Brilliant! Thanks so much for the clear explanations, it's helped me figure out some fundamental mistakes I've been making for years. It would have been awesome to get explanations over the end video examples as what I saw and what the call was didn't always match up 🤔
Thank you sirr for this video it really refresh our mind sometimes we tend to forget the details,great video highly recommend this to all the referees regardless their experience
at 6:06 we have airbone player .the defender white with number 6 has one foot in the space of no charge semicircle.This is a non call situation ? thanks a lot you are the best keep going!!!
This one is a tricky one but it’s a correct charge. Reason being is that his right foot is not in the no charge semi circle area (because it’s outside the semi circle area) and his left foot is out side in front of it. If the no charge line extended to the endline, then it would be a no call :) thanks for the support!!
I love this and the new rules video you guys have posted, but surely, you didn't say at 6:37 that the defender, after establishing Legal Guarding Position, "CAN extend his arms, shoulders, hips or legs to prevent the dribbler passing by them" , you surely meant CAN'T.
@@refereeuniversity There is really no need to apologise, I wasn’t sure if it was my hearing. I’m just so impressed by the videos and have found them immensely helpful. Thank you from the UK
Smart does take the contact in the chest and it is a close call. Stop video at 13:07 and you will see Smart go into Westbrook, defense initiated the contact with their chest resulting in a block.
Smart does take the contact in the chest and it is a close call. Stop video at 13:07 and you will see Smart go into Westbrook, defense initiated the contact with their chest resulting in a block.
I'm hoping that I haven't missed the "different video" mentioned in this video ("The only thing we’re not going to look at in this video is screens, and that’ll be saved for a different video”). I'm interested with how these portions of Article 33 work with each other 33.1 (Cylinder Principle), 33.7 (Legal Screen), 33.8 and 33.15 (charge/pushing). Scenario is: Offence sets a legal screen facing the defender (time/distance not an issue), defender pushes (shoulder charges) into offence with enough force to push the offence back one step. One foot remains in place by the offence screener and he re-establishes a fresh cylinder in front of the defence at a slightly askew angle. Hoping that there is another video of 'screens' in differing forms that I can view because this seems to be the thing that gets such a variety of calls for the same set of circumstances. Love the videos/channel
Yes, since screening requires more clips and explanation I planned on making a video on it. I did take a 1 year break and just recently came back after multiple messages about it. I will add it to the list (2 videos already made and ready to post, I have 2 more being finished slowly then I will do screening). For your scenario, the only player causing illegal contact is the defender. If the official feels that the defense attempting to get through the screen is A) enough contact to warrant a foul and B) would not want to allow that contact in case it leads to rough play or tough game management by allowing that contact, then they would probably call a foul on the defender. If we do not call a defensive foul, chances are the officials would not call a illegal screen on the reposition you mentioned because the defense caused them to do a slight reposition. It all depends on the league/level of play. I have seen screens that were deemed legal at the olympics/international level but not legal for university play in some countries. Hope that helps!
@@refereeuniversity Love your work. You break everything down into simple explanations that seem so logical, like "why couldn't a referee see that." I suppose it's a bit different under the pressure of a fast moving game, but then again they are the ones we look to for guidance on whats right or wrong in the game. Hope you are well
Thank's for this video great work.But one question when draymond green kicked the player against it was a whistled foul for him and then green kicked him for it or not a double foul here?
Great question!The kick would be either A) Disregarded if a natural motion or official deem accidental B) Called an unsportsmanlike or disqualifying foul (Due to it being a dead ball contact situation and/or excessive contact). Due to it being more than a a personal foul, it can not be deemed a double foul. Hope that helps!
Is there any chance of doing a video or video series on 3x3 - particularly with its very different interpretation of charge/block situations? I have read the official 3x3 rules on charge/block and can see no difference in them compared to the 5v5 rules yet when I watch the world tour and Olympics matches the 3x3 referees (who all also ref high level 5v5 ) allow defenders to consistently heavily displace/push (ie block) players driving to the basket. It seems like FIBA have agreed years ago that 3x3 has to be more physical, 90s NBA style, without making it clear in the rules. Anyway thanks for your invaluable FIBA rules explained playlist, especially this video in particular as that's pretty much all we referees use in England!
Thank you! I appreciate that! Yes, 3x3 is different in what they allow but I do not know how long it will stay like that. It used to be way more rough and they have cleaned it up a bit more. I believe they are trying to maintain a balance of flow and physicality. 5v5 you can have a bad quarter for scoring and fouls and still win the game. 3x3 is a game to 21 and every foul matters. If I have time this summer, I will see if I can put a little video together on it.
La FIBA DEBE traducir estos mismos videos para la comunidad latinoamericana de habla español. Esto sería muy útil a la educación del baloncesto. Muchas personas piensan que, sólo leiendo las reglas es suficiente para aprender a jugar o arbitrar. Esto sucede en mi comunidad basketera. Y, quienes saben algo, se aprovechan de la falta de conocimiento, del otro, para convertirse en la máxima estrella de este deporte. Ya que, tampoco, existe educación de esta disciplina por parte de la asociación de baloncesto de nuestro estado (provincia)
the last episode with the girl, what if something similar was done during the box out? Essentially, the defender is in the paint, and the attacking player is running from a 3pt line for a an offensive rebound. The defender quickly turns his back, almost like body checking but with his back, and the offensive player bumps into the denfender (everything is on the ground, not in the air). Is that a foul?
There's much gray area in lateral movement to maintain guarding position, especially when you're defending someone attacking the basket. It relies a lot on the discretion of the referee.
The current consensus is that the defender is allowed a touch but cannot keep the hand there. If they are driving and the defender has an arm bar protecting themselves (in their own cylinder), it probably won't be called (no advantage gained in most cases) but that differs from league to league due to different philosophies. Post defense you are allowed to have an arm on the offensive player as long as it is not extended or pushing the player. I was going to release a video on this but I got really busy. Hopefully this makes sense! Let me know if I need to clarify anything better!
@@refereeuniversity when im playeing myself sometimes i go drive to the basket really quickly but offbalance. The smalller player pushes me of balance and redirects my trajectory away from the straight line to the basket. Is this legal, it happens when im playeing pick up? They do this with their chest mostly but i feel like sometimes they sneak a lil bit of arm in there
@@refereeuniversity goddam thank you! At times it feels like its impossible to get near the rim without using brute force and luck. Thank you very much for the information!
Sorry I did not see this! If defense is vertical and not progressing forward when defending the shot (moving up not forward) then the defense is legal. Cannot penalize defense for maintaining their cylinder and verticality! Hope that answers your question!
Smart does take the contact in the chest and it is a close call. Stop video at 13:07 and you will see Smart go into Westbrook, defense initiated the contact with their chest resulting in a block.
Defense needs to beat them to the spot to take a charge (Pippen) or they have to anticipate and close the separation after the shoulder bump. This move typically does not get called an offensive foul unless overly advantageous.
we have a discussion almost every practice about a very specific scenario Player A is on a sort of Fastbreak situation, nobody is in front of him, but player B is coming from behind and tries to block the ball Player A wipes his guarding hand behind him and it creates a contact with player B so Player A contacts with his arm slightly out of the cylinder, while player B also is coming from behind (no legal guarding position) and infiltrates player A's cylinder whats the right call here?
Definitely a tough decision off of no video, but from the scenario you described, it seems like the offensive player's contact is negligible and can be passed on, defensive player B's contact can be deemed a foul depending on if it affect's player A's movement or contact is enough to put a whistle on. As referee's, we judge if contact needs a whistle and if this scenario was to be a foul, it would most likely on Player B
This video is amazing! Keep up the good work. I have only one question: can the defensive foul at 16:25 count as an unsportsmanlike foul? I don't know the precise rules about unsportsmanlike fouls, but this sure looks like one...
You can call it an unsportsmanlike foul (Due to it being a hip check) but most referees would not because they would deem the contact not excessive enough. Just a defensive foul for bumping the cutter off the ball. I would call a personal foul not unsportsmanlike in my opinion
Hello! I have a question about pushing a opponent with player's back like post-up and box-out. I've seen several times this situation. For example, Kobe's post up, Dennis rodman's box out etc.. They push opponent and displace opponent's position. But I cannot find any legality pushing with player's back. I think it's just pushing foul according to rule book, but my body tell me it's just part of basketball. And question 2, In act of post up, Is it legal to use offender's arm in offender's cylinder? not his elbow. Some push opponent with his one arm bar or shoulder not his back. I'm Happy to ask you a question
Hello! In the NBA, they interpret the rules a little differently due to star players, different athletic abilities, and calling the obvious (Focus on elephants more than mice is the term). Well known defenders/players sometimes get away with more because of their history of being able to defend or score. You cannot displace people in basketball or it usually ends up as a foul. A referee friend of mine used this principle on boxouts, if you go to the opponent for a boxout, you are fine, but if you go through an opponent (like a displacement) we should have a foul. As for offence, they cannot hook to gain an advantage. If they use their off arm and displace an opponent and gain an advantage, they should have a foul.
what about a player in the post defending in a legal guarding position and an offensive player with the ball with their back to the defender is bumping backwards, posting that player up, pushing him backwards with his back or butt? if it hits the defender several times, is that a charge? If it hits the defender in the torso?
I don't get why Pippen's one is a charging foul. It seems like he's not taken the legal position and he's supposed to move laterally, to avoid the the contact when the offensive player changed the dribbling direction.
Pippen took it in the chest, offensive player dropped shoulder outside of cylinder. It's a close call that could go either way but that was most likely the criteria. There is the possibility that Scottie's resume of being a defender could have helped influence the call.
Potential for offensive foul due to being out of their new offensive cylinder rule. If contact is advantageous and places defender at a large disadvantage, you can put a whistle on it. It is usually a play on, but defense should not be penalized for it.
So I theoretically understand the difference between offensive and defensive fouls, as explained in this video. Still, in practice, I find out that most situations that I see as offensive fouls are called blocking instead. I'm talking mostly about under-the-basket situations. Calling a charge seems to be more common in the perimeter. But in the "painted" area, if a defender hasn't established the legal guarding stance way in advance, it is called usually a block. I'm pretty sure that this is me making mistake. But I don't know where I make it. What do referees see that I don't? Or maybe there is favoritism towards an offense to keep the game more entertaining to viewers? I have the impression that in practice players in the offense are allowed to be way more aggressive than in the defense. Anyway, I stay confused about this matter.
This video might help your scenario: th-cam.com/video/l4Ojjp5W0Xc/w-d-xo.html They could be getting called block plays due to the criteria of the no-charge semi-circle.
On last video (with girls) it probably technical, bcoz, if I remember well, u can't touch player when he is off the court. And when was contact girl white step in out, so she was off court.
The player contacted her, which caused her to go out of bounds, technicals are mostly non-contact fouls. Typically, we want players to stay in bounds when plays are ran.
What about the typical call that James Harden gets every time he swipes his arm under the defenders arm to cause the contact? My understanding is that it's not a fault anymore right?
From my understanding and reading of the NBA rule book, they do not talk about cylinder principles in regards to positioning or contact on the floor. They mention forearm and hands contact. So in the many cases of Harden fouls, the defender has an extended arm or forearm which Harden rips through to draw a foul. As much as Harden is initiating the contact, the defender is extended and results in a defensive foul the majority of the time in the NBA. They tend to reward offense way more and title it as freedom of movement. As for FIBA, if the arm is extended out of their defensive cylinder outlined in this video then they can be deemed responsible for the contact. A referee can deem that extended arm gather that Harden does as his natural shooting or gathering motion. However, if the defender is slightly out of his cylinder and Harden throws himself into them or completely extends his arms out of his cylinder to draw a foul, referees probably will not reward him. We tend to look at who is out of their cylinder and who initiated the contact which would be the criteria in making the call. So some Harden plays will be no calls and some will be defensive fouls in FIBA. All depends on what occurred.
Wait, technically, according to this every time someone dunks on someone it's a foul, if their arm extended towards the basket causes contact with a defenders vertically extended arms, or even if they have a heavy lean
Technically yes, but it tends to come down to how much it affects the play. I believe this year a dunk was waved off due to the off arm in an NBA game. Usually highlight plays like that, actions get ignored (off arm)
Great Question! First one, offense goes into defenders line ( defender beats to the spot and offense drops shoulder and goes into the movement line), second video offense goes down a line away from defender, defender creates contact by moving into his line. Basically 1st: offense goes into defender, 2nd defender goes into offense
Great question, not all contact warrants a foul call but Shaq definitely pushed the boundaries of those rules. He should not be able to go through a legal defender but up or down the lane.
Abide or interpretation? This a tough question, because it could be due to not knowing all the rules, it could be by interpretation, it could be not knowing what the written rule looks like in a game. That is the goal of our video resource, to address some of the concerns that led to inconsistency.
@@refereeuniversity And how would basketball improve? As in the rules? You sure ain't asking the players to do that right? The players are there to win, however it is allowed.
@@user-em8fq2ev4b Players learning the rules definitely helps them improved, it is not required to be a great player but if you think of how the game grows, they learn from coaches and other players on what the rules are from gameplay. If they get called for a travel in pickup game, or a coach calls it in practice, they assume those are illegal plays. That's how most players learn and apply it to themselves and the future generation. Which means that if more people know the actual rules or stayed on top of it, a culture changes in how it gets passed to other players. Basically, everyone learns through gameplay, not reading for themselves. More people learning the rules, more people applying them correctly in gameplay, creates improved growth
@@user-em8fq2ev4b Also, there is a good amount of referees that ref how they remember the rules being applied to them. They do not really read the rules which results in inconsistency. Which supports my previous statement
cylinder rule is such shit. what about closeout blocks, or a clean block where you get all ball, even if your hand is slightly forward instead of straight above you. destroying the art of defence
The cylinder is just a foundation to help determine fouls. If I jump up and come out of my cylinder but block the ball, that is a legal play. Going out of your cylinder just gives an opportunity for a foul call. Just like a steal, I can reach out of my cylinder and steal the ball. It just helps the defense where if they are in their cylinder and there is contact with body or hands, they are not illegal and should not be given a foul.
That is unfortunate because the cylinder rule is to aid in not penalizing the defender when they jump straight up regardless of severity of contact. Not to enforce foul calls on people going out of their cylinder because you can do that if are not causing illegal contact on their bodies.
the toughest thing for me on potential block/charge plays is the "no call". When there is significant contact between the two players, everyone in the building is expecting a call one way or the other, but reading the play and determining they're both legal and making no call is hard.
2 years after the release of the video I still use it to refresh myself and teach other refs. Keep up the work
Great to hear!
They obviously don't ref at the Seahawks then, the refs there get it oh so wrong.!
8:49 exactly what I wanted to hear
This is the best video on the topic that I've seen
Brilliant! Thanks so much for the clear explanations, it's helped me figure out some fundamental mistakes I've been making for years. It would have been awesome to get explanations over the end video examples as what I saw and what the call was didn't always match up 🤔
Glad it was helpful! I will keep that in mind in future videos!
Thank you sirr for this video it really refresh our mind sometimes we tend to forget the details,great video highly recommend this to all the referees regardless their experience
Great instructional video (again!!) - Keep em coming!!
at 6:06 we have airbone player .the defender white with number 6 has one foot in the space of no charge semicircle.This is a non call situation ? thanks a lot you are the best keep going!!!
This one is a tricky one but it’s a correct charge. Reason being is that his right foot is not in the no charge semi circle area (because it’s outside the semi circle area) and his left foot is out side in front of it. If the no charge line extended to the endline, then it would be a no call :) thanks for the support!!
This video was very informative and easy to understand. Thank you much.
I wholeheartedly thank you for this video.
Thank u very much for explaining these concepts and helping us understand better.
I love this and the new rules video you guys have posted, but surely, you didn't say at 6:37 that the defender, after establishing Legal Guarding Position, "CAN extend his arms, shoulders, hips or legs to prevent the dribbler passing by them" , you surely meant CAN'T.
I apologize, I did not emphasize the ending of can't. You are completely right, they cannot extend their arms and I meant to say CAN'T. Thank you :)
@@refereeuniversity
There is really no need to apologise, I wasn’t sure if it was my hearing. I’m just so impressed by the videos and have found them immensely helpful. Thank you from the UK
@@thewelshwizard5869 Thank you so much! Happy I can be useful!
Thanks for this video👍
great video!
Totally amazing layout of the rules thanx so much
You are so welcome!
Why is the second foul at 12:54 a blocking foul? Isn't Smart in legal position and moving sidewards and also getting the contact on his torso?
Smart does take the contact in the chest and it is a close call. Stop video at 13:07 and you will see Smart go into Westbrook, defense initiated the contact with their chest resulting in a block.
Why is 12:55 a block? Isnt he moving laterally
Smart does take the contact in the chest and it is a close call. Stop video at 13:07 and you will see Smart go into Westbrook, defense initiated the contact with their chest resulting in a block.
I'm hoping that I haven't missed the "different video" mentioned in this video ("The only thing we’re not going to look at in this video is screens, and that’ll be saved for a different video”).
I'm interested with how these portions of Article 33 work with each other 33.1 (Cylinder Principle), 33.7 (Legal Screen), 33.8 and 33.15 (charge/pushing).
Scenario is: Offence sets a legal screen facing the defender (time/distance not an issue), defender pushes (shoulder charges) into offence with enough force to push the offence back one step. One foot remains in place by the offence screener and he re-establishes a fresh cylinder in front of the defence at a slightly askew angle.
Hoping that there is another video of 'screens' in differing forms that I can view because this seems to be the thing that gets such a variety of calls for the same set of circumstances.
Love the videos/channel
Yes, since screening requires more clips and explanation I planned on making a video on it. I did take a 1 year break and just recently came back after multiple messages about it. I will add it to the list (2 videos already made and ready to post, I have 2 more being finished slowly then I will do screening).
For your scenario, the only player causing illegal contact is the defender. If the official feels that the defense attempting to get through the screen is A) enough contact to warrant a foul and B) would not want to allow that contact in case it leads to rough play or tough game management by allowing that contact, then they would probably call a foul on the defender. If we do not call a defensive foul, chances are the officials would not call a illegal screen on the reposition you mentioned because the defense caused them to do a slight reposition.
It all depends on the league/level of play. I have seen screens that were deemed legal at the olympics/international level but not legal for university play in some countries. Hope that helps!
@@refereeuniversity Love your work.
You break everything down into simple explanations that seem so logical, like "why couldn't a referee see that." I suppose it's a bit different under the pressure of a fast moving game, but then again they are the ones we look to for guidance on whats right or wrong in the game.
Hope you are well
@@Gaze-v1r Thank you, I will do my best to stay on top of adding content :)
Thank's for this video great work.But one question when draymond green kicked the player against it was a whistled foul for him and then green kicked him for it or not a double foul here?
Great question!The kick would be either A) Disregarded if a natural motion or official deem accidental B) Called an unsportsmanlike or disqualifying foul (Due to it being a dead ball contact situation and/or excessive contact). Due to it being more than a a personal foul, it can not be deemed a double foul. Hope that helps!
@@refereeuniversity Thanks for answer.
great job!!!🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥💪
Is there any chance of doing a video or video series on 3x3 - particularly with its very different interpretation of charge/block situations? I have read the official 3x3 rules on charge/block and can see no difference in them compared to the 5v5 rules yet when I watch the world tour and Olympics matches the 3x3 referees (who all also ref high level 5v5 ) allow defenders to consistently heavily displace/push (ie block) players driving to the basket. It seems like FIBA have agreed years ago that 3x3 has to be more physical, 90s NBA style, without making it clear in the rules. Anyway thanks for your invaluable FIBA rules explained playlist, especially this video in particular as that's pretty much all we referees use in England!
Thank you! I appreciate that! Yes, 3x3 is different in what they allow but I do not know how long it will stay like that. It used to be way more rough and they have cleaned it up a bit more. I believe they are trying to maintain a balance of flow and physicality. 5v5 you can have a bad quarter for scoring and fouls and still win the game. 3x3 is a game to 21 and every foul matters. If I have time this summer, I will see if I can put a little video together on it.
great video bud earned yourself a new sub
Awesome! Thanks for subbing!
La FIBA DEBE traducir estos mismos videos para la comunidad latinoamericana de habla español. Esto sería muy útil a la educación del baloncesto. Muchas personas piensan que, sólo leiendo las reglas es suficiente para aprender a jugar o arbitrar. Esto sucede en mi comunidad basketera. Y, quienes saben algo, se aprovechan de la falta de conocimiento, del otro, para convertirse en la máxima estrella de este deporte. Ya que, tampoco, existe educación de esta disciplina por parte de la asociación de baloncesto de nuestro estado (provincia)
the last episode with the girl, what if something similar was done during the box out? Essentially, the defender is in the paint, and the attacking player is running from a 3pt line for a an offensive rebound. The defender quickly turns his back, almost like body checking but with his back, and the offensive player bumps into the denfender (everything is on the ground, not in the air). Is that a foul?
There's much gray area in lateral movement to maintain guarding position, especially when you're defending someone attacking the basket. It relies a lot on the discretion of the referee.
True, they usually look at shoulder to mid of chest and who got to the spot first
At 13:00, I think the call might have gone either way in real life! What was the principle action that elicited ruling it a block? @@refereeuniversity
Same question
4:06 lmfao like he call Draymond like it's his own thing.😂
Great video. What about on-ball defense with minimal hand contact? Also what about post defense, can you place your arm on the offensive player?
The current consensus is that the defender is allowed a touch but cannot keep the hand there. If they are driving and the defender has an arm bar protecting themselves (in their own cylinder), it probably won't be called (no advantage gained in most cases) but that differs from league to league due to different philosophies. Post defense you are allowed to have an arm on the offensive player as long as it is not extended or pushing the player. I was going to release a video on this but I got really busy. Hopefully this makes sense! Let me know if I need to clarify anything better!
@@refereeuniversity when im playeing myself sometimes i go drive to the basket really quickly but offbalance. The smalller player pushes me of balance and redirects my trajectory away from the straight line to the basket. Is this legal, it happens when im playeing pick up? They do this with their chest mostly but i feel like sometimes they sneak a lil bit of arm in there
@@MadaraUchiha-lo7qt If you beat the defender to the spot and they bump you (regardless of size) it is a foul.
@@refereeuniversity goddam thank you! At times it feels like its impossible to get near the rim without using brute force and luck. Thank you very much for the information!
@@MadaraUchiha-lo7qt Of course! No worries!
Can we get a video on how to show the numbers to the table when a player fouls .
I can add it to the list
4:57 So if I go vertical on the corner 3 pointer and my defender goes vertical too but touches my hands with his, is he entering my cylinder?
Sorry I did not see this! If defense is vertical and not progressing forward when defending the shot (moving up not forward) then the defense is legal. Cannot penalize defense for maintaining their cylinder and verticality! Hope that answers your question!
Hi, is there a way I can send you a situation clip and ask some question regarding the cylinder principle?
Email is listed on my description :)
love it! Thank you!!
You are so welcome!
Film session. How is that a blocking foul smart vs Westbrook?
Smart does take the contact in the chest and it is a close call. Stop video at 13:07 and you will see Smart go into Westbrook, defense initiated the contact with their chest resulting in a block.
@@refereeuniversity thank you. This has helped my defense tenfold 🔥🔥🔥
@@refereeuniversity how do you guard people who bump off of you with their shoulder for a stepback or layup?
Defense needs to beat them to the spot to take a charge (Pippen) or they have to anticipate and close the separation after the shoulder bump. This move typically does not get called an offensive foul unless overly advantageous.
we have a discussion almost every practice about a very specific scenario
Player A is on a sort of Fastbreak situation, nobody is in front of him, but player B is coming from behind and tries to block the ball
Player A wipes his guarding hand behind him and it creates a contact with player B
so Player A contacts with his arm slightly out of the cylinder, while player B also is coming from behind (no legal guarding position) and infiltrates player A's cylinder
whats the right call here?
Definitely a tough decision off of no video, but from the scenario you described, it seems like the offensive player's contact is negligible and can be passed on, defensive player B's contact can be deemed a foul depending on if it affect's player A's movement or contact is enough to put a whistle on. As referee's, we judge if contact needs a whistle and if this scenario was to be a foul, it would most likely on Player B
This video is amazing! Keep up the good work.
I have only one question: can the defensive foul at 16:25 count as an unsportsmanlike foul? I don't know the precise rules about unsportsmanlike fouls, but this sure looks like one...
You can call it an unsportsmanlike foul (Due to it being a hip check) but most referees would not because they would deem the contact not excessive enough. Just a defensive foul for bumping the cutter off the ball. I would call a personal foul not unsportsmanlike in my opinion
@@refereeuniversity 👍
amazing video!!
What happens if defender is stationary and takes a charge into the shoulder?
depends on how close to the torso it is. If it's the side of my shoulder, I should not have a charge
What about ball handler uses shoulder or head to create space?
If it extends out of their cylinder, then we should be looking at an offensive foul
Hello!
I have a question about pushing a opponent with player's back like post-up and box-out.
I've seen several times this situation. For example, Kobe's post up, Dennis rodman's box out etc.. They push opponent and displace opponent's position.
But I cannot find any legality pushing with player's back.
I think it's just pushing foul according to rule book, but my body tell me it's just part of basketball.
And question 2,
In act of post up,
Is it legal to use offender's arm in offender's cylinder? not his elbow.
Some push opponent with his one arm bar or shoulder not his back.
I'm Happy to ask you a question
Hello! In the NBA, they interpret the rules a little differently due to star players, different athletic abilities, and calling the obvious (Focus on elephants more than mice is the term). Well known defenders/players sometimes get away with more because of their history of being able to defend or score. You cannot displace people in basketball or it usually ends up as a foul.
A referee friend of mine used this principle on boxouts, if you go to the opponent for a boxout, you are fine, but if you go through an opponent (like a displacement) we should have a foul.
As for offence, they cannot hook to gain an advantage. If they use their off arm and displace an opponent and gain an advantage, they should have a foul.
@@refereeuniversity Thank you
at 15:42 if the number 38 green pushes 13 red is unsportsmanlike foul?
It would have been a C5 UF but now it's a Throw In Foul in that situation
what about a player in the post defending in a legal guarding position and an offensive player with the ball with their back to the defender is bumping backwards, posting that player up, pushing him backwards with his back or butt? if it hits the defender several times, is that a charge? If it hits the defender in the torso?
You could call a charge for displacement, it would be up to the referee's interpretation
People who play basketball should see this!
Thank you :) Feel free to share!
Just wow i am enlighten
I don't get why Pippen's one is a charging foul.
It seems like he's not taken the legal position and he's supposed to move laterally, to avoid the the contact when the offensive player changed the dribbling direction.
Pippen took it in the chest, offensive player dropped shoulder outside of cylinder. It's a close call that could go either way but that was most likely the criteria. There is the possibility that Scottie's resume of being a defender could have helped influence the call.
If you attempt a triple threat move (jabs) between the legs of the depender does it also mean illegal? (Outside the offensive cylinder)
Potential for offensive foul due to being out of their new offensive cylinder rule. If contact is advantageous and places defender at a large disadvantage, you can put a whistle on it. It is usually a play on, but defense should not be penalized for it.
Wait, also, if a big is powerfully backing down and bumping their defender off their spot, is it a foul?
It can be, depends on the league and referee's understanding of cylinder principle
So I theoretically understand the difference between offensive and defensive fouls, as explained in this video. Still, in practice, I find out that most situations that I see as offensive fouls are called blocking instead. I'm talking mostly about under-the-basket situations. Calling a charge seems to be more common in the perimeter. But in the "painted" area, if a defender hasn't established the legal guarding stance way in advance, it is called usually a block. I'm pretty sure that this is me making mistake. But I don't know where I make it. What do referees see that I don't? Or maybe there is favoritism towards an offense to keep the game more entertaining to viewers? I have the impression that in practice players in the offense are allowed to be way more aggressive than in the defense. Anyway, I stay confused about this matter.
This video might help your scenario: th-cam.com/video/l4Ojjp5W0Xc/w-d-xo.html
They could be getting called block plays due to the criteria of the no-charge semi-circle.
dramond green kicked his way out of the cylinder
hey just wondering about the screens video?
Are you requesting a video be done solely on screens?
@@refereeuniversity I think you mentioned that there would be a video on screens. Really keen to see that - see my earlier comment/post
On last video (with girls) it probably technical, bcoz, if I remember well, u can't touch player when he is off the court. And when was contact girl white step in out, so she was off court.
The player contacted her, which caused her to go out of bounds, technicals are mostly non-contact fouls. Typically, we want players to stay in bounds when plays are ran.
Credit for this video and promise I learn a lot sir.😉
What about the typical call that James Harden gets every time he swipes his arm under the defenders arm to cause the contact? My understanding is that it's not a fault anymore right?
From my understanding and reading of the NBA rule book, they do not talk about cylinder principles in regards to positioning or contact on the floor. They mention forearm and hands contact. So in the many cases of Harden fouls, the defender has an extended arm or forearm which Harden rips through to draw a foul. As much as Harden is initiating the contact, the defender is extended and results in a defensive foul the majority of the time in the NBA. They tend to reward offense way more and title it as freedom of movement.
As for FIBA, if the arm is extended out of their defensive cylinder outlined in this video then they can be deemed responsible for the contact. A referee can deem that extended arm gather that Harden does as his natural shooting or gathering motion. However, if the defender is slightly out of his cylinder and Harden throws himself into them or completely extends his arms out of his cylinder to draw a foul, referees probably will not reward him. We tend to look at who is out of their cylinder and who initiated the contact which would be the criteria in making the call. So some Harden plays will be no calls and some will be defensive fouls in FIBA. All depends on what occurred.
Wait, technically, according to this every time someone dunks on someone it's a foul, if their arm extended towards the basket causes contact with a defenders vertically extended arms, or even if they have a heavy lean
Technically yes, but it tends to come down to how much it affects the play. I believe this year a dunk was waved off due to the off arm in an NBA game. Usually highlight plays like that, actions get ignored (off arm)
2:50 honestly, I'd call the defensive player for reaching over first here
good news is with the new cylinder foul call, it would be a defensive foul first :)
I dont see any difference between first charge and the second blocking fault the rest I agree with.
Great Question! First one, offense goes into defenders line ( defender beats to the spot and offense drops shoulder and goes into the movement line), second video offense goes down a line away from defender, defender creates contact by moving into his line. Basically 1st: offense goes into defender, 2nd defender goes into offense
How can Shaq push people if a defensive player maintains a legal defensive position ?
Great question, not all contact warrants a foul call but Shaq definitely pushed the boundaries of those rules. He should not be able to go through a legal defender but up or down the lane.
Niiiiiiice
11:31
legal guarding position video model > pippen 😁
Just call it consistently on both ends.
Btw, under this rules u now can't play old-school double team.
Westbrook on smart looked like a charge to me
Smart did not establish LGP
@@refereeuniversity was it because his feet were still moving and weren't on the ground?
Fiba should translate videos into spañish for latinoamericana basketters.
If I knew Spanish, I would
What is the point of reviewing all of these rules when the officials don't abide by them ??
Abide or interpretation? This a tough question, because it could be due to not knowing all the rules, it could be by interpretation, it could be not knowing what the written rule looks like in a game. That is the goal of our video resource, to address some of the concerns that led to inconsistency.
@@refereeuniversity ...or don't abide because the league is instructing you to call it the way that is advantageous to the league and the owners.
@@78tag Yes, that can be possible depending on the league. It is up to the league and assignor to instruct what to call
No use making sure everyone knows the rules when ref calls are inconsistent...
Refs are not the only people that should learn the rules to create consistency. If basketball as a whole improves, it changes the norm.
@@refereeuniversity And how would basketball improve? As in the rules? You sure ain't asking the players to do that right? The players are there to win, however it is allowed.
@@user-em8fq2ev4b Players learning the rules definitely helps them improved, it is not required to be a great player but if you think of how the game grows, they learn from coaches and other players on what the rules are from gameplay. If they get called for a travel in pickup game, or a coach calls it in practice, they assume those are illegal plays. That's how most players learn and apply it to themselves and the future generation. Which means that if more people know the actual rules or stayed on top of it, a culture changes in how it gets passed to other players. Basically, everyone learns through gameplay, not reading for themselves. More people learning the rules, more people applying them correctly in gameplay, creates improved growth
@@user-em8fq2ev4b Also, there is a good amount of referees that ref how they remember the rules being applied to them. They do not really read the rules which results in inconsistency. Which supports my previous statement
cylinder rule is such shit. what about closeout blocks, or a clean block where you get all ball, even if your hand is slightly forward instead of straight above you. destroying the art of defence
The cylinder is just a foundation to help determine fouls. If I jump up and come out of my cylinder but block the ball, that is a legal play. Going out of your cylinder just gives an opportunity for a foul call. Just like a steal, I can reach out of my cylinder and steal the ball. It just helps the defense where if they are in their cylinder and there is contact with body or hands, they are not illegal and should not be given a foul.
@@refereeuniversity okay so I guess I misunderstood the rule. all the refs in my local league have too though :(
That is unfortunate because the cylinder rule is to aid in not penalizing the defender when they jump straight up regardless of severity of contact. Not to enforce foul calls on people going out of their cylinder because you can do that if are not causing illegal contact on their bodies.
@@refereeuniversity I think they need to go to Referee University!!!
Very spam publicity.
the toughest thing for me on potential block/charge plays is the "no call". When there is significant contact between the two players, everyone in the building is expecting a call one way or the other, but reading the play and determining they're both legal and making no call is hard.
Defintely, especially since no-charge semi circles tend to cause these plays
@@refereeuniversity can i ask the best thing to do in this scenario then.