If there's one thing that perfectly illustrates your thoughts, it's the clip of you down on your knees talking to that young painter in the beginning of the video. It's hard to put in the work and build up the courage for a painting competition, especially one like golden demon. It should be an event to encourage fellow painters and to continue the passion they have. If you ever decided to organize competitions of your own I'm sure they'd be a big hit if you feel so inclined. I'm sure that kid in the beginning would be thrilled to enter too!
Listening to Vince throughout the weeks commenting on how he just wasn't enjoying painting his entries to GD because it was crushing all the joy out of it was no fun at all. Glad you're casting yourself free of the thing that wasn't bringing joy to your art.
You know, when Dirty Steve was the photographer during Games Day when they did Golden Daemon, it didn't matter if it was a clear winner or my complete trash I submitted, I watched as he received each and every model with respect, care, and was careful with each one, no matter what. You could talk to him! He took wonderful photos, and he was part of that team. These were good days, and they (GW) lost their way in this.
I loved when they used to show GD stuff in white dwarf, I always dig out my old magazines to look through them, for starters, they had little squares that showed particularly interesting details up close, they also had SEVERAL pages of runner-ups and those were really cool to see. Truly GW has failed the community in this competition.
@@thegiantratthatmakesallthe5055 You used to have a couple of issues a year where a dozen or more pages were set aside showcasing all the work in the Top Threes and Honorable Mentions for each category. You could spend hours hashing out with your mates why _this_ and not _that_ deserved First or Second Place in Diorama or Vehicle or Large Monster. It really gave you a sense of what was state-of-the-art in painting and modelling. Last time I saw something like that in WD was a 4 page spread in 2018, and it showcased a total of 7 single figure models.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with the GD. I'm just started painting miniatures this year. I have been building model kits for 30+ years and I came from the competitive part of model building and I got tired of not enjoying the hobby because of the pressure of have something done for the competition. Now, my best award is when someone in a show tells me "I like your work" and ask you how you did that. For me that’s the best award I can receive.
I'm glad you are able to express yourself so openly and wholeheartedly. I've always looked to you as a mentor and I think you said it in the video, you want to play with and be more bold with light. Last year, that elf bust you painted with multiple light sources; absolutely sensational. I want to see more like that from you, and look forward to you exploring more creative freedom. You can do it!
I can relate. I used to enjoy oil painting on 16 x 20 canvas . But when I started to enter into contest, it just stop being fun altogether. I lost my passion for painting all together. Mini painting has brought back my love for this craft and you have taught me so so much. Glad you have the right perspective on it.
Vince, Thank you for keeping this Hobby and passion alive. Your dedication and devotion to the Hobby is unmatched and the epitome of selfless service to a community you love. Bravo.
Pausing at 8:50 to say: You came on and paint judged a competition that I had on my channel some time ago. Immediately I noticed the difference between you and the Judges I've met at events... you offered help, direction and encouragement. For the longest time I said I'd never do a painting contest.... but really I just want to do yours :) loving the chat, buddy :)
Vince, you receive my GD from me. The joy and love I see in your face when you discuss your love of this hobby and your ability to touch others, including myself, brings tears to my eyes. The closest success I've had with visual arts would be from my elementary paint days at school. While I'm sure my mother and father thought they were fantastic, I never thought much of them. However, today, my painting journey started and will remain to continue with you. You have given me the confidence to believe in myself with I approach painting. I am thankful to be able to leave something so small like a comment on your videos and feel so special to receive something so large as your time to either 'like' my comment, and or even spend a few minutes of your time to answer my beginner's questions. You are truly a joy and I really appreciate all the content you've shared with me. I hope everyday when you look at yourself in the mirror, you take just a second to look at yourself and say, "I make people happy". Thank you for everything.
I cannot *fathom* why they don't have a full, multipicture gallery of every commended/etc. entry for every year. Having a massive backlog of gorgeous art to display on their website, showing the best of their products, the diversity and variety of their hobbyists and creators is...just...madness. That would be SUCH an asset for marketing!
Not just a marketing standpoint, But a respect to the artists that carry their hobby and inspire a large group of us to buy and paint there miniatures! it's a shame... To be clear Participation trophies are super lame. But having your hard work showcased to the broader audience. absolutely without a doubt should be happening... NEVER trust the judges! You're awesome man, Keep doing you! @Vince Venturella
Must just be time. I imagine it would take a heap of time and effort to photograph all the entries to a decent level, rather than just the one shot from the one angle. I agree with you, they should pump out the pics for months. But it would just be time and money preventing them
Having a small photobooth setup to snapshot each piece as they turn in there pieces and paying a couple people to do it is more then affordable for GW and easily plausible.@@firesotormlizard01
I especially don't understand it as the costs to do such photos and the costs of putting them on a website would probably be nothing compared to the costs of the event. I won't go to an event just to see the Golden Demon submissions thus I will never have a chance to see what actually happens there - so for who is GW even bother doing such an event? They don't take full advantage of it, they don't give the artists taking part in it neither exposure nor feedback and we fans also don't see the actual exceptional and inspiring work that was displayed there. So much is wasted from these events it makes no sense when it actually could be improved with such a minor additional investment.
I totally agree, they literally sell paint, they'd sell more of that too, and more models to paint with different/custom chapters. Also they could have a field and recognize category entries by hours committed (Tabletop Ready/Parade/Display) and give customers realistic expectations, and also an idea of what's possible and how it was achieved with the artists story.
Very interesting and good points, can't disagree with anything said. The flaw-seeking approach is truly a moloch - it's like judging a book by the typos and grammar instead of the overall story. In the UK 2022 we didn't see the judges either, which is a bummer, because I wanted some feedback, but couldn't get it. Thanks for the video!
Nova was my first competition last year, and going out of it I felt nothing but excitement about getting started with my piece for this year. This competition did so well to show me what I was doing well while challenging me to improve. I’ve been very happy to recommend Nova to friends as a way to try out competition painting and challenge themselves to improve. Thank you for your part in that, Vince
You're not the only painter that I've seen express these issues this year. I love your content on TH-cam, and my favorite videos of yours are the ones you're passionate about. I can't wait to see more of that content and I'm excited to watch and join in with models and projects that you really enjoy.
Thank you for your thoughts on the competition. I've heard similar comments from a few people, but not with as much explanation and thought as to how it could be better. There are SO many amazing pieces in that competition every time. I'm not sure I'll ever get to the point I want to do a competition, but I know that many of those rules would definitely leave me feeling a bit down on the whole thing. All that said, it's great to see you so pumped for what comes next, and I know we're all excited to see it come to the channel!
Kahas vehicle entry blew me away literally blew my mind…her entries literally re-inspired me to get better at painting and concentrate on finding my own style rather than trying to paint like someone else
I love hearing about what you want out of a contest and I was really happy to see the part of the video we're you were encouraging the young painter and how you were doing it (on their eye level). Thanks for being the hobby hero this community needs.
Wish there was a trophy for your contribution to the hobby and community, if so you'd take home the Slayer Sword. Thank you for helping us all better enjoy the hobby and becoming better painters with each HC video. Also glad you are doing what you love. Hopefully more work like your amazing collaboration with creature caster. Ninjon had similar thoughts, maybe you can create a better competition.
The great Trovarian Miniatures released a video recently on his own thoughts with competitive miniature painting. It makes a great companion video to this.
It’s a rare person who can look at their Hobby and be brutally honest with themselves when something isn’t right. Kudos to you for stepping away from something that doesn’t “spark joy”, really looking forward seeing where your path takes you moving forward.
A lack of transparency and consistency in a competition undermines its validity. Your models were amazing btw, thanks for making your videos - they have been inspirational and instructive in helping me to develop my skills. Thank you and I can't wait to see what you will be doing!
Love love your openness about such an event your honesty does not go unnoticed!!!! Keep up your amazing work and teaching I have learned so much watching you and some of the other creators hope our views and continue s views help you understand that your channel and add ins do make a difference in the community!!! Thx homie
I almost shed a tear when I look at Alexandre Dos Santos' piece. I want to see the back of that cloak sooooo much. Apparently it's done in a Mongolia/Japanese/Chinese type style. I really thought his and Andy Wardle's Glutos were the best pieces but pictures only tell us 40% of the reality of these pieces of art. I'm happy for you that this is your last one and you're at peace with that. You offer so much more than having a GD on your shelf. You're a teacher to many of us and you've kept us in the hobby and allowed us to progress and keep it going. A big thank you.
@@spilbobaggins I just looked now. Amazing. I'm even more surprised that it didn't get gold. The one thing about them not showing more pictures or not showing other peoples pieces seems like a way to stop criticism against their decisions on who won gold etc.
I entered my first comp a month or two back in Melb, and if I hadn't had the chance to talk to the three judges afterwards, and they hadn't been so generous with their time and thoughtful feedback, I would of walked away to never enter another again. But instead I know how I need to improve and am excited to see what I can do for next year. Thanks for these thoughts, great video
This was one of the best hobby videos I’ve watched. Good for you for having the courage to say this. We are having a debate/revolt in the scale modeling world right now between 1,2,3 judging vs. Gold, Silver Bronze judging where each model is judged against itself and whether it makes a standard. Love to hear this
I can’t be the only one who’s seeing this as a win for Vince and for the community. That’s hundreds of hours he gets to spend on passion projects which he will, in his ever generous way, share with us. Love you Vince!
It's remarkable how your feedback of the Golden Demon procedure goes hand in hand with the feedback of other fellow youtubers like Ninjon. Please always keep in mind that your work in the miniature painting world goes way beyond the Golden Demon trophy. Your work was one of my main drivers to start painting miniatures again after a 25 year hiatus 3 years ago. To me you are one of the (if not _the_) main tutors to learn from. Your work ethos has a huge impact on my work and how to set up realistic expectations to myself. Your videos help me on countless occasions to push my skill to the next level because you have the gift of explaining complicated painting patterns in easy to understand words.
My worst painting competition experience was at LVO 2022. Largely for the same reasons, transparency and consistency. I reviewed the event rules beforehand, chose my category with care, and when I was bewildered at the end, I asked for my score (the rubric provided gave scoring information). The organizer/head judge said they didn't use that system at all. No numerical scores. No weights like stated in the rubric. My disappointment was more to do with feeling like I was lied to than with not winning. It crushed my spirit, if I'm being honest. I put myself way out there to even enter, thinking I understood what to expect. As I said, it was the worst miniature painting event experience of my life. It made me want to quit trying.
Glad to see you doing what's doing what feels best for you and I'm happy to hear how excited you are for the future. Getting to see all the entries in person was inspiring, pictures can't do them justice!
As a pure spectator of such competition, I am always thrilled to see beautiful minis (even though I rely more on creators themselves on IG and youtube rather than GW own website…) but if the actual process and contest suck so much, I fully understand why one would stop participating ! As long as we still see your work here on this channel, it’s fine :-)
My only issue with Golden Demon now - is I feel like the main categories are dominated by professional painters. It feels if you aren't a professional commission painter, there's no point entering if you want to win - you're just such a huge underdog.
You are one the people that have inspired and made other people wanna improve their painting, their hobbying as very very few others. You are a literal hobby hero for so many of us. Sad that you did not enjoy it but you did take the knowledge you needed ir from it as you said. It’s just isn’t for you and that’s completely fine. Can’t wait more of your painting tutorials and learn even more stuff !
Their loss & our gain! Looking forward to all that you are now free to explore and enjoy. And yes, as so many others have said, as always, love your passion and sincerity. Thanks for all the joy, knowledge, and wisdom you bring to us. Keep calm and keep on painting minis!!!
I was lucky to have Alex paint Jaghatai for me. I agree. A 360 degree photo would have shown the incredible work on the cape. You are a wonderful teacher. One of the best on TH-cam.
Vince you are a true hero of the hobby and a personal inspiration of mine. Keep doing whatever it is you want to do and with the channel and we'll be here, watching. Watching your vids I mean. That last part could sound ominous.
I think the feedback loop in competitions is super important. You can't grow unless someone tells you what you could do differently, or better, or what made them select/not select you to win or place.
One of the coolest things I've noticed since coming back into the hobby after about ten years away from it is that the hobby as a whole has progressed and the overall level of excellence is, well, excellent. It's great being in a friend group where everyone has stuff they can be proud of and you're excited and impressed by everyone's style. I've painted models light years beyond what I did when I was a teenager, and I get to see and draw inspiration from a bunch of other people executing their own interesting styles and techniques similarly well. I'd love to see a contest that's a celebration of the community's excellence as a whole, because the level of excellence is outstanding. As far as contributing to that, a friend was asking for resources on painting techniques, and you were the first one linked.
Was worried for a second, thinking you felt defeated. So glad you recognize your own value and humbly remark on what is the true reason your done with GD. Want to say your banelash has been a huge inspiration for my custom emperors children I hope one day to share with you
The legend grows as you and Jon have enticed me back into the hobby after decades since I was painting Grenadier leads with enamel. Your Hobby Cheating library is worth more than any amount of Golden Demon awards.
Sad to hear we won’t see your work at GD going forward, but totally understand where you’re coming from. In general, st least for me, painting specifically for competition just isn’t fun, or at least diminishes it. I was lucky to pick up a silver last year for a piece a really enjoyed doing an had no notion of competing with. On the other hand, the piece I tailored to GD and really pushed with was a chore towards the end. I learnt to just paint what you love and have passion for, good things will come.
Your true love of the hobby shines thru in each one of your videos, and this is no exception. I agree with all your points which you explain clearly and with equanimity……and I will hope that GW listens to your suggestions and implants them. In the meantime, I will find contests that encourage everyone by measuring the entries against a given level of expertise and that encourage judges to provide comments and feedback to the entrants. I have found those 2 processes to be the best positive approaches for what I want in a contest. I hope you’ll be feeling better soon - and thanks again for your insights and suggestions. Looking forward to your upcoming videos!
Ivan here. Thanks for the kind words, and the advice and support I got working on that knight. The sweat and tears turned out to be worth it and I'm very proud. I feel the same way about many things you said. The incentives laid by top-3-or-nothing, plus the focus on pedantry, lead to imagination and bravery being punished unless they're executed to 11/10 levels. That doesn't feel right to me. As an observer, I want to see and enjoy imagination and bravery on display, and see it rewarded, not nitpick over imperfect blends or brushstrokes. Vince knows this, but while working on that knight, I originally wanted to do more, tell slightly different stories with additional elements, but no. It was the wrong choice for this competition. I needed to enter a knight that does knight stuff, painted like a knight would be, stay in the lane as far as color choices go; and so I did just that, turned up to 11 on execution and attention to detail. I don't know how to be part of the solution. Participating in smaller competitions, bringing attention to them, is a necessary step for sure. But I like my warhammers, and many of the smaller competitions (at least at Adepticon) are also company or IP locked. I hope Monte, Nova and others get more prestigious than GD (I'd argue Monte is already at a higher painting standard) and I wish there were a painter's choice competition at Adepticon that's not tied to a brand or style.
I know all the choices you made weren't your original vision, but your piece was absolutely exceptional and you earned that win my friend. Just stellar work and you should be proud for sure.
I found your channel 4 years ago, one year into my hobby return and the amount of Motivation and fun in learning you provide is just incredible, you definitely won my golden teacher competition my man, love your take on this and big shoutout to All your students and painters out there, Grab that brush and go AT it ❤
At the end, golden demon is marketing event disguised as painting competition organized by a giant gaming company. And it feels that the root cause. At unrelated, do you think it would be better if those “meta” comment be separated from other hobby cheating video ? This kind of video do not age so well compare since the subject is fixed in time. So it feels strange
Vince the level of emotional intelligence you routinely display is amazing. You have been my guide over the hobby journey for nearly a decade. Your ability of self analysis is something I really look up to. Feel better man. We have more steps ahead of us.
A very mature and insightful argument. Thanks. I agree that painting should be a wholesome and uplifting experience. Thanks for sharing, especially regarding the apparent flaws in judging.
When one door closes, another opens. I'm glad you found a positive result from a negative situation. Thank you for helping us to elevate our craft, and our fun! :)
Hi Vince. I'm actually happy you are choosing this path. I consider that you are a person who tries to shine light around him, and this seems like a very coherent choice. I wish you the best with your steps on the path of the miniature art. I know I'll be watching.
As our hobby grows and evolves, I find myself "judging" pieces by originality and artistry more and more. While critique is healthy, art should never be agressively competitive.
Art is always going to be competitive if you're talking commercial or competition formats. Outside of those, it's exactly as competitive as you want it to be, as you are the only judge. There's not really any way to change that.
@@realname8362 "Art is always gonna be competitive if you're talking competitions" is a rather redundant tautological answer friend. Pretty sure that's the exactly the point :)
Thank you for you Honesty and everything you said. Thank you for the privileged of being on your Patreon!! Don’t know if I will ever paint for a GW store competition. My store experience was horrible. I received no feedback and there was no showing of why the winners won and how the final scores were tabulated. I believe it is the corporate intervention system. Your feedback to me has always been helpful and positive. Thank you!!
Great video and recap. Ninjon also mentioned that GW didn't even know who would judge the contest until a few days before. This also shows GW's disrespect towards the painters. This is not a knock on the actual judges but had GW at least flown over 3 people from their Eavy Metal team to judge that would have shown they cared about consistency and transparency for the US GD. What do you think?
I've learned plenty of techniques from you on non-GW models. I'm here to see you paint, and would prefer you enjoy it as well. I think most of us feed off that passion. Wherever you go, I'm here for it, brudda!
Thank you for this, Vince. It made me feel much better about Golden Demon This was my first Adepticon and first Golden Demon. I spent 116 hours on my main entry. I was expecting being able to get feedback. The Golden Demon was the only low part of Adepticon. It was so bad for me that I don't want to be a Games Workshop customer anymore. I will try to get back to Adepticon next year. I might try my hand at resin beast.
Vince, your channel is more important than ANY contest ever could be. Fine Art competitions are absolutely brutal. One open show my work was rejected and the reason the judge gave it "didn't fit in with the "feel" of the show". These things are always arbitrary. What I love about your channel is your ability to demonstrate technique and inspire others to do their best work. What could be more important ? You are a treasure sir and everything else pales in comparison to the work you do right here.
All valid feelings and I fully agree. GD is feeling so disconnected from the community that actively supports them. I really appreciated your feedback from Resin Beast!
Absolutely! Discovering and developing your unique artistic style can be a heavy but rewarding journey. It often involves exploring different techniques, influences, and mediums while also reflecting on personal experiences and emotions. Embracing your individuality as an artist can lead to powerful expressions of creativity. What kind of art are you interested in, or what styles do you find yourself drawn to? when learn that not try golden demon style to try to win, know that you have your own style.
I am so glad you put out this video Vince, it has helped me so much. recently I attended a competition and felt that I got overlooked with my minatures even though I spent months converting and painting. But due to the style which I choose to paint in which is grimdark I feel I got overlooked, I have been down for a while about it. But with this video it has made me think, I paint to make me happy rather then others and I should focus on that, rather then pleasing others (please don't get me wrong, many loved my stuff and I have won many a prize and I love all those that support my style) But this video has made me really give myself a big up and help me get back my hobby mojo. Thank you so much and I happy to see you still want to carry on with the brush yourself! keep going your a true inspiration
Nicely said Vince. Looking forward to seeing more of your wonderful work. Would love to see a behind the scenes of you judging at another painting Competition.
I can’t even start to understand how you feel about all of this. I was painting last night and was frustrated with my progress from the smallest things. You’re an amazing person and painter, I take great joy knowing I learned a lot from you although sucking at it 😢
The last time I followed the Golden Demon competition (and frankly, even cared) was back in the mid to late 1990s. Back then, there were numerous categories, with lots of variety of entries, and many winners. I think that's the way to go.
Hey Vince, It was a absolute Amazing thing to get to meet you and Jon at Adepticon this year. Both of you are big inspirations to me in the hobby. Thank you for taking the time to geek out with a , admittedly, very over-hyped fan. To your point about Contests and certain styles of contests. I am a Military Armor Modeler ( as well Minis and NASA work) and found that I too was not enjoying building entries for contests. Building and painting to someone elses standard sucked all the joy from the project. Its been many years since I have entered a contest for anything. I do this for relaxation, for the joy of creation, for the rush when I improve . Not for the accolades. There are those that do, and I applaud their efforts. Like you , that mode is not for me. Thank you for giving voice to a concern some of us have been feeling. Carry on sir. I will be watching .
You do have a point Vince. GD could be a lot better. Although I fear that since it's becoming more popular from year to year nothing will change to the better. Irrelevant question, where did you get your case? Would love to get one!
Quite the speech, Vince, thanks for sharing - I understand where you're coming from. Both the process and the contest have to be fun, regardless of whether you win or not. I'm thrilled with the Commendeds I've managed to win at top shows, but the main reasons to attend are to have fun, and to learn, and be energised.
Great video! I'm very excited to see the next step in the channel with other brands and scales. I'm always here for the knowledge and not for the GW stuff.
I generally enjoy your positive outlook and all you have done for the hobby, but honestly this comes off as really really bitter. Could they do a better job, sure but had you won, would this be the same video?
@@Zazuzozu if he wins, is he making this video? The answer I think is unequivocally no. Not saying his criticism isn't valid, I just don't like the dilution idea. Three winners is what makes it prestigious. The competition is way harder now, and thats going to push people harder or push them away.
@@brianfutrelle5676 He has won golden demons before. He has also lost, at a lot of golden demon events. This is the first time he is making a video like this, and generally seems to be echoing the sentiment of a lot of painters, that GW treated this event with a complete lack of respect for the participants. His points are all very valid, constructive, and none boil down to 'I'm sad I lost'. Even some of the winners are pretty unhappy with how they handled the event (i.e., they broke Ben Kantor's gold diorama). They didn't even know who was judging the competition until on the day, and as far as I'm aware, none of them were professional painters. That should really say enough imo.
I would have made the video yes. This has been something on my mind for a while. None of this had to do with me winning or losing (as I certainly tried to make clear), but with the process, the way the contest is handled and so on. If I benefitted from what I see as a broken process, I would have been no more pleased. You can choose to believe me or not. I am not asking for them to change to open, as I said, they can structure their competition however they like and it's good to have different kinds of competitions. But things like transparency, consistency and respect are non-negotiables for me.
So many amazing pieces. I can only dream of participating, never mind winning any kind of recognition at all. Have so much work to do to get better. Thank you for sharing, your own pieces were bloody awesome!
I was at the GD in Essen and can only confirm your thoughts, I feel really bad for people not even getting a mention on the warhammer-community page. I feel really bad for the painters. They are the stars of the show.
Thank you for this very frank assessment of the issues with the Golden Demon in 2023. I was a guest on Trapped Under Plastic a little over a year ago and spoke on this topic. I feel like the top three, winner-take-all competition is an anachronism in today’s hobby. So much more can be gained by using the Open system and recognizing excellent work at multiple levels of achievement for so many more modelers. I agree with your reasoning in this video and support your decision not to participate in the future. There are many more shows you can participate in and have a far better experience.
Hey Vince! I ran into you at the Mini Hobby Events competition at Gen Con last year, which was super cool! I think that competition is the standard for me as far as mini painting growth is concerned. Thanks for the video! This was a great watch!
I'll always be on your side... I recently got back into painting miniatures and you tutorial videos, along with other have helped me to find the joy I once had.... Keep it up... All you stuff to me deserves a Golden Desmond award.... Sometimes it's the small flaws that make a piece special anyway special
As always your insight is appreciated Vince. It really inspires me to finally start entering painting competitions. Time to take a stab at Capital Palette! Also wanted to shout out how thrilled I am that hometown hero Oscar Lars placed silver with his Necromunda diorama!
Vince, I pinged you about some of these subjects about a year ago. Specifically on grading, feedback, etc. This video is fantastic. I feel so many of us idolize being a Golden Demon winner, but the subjectivity and lack of engagement are really disappointing to hear, and you alluded to this before. Given how many hours and dollars people are spending to craft these masterpieces, transport them from around the world, and fly in to participate, some structured transparency is just a sign of respect to you and the other artists.
Vince, you definitely inspire me, I always enjoy your work and have learned so much from you through TH-cam! Seems like you've had a bit of a revelation through this experience and you've grown through the process... definitely a winning situation in my eyes. Unfortunately I wasn't able to make it to Adepticon this year so I didn't get to see any of the pieces up close so your thoughts on them needing to add more pictures and recognize more people is spot on! It would be nice to enjoy them vicariously through some photos... it wouldn't have been that hard to add more of them for sure. Thanks for sharing!
I entered a piece at adepticon this year almost for the sole purpose of getting feedback on what was done well and what needed work, from professional judges. I was so disappointed when I got my model back and was told nothing, and had no written critique. Literally handed it back and said better luck next time. Your points are spot on.
I hope you're feeling better, Vince. Really good video. I'm not in the same realm of skill as you (I've won some LSG RTT best painted's), but your words ring true. If you're going to paint for hours and hours, it needs to be a good feeling. Capping off the experience with dismissal isn't healthy for anyone. Hopefully, GW hears that and considers where they fit in the hobby community as a company. If not, well, at least the community takes care of its own. Keep painting, Vince. Your channel is A+ and you're an inspiration. Your Eldar video with the orange and teal scheme still sticks in my head. Can't wait for the upcoming videos and how you view "breaking the rules."
The feedback point is so valid. I put pics of a mini on a Facebook page that you reviewed, and the feedback still sticks with me. My TMM are better now than they were before. I look back at metalics I painted before that feedback and I'm so tempted to strip the entire mini and redo, it's hard to resist. Thank you for your feedback!
All of the models you showed at the end were so incredible, and that Horus diorama made me gasp out loud!! Wow. Unreal talent here. Totally understand your decision not to continue with GD, and thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's got to be about what brings us joy!
I was all ready to call sour grapes on your vid after a min or so, but after watching it fully, I couldn’t agree more. I stopped painting years ago here in Australia for different reasons, but the way it was run back then sounds like it hasn’t changed much . There used to be entrants that would put down others work when it was in the cases purely to try and influence the judges, and other pieces which were obviously head and shoulders above the rest were cut or barely placed. The Australian demon judges in Sydney tended to bias the locals heavily, and I flew up from Melbourne. I loved the actual competition though and used the real judging, by other competitors as inspiration to try new techniques and different styles. This was all pre internet though when the biggest rush was seeing your mini in white dwarf. Seems like it was and still is a universal fault with their judging, because every other mini competition was like you said, very transparent. Love your work and OMG the quality of the art is insane now, it’s a whole other level.
You are the best teacher in general there is on youtube. Your videos have opened my eyes to many things. I can say with absolute certainty you make many people happy just by sharing your knowledge. Golden Demon Level is by and large uninteresting for many of us. I'm glad you're doing what makes you happy again. Stay as you are.
Mr. Venturella, to be honst ,... You are the reason, why I Improved my painting skills, ( my absolute favorite ,the Crimson Fist in oils ) you clearly elevated my painting life. Thanks to you I got deeper in to oils and found James Wappel and so on ,... Im in a state, where no single Golden Demon would bring me. I mean their judgings arent anything worth, to me ,and as long as there are human beeings who will judge , it will always be the overall "Dictatorship of Art" anyways. I dont need to be a good painter or do I have a clue about it ,I can always have my opinion,but Golden Demon is a Lottery. Keep up the good work and take more people on a happy painter journey !
This video really helps Vince. I feel that we collectively give GD the value that it has and the emotional echo that comes off the community is that of stress, negativity, and the creative constraint of painting for a single purpose rather than within the endless avenues that art can offer. I didn’t get a chance to meet you at Adepticon but I hope you will judge my miniatures next year!
Just listening to you and your reasons for why and what you are doing earned you a subscription. I am going to check out your back catalogue, you are an inspirational man, Vincent. Thank you!
Welcome to the club of "only painting what I'm inspired to do because its fun". I look forward to seeing you painting stuff for competitions that inspire you in the coming year(s) and recognising more amazing painters that are out there that are not constrained by the GW mentality! (Also someone needs to tell Sam, that actual scientists say we use 100% of our brain, "scientists" might say otherwise of course.)
Vince, you totally nailed it buddy! I used to be all in when it came to model painting contests and about 5 years ago I had the same revelation. I kept finding myself painting more and more thinking of what the judges would look for instead of what I wanted to do. This took away the fun out of the hobby to the point where it was actually stressful because I did not wanted to make mistakes. I think the big problem is that painting models is an art, and when you run a competition (especially with only 1,2 & 3 places) is that you need to turn sumething suggestive into someting objective and mechanical. Thats why they resort to finding “flaws”. And in the process of hair splitting, there is no room to account for things like style, which makes it boring and unfair. I am glad you are going down this path. Thrust me you wont regret it.
You're making some great points as always Vince. Pouring that much effort into something, burning out the passion for the project, to not even get any feedback would be infuriating. I felt the same after painting a GUO for an online comp near the end of the year, to not even hear anything for weeks after the pic were sent. It put me off painting for a few months (though I picked up the bass guitar more), and only just got back into it after reading Chris's The Art of Painting. If what you're doing is sucking the joy out of something you love, don't do it. Always do it your way regardless of acolades! Seems crazy they don't make GD yearly book of all the pics
15 years ago I thought it would be a no-brainer for gw to sell a thick book of multiple shots of all medallists.
I think they would be competing with their own game at that point. They would rather people buy codex's and play the game.
Or even just a deluxe white dwarf dedicated to it.
@@dominicparker6124 Yeah I like this idea way better. Seems like just free content for them to monetize.
They have done a book like that a thin hard cover over 20 yrs ago.
A lotta folks don't even play the game but the money generated is just not the same from them
If there's one thing that perfectly illustrates your thoughts, it's the clip of you down on your knees talking to that young painter in the beginning of the video. It's hard to put in the work and build up the courage for a painting competition, especially one like golden demon. It should be an event to encourage fellow painters and to continue the passion they have. If you ever decided to organize competitions of your own I'm sure they'd be a big hit if you feel so inclined. I'm sure that kid in the beginning would be thrilled to enter too!
That’s what makes Vince, Vince. Well said.
Vince judges the Resin Beast, which is drawing more attention
Listening to Vince throughout the weeks commenting on how he just wasn't enjoying painting his entries to GD because it was crushing all the joy out of it was no fun at all.
Glad you're casting yourself free of the thing that wasn't bringing joy to your art.
obviously GD is a trash competition. Where some weak lame a-- boring single Skink brings home the sword. Just laughable.
You know, when Dirty Steve was the photographer during Games Day when they did Golden Daemon, it didn't matter if it was a clear winner or my complete trash I submitted, I watched as he received each and every model with respect, care, and was careful with each one, no matter what. You could talk to him! He took wonderful photos, and he was part of that team. These were good days, and they (GW) lost their way in this.
yes, Eff GW. Greedy predatory business
I loved when they used to show GD stuff in white dwarf, I always dig out my old magazines to look through them, for starters, they had little squares that showed particularly interesting details up close, they also had SEVERAL pages of runner-ups and those were really cool to see. Truly GW has failed the community in this competition.
@@thegiantratthatmakesallthe5055 You used to have a couple of issues a year where a dozen or more pages were set aside showcasing all the work in the Top Threes and Honorable Mentions for each category. You could spend hours hashing out with your mates why _this_ and not _that_ deserved First or Second Place in Diorama or Vehicle or Large Monster. It really gave you a sense of what was state-of-the-art in painting and modelling. Last time I saw something like that in WD was a 4 page spread in 2018, and it showcased a total of 7 single figure models.
The importance of sound leadership, good recruitment and a healthy corporate culture
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with the GD. I'm just started painting miniatures this year. I have been building model kits for 30+ years and I came from the competitive part of model building and I got tired of not enjoying the hobby because of the pressure of have something done for the competition. Now, my best award is when someone in a show tells me "I like your work" and ask you how you did that. For me that’s the best award I can receive.
I'm glad you are able to express yourself so openly and wholeheartedly. I've always looked to you as a mentor and I think you said it in the video, you want to play with and be more bold with light. Last year, that elf bust you painted with multiple light sources; absolutely sensational. I want to see more like that from you, and look forward to you exploring more creative freedom. You can do it!
I can relate. I used to enjoy oil painting on 16 x 20 canvas . But when I started to enter into contest, it just stop being fun altogether. I lost my passion for painting all together. Mini painting has brought back my love for this craft and you have taught me so so much. Glad you have the right perspective on it.
Vince,
Thank you for keeping this Hobby and passion alive.
Your dedication and devotion to the Hobby is unmatched and the epitome of selfless service to a community you love.
Bravo.
I always draw some energy/will to paint from watching Vince's videos! :)
@@xeroxknight I also agree:) the journey is almost like a religion 10/10
Pausing at 8:50 to say: You came on and paint judged a competition that I had on my channel some time ago. Immediately I noticed the difference between you and the Judges I've met at events... you offered help, direction and encouragement. For the longest time I said I'd never do a painting contest.... but really I just want to do yours :) loving the chat, buddy :)
Thank you sir, it was an honor to judge and I'm sorry I missed you at ADepticon.
Vince, you receive my GD from me. The joy and love I see in your face when you discuss your love of this hobby and your ability to touch others, including myself, brings tears to my eyes. The closest success I've had with visual arts would be from my elementary paint days at school. While I'm sure my mother and father thought they were fantastic, I never thought much of them. However, today, my painting journey started and will remain to continue with you. You have given me the confidence to believe in myself with I approach painting. I am thankful to be able to leave something so small like a comment on your videos and feel so special to receive something so large as your time to either 'like' my comment, and or even spend a few minutes of your time to answer my beginner's questions. You are truly a joy and I really appreciate all the content you've shared with me. I hope everyday when you look at yourself in the mirror, you take just a second to look at yourself and say, "I make people happy". Thank you for everything.
I cannot *fathom* why they don't have a full, multipicture gallery of every commended/etc. entry for every year.
Having a massive backlog of gorgeous art to display on their website, showing the best of their products, the diversity and variety of their hobbyists and creators is...just...madness. That would be SUCH an asset for marketing!
Not just a marketing standpoint, But a respect to the artists that carry their hobby and inspire a large group of us to buy and paint there miniatures! it's a shame... To be clear Participation trophies are super lame. But having your hard work showcased to the broader audience. absolutely without a doubt should be happening... NEVER trust the judges!
You're awesome man, Keep doing you! @Vince Venturella
Must just be time. I imagine it would take a heap of time and effort to photograph all the entries to a decent level, rather than just the one shot from the one angle.
I agree with you, they should pump out the pics for months. But it would just be time and money preventing them
Having a small photobooth setup to snapshot each piece as they turn in there pieces and paying a couple people to do it is more then affordable for GW and easily plausible.@@firesotormlizard01
I especially don't understand it as the costs to do such photos and the costs of putting them on a website would probably be nothing compared to the costs of the event.
I won't go to an event just to see the Golden Demon submissions thus I will never have a chance to see what actually happens there - so for who is GW even bother doing such an event? They don't take full advantage of it, they don't give the artists taking part in it neither exposure nor feedback and we fans also don't see the actual exceptional and inspiring work that was displayed there. So much is wasted from these events it makes no sense when it actually could be improved with such a minor additional investment.
I totally agree, they literally sell paint, they'd sell more of that too, and more models to paint with different/custom chapters. Also they could have a field and recognize category entries by hours committed (Tabletop Ready/Parade/Display) and give customers realistic expectations, and also an idea of what's possible and how it was achieved with the artists story.
Very interesting and good points, can't disagree with anything said. The flaw-seeking approach is truly a moloch - it's like judging a book by the typos and grammar instead of the overall story. In the UK 2022 we didn't see the judges either, which is a bummer, because I wanted some feedback, but couldn't get it. Thanks for the video!
Thank you sir, hope you're doing well brother. :)
Nova was my first competition last year, and going out of it I felt nothing but excitement about getting started with my piece for this year. This competition did so well to show me what I was doing well while challenging me to improve.
I’ve been very happy to recommend Nova to friends as a way to try out competition painting and challenge themselves to improve. Thank you for your part in that, Vince
That is awesome!
You're not the only painter that I've seen express these issues this year. I love your content on TH-cam, and my favorite videos of yours are the ones you're passionate about. I can't wait to see more of that content and I'm excited to watch and join in with models and projects that you really enjoy.
Thank you for your thoughts on the competition. I've heard similar comments from a few people, but not with as much explanation and thought as to how it could be better. There are SO many amazing pieces in that competition every time.
I'm not sure I'll ever get to the point I want to do a competition, but I know that many of those rules would definitely leave me feeling a bit down on the whole thing.
All that said, it's great to see you so pumped for what comes next, and I know we're all excited to see it come to the channel!
Kahas vehicle entry blew me away literally blew my mind…her entries literally re-inspired me to get better at painting and concentrate on finding my own style rather than trying to paint like someone else
I love hearing about what you want out of a contest and I was really happy to see the part of the video we're you were encouraging the young painter and how you were doing it (on their eye level). Thanks for being the hobby hero this community needs.
Wish there was a trophy for your contribution to the hobby and community, if so you'd take home the Slayer Sword.
Thank you for helping us all better enjoy the hobby and becoming better painters with each HC video.
Also glad you are doing what you love. Hopefully more work like your amazing collaboration with creature caster. Ninjon had similar thoughts, maybe you can create a better competition.
This should be a pinned comment!
Thank you for writing this so i dont have to.
OH NO......... They'd have to create a brand new trophy........" The Mage's Hand,"
The great Trovarian Miniatures released a video recently on his own thoughts with competitive miniature painting. It makes a great companion video to this.
Hi mum!
Trovarions video was indeed awesome. Watched both that and the full stream.
@@trovarion Love all your videos. They always inspire me in my own painting.
@@VinceVenturella supporting everyone, even watching stuff he already saw a second time, just to get the watchtime in on both ❤
@@tonylusardi5767 thanks bud!
Great video, thanks. It's amazing how in the last few months so many content creators I admire have done a "ok, not just GW anymore" video.
It’s a rare person who can look at their Hobby and be brutally honest with themselves when something isn’t right. Kudos to you for stepping away from something that doesn’t “spark joy”, really looking forward seeing where your path takes you moving forward.
A lack of transparency and consistency in a competition undermines its validity. Your models were amazing btw, thanks for making your videos - they have been inspirational and instructive in helping me to develop my skills. Thank you and I can't wait to see what you will be doing!
Love love your openness about such an event your honesty does not go unnoticed!!!! Keep up your amazing work and teaching I have learned so much watching you and some of the other creators hope our views and continue s views help you understand that your channel and add ins do make a difference in the community!!! Thx homie
I appreciate that!
I almost shed a tear when I look at Alexandre Dos Santos' piece. I want to see the back of that cloak sooooo much. Apparently it's done in a Mongolia/Japanese/Chinese type style.
I really thought his and Andy Wardle's Glutos were the best pieces but pictures only tell us 40% of the reality of these pieces of art.
I'm happy for you that this is your last one and you're at peace with that. You offer so much more than having a GD on your shelf. You're a teacher to many of us and you've kept us in the hobby and allowed us to progress and keep it going. A big thank you.
That was an amazing miniature! I took a bunch of pics of that one! The detail on the cloak was just unbelievable!
Check out his instagram for shots of the cloak… it’s worth it!
@@spilbobaggins I just looked now. Amazing. I'm even more surprised that it didn't get gold.
The one thing about them not showing more pictures or not showing other peoples pieces seems like a way to stop criticism against their decisions on who won gold etc.
I entered my first comp a month or two back in Melb, and if I hadn't had the chance to talk to the three judges afterwards, and they hadn't been so generous with their time and thoughtful feedback, I would of walked away to never enter another again. But instead I know how I need to improve and am excited to see what I can do for next year.
Thanks for these thoughts, great video
Vince my man ❤
This was one of the best hobby videos I’ve watched. Good for you for having the courage to say this. We are having a debate/revolt in the scale modeling world right now between 1,2,3 judging vs. Gold, Silver Bronze judging where each model is judged against itself and whether it makes a standard. Love to hear this
I can’t be the only one who’s seeing this as a win for Vince and for the community. That’s hundreds of hours he gets to spend on passion projects which he will, in his ever generous way, share with us.
Love you Vince!
It's remarkable how your feedback of the Golden Demon procedure goes hand in hand with the feedback of other fellow youtubers like Ninjon.
Please always keep in mind that your work in the miniature painting world goes way beyond the Golden Demon trophy. Your work was one of my main drivers to start painting miniatures again after a 25 year hiatus 3 years ago. To me you are one of the (if not _the_) main tutors to learn from. Your work ethos has a huge impact on my work and how to set up realistic expectations to myself. Your videos help me on countless occasions to push my skill to the next level because you have the gift of explaining complicated painting patterns in easy to understand words.
My worst painting competition experience was at LVO 2022. Largely for the same reasons, transparency and consistency. I reviewed the event rules beforehand, chose my category with care, and when I was bewildered at the end, I asked for my score (the rubric provided gave scoring information). The organizer/head judge said they didn't use that system at all. No numerical scores. No weights like stated in the rubric. My disappointment was more to do with feeling like I was lied to than with not winning. It crushed my spirit, if I'm being honest. I put myself way out there to even enter, thinking I understood what to expect. As I said, it was the worst miniature painting event experience of my life. It made me want to quit trying.
Glad to see you doing what's doing what feels best for you and I'm happy to hear how excited you are for the future. Getting to see all the entries in person was inspiring, pictures can't do them justice!
Glad that you gave us your honest feedback on the competition as a whole. You are a great teacher.
I try :)
As a pure spectator of such competition, I am always thrilled to see beautiful minis (even though I rely more on creators themselves on IG and youtube rather than GW own website…) but if the actual process and contest suck so much, I fully understand why one would stop participating ! As long as we still see your work here on this channel, it’s fine :-)
My only issue with Golden Demon now - is I feel like the main categories are dominated by professional painters. It feels if you aren't a professional commission painter, there's no point entering if you want to win - you're just such a huge underdog.
Well. Yeah. That’s how competition works - the best ones win…..
You are one the people that have inspired and made other people wanna improve their painting, their hobbying as very very few others.
You are a literal hobby hero for so many of us. Sad that you did not enjoy it but you did take the knowledge you needed ir from it as you said. It’s just isn’t for you and that’s completely fine.
Can’t wait more of your painting tutorials and learn even more stuff !
Roman: Well, said, Vince!
Their loss & our gain! Looking forward to all that you are now free to explore and enjoy. And yes, as so many others have said, as always, love your passion and sincerity. Thanks for all the joy, knowledge, and wisdom you bring to us. Keep calm and keep on painting minis!!!
I was lucky to have Alex paint Jaghatai for me. I agree. A 360 degree photo would have shown the incredible work on the cape.
You are a wonderful teacher. One of the best on TH-cam.
Vince you are a true hero of the hobby and a personal inspiration of mine. Keep doing whatever it is you want to do and with the channel and we'll be here, watching.
Watching your vids I mean. That last part could sound ominous.
Thanks, will do!
I think the feedback loop in competitions is super important. You can't grow unless someone tells you what you could do differently, or better, or what made them select/not select you to win or place.
One of the coolest things I've noticed since coming back into the hobby after about ten years away from it is that the hobby as a whole has progressed and the overall level of excellence is, well, excellent. It's great being in a friend group where everyone has stuff they can be proud of and you're excited and impressed by everyone's style. I've painted models light years beyond what I did when I was a teenager, and I get to see and draw inspiration from a bunch of other people executing their own interesting styles and techniques similarly well.
I'd love to see a contest that's a celebration of the community's excellence as a whole, because the level of excellence is outstanding.
As far as contributing to that, a friend was asking for resources on painting techniques, and you were the first one linked.
Was worried for a second, thinking you felt defeated. So glad you recognize your own value and humbly remark on what is the true reason your done with GD. Want to say your banelash has been a huge inspiration for my custom emperors children I hope one day to share with you
The legend grows as you and Jon have enticed me back into the hobby after decades since I was painting Grenadier leads with enamel. Your Hobby Cheating library is worth more than any amount of Golden Demon awards.
Sad to hear we won’t see your work at GD going forward, but totally understand where you’re coming from. In general, st least for me, painting specifically for competition just isn’t fun, or at least diminishes it. I was lucky to pick up a silver last year for a piece a really enjoyed doing an had no notion of competing with. On the other hand, the piece I tailored to GD and really pushed with was a chore towards the end. I learnt to just paint what you love and have passion for, good things will come.
Your true love of the hobby shines thru in each one of your videos, and this is no exception. I agree with all your points which you explain clearly and with equanimity……and I will hope that GW listens to your suggestions and implants them. In the meantime, I will find contests that encourage everyone by measuring the entries against a given level of expertise and that encourage judges to provide comments and feedback to the entrants. I have found those 2 processes to be the best positive approaches for what I want in a contest. I hope you’ll be feeling better soon - and thanks again for your insights and suggestions. Looking forward to your upcoming videos!
Ivan here. Thanks for the kind words, and the advice and support I got working on that knight. The sweat and tears turned out to be worth it and I'm very proud.
I feel the same way about many things you said. The incentives laid by top-3-or-nothing, plus the focus on pedantry, lead to imagination and bravery being punished unless they're executed to 11/10 levels. That doesn't feel right to me. As an observer, I want to see and enjoy imagination and bravery on display, and see it rewarded, not nitpick over imperfect blends or brushstrokes. Vince knows this, but while working on that knight, I originally wanted to do more, tell slightly different stories with additional elements, but no. It was the wrong choice for this competition. I needed to enter a knight that does knight stuff, painted like a knight would be, stay in the lane as far as color choices go; and so I did just that, turned up to 11 on execution and attention to detail.
I don't know how to be part of the solution. Participating in smaller competitions, bringing attention to them, is a necessary step for sure. But I like my warhammers, and many of the smaller competitions (at least at Adepticon) are also company or IP locked. I hope Monte, Nova and others get more prestigious than GD (I'd argue Monte is already at a higher painting standard) and I wish there were a painter's choice competition at Adepticon that's not tied to a brand or style.
I know all the choices you made weren't your original vision, but your piece was absolutely exceptional and you earned that win my friend. Just stellar work and you should be proud for sure.
I found your channel 4 years ago, one year into my hobby return and the amount of Motivation and fun in learning you provide is just incredible, you definitely won my golden teacher competition my man, love your take on this and big shoutout to All your students and painters out there, Grab that brush and go AT it ❤
At the end, golden demon is marketing event disguised as painting competition organized by a giant gaming company. And it feels that the root cause.
At unrelated, do you think it would be better if those “meta” comment be separated from other hobby cheating video ?
This kind of video do not age so well compare since the subject is fixed in time. So it feels strange
Vince the level of emotional intelligence you routinely display is amazing. You have been my guide over the hobby journey for nearly a decade. Your ability of self analysis is something I really look up to. Feel better man. We have more steps ahead of us.
A very mature and insightful argument. Thanks. I agree that painting should be a wholesome and uplifting experience.
Thanks for sharing, especially regarding the apparent flaws in judging.
When one door closes, another opens. I'm glad you found a positive result from a negative situation. Thank you for helping us to elevate our craft, and our fun! :)
You are welcome :)
Benjamin, in Trovarion's stream, said, that GW staff broke of part of Sanguinis wing :/
Anyway, here's to Golden Vincecon 2024!
Hi Vince. I'm actually happy you are choosing this path. I consider that you are a person who tries to shine light around him, and this seems like a very coherent choice. I wish you the best with your steps on the path of the miniature art. I know I'll be watching.
As our hobby grows and evolves, I find myself "judging" pieces by originality and artistry more and more. While critique is healthy, art should never be agressively competitive.
What stands out doesn't necessarily have to be technically consistent if it stands out in a compelling way!
Art is always going to be competitive if you're talking commercial or competition formats. Outside of those, it's exactly as competitive as you want it to be, as you are the only judge.
There's not really any way to change that.
@@realname8362 "Art is always gonna be competitive if you're talking competitions" is a rather redundant tautological answer friend. Pretty sure that's the exactly the point :)
Thank you for you Honesty and everything you said. Thank you for the privileged of being on your Patreon!! Don’t know if I will ever paint for a GW store competition. My store experience was horrible. I received no feedback and there was no showing of why the winners won and how the final scores were tabulated. I believe it is the corporate intervention system. Your feedback to me has always been helpful and positive. Thank you!!
Great video and recap. Ninjon also mentioned that GW didn't even know who would judge the contest until a few days before. This also shows GW's disrespect towards the painters. This is not a knock on the actual judges but had GW at least flown over 3 people from their Eavy Metal team to judge that would have shown they cared about consistency and transparency for the US GD. What do you think?
They've shown it simply is not a priority anymore.
They have some bad policies which I didn't want to really comment on that is also limiting the usage of the judges yes. It's a shame.
I've learned plenty of techniques from you on non-GW models. I'm here to see you paint, and would prefer you enjoy it as well. I think most of us feed off that passion. Wherever you go, I'm here for it, brudda!
Thank you for this, Vince. It made me feel much better about Golden Demon
This was my first Adepticon and first Golden Demon. I spent 116 hours on my main entry.
I was expecting being able to get feedback.
The Golden Demon was the only low part of Adepticon.
It was so bad for me that I don't want to be a Games Workshop customer anymore.
I will try to get back to Adepticon next year. I might try my hand at resin beast.
Vince, your channel is more important than ANY contest ever could be. Fine Art competitions are absolutely brutal. One open show my work was rejected and the reason the judge gave it "didn't fit in with the "feel" of the show". These things are always arbitrary. What I love about your channel is your ability to demonstrate technique and inspire others to do their best work. What could be more important ? You are a treasure sir and everything else pales in comparison to the work you do right here.
All valid feelings and I fully agree. GD is feeling so disconnected from the community that actively supports them.
I really appreciated your feedback from Resin Beast!
Absolutely! Your piece was great - can't wait to see what you do next year!
Absolutely! Discovering and developing your unique artistic style can be a heavy but rewarding journey. It often involves exploring different techniques, influences, and mediums while also reflecting on personal experiences and emotions. Embracing your individuality as an artist can lead to powerful expressions of creativity. What kind of art are you interested in, or what styles do you find yourself drawn to? when learn that not try golden demon style to try to win, know that you have your own style.
Honest and open opinion mate, I think you hit the nail on the head too!
These are incredible, I don't even know how you'd even begin to paint something like these, just jaw dropping.
If the creator of the Sundae Knight with a cherry on top is reading this… you are a rockstar and I am your fellow battle brother for life! 😊😊😊😊😊😊
Their name is Fiver and you can find their TH-cam channel Sugar Candy Miniatures
@@joshbecka6110 awesome thanks Josh!
Hahaha thanks that's me 🎉 didn't know i had a battle brother out there
Where can I see a picture of this miniature?
I think that it's great that you are doing what brings you the most joy and I really look forward to learning more from you in the future.
I am so glad you put out this video Vince, it has helped me so much. recently I attended a competition and felt that I got overlooked with my minatures even though I spent months converting and painting. But due to the style which I choose to paint in which is grimdark I feel I got overlooked, I have been down for a while about it. But with this video it has made me think, I paint to make me happy rather then others and I should focus on that, rather then pleasing others (please don't get me wrong, many loved my stuff and I have won many a prize and I love all those that support my style) But this video has made me really give myself a big up and help me get back my hobby mojo. Thank you so much and I happy to see you still want to carry on with the brush yourself! keep going your a true inspiration
Nicely said Vince. Looking forward to seeing more of your wonderful work. Would love to see a behind the scenes of you judging at another painting Competition.
Get better soon Vince. That Banelash was amazing, the judges need they're eyes checked.
I can’t even start to understand how you feel about all of this. I was painting last night and was frustrated with my progress from the smallest things. You’re an amazing person and painter, I take great joy knowing I learned a lot from you although sucking at it 😢
The last time I followed the Golden Demon competition (and frankly, even cared) was back in the mid to late 1990s. Back then, there were numerous categories, with lots of variety of entries, and many winners.
I think that's the way to go.
Hey Vince, It was a absolute Amazing thing to get to meet you and Jon at Adepticon this year. Both of you are big inspirations to me in the hobby. Thank you for taking the time to geek out with a , admittedly, very over-hyped fan.
To your point about Contests and certain styles of contests. I am a Military Armor Modeler ( as well Minis and NASA work) and found that I too was not enjoying building entries for contests. Building and painting to someone elses standard sucked all the joy from the project. Its been many years since I have entered a contest for anything. I do this for relaxation, for the joy of creation, for the rush when I improve . Not for the accolades. There are those that do, and I applaud their efforts. Like you , that mode is not for me.
Thank you for giving voice to a concern some of us have been feeling.
Carry on sir. I will be watching .
You do have a point Vince. GD could be a lot better. Although I fear that since it's becoming more popular from year to year nothing will change to the better. Irrelevant question, where did you get your case? Would love to get one!
Tablewar, great cases.
@@VinceVenturella thanks for the info 🙏 keep motivating us buddy 🤘
Quite the speech, Vince, thanks for sharing - I understand where you're coming from. Both the process and the contest have to be fun, regardless of whether you win or not. I'm thrilled with the Commendeds I've managed to win at top shows, but the main reasons to attend are to have fun, and to learn, and be energised.
Booo GW. Hopefully they can let go of the old guard someday... They broke Ninjon's model, (among others) too.
Great video!
I'm very excited to see the next step in the channel with other brands and scales. I'm always here for the knowledge and not for the GW stuff.
I generally enjoy your positive outlook and all you have done for the hobby, but honestly this comes off as really really bitter. Could they do a better job, sure but had you won, would this be the same video?
What part of this comes across as bitter? He's giving genuine constructive criticism from a place of lifelong experience.
@@Zazuzozu if he wins, is he making this video? The answer I think is unequivocally no. Not saying his criticism isn't valid, I just don't like the dilution idea. Three winners is what makes it prestigious. The competition is way harder now, and thats going to push people harder or push them away.
@@brianfutrelle5676 He has won golden demons before. He has also lost, at a lot of golden demon events. This is the first time he is making a video like this, and generally seems to be echoing the sentiment of a lot of painters, that GW treated this event with a complete lack of respect for the participants. His points are all very valid, constructive, and none boil down to 'I'm sad I lost'. Even some of the winners are pretty unhappy with how they handled the event (i.e., they broke Ben Kantor's gold diorama).
They didn't even know who was judging the competition until on the day, and as far as I'm aware, none of them were professional painters. That should really say enough imo.
I would have made the video yes. This has been something on my mind for a while. None of this had to do with me winning or losing (as I certainly tried to make clear), but with the process, the way the contest is handled and so on. If I benefitted from what I see as a broken process, I would have been no more pleased. You can choose to believe me or not. I am not asking for them to change to open, as I said, they can structure their competition however they like and it's good to have different kinds of competitions. But things like transparency, consistency and respect are non-negotiables for me.
So many amazing pieces. I can only dream of participating, never mind winning any kind of recognition at all. Have so much work to do to get better. Thank you for sharing, your own pieces were bloody awesome!
I was at the GD in Essen and can only confirm your thoughts, I feel really bad for people not even getting a mention on the warhammer-community page. I feel really bad for the painters. They are the stars of the show.
Thank you for this very frank assessment of the issues with the Golden Demon in 2023. I was a guest on Trapped Under Plastic a little over a year ago and spoke on this topic. I feel like the top three, winner-take-all competition is an anachronism in today’s hobby. So much more can be gained by using the Open system and recognizing excellent work at multiple levels of achievement for so many more modelers. I agree with your reasoning in this video and support your decision not to participate in the future. There are many more shows you can participate in and have a far better experience.
Hey Vince! I ran into you at the Mini Hobby Events competition at Gen Con last year, which was super cool!
I think that competition is the standard for me as far as mini painting growth is concerned.
Thanks for the video! This was a great watch!
I'll always be on your side... I recently got back into painting miniatures and you tutorial videos, along with other have helped me to find the joy I once had.... Keep it up... All you stuff to me deserves a Golden Desmond award.... Sometimes it's the small flaws that make a piece special anyway special
As always your insight is appreciated Vince. It really inspires me to finally start entering painting competitions. Time to take a stab at Capital Palette!
Also wanted to shout out how thrilled I am that hometown hero Oscar Lars placed silver with his Necromunda diorama!
Vince, I pinged you about some of these subjects about a year ago. Specifically on grading, feedback, etc. This video is fantastic. I feel so many of us idolize being a Golden Demon winner, but the subjectivity and lack of engagement are really disappointing to hear, and you alluded to this before. Given how many hours and dollars people are spending to craft these masterpieces, transport them from around the world, and fly in to participate, some structured transparency is just a sign of respect to you and the other artists.
Such a contrast in views of the competition compared to other artists and content creators. Well articulated and delivered Vince. Great video
Very well thought out commentary. Looking forward to seeing what pieces your quest for more fun in the hobby brings to the channel :)
Vince, you definitely inspire me, I always enjoy your work and have learned so much from you through TH-cam! Seems like you've had a bit of a revelation through this experience and you've grown through the process... definitely a winning situation in my eyes. Unfortunately I wasn't able to make it to Adepticon this year so I didn't get to see any of the pieces up close so your thoughts on them needing to add more pictures and recognize more people is spot on! It would be nice to enjoy them vicariously through some photos... it wouldn't have been that hard to add more of them for sure. Thanks for sharing!
I entered a piece at adepticon this year almost for the sole purpose of getting feedback on what was done well and what needed work, from professional judges. I was so disappointed when I got my model back and was told nothing, and had no written critique. Literally handed it back and said better luck next time. Your points are spot on.
I hope you're feeling better, Vince. Really good video. I'm not in the same realm of skill as you (I've won some LSG RTT best painted's), but your words ring true. If you're going to paint for hours and hours, it needs to be a good feeling. Capping off the experience with dismissal isn't healthy for anyone. Hopefully, GW hears that and considers where they fit in the hobby community as a company. If not, well, at least the community takes care of its own. Keep painting, Vince. Your channel is A+ and you're an inspiration. Your Eldar video with the orange and teal scheme still sticks in my head. Can't wait for the upcoming videos and how you view "breaking the rules."
The feedback point is so valid. I put pics of a mini on a Facebook page that you reviewed, and the feedback still sticks with me. My TMM are better now than they were before. I look back at metalics I painted before that feedback and I'm so tempted to strip the entire mini and redo, it's hard to resist. Thank you for your feedback!
Great video, and thank you for your great advocacy for the hobby and for promoting great artists who don't always get the recognition they deserve.
It's a privilege to be a part of the community and support the amazing talent.
All of the models you showed at the end were so incredible, and that Horus diorama made me gasp out loud!! Wow. Unreal talent here. Totally understand your decision not to continue with GD, and thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's got to be about what brings us joy!
I was all ready to call sour grapes on your vid after a min or so, but after watching it fully, I couldn’t agree more. I stopped painting years ago here in Australia for different reasons, but the way it was run back then sounds like it hasn’t changed much . There used to be entrants that would put down others work when it was in the cases purely to try and influence the judges, and other pieces which were obviously head and shoulders above the rest were cut or barely placed. The Australian demon judges in Sydney tended to bias the locals heavily, and I flew up from Melbourne. I loved the actual competition though and used the real judging, by other competitors as inspiration to try new techniques and different styles. This was all pre internet though when the biggest rush was seeing your mini in white dwarf. Seems like it was and still is a universal fault with their judging, because every other mini competition was like you said, very transparent. Love your work and OMG the quality of the art is insane now, it’s a whole other level.
Excited to see what’s next on your journey. Cheers.
You are the best teacher in general there is on youtube. Your videos have opened my eyes to many things. I can say with absolute certainty you make many people happy just by sharing your knowledge. Golden Demon Level is by and large uninteresting for many of us. I'm glad you're doing what makes you happy again. Stay as you are.
Mr. Venturella, to be honst ,... You are the reason, why I Improved my painting skills, ( my absolute favorite ,the Crimson Fist in oils ) you clearly elevated my painting life.
Thanks to you I got deeper in to oils and found James Wappel and so on ,... Im in a state, where no single Golden Demon would bring me.
I mean their judgings arent anything worth, to me ,and as long as there are human beeings who will judge , it will always be the overall "Dictatorship of Art" anyways.
I dont need to be a good painter or do I have a clue about it ,I can always have my opinion,but Golden Demon is a Lottery.
Keep up the good work and take more people on a happy painter journey !
This video really helps Vince. I feel that we collectively give GD the value that it has and the emotional echo that comes off the community is that of stress, negativity, and the creative constraint of painting for a single purpose rather than within the endless avenues that art can offer. I didn’t get a chance to meet you at Adepticon but I hope you will judge my miniatures next year!
Just listening to you and your reasons for why and what you are doing earned you a subscription. I am going to check out your back catalogue, you are an inspirational man, Vincent. Thank you!
Welcome aboard! Glda to have you on the hobby journey.
Welcome to the club of "only painting what I'm inspired to do because its fun". I look forward to seeing you painting stuff for competitions that inspire you in the coming year(s) and recognising more amazing painters that are out there that are not constrained by the GW mentality!
(Also someone needs to tell Sam, that actual scientists say we use 100% of our brain, "scientists" might say otherwise of course.)
Vince, you totally nailed it buddy! I used to be all in when it came to model painting contests and about 5 years ago I had the same revelation. I kept finding myself painting more and more thinking of what the judges would look for instead of what I wanted to do. This took away the fun out of the hobby to the point where it was actually stressful because I did not wanted to make mistakes. I think the big problem is that painting models is an art, and when you run a competition (especially with only 1,2 & 3 places) is that you need to turn sumething suggestive into someting objective and mechanical. Thats why they resort to finding “flaws”. And in the process of hair splitting, there is no room to account for things like style, which makes it boring and unfair. I am glad you are going down this path. Thrust me you wont regret it.
You're making some great points as always Vince.
Pouring that much effort into something, burning out the passion for the project, to not even get any feedback would be infuriating. I felt the same after painting a GUO for an online comp near the end of the year, to not even hear anything for weeks after the pic were sent.
It put me off painting for a few months (though I picked up the bass guitar more), and only just got back into it after reading Chris's The Art of Painting.
If what you're doing is sucking the joy out of something you love, don't do it.
Always do it your way regardless of acolades!
Seems crazy they don't make GD yearly book of all the pics
This video inspired me to pick up a brush again. Lets remember how to just have fun