Ship Chat: Centaur Class
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- Today we look at a fan favorite design from Deep space 9 and the dominion war. the Sleek and elegant Centaur class. looking at its long troubled development to its eventual career in the dominion war.
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Best looking kitbash ever.
agreed. just goes to show the range of possibilities when kitbashing you can end up with something like this, on the other end you can end up with a Curry.
Would of been great to see these ships kick-ass the Borg, at Wolf 359 as well!!
@@venomgeekmedia9886 or, Yeager🙄🙄
@@venomgeekmedia9886 In my personal opinion Centaur is 210m and before someone say anything. It saucer is noticeably different, so it is not direct Excelsior kitbash. Furthermore there is also STO ship know as Georgiou class what is quite similar in look from range. It is post-TMP Era version of Walker and it fit more in size category of 380m (as side note unknow yet by name shit of similar design show up in Lower Decks, so Georgiou may be potentially cannon). Star Trek lack smaller ships anyway.
Starfleet got lazy and complacent, and had to pull their big-boy pants up after the beatings at Wolf 359 and initial Dominion engagements.
Scaling to the components…
Oh that's going to be a issue for the *Yeager class.*
Half Intrepid, half Marquis Raider…
I agree with you. The Yeager class looks like what it is, a kit bash. The Centaur makes sense and fits into the Star Trek universe. A shared design philosophy and shared components for ease of manufacture.
Dont remind me of the yeager class
Venom should totally make a video on the Yeager-class. Im with Spacedock, I love that ship.
@@sagesheahan6732 I’m with you it totally looks like a warships
As a Sagittarius , I approve of this ship .
The Centaur class is 1 of my favourite Federation Starships a really cool looking vessel
It's actually my ship but they did spell it wrong ;)
@@IIISentorIII oh ok
Where’s the navigational deflector???
It deflects cosmic rays and micrometeors with _cool factor._
Target his weapons array avoid his engines. We don't want to leave Charlie stranded on the wrong side of the border
That's because Charlie needed to get back to his Angels....for the Sacrifice.
Never gave the ship that much thought to be honest. And while I'm being honest, I was just glad to see something else other than a Miranda playing in the Centaur's role, and I figured she was simply the Miranda's replacement. If she's scaled up, which I didn't notice when I saw her, I wouldn't mind it being the Excelsior's Nebula. Also, I have no good reason for this, but I do not like forward-facing shuttle bays especially next to the bridge.
Personally, I'd prefer to be more gracious with her history and say it's performance struck a happy line between failure and unremarkable. In terms of ships to have for the Dominion war, I'd put it at the bottom of the barrel, but it's still in the barrel. The Miranda, I'd leave in the nursing home.
Still enjoyed the vid. You might take care that you seem to be channeling you inner junkball media. Wish you well either way. ^_^ See you all later, you dicky engines.
Charlie never did know when to quit.
"Charlie don't Surf!"
Charlie likes to swing for the fences.
A friend of mine who was in the U.S. Navy. Told me a ship like this in WAR TIME. More then likely the person in command would NOT be a CAPTAIN but a Lt. Commander or a Full Commander.
Someone at Captain's rank he said with their experience would be put in command of a ship like the EXCELSIOR, AMBASSADOR class or the GALAXY class. Something of those types of ships. Not this type.
absolutely right and in fairness DS9 does a better job of illustrating this tradition as Sisko spends the first half a Commander. and both Worf and Dax takes command of the defiant whilst being a Commander/ Lieutenant Commander.
But, maybe the commander got killed, and Starfleet just randomly picked Charlie....even if the Lt. Cmmd. could of been the director of the ship.....what are the odds anyhow, a tough captain that never wanted to back down, and with a ship capable of moving faster in a battle....the odds are all layed-out in the crew's favor! The chances of the crew to get back home in one peace, perhaps just doubled!
I would guess Starfleet probably has more 06 Captains as a % of the overall Starfleet than the USN because they don’t have to worry about a budget. 06s make significantly more than an O4.
It is interesting that most of the ships classes that tend to be longest serving in Starfleet share the same role as a supplementary light cruiser to their more famous mainstay ship-of-the-line big sibling cruisers.
Daedalus in the 22nd, Miranda in the 23rd&24th, Centaur in the 24th, ShiKahr in the 25th+.
These are tough little ships, and they are made to last.
It makes sense resource wise it's cheaper and it can be used for multiple roles and maintain alot easier than its generations gem
It is a standard naval problem. Do you build battleships, cruisers, or destroyers? You need a lot of different hulls to address all of the missions that need to be addressed. So if you can have X battleships, 2X cruisers, or 3X destroyers, even if the firepower is 6X for battleships, 3X for cruisers, and X for destroyers, you frequently have to compromise and build cruisers and destroyers when you want battleships.
I find it interesting why non of the 21st, or 22nd, century ships were around when Constitution Enterprise was in service....but, we see these very old ships battling-out the Dominion. Even if the upgrades were made, sure in the universe the structural frame work must of been getting weaker....no matter how much weilding, and extra structural supports were added on. The refitted Constitution Enterprise wasn't able to get back into service, after the battle with Khan that was it. I know it is way easier to build the older starships, but the materials that retrofitted these ships could of been made for the newer, stronger ships. 40 years for a starship was good enough, but pushing almost 100....in a battle.....I just don't think that is cool, no wonder why so many Mirandas were destroyed....even Excelsiors took quite the blow.
@@Ithinkiwill66 tech plateaus and better refit programs.
In universe, the internal space issue could have been solved by the same manner as the Miranda's, a _large box structure_ that encompasses the rear of the saucer.
EC Henry did a 3D model analysis and determined that the Miranda actually had more internal volume (19% more total volume occupied) than a Constitution Class ship.
It's probably why the Miranda had such a long service life, longer than the Constitution, it's a compact design that fits a lot in and has the added bonus of (weapon) pods as well.
If they had followed the same design philosophy in the Centaur Class it would have been a powerful capable multirole ship from the get go.
The only reason it eventually worked (only as a specialised combat vessel) was that it was lighter than a fully realised variant would have been, which made it nimble for fighting small Bugships.
And IMHO the other saucer only derivatives, besides the Miranda, just look _wrong_ with the rear slopping down like a awkward coupè with too long a liftback.
They could all do with a rear box structure for the back half of the saucer section - particularly the Nebula which has the mission pod pylon blocking the shuttle bay on the saucer.
It would be interesting to see a mock up with rear boxes, done to match the design aesthetic of the ship.
I do think they look cool, presumably internal volume isn't such a big deal if you assume it's about an Excelsior-sized saucer....and also a lot of time for more advanced equipment that may *need* less, thus keeping some of the mass and other constraints down.
I see the Centaur class as a revisiting of an earlier light cruiser/destroyer class found in the FASA games USS Ares (see prelude to Axanar on TH-cam). The Ares class was a purpose built ship of war with heavy weapons and ablative armor. It had a saucer with and inverted strut/roll-bar for joining the nacelles low and under the saucer section and it's blended primary hull. The only design change between the two was the inclusion of the Maranda weapons pod to the lower strut/roll-bar between the engine nacelles.
Venom, do the Ares from Axanar! THAT will ruffle some feathers haha
@@richjordan6461 CBS would have a cow... >_< I like it! ^~^
Huh, I didn't even realize this ship existed. That's pretty neat!
The artists constantly messed up scaling inthe babylon 5 series all the time. Nothing new for the time (mid to late 90s).
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and very informatively explained and executed indeed 👌...
I would never think you were saying the name of this vessel incorrectly. You say it with a diffrent accent, that doesn't make it a completely different word. You're good brother.
Ha, Ha!!! you made me laugh when you said Dicky engine. Your the best!
Listening to this was almost like listening to a Tank Chats episode hosted by David Fletcher from the Tank Museum. Great stuff!
I actually really enjoy this ship. The forward-facing shuttlebay is rare in Trek. (I can only think of the Curry class, the Federation class and the TNG era Ferengi cruiser.) Also it's an Excelsior style light cruiser, both great things on their own.
I almost forgot....I think the Constellation class ships had the forward shuttle bays too, eh?
@@Ithinkiwill66 Ah, I forgot about the Constellation. I believe the Akira and Steamrunner had one too.
The Saber and Akira class both have forward facing shuttle bays. Possibly the Steamrunner though I'm not sure. In the case of the Akira, it also has rear shuttle bays, so is in theory a through carrier. Oh, and the D'deridex has forward facing shuttle bays
Do the Ambassador class next time! This was a neat and fun video!
My favorite Star Trek ship.
It looks so beautifully sleek and maneuverable without having the post-voyager design aesthetic
Love this class of ship!!!
2:05 if you look at the picture of the actual shooting model, it's not just the torpedo module from the Miranda. The BRIDGE is also from the Miranda. IMO those two components very much set the scale. There's no justification for an oversized bridge module, or oversized torpedo launch tubes - whereas I think it's not unreasonable to assume they built a small saucer using the same proportions as the Excelsior saucer. After all, that's what they've done with New Orleans class vs the Galaxy class. In fact, the pictures of the shooting model reveal windows added to the saucer to make it appear smaller scale. Even the nacelles can't be said to be Excelsior because they are customized kitbashed versions of the Excelsior nacelles.
its a compact excellisar class
I definitely agree with you on size of the ship
Yeah as the Borg went through a lot of ships and Starfleet needed ships and they have parts in depots or spare parts to get ships now
Finally someone who pronounces it’s correctly
glad you agree.
brits together strong
Why the Tore pronunciation? I never heard it that way. I think I like it better.
I love the Centaur as a SF ship. SF needs small patrol ships and scouts that don't eat resources but still won't get ripped apart like a runabout or fighter craft would. You don't want to spend top of the line materials on it either because you want those materials for the front line. So you have here a ship that uses old parts from old ships that easily produced and requires less update training allowing you to field them in numbers quickly without cutting into more vital material budgets. Fast enough to catch anything small, fast enough to get away if needed and don't sleep on the threat of such a small ship when she's packing FOUR torpedo tubes on a nimble frame.
The ship that desperation made great.
The torpedo bar is not the only Miranda part on the ship . it also has a Miranda bridge. The model also has larger windows then would be normal on a standard size excelcior saucer. The smaller scale is the correct one. There are numerous examples of ships from both beta and alpha cannon with saucers that resemble a larger cannon ship.
so the bridge is one of those parts which is inconsistent and yes there are examples of it having a Miranda bridge and the windows being scaled smaller. but personally the Nacelles are the primary measure for me.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 except in this case are not straight up Excelsior nacelles bolted on the ship. The nacelles are composed of modified bottom pieces of the Excelsior nacelles from the kit that the parts are taken. You actually required to Excelsior model kits to construct one of these ships. And as far as the windows scaling is concerned we're not talking about different reconstructions of the model we're talking about the actual model as it was built. Centaur was built with the intention that it be roughly the same size as a Miranda Class Starship. Much in the same way that the Ryan Church 2009 Enterprise was built with the intention that it be roughly the same size as the TMP Probert Enterprise, not the 800-meter long monstrosity the JJ Abrams wanted in the end. In a lot of ways this makes sense if you consider that in the time between the end of the 23rd century and 2350 the volume of space that Starfleet had to patrol and control more than quadrupled and so other Starships would be needed that were easy to build and were evolutionary, not revolutionary. The centaur design is a natural evolution of the standard Miranda design providing similar size, Firepower, and the enhanced Warp Geometry of the next generation of ships. As a destroyer Design centaur fits very neatly between Miranda and saber.
Having the shuttle bay infront of AND under the bridge screams insert torpedo here.
I like that you find some really nice fanart and make sure to credit those pieces.
yeah nowadays i tend to augment it with my own stuff. but it never matches the likes of Euderion and Jetfreak.
That's Charlie Reynolds Ship!
I feel like that torpedo pod might have been a vulnerability. One good shot and not only do you have secondary detonations, you have secondary detonations in a location that could blow up all your engines in one go! Impulse engines shredded, and the nacelles no doubt flying off into space with one good shot.
I wonder if there was some tiny ship built with Excelsior-styled parts that the smaller variation used, similar to the TNG Highlighter-pod fleet's scale in comparison to the Galaxy/Nebula.
The bridge of this thing is the constitution and Miranda. In my opinion, the bridge should set the scale for the ship
With the development of Defiant & her class Power plants were no longer an issue since the ships were getting upgrades any way. It would have been easy peasy to refit one of these with a defiants warp core
2:00 For any ship portrayals on screen, especially before CGI I'm always willing to give the producers a little room to make little mistakes and cinematography choices (if they are good). So, the interpretation of the Centaur, for me, is that it has an actual Miranda torpedoe module and the scaling mistake on it is the interpretation part. IE, in my mind the module is the Excelsior scale.
Lore Reloaded referred to this ship as a bit of a Frankenstein, appropriate.
Better than Yeager class....or, should I say "Yuck" class?
@@Ithinkiwill66 you are right sr cadet jejej
Lore reloaded is racist
Lore reloaded is dumb
I never understood why we did not get the norway and saber classes in ds9 war arc.
The had the models.
We saw the saber a few times
@@MrGunlover12 really? What episodes? My memory might be shoddy
Saber was used, check out Sacrifice of Angels, you see a few there. I read somewhere the Norway model was lost/destroyed or something like that which is why it wasn't used in DS9. Maybe someone can confirm....
@@pt29999 I heard the same. The model got lost. The reason why it was never seen in a battle again. Only in Fan Fics.
This is one of my favorite non-hero ships and yes, there are significant scaling issues. I always summed it up with Starfleet's ability to scale ship construction based on need (though we don't see this very often, looking at you Yeager). We saw this with the KDF extensively though especially with the B'rel and K'vort Bird(s?) of Prey.
It could also be assumed that any Excelsiors badly damaged but salvageable after fighting the Borg or Dominion were easier to rebuild as Centaurs rather than bringing them back to original spec.
Looks like one depends more on shields than the other. (Centaur Vs Miranda) Just an observation.
In Canada, we also say "SEN-tor"
Constitution -> Miranda
Excelsior -> Centaur
Ambassador -> ?????
Galaxy -> Nebula
'Nuff sed.
Im actually kitbashing an Ambassador equivalent to the Miranda/Centaur/Nebula
@@nathanielmeade5731 and I like the idea of that being the Wambundu-class, myself.
Probably based on this design: www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/heavyfrigate_pellucidar.jpg
it's like the new orleans class, much smaller saucer than a galaxy class but same visual look so it's probably just scaled down.
in my head canon, the Centaur class was a contemporary of the Excelsior. Despite the official claims that it was a post Wolf 359 design.
I think she was intended to be. But because of how painful excelsiors development was. They didn't start work on the centaur till the 2290s by which time the need disappeared
The centaur should be a quad nacelle design because Centaurs are horse people! THEY HAVE FOUR LEGS!
The Centaur (...not Centor) is one of my favorite supplemental ship classes from 90s Trek. I wish we saw more of it.
One of the better Excelsior class derivatives.
My head cannon had always been that the fleet would resemble classic naval fleets. Something a bit different but still rhyming so to speak.
Battleships, Heavy Cruisers, Light Cruisers, Destroyers and Frigates. Equating to Sovereign (BB), Excelsior/Ambassador/Galaxy (CA), Akira/Centaur/Miranda (CL), Defiant (DD) and Sabre (FF) respectively.
Oddly enough I have a video precisely on that matter next week.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 awesome, looking forward to it. Thanks for the heads up.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 sorry for the double comment, but I just had a thought. I don't know if Drachinafel or Sacred Cow Shipyards would have any interest but that would make for an awesome collaboration with their historic/modern naval knowledge.
@@speedcreep2605 i can tell you. one of them does ;)
@@speedcreep2605 you should watch one of his older videos th-cam.com/video/q1qFLvIbMk4/w-d-xo.html
Very interesting! A controversy I didn't even know about. As it is, I didn't see the ship closely enough to even realize that it was an Excelsior kit-bash. I just figured it was a new, small ship taking the Miranda's place. Now, I find out that it's not very new and not very small. I'm not real sure where I am on the controversy. Lord knows the Effects guys from DS9 drive me crazy. It's not an unusual problem in Sci Fi shows as others have noted, but in the combat heavy, many ships together setting of DS9, it was really, really annoying to see scaling inconsistencies.
Normally I'm inclined to go with the intended size and forget the shown scale. But the Centaur was playing role of a fast interceptor, making it a good destroyer or frigate. It just looks fast with its struts so I think I'm inclined to go smaller with this one. The modules added to the hull sort of make me think that was intended. Plus, a kit-bash hull need not be the same dimensions of the ship it's emulating. Much like the New Orleans primary hull is a scaled down version of the Galaxy, the Centaur might be a scaled down version of the Excelsior hull.
I love these mashed up ships starfleet needing ships kit bashing parts they had spare just to make up numbers
reminds me of the ww2 Jagdpanzers
If we remove the laboratories and put accommodations for troops in their place, could this ship be better for combat and heavy escort?
I was never a fan of the Miranda class of ships but the centaur class looks ok.
To help explain the Dominian War would look at ww2 the Sherman tank was not better then the German Tanks but where overwhelmingly. Starfleet may have been trying to be overwhelm the enemy and try and build better ships.
ship like the centuar and miranda are kinda like the STUGs or Tank destroyers for me. a simplified cheaper model that was arguably just as effective as the parent design in most scenarios.
I'm gonna put the cat amongst the pigeons here and say I say "Centaur" the American way despite being British also 😄.
Pretty much looks like the Ares class upgraded
Great video
That torpedo pod looks a lot more more like the one from the Enterprise A in the motion picture era. This would probably make it not much bigger than the Defiant.
yes if you were to use that for scale. but given that the majority of parts are from the excelsior. scaling it according to that makes more sense to me.
Is the mediterranio class a complement to the ambassador?
0:07 Tomato - ToeMawToe, don't care. Its good work and a good video here.
You say the derelict Miranda's and Starfleet finally realized they were outdated. BUT. THEY KEEP. USING THEM.
it use excelsor tech time parts but smaller
Could it not just look smaller due to some refraction effect of its shields in a gaseous nebula, even if the gas isn't dense enough to have pretty Mutara like coloration?
I never really liked the Centaur much. I would have preferred that it be a Saber.
I prefer the smaller scale. Even the smaller scale is actually pretty big in absolute terms, even if it's small by star trek standards.
I don't think that the Miranda is intended to compliment the Constitution, as its bigger in terms of volume.
I do not get all the hullabaloo about the scaling . If engineers find a design that works if they can scale it up and/or scale it down and it still works they will. Why reinvent the wheel ?
I never seen Any of deep space 9 all tv shows
definitely worth watching
Why doesnt it have a deflctor
forget the ship parts .. a torpedo launcher is the same size .. base off of that
Either way you want to say centaur works for me an I live in America
The whole fact was the bulk of the kit bashed ships for the Dominion war were just off the shelf kits that were kit bashed together to give them a fleet without having to pay a fortune to have scratch built ships constructed.
on a personal note I never liked any of these kit bashed ships as they looked like exactly what they were off the shelf kits that were not scale to one another tossed together to make up a rag tag fleet in time for filming. Fact being despite the discussion's of scale with this model. it was a thrown together ugly kit that was just supposed to be a back ground prop. so why argue about it. it was an ugly kit bash that just filled in a scene that producer's didn't really think fans would pay as much attention to how it and many other model's were tossed together probably in one day just for filming a fleet.... Enough said
everytime and i mean every time, when i use the centaur class picture( Exactly this 00:34 ) for card games or Roleplay, i just flip it upside down and call it the "Harpy Class"
is that a Yu-Gi-Oh reference? been a while since i've played any card or tabletop. :(
@@venomgeekmedia9886 nah not a reference. sometimes i make custorm cards, like and image of a centaur class flipped upside down. it still looks good when flipped.
Nice but damn, where was the deflector dish?
either in the torpedo pod or the dorsal superstructure.
Good presentation.
I have a couple of questions. In this video you state that the Excelsior had a 'dicky engine'. Is this a reference to the Excelsior's experimental 'Transwarp drive' not making another appearance in Star Trek lore? I personally prefer the theory that the Excelsior's experimental 'Transwarp drive' was a success and this led to the development and use the the TNG warp scale as opposed to the TOS warp scale (thus making federation ships in TNG transwarp equipped). Even though Voyager's interpretations of transwarp conflicts with this, it still fits well in the timeline. What is your opinion?
yeah so the centaur goes into service almost 10 years later because of the problems of transwarp drive. when thats abandoned and the excelsior is fitted with a conventional engine. they then have to try and incorporate it into the centaur, but it wasn't designed to take that engine, so they have to modify it to fit. and that in turn compromises the engines reliability.
when it comes to redrawing the warp scale, i would say it was necessitated by excelsior achieving high speeds with the conventional engine. and they probably made the switch officially at the start of the 24th century.
These ship chats are great work love them thanks! Ragging on “Yanks” pronunciation of centaur, how about you Bri-ish stop putting an extra i in aluminum 😄, and Miranda is “uh” at the end not “er!” We yanks allow A becoming an R sound with our Bostonians like JFK saying “Cuber” instead of Cuba, but nonetheless its still wrong.
Your “jag-you-are” pronunciation of jaguar is better then ours i have to admit. Jag Gr.3 fantastic fighter bomber btw!
It's the stupid Pace next the hippies of Starfleet command why wouldn't I heard about that thing in Picard where Picard was in charge of the federation there was a great big war like empire that destroyed all the aliens I mean oh that's great if I was picardo be like hell yeah we're going to leave this the way it is we're not going to mess with this thanks q old buddy I appreciate it
I ain’t no Yank.. 😳😂
I say centaur you say centaur let's just call the whole thing off
you lost me at 00:19...
well i'm sorry for using the correct pronunciation
TL;DR: Starfleet engineers are incompetent.
On the omic side, it's spelled centor either.
kitbashing
Hmm, seeing (hearing? reading...?) as it is technically Americans who have the accent, I'll just have to make do with you repeatedly saying "Centor". It's your language, speak it without apology. Cheers.
That does it really bugs me that you say it the English way LMAO