I went with the conventional 1.5 Sport because 1) I do all my own maintenance, 2) I tend to keep a car at least 10 years, and 3) a conventional setup is simpler from a maintenance perspective. I average 42 MPG doing 70 MPH with A/C on, two passengers, and luggage in the trunk. I can live with that.
I got my Accord Hybrid Touring in June. The worst MPG I got was 45. Right now, with about 1/2 tank gone, I'm getting 52 (mostly commute miles). If you monitor how you drive, you can do well with MPG.
I have a new Insight. Most reviewers complain about the terrible fuel economy. They're getting numbers in the 30s. I'm getting 45 on the freeway and 50 to 53 in stoplight driving. And I'm not trying hard. I can't figure out how they can possibly burn that much fuel.
My Honda Clarity PHEV just got 712 mpg on my last tank of gas. I literally drive for months and never go to the gas station. My biggest concern is letting the gas get old. If my Clarity got 60 mpg, I would immediately take it in to the mechanic, because that would be terrible mpg for my Clarity.
I have a new insight 2020 Trim is touring and 2 gas tank avg is about 50 mpg and I believe there is a learning curve to get good mpg but it’s great car and I love it I do try to squeeze as much mpg I can do with the ev and a 10 gallon tank it well probably go a good 500 miles etc. it’s only about 1 week old and maybe the more in breaking in better mpg I had a 2001 Ford expo 4 WD 5.4 V 8 that got 8-10 mpg on a 30 gallon tank truck so I am happy Honda guy. Thanks
Recently purchased a used 17 hybrid base model with 4500 miles, it now has 10,500. We've averaging in the low 50's for mixed driving in econ mode. I do put it in sport mode on occasion when entering a highway. Coming from a 98 Civic with 265k miles this car is quite the upgrade
This car is on the top of my list (with the Avalon XSE Hybrid) , however this is just a tad too expensive as many others have pointed out. The real bargain is the base model with all the standard features
Bought my new base trim 2019 hybrid model a year ago for just under $21k (basically inventory price). 30k miles and never taken it to the shop for anything other than an oil change and tire rotation. If you're able to get a good deal like me, than hands down its a steal imo
Your presentation is truly the most effective of soooo many others I've watched. Delivery, appeal, facts, figures, pacing, etc., really well done. Straight forward and easy to digest. TY
Just got one the base one .. it sure is fast in sports mode... the best I got for now is 40mpg, I barely drove 100 miles though..wonderful car from Honda.
There is one major flaw with the '18 accord hybrid. The price. Currently there is a $4000 difference between a touring version of the 1.5T and the hybrid due to mfg. incentives and dealers having a ton of 1.5s (and 2.0Ts) on lots and very few if any hybrids. We were quoted $29,500 for a touring trim with the 1.5t VS $33500 for the hybrid. And with my normal 12k miles a year, that would take almost 10 years to earn that money back.
It's refreshing to see people that can still do math and realize that hybrids are rarely worth the price difference. Same thing goes for diesel supporters.
Totally agree with you guys about the premium not being worth it. Used is the way to go if you care about making financial sense. Will have to set an alert for any of these that hit the used market.
Great review. I like your no nonsense approach. As a long time Honda/Acura buyer since 1986. My last Honda was a 2013 Accord Sport. After that I bailed. Inquiring minds want to know. The main issues I have had, was Hondas inability to design a car free of road and wind noise. You drive many. So did they fix these issues? Also I like the Hybrid because it is a port injected motor instead of a direct injected motor used in the other Accord versions.. Big difference. Thanks!!
I own a '18 Accord Touring Hybrid. They've integrated active noise cancellation into the cabin to dampen any wind/road noise. The road/wind noise barely noticeable if you turn the radio off and are in EV mode at high speeds 65+mph.
Nice review but not much about the trim levels and which is the best buy. I can see the high-trim hybrid over the 2.0 L as it seems to be about as quick.
Just got the 2017 crv... well back in April. But te new accord us fantastic. If I knew more about the accord hybrid I would've picked that instead. Perhaps
Please let us know how the Accord Hybrid drives at roughly a steady speed on the highway. I thought that I heard elsewhere that the engine cycles on and off for better efficiency. Would you please let me know what you see when you drive it? For example, if this is true, please tell us how long would it normally stay off versus on. Were you able to find any warranty regarding the battery capacity? I am not asking about a defects warranty. I have seen some manufacturers offer terms like they guarantee at least 65% within the first 8 years or 100,000 miles. I want to know because I had a Civic Hybrid, which had enough issues with the battery that there was a class action lawsuit. Generally, I think Honda makes good cars but they have already burned me once.
I own an '18 Accord Touring Hybrid. On flat normal highway speeds 45-65 mph the engine will cycle off and on to charge the battery while applying power to the wheels during the cycle. Honestly, the transition from electric to hybrid to gas engine is nearly seamless. No jerking, clunking, clicking, or hesitation...at any speed. The only way I know what cycle/mode the car is currently in is by using the power flow monitor. As for the Honda Accord Hybrid the battery has an 8 year 4 month-100K mile warranty.
I've had my 2019 Accord hybrid for 9 months and the best gas mileage I've got is 38 mpg in mixed driving. There's no way you will get 47 mpg in this car. In the winter my mileage dropped to 31 to 33 mpg because of having to heat the car. Also the Bluetooth has a difficult time connecting to my phone, sometimes it doesn't connect at all. The heater temperature control is terrible. I should of looked at Toyota.
I had a LX Accord before my Cadillac ATS, which is AWD, and the Accord with all season tires was much better in the snow than my Cadillac. I think this mainly has to do with tires and weight. Get a good set of winter tires for the accord hybrid and you will have a badass winter car. Plus the hybrid weighs significantly more than the normal sedan. You will have traction for days. Winter tires, heavy car > AWD
Everyman Driver, Great video review on the Accord! good explanations from front to back! I would love to get some feedback/support from you on my channel that I just started if you don't mind. Thanks!
*Thoughts on 2018 Honda Accord (Design):* Let me start off by saying that there are several elements where I think the designers did a pretty good job at. First and foremost, the interior design looks nice as a simple yet pretty functional layout. A little bland on minor occasions, but still nice as it is. Additionally, I can't deny that the work they've done with most of the materials and fit-and-finish is quite rewarding. Coming out with simple creative ideas that all-in-all gives it a modern vibe to it. ..but then, there comes the new Accord's elephant in the room.... the exterior proportions, and the whole exterior design.... ...ohhh my-..... ahh god, my.... dude... I-... I think JonTron said it best here: ["Oh.... OH, a-are you serious? Is that something where someone who calls himself a professional artist/designer actually made and handed to their boss and the boss went: "Yeah that looks good, do that."......?????"] My lord, where the hell do I even begin with this? Well, I guess I can start off with the exterior design, as the whole exterior looks like it was entirely done by a brain-damaged chimpanzee! In any other exterior vehicle design, an actual vehicle designer who has the credibility to do his job, would create something that looks pretty realistic, yet also artistic at the same time. Making something that looks believable, well-proportioned, elegant, but also something that belongs in its own world, without looking too plain-jane, which was in fact something where the previous-generation Accord already did so well at. Several sedans I can think of right now with a fastback design like the all-new Toyota Avalon and Volkswagen Arteon accomplished that really well. THIS however, looks like something they want to make in order to get fired from their job! I can assure you that NO professional designer would ever look at this, and think that this is even in the slightest bit acceptable! Let alone for a sedan with a fastback bodystyle! Even you, the person who is listening to this right now, can create a design that looks much more professional than this mess! And if the exterior design wasn't enough, its exterior proportions are the ultimate piles of salt to an open wound. It tries WAY TOO hard to look so sleek, so dynamic, so elegant, so edgy, and so dramatic, and so tasteful, just to get the audience's reactions that it crosses the line, and it's not at all funny anymore! It's, simply put, just sad, desperate, disgusting, and it's only appealing to those in the lowest common denominator. You can tell when a design looks so horrific, that you have to not even give it a tiny glimpse or peek in order to look at it. Seriously, this is something I expect to see from Pontiac as a sedan version to the Aztek! Not a large and rich automotive industry like Honda! EVEN Toyota with the latest Prius, and Nissan with the latest Maxima, both did a better job than this! Like I said, there are a few good things about the new Accord's design, such as the interior... but what they did to the exterior is why I think the designers should seriously consider an immediate career change. *Overall Design Score:* 3/10
I see where you are coming from I'm actually happy Honda pulled this body style it generates a lot of attention and makes a statement. I personally like it I love the aggressive look especially as I'm squealing tires with 250 pounds of torque and 0-60 under 5 seconds it's different from typical Honda and sometimes change is good. Maybe next year or next year they'll go back to boring Honda but I love how Honda is catering to the new younger generation even if it temporarily.
I'mJustFarhan 1,000% agree. Hondas sales are down by some significant percentage this year. The automotive magazines (which are in the pocket of Honda) are saying it's because Honda isn't doing some type of sales of incentive like other car makers. That however is bullshit the vast majority of people just hate this new exterior design. Check out most of the comments on the TH-cam Honda Accord reviews. It looks like a Pontiac or a Chevy that is 3 levels lower in prestige. Sad days are here. Have to wait probably 3 years or more for the next generation design.
non-plugin hybrids should be banned before internal combustion engines. using buzzwords "electrification", "ev revolution" for these kind of cars is an insult to electrification. you can charge the battery of the electric motor inside the car, only with a gasoline powered internal combustion engine.. that's so toyota insane backwards. starting from year 2000, if we had put just 40 miles "ev-only range" batteries to hybrid cars, and had let people charge their cars at their homes or work places' parking lots (that means "plug-in hybrid" cars); fossil fuels for individual transportation would have reduced up to 80% by 2010... these non-plugin hybrids are marketing tricks actually slowing down "ev revolution" and misleading the consumers.
Your mislead and now your trying to mislead others! The electricity to charge your so called "electric plug-in vehicle" comes from mostly DIRTY sources such as coal. I'll stick to my non-plugin hybrid charged by regular gasoline.
1- generating electricity in power plants from fossil fuels is not an inevitable thing. there are other ways, let alone solar wind etc., look at the countries with big rivers. there more than 60 countries in the world which produce more than %50 of their electricity by renewable sources.. But generating electricity in a car with fossil fuel is "by definition by fossil fuel" and is dirty and a crazy dumb idea. 2- using same fossil fuel in power plants for electricity generation and than charging real EV's with that electricity, will actually provide roughly %50 less fossil fuel consumption.. This is because best of best internal combustion engines, after 100 years of development and optimization, are damn inefficient in comparison with electric motors that are being developed for EV's for only 10 years (%20 vs %80)...
Disagreement is OK everyone has their own opinion but you’re really starting to sound like a salesman in your videos Honda is having all kinds of troubles just look at the world market gas in there oil, Come on Honda sensing does not work make a video proving that it works my local Honda salesman could not Demonstrate the break avoidance system On his lot he would not even attempt to I walked away
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I went with the conventional 1.5 Sport because 1) I do all my own maintenance, 2) I tend to keep a car at least 10 years, and 3) a conventional setup is simpler from a maintenance perspective. I average 42 MPG doing 70 MPH with A/C on, two passengers, and luggage in the trunk. I can live with that.
I got my Accord Hybrid Touring in June. The worst MPG I got was 45. Right now, with about 1/2 tank gone, I'm getting 52 (mostly commute miles). If you monitor how you drive, you can do well with MPG.
I have a new Insight. Most reviewers complain about the terrible fuel economy. They're getting numbers in the 30s. I'm getting 45 on the freeway and 50 to 53 in stoplight driving. And I'm not trying hard. I can't figure out how they can possibly burn that much fuel.
My Honda Clarity PHEV just got 712 mpg on my last tank of gas. I literally drive for months and never go to the gas station. My biggest concern is letting the gas get old. If my Clarity got 60 mpg, I would immediately take it in to the mechanic, because that would be terrible mpg for my Clarity.
I have a new insight 2020 Trim is touring and 2 gas tank avg is about 50 mpg and I believe there is a learning curve to get good mpg but it’s great car and I love it I do try to squeeze as much mpg I can do with the ev and a 10 gallon tank it well probably go a good 500 miles etc. it’s only about 1 week old and maybe the more in breaking in better mpg
I had a 2001 Ford expo 4 WD 5.4 V 8 that got 8-10 mpg on a 30 gallon tank truck so I am happy Honda guy. Thanks
Recently purchased a used 17 hybrid base model with 4500 miles, it now has 10,500. We've averaging in the low 50's for mixed driving in econ mode. I do put it in sport mode on occasion when entering a highway. Coming from a 98 Civic with 265k miles this car is quite the upgrade
This car is on the top of my list (with the Avalon XSE Hybrid) , however this is just a tad too expensive as many others have pointed out. The real bargain is the base model with all the standard features
Dave I guess you meant to say honda estimates to have 2/3 of hybrid cars by 2030 not 2013.
Great review.
Booya!
yes, misspoke :-)
Bought my new base trim 2019 hybrid model a year ago for just under $21k (basically inventory price). 30k miles and never taken it to the shop for anything other than an oil change and tire rotation. If you're able to get a good deal like me, than hands down its a steal imo
Your presentation is truly the most effective of soooo many others I've watched. Delivery, appeal, facts, figures, pacing, etc., really well done. Straight forward and easy to digest. TY
Casey Jones...you better watch your speed...!
I just got the Accord Hybrid. Another world, much better; as many others whom been driving regular gas car to Hybrid. So far so good!!
Just got one the base one .. it sure is fast in sports mode... the best I got for now is 40mpg, I barely drove 100 miles though..wonderful car from Honda.
There is one major flaw with the '18 accord hybrid. The price. Currently there is a $4000 difference between a touring version of the 1.5T and the hybrid due to mfg. incentives and dealers having a ton of 1.5s (and 2.0Ts) on lots and very few if any hybrids. We were quoted $29,500 for a touring trim with the 1.5t VS $33500 for the hybrid. And with my normal 12k miles a year, that would take almost 10 years to earn that money back.
It's refreshing to see people that can still do math and realize that hybrids are rarely worth the price difference. Same thing goes for diesel supporters.
I’ve been saying this forever. Hybrids may make you feel good, but generally do not make any financial sense vs traditional gas vehicles.
Totally agree with you guys about the premium not being worth it. Used is the way to go if you care about making financial sense. Will have to set an alert for any of these that hit the used market.
ronnie greher Went from a $42K 13-14 mpg city '13 RAM 1500 and to a $25K (yes that's what I paid) 47 mpg '18 Accord Touring Hybrid. I have no regrets.
Anthony Barnett Whoa. Why so cheap on the 2018 Accord Hybrid? Trade in from the truck?
2013 Dave (at the 06:08 videomark)? Did I just enter the Everyman Driver wayback machine?
J High whoops!
He meant to say 2030.
Bummer, I was hoping Dave had in fact invented a wayback machine.
Great review. I like your no nonsense approach. As a long time Honda/Acura buyer since 1986. My last Honda was a 2013 Accord Sport. After that I bailed. Inquiring minds want to know. The main issues I have had, was Hondas inability to design a car free of road and wind noise. You drive many. So did they fix these issues? Also I like the Hybrid because it is a port injected motor instead of a direct injected motor used in the other Accord versions.. Big difference. Thanks!!
I own a '18 Accord Touring Hybrid. They've integrated active noise cancellation into the cabin to dampen any wind/road noise. The road/wind noise barely noticeable if you turn the radio off and are in EV mode at high speeds 65+mph.
Great review, man! Concise and easily understandable.
When will Honda come out with a Hybrid CRV for America
It's actually due out soon
I was wondering the same. I bought the new Accord Hybrid because they don’t offer the CRV Hybrid for America
It’s in Japan already - as others said either a 2019 or 2020 US model. Pilot and Odyssey PHEV in testing now (you can find mule shots)
you should campaign for a "plug-in" hybrid with a decent ev-only range. the difference between that and a non-plug-in like this accord is essential.
Diesel CRV has been available in other markets for some time now.
Honda design always clean
Honda needs to make this a hatchback!
Yes!
Accord *Cough Crosstour
Wagon
Please, no. 😕
Hearse...!
Nice review but not much about the trim levels and which is the best buy. I can see the high-trim hybrid over the 2.0 L as it seems to be about as quick.
Just got the 2017 crv... well back in April. But te new accord us fantastic. If I knew more about the accord hybrid I would've picked that instead. Perhaps
I just drove a Ford Fusion hybrid I was surprised by how much I like it, just don’t like the trunk space with a huge battery
I HOPE THIS IS MY THE FIRST CAR
2:51 nice marijuana transition fx
aaga lol 😂 I thought the same in this video and the others with that graphic he uses.
the old ones are still 25k+ 15' 17'
Please let us know how the Accord Hybrid drives at roughly a steady speed on the highway. I thought that I heard elsewhere that the engine cycles on and off for better efficiency. Would you please let me know what you see when you drive it? For example, if this is true, please tell us how long would it normally stay off versus on.
Were you able to find any warranty regarding the battery capacity? I am not asking about a defects warranty. I have seen some manufacturers offer terms like they guarantee at least 65% within the first 8 years or 100,000 miles. I want to know because I had a Civic Hybrid, which had enough issues with the battery that there was a class action lawsuit. Generally, I think Honda makes good cars but they have already burned me once.
I own an '18 Accord Touring Hybrid. On flat normal highway speeds 45-65 mph the engine will cycle off and on to charge the battery while applying power to the wheels during the cycle. Honestly, the transition from electric to hybrid to gas engine is nearly seamless. No jerking, clunking, clicking, or hesitation...at any speed. The only way I know what cycle/mode the car is currently in is by using the power flow monitor. As for the Honda Accord Hybrid the battery has an 8 year 4 month-100K mile warranty.
Hey Dave. I am curious as to what the trip computer showed as the cruising or fuel range from a full tank of gap.
The seats look weird to me. Kinda like the headrest is too small for the seat
Please change the intro music.
47 mpg wowww nice size for that mpg
I bought the 2018 accord Sport 2.0t (Silent Night Peral color)
Still night pearl. Good choice
I've had my 2019 Accord hybrid for 9 months and the best gas mileage I've got is 38 mpg in mixed driving. There's no way you will get 47 mpg in this car. In the winter my mileage dropped to 31 to 33 mpg because of having to heat the car. Also the Bluetooth has a difficult time connecting to my phone, sometimes it doesn't connect at all. The heater temperature control is terrible. I should of looked at Toyota.
No need to mention that this car doesn't come with a spare tire. That's no biggie right?
no spare tire..a deal breaker
Oddly shaped rear cup holders. I still need AWD for winter.
I had a LX Accord before my Cadillac ATS, which is AWD, and the Accord with all season tires was much better in the snow than my Cadillac. I think this mainly has to do with tires and weight. Get a good set of winter tires for the accord hybrid and you will have a badass winter car. Plus the hybrid weighs significantly more than the normal sedan. You will have traction for days. Winter tires, heavy car > AWD
Buy some oddly shaped cups...voila!
HONDA♡AŞK ♡TIR GERISI HEYECAN.👍👏👏👏👏
Comparo to Camry Hybrid please!
Everyman Driver, Great video review on the Accord! good explanations from front to back! I would love to get some feedback/support from you on my channel that I just started if you don't mind. Thanks!
No driving impressions?
Are you shopping for a Accord Hybrid?
@@everymandriver Do you always answer a question with a question?
Dave Riley Should I answer with something else?
@@everymandriver :-)
Malibu Hybrid gets better hwy fuel economy in Car & Driver testing.
*Thoughts on 2018 Honda Accord (Design):*
Let me start off by saying that there are several elements where I think the designers did a pretty good job at. First and foremost, the interior design looks nice as a simple yet pretty functional layout. A little bland on minor occasions, but still nice as it is. Additionally, I can't deny that the work they've done with most of the materials and fit-and-finish is quite rewarding. Coming out with simple creative ideas that all-in-all gives it a modern vibe to it.
..but then, there comes the new Accord's elephant in the room.... the exterior proportions, and the whole exterior design....
...ohhh my-..... ahh god, my.... dude... I-... I think JonTron said it best here:
["Oh.... OH, a-are you serious? Is that something where someone who calls himself a professional artist/designer actually made and handed to their boss and the boss went: "Yeah that looks good, do that."......?????"]
My lord, where the hell do I even begin with this? Well, I guess I can start off with the exterior design, as the whole exterior looks like it was entirely done by a brain-damaged chimpanzee!
In any other exterior vehicle design, an actual vehicle designer who has the credibility to do his job, would create something that looks pretty realistic, yet also artistic at the same time. Making something that looks believable, well-proportioned, elegant, but also something that belongs in its own world, without looking too plain-jane, which was in fact something where the previous-generation Accord already did so well at. Several sedans I can think of right now with a fastback design like the all-new Toyota Avalon and Volkswagen Arteon accomplished that really well.
THIS however, looks like something they want to make in order to get fired from their job! I can assure you that NO professional designer would ever look at this, and think that this is even in the slightest bit acceptable! Let alone for a sedan with a fastback bodystyle! Even you, the person who is listening to this right now, can create a design that looks much more professional than this mess!
And if the exterior design wasn't enough, its exterior proportions are the ultimate piles of salt to an open wound. It tries WAY TOO hard to look so sleek, so dynamic, so elegant, so edgy, and so dramatic, and so tasteful, just to get the audience's reactions that it crosses the line, and it's not at all funny anymore! It's, simply put, just sad, desperate, disgusting, and it's only appealing to those in the lowest common denominator. You can tell when a design looks so horrific, that you have to not even give it a tiny glimpse or peek in order to look at it.
Seriously, this is something I expect to see from Pontiac as a sedan version to the Aztek! Not a large and rich automotive industry like Honda! EVEN Toyota with the latest Prius, and Nissan with the latest Maxima, both did a better job than this!
Like I said, there are a few good things about the new Accord's design, such as the interior... but what they did to the exterior is why I think the designers should seriously consider an immediate career change.
*Overall Design Score:* 3/10
😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
Could have said: "I like the interior. I dislike the exterior"
I see where you are coming from I'm actually happy Honda pulled this body style it generates a lot of attention and makes a statement. I personally like it I love the aggressive look especially as I'm squealing tires with 250 pounds of torque and 0-60 under 5 seconds it's different from typical Honda and sometimes change is good. Maybe next year or next year they'll go back to boring Honda but I love how Honda is catering to the new younger generation even if it temporarily.
I'mJustFarhan 1,000% agree. Hondas sales are down by some significant percentage this year. The automotive magazines (which are in the pocket of Honda) are saying it's because Honda isn't doing some type of sales of incentive like other car makers. That however is bullshit the vast majority of people just hate this new exterior design. Check out most of the comments on the TH-cam Honda Accord reviews. It looks like a Pontiac or a Chevy that is 3 levels lower in prestige. Sad days are here. Have to wait probably 3 years or more for the next generation design.
sales pitch for Honda
I disagree.
non-plugin hybrids should be banned before internal combustion engines. using buzzwords "electrification", "ev revolution" for these kind of cars is an insult to electrification. you can charge the battery of the electric motor inside the car, only with a gasoline powered internal combustion engine.. that's so toyota insane backwards. starting from year 2000, if we had put just 40 miles "ev-only range" batteries to hybrid cars, and had let people charge their cars at their homes or work places' parking lots (that means "plug-in hybrid" cars); fossil fuels for individual transportation would have reduced up to 80% by 2010... these non-plugin hybrids are marketing tricks actually slowing down "ev revolution" and misleading the consumers.
Your mislead and now your trying to mislead others! The electricity to charge your so called "electric plug-in vehicle" comes from mostly DIRTY sources such as coal. I'll stick to my non-plugin hybrid charged by regular gasoline.
1- generating electricity in power plants from fossil fuels is not an inevitable thing. there are other ways, let alone solar wind etc., look at the countries with big rivers. there more than 60 countries in the world which produce more than %50 of their electricity by renewable sources.. But generating electricity in a car with fossil fuel is "by definition by fossil fuel" and is dirty and a crazy dumb idea.
2- using same fossil fuel in power plants for electricity generation and than charging real EV's with that electricity, will actually provide roughly %50 less fossil fuel consumption.. This is because best of best internal combustion engines, after 100 years of development and optimization, are damn inefficient in comparison with electric motors that are being developed for EV's for only 10 years (%20 vs %80)...
What makes you think anything should be "banned", Heinrich?
@@mqbitsko25like leaded gasoline banned, like smoking in aeroplanes is banned, simple..
Disagreement is OK everyone has their own opinion but you’re really starting to sound like a salesman in your videos Honda is having all kinds of troubles just look at the world market gas in there oil, Come on Honda sensing does not work make a video proving that it works my local Honda salesman could not Demonstrate the break avoidance system On his lot he would not even attempt to I walked away
Great car, but the front grill is Pontiac Aztec ugly!
A Sports grille in black or chrome is available as an accessory from Honda reducing the visual impact of that standard wide front chrome piece.
Keep driving your mom's Ramber then..