Is AoS learning from MTG? (w/Pleasant Kenobi) - Warhammer Weekly 06192024
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things Warhammering! This week, we are bringing on Pleasant Kenobi and discussing whether AoS 4.0 is learning its new tricks from Magic the Gathering.
#warhammer #ageofsigmar #newaos #magicthegathering
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What a completely unexpected crossover in my interests and people named Vince
I absolutely agree that GW needs to create some sort of multiplayer format to bring in new players but it doesn’t seem right to use commander as a shining example of what to learn from when Commander was created by players and became popular from there. It’s still not even maintained by wizards but by the commander rules committee despite being an official format for 10+ years. Seems like if people are playing multiplayer AoS games with their own rules they should focus on spreading them throughout the community rather than hoping GW comes up with something themselves.
The poor Hammer Guys have make a Horde coop mode for 40k .
Right? I’ve been trying to pitch this to Vince for quite awhile 🤷♂️
2 vs 2 with 1k points each person works very easily for casual play
Rough timing on this comment :p
All I’m gonna say is that you should look into The PoorHammer Podcast’s ‘horde mode’ multiplayer homebrew gamemode for Warhammer 40k.
Toms' face lighting up at the thought of multiple stacking ward saves! lol, never change
Aw man, pleasent kinobi. Love that guy. This cast is one of my favourite. Please please please invite kino to future warham weeklies ❤❤❤
Think S2D wins best paint job out of all the spearhead forces shown in these articles.
That black armour with the vibrant blues and glowing magenta eyes is poppin'!
Did not expect Vince, also know as VinceyV, talking to Vince, also known as Pleasant Kenobi!
I’ve played a lot of 4 player Warcry & it seems to work pretty well. Alternating activations seem to be key there
Great collaboration. Themes and cast work great together.
Glad you think so!
Great collab! The Magic discussion was hype and I don’t even play Magic :)
That being said, it was hard to watch at times. There was moments where PleasantKanobi would be getting hyped about AoS rules or some of the factions discussed and it hurt seeing that get squashed. Vince and Tom weren’t ever wrong with the critiques but there was never a moment that the excitement was embraced or expanded. It was a good discussion for rules but the forest was lost through the trees a bit. Having been watching the show since Soul Wars dropped, this was the first time I wanted to hear more from the guest than from Vince and Tom(…well, first time when the guest wasn’t Constantinos at least haha Love that dude’s insights 🙌🏻)
Again, great show overall and sorry if that sounded a bit too harsh. This show has always been a great community driver and I appreciate and love all the time, work, and passion that goes into making this show happen 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Great feedback! Thanks!
Great show. PK Was such a good guest and brought his brand of energy and it meshed really well. Maybe VinceyV does his show now?
Missed the stream, but catching the recap. Great collaboration.
@Vince, re: Stack abilities - Active player can use ANY of their abilities in ANY order they choose, so just like in magic, you can stack it just how you like - and then the inactive player will use all their reactions (after active players finish)
29:16 this is it, we have peaked as a species. It's all downhill from there
I fixed mighty destroyers
Once per turn army, any hero phase.
Declare: pick a friendly Ironjawz unit that was not set up this turn to be the target.
Effect: The target can move up to half its move characteristic rounding up, or 4", whichever is higher. It can move into combat, and if it does, that unit has made a charge move this turn. If it was in combat at the start of the move, it must remain in combat.
Keyword: Charge
I just want points I miss writing lists
Points and régiment rules (who brings who)
One thing I do like as a trend in 4th is removing some magical abilities from the spellcasting rules.
Like Lumineth not needing to CAST their 5+ mortals spell on their units, thus removing the need for those units to be wizards.
Like the D&D Style distinction of 'spell like abilities' that are blatantly magic, but not using the spellcasting rules (just without...you know...listing 30 different spell like abilities on some monster all needing unique look ups...)
5 Chaos gods?! This is Hashut erasure!
You are correct, not a real god. ;)
This feels like the most targeted crossover ever, wtf. All my favourite people together talking about AoS, the dream!
The Dark Master interaction is interesting and probably does need an FAQ. Playing a lot of 30k/Heresy lately and in that game's reaction system it works thus: Someone declares a charge on my unit, I can then choose to declare a reaction (hold the line, overwatch). They then roll their charge roll, but if they don't get it then I effectively get my reaction back. It's only used (bonus applied and reaction used up) if the charge was successful.
On a similar note to the Gonti story, Once I was completely milled out playing my reanimator deck (old chainer). Had just enough mana to win on my upkeep since my whole deck was in my GY. I don't think I've ever seen a big come from behind like that in 40k or AoS.
Nurgle mark is appropriatly powerful. Make the other onew an equal opportunity cost to them. But I am always a proponent of strong army abilities.
Also I think you would shut down enemy spell casting with dark master if they got the double for the second turn that is.
And Vince, exactly your rant about why you got into iron Jaws is how I feel about tzeentch. I got into them for how well they ally in third specifically to STD. I will literally be missing half an army if they get rid of allies. And the MVB needs to be moved factions if that's the case and replaced with something else in STD.
Also frankly I feel that AOS needs more play for Johnny's. I often feel like there is a real lack of Johnny mechanics in lots of factions and I want so much more. With the indexes it's even worse.
The double turn used to work as a win more and catch up mechanic.
I completely agree with Vince’s comment about the priority roll. GW has removed the “double turn” as a catch up mechanic, and it ONLY works as a win more strategy now.
I assume Vince is speaking from experience. Interested to see if it plays out as predicted.
You cant score some of your points if you take the double now
As a Seraphon player I really like the asterism thing. very flavorfull. Only think I might have liked better is being able to unlock multiple asterism as long as I achieve the prerequisite plan.
No Kruleboyz coverage guys? I mean, it's part of all the releases and I for one am hyped as hell for it.
We are going to go deep on them, worry not.
Maybe I'm weird, but I liked the old Ironjawz and I like the new Ironjawz. The new Ironjawz seems pretty decent to me.
Nah mate you’re not the one who’s being weird about this.
the shadows over hammerhal box had all these carboard god tokens, and they've been my saving grace avoiding confusion as a slaves main for years.
Yeah PK, noted Death & Taxes enjoyer liking how 3e Khorne plays totally tracks
Eye of the gods is broken. IMO. In an edition where they've said rend is generally down, all of slaves can be +4 to base rend from just eye of the gods or more. Theoretical maximum of +15 from 1 demon prince alone. Seems broken
One question though. There are abilities that says.
Once per battle
Once per battle (army)
Are there not a difference with those two wordings.
The one that says (army is once army wide)
The one without the (army). Could it be that it is once per battle for each of the heroes you have? Or something.
There must be a difference between the two wordings.
Yeah. Once per battle means any number of heroes could do it. Once per battle army means once period.
After seeing brutes I'm even more annoyed at stalkers.
We lose our special weapon. They kept theirs. Brutes have a better save, and more wounds for unit of 3 vs 5.
It's too complicated for us to have 1/3 damage 2 weapon, but it's fine for 1/5.
They absolutely suck at reveals. People like seeing hammers, show us some hammers, not a former hammer that is slower, more fragile, does 1/2 to 1/3rd as much damage and is apparently a tech piece.
I'm also ticked about this. I think Stalkers are the only unit that had a 'X per' weapon in 3rd that inexplicably lost it. Kroxigor kept theirs, brutes kept theirs, Liberators kept theirs, yet we lost ours.
How much money they make (WotC, GW) will always be more important as a publicly traded company than what the players and fans think. They have a fiduciary duty to maximize profits for shareholders, not please the player base. Obviously, if they go too far in that direction it will compromise the player base and sales, but who even knows how far they would have to go to make players of a lifestyle game disappear. Just like MtG, where the vast majority of players are kitchen table players, the majority of GW customers don't play the game at all. As long as they print cool looking art or build cool looking models, it will be hard for them to misstep. I say this knowing full well I'm part of the problem :)
The defile.tokens are bad because warp lightning vortex's damage is good. You can really easily threaten heros with objectives, that your opponent is forced to interact with. However, these can't be removed like terrain or endless spells.
Then don't put your heroes on the objective.
@@stevecatpatrick8056 ironically that's the issue.
Yes this is the point and problem, it's a negative play space. As Vince likes to say it's a "you can't play with your toys" kind of interaction.
Very excited Kenobi will be playing AoS.
i'm curious if STD Mark of Nurgle is better than what Maggotkin get. Basically is -1 to wound better than 5+ ward. Just off the bat I would say having the mark is actually better.
also YT is being really stupid with the ads and recommendations lately.
I fixed all the ads now I belive. It’s very annoying.
The crossover I didn't know I was waiting for. Cheers
Yeah... Nurgle is stupid good. If they wanted to have it be on par with the other marks, they should have had them heal a wound at the end of each combat phase they're engaged (and maybe make it D3 for Heroes and/or Monsters). Vince's conditional to-wound debuff is fine, but I like this better. They could also say they can't be wounded on better than 3+, but I don't think many things wound on 2+ and making it never better than 4+ is way too good.
Tzeentch should be 6+ Ward increased to 5+ vs. Magic, Prayers, and Manifestations.
Slaanesh should be +1 to charge and an extra rend for melee attacks.
Khorne and Undivided are fine.
At 1:26:00ish guest Vince mentioned something that has really been annoying me. Too often there are 4e rules with familiar names and flavorful descriptions that are absolutely dissonant from the effect of the rule
Yeah it would be cool if GW cared about the games people actually play. LIKE THE TABLETOP GAME WITH THE BIGEST EVENT! Bloodbowl. Last worlds was the biggest tabletop event (most coaches). So yeah, do more bloodbowl!
Did I miss your Kruleboyz faction focus review somewhere?
I think I skipped over them in between weeks, but I will go deep when we have the index
I've always been more drawn to the armies that are more finess, elves in general, but in recent times I was wondering if I like them conceptually but maybe I would enjoy a "simpler" gameplay more. Go fast and punch things. I was thinking about starting Beastclaw Raiders or Ironjawz. Now both seem to have been gutted in this regard. I wonder what's the go to army for this type of play is now? I'm not too big a fan of Sons of Behemat.
Time will tell.
It’s still Ironjawz. If anything the new rules are better.
@@xavierwt It‘s not about power. Of course the new mighty destroyers is powerful, it‘s just not the thing I want. I‘ve played with Lumineth enough, I‘ve been the denier of fun, for my opponent and myself as well. 🤣
I've been triple turned by old Seraphon. The salt levels were high that game. Lol.
Hey Vince, will you be at Origins Game Fair this weekend?
I will not sadly
The guys at poorhammer came up with a multiplayer mode for 40k called horde mode maybe theres a way to bring that to aos too
I forgot to hit the like button last week and brainstorm locked myself😢
Is professor x Calvary is my favorite question
Tornus the Redeemed / new Knight-Azyros looks awesome
My bet for new Knight-Venator is it will be released when they redo the Vanguard Chamber in X years
Good guest! :)
Indeed!
I don't know what was different today but the ads on this episode were oppressive. I was getting ads every 6-8 minutes. Hope you are getting an uplift in revenue for that, if you weren't so entertaining I'd have switched off!
That is TH-cam doing that, it has been fixed now. Sorry about that.
Nice conversation. Though I lost track who was Good Vince and who was Bad Vince.
Seeing the stats for Chaos Warriors and Ironjaw Brutes so close together makes me even sadder about Liberators only having 2 wounds and 2 attacks. I thought those lightning-forged warriors were more powerful and more elite than all the other mortal fighters? The indexing of 4th would have been a great opportunity to make Stormcast truly elite by raising the wounds and attacks of even their basic units to 3...
Awesome crossover
Thanks!
No timestamps :(
I had no idea how to timestamp this one.
Why was Ironjawz made worse? They were already bottom of the table. How come humans are 4+/4+ and orks are 4+/3+ but Darkoath Marauders are 4+/3+ and brutes are 4+/3+? Shouldn't brutes be the elite fighters of Orruks? How come they're the same as humans? Ardboys will also be the same? Same as Gutrippaz? Gutrippaz and Brutes have the same hit and wound profile? Why does GW not follow its own metrics?
Did you not notice their damage characteristic doubled?
@@xavierwt did you notice they went to a 4+ to hit? Brutes are better. There's no question. I just don't get why darkoath Marauders are the same. That's all I'm saying. And that the Ironjawz battle traits are even more lackluster than Ogors.
@@markpandelidis2079 the battle traits are insanely good. If you don’t see it that’s a you issue, not a battle trait issue.
@@xavierwt we will see when the data comes in. But by what I heard in this video, it doesn't sound like you are correct. We will see.
I really need someone to explain the definitions between Johnnies, Timmies etc...
I have a few Warhammer weeklies in the playlist where we talk about it. :)
About a mark of the Great Horned Rat, I just listened to the Call of Archaeon audio book like a week ago and I swear they mentioned a banner to him being present in a scrum of Varanguard aspirants... let's make it do
On Ironjawz: it is so annoying when they change the playstyle or the feel of an army you play.
For me it was Ogres: I play them because I wanted a ABC army. I don't care if they are good or bad.
If they are not an ABC army they are ruined to me.
And this is why I am so disappointed that they continued to stick with drops determining turn 1 priority- it completely nueters the freedom to build armies how a player wants to build them cause everyone is so concerned about drops and turn 1 priority. It should be a 50/50 roll-off where everyone deploys and prepares for the worst and reacts accordingly. I get it that list-building is part of the tactics of the competetive game, but it should ultimately be what happens on the table, not what happens before the table. Limiting core options of the army build is just not good for the game.
I too find weird that priority is determined by a roll on each turn except the first. If less drops just gave a bonus on the roll I would be fine with it.
Sigmar: The Gathering.