is that there IS GOOD REASON TO KILL ENVY. Even outside of revenge, everyone there has seen him come back to his full form from that worm state. I get that they were trying to stop Mustang from falling into hatred, but it felt so annoying when I watched it
It's not just the protecting vs revenge thing, it's also the torture he puts Envy through. With Lust, he was fighting to win and survive. It wasn't about hurting her. With Envy, he was playing with his food and prolonging the pain. If he had finished Envy off quickly, it wouldn't have been an issue, but the longer he dragged the fight on, the deeper into hatred and Wrath he would fall into
Supposedly, the way that Mustang's flame alchemy works is that he transmutes compounds in the air into compressed channels of flammable gasses, then when he rubs the tips of his gloves together, it creates a spark that ignites them. The snap is really just for style to make the spark.
Mustang's flame alchemy is basically changing the compounds in the air, basically transmuting the air composition itself. While most alchemist transmute solid matter, Mustang transmutes gases which is why his alchemy is basically rare, hard, and powerful. His gloves just give of sparks to start a reaction causing the transmuted gases to ignite and burn.
The sheer number of calculations that the formula he uses must take into account and his impressive control of it is... staggering. Alchemy is practically no difference from magic, but the hard science necessary to make the base formula of each circle is CRAZY to think of. Even with the explanation that he makes pathways for the flames, the fact that he can contain them into them shows the absurd control he has. Because if he lets out even for a second, by making the wrong pathways or letting the flames alive for too long... only tragedy waits.
I'd argue Mustang not killing Envy is less about not killing them and more about not slaughtering an enemy when they're beaten down and defenseless. Remember Ishval? That was when he decided he'd become Führer, specifically so that there'd be no more of that slaughter. Now that he is closest to achieving his goal, it is important for him to actually stick to his ideal, even when it's inconvenient.
Normally, I tend to side with Danny on the whole "taking the moral high ground is stupid and uninteresting" notion, but in this case it wasn't just about moral superiority, it was also a political move, which does make the decision way more interesting. A morally superior move driven by morally grey desires. We've also already seen Mustang kill a homunculus in this exact way, if he did it again there would be no time to explore the consequences as the story is nearing the end and there's already so much to cover. Mustang not killing Envy in the way he did with Lust shows his arc in this last half of the story.
@@HF-rr6kt Why though? We've already had a chance to see him "become wrath" with Maria Ross, and he didn't. Envy is the one character in the show who deserves this treatment more than anyone else. A heroic fight where one of the most unrepentant evil characters in the whole show gets put to justice. That's how this entire thing should have been framed What makes the situation here any different from when Olivier killed Raven? Or when Roy killed Lust? Because Roy was just angrier when it happened? It's a weak, sanctimonious attempt to close out Roys arc, and explain the basis of Envy's defining trait. That's all this entire section seems out to accomplish
@@tonberry2670 The fundamental difference is that Luat was an active threat, Olivier is painted as a violent person. Mustang, particularly Fuhrer Mustang, needs to be an institution above personal revenge to avoid becoming a Tyrant. It is not a case of whether Envy deserves it, Hawkeye literally said she would kill him. It is a case of whether Roy should be allowed to be the one to do it.
Roy Mustang not killing Envy ties into the show's concept of "The chain of Hatred". The reason everyone stopped him from killing Envy is because revenge won't help him, but consume him instead and Scar is the perfect example of that. It is almost a cliche, but an important one. Throughout the story, we want to see Roy kill Envy, but when the time comes, he isn't allowed that "satisfaction". Just because he's justified in doing something, doesn't mean it's the best for him and his friends know that. Letting Roy kill Envy could arguably turn him into Scar or even Wrath when he reaches the top. It would harm everything him and Hughes stood up for
We could also apply similar paragon logic to Mustang that we could a Superman/Batman. The point isn't even necessarily "Ooo killing will make you evil", it's really about setting an example and being the best version of a person. Batman's entire story is basically a morality play, trying to prove that Gotham can be better. Inflicting his own justice through vigilante murder, regardless of how right it is, would fail that goal; basically he would just be Light Yagami at that point, culling criminality through fear and death. Superman on the other hand is basically a god, so the whole idea behind his morality is that he MUST be the best role model possible, because if he can't be better then what hope do the puny mortals have.
@@Vael221neither one of those philosophies actually go anywhere in real life, killing someone who is a mass murderer like the joker is not a bad move. If I killed hitler, you think anybody would call me bad, or wrong. You think ppl would really consider me to be “consumed by hatred” if I killed Christopher Columbus, or Jeffrey dahmer, or like anybody else known for atrocities like the joker. No, they wouldn’t, in fact most ppl would probably thank me for it. And for Superman, that makes even less sense cuz he’s not a god at all, he’s an alien, with different dna that allows him to absorb solar radiation and turn it into power, he is so fundamentally different from humans, why the fuck would anything he does have any reflection on the abilities of humanity. That’s like saying, if a bird can’t push its wings up and fly, what help do any of us puny mortals have😂. Or like saying if an elephant, the strongest animal on the planet, can no longer use its strength, what help do us puny humans have😂it just doesn’t make sense, very little correlation. I’m NOT saying your wrong about the theme of the comics, just saying those themes hold little to no value in life, it’s just tv being tv
@Vael221 well said. I always get annoyed with whole "Batman is stupid for not killing criminals". He turns them over to the police, so it's Gothem's job to deal with them not Batman. Yet no one talks about how stupid Gotham is for not giving the Joker the Death Penalty, but will criticize Batman.
We’re definitely in the hype now!Mustang not killing Envy is less about “uwu revenge bad” and more about “my dude you are this close to going off the deep end, at this point you’re just enjoying torturing an enemy while they’re down. Go take a walk, we’ll end this clean”. A Mustang who wants to be the fuhrer, supposedly to protect the people (his pyramid scheme speech to Hughes) can’t afford to enjoy torture porn this much this close to his goal. Even in Ishval, he didn’t *enjoy* it when he tortured people. He can’t be a monster who enjoys torturing someone like that AND be the kind of fuhrer he dreamed about being. That’s why Hawkeye aimed her hun at him: he asked her to shoot him if he strays from the way, all those years ago. She will keep this promise. Also Hawkeye’s entire “I won’t go on without you, if you die I kill myself after this fight” thing isn’t new. I don’t know if you remember all the way back during the Lust fight, Hawkeye lost the will to live entirely when she thought he died. She’s been borderline suicidal for years.
People also forget that Hawkeye also was threatening him because he was LITERALLY about to kill himself with Envy under his foot. If he snapped Envy, not a CHANCE Mustang wouldn’t be taking the same hit. And then he threatens the same fate to Ed no hesitation. If you don’t let me kill Envy, you die too. (Yes he said burn your arm, but considering the fire power, I doubt Mustang wouldn’t have overdone it and got Ed in full.
@@Kaempfdog Agreed he threatened to hurt both Ed and Hawkeye when they got in his way. And when saw Hawkeye injured he didn't even bother to check on her but rather used her injury as further reason to incinerate envy
he totally can?? envy killed hughes, why the hell would mustang not enjoy torturing a terrible person💀 because envy’s literally the one initiating mustangs anger continuously even while he’s getting beaten up like bro riza’s a terrible person for not letting mustang kill envy
mustangs killing lust was absolutely badass. mustang pursuing and killing envy was so brutal and shows really well how easy it is to snap and lose control in extreme situations,it is so so well done
my feelings for lust was "wow mustang is a bad ass" my feelings for envy are "wow mustang is fucking horrifying" The scene of Hawkeye almost crying at the sheer violence of the execution she's watching is so chilling to me every time
There have been a couple comments about the Mustang not killing Envy point, but another thing to remember is that Mustang specifically asked Hawkeye to help keep him on the right path and to (literally) shoot him if he strays. That if he's ever motivated by hatred like this then he's not fit to be in a position of power and can no longer make the country better or atone for his sins (war crimes). Her pointing the gun at him was her fulfilling her promise. The whole conversation isn't about having a moral high ground by not being a killer (the room is literally filled with killers), it's about stopping him from cementing himself as being fueled by hatred. FMAB has such a wide range of moral perspectives that the fact that everyone in the room is in agreement that Mustang needs to chill tf out is a testament to what's happening to him mentally. And re: Hawkeye not wanting to continue living after this if she has to go through with shooting Mustang-she doesn't want to have to continue living with all the atrocities she's committed, but especially so if she has to kill the one person she's dedicated herself to. In her mind, if she loses Mustang, she loses her purpose and would only be left with the worst her life has had to offer her. GAHHHH I love them so much is physically hurts.
This is a fantastic explanation actually. I did always think it felt a bit convoluted that someone else had to do the exact same thing, but it being more about Mustang proving himself.
@@TheDreamingDaysWe're not saying he shouldn't have a different opinion. We're just explaining the situation because he didn't understand it. Shouldn't people understand the situation their judging?
@@xdustyx2982 It is patronizing to assume someone does not understand something just because they interpret it differently than you. Not liking something does not equal not 'getting it'.
I think the point of the end of the Envy fight wasn't "we don't kill" or anything like that. It's more "Kill because you have to. Not out of revenge. Not in anger." Lust fought until she was gone. There was no way to stop the zombies without killing them. But Envy was beaten. They weren't a danger anymore, not immediately. And Mustang would have vented all his grief through rage. It would have changed him as a person. In a way he's been trying to recover from since Ishval. And stopping him from becoming worse again was the primary task he gave Hawkeye. She's not there to protect him (though she does that as well). She's there to remind him that he's not a weapon of mass destruction, but a person. And as a person he has to face his grief and work through it. And if she can't keep him human, it's her job to make sure that he can't be anything else. Ever again. And at all other times, even in this time, Roy trusts her to make that call. I love these two so much.
Someone at least shouldve put down Envy instead of talk-no-jutsu'ing himself into doing it for them. I dont think a sadistic, void of empathy Homunculus is something you want to let live. Especially knowing how dangerous Envy is and that if left alone, he can come back from that form. If not Mustang, then fine. But SOMEONE should have
Envy literally came back from the same state like 2 episodes before, kill him. It was a dumb and lame as forced “don’t kill or you’ll become bad” stupid ass trope. I hate it
@@joelzabik1341 That only happened because they'd handed Envy to a child. They would not make that mistake again. I'm pretty sure either Ed or Riza would have finished the job, they just could not let Roy do it in that state of mind.
Remember, from the beginning, Mustang asked EVERY homunculus he met whether they knew who Hughes was or if they killed him. Vengeance was already in his mind but he wasn't consumed by it yet. When Envy confirmed that he did it, that gave Mustang a target. If Mustang had killed Envy right then and there, he would just become another Bradley. Another wrathful dictator to continue the cycle of war and PTSD.
I don't think Mustang would've gone as ballistic either had Envy not mocked using Gracia Hughes form to kill Maes. Mustang knew Maes wife and daughter were his world. Knowing Envy killed his best friend via leveraging Maes love for his family was probably why he went from "I'm going to roast you and give you as quick of death like Lust" to "I'm going to commit war crimes".
My favorite parts of this whole fight were Mustang refusing to even let Envy get in a witty villain monologue by just hitting him mid-sentence over and over, and then Hawkeye's "I lied **gunshot*" Like that was so clever and so funny
What I think should be brought up is the symmetry of Lust and Envy's fights. When fighting Lust, Roy was cold, focused, and determined. Meanwhile, Riza was broken by the seeming reality of Roy's death, and lashed out without any of that. Against Envy, it's now Roy who's losing himself to his emotions due to the loss of his friend still scarring his heart, to the point of losing sight of why he fought and focused on personal revenge. Meanwhile, Riza was the one who was cold and focused, never losing sight. And something that was missed but Riza made it clear that Envy was NOT walking away. She fully intended on killing the Homunculus herself but... well, something you probably didn't notice is that _Roy wasn't out to kill Envy, he was out to torture him to death._ That's why he didn't do the flame spam until after Riza was in danger. He wasted time and Riza got put in danger, which likely only made his rage stronger. He could have probably killed him far more effectively if he wanted to, and minimized the chance of Riza being at risk, if he focused on incinerating Envy immediately... but the tongue and the eyes being his first targets made it clear that a quick, efficient death was not on his mind. That's why everyone stopped him in the end and called him out. And why one argument that should have been made was 'if you really just wanted to kill him, Envy would already have been dead'. Because Roy was letting his rage control his actions... or rather, his Wrath. It also, in the end, takes away the only possible victory Envy could have had: Envy's specialty is inciting conflict, driving people apart, escalating things and making people kill each other for Father's plans. But here, right at the end, he finally loses the ability to do that. It's why he desperately tries to get everyone to fight each other at the end, in part (as well as the fact that he doesn't understand how someone can just... let go of their hatred). He's not even that hateable anymore, seen as nothing but a pathetic green slug that desires to be a part of a world he will never belong to. And that is what crushes his soul... and, well, drives him to crush his stone.
I'm a bit disappointed Danny missed the point of the episode. I'm not good at explaining like others here, but I wanted to say, anyway: the story wasn't saying Envy shouldn't die. It was about Mustang not losing himself to his hatred and wrath. It was about Envy being weaker and smaller than humanity because he couldn't understand our empathy and connection. That's why it wasn't a fight. The fight, the coolness, it wasn't the point. That's what makes it the most powerful episode in the series, for me. Because Mustang was cool and the fight was hype, and yet watching him burn Envy, all I could feel was dread. I feared he would lose himself to his hate, and so when Hawkeye and Ed come in to stop him, and he regains himself, it's such a relief. It's very well-written. I do see why Danny felt the way he felt, I'm just disappointed he either didn't notice or didn't care about the... subtext? The purpose, I guess, of the scene.
Danny did not miss the point. He simply dislikes the storytelling trope that was used. Just a matter of different tastes, no need for an overblown explanation of your interpretation. The "oh no don't kill the bad guy" trope is overdone and corny.
@@TheDreamingDays completely agree. This conversation was redundant and just an excuse to push the message of not finishing off the villain when they had a chance. The who thing about Roy becoming just like Bradley annoyed me because unlike the former Furher, Roy has no reason to become like him or any of the other homunculi. I like Fullmetal Alchemist but this is something I think the 2003 series had over Brotherhood, Ed ended up breaking his own code when he killed Greed and Sloth because it was just something he had to do for the better. It felt more realistic in it's development for Ed whenever he was out in those situations and felt damn near real.
Danny’s right This wasn’t even a fight This was Mustang unleashing MONTHS of repressed emotions on his best friend’s killer and said killer becoming the main dish at the BBQ 🍖 This was absolutely Mustang’s time to shine Also can we appreciate Danny being an official member of the Roy x Riza fan club? 😂 he was legitimately ready to rage if one of them died in those episodes and I’m kinda digging it
I think it was less of the issue for Ed (and certainly not an issue for Hawkeye) that he wanted to kill Envy. The issue was for the motivation. When he killed Lust, it was for defending people, he was not emotional at that point, he was simply a soldier doing what was the best in the situation. With Envy, it was personal, it was his hate burning Mustag up from the inside, it was the fire that was taking him over, and that was not the path he was meant to go. Danny probably forgot, but Mustang told Hawkeye that she had his back, and that meant that she could shoot him if he strayed from the path the wanted to go. Being a soldier for the people was that path, not the killer for his own vengeance. Using his position for his personal emotions was exactly what Mustang wanted to go against, so if he now killed Envy for his own satisfaction, he became what he wanted to fight. So, it was not really about them feeling bad for Mustang to kill Envy, but rather that he would set precedent when his emotions became more important than his duty.
If envy has no fans then i'm dead. Goodbye to one of my favorite characters, and yes i agree with danny- his voice is super attractive. Also love the mustang moments
(S)he appears to be the most popular Homunculus :) my favourite is Lust and Envy comes second, yet I can see why (s)he's a fan-favourite. And yes, the dubbed voice couldn't have been chosen better.
Envy has always had a soft spot in my heart. Everyone talks about "well he did all these awful things!" Like yeah, so did most of our main cast at some point. The point is they chose to be better and that's why you root for them now. And Envy literally takes their own life because they WANTED to be better, but thought by nature that would mean forsaking what he had for an impossible task. In another timeline maybe Ed could've caught on sooner when Envy wasn't so low mentally and they could've built a redemption story about how if you want all that love and support in your life, that mental strength, you have to earn it and start somewhere. It isn't a natural "gift" only given to certain people.
OHH I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS Edit: it wasn't about envy's death, it was about the torture that mustang enjoyed putting them through. also, funnily enough you were in the same exact headspace as envy, bc they also wanted mustang to do it, to drown in his own fury and drop to their level. i understand wanting to see the character go down this road, but i personally think it was the perfect resolution. anyway, great video and reaction
Just for context, the argument wasn't about not killing Envy on principle, but more Mustang doing it for the wrong reasons. Killing Envey would be an act of pure rage and hatred, rather than removing the threat that Envy poses to the world, he would ultimately become what Scare was at the start of the series if he had gone through with it. None of them disagree with the notion that Envy was too dangerous and had to go, but it was more about saving Mustang's soul than it was about saving Envy.
I mean i do get the thing about mustang but also imo it was rly important for him to stick to his morals after Ishval instead of being consumed by revenge. We are not gonna explore the world when he is in charge so there is no point making him suffer the consequences of killing envy. this would just destroy his development. While he was killing Lust to survive, he was just needlessly toying and torturing Envy for his own satisfaction so there is a difference in the end.
The differnece between killing Lust and killing Envy is that at the end, Envy was helpless. Lust was in full fight when Mustang killed her, it was a combatdeath. With Envys tiny form, it would be an execution and that _is_ different. There are clear indicators that if Mustang crosses that threshhold, there will be no coming back
No excuse for what he did to Lust (probably the most beautiful woman in the history of anime). Wanted to pick up both her and Envy, then take them to my empire of roses and red water.
Sure, but he can still escape as the little worm. He escaped capture before. Eliminating that possibility fast should be a priority over stopping Mustang to have an ethics argument. It is a bad storytelling beat. @@saiyasha848
20:40 "Mustang, kill everyone in this room right now" is kind of the exact reason he can't kill Envy. They are not saying that Envy shouldn't be killed but that Roy is in the wrong headspace to make that choice at all. Someone willing to kill everyone in that room cannot be trusted to make decisions over life and death.
It wasn’t really a “killing is wrong” situation, they were trying to keep Mustang from becoming the type of person who’d kill someone out of anger. There’s a difference between killing out of necessity and doing it based on emotion. No one had a problem with him killing Lust because in that case, he was protecting Hawkeye and Al. Here, he was going out of his way to make Envy suffer because he wanted to, which while not completely undeserved, could lead him down a much darker path if he kept going with this mentality
Personally i get not caring for the moral philosophizing in this episode. I agree with the shows general "revenge=bad" thing and while i do like this moment i get how it can come across to someone who isnt as on board with the idea. That said, one fully pragmatic condemnation of mustangs actions i never see anyone bring up? He's wasting time. We saw him take lust from what seemed to be full power to nothing in what seemed like about a minute tops. Theres no reason to think he couldn't do the same now, but instead he's letting his emotions get the better of him and using valuable time they may not have to spare to get off on torturing this asshole.
The joy across Danny's face as he is watching Mustang Flambe Envy is everything I wanted and more. Just absolutely fantastic and happy to see you witnessing the meme in its full glory. Can't wait for you to finish the series!
I'm really sad about the "tongue bubbling grease" line, it's one of the few cases where I really prefer the writing in the sub: "I'd say that tongue of yours has gotten nice and greasy. It burns so well, doesn't it, Envy?:
There's a difference between killing an enemy because you need to, and doing it while you're indulging in violent hatred. Scar and Hawkeye would have been totally okay with killing Envy because, yeah "we won't kill the bad guy" is often bullshit, but it's *why* you're doing it that matters.
@@TheDreamingDays The difference is what happens after- it's shown by him threatening Ed and Hawkeye, two of the people he cares most about, that he's been consumed by his hatred, blinded by his wrath in exactly the same way that Bradley is, that Scar was when he killed the Rockbells, and how Winry was when she was on the verge of killing Scar. Therefore, Hawkeye killing Envy is fine- he's a slippery enemy, a monster who needs to go down- but Mustang killing him would represent him going over the edge, completely and utterly unable to see anything but anger and hatred, starting the cycle again. To boil it down to "killing bad" despite the fact that they literally say that they're gonna kill Envy anyway is just a flat misinterpretation of the work
Since so many others have brought up the point behind the whole "Mustang shouldn't be the one to kill Envy thing" (which I agree with) I'll focus instead on Envy's side of the episode. Particularly, I liked how the writer used Mustang's absolute flambéing of Envy as a way for sweet, sweet catharsis, which is why it was so hype despite lacking tension of a traditional fight, added with the ethical question it posed about killing out of hate as opposed to killing out of necessity. I also liked how the sins of each Homunculus, is deconstructed, with maybe the exception of Lust. Pride, the oldest homunculus is the smallest in stature, Sloth is the laziest but the fastest and probably physically strongest, and for Envy the very shapeshifting that made him so dangerous was ultimately just Envy taking on any different shape other than his true form. A truly jealous creature that couldn't stand to be what he was and wanted so desperately to be something else, so much so that once he himself realized it, he ended his own life rather than continue on. Spectacular.
ik this comment is almost a year old but I’ve seen a couple people suggest that lust’s downfall was her own BLOODlust. she decided to be sadistic and let mustang bleed out instead of just finishing the job when she had the chance
The beauty of the Humunculi is in their demise. Lust was destroyed while trying to come between two people close to one another and tear them apart (Hawkeye and Mustang) Gluttony, who constantly devoured everything in sight, was devoured himself. Envy, who took joy in dividing humanity through their differences, was defeated when he came up against people who no longer bore that resentment for one another. Try as he did at the end to stoke one last fire, his words fell on deaf ears.
The point of the Envy thing is that Mustang was acting out of pure hatred and if he let that control him he'd go down a slippery slope like other men in power before him. He wasn't killing Envy because it was the right thing to do he was killing Envy because of personal vengeance and was losing sight of himself and his own goals in the process. He once asked Riza to be his moral judgment and to take him out should he ever go past the point of return, hence her pointing the gun at him here A lot of reactors seem to miss this because they get so caught up in the joy of Envy's suffering which is also. Sort of the point the show makes because you get so sucked into Mustang's mindset we the viewers forget how terrible this actually is especially given his own past of taking part in a genocide
3:45 the "103.1 The Whale" joke was good, but it gets better with the callback to it 5:28 you want me to shut down 103.1 "the whale"? and the "prank calling the government" bit was what made the first 103.1 the whale joke even better
You’re missing the point with the Mustang scene. It’s the very fact that Mustang thinks HE’S the one who needs to kill Envy that’s the problem. Like, he literally threatened to burn Ed’s arm off- to mutilate his subordinate- so he would get the chance. That mentality is what’s being called out.
LOL, the Envy cliffhanger isn't even the worst cliffhanger in this show! Also, Hawkeye totally would shoot Mustang in the head. When Mustang hired Hawkeye after the Ishvalan War, he made her promise that if he ever strayed from the path of trying to set things right after the damage caused by the war that he was trusting her to shoot him. Hawkeye was the one that showed Mustang the secrets of Flame Alchemy and Mustang was asking Hawkeye to be a check on that power, so he wouldn't abuse it again.
I think the thing we forget about Olivier is that she's an Armstrong. And has super strength. A sword can be deadly when your youngest family member can use a literal grand piano as a bludgeoning weapon.
The reason they don't want Roy doing it is because, he is basically the most powerful human on earth. It's the superman dilemma. If he wanted to kill everyone in that room, they could they not stop him, and If they can't trust him to control his emotions then he will become an even bigger threat then the current one down the line. What makes lust different is he wasn't emotionality unstable.
if your curious about mustang, he actually doesnt do flame alchemy, thats why he needs the flint spark gloves. his alchemy manipulates the chemical makeup of the air around him, altering it into something more flamable. then snaps to ignite. TLDR. he turns the oxygen into propane and applies fire
I think the reason why they stopped Mustang from killing Envy was because he was going to be consumed with anger if he let it keep going. Which is dangerous if he becomes the ruler of his land with absolute power willing to do anything to satisfy his anger. Like how Scar let his anger consume him he went on a rampant killing spree on any alchemist including alchemists that had nothing to do with Ishval, but solely for being an alchemist. Like imagine what would happen if rage induced mustang became the leader and makes the connection of "My best friend was murdered because of alchemy" while having absolute power what he could attempt to do.
It's amazing how many people don't understand WHY we don't want mustang to murder envy like this. It's not about the killing, it's about being held captive by your own hatred and vengeance. Revenge killing, in fiction at least, is generally NOT a good idea because the person who does the revenge killing is trapped by their own hatred. Take a look at Kratos from God of War. How many people were killed because of his lust for revenge?
This has been my favorite series of yours Danny. I watched FMAB with my college roommates some years ago and just went up to visit them last weekend. We ended up binge watching your entire playlist for hours and our stomachs hurt so much from laughing. Getting to watch someone experience this incredible story for the first time is awesome! Thank you for making our weekend so fun! (BTW, I saw you mentioned HOB Season 2 is coming--so stoked!)
Oh, that bit about not letting Mustang kill Envy? That had nothing to do with some stupid "killing is wrong" message. You're forgetting who's talking here: 3 mass murderes in one room. It's about Mustang having a freaking mental breakdown while he's doing it. He's spiraling. He needed to calm the f* down before he burns more than just Envy.
But stalling to finish off an active combatant (who has proven ability to escape and survive against the odds) is a bad choice, and pausing the progression of the episode to moralize over Mustangs emotional state is bad storytelling. It is a corny trope regardless of the minutiae of the reasons why it was used.
@@TheDreamingDays I can concede that the timing made it it a bit strange of a situation. But you should remember that it wasn't technically THEM stalling it; that was always Mustang. Compare him slowly burning Envy bit by bit to how quickly he disposed of Lust. Mustang was absolutely wasting time for the sake of revenge, and going through quite the breakdown in the process, Hawkeye and others were right to be concerned about his mental state. They were about to head out and meet the final boss: you gotta get your head straight ASAP Mustang.
I see where you are coming from. I would say that it is not THEM stalling or MUSTANG dragging it out. It is the Author's writing choice to stall the pacing of the story regardless of the character motivations used to do it. The pacing of a fight halting to have an ethical argument over Mustangs mental state is a bad storytelling choice. It is super preachy and badly executed. @@blueteller
My favorite thing after this episode is going back a few episodes and realizing they showed the teacher with the northern army in the dark. She was the person in the back with glowing red eyes
Kinda disappointed he didn’t show my favorite bit of the last episode, how Olivier rallied the central soldiers to fight alongside her, just shows how charismatic she is as a leader.
27:59 Danny talking about Mustang having thought about it himself hits alot harder if you've seen the 2003 FMA and you know what happens in the episode 15 flashback
I really hope that Hiromu's newest manga gets animated in a few years. It's called Yomi No Tsugai, or Daemons of the Shadowrealm. It definitely has the same vibe, especially with the main characters being siblings.
And envy ultimatly destroys itself They were still going to kill envy, they just didn't want Mustang to lose himself in the process. He wasn't just trying to kill envy, he was purposely targeting and torturing them. It was consuming him, and if he killed them while like that he'd almost certaintly go past an edge he can't ever truly come back from. Not in that time period where psycology wasn't yet understood enough for it
You know Danny, I've seen that controller around, I've heard good things, I even thought of getting it, but seeing a non tech TH-camr just flat out say they love it, yeah. You convinced me. Thank you. What a specific yet very well placed ad gosh darn.
in addition to what others have said, the thing about "you'll be just as bad as them" is like, Mustang is already horrible, the show has made this idea clear, and we know he knows this, we know it's his goal to ensure more people like him aren't created by this country anymore- *That's* why he needs to get a damn grip and realize he doesn't deserve to torture someone to death cause they hurt him personally, just to satisfy his own feelings
I get how what they say when they speak with Mustang looks like the rest of the predictable be "good don't do it" moments. I tend to see this scene a little deeper than that. They want envy dead, but killing him in the state he was in, the mentality he was in. That would have been the bone that breaks the camels back. And destroyed his humanity. Keeping him from conducting himself as he wished to while fixing the broken system that failed hues. It's less about a message of "killing or revenge is wrong" and more of a "Dig two Graves" kind of perspective on revenge to me. One of the better ones I've seen. I'd honestly be okay if this was yue only anime to adress it for alot of people. Because it's more layered than we normally see that particular trope delve. ❤ I get the other view of it too though. It does fall into the over done kind of category. It's just rarely done so well I can't help but praise this version.
this reaction ...how do i say.....it reminds me of how i felt when i first watched it as a 19 yr old. yeah i was mad they wouldn't let mustang kill envy.....but over the years...i grew up? I'm 35 now. Now I get their point regarding Mustang. Envy and Lust were different mindsets for Mustang, it's not the same thing. He harbored no emotion towards lust, he was just trying to save his friends. With Ed and Al, they have the naive notion that killing is never necessary, they're choosing the harder path. But the show itself is not trying to take some moral high ground regarding envy. It's not that killing the bad guy is a problem. It's Mustang's hatred. it's like danny isn't paying attention. There's a reason Scar is there. Murdering the bad guy is not the issue here. as Danny himself said, they're super okay with that. What they aren't okay with, is losing Mustang to his emotions and hatred. that's not a good leader. It would be like making the Scar from the beginning of the series into the fuhrer. It would be wrath all over again in the form of a man if mustang doesn't reign it in. Someone with as much destructive power and raw ambition needs to be kept on the straight and narrow or else he can literally destroy everything. EVEN MUSTANG UNDERSTANDS THIS which is why he humbled himself and put Riza in a position to keep him to shoot him in the back if he ever let himself become corrupted. man this reaction just enforces how I've felt about his reaction to this series sometimes....it's like watching a immature child react. A child that doesn't take time to understand the philosophy or moralistic dilemma's or the heart of the show, but just wants action. sometimes, not all the time, it's like a little kid watching and being mad at the talking scenes because there aren't any fight scenes. >
This is an extremely condescending comment. Danny simply has different tastes for this particular storytelling trope (be real it IS a corny trope). There is no need to talk down to him over it.
Hawkeye's "I lied" is PEAK I love that moment so much Comparing envy & lust's obliteration-via-mustang is always interesting to me b/c I'm like. The one person that considers Lust's death unsettling LMAO Mustang *did* need to be as brutal as he was, she would've killed them all if he hadn't, but the way the show sort of.. stretches it out? Has always felt unsettling to me. The camera lingers on Lust's burning body and screams for just a second or two too long for the hype to carry me through completely. (And I don't just mean the pause before her final lunge.) Note this isn't a bad thing - the unease enhances the scene for me, personally - but it IS a thing. It's brutal, but because it HAS to be. Mustang torturing Envy to death could've been the same - long, yes, but because of the nature of Homunculi, not because of twisted catharsis - but it wasn't. He wasn't eliminating an enemy so they could move forward and save the day, he was torturing someone to death for the pleasure of it. That's not the kind of person Ed or Hawkeye want Mustang to be. That's not who *Mustang* wants to be, outside the heat of the moment. Nobody's arguing that Envy didn't deserve it - just that Mustang shouldn't let himself fall like that. Not for anything. Especially not something as pathetic as Envy. I'm easily annoyed by "if we kill them we're just as bad as they are" logic too, tbh, but there are certain stories where it comes across as less of a moral high ground thing and more of a personal thing. Almost selfish, in a way. "I don't want this for me and you can't make me into something I don't want to be." It's not about what the bad guy has done or deserves -- it's about the would-be killer.
"This monologue involves too much breast squeezing" should be a comment every theater, film, and tv critic is forced to say every 100 reviews. They should have to find a place to fit it in. Please guys. I need us to make this happen.
Wildest part of the Envy revealing that they killed Hughes using the Gracia disguise is not once was it clarified that Hughes KNEW it was Envy, so Mustang probably still thinks that Hughes thought it was his own wife that killed him
@@thomaswillard6267 Yeah, HUGHES, knows but does Mustang know that Hughes knew, or does he think that Envy killed him while fully acting like his wife? That's what I wondered.
Well you mentioned it would be more interesting if Mustang would have killed Envy and then having consequences about it and learning the lesson the hardest way. That was exactly what Riza was trying to avoid, trying to protect him from. When I watched it the first time I was also excited to see Mustang Killin Envy. But if you pay attention to his expressions the whole time, he is just having a mental breakdown and actually suffering a lot from hatred. When he kills other enemies during the show he is always cold and just doing his job. But for Envy it was way deeper than that, it was hurting him to feel so much "pleasure from damaging" someone. I totally get it and think it was the best for him, when you think of a perspective from the people who loves him trying to protect him from bad consequences, after all, he has suffered a lot already from Ishval and he does need to keep the mental and emotional integrity to get to the top and change the country too.
It isn’t about taking the moral high ground. I don’t think they even would’ve stopped him if mustang’s ambitions pointed him away from leadership, and no one made the argument that killing the Envy would means them “just as bad” because nearly everyone in that room has directly taken life. It’s not about that, it’s about mustang planning to ascend to a position where he could have anyone killed for anything. It’s about making sure that he has enough self control to not become a dictator.
I love how all the hommuculus show a side of their sin in their defeat. Envy is just a sad small thing who wants what outhers have, but refuses to take action. The first Greed fails because he let his want go over his sense. Lust died because of her pride ironically.
I've never really understood the argument that them stopping him from killing Envy is stupid. Contrasting when he killed Lust, which he did to protect others, in this case it is his rage that's dictating why he's doing something. Additionally, he's being way more sadistic with Envy by deliberately causing pain and incinerating specific body parts instead of, y'know, just outright killing him like with Lust. Oh, and another part is that his hatred would continue to rule him as he became the country's ruler. The country would continue to be ruled by Wrath (see what I did there?). And like Hawkeye said, it's not like they weren't going to kill Envy anyway. They just wanted Mustang to get out of the spiral that Envy started
Comment your favorite joke from this video below! Also! Seeing a lot of people commenting (very respectfully, which I appreciate 😊) saying that I missed the point of this episode’s conflict. I understand that Hawkeye didn’t want Mustang to kill Envy because it’d send him down a dark path -I just never really like that sort of conflict in shows. It feels overdone, like we see that conflict everywhere and it never really interests me (like how Batman’s always like “I wanna kill da jokah but dat’ll make me dah bad guy!”). Plus, I just don’t agree with Hawkeye. Mustang’s smart enough and in control of his emotions enough to handle killing envy - he proved that with his post Ishval redemption arc. It could be argued that this moment is an example of him SLIPPING back into pre-redemption Mustang, which I’m sure is the point, but I just wish it was done in a less contrived and generic way. “You shouldn’t kill Envy, let me do it!” Is just a little boring to me. I think a stronger example was when Mustang torched the zombies and went “it had to be done, they’re the enemy” THAT went super hard.
Like I said though, I appreciate you all being respectful in discussing this with me :)
The whole "pump the break bit" at 14:11 and "my brother in Christ you can NOT do this to me" at 15:27
Not a clip. But i wanted to say thanks for this video. In a rough place after my car got hit and run while i was in the store yesterday, I really needed a shot of dopamine, and this gave it to me
19:22
11:25 and 11:40 I was wheezing 😂
Loved the radio bit. Do that more often.
Fun fact:in the manga the chapter ended with Hawkeye saying” when we’re alone he calls me Risa” and then it ended. All the fans and shippers went crazy that week only for the next chapter to start with “I lied” lol
Oh my god, what?!
@@CHEESEPUFF_7 yep!! It drove the manga readers insane especially since we had to wait a whole week for the next chapter to upload. Lol she broke a lot of hopes and dreams with two words.
@@allenend67Holy Shit, the rapid speculation in the forums could power the country for that month. Everyone had 57 theories and ALL were WRONG!
Memories
Huh, that's really strange since the chapter in the official translation does not end there at all.
@@SaveMeMoon I'd guess it was a change between when the manga was coming out serially and when it got put into book form. I think FMA was originally published in a magazine weekly.
The difference between killing Lust and killing Envy is that when he killed Lust he was doing so to protect others, while in this case he's doing it out of hatred. Envy has already been rendered harmless, so there's no point in killing Envy except to satisfy his anger, while in the case of Lust killing her was the only way to stop her.
This is also why it's okay for Riza to kill Envy: her motivation isn't hatred.
Okay, but the reason that it's so important Mustang isn't driven by anger and hatred is so he doesn't become like Wrath. The atrocities committed by Wrath as the Fuhrer is what drove Mustang to want to take down the government in the first place, so he could rebuild a better one. But if he acts out of hate and anger he will only become the thing he wanted to destroy. The point of Mustang choosing not to kill Envy is to show he will not be like Wrath.
The only issue I have is that there IS GOOD REASON TO KILL ENVY. Even outside of revenge, everyone there has seen him come back to his full form from that worm state. I get that they were trying to stop Mustang from falling into hatred, but it felt so annoying when I watched it
Based.
It's not just the protecting vs revenge thing, it's also the torture he puts Envy through. With Lust, he was fighting to win and survive. It wasn't about hurting her. With Envy, he was playing with his food and prolonging the pain. If he had finished Envy off quickly, it wouldn't have been an issue, but the longer he dragged the fight on, the deeper into hatred and Wrath he would fall into
@@BoogieWoogiBut Hawkeye does say she'll kill Envy. It's just that Mustang shouldn't.
Supposedly, the way that Mustang's flame alchemy works is that he transmutes compounds in the air into compressed channels of flammable gasses, then when he rubs the tips of his gloves together, it creates a spark that ignites them. The snap is really just for style to make the spark.
Iirc his gloves fingertips have flint sewn into them? I think Arakawa mentioned that in a character feature. I could also be misremembering
And one glove does big AOE transmutations while the other does pinpoint accuracy ones
Mustang's flame alchemy is basically changing the compounds in the air, basically transmuting the air composition itself. While most alchemist transmute solid matter, Mustang transmutes gases which is why his alchemy is basically rare, hard, and powerful. His gloves just give of sparks to start a reaction causing the transmuted gases to ignite and burn.
Mustang manipulates the oxygen density with his circle, while his glove ignites a small spark that travels based on the oxygen density.
The sheer number of calculations that the formula he uses must take into account and his impressive control of it is... staggering.
Alchemy is practically no difference from magic, but the hard science necessary to make the base formula of each circle is CRAZY to think of.
Even with the explanation that he makes pathways for the flames, the fact that he can contain them into them shows the absurd control he has.
Because if he lets out even for a second, by making the wrong pathways or letting the flames alive for too long... only tragedy waits.
I'd argue Mustang not killing Envy is less about not killing them and more about not slaughtering an enemy when they're beaten down and defenseless. Remember Ishval? That was when he decided he'd become Führer, specifically so that there'd be no more of that slaughter. Now that he is closest to achieving his goal, it is important for him to actually stick to his ideal, even when it's inconvenient.
This is such a perfect comment. People always critic this one thing, but they also forget that it's quite literally us seeing Mustang become Wrath.
Normally, I tend to side with Danny on the whole "taking the moral high ground is stupid and uninteresting" notion, but in this case it wasn't just about moral superiority, it was also a political move, which does make the decision way more interesting. A morally superior move driven by morally grey desires.
We've also already seen Mustang kill a homunculus in this exact way, if he did it again there would be no time to explore the consequences as the story is nearing the end and there's already so much to cover. Mustang not killing Envy in the way he did with Lust shows his arc in this last half of the story.
@@HF-rr6kt
Why though? We've already had a chance to see him "become wrath" with Maria Ross, and he didn't.
Envy is the one character in the show who deserves this treatment more than anyone else.
A heroic fight where one of the most unrepentant evil characters in the whole show gets put to justice. That's how this entire thing should have been framed
What makes the situation here any different from when Olivier killed Raven? Or when Roy killed Lust? Because Roy was just angrier when it happened?
It's a weak, sanctimonious attempt to close out Roys arc, and explain the basis of Envy's defining trait. That's all this entire section seems out to accomplish
Based.
@@tonberry2670 The fundamental difference is that Luat was an active threat, Olivier is painted as a violent person.
Mustang, particularly Fuhrer Mustang, needs to be an institution above personal revenge to avoid becoming a Tyrant.
It is not a case of whether Envy deserves it, Hawkeye literally said she would kill him. It is a case of whether Roy should be allowed to be the one to do it.
Roy Mustang not killing Envy ties into the show's concept of "The chain of Hatred". The reason everyone stopped him from killing Envy is because revenge won't help him, but consume him instead and Scar is the perfect example of that. It is almost a cliche, but an important one.
Throughout the story, we want to see Roy kill Envy, but when the time comes, he isn't allowed that "satisfaction". Just because he's justified in doing something, doesn't mean it's the best for him and his friends know that. Letting Roy kill Envy could arguably turn him into Scar or even Wrath when he reaches the top. It would harm everything him and Hughes stood up for
We could also apply similar paragon logic to Mustang that we could a Superman/Batman. The point isn't even necessarily "Ooo killing will make you evil", it's really about setting an example and being the best version of a person. Batman's entire story is basically a morality play, trying to prove that Gotham can be better. Inflicting his own justice through vigilante murder, regardless of how right it is, would fail that goal; basically he would just be Light Yagami at that point, culling criminality through fear and death. Superman on the other hand is basically a god, so the whole idea behind his morality is that he MUST be the best role model possible, because if he can't be better then what hope do the puny mortals have.
@@Vael221neither one of those philosophies actually go anywhere in real life, killing someone who is a mass murderer like the joker is not a bad move. If I killed hitler, you think anybody would call me bad, or wrong. You think ppl would really consider me to be “consumed by hatred” if I killed Christopher Columbus, or Jeffrey dahmer, or like anybody else known for atrocities like the joker. No, they wouldn’t, in fact most ppl would probably thank me for it. And for Superman, that makes even less sense cuz he’s not a god at all, he’s an alien, with different dna that allows him to absorb solar radiation and turn it into power, he is so fundamentally different from humans, why the fuck would anything he does have any reflection on the abilities of humanity. That’s like saying, if a bird can’t push its wings up and fly, what help do any of us puny mortals have😂. Or like saying if an elephant, the strongest animal on the planet, can no longer use its strength, what help do us puny humans have😂it just doesn’t make sense, very little correlation. I’m NOT saying your wrong about the theme of the comics, just saying those themes hold little to no value in life, it’s just tv being tv
@Vael221 well said. I always get annoyed with whole "Batman is stupid for not killing criminals". He turns them over to the police, so it's Gothem's job to deal with them not Batman. Yet no one talks about how stupid Gotham is for not giving the Joker the Death Penalty, but will criticize Batman.
We’re definitely in the hype now!Mustang not killing Envy is less about “uwu revenge bad” and more about “my dude you are this close to going off the deep end, at this point you’re just enjoying torturing an enemy while they’re down. Go take a walk, we’ll end this clean”. A Mustang who wants to be the fuhrer, supposedly to protect the people (his pyramid scheme speech to Hughes) can’t afford to enjoy torture porn this much this close to his goal. Even in Ishval, he didn’t *enjoy* it when he tortured people. He can’t be a monster who enjoys torturing someone like that AND be the kind of fuhrer he dreamed about being. That’s why Hawkeye aimed her hun at him: he asked her to shoot him if he strays from the way, all those years ago. She will keep this promise.
Also Hawkeye’s entire “I won’t go on without you, if you die I kill myself after this fight” thing isn’t new. I don’t know if you remember all the way back during the Lust fight, Hawkeye lost the will to live entirely when she thought he died. She’s been borderline suicidal for years.
People also forget that Hawkeye also was threatening him because he was LITERALLY about to kill himself with Envy under his foot. If he snapped Envy, not a CHANCE Mustang wouldn’t be taking the same hit. And then he threatens the same fate to Ed no hesitation. If you don’t let me kill Envy, you die too. (Yes he said burn your arm, but considering the fire power, I doubt Mustang wouldn’t have overdone it and got Ed in full.
@@Kaempfdog Agreed he threatened to hurt both Ed and Hawkeye when they got in his way. And when saw Hawkeye injured he didn't even bother to check on her but rather used her injury as further reason to incinerate envy
he totally can?? envy killed hughes, why the hell would mustang not enjoy torturing a terrible person💀 because envy’s literally the one initiating mustangs anger continuously even while he’s getting beaten up
like bro riza’s a terrible person for not letting mustang kill envy
Travis absolutely owned the emotional ride that mustang was going through.he is a fantastic VA and he really gives it everything in these episodes❤
mustangs killing lust was absolutely badass.
mustang pursuing and killing envy was so brutal and shows really well how easy it is to snap and lose control in extreme situations,it is so so well done
my feelings for lust was "wow mustang is a bad ass" my feelings for envy are "wow mustang is fucking horrifying" The scene of Hawkeye almost crying at the sheer violence of the execution she's watching is so chilling to me every time
This wasn’t even a fight it was a one sided massacre/ barbecue
Literally coughing baby vs nuclear bomb
hell yes
Like Danny said, it was a roast
That "I am an alchemist" always hits SO HARD. I love her with my entire heart.
Danny needs to check out the bloopers after he's done with the series.
they are brilliant 😂I'd love to hear what he thinks of them
And the 4koma theather skits too, they're so funny but so underrated 😩
he's gonna love the parts with Alphonse!
There have been a couple comments about the Mustang not killing Envy point, but another thing to remember is that Mustang specifically asked Hawkeye to help keep him on the right path and to (literally) shoot him if he strays. That if he's ever motivated by hatred like this then he's not fit to be in a position of power and can no longer make the country better or atone for his sins (war crimes). Her pointing the gun at him was her fulfilling her promise.
The whole conversation isn't about having a moral high ground by not being a killer (the room is literally filled with killers), it's about stopping him from cementing himself as being fueled by hatred. FMAB has such a wide range of moral perspectives that the fact that everyone in the room is in agreement that Mustang needs to chill tf out is a testament to what's happening to him mentally.
And re: Hawkeye not wanting to continue living after this if she has to go through with shooting Mustang-she doesn't want to have to continue living with all the atrocities she's committed, but especially so if she has to kill the one person she's dedicated herself to. In her mind, if she loses Mustang, she loses her purpose and would only be left with the worst her life has had to offer her. GAHHHH I love them so much is physically hurts.
Yes, and all of those storytelling beats were corny. It is ok for Danny to have different tastes for stories.
This is a fantastic explanation actually. I did always think it felt a bit convoluted that someone else had to do the exact same thing, but it being more about Mustang proving himself.
@@TheDreamingDaysWe're not saying he shouldn't have a different opinion. We're just explaining the situation because he didn't understand it. Shouldn't people understand the situation their judging?
@@xdustyx2982 It is patronizing to assume someone does not understand something just because they interpret it differently than you. Not liking something does not equal not 'getting it'.
@@TheDreamingDays No one is patronizing him.
I think the point of the end of the Envy fight wasn't "we don't kill" or anything like that. It's more "Kill because you have to. Not out of revenge. Not in anger." Lust fought until she was gone. There was no way to stop the zombies without killing them. But Envy was beaten. They weren't a danger anymore, not immediately. And Mustang would have vented all his grief through rage. It would have changed him as a person. In a way he's been trying to recover from since Ishval. And stopping him from becoming worse again was the primary task he gave Hawkeye. She's not there to protect him (though she does that as well). She's there to remind him that he's not a weapon of mass destruction, but a person. And as a person he has to face his grief and work through it. And if she can't keep him human, it's her job to make sure that he can't be anything else. Ever again. And at all other times, even in this time, Roy trusts her to make that call. I love these two so much.
Someone at least shouldve put down Envy instead of talk-no-jutsu'ing himself into doing it for them. I dont think a sadistic, void of empathy Homunculus is something you want to let live. Especially knowing how dangerous Envy is and that if left alone, he can come back from that form. If not Mustang, then fine. But SOMEONE should have
@KagekiriToriko they were planning on doing that; Ed's last jab made Envy do it first
@@KagekiriToriko killing Envy was always the plan. What they were arguing against was letting Mustang do it in the heat of *wrath*
Envy literally came back from the same state like 2 episodes before, kill him. It was a dumb and lame as forced “don’t kill or you’ll become bad” stupid ass trope. I hate it
@@joelzabik1341 That only happened because they'd handed Envy to a child. They would not make that mistake again. I'm pretty sure either Ed or Riza would have finished the job, they just could not let Roy do it in that state of mind.
Remember, from the beginning, Mustang asked EVERY homunculus he met whether they knew who Hughes was or if they killed him. Vengeance was already in his mind but he wasn't consumed by it yet. When Envy confirmed that he did it, that gave Mustang a target.
If Mustang had killed Envy right then and there, he would just become another Bradley. Another wrathful dictator to continue the cycle of war and PTSD.
I don't think Mustang would've gone as ballistic either had Envy not mocked using Gracia Hughes form to kill Maes.
Mustang knew Maes wife and daughter were his world.
Knowing Envy killed his best friend via leveraging Maes love for his family was probably why he went from "I'm going to roast you and give you as quick of death like Lust" to "I'm going to commit war crimes".
6:02 I adore this moment, all I can think of is hellsing abridged “they’d need an anti tank rifle… OH FUCK AN ANTI TANK RIFLE!”
What's funny to me is the guy with the binoculars almost sounds like TFS Nappa.
My favorite parts of this whole fight were Mustang refusing to even let Envy get in a witty villain monologue by just hitting him mid-sentence over and over, and then Hawkeye's "I lied **gunshot*" Like that was so clever and so funny
What I think should be brought up is the symmetry of Lust and Envy's fights.
When fighting Lust, Roy was cold, focused, and determined. Meanwhile, Riza was broken by the seeming reality of Roy's death, and lashed out without any of that.
Against Envy, it's now Roy who's losing himself to his emotions due to the loss of his friend still scarring his heart, to the point of losing sight of why he fought and focused on personal revenge. Meanwhile, Riza was the one who was cold and focused, never losing sight.
And something that was missed but Riza made it clear that Envy was NOT walking away. She fully intended on killing the Homunculus herself but... well, something you probably didn't notice is that _Roy wasn't out to kill Envy, he was out to torture him to death._ That's why he didn't do the flame spam until after Riza was in danger. He wasted time and Riza got put in danger, which likely only made his rage stronger. He could have probably killed him far more effectively if he wanted to, and minimized the chance of Riza being at risk, if he focused on incinerating Envy immediately... but the tongue and the eyes being his first targets made it clear that a quick, efficient death was not on his mind.
That's why everyone stopped him in the end and called him out. And why one argument that should have been made was 'if you really just wanted to kill him, Envy would already have been dead'. Because Roy was letting his rage control his actions... or rather, his Wrath.
It also, in the end, takes away the only possible victory Envy could have had: Envy's specialty is inciting conflict, driving people apart, escalating things and making people kill each other for Father's plans. But here, right at the end, he finally loses the ability to do that. It's why he desperately tries to get everyone to fight each other at the end, in part (as well as the fact that he doesn't understand how someone can just... let go of their hatred). He's not even that hateable anymore, seen as nothing but a pathetic green slug that desires to be a part of a world he will never belong to. And that is what crushes his soul... and, well, drives him to crush his stone.
I'm a bit disappointed Danny missed the point of the episode. I'm not good at explaining like others here, but I wanted to say, anyway: the story wasn't saying Envy shouldn't die. It was about Mustang not losing himself to his hatred and wrath. It was about Envy being weaker and smaller than humanity because he couldn't understand our empathy and connection. That's why it wasn't a fight. The fight, the coolness, it wasn't the point. That's what makes it the most powerful episode in the series, for me. Because Mustang was cool and the fight was hype, and yet watching him burn Envy, all I could feel was dread. I feared he would lose himself to his hate, and so when Hawkeye and Ed come in to stop him, and he regains himself, it's such a relief. It's very well-written. I do see why Danny felt the way he felt, I'm just disappointed he either didn't notice or didn't care about the... subtext? The purpose, I guess, of the scene.
Danny did not miss the point. He simply dislikes the storytelling trope that was used. Just a matter of different tastes, no need for an overblown explanation of your interpretation. The "oh no don't kill the bad guy" trope is overdone and corny.
@@TheDreamingDays completely agree. This conversation was redundant and just an excuse to push the message of not finishing off the villain when they had a chance. The who thing about Roy becoming just like Bradley annoyed me because unlike the former Furher, Roy has no reason to become like him or any of the other homunculi.
I like Fullmetal Alchemist but this is something I think the 2003 series had over Brotherhood, Ed ended up breaking his own code when he killed Greed and Sloth because it was just something he had to do for the better. It felt more realistic in it's development for Ed whenever he was out in those situations and felt damn near real.
2003 FMA is underrated in many ways.@@Douio
@@TheDreamingDays completely agree the series was very underrated. Wish it gets more love
@@TheDreamingDays except you and the other guy missed the point just as much as Danny did. Riza said "I'll dealt with him myself"
Danny’s right
This wasn’t even a fight
This was Mustang unleashing MONTHS of repressed emotions on his best friend’s killer and said killer becoming the main dish at the BBQ 🍖
This was absolutely Mustang’s time to shine
Also can we appreciate Danny being an official member of the Roy x Riza fan club? 😂 he was legitimately ready to rage if one of them died in those episodes and I’m kinda digging it
I think it was less of the issue for Ed (and certainly not an issue for Hawkeye) that he wanted to kill Envy. The issue was for the motivation. When he killed Lust, it was for defending people, he was not emotional at that point, he was simply a soldier doing what was the best in the situation.
With Envy, it was personal, it was his hate burning Mustag up from the inside, it was the fire that was taking him over, and that was not the path he was meant to go. Danny probably forgot, but Mustang told Hawkeye that she had his back, and that meant that she could shoot him if he strayed from the path the wanted to go. Being a soldier for the people was that path, not the killer for his own vengeance. Using his position for his personal emotions was exactly what Mustang wanted to go against, so if he now killed Envy for his own satisfaction, he became what he wanted to fight.
So, it was not really about them feeling bad for Mustang to kill Envy, but rather that he would set precedent when his emotions became more important than his duty.
If envy has no fans then i'm dead. Goodbye to one of my favorite characters, and yes i agree with danny- his voice is super attractive. Also love the mustang moments
(S)he appears to be the most popular Homunculus :) my favourite is Lust and Envy comes second, yet I can see why (s)he's a fan-favourite. And yes, the dubbed voice couldn't have been chosen better.
Envy has always had a soft spot in my heart. Everyone talks about "well he did all these awful things!" Like yeah, so did most of our main cast at some point. The point is they chose to be better and that's why you root for them now. And Envy literally takes their own life because they WANTED to be better, but thought by nature that would mean forsaking what he had for an impossible task. In another timeline maybe Ed could've caught on sooner when Envy wasn't so low mentally and they could've built a redemption story about how if you want all that love and support in your life, that mental strength, you have to earn it and start somewhere. It isn't a natural "gift" only given to certain people.
OHH I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS
Edit: it wasn't about envy's death, it was about the torture that mustang enjoyed putting them through. also, funnily enough you were in the same exact headspace as envy, bc they also wanted mustang to do it, to drown in his own fury and drop to their level.
i understand wanting to see the character go down this road, but i personally think it was the perfect resolution.
anyway, great video and reaction
Just for context, the argument wasn't about not killing Envy on principle, but more Mustang doing it for the wrong reasons. Killing Envey would be an act of pure rage and hatred, rather than removing the threat that Envy poses to the world, he would ultimately become what Scare was at the start of the series if he had gone through with it. None of them disagree with the notion that Envy was too dangerous and had to go, but it was more about saving Mustang's soul than it was about saving Envy.
RIsa saying "I lied" makes me cackle every time its just so funny to me every re-watch/read
These episodes have one of my favorite monologes of all time (Envy's death monologe) . The only one in this show that tops it is near the end.
👏👏👏👏👏
I think this is one of the few (if only) times that the whole "you can't kill the bad guy" trope is actually done well
Time for Danny to put some respect on Mustang
about time eh🎉
"I Lied" - most badass hype line ever said in all of media
Hawkeye double duping Envy pretending to be Mustang will forever be one of my all time favorite anime moments. It's just so fuckin good
Him thinking the scariest thing is a tank going towards u is gonna bite him soon😂😂😭😭
I mean i do get the thing about mustang but also imo it was rly important for him to stick to his morals after Ishval instead of being consumed by revenge. We are not gonna explore the world when he is in charge so there is no point making him suffer the consequences of killing envy. this would just destroy his development. While he was killing Lust to survive, he was just needlessly toying and torturing Envy for his own satisfaction so there is a difference in the end.
The differnece between killing Lust and killing Envy is that at the end, Envy was helpless. Lust was in full fight when Mustang killed her, it was a combatdeath.
With Envys tiny form, it would be an execution and that _is_ different. There are clear indicators that if Mustang crosses that threshhold, there will be no coming back
No excuse for what he did to Lust (probably the most beautiful woman in the history of anime). Wanted to pick up both her and Envy, then take them to my empire of roses and red water.
Envy is clearly a more powerful combatant than Lust was, so I don't see how that tracks.
@@TheDreamingDays No, I mean at the moment Roy would have actually killed him he was just this little slugworm and helpless.
Sure, but he can still escape as the little worm. He escaped capture before. Eliminating that possibility fast should be a priority over stopping Mustang to have an ethics argument. It is a bad storytelling beat. @@saiyasha848
I've been waiting to see his reaction to seeing Mustang ROAST Envy
20:40 "Mustang, kill everyone in this room right now" is kind of the exact reason he can't kill Envy.
They are not saying that Envy shouldn't be killed but that Roy is in the wrong headspace to make that choice at all. Someone willing to kill everyone in that room cannot be trusted to make decisions over life and death.
It wasn’t really a “killing is wrong” situation, they were trying to keep Mustang from becoming the type of person who’d kill someone out of anger. There’s a difference between killing out of necessity and doing it based on emotion. No one had a problem with him killing Lust because in that case, he was protecting Hawkeye and Al. Here, he was going out of his way to make Envy suffer because he wanted to, which while not completely undeserved, could lead him down a much darker path if he kept going with this mentality
Still a corny trope regardless of the minutiae of the reasoning why.
I definitely *do* have a problem with him robbing us of Lust (probably the most gorgeous woman in the history of anime).
19:22 This is an S tier joke that didn’t get enough credit
Yeah 100% that got me laughing way more than it should have, just the way he opens his mouth and the sound just plays xD
Personally i get not caring for the moral philosophizing in this episode. I agree with the shows general "revenge=bad" thing and while i do like this moment i get how it can come across to someone who isnt as on board with the idea.
That said, one fully pragmatic condemnation of mustangs actions i never see anyone bring up? He's wasting time. We saw him take lust from what seemed to be full power to nothing in what seemed like about a minute tops. Theres no reason to think he couldn't do the same now, but instead he's letting his emotions get the better of him and using valuable time they may not have to spare to get off on torturing this asshole.
The joy across Danny's face as he is watching Mustang Flambe Envy is everything I wanted and more. Just absolutely fantastic and happy to see you witnessing the meme in its full glory.
Can't wait for you to finish the series!
I'm really sad about the "tongue bubbling grease" line, it's one of the few cases where I really prefer the writing in the sub: "I'd say that tongue of yours has gotten nice and greasy. It burns so well, doesn't it, Envy?:
👀
There's a difference between killing an enemy because you need to, and doing it while you're indulging in violent hatred. Scar and Hawkeye would have been totally okay with killing Envy because, yeah "we won't kill the bad guy" is often bullshit, but it's *why* you're doing it that matters.
Is there a difference though? Dead is dead. Pausing active combat to moralize is a bad tactic and clunky storytelling.
@@TheDreamingDays
The difference is what happens after- it's shown by him threatening Ed and Hawkeye, two of the people he cares most about, that he's been consumed by his hatred, blinded by his wrath in exactly the same way that Bradley is, that Scar was when he killed the Rockbells, and how Winry was when she was on the verge of killing Scar.
Therefore, Hawkeye killing Envy is fine- he's a slippery enemy, a monster who needs to go down- but Mustang killing him would represent him going over the edge, completely and utterly unable to see anything but anger and hatred, starting the cycle again. To boil it down to "killing bad" despite the fact that they literally say that they're gonna kill Envy anyway is just a flat misinterpretation of the work
Since so many others have brought up the point behind the whole "Mustang shouldn't be the one to kill Envy thing" (which I agree with) I'll focus instead on Envy's side of the episode. Particularly, I liked how the writer used Mustang's absolute flambéing of Envy as a way for sweet, sweet catharsis, which is why it was so hype despite lacking tension of a traditional fight, added with the ethical question it posed about killing out of hate as opposed to killing out of necessity.
I also liked how the sins of each Homunculus, is deconstructed, with maybe the exception of Lust. Pride, the oldest homunculus is the smallest in stature, Sloth is the laziest but the fastest and probably physically strongest, and for Envy the very shapeshifting that made him so dangerous was ultimately just Envy taking on any different shape other than his true form. A truly jealous creature that couldn't stand to be what he was and wanted so desperately to be something else, so much so that once he himself realized it, he ended his own life rather than continue on. Spectacular.
ik this comment is almost a year old but I’ve seen a couple people suggest that lust’s downfall was her own BLOODlust. she decided to be sadistic and let mustang bleed out instead of just finishing the job when she had the chance
The beauty of the Humunculi is in their demise.
Lust was destroyed while trying to come between two people close to one another and tear them apart (Hawkeye and Mustang)
Gluttony, who constantly devoured everything in sight, was devoured himself.
Envy, who took joy in dividing humanity through their differences, was defeated when he came up against people who no longer bore that resentment for one another. Try as he did at the end to stoke one last fire, his words fell on deaf ears.
The point of the Envy thing is that Mustang was acting out of pure hatred and if he let that control him he'd go down a slippery slope like other men in power before him. He wasn't killing Envy because it was the right thing to do he was killing Envy because of personal vengeance and was losing sight of himself and his own goals in the process. He once asked Riza to be his moral judgment and to take him out should he ever go past the point of return, hence her pointing the gun at him here
A lot of reactors seem to miss this because they get so caught up in the joy of Envy's suffering which is also. Sort of the point the show makes because you get so sucked into Mustang's mindset we the viewers forget how terrible this actually is especially given his own past of taking part in a genocide
3:45 the "103.1 The Whale" joke was good, but it gets better with the callback to it
5:28 you want me to shut down 103.1 "the whale"? and the "prank calling the government" bit was what made the first 103.1 the whale joke even better
You’re missing the point with the Mustang scene. It’s the very fact that Mustang thinks HE’S the one who needs to kill Envy that’s the problem. Like, he literally threatened to burn Ed’s arm off- to mutilate his subordinate- so he would get the chance. That mentality is what’s being called out.
LOL, the Envy cliffhanger isn't even the worst cliffhanger in this show!
Also, Hawkeye totally would shoot Mustang in the head. When Mustang hired Hawkeye after the Ishvalan War, he made her promise that if he ever strayed from the path of trying to set things right after the damage caused by the war that he was trusting her to shoot him. Hawkeye was the one that showed Mustang the secrets of Flame Alchemy and Mustang was asking Hawkeye to be a check on that power, so he wouldn't abuse it again.
The point wasn't that killing Envy is wrong, it was that he was dragging it out
The fact that it only gets better from here, is insane!!! Please enjoy ❤️
I think the thing we forget about Olivier is that she's an Armstrong. And has super strength.
A sword can be deadly when your youngest family member can use a literal grand piano as a bludgeoning weapon.
The reason they don't want Roy doing it is because, he is basically the most powerful human on earth. It's the superman dilemma. If he wanted to kill everyone in that room, they could they not stop him, and If they can't trust him to control his emotions then he will become an even bigger threat then the current one down the line. What makes lust different is he wasn't emotionality unstable.
if your curious about mustang, he actually doesnt do flame alchemy, thats why he needs the flint spark gloves. his alchemy manipulates the chemical makeup of the air around him, altering it into something more flamable. then snaps to ignite. TLDR. he turns the oxygen into propane and applies fire
I think the reason why they stopped Mustang from killing Envy was because he was going to be consumed with anger if he let it keep going. Which is dangerous if he becomes the ruler of his land with absolute power willing to do anything to satisfy his anger. Like how Scar let his anger consume him he went on a rampant killing spree on any alchemist including alchemists that had nothing to do with Ishval, but solely for being an alchemist. Like imagine what would happen if rage induced mustang became the leader and makes the connection of "My best friend was murdered because of alchemy" while having absolute power what he could attempt to do.
That gave me "you'll need an antitank rifle. Oh fuck that's an antitank rifle!" 😆 6:18
It's amazing how many people don't understand WHY we don't want mustang to murder envy like this. It's not about the killing, it's about being held captive by your own hatred and vengeance. Revenge killing, in fiction at least, is generally NOT a good idea because the person who does the revenge killing is trapped by their own hatred. Take a look at Kratos from God of War. How many people were killed because of his lust for revenge?
Having to kill someone versus wanting to kill someone is the lesson here. It's aggravating but a weird and necessary moral conversation
This has been my favorite series of yours Danny. I watched FMAB with my college roommates some years ago and just went up to visit them last weekend. We ended up binge watching your entire playlist for hours and our stomachs hurt so much from laughing. Getting to watch someone experience this incredible story for the first time is awesome! Thank you for making our weekend so fun!
(BTW, I saw you mentioned HOB Season 2 is coming--so stoked!)
I love how stone cold Hawkeye was too "i lied"
I’ve been so excited to see him react to the MvE fight!
I expected a joke on the housewife being the bear that stole Brig supplies.
Oh, that bit about not letting Mustang kill Envy? That had nothing to do with some stupid "killing is wrong" message. You're forgetting who's talking here: 3 mass murderes in one room. It's about Mustang having a freaking mental breakdown while he's doing it. He's spiraling. He needed to calm the f* down before he burns more than just Envy.
But stalling to finish off an active combatant (who has proven ability to escape and survive against the odds) is a bad choice, and pausing the progression of the episode to moralize over Mustangs emotional state is bad storytelling. It is a corny trope regardless of the minutiae of the reasons why it was used.
@@TheDreamingDays I can concede that the timing made it it a bit strange of a situation. But you should remember that it wasn't technically THEM stalling it; that was always Mustang. Compare him slowly burning Envy bit by bit to how quickly he disposed of Lust. Mustang was absolutely wasting time for the sake of revenge, and going through quite the breakdown in the process, Hawkeye and others were right to be concerned about his mental state. They were about to head out and meet the final boss: you gotta get your head straight ASAP Mustang.
I see where you are coming from. I would say that it is not THEM stalling or MUSTANG dragging it out. It is the Author's writing choice to stall the pacing of the story regardless of the character motivations used to do it. The pacing of a fight halting to have an ethical argument over Mustangs mental state is a bad storytelling choice. It is super preachy and badly executed. @@blueteller
@@TheDreamingDays I mean, fair enough? I thought it was well-executed, but if you don't like it then that's fine.
I am glad you enjoyed it! It seems that lots of people do and that's great.@@blueteller
My favorite thing after this episode is going back a few episodes and realizing they showed the teacher with the northern army in the dark. She was the person in the back with glowing red eyes
I like to call this episode either the symphony of flame, or the overture of flame, cause that snapping scene is raw af and lives in my head rent free
"Armstrong broke one of his arms? I thought your arms were meant to be strong!" im dead😭😭
When Mustang killed Lust it wasn't out of hatred or vengeance, it was out of defense and love for Hawkeye
SECOND EPISODE IN A ROW DANNY PULLED OUT THE "You think I care about my patreon?" CARD, YOU KNOW THIS IS HYPE
Kinda disappointed he didn’t show my favorite bit of the last episode, how Olivier rallied the central soldiers to fight alongside her, just shows how charismatic she is as a leader.
"Oh no if we kill the bad guy we'll be just as bad as they are" feels like something the bad guys came up with so they keep getting second chances
27:59 Danny talking about Mustang having thought about it himself hits alot harder if you've seen the 2003 FMA and you know what happens in the episode 15 flashback
I love how Mustang is pretty much the Homunculus killer
I really hope that Hiromu's newest manga gets animated in a few years. It's called Yomi No Tsugai, or Daemons of the Shadowrealm. It definitely has the same vibe, especially with the main characters being siblings.
And envy ultimatly destroys itself
They were still going to kill envy, they just didn't want Mustang to lose himself in the process. He wasn't just trying to kill envy, he was purposely targeting and torturing them. It was consuming him, and if he killed them while like that he'd almost certaintly go past an edge he can't ever truly come back from. Not in that time period where psycology wasn't yet understood enough for it
It is a very corny trope.
honestly mustang vs envy is in my opinion one of if not THE greatest anime beatdowns of all time.
You know Danny, I've seen that controller around, I've heard good things, I even thought of getting it, but seeing a non tech TH-camr just flat out say they love it, yeah. You convinced me. Thank you. What a specific yet very well placed ad gosh darn.
in addition to what others have said, the thing about "you'll be just as bad as them" is like, Mustang is already horrible, the show has made this idea clear, and we know he knows this, we know it's his goal to ensure more people like him aren't created by this country anymore-
*That's* why he needs to get a damn grip and realize he doesn't deserve to torture someone to death cause they hurt him personally, just to satisfy his own feelings
The vocalized gun click has to be the most underrated joke in this video
love Danny's reaction to envy changing into mustang or riza and potentially killing each other
I get how what they say when they speak with Mustang looks like the rest of the predictable be "good don't do it" moments. I tend to see this scene a little deeper than that. They want envy dead, but killing him in the state he was in, the mentality he was in. That would have been the bone that breaks the camels back. And destroyed his humanity. Keeping him from conducting himself as he wished to while fixing the broken system that failed hues. It's less about a message of "killing or revenge is wrong" and more of a "Dig two Graves" kind of perspective on revenge to me. One of the better ones I've seen. I'd honestly be okay if this was yue only anime to adress it for alot of people. Because it's more layered than we normally see that particular trope delve. ❤ I get the other view of it too though. It does fall into the over done kind of category. It's just rarely done so well I can't help but praise this version.
9:55 hes going to say shes hot i can feel it
10:09 i fucking died lmao
Can't wait for the next episode and Danny's reaction to *THAT* scene.
this reaction ...how do i say.....it reminds me of how i felt when i first watched it as a 19 yr old. yeah i was mad they wouldn't let mustang kill envy.....but over the years...i grew up? I'm 35 now. Now I get their point regarding Mustang. Envy and Lust were different mindsets for Mustang, it's not the same thing. He harbored no emotion towards lust, he was just trying to save his friends. With Ed and Al, they have the naive notion that killing is never necessary, they're choosing the harder path. But the show itself is not trying to take some moral high ground regarding envy. It's not that killing the bad guy is a problem. It's Mustang's hatred. it's like danny isn't paying attention. There's a reason Scar is there. Murdering the bad guy is not the issue here. as Danny himself said, they're super okay with that.
What they aren't okay with, is losing Mustang to his emotions and hatred. that's not a good leader. It would be like making the Scar from the beginning of the series into the fuhrer. It would be wrath all over again in the form of a man if mustang doesn't reign it in. Someone with as much destructive power and raw ambition needs to be kept on the straight and narrow or else he can literally destroy everything. EVEN MUSTANG UNDERSTANDS THIS which is why he humbled himself and put Riza in a position to keep him to shoot him in the back if he ever let himself become corrupted.
man this reaction just enforces how I've felt about his reaction to this series sometimes....it's like watching a immature child react. A child that doesn't take time to understand the philosophy or moralistic dilemma's or the heart of the show, but just wants action. sometimes, not all the time, it's like a little kid watching and being mad at the talking scenes because there aren't any fight scenes. >
This is an extremely condescending comment. Danny simply has different tastes for this particular storytelling trope (be real it IS a corny trope). There is no need to talk down to him over it.
Petition for Danny to watch Fullmetal vs. Flame from the 2003 series. I need him to see that, it’s honestly the best thing I’ve seen in all of my life
I believe mustangs power is like turning very specific amounts of air flammable when causing an explosion of fire with his spark gloves
Really fucking good commentary this episode, just banger after banger
Thank you!!
Envy probably legit thought Mustang was taking his side at first 😂
Not me literally thinking "man, Danny hasn't uploaded an FMA vid in a bit" about an hour before this went live
Mustang inspired me to learn how to snap my fingers no lie I thought he was the most badass character in all of fiction when I was younger
Hawkeye's "I lied" is PEAK I love that moment so much
Comparing envy & lust's obliteration-via-mustang is always interesting to me b/c I'm like. The one person that considers Lust's death unsettling LMAO
Mustang *did* need to be as brutal as he was, she would've killed them all if he hadn't, but the way the show sort of.. stretches it out? Has always felt unsettling to me. The camera lingers on Lust's burning body and screams for just a second or two too long for the hype to carry me through completely. (And I don't just mean the pause before her final lunge.) Note this isn't a bad thing - the unease enhances the scene for me, personally - but it IS a thing. It's brutal, but because it HAS to be.
Mustang torturing Envy to death could've been the same - long, yes, but because of the nature of Homunculi, not because of twisted catharsis - but it wasn't. He wasn't eliminating an enemy so they could move forward and save the day, he was torturing someone to death for the pleasure of it. That's not the kind of person Ed or Hawkeye want Mustang to be. That's not who *Mustang* wants to be, outside the heat of the moment. Nobody's arguing that Envy didn't deserve it - just that Mustang shouldn't let himself fall like that. Not for anything. Especially not something as pathetic as Envy.
I'm easily annoyed by "if we kill them we're just as bad as they are" logic too, tbh, but there are certain stories where it comes across as less of a moral high ground thing and more of a personal thing. Almost selfish, in a way. "I don't want this for me and you can't make me into something I don't want to be." It's not about what the bad guy has done or deserves -- it's about the would-be killer.
"This monologue involves too much breast squeezing" should be a comment every theater, film, and tv critic is forced to say every 100 reviews. They should have to find a place to fit it in. Please guys. I need us to make this happen.
A la Game of Thrones season 8:
Envy kind of forgot that Mustang incinerated Lust to death
Wildest part of the Envy revealing that they killed Hughes using the Gracia disguise is not once was it clarified that Hughes KNEW it was Envy, so Mustang probably still thinks that Hughes thought it was his own wife that killed him
Hughes literally watched Envy transform in front of his eyes, he knew it wasn't his wife.
@@thomaswillard6267 Yeah, HUGHES, knows but does Mustang know that Hughes knew, or does he think that Envy killed him while fully acting like his wife? That's what I wondered.
Well you mentioned it would be more interesting if Mustang would have killed Envy and then having consequences about it and learning the lesson the hardest way. That was exactly what Riza was trying to avoid, trying to protect him from.
When I watched it the first time I was also excited to see Mustang Killin Envy. But if you pay attention to his expressions the whole time, he is just having a mental breakdown and actually suffering a lot from hatred. When he kills other enemies during the show he is always cold and just doing his job. But for Envy it was way deeper than that, it was hurting him to feel so much "pleasure from damaging" someone. I totally get it and think it was the best for him, when you think of a perspective from the people who loves him trying to protect him from bad consequences, after all, he has suffered a lot already from Ishval and he does need to keep the mental and emotional integrity to get to the top and change the country too.
It isn’t about taking the moral high ground. I don’t think they even would’ve stopped him if mustang’s ambitions pointed him away from leadership, and no one made the argument that killing the Envy would means them “just as bad” because nearly everyone in that room has directly taken life. It’s not about that, it’s about mustang planning to ascend to a position where he could have anyone killed for anything. It’s about making sure that he has enough self control to not become a dictator.
I love how all the hommuculus show a side of their sin in their defeat. Envy is just a sad small thing who wants what outhers have, but refuses to take action. The first Greed fails because he let his want go over his sense. Lust died because of her pride ironically.
That 1920’s bit hit me so hard, was not ready in the slightest for it 😂😂😂😂
I realized while watching danny react to these how badly i wish i could watch this show again for the first time.
I've definately given his FMA videos each like 10 views a piece lol
I've never really understood the argument that them stopping him from killing Envy is stupid. Contrasting when he killed Lust, which he did to protect others, in this case it is his rage that's dictating why he's doing something. Additionally, he's being way more sadistic with Envy by deliberately causing pain and incinerating specific body parts instead of, y'know, just outright killing him like with Lust. Oh, and another part is that his hatred would continue to rule him as he became the country's ruler. The country would continue to be ruled by Wrath (see what I did there?). And like Hawkeye said, it's not like they weren't going to kill Envy anyway. They just wanted Mustang to get out of the spiral that Envy started
Danny, you not remember things is why we need more frequent FMA videos
I don't like "if I kill him I'm as bad as him" I DO however like "if I kill him I Won't Be Able Stop Myself From Becoming As Bad As Him"