im amazed by you and DK and others who have a lab of plates and culutures and keep them straight. Gotta have a labeling system in place🎉 always great info from the Grand Scale
@Edward Grand I like these vids! Could you explain (maybe in another video) why in the passage explanation the the outer transfer is older than the one from the middle of the plate?
That is a good point. I thought about that a lot after. Technically the stuff on the edge is 'fresher' and younger as far as cells go. I'm not sure exactly how to say it, but I guess I meant the stuff near the edge is more 'aged' as far as mitotic divisions. So it is 'older' in the sense that the DNA could have changed and 'aged' (senesced???) compared to the inoculation point. I have struggled with this idea and where the best place to subculture is. That is why 'passage' (from the edge) and 'transfer' are not synonymous.
Thanks for the info! I got a question for you, do I really need vent holes in a 54 quart tub growing cubes on grain coir and vermiculite? Or can I just keep it sealed up until it fruits with no holes for air exchange?
@@mixload That sounds like a good term too. But it'll make us sound like grandmas. LOL I just recently heard the term legacy actually. Not sure what to call the 'landraces', but it seems a bit incorrect for cubes.
Nice explanation. But how do you get the marker to write on a freshly cleaned plate? I keep going back and everything has smeared or faded even when using the industrial markers. I’ve finally gone back to painters tape but I don’t like putting the tape on a plate because then how do you clean it?
@@edwardgrand that would explain it. I’ve been soaking the plates pretty well. I’ve got stacks of plates that are now virtually unknown, sometimes I can make out a date. I guess it’s like sterilizing a new needle, just an unnecessary habit.
@@wonbaddadgaming9537 I’ve been spraying down a stack of ten at a time and just leaving them stacked up. Even after 20-30 minutes there is enough iso trapped in the grafting tape that it gets back on the writing surface. I just need to clean them once, and only touch them with cleaned gloved hands.
Senescence is a tough topic because people have a lot of different ideas and what it means to them. There is also a lot of terminology that isn't familiar to most growers. I will try to work on it though. I might talk about it in my next live :)
@@edwardgrand thanks! if it's helpful this is the article i most recently read on the topic, maybe this would be a jumping off point for some discussion. this is the DOI i probably can't post the link. 10.1111/j.1574-6968.2007.01027.x Ramesh Maheshwari, Arunasalam Navaraj. what i found most startling about it, if i understood correctly, was that the senesced DNA wasn't expressed until it went to spore and then grew out, so in the next generation. that and the fact that the senesced DNA could spread by hyphal contact was pretty interesting. it sounds like the wimpy tired mitochondria get spread around and dilute the efficiency of younger cells they spread into
@@edwardgrand hey just wondering if you were able to check out that article / if the summary of it i commented above sounded on track or if maybe i'm misunderstanding the info presented. thanks for your time and knowledge
Super interesting video, especially as there's very little talk out there on the CFT terminology topic! Thank you. So when I started I went ahead and did my own thing, and came up with a naming convention that aims at helping me keep track of clone and spore selection within a project, tentatively enabling me to keep track of how many spore versus cloned tissue selections I've made within a strain selection project. But now I'm wondering if it's the best approach, as I think it differs from what you explained. T is simple, I reset it every time I do a new MS or close tissue plate (or grain to agar). So far so good right? C is relatively simple too I guess.. I start with C1 the first time I do a tissue plate from a given strain, and update it whenever I do another tissue selection from within that project, which can be several spore selections down the road. So far so good again? But F... so first of all you update when spores germinate, which I should probably change to. Up to now I've updated F when fruiting. But at the end of the day, it doesn't make much difference as overall count stays the same. When it gets complicated is when you do spore, and then clone selection (and vice versa)... I keep F running, indicating the overall number of germinations within a given project, and whether a germination comes from a spore selection or a clone. My logic being I keep an overall count of fruited (or germinated) selections for my projects. The difference between F and C then implicitly indicates the number of spore selections (F-C). So for eg: - first MS fruits (or plate): C0F1 - first spore selection: C0F2 - I then clone a fruit I like: C1F3 - clone again: C2F4 - next MS: C2F5 - next clone: C3F6 etc... But now I'm guessing this is wrong? And that F is more intended to keep a count towards stabilisation? And that F should.. reset with each clone? I'm a little confused. I get how this is useful in terms of stabilisation, but what about keeping track of spore versus clone selection within one of your projects? Sorry for the looong question.. but this is something that's been bugging me months, and kinda hard to explain. 🤔 🙏 PS: actually, I guess what you do is NOT update F with each clone, but keep it running, and only update with new MS selections?
I wanted to circle back and thank you for this. Ok, this is a bit geeky and certainly an overkill for some, but your vids have rekindled the closet scientist in me, so I thought I share it with you anyway. I've been trying to create a usable ID/tracking system for my personal use, and your video was really beneficial. I was sick of lost info due to lack of space or lid smear, so a while back I moved to a serialized system using time/date for unique plate IDs. under tape. I could then record my notes in a log. Now that I've incorporated your notation, I've modernized my approach. I skip the written logging and instead turn on a cheap camera running over my bench. As I work, I just speak the details and any relevant notes. From there, and thanks to YT tools and AI, it is an easy path to a voice to transcript of the video, and then from transcript to clean tabular output ready for Excel....almost automatically. Now, I have a both a text log and a video history if I ever need to go back and double check things. While it might seem like overkill, it is faster and more dependable than my old approaches and will give me the ability to track years of plate work with the click of a mouse. Had I not seen your whiteboard presentation, I would have never taken the time to put these pieces together. Thank you.
Great vid Ed, this video was a great help for understanding and standardizing some of the nomenclature. Looking forward to the rest of the vids you've been nailing the shorter form content.
Keep doing your lives because they are hilarious, but these white board videos you started are very informative. Thank you for taking the time to educate us.
That's a good idea. You can add culture notes to your Excel sheet that would not be able to fit on a plate. Also, you don't have to worry about messy handwriting.
if i was going to cast a joker it would be you Ed, you have the greatest joker laugh ever
Thank you for that suggestion. Maybe my Mycology movie career could still have a chance!
You are seriously gifted as an educator as well as cultivator! Keep up the amazing work, and thank you so much for the knowledge.
Yeh ya Ed I've been waiting for this video. Tyvm looking forward to the next live stream.
im amazed by you and DK and others who have a lab of plates and culutures and keep them straight. Gotta have a labeling system in place🎉 always great info from the Grand Scale
Psssss !!! Yo Ed 🫢keep making more videos ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Make a video on each one please
Fantastic video! Gonna send this to lots of peeps
I always appreciate your time ED. Always look forward to your next live repost.
Brilliant 🤘
Nanook is my little female cat's name! From a Zappa song. Didn't know it was a strain.. nice!
I appreciate you going over this as keeping proper information can be a challenge!
It doesn't take long to get 40+ plates and trying to sort them out a month later. Ugh it is fun.
this rocks! always providing clarity, thanks Ed!
Yay another class with Ed!!🎉🎉
Thanks, leveling up the agar game
We sure did cover a bunch of stuff you really didn’t wanna get into. Lol😅😅
Love you dr. Grand 🤙
Just going through some of this in a discord lol. I go by the as long as I understand my plate it’s good.
Knowledge is power
@Edward Grand I like these vids! Could you explain (maybe in another video) why in the passage explanation the the outer transfer is older than the one from the middle of the plate?
That is a good point. I thought about that a lot after. Technically the stuff on the edge is 'fresher' and younger as far as cells go. I'm not sure exactly how to say it, but I guess I meant the stuff near the edge is more 'aged' as far as mitotic divisions. So it is 'older' in the sense that the DNA could have changed and 'aged' (senesced???) compared to the inoculation point. I have struggled with this idea and where the best place to subculture is. That is why 'passage' (from the edge) and 'transfer' are not synonymous.
Ed, I just have one question, what did the neighbors think when they saw you move in with that huge laminar flow hood LOL.
Psilocybe University with Prof. Dr. Ed. Agar plate labeling terminology 101. Please send tuition fees to Dr. Edward Grand.
Fresh hair cut
Ok, if I get some f2 spores from you and I grow them to fruits, they will be f2 fruits, and the spores from them will be f3?
Thanks for the info! I got a question for you, do I really need vent holes in a 54 quart tub growing cubes on grain coir and vermiculite? Or can I just keep it sealed up until it fruits with no holes for air exchange?
People do it both ways.
landrace/ legacy question. I think for some fruits and veg they talk about 'heritage'? apples, etc? is that useful?
Or no actually I meant 'heirloom' varieties lol
@@mixload That sounds like a good term too. But it'll make us sound like grandmas. LOL I just recently heard the term legacy actually. Not sure what to call the 'landraces', but it seems a bit incorrect for cubes.
@@edwardgrand 🤣
QQQ So if you recieve something as LC and take back to plate, is the first plate T0 ?
Depends on your personal preference and what info is provided by the vendor.
Nice explanation. But how do you get the marker to write on a freshly cleaned plate? I keep going back and everything has smeared or faded even when using the industrial markers. I’ve finally gone back to painters tape but I don’t like putting the tape on a plate because then how do you clean it?
Regular black sharpie not the fine point. Just gotta make sure the iso has dried before writing.
Black Sharpies are the only thing I've found that work. I usually don't spray plates though.
@@edwardgrand that would explain it. I’ve been soaking the plates pretty well. I’ve got stacks of plates that are now virtually unknown, sometimes I can make out a date.
I guess it’s like sterilizing a new needle, just an unnecessary habit.
Sharpie Pro if you can get them
@@wonbaddadgaming9537 I’ve been spraying down a stack of ten at a time and just leaving them stacked up. Even after 20-30 minutes there is enough iso trapped in the grafting tape that it gets back on the writing surface. I just need to clean them once, and only touch them with cleaned gloved hands.
Nice cut G.
Like usual, I was 15 minutes late for class. Thanks Doc!
thanks for commenting on passage/transfer, i would be interested in your video on senescence
Senescence is a tough topic because people have a lot of different ideas and what it means to them. There is also a lot of terminology that isn't familiar to most growers. I will try to work on it though. I might talk about it in my next live :)
@@edwardgrand thanks! if it's helpful this is the article i most recently read on the topic, maybe this would be a jumping off point for some discussion. this is the DOI i probably can't post the link. 10.1111/j.1574-6968.2007.01027.x Ramesh Maheshwari, Arunasalam Navaraj. what i found most startling about it, if i understood correctly, was that the senesced DNA wasn't expressed until it went to spore and then grew out, so in the next generation. that and the fact that the senesced DNA could spread by hyphal contact was pretty interesting. it sounds like the wimpy tired mitochondria get spread around and dilute the efficiency of younger cells they spread into
@@edwardgrand hey just wondering if you were able to check out that article / if the summary of it i commented above sounded on track or if maybe i'm misunderstanding the info presented. thanks for your time and knowledge
Super interesting video, especially as there's very little talk out there on the CFT terminology topic! Thank you.
So when I started I went ahead and did my own thing, and came up with a naming convention that aims at helping me keep track of clone and spore selection within a project, tentatively enabling me to keep track of how many spore versus cloned tissue selections I've made within a strain selection project. But now I'm wondering if it's the best approach, as I think it differs from what you explained.
T is simple, I reset it every time I do a new MS or close tissue plate (or grain to agar). So far so good right?
C is relatively simple too I guess.. I start with C1 the first time I do a tissue plate from a given strain, and update it whenever I do another tissue selection from within that project, which can be several spore selections down the road. So far so good again?
But F... so first of all you update when spores germinate, which I should probably change to. Up to now I've updated F when fruiting. But at the end of the day, it doesn't make much difference as overall count stays the same.
When it gets complicated is when you do spore, and then clone selection (and vice versa)... I keep F running, indicating the overall number of germinations within a given project, and whether a germination comes from a spore selection or a clone. My logic being I keep an overall count of fruited (or germinated) selections for my projects. The difference between F and C then implicitly indicates the number of spore selections (F-C).
So for eg:
- first MS fruits (or plate): C0F1
- first spore selection: C0F2
- I then clone a fruit I like: C1F3
- clone again: C2F4
- next MS: C2F5
- next clone: C3F6
etc...
But now I'm guessing this is wrong? And that F is more intended to keep a count towards stabilisation? And that F should.. reset with each clone? I'm a little confused.
I get how this is useful in terms of stabilisation, but what about keeping track of spore versus clone selection within one of your projects?
Sorry for the looong question.. but this is something that's been bugging me months, and kinda hard to explain. 🤔 🙏
PS: actually, I guess what you do is NOT update F with each clone, but keep it running, and only update with new MS selections?
I wanted to circle back and thank you for this.
Ok, this is a bit geeky and certainly an overkill for some, but your vids have rekindled the closet scientist in me, so I thought I share it with you anyway. I've been trying to create a usable ID/tracking system for my personal use, and your video was really beneficial. I was sick of lost info due to lack of space or lid smear, so a while back I moved to a serialized system using time/date for unique plate IDs. under tape. I could then record my notes in a log. Now that I've incorporated your notation, I've modernized my approach. I skip the written logging and instead turn on a cheap camera running over my bench. As I work, I just speak the details and any relevant notes. From there, and thanks to YT tools and AI, it is an easy path to a voice to transcript of the video, and then from transcript to clean tabular output ready for Excel....almost automatically. Now, I have a both a text log and a video history if I ever need to go back and double check things. While it might seem like overkill, it is faster and more dependable than my old approaches and will give me the ability to track years of plate work with the click of a mouse. Had I not seen your whiteboard presentation, I would have never taken the time to put these pieces together. Thank you.
Great vid Ed, this video was a great help for understanding and standardizing some of the nomenclature. Looking forward to the rest of the vids you've been nailing the shorter form content.
This is a video I really needed. Preciate ya Ed! I want to start on an isolation soon but had some questions on labling. This cleared a lot up!
Keep doing your lives because they are hilarious, but these white board videos you started are very informative. Thank you for taking the time to educate us.
iThank you Ed! very informative video.
i just give my plates an incrementing ID number and have an excel sheet where i put all the relevant information.
It nice if the numbers have some tangible meaning to the actual plate.
That's a good idea. You can add culture notes to your Excel sheet that would not be able to fit on a plate. Also, you don't have to worry about messy handwriting.
I just like my plates clean and the slight inconvenience of needing to look data up in a database is worth the benefits imo
Excellent tutorial as always, keep them coming Ed... It's a great reference to go back to time and time again, until it becomes second nature