For anyone reeling at Vince's plan to display paint 40 clan rats (as well as the rest of the skaven) and wondering how he could find the motivation to suffer through that? I need to mind you that Vince has previously stated that he is "addicted to painting" and, as such, is immune to motivational fatigue when it comes to painting skaven in particular. Vince is THRIVING right now.
Dream on, dreeeeaaaaam on. But for real: that is what they should do, at least for the rules part and publish the books as collector items with Röhre lore etc
@bastiandeininger6654 Its not really a dream its just gw wants it all. A greedy ass company we all know and ots why we all bootleg stuff all the time and their answer is usually just complaining instead of innovating to accomodate.
Hell yes I'd happily pay monthly to access all the core and army rules, up to date and in a single place. Right now, wahapedia is a far superior service than any resource on offer by GW, even if you disregard the fact that waha is completely free of charge
Not to be that guy, but Para Bellum's Conquest app and rules access has really soured my feeling about AoS. The app is such a joy to use for exploring different factions and for list building. It dynamically updates unit profiles based off of upgrades you give. It supports match play, narrative play, and tournaments. And it is all free.
Any other app out there, from Warmachine, over Infinity and Malifaux to also Conquest and other games is an honest to god embarrassment to what GW thinks is acceptable to not just release, but also charge money for. It is annoying how GWs ineptitude to release a good app, keeps feeding the attitude of people that apps are bad for miniature gaming. :/
I think it's business smart that they've included the GHB and Spearhead starter kit in the Skaventide box: it makes it a much higher value proposition but also means more people will buy a box for themselves rather than just take half the models. I'm splitting with a SC player but as we both want the GHB and Spearhead bits, we're getting 2 boxes and exchanging the relevant models. You never know when you need 80 clanrats...
Help me understand why priests are better than wizards? Yes you can unleash prayer and stock up points, but you can also unleash spell and just have two spells? How is taking a turn off to power up strictly better than casting two spells? Not to mention the miscast chance is 1/36 versus 1/6 to fail a prayer and lose ritual points?
Sure, happy to help. So it's about the -1. The chance you actually cast the spell with the -1 becomes really low, it's a big change in the success rate, especially when a lot of spells are on 6-7 base, so moving to 7-8 when there are few bonuses to cast anywhere means you are likely throwing points away (its not always bad, I am speaking to the average case). However, with the praryers, not only does it not matter if you fail (as you just bank the points), but you are also building up to their second tier effects, which are often VERY powerful. So by spending those points off turn with a wizard, you get a chance to maybe get a spell, but you stand something like a 40-60% chance of getting nothing. When you chant off turn, you have a 84% chance of getting something, likely pushing you toward your power up prayer and big effect.
For a future list of technical corner cases, combat both requiring 3" range and visibility, and both of those factors being model to unit, means you can have a situation where models from one unit can fight but some or no models from the other unit can not. Like if all modes are in range but behind a tall wall, one model has a very tall spear that every model in the other unit can see, now that spear guy can fight and all models in the other unit can fight. Could even be that the model with spear is further away than 3", but visibile, while other models in it's unit are within 3" but not visibile, now one side has both visibility and range and and can fight 'through the wall', but the other side has no models that can fight.
Or you can play it sensibly, and just make it realistic. I know that wargames like these are supposed to be played “rules as written”, but that usually ends up in situations where a sanity check needs to be applied. Good observation though! +1 to you sir.
@@Svedsken Yeah...for me it means certain terrain isn't good for the game, if using it leads to very weird situations. So a wall in this game should probably be more than 3" thick (effectively) so units don't fight through it.
I'm really looking forward to this addition, I left 18 months ago because the battle tatics killed it for me being overly conditional. How do you bridge the gap of skill level, I found playing 3rd I auto lost post deployment, stormcast deepstricking fulminators into infranty with the extra damage from galletian rules, no way of screening without costing the opportunity to score VPs. It felt the game came down to who won the priority roll. To the first question of bridging the gap, I guess practice is key, although when you lose so badly, you dont really learn anything, such a negative gaming experience.
I feel like the Underdog mechanice can be fixed with "if you ever chose a double turn you forfeit the underdog bonus for the rest of the game." but honestly just remove it entirely.
49:00 The crew over at Season of War demonstrated the power of taking an early double and guaranteeing underdog for the rest of the game essentially. It’s quite powerful indeed and I’m guessing will see plenty of use in early 4e.
I've said it already, but I'll repeat here: how long before the Underdog mechanic becomes "whoever has >5 VPs fewer than the other player" or something? August? September?
Thks for sharing your insights Vince. Disappointed that taking the double turn ends up giving one the underdog advantage... which results in taking the double turn being quite viable ... Hmmm wonder for tournament plays, will the loss of VPs matter given tie breakers? A few will be going 4-1 record .. etc
2:13:49 Vince I respectfully disagree, there's nothing in the rules that explicitly says Magical Intervention (MI) and Unbinding usage should be treated dissimilar to other abilities, regardless of the former being a command nor the latter being a reaction. Both MI and Unbinding sport failure conditions - MI says you can use a spell or prayer ability as appropriate. If you exceed the number of Unbinds you have available per your unit's power level, while you are able to keep doing it because it explicitly states it violates The Rules of One, it fails in that it has no effect. Just like you can fail to use a spell, prayer or banish ability if the unit in question exceeds the number determines by their power level per phase. If I am using MI, then I am using a spell or prayer ability, and spell or prayer abilities have fail conditions based around power level. If MI has fail conditions for using abilities that have fail conditions based on power level, then the fail conditions of those abilities are fail conditions for MI. Assuming the player using MI is not violating 1.2 "Using Commands" of the COMMAND Module, there is nothing that additionally states the usage of MI command is a different manner than usage of one or more abilities. If the usage of Unbind as a reaction, which is still an ability, is irrespective on the usage of one or more abilities used per phase, then its usage exclusion is only defined for violating The Rules of One, not additionally for 1.1 & 4.0 of the MAGIC Module. Would love to happily be proven wrong, it's just I don't understand the take that just because a set contains different elements, but those elements aren't introduced in the same paragraph, so that means those staggeredly introduced elements don't follow the rules of other elements in their set, unless explicitly defined that they do.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I was saying they are separate pools. You still can't attempt to unbind a single spell more than once. What am I missing here?
@@PrussianWarfare If you are wizzard (2) you can use 2 unbinds AND 2 between CAST, BANISH or SUMMON. Unbind e the other 3 are two different pools. If you cast twice you can't banish or summon, but you can still unbind twice.
I would love to read the rules in details while we wait for the warscroll but they are not yet available unfortunately so all I can do is learn from videos like yours and other content creators who have early access!
I'm wondering if the manifestations count as units for the Guarded Hero rule if they are in combat range of a hero. Anyone that can shed some light onto this? I'm finding hard to fully understand when an endless spell is not considered a unit
Love the fact that Vince was arguing against Tom in 04242024 that Underdog was fine and that no one would try to game it. Insights summary sheet where it says Underdog is often too easy and too good should have had a "Tom was Right" in brackets after it :)
Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere but at the end of movement phase if i deepstrike with a unit does my opponent get to redeploy after my deepstrike? Since im active player and my abilities need to be finished before my opponent. Would love to have an answer to this. Great content like always!
Yes, you use all of your abilities, then they use theirs. So they are using redeploy after you use all of our things. There is no "End of the movement phase" anymore. It's just an ability in your movement phase.
Vince passives can stack? We had this debate on all out defense with say finest hour. 5.3 clears this up - passives with the ‘same name’ can’t stack. Let me know if we’ve missed something if poss thanks for a great show as per
Yes, to a point. Same name can't stack, and you can never have more than one Ward save for example, but you could have a passive 5+ ward AND a passive +1 to wound or something. That works.
Thank you for putting this together. Some of these will surely trip me up. But being forewarned should help. I think locking warscrolls behind Warhammer+ would not be the worst way to do it. The worst way would be locking warscrolls behind each indidvidual battletome. That said, I really hope all warscrolls stay free on the app forever.
I played Skaven when I started my hobby jurny in the 90s. And now when I came back I went to 40K but it looks like i need to dust off my old screaming Bell and Doom Weel 🐀
So in my opponents turn I use heroic magic action to cast Jaws 9" away and at the end of their move i can use redeploy as it can use movement actions or counter charge ? that would give me some ability to mess with no enemy near by tactics , though id expect the spell to be charged.
@@VinceVenturella thanks for the clarification , realised they don't count as units for command abilities. Can't wait to start playing and getting me halflings done. Love the channel great content , really inspiring ; my 10 yr old is wanting to make display boards galore .
So here's my question. Is a weapon ability part of the attack sequence? Does adding a weapon ability (specifically bash'em ladz) to weapons count as effecting the attack sequence?
Hang on, so you pay 2 CP for Countercharge and then pay 1 more CP to reroll that charge? Or do the rules stop the same unit from receiving 2 CAs in the same phase?
It's looking like 4th edition works in a way that is much more in line with how my brain works! Even the whole who is doing the action thing seems intuitive to me. Appreciate that not everyone's brain works the same way - I basically sat 3rd ed out as I found it too much. This feels, on first impression, more natural to me
One large change from 3rd to 4th that I think people are overlooking. Plus 1 to charge is pretty hard to find where it used to be everybody with a musical instrument giving +1 to charge.
Are we sure this idea of "you can choose to deploy your units in a regiment individually or as the regiment" is true? I don't see that written in the rules. I just see that it says a unit uses a deploy ability. If you have a regiment, the units in that regiment all have to deploy in sequence without alternating with your opponent. I don't see it specifically written that you can choose to deploy units in a regiment as single deployments. I just think it's explaining how the deploy ability works as a core mechanic, as it would work for auxiliary units or a single unit by itself in its own regiment. Unless I'm missing something, I think this is a mistake.
Yes, when you deploy, you can use either Deploy ability. The regular Deploy unit does not prohibit the unit from being in a regiment (just the other way around). So yep, you can pick a unit from a regiment and use the basic deploy, but then you are locked into dropping that regiment one unit at a time.
@@VinceVenturella but my question is where does it say that. It doesn't explicitly say that's how it's done. The deploy regiment ability does not actually give any deployment instructions. It doesn't say "set up this unit wholly in your territory, outside of 9" etc etc" It's a source link back to how the basic deploy ability works. So unless you're saying this officially from GW they've already clarified with you personally that this is the case, I don't see it written that you have the choice.
@@markpandelidis2079 The DEPLOY REGIMENT says to pick a regiment with no units already deployed -> use than DEPLOY abilities without alternating till all units in the regiment are deployed. DEPLOY is a keyword. What does have that keyword? DEPLOY UNIT. What does it says? Pick a unit that hasn't been deployed and set it up ww friendly territory and more than 9" from enemy. It has been deployed. DEPLOY REGIMENT makes you use a DEPLOY UNIT for each unit in that regiment before your opponent is on. What isn't clear about it?
Mom and dad expressed sufficient interest in AoS that we ended up playing a Spearhead match with unprimed minis, it ended up in a tie...I think I've created a monster because they want to play every weekend 😂😂😂😂😂
I'm worried about the state of this channel ... between 4.0 & new Skaven I'm worried we won't get the most critical Warhammer News ... Book VI storytime and finally find out what the spear does*. *For 3 more weeks. 😉💖
The answer is Yes, but it doesn't actually do anything. Redeploy let's you move d6 inches. At the Double lets you add 6" to your move characteristic instead of making a Run Roll. Hence, At the Double does not affect Redeploy, as Redeploy doesn't utilize your Move Characteristic.
Awesome video guys Love providing real commentary on what the game will be like. Vince your channel continues to be my favorite Warhammer channel across both games.. Couple of questions though would love to get your thoughts on, do you see the reduction in shooting damage (and magic damage) to be the nail in the coffin for pure shooting/magic damage armies? As a DOT eternal conflag player I'm in shambles here, Lost my allies which were all my front line, Lost my MVB, Lost hero Spam not hurting me tons, and shooting is nerfed. Really unsure how many points I'll be able to put on the table now when I used to have 2K and if those will be able to do anything. Secondly, with the changes to a more rock paper scissors style, do you see it as being an even larger disadvantage than in third to be a very slow army? I'm just thinking of my nurgle army which was very slow and prodding even for nurgle, focused on clogging the board up with plaguebearers which I spread out to body block, buffed up, and then just nuked with lots of magic / disease damage. Can't spread my plaguebearers out anymore, disease does little damage vs before, and I'm slow so my enemy is going to have the ability to set up who charges who. Anyways I'm still really looking forward to this edition I'm just trying to think about these two forces and how they will adapt. Likewise sylvaneth and the tiny area that your terrain covers that can be killed. My STD I'm not concerned about it all lol.
I can't really talk about individual armies, I will simply say no I don't think that will be the case generally. As to the slow army question, no I don't see it as really having changed, maybe slightly improved as most armies are slightly slower.
Cover the underdog mechanic potentially being busted a bit more I apparently overlooked this in the articles and had far too hastily (after seeing you can't do a BT if you double) judged double turns as neutered Expand on how they interact with the underdog mechanic more --- it seems like you take a temporary risk to not score well for a turn for an overall higher payout in the end (in addition to smashing your opponent's army to dust)
Would much rather double turns reduce your CP by 2 and give the other person 2 extra CP. Would give the player getting doubled agency to fight back using whatever CAs are most relevant to them, and the player taking the double will be extremely limited in what CAs they can use
I am hyped for the edition overall, but I am also deeply worried about the double turn... I fear that it's way WAY to strong now, not just due to the underdog mechanic, but also with the increase in combat range and weakening of shooting going twice will be even more devastating, especially for melee heavy armies that are reasonably fast. The double turn was never my favorite mechanic, but I never outright hated it either. I'm afraid I may now outright hate the mechanic.
One thing that drives me nuts about how GW formats their rules and books in general - the ordering makes no sense to me. That bit about who is using an ability should really be waaaay up front in the rules. That's really a core concept essential to everything. You kinda need it to frame all of the rules
They really didn't just give WAAAGH! once per battle (army)? I get how its technically unnecessary, but it would've made it way easier to parse for new or casual players
More specifically, giving your opponent an extra cp every round (and also what auxiliaries do to your number of drops) is way too big a cost to ever consider bringing any
It seems like through trying to "elucidate" the behavior legalistically they have managed to "obfuscate" the "commander's intent" of behaviors they want to happen. Very "method of the how." Six levels down "however! Level Seven!"
Vince I think you're wrong on auxiliaries, broken units will be found before the broken abilities are scaled down/turned to once per army per turn. Lists will want to play them and 1cp isn't a big deal, which you confirmed as you don't think people will be aiming to get 50pts under 2k to get an extra cp on turn 1.
Consider 2 different units you could take, Immagine one of those is strong but gives +1 Armor Save each round to your opponent. How stronger than the other must be for you to settle on that one even if it buffs your enemy? I don't think there people will take auxuliaries or win much more if they do.
The app thing is the worst. I have 2-4 lists and cant imagine how theory crafters feel. Such a low act to knickle and dime a sub. Ill be hard passing. For a work around find a better app to read saved stuff in. Then each time you create a list just use the save to clipboard feature and store. Done👍
This looks like this edition is just going to be "Showing PowerPoints to people who are wrong: The Game" and I am absolutely out. How often can I do this and how much damage does my stuff do are not questions that a sober person should be able to get wrong.
Sigmar bless you Vince, I saw you in the background of that GW propaganda video "the community speaks" (yeah the community who is in the bag) but unlike all those shills that were coopt'd by GW you were there and didn't front up to blow sunshine up GW's dress. Thank ye gods we have a unbiased reviewer like you Vince.
i'm at the 52 min timer and i don't want to play to 4.0 because of the incentive to go low drop and own the game. And the underdog being here and benefit the most skilled player
I'm excited for the core rules, but judging from the faction articles they still balance them by throwing darts at a wall. And I hate this abstract progressive scoring that feels like armies are chasing victory coins that are just randomly showering down from the sky, not fighting for any tangible tactical or strategic benefit.
@@cyriltournier Theoretically some small portion comes to me, but they insert so many stupid ads, I hate it and can't stop it, so I have to go in the next morning and delete them all. It's no issue.
Why bother with 4.0 when in three years youll have 5.0, and in six years time 6.0 and so on? Also GW sells you different editions and "games" but theyre always the same d6 bore 😂
Congrats in advance on your second best painted Skaven army in the world, Vince.
I've seen what you've painted so far, I'm not worried.
@@VinceVenturella if the rat from HC455 is any indication, you better start getting worried.
Vince on the 40,000 foot metaphor: "Am I so out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong"
You did it Horus Lupercal, you are the warhammer 40,000 foot view
Ah finally some discussion of how the new edition actually plays. So much other coverage of these rules is very superficial. Thanks Vince and Brendan!
Vince putting six hours per rat is dedication to the great horned rat for sure. When he’s done, he’ll have the best army of 5th edition! Haha
For anyone reeling at Vince's plan to display paint 40 clan rats (as well as the rest of the skaven) and wondering how he could find the motivation to suffer through that?
I need to mind you that Vince has previously stated that he is "addicted to painting" and, as such, is immune to motivational fatigue when it comes to painting skaven in particular. Vince is THRIVING right now.
I'd pay for Warhammer+ if it included digital access to all the army books
Dream on, dreeeeaaaaam on. But for real: that is what they should do, at least for the rules part and publish the books as collector items with Röhre lore etc
@bastiandeininger6654 Its not really a dream its just gw wants it all. A greedy ass company we all know and ots why we all bootleg stuff all the time and their answer is usually just complaining instead of innovating to accomodate.
Hell yes I'd happily pay monthly to access all the core and army rules, up to date and in a single place.
Right now, wahapedia is a far superior service than any resource on offer by GW, even if you disregard the fact that waha is completely free of charge
"There are no universal abilities" *turns page* UNIVERSAL TERRAIN ABILITIES 🤣.
Show was great as always guys, keep it up.
Also : move, banish, charge etc… and commands 😁. But we all new what he meant ❤
@@Kazerole haha yes absolutely, I just thought the timing was amusing
@@PrinceMcGiggle Warhammer Weekly is just special that way 😄
Not to be that guy, but Para Bellum's Conquest app and rules access has really soured my feeling about AoS. The app is such a joy to use for exploring different factions and for list building. It dynamically updates unit profiles based off of upgrades you give. It supports match play, narrative play, and tournaments. And it is all free.
Same for Warmachine.
Soured? As in the really good rules app made you feel worse about the game?
@@deifiedtitan it means seeing other, smaller games doing it better is annoying
Yeah this has been my thought since they debuted their updated 40k app. Infinity, Malifaux, Conquest and many more offer better apps for Free 🤦♂️
Any other app out there, from Warmachine, over Infinity and Malifaux to also Conquest and other games is an honest to god embarrassment to what GW thinks is acceptable to not just release, but also charge money for.
It is annoying how GWs ineptitude to release a good app, keeps feeding the attitude of people that apps are bad for miniature gaming. :/
I think it's business smart that they've included the GHB and Spearhead starter kit in the Skaventide box: it makes it a much higher value proposition but also means more people will buy a box for themselves rather than just take half the models.
I'm splitting with a SC player but as we both want the GHB and Spearhead bits, we're getting 2 boxes and exchanging the relevant models.
You never know when you need 80 clanrats...
Or 2 of those weird SCE heroes 😅
@@Kazerole that's the advantage of taking the Skaven half, as it's only really the clawlord you wouldn't have a case for taking more than one!
Help me understand why priests are better than wizards? Yes you can unleash prayer and stock up points, but you can also unleash spell and just have two spells? How is taking a turn off to power up strictly better than casting two spells? Not to mention the miscast chance is 1/36 versus 1/6 to fail a prayer and lose ritual points?
Sure, happy to help. So it's about the -1. The chance you actually cast the spell with the -1 becomes really low, it's a big change in the success rate, especially when a lot of spells are on 6-7 base, so moving to 7-8 when there are few bonuses to cast anywhere means you are likely throwing points away (its not always bad, I am speaking to the average case). However, with the praryers, not only does it not matter if you fail (as you just bank the points), but you are also building up to their second tier effects, which are often VERY powerful. So by spending those points off turn with a wizard, you get a chance to maybe get a spell, but you stand something like a 40-60% chance of getting nothing. When you chant off turn, you have a 84% chance of getting something, likely pushing you toward your power up prayer and big effect.
@@VinceVenturella very well put, thank you for the response. That makes a lot more sense now
@@red-undead-plays6525 I don't think it was taken into account but spells can be unbuind, priests can't .
Honestly the way 40K does it is stupid, I should be able to read my opponents units stats without having to buy things I will never play
1:27:20 "You can pile in, but you can never leave."
I hit the like button and was able to finish painting my 4th spearhead 😊
“40k foot view” definition:
Like the 10k foot view, but leaving enough extra room to declare exterminatus…
Are there any rules or guidance for open or narrative play in the new rules or is it all matched play?
There is Path to Glory in the new rules and will be supported in the books.
I'm completely with you Vince: edge highlight clanrats or go home
Nothing better to go with my morning coffee. Good job guys!
that must be one massive cup of coffee to last you close to 3 hours
@@envaya9838 Came to say this. Who has 3h for a morning coffee?! 😅😮
We agree!
@@evil_nessie Working from home this morning with loads of coffee and this running.
Sameo ☕️
Best rules breakdown and discussion out there.
Brendan as regular cohost to expand the great (but busy) plethora of WHW cohosts, please 👌🏾
For a future list of technical corner cases, combat both requiring 3" range and visibility, and both of those factors being model to unit, means you can have a situation where models from one unit can fight but some or no models from the other unit can not. Like if all modes are in range but behind a tall wall, one model has a very tall spear that every model in the other unit can see, now that spear guy can fight and all models in the other unit can fight. Could even be that the model with spear is further away than 3", but visibile, while other models in it's unit are within 3" but not visibile, now one side has both visibility and range and and can fight 'through the wall', but the other side has no models that can fight.
Or you can play it sensibly, and just make it realistic. I know that wargames like these are supposed to be played “rules as written”, but that usually ends up in situations where a sanity check needs to be applied. Good observation though! +1 to you sir.
@@Svedsken Yeah...for me it means certain terrain isn't good for the game, if using it leads to very weird situations. So a wall in this game should probably be more than 3" thick (effectively) so units don't fight through it.
Great show to listen to as I paint up my FEC for 4.0.
Also, isn’t Vince just going to use the other half to make a Ratcast Eternals?
Covering fire has the SHOOT keyword so I'm pretty sure you cant redeploy and covering fire unless you have run and shoot
You are correct, sorry about that
Now I’m double confused. What about the SHOOT keyword stops you from using Redeploy and Covering Fire?
@@brentnelson8137 rules say you can't use shoot after run abilities. Same as you can't charge after run.
Individually painting each rat in a skaven army is wiiiiiiiild. Can’t wait to see what that looks like when its done
I'm really looking forward to this addition, I left 18 months ago because the battle tatics killed it for me being overly conditional. How do you bridge the gap of skill level, I found playing 3rd I auto lost post deployment, stormcast deepstricking fulminators into infranty with the extra damage from galletian rules, no way of screening without costing the opportunity to score VPs. It felt the game came down to who won the priority roll. To the first question of bridging the gap, I guess practice is key, although when you lose so badly, you dont really learn anything, such a negative gaming experience.
I feel like the Underdog mechanice can be fixed with "if you ever chose a double turn you forfeit the underdog bonus for the rest of the game." but honestly just remove it entirely.
49:00 The crew over at Season of War demonstrated the power of taking an early double and guaranteeing underdog for the rest of the game essentially. It’s quite powerful indeed and I’m guessing will see plenty of use in early 4e.
Absolutely
The best explanation of the rules so far. Very well executed Vince. Thanks for it.
I've said it already, but I'll repeat here: how long before the Underdog mechanic becomes "whoever has >5 VPs fewer than the other player" or something? August? September?
Thks for sharing your insights Vince. Disappointed that taking the double turn ends up giving one the underdog advantage... which results in taking the double turn being quite viable ... Hmmm wonder for tournament plays, will the loss of VPs matter given tie breakers? A few will be going 4-1 record .. etc
2:13:49 Vince I respectfully disagree, there's nothing in the rules that explicitly says Magical Intervention (MI) and Unbinding usage should be treated dissimilar to other abilities, regardless of the former being a command nor the latter being a reaction.
Both MI and Unbinding sport failure conditions - MI says you can use a spell or prayer ability as appropriate. If you exceed the number of Unbinds you have available per your unit's power level, while you are able to keep doing it because it explicitly states it violates The Rules of One, it fails in that it has no effect. Just like you can fail to use a spell, prayer or banish ability if the unit in question exceeds the number determines by their power level per phase. If I am using MI, then I am using a spell or prayer ability, and spell or prayer abilities have fail conditions based around power level. If MI has fail conditions for using abilities that have fail conditions based on power level, then the fail conditions of those abilities are fail conditions for MI.
Assuming the player using MI is not violating 1.2 "Using Commands" of the COMMAND Module, there is nothing that additionally states the usage of MI command is a different manner than usage of one or more abilities. If the usage of Unbind as a reaction, which is still an ability, is irrespective on the usage of one or more abilities used per phase, then its usage exclusion is only defined for violating The Rules of One, not additionally for 1.1 & 4.0 of the MAGIC Module.
Would love to happily be proven wrong, it's just I don't understand the take that just because a set contains different elements, but those elements aren't introduced in the same paragraph, so that means those staggeredly introduced elements don't follow the rules of other elements in their set, unless explicitly defined that they do.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. I was saying they are separate pools. You still can't attempt to unbind a single spell more than once. What am I missing here?
@@VinceVenturellaI don't understand what you mean by separate pools. If you wouldn't mind explaining that to me, I can better clarify on my end
@@PrussianWarfare If you are wizzard (2) you can use 2 unbinds AND 2 between CAST, BANISH or SUMMON. Unbind e the other 3 are two different pools. If you cast twice you can't banish or summon, but you can still unbind twice.
Thanks a lot Vince, now instead of Noble Deeds all my ghouls will gain Schmoogie Boogie points
I would love to read the rules in details while we wait for the warscroll but they are not yet available unfortunately so all I can do is learn from videos like yours and other content creators who have early access!
Hi Vince just wondering if you can spend ritual points earned on one prayer, in the next turn on a different prayer? Thank you
Yes you can!
Wow, Priest (2) is wild
I'm wondering if the manifestations count as units for the Guarded Hero rule if they are in combat range of a hero. Anyone that can shed some light onto this? I'm finding hard to fully understand when an endless spell is not considered a unit
Love the fact that Vince was arguing against Tom in 04242024 that Underdog was fine and that no one would try to game it. Insights summary sheet where it says Underdog is often too easy and too good should have had a "Tom was Right" in brackets after it :)
Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere but at the end of movement phase if i deepstrike with a unit does my opponent get to redeploy after my deepstrike? Since im active player and my abilities need to be finished before my opponent. Would love to have an answer to this. Great content like always!
Yes, you use all of your abilities, then they use theirs. So they are using redeploy after you use all of our things. There is no "End of the movement phase" anymore. It's just an ability in your movement phase.
Vince passives can stack? We had this debate on all out defense with say finest hour. 5.3 clears this up - passives with the ‘same name’ can’t stack. Let me know if we’ve missed something if poss thanks for a great show as per
Yes, to a point. Same name can't stack, and you can never have more than one Ward save for example, but you could have a passive 5+ ward AND a passive +1 to wound or something. That works.
I tried to find the 1.1.2 thing for underdog bonus but the book I is underspending not outnumbered
Thank you for putting this together. Some of these will surely trip me up. But being forewarned should help.
I think locking warscrolls behind Warhammer+ would not be the worst way to do it. The worst way would be locking warscrolls behind each indidvidual battletome. That said, I really hope all warscrolls stay free on the app forever.
I played Skaven when I started my hobby jurny in the 90s. And now when I came back I went to 40K but it looks like i need to dust off my old screaming Bell and Doom Weel 🐀
So in my opponents turn I use heroic magic action to cast Jaws 9" away and at the end of their move i can use redeploy as it can use movement actions or counter charge ? that would give me some ability to mess with no enemy near by tactics , though id expect the spell to be charged.
No, for a few reasons. 1) Manifestations can't use commands so no redeploy or countercharge. 2) remember, they have to be set-up 9" away
@@VinceVenturella thanks for the clarification , realised they don't count as units for command abilities. Can't wait to start playing and getting me halflings done. Love the channel great content , really inspiring ; my 10 yr old is wanting to make display boards galore .
So here's my question. Is a weapon ability part of the attack sequence? Does adding a weapon ability (specifically bash'em ladz) to weapons count as effecting the attack sequence?
Bash Em Ladz effects the attack sequence (giving Crit 2 hits), so it can't work on companions.
@@VinceVenturella Lame 😣
Hang on, so you pay 2 CP for Countercharge and then pay 1 more CP to reroll that charge? Or do the rules stop the same unit from receiving 2 CAs in the same phase?
Yeah, you can't reroll, too many commands
It's looking like 4th edition works in a way that is much more in line with how my brain works! Even the whole who is doing the action thing seems intuitive to me. Appreciate that not everyone's brain works the same way - I basically sat 3rd ed out as I found it too much. This feels, on first impression, more natural to me
One large change from 3rd to 4th that I think people are overlooking. Plus 1 to charge is pretty hard to find where it used to be everybody with a musical instrument giving +1 to charge.
Are we sure this idea of "you can choose to deploy your units in a regiment individually or as the regiment" is true? I don't see that written in the rules.
I just see that it says a unit uses a deploy ability. If you have a regiment, the units in that regiment all have to deploy in sequence without alternating with your opponent. I don't see it specifically written that you can choose to deploy units in a regiment as single deployments. I just think it's explaining how the deploy ability works as a core mechanic, as it would work for auxiliary units or a single unit by itself in its own regiment. Unless I'm missing something, I think this is a mistake.
You couldn't deploy the whole regiment if a single part of it has already been deployed.
@@afairy what you said means nothing. That's not what I said.
Yes, when you deploy, you can use either Deploy ability. The regular Deploy unit does not prohibit the unit from being in a regiment (just the other way around). So yep, you can pick a unit from a regiment and use the basic deploy, but then you are locked into dropping that regiment one unit at a time.
@@VinceVenturella but my question is where does it say that. It doesn't explicitly say that's how it's done. The deploy regiment ability does not actually give any deployment instructions. It doesn't say "set up this unit wholly in your territory, outside of 9" etc etc"
It's a source link back to how the basic deploy ability works. So unless you're saying this officially from GW they've already clarified with you personally that this is the case, I don't see it written that you have the choice.
@@markpandelidis2079 The DEPLOY REGIMENT says to pick a regiment with no units already deployed -> use than DEPLOY abilities without alternating till all units in the regiment are deployed.
DEPLOY is a keyword. What does have that keyword? DEPLOY UNIT. What does it says?
Pick a unit that hasn't been deployed and set it up ww friendly territory and more than 9" from enemy. It has been deployed.
DEPLOY REGIMENT makes you use a DEPLOY UNIT for each unit in that regiment before your opponent is on.
What isn't clear about it?
Skaven #4...out of 400
When you manestfest a predatory endless spell, can it move in the same turn?
It cannot, no model that is set-up can move in the same turn.
Thanks for the insights and discussion! I was waiting for your thoughts on the core rules before looking at all the leaks and content. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Love listening to these while painting!
Mom and dad expressed sufficient interest in AoS that we ended up playing a Spearhead match with unprimed minis, it ended up in a tie...I think I've created a monster because they want to play every weekend 😂😂😂😂😂
I'm worried about the state of this channel ... between 4.0 & new Skaven I'm worried we won't get the most critical Warhammer News ... Book VI storytime and finally find out what the spear does*.
*For 3 more weeks. 😉💖
Great clarifications on some sticky points. Can't wait until the Indexes drop.
Can you use At the Double on a Redeploy because it's a RUN ability?
Yeah with khorns Murderlust 9" save move in Combat for 1 bloodpoint and 2 commandpoints?
I Ask for a Friend
The answer is Yes, but it doesn't actually do anything. Redeploy let's you move d6 inches. At the Double lets you add 6" to your move characteristic instead of making a Run Roll. Hence, At the Double does not affect Redeploy, as Redeploy doesn't utilize your Move Characteristic.
Would you pay for warhammer+ if it included all the army books in the app?
Sure, that would be worth it
Awesome video guys Love providing real commentary on what the game will be like. Vince your channel continues to be my favorite Warhammer channel across both games..
Couple of questions though would love to get your thoughts on, do you see the reduction in shooting damage (and magic damage) to be the nail in the coffin for pure shooting/magic damage armies? As a DOT eternal conflag player I'm in shambles here, Lost my allies which were all my front line, Lost my MVB, Lost hero Spam not hurting me tons, and shooting is nerfed. Really unsure how many points I'll be able to put on the table now when I used to have 2K and if those will be able to do anything.
Secondly, with the changes to a more rock paper scissors style, do you see it as being an even larger disadvantage than in third to be a very slow army? I'm just thinking of my nurgle army which was very slow and prodding even for nurgle, focused on clogging the board up with plaguebearers which I spread out to body block, buffed up, and then just nuked with lots of magic / disease damage. Can't spread my plaguebearers out anymore, disease does little damage vs before, and I'm slow so my enemy is going to have the ability to set up who charges who.
Anyways I'm still really looking forward to this edition I'm just trying to think about these two forces and how they will adapt. Likewise sylvaneth and the tiny area that your terrain covers that can be killed. My STD I'm not concerned about it all lol.
I can't really talk about individual armies, I will simply say no I don't think that will be the case generally. As to the slow army question, no I don't see it as really having changed, maybe slightly improved as most armies are slightly slower.
I haven’t been as hyped for anything warhammer since GW released Betrayal at Calth and the Horus Heresy Red Books. Let’s go.
Cover the underdog mechanic potentially being busted a bit more
I apparently overlooked this in the articles and had far too hastily (after seeing you can't do a BT if you double) judged double turns as neutered
Expand on how they interact with the underdog mechanic more --- it seems like you take a temporary risk to not score well for a turn for an overall higher payout in the end (in addition to smashing your opponent's army to dust)
Would much rather double turns reduce your CP by 2 and give the other person 2 extra CP. Would give the player getting doubled agency to fight back using whatever CAs are most relevant to them, and the player taking the double will be extremely limited in what CAs they can use
Is there a way to see your completed rats Vince?
I'll share them out on my socials.
After I liked this video the neighbourhood badger stopped snarling at me
I am hyped for the edition overall, but I am also deeply worried about the double turn... I fear that it's way WAY to strong now, not just due to the underdog mechanic, but also with the increase in combat range and weakening of shooting going twice will be even more devastating, especially for melee heavy armies that are reasonably fast. The double turn was never my favorite mechanic, but I never outright hated it either. I'm afraid I may now outright hate the mechanic.
Ouuu use Power Through if you think you will go first in the next battle round SO you can move and charge... I LIke it
One thing that drives me nuts about how GW formats their rules and books in general - the ordering makes no sense to me. That bit about who is using an ability should really be waaaay up front in the rules. That's really a core concept essential to everything. You kinda need it to frame all of the rules
Do we know yet what the Ironjawz Spearhead will be?
Not yet.
@@VinceVenturella thank you! But we do know there is one?
@@bryanpierce5000 THere is not one now, I expect it will release when the book comes out.
@@VinceVenturella thanks for your insights!
I’m just here to hit like and eat breakfast.
Jon Favreau plays Warhammer and is guest on Warhammer Weeky? Thanks yall for the excellent overview
Is Warhammer+ still illegal in Canada? That's a lot of WH creators and players that can't use the app.
I believe that is still an issue.
They really didn't just give WAAAGH! once per battle (army)? I get how its technically unnecessary, but it would've made it way easier to parse for new or casual players
Can someone explain that thing with auxiliary units? I didn't get it
I am saying you will never use them, there is no reason.
More specifically, giving your opponent an extra cp every round (and also what auxiliaries do to your number of drops) is way too big a cost to ever consider bringing any
Great episode and walkthrough with breakdown Gents!
Thank you sir! Hope you're doing well.
can't wait for chaos dwarves to release that use smogey bogey token and spells truly will be a shift in the lore 😂
1:19:36 move “-“ manifestations can’t be shot then?
They can be shot, because they can be targeted by enemy abilities at any time.
Are praying points shared in a pool between all the priest's?
No, it's that priest carrying the points.
It seems like through trying to "elucidate" the behavior legalistically they have managed to "obfuscate" the "commander's intent" of behaviors they want to happen. Very "method of the how."
Six levels down "however! Level Seven!"
Now that is some wonderful corporate speech.
Vince I think you're wrong on auxiliaries, broken units will be found before the broken abilities are scaled down/turned to once per army per turn.
Lists will want to play them and 1cp isn't a big deal, which you confirmed as you don't think people will be aiming to get 50pts under 2k to get an extra cp on turn 1.
I don't think I am wrong and I have good reason to think I am right. But I guess time will tell.
Consider 2 different units you could take, Immagine one of those is strong but gives +1 Armor Save each round to your opponent. How stronger than the other must be for you to settle on that one even if it buffs your enemy?
I don't think there people will take auxuliaries or win much more if they do.
The app thing is the worst. I have 2-4 lists and cant imagine how theory crafters feel. Such a low act to knickle and dime a sub. Ill be hard passing.
For a work around find a better app to read saved stuff in. Then each time you create a list just use the save to clipboard feature and store. Done👍
Very good video. Thanks!
Please say "Schmoogie Boogie" one more time. ;)
Spearhead will teach melee armies are king, too easy to charge across the entire board.
This looks like this edition is just going to be "Showing PowerPoints to people who are wrong: The Game" and I am absolutely out. How often can I do this and how much damage does my stuff do are not questions that a sober person should be able to get wrong.
We're highlighting the challenge spots, but I will say, overall, this actually hasn't been much of a challenge, the games have been quite smooth.
Give us a 5 command point ability.
I don't think Vince was dramatic enough about playing video games instead of painting before 4.0. Still not convinced. Sorry.
Sigmar bless you Vince, I saw you in the background of that GW propaganda video "the community speaks" (yeah the community who is in the bag) but unlike all those shills that were coopt'd by GW you were there and didn't front up to blow sunshine up GW's dress. Thank ye gods we have a unbiased reviewer like you Vince.
4.0 LFGO!
GITMOB!!!! 🤘🐺🤘
Fml an ad every 7mins is too much 🤬
Yes, TH-cam is insane, I have deleted all of those extra ads, they do it automatically and I have to manually delete them.
@VinceVenturella thanks vince! There was eithet no or minimal ads. Hope you guys still can get decent revenue
i'm at the 52 min timer and i don't want to play to 4.0 because of the incentive to go low drop and own the game. And the underdog being here and benefit the most skilled player
I think its okay, honestly, in the end, I still have tremendous fun, but its a shame on those items
Need to see a time lapse of Vince working on new Skaven as last week's giant cheese wheel gets smaller and smaller
I'm excited for the core rules, but judging from the faction articles they still balance them by throwing darts at a wall. And I hate this abstract progressive scoring that feels like armies are chasing victory coins that are just randomly showering down from the sky, not fighting for any tangible tactical or strategic benefit.
Oh no Vince, you vape that shit? 😢
You mean I vape? Yep, it was the only way to stop smoking sadly. :)
Not to expensive, try living Australia
Try living in New Zealand
This is becoming impossible to listen to due to the enormous number of advertisment.
Vince is not deciding how many ads are shown, so the blame goes to Google 👍
@@TheRealThirdME I know. But it is a problem
It is a problem, TH-cam is killing me, I deleted all the extra ads.
@@VinceVenturella I don't mind listening to a few adds if I know it will help the channel. But does it Vince, or is it just going into YT's pocket?
@@cyriltournier Theoretically some small portion comes to me, but they insert so many stupid ads, I hate it and can't stop it, so I have to go in the next morning and delete them all. It's no issue.
Why bother with 4.0 when in three years youll have 5.0, and in six years time 6.0 and so on? Also GW sells you different editions and "games" but theyre always the same d6 bore 😂
The future is only a day away. ;)