Complainers VS. Vulnerable Narcissists
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT. - บันเทิง
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a complainer will poke fun at themselves and have some self awareness. a narcissist will make excuses and reasons for WHY theyre behaving that way and lash out. definitely a massive difference.
I love it! Great and useful example.
The complaining is driving me mad!! I stopped eating breakfast with the VN cuz I couldn’t take the negativity that early in my day! the complaining feels like nagging! Constant NAG NAG NAG , apparently I am supposed to fix the complaints FOR the VN! I’m losing my mind!!
@@dlzzthefish and you'll NEVER be able to! or you will, and then they'll just find something else to complain about!
**never be able to, meaning nothing will ever be quite right or good enough for them**
Bang on!
Vulnerable narcissists may also talk down about themselves so that others fawn over and feel sorry for them.
But when it comes to actually taking responsibility for themselves and their situation, like you said, they make excuses.
Lash out when they are the crazy privileged ones for sure, excellent video.
Instead of trying to figure out if someone's a narc or not, *I remind myself now it's OKAY (and healthy!) to ask: does this relationship make ME feel happy, reciprocally supported, etc.?* I've spent most of my life tending a garden overrun with snails and weeds. Now starts my era of cultivating flowers, reciprocal kindness, and JOY! 🌈🌱🌿😃💐🍀💖
And I agree 👍🎉
Approaching any new relationship (romantic or not), it's nice to learn that instead of trying to impress someone, it's wise to politely, sit back a bit and determine whether or not the new person impresses you. Totally healthy to not assume the new person is someone you want in your circle. Like gardening, something small and green starts to sprout. Is it a tulip or a thistle? Give it some time - then feed it or weed it!
@@Dana-gj5hr Love this! "...something small and green starts to sprout. Is it a tulip or a thistle? Give it some time - then feed it or weed it!" 🌷😃🌷
@@Dana-gj5hrperfect ❤
Yaay! Sanity! 🙏🦋✨
They also think that everything is "easy" for other people. I was told that I got a PhD because grad school was easy for me. They are unable to see or acknowledge the effort of others. I was so put off by this, that I made a point to show my children how hard people work - especially people who are often taken for granted like garbage collectors, motel maids etc. I never wanted them to dismiss the hard work of others or view people with thankless jobs as lesser.
Or they attribute all your successes to luck. It's a sideways way to insult you and your effort. Been there. Heard that from Narc parents. Have taught my offspring that even if 1% luck knocks on their door, GREAT!, but you'll still be putting in 99% of the work to be ready for the moment. DON'T let someone (grandparents) sell short your work.
@@Dana-gj5hr right!
Congratulations on being someone who managed to get their PhD 🎉
I wasn't able to finish mine.
Well done 🤩
@@TheKrispyfort Thank you. What was your area of study? I know a number of people who stopped with a masters and have preferred the work available with that degree (often more of what they liked and fewer meetings and paperwork).
@@Dana-gj5hr Louis Pasteur: 'Chance favors the prepared mind.' Luck doesn't help if you don't act on it.
Excellent video. My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.
its difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation, my relationship of 12 years ended, but i couldnt just let him go i did all i could to get him back, i had to seek the help of a spiritual counselor who helped me bring him back.
Amazing, how did you get a spiritual counselor, and how do i reach her/him?
Her name is Shelly renee white , and she is a great spiritual counselor who can bring back your ex
Thank you for this valuable information, i just looked her up now online. impressive
Yeah, I feel your pain also. It sucks especially when they find a new partner. I'm going through that now.
Recently my dad 76 fell and broke his hip and shoulder, then my GF broke up with me, and last weekend I got a DUI. So, think about how things can change for the worse real quick.
What haunts me the most, I contributed alot of toxicity into my last relationship. I'm NOT proud. I know she brought alot unintentionally but I needed to maintain my poor behaviors. Sad thing is...I'm 51 and change isn't easy after all those years.
Unfortunately, I grew up in a family of vulnerable/covert narcissistic people. I found the ONLY way to undue the damage from their negative cloud is to get away and stay away. The heaviness is crushing and can kill anything/anyone that wants to live.
Truth!
this hit me right in gut. I'm currently trying to get away from a long time partner and father of my child and it's so hard and I'm just so afraid. I KNOW the benefits will GREATLY outweigh the 'negative' in my head but pulling the trigger is HARD. Trying to find my strength but you're so right, that cloud of negative they carry around suffocates and kills anything and everything around them.
Truly life threatening. Only people who have experienced it can understand. It defies explanation.
Spot on.
I don't think 'vulnerable' and 'covert' are synonyms, here. A conjunctive "and/or" may be a more exact way to put it.
Someone can be a grandiose malignant type of narcissist who never experiences self doubt or inhibition on a moral or emotional level, but never the less is still capable of inhibiting or modulating their communication and affect enough to be covert.
Non-narcissistic complainers are just annoying, vulnerable narcissists make you feel guilty or small because their complaints usually contain some kind of accusation.
You nailed it! That's the difference.
Yes exactly!!
💯!! .... It's *ALWAYS* your fault!!
Yep
Especially if the accusation is untrue, or the complaint causes harm of some kind.
I got it. That's why toxic bosses complain about you but don't help you grow your career. It's so harmful to you. 😮
Absolutely 💯! Anyone who has a genuine concern or interest in you, or about you, will not just complain or offer an "opinion," they will try and help find a solution.
Aloha, Yukio. 💮
@@lindac6919 Hi 🙂
@@BaraSchmidt Exactly. 🎯 Good managers give you constructive criticism and help you move forward.
I got this person out of my life. He would ask for my help or advice and then tell me I was wrong. Exhausting
I had a friend like that too - always with the same issues but never doing anything about any of it. I'd make suggestions that could help bring her issues to a manageable place. I didn't care whether she did any of what I said - anything at all would have been fine - as long as she took those steps - but no, that didn't happen. The exhaustion is real.
Had a manager who did that. Wanted your opinion, & immediately after you gave it would unfailingly tell you he was going to do the opposite.
Same. Covert narc mom asked me for financial advice (I'm qualified to do this), and then just got angry when I told her she'd been given a lot of incorrect information by an in-law, started irrelevantly personally attacking my wife and making stuff up, saying she was going to do "what makes her happy," and giving out wrong information herself like she was an expert despite having zero training. Never again.
Ooooohhh, I know what you mean. Been there, done that.
Yeah, that's narcissist trait. When they hear something you value, they smash it down quickly. My ex gf would do that regularly
I learned so much from Dr.Ramani, my entire perspective of the world has changed. I’m not as naive, and for that I’m forever grateful
Omg!! I needed this confirmation today. I've been struggling with this person in my life for years. Nothings fair, not my fault, nobody tells me what to do, this person's an idiot, the sulking, mood swings, apologies with BUT attached. .etc. Funny thing is, they won't confront anyone, cuz they don't want to look bad, so guess who gets to hear it.
I know the feeling. If they can't express their complaints to the offending party, it
is obviously that they're "chickensh*t". I've lost respect for whiners and complainers.
Some people "bitch" about everything... It's worse with old people.
I'm old too, but I get tired of of the complaints and criticism of all
the changes in society. This is life, change happens. I could never
concentrate on negativity for very long because I enjoy being happy.
That's also a complaint.
It took me until earlier this year to finally realise that my mother, when endlessly complaining about needing to get something sorted, actually didn’t want it to be sorted… I spent weeks trying to get some things done for her which would solve the problem, only for her to change her mind as soon as the arrangements had been made (cue plenty of embarrassing phone calls for me to unwind the arrangements). Never again
Thank you Dr Ramani. Complaining in my family was an art form. A black cloud that hung everywhere. When I changed, I could feel that sunshine on my life, everything shifted.
I was raised by a vulnerable narcissist. So after much therapy I went to graduate school for counseling. My second year supervisor unmasked herself as a vulnerable narcissist by swiftly taking her own personal life stress into the workplace, (tantrums, baiting, triangulating). She ran a smear campaign that I was inept projecting her own bad behavior as mine! Rather than get in the mud with her. I POLITELY picked myself up, said nothing (DEEP!) sought out a new adjacent supervisor and worked 3x as hard to prove my worth to myself and my colleagues. Over time her character came through clearly for all to judge objectively. Interestingly the few (3/50)that supported her were also vulnerable too. Her behavior spoke volumes- she highlighted HERSELF exactly who owned the dark traits!
Honestly I never noticed I was a very negative complainer person until it was said to my face by someone important to me. After that I started to take a look at myself and try to change. I can still be quite a downer and enjoy a good moan but I manage to make it sound less negative, in a more upbeat/joking kind of way. It runs in the family, this personality trait.😅
Be strong enough to be honest and kind
I get it .. had a vulnerable narc as a friend per say friend. I am a complainer when I get into a rut .. just fear taking over. But the cool thing about us non narcs there is always change. New places to go a new people to meet. You know.. ❤
So Brilliant. Where else are we going to learn about these subtle differences in identifying Narcissists? You are so Great at knowing what we need to hear, and how we need to hear it, Dr. Ramani. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You for everything you do for this community!
Tbh as insufferable as it may sound, simply going out there and experience meeting some new people will help. Worst experience, you meet a load of narcissists and learn how to make a swift exit 😂 Best case scenario, you might meet someone you really gel with, who you'd not otherwise interact with potentially.
Not everyone will be a narcissist, that's for sure, but observing other peoples behaviours, and also peoples reactions towards that person, can give you more insight. Two people may be on the same level of serial moaning, but it's the combination of their OTHER traits which will give you the more "subtle differences/understandings", as no one's gonna be exactly the same. I feel once our eyes have been opened, even to just the basic concepts of narcissism, I find it almost like you can never see the world "in any other way" ever again once spotting these narcissist traits. and imo you can take a fair amount of peoples problems in life, and boil them down to fundamentally being caused by narcissism(be it directly or indirectly caused).
If you don't wanna meet new people, that's totally fair 😂 you can also watch online streamers/youtubers vloggers. Anyone who is interacting directly with the general public/live audience, will give you opportunities to see people interacting with each other, and observe any behaviours or power dynamics etc. However I will say, don't overanalyse/armchair science too much. At the end of the day we can only infer peoples actions on video since we don't know their true intentions. I also don't wanna sound like I'm some debbie downer watching creators online like that. I will just watch something normally at face value, and it's only when someone drops a very peculiar comment/behaviour and that makes the ears prick up/alarm bells faintly ring. Then you might consider thinking slightly more into it or not.
Someone close to me has ANXIETY. And sometimes, it looks like narcissism. But the motivation is different, and there is no over-arching agenda.
My ex was a vulnerable narcissist...This is spot-on. She always painted herself as the misunderstood victim, the hidden genius, with the world against her, and if you dared suggest ways for her to get out of her situation, to help her, she'd turn that around immediately and use it against you. Just as she'd never accept the slightest criticism, but was very good at dealing out harsh criticism.
Complainers and things you’ve described can also come with long term narcissistic abused people who are trying to get someone else to acknowledge what’s happening
I've commented in the past here on my narc mother and the outlandish stuff she does on a daily basis. But this video comes in at a great time, as I do want to mention a few things about her being a chronic complainer:
Recently she's been a month long holiday to Portugal - now while I have ZERO issues if anyone goes on holiday abroad and post photos of the trip every five minutes, during this month she posted well over a couple of thousand photos with captions in the line of "oh this place is so wonderful, the food is great etc." on social media, you get the vibe, which sounds pretty fine and normal. However, first thing when she landed back from her trip, she couldn't stop complaining about every SINGLE thing, used slurs and insults about the Portuguese people comparing them to certain ethnicities, and she "proudly" boasted about her being rude to fellow tourists in smaller towns proclaiming if she didn't like someone simply for whatever reason(could be because eg. they're from a Middle-eastern country and according to her all of them are bad, or maybe they're younger tourists doing a bit of travelling) she would swear at them in public or cause a verbal argument, and here's the kicker - complained about that Portugal isn't an English-speaking country(can anyone tell her the million Dollar answer on why Portugal isn't an English speaking place?). A complete contradiction coming from someone who'd you expect were enjoying their holiday by the looks of their FB photos. Then yesterday she'd go on some travel group on FB and post about how bad the place was mentioning the abovementioned, and that's when someone commented on it rightfully saying "well you're not going to enjoy Germany or Italy if you fully expect people to just speak English", in which she started a fight online, thinking oh look at me I'm winning this argument - meanwhile people rightfully told her to stop being entitled and actually show a bit of respect when travelling, reminding her that she's a guest hence why if you don't behave or keep being rude, people will be rude to you in return.
The thing that does grind my gears though is the following: my family members unfortunately are the enablers. In this instance when she couldn't stop complaining, their response would be "oh that is so bad and unacceptable, how dare they hurt your feelings", and would only the whole time agree with her, basically being her echo chamber. It's also rich coming from her to expect countries she visits on holiday to adapt to her narrow-minded and entitled needs, when she herself lives in a country reliant on tourism and is the first one to complain if some tourist here does the same as what she did abroad. Talk about rules for thee but not me hey.
It sounds like she's a great person to NOT travel with.
I'm glad you didn't have to travel with her! Sorry, it shouldn't have been like this. Atleast you are in peace❤
Hahaha I did travel with my narcissistic vulnerable mother, it was THE WORST experience ever.. she would present herself as sweet and charming in FRONT of everyone then backstab and COMPLAIN about the room, the service the people flying on the same plane… and so on.. sigh lesson learnt .. now no contact with her.. made my life much happier!!
Wow..that obviously alot and I can certainly relate. - I moved over 50 miles away from my mom so when we do see each other its for a couple of hours months apart..not much time for her to get comfortable. How do you cope though?!😓
Let me guess she's English and voted for Brexit
Oh what I would give to get just one session with you! You are such an icon. You and Esther Perel are my forever faves. Invaluable insight; always given in the most gentle and comprehensive way. Keep on keepin’ on Dr. Ramani! Thanks for what you do for the uninformed.
She is wonderful!
Ester Perel claims she has 'super natural' powers that are unverifiable. Please do not compare Dr. Ramani's researched work to Ester's claims.
They expect everything they want to be given to them, but if it is, they would still be miserable.
There's a character in a story by Collette, who complains about her work all the time. But when someone challenges her on it, she says something like:
"oh, no - I love my work! And how can I enjoy it, if I do not complain of it?
I live for two things, Madame: to work; and to complain!"
It almost midnight here in Sydney Australia, , im still living (crap its death really) under the same roof as a malignant narcissist with two kids 9&7yo , how do i leave? Do i get therapy first? How do i save my kids they have been alienated from me ?? The malignant narcissist is 💯 real , she is also a school teacher who works in a private school, , teachers are known to be trust worthy are they ,, theres another reason why you wouldn't believe me over her ,, its sickening,, if your not sure your with a malignant narcissist, if everyday theres no peace or communication to create peace and good life then (continuously) your with a malignant narcissist! 💯
I would advice you to start psychotherapy in order to protect you and your children.Don't spend so much time thinking whom other people would believe, you or your wife, but start believing in yourself,your emotions and your needs and your judgment.And the profession of a person doesn't matter in terms of psychopathology.
Therapy first, then consult a lawyer. I stayed way too long & it didn't help my children or my mental & physical health. You deserve better! Begin setting things into motion, or you'll find 20 years have slipped by & things will have gotten worse, not better. I wish you health, happiness & a bright future!
I'm sorry you're going through this. I've lived a very similar situation too, & I'm pretty far out on the other side. In that spirit I'd like to offer some hopefully helpful & encouraging words. First, if therapy will help you find & build the strength to find & execute your best possible (safe!) plan to exit, then yes, definitely find a way to do that under the radar first. Even if you have already accomplished those things within yourself, still find a net of support for yourself, it can make all the difference especially on those darkest days. Richard Grannon has a lot of fantastic work too, if you haven't heard of him I recommend him highly. (I still love Dr Ramani to pieces though!)
As to parental alienation, God do I know how hard that utterly sucks. My older 2 children were groomed literally from birth to be alienated from me. Things reached such an insane fever pitch by the time they were 13 & 14 respectively, that the only thing I could do was to let them go, continue to offer love & support as best I could where they would allow it, & hope they might one day return. All this in spite of my ex actually molesting our daughter & her best friend!!! That was the breaking point that I couldn't not make the steps to get out, even though it turned out that I couldn't rescue my older 2 with me, hard as I tried. I think it was about 6 - 9 months from my daughter being devastated by the molestation & airing it out to our family therapist, to telling our assigned Guardian ad Litem all about how I was the true monster & her molester was actually the preferred & better parent. Absolutely unhinged mind bending insanity. Certainly one of the most heartbreaking things a loving parent could possibly experience. But there is hope. Most children do eventually start to figure out that things are not as they seemed or were presented, even though it usually takes them to at least begin touching into adulthood. Often when they have their own children, & their view of reality necessarily shifts drastically. After more than 10 years of being totally excluded from my daughters life, & just about the time I was a peach fuzz hair away from finally giving up my last ragged shred of hope that I would ever hear from either of them again, my daughter reached out to me because she had gotten pregnant near the end of last year. And we have been slowly but steadily building back our relationship ever since. My oldest son may never return, as there are numerous other complicating factors, but at least 2 out of 3 is better then 1 out of 3 or none out of 3. You can only do what you can do, & do your best to forgive yourself for not being able to do more. We're all only human, after all. And I did have some hope of return for my oldest with the return of my daughter, even though it is still very very tiny.
Anyway, I've found some very helpful people that understand these dynamics from the intimate perspective of experience. The Anti-Alienation Project is a channel here on YT that is run by a young woman named Maddy, who lived the experience of being the alienated child, & she's really wonderful. Very heart centered. She also has a web site linked in her channel description. (I'm not sharing any links so hopefully this comment will make it through the gauntlet of the algorithm.) I also follow Charlie McCready, he has a facebook page & a web site, & is a coach for loving parents of alienated children, from the perspective of being an alienated father himself. (Again, sorry I can't share links.)
I hope my comment is helpful for you (& possibly others) & I will pray that you find your way through & out the other side as best as can be accomplished in your situation.
I love that you explain the differences between isolated bad traits and narcissism. As positive as i am, i can have my down days & it doesnt take long before the "stop having a victim mindset" people fly over. Im far from a victim and have always identified with the opposite.
Covert narcissists show a pattern of abusive, undercutting behavior over years.
Thank you soo much for posting this! I really need more information on vulnerable narcissists and how to help others who are suffering from these kinds of people.
Thank you! I really appreciate you highlighting these differences. I struggle with what others see as chronic complaining or negativity. Which isn't true, but because they live pretty privileged to not have gone thru and still be in the fallout from decades of narcissistic abuse, when they ask how I am and say they really do care, but what I'm dealing with is truly heavy and dark and difficult,they m say, why can't you just look on the bright side. It's a catch 22.
What I learned from you and other PhD psychologists etc is that the chronic long term from birth abuse of multiple narcissistic types will Perrysburg a negativity bias deeper than regular, plus, there's a ton of stuff we're genuinely still trying to heal from, often while still managing many of the narcissistic folks having to be in our lives, so things aren't a bowl full of cherries, and when folks want to know how we really are, that's what's really going on. So, I get labeled like this as if I'm toxic and, from someone who never got validation, but got abuse, punishment and gaslighting for having a normal pained reaction to severely harmful treatment, it really hurtful to not have support for the genuinely difficult things I have been striving to change for a very long time.
My therapist finally told me after years in her office, that I'm the most dedicated and hard working, presevering person she's met and still I've got a super tough set of circumstances. So I hence every right to feel like what most folks see as "complaining". I burst into tears, it's the first time I felt seen,tho I don't see myself as all that, I just see myself trying and getting pushed/beaten back down repeatedly.
Dr. Ramani , you're an absolutely amazing person . Thank you so very much for your videos. I really didn't understand narcissistic personality until listening to you explaining it. I'm so very grateful to your sharing the information & ways to cope
❤🎉
My ex ticks all the boxes for a vulnerable narcissist, but he was successful. In the time we were married, I supported and encouraged him through multiple promotions. He was so jealous of everyone, and never happy - New job, new house, new baby, new bike, new car, nothing ever good enough. He needed constant praise and attention, it was exhausting. He'd even be self deprecating sometimes to make me say something to cheer him up, or sacrifice my plans to do something nice for him. He'd never do the same for me, and in arguments, claim I was never there for him 😳
So true. Ask yourself how you are feeling when you are dealing with the negativity of the complainers?! I opt out, it’s not my problem to solve any more, and I am sooo glad it’s not! Thank you dr Ramani ❤ God bless you ❤
The mother. The ex husband. The ex romance 2018. 5 former friends. No contact with all those passive aggressive covert narcissists. Soooo miserable soooo negative sooooo critical soooo entitled soooo emotionally lazy. Arrggghhh. Ghastly people.
Happy joyous and free from all those issues. Sooo grateful for my life without them
Your description of the people in my life above is 💯
Thank you. I really need this video right now
Perfect timing. Thank you.
Great video, thank you! I especially found the last few minutes very relevant. I know I have the very bad habit of complaining about the narcissist in my life & I need to curtail it. After discussing it with my therapist recently, we agreed it keeps me in a victim mentality. I'm glad that I have my sister to vent to & she has me to listen. No one else is going to understand & I can't expect them to.
Your videos describe exactly what I'm dealing with, and it's very validating.
Always fun to dine out with them. Their level of expectation for food quality and service is beyond the capabilities of the average chef/server. Meals are a pouty, joyless, uncomfortable experience.
My question. How does the same person find a hair in their food or something in their drink every time you go out?
The whole time I’ve been following Dr. Ramani, I’ve been not sure if my ex was vulnerable or not. This video convinced me he was not. He had hustle. He launched quite well. He continues to have a successful career. I think he was (is) self-righteous. Maybe the negativity of his self-righteousness felt like the complaining of vulnerable narcissism.
They came in during this and apparently didn't like what he was hearing!
Ha ha, I’ve been accused of imagining he has a problem (despite him being diagnosed with a personality disorder by a psychiatrist) because I’ve listened to Dr Ramani too many times! Yeah, obviously that’s how narcissists are made 🙄
My ex has all the characteristics of both grandiose and vulnerable and switches on a dime based on what they need at the moment.
@@foxglove589by convincing you that you have a problem without addressing the Narcissist has a bigger one and is eating from the psychiatrist medicine cabinet. Not the NARC, THEY TELL MEDICINE THAT YOU ARE THE PILL 💊.
NARC COULD BE THE ADDITIONAL BACKUP TRADITIONAL NOW, THE SUPPRESSION OF OUR CHILDREN INSIDE US TOLD QUIET... ONLY ONE, 1, ONE SIDE CAN BE VALIDATED. POSSIBLY THE ONE PAYING THE PSYCHIATRIST?! KEN?!😂
Dr. Ramini and Melba Denny plus the eye that they talk to.
Psychiatrist, Maybe?!
Doctor's appointment pH D.
You need to check into a mental hospital Dr. Thanks.
Who’s got the hustle? Listening to you makes me feel so smart, like I have secret insider information!❤️
These videos have been helping me so much. Thank you
So so helpful. Thank you again.
Omg I must sound like a complainer because I feel like all I do now is complain about my covert, neglectful, self righteous narcissistic husband! It’s just so shocking to find out after decades of marriage that he never loved ‘me’, it was what I can do for him that he loved.
I have a complainy friend like that who says 'I'm just a more negative person than you" - I've been surprised by how he can have empathy though. When he isn't telling me he doesn't like the gift I brought him because it has food dyes (lol).
Thank you so Much!!! 👍❤❤❤
Thank you Dr. Ramani! You hit a lot of nails on the head for me!
Hey, Doc! I love your videos and am happy that you have fixed the low-volume issue compared to your much older videos! Keep up the great support!
I'm so glad I watched this one today. Thanks again Dr Ramani❤
Agreed. In my own anthropological study, people will & do call another “narcissistic”, quite often. Because at this time, many people are adopting this uncommon knowledge about psychology as a “defense mechanism”. But over time- a quick time, actually- People will begin to “adapt” to psychological knowledge & understand it a bit more, now. So, it helps to “educate” another or people will just continue to fear what they do not understand and hate what they can’t control. Hence the defense mechanism, I’ve explained earlier in this comment. Now, I am still admirable about your education. because you’re education gives you ability to educate another. Since I’ve always said, “if people think the world is stupid, then education can help relieve that”, in many ways.
Kimy, be happy that Doc. R is here, some of the so called experts on here make people scared and passive aggressive against everyone..at least there's a few on here that want mental health in the world instead of "everyone's a narcissist" and fear minds...
Have a good day..
2:24 Does anyone else feel that instinctual sense of anger from past memory when Dr. Ramani perfectly imitates a classic narcissist? The impersonations are so good 😂 Seeing how they can just be impersonated really reveals how one dimensional narcissists often are.
I was one of those complainers until I started antidepressants. The suffering is real, or at least it seems like it. If you're a little too cold, you think you're freezing to death. When you're a little bit hungry, you might as well be starving to death. You just can't take adversity, even if you know you're overreacting. Life just seems like hell. So....a complainer can have multiple reasons for griping. A vulnerable narcissist is all about punishing people.
My ex is a malignant narcissist and he is the biggest complainer I know. He complains about everything all the time.
Thank you so much Doc ❤
this is my dad, vulnerable and definitely chronically malcontent, and mum turns out to be covert, both prone to raging. :(
Hey 👋🏻
Hi 👋
This new name of vulnerable narcissist instead of covert confuses people. It sounds as though they are vulnerable in a way that deserves the help of others, when that’s the last thing we should do. Covert is exact. They do their abuse behind closed doors. People who don’t understand narcissism at least understand what covert is. It’s hard enough explaining this shit to people. 😔
I think one of the main differences is that a narc will deliberately cause harm in someway - if you notice a pattern of harm, then it's a narc you're dealing with. It also depends on what the person is complaining about, too because there are lots of things that happen to you that it's understandable to complain about. A really negative person will find something to complain about even if it's something trivial.
very interesting details
Ending was cute Dr.Ramani 😍
My husband to a T, vulnerable narcissist. He has no clue how abrasive he lands on me or others. Sometimes though he actually just vulnerable and sweet, then he quickly reverts like a flash thunderstorm.
Back in 2002, I took my wife on a nice trip to Paris (including First Class airline seats) for our 10th wedding anniversary. She spent the entire week complaining constantly. She is now my ex-wife for the past 7 years. Although I am “no contact” with her, rumor has it that she is still an unhappy and bitter complainer… never satisfied with anything. So pathetic.
My vulnerable narcissist complains to manipulate. She wants to be the center of attention and others to do stuff for her.
My children tell me I complain all the time. I ask, beg, and plead for them to clean up after themselves. To do their chores without me asking. Is it wrong to want to live in a clean home? I'm not asking for perfection or to live in a spotless home.
there is one vidoe you got me educated on on NPD . when i check the dating app i can see the pictures of who and is not NPD. thank you Dr. R. this ssved my life. thanl you for helping the world including me also.
Yep I noticed this depression in them. It seems we’re the cure for their depression. If we clean up the mess of their complaint, then we tidy up their depression in the moment.
You got me recalling someone whom I always describe as "having a chip on his shoulder".
Another good quality 😢.
Years ago I was working as a Quality Control inspector and I got along fairly well with my coworkers. A couple of my coworkers were around my age and we would sometimes get together after work as friends may do. They were subtle chronic complainers. At first I was intrigued by the silliness of their complaints and yet I started the same behavior. It was not a hard thing for me to pick up because my job alone required me to look for what is "wrong" in the product being produced. It took time to get out of that mindset because I had been a very positive person. I am normalized now pretty much but I can look back and realize that negativity and complaining can become a very ugly habit that needs to be broken no matter how long it takes to break it.
Narcissist complainers also gaslight and lie about what they are complaining about
If you don't have kids ,, run get out ASAP, get therapy ASAP, i have two kids ,, i would leave asap but it breaks my heart so if your reading this and dont have kids with them, run , get out , all the problems you may think u have is never going to be anywhere as close to the ones with the narcissist especially a malignant narcissist, i could sit here day and night telling you what they do and maybe you wont believe me because your like me ,,(we wouldn't do that ) ,, bottom line no one deserves to be gaslighted, betrayed, abused etc etc constant reactive situations, and more and more ,, they dont derserve your time !! Follow needs ,,work on your needs,, get therapy asap,, wants are irrelevant,, love is everything,, they cannot and will not love ,, only love themselves!!
Ah man...talk about hell on earth...
Let's add philosophy/sociology/cultural studies... :)
In Poland, almost everything needs to be changed - what is happening is socially unacceptable (it harms people). "Social pathology" rationalizes its ignorance/ heresy, and the intention of action is ONLY to maintain positions, i.e. money /prestige, i.e. "very low moral motives" (which is done at the expense of people).
And all this was created by extreme conformism (post-communism/Homo Sovieticus).
So - context is the key.
*The difference is visible in personality ;)
*Batman is a joyful and positive person :D
Totally my mom !! 😫
Simetimesc I feel like I am my narcissistic mom and grandma made over. All I do is complain and I know I am just repeating their horrible toxicity. Even though I am very mindful of it, it is very hard to stop the behavior because it’s the only way I know how to interact with people because that was all I knew growing up.
I don't know if I'm dumb or what but I'm getting mixed messages from doctor Ramani in regards to this subject. I watch her every day, every single interview she does and from what I remember she has contradicted herself in this video.
Heres what I remember:
I remember her saying the anecdote of her telling her friend over and over about a narcissitic relationship she was in, "complaining about it". She asked her friend "Arent you sick of hearing about this?" and she said her friend said, "no, because one day you will not need to talk about this anymore and that'll be the end of that." (or something along those lines).
On multuple interviews where the interviewer is self-conscious that they "talked about it too much" Dr, Ramani reassured them by saying, "It's okay that your instinct was to talk about it and therefore seek help, be heard. That's a good thing, rather than do the opposite and bottle it all up and not seek help, not speak about it."
Some of us have MULTIPLE narcissitic relationships, since birth. What are we supposed to do?
I'm confused here. Which advice do I follow?
I complain about my narcissitic relationships a lot, and I'm always sick as a consequence, and complain about that as well. Part of healing for me has been to be okay taking up space in this world. "Those who mind dont matter, and those who matter won't mind", approach.
The level of complaining, holding court and blaming is a heavy burden which is why I spend so much time at the gym. It's very hard to live with this kind of person.
Do you have any suggestions of groups that will help an abused person who is abused by that which is "unseen". They keep the victim barely alive but burned/beatened. Where do you suggest the victim goes to heal, perhaps as far as international, to get outside the reach of the controllers?
Learning about psychological differences is key if you really want to get to know yourself and to get to know others. Then you can start to see how you fit in better, and how you can be happier by that knowledge. Because happiness quite frankly, rocks. Not happiness without emotional sobriety mind you, which can be delusion, just happiness by sheer willingness to learn and to grow. Reality, for better or for worse, with all the pain that comes through honesty in dealing with it, is not only the only game in town but interestingly enough the best game in town. The question is can you handle it! If you can't, find out how you can through therapy and/or through self-discovery. #Who am I?
Answers: pathology and intent.
What's the difference between someone who truly had their ass handed to them with chronic trauma and a vulnerable narcissist and a complainer?
This is very interesting. I'd conjecture that there is a significant proportion of 'vulnerables' who are the offspring of more grandiose/malignant narcissists; because they inherit and/or learn some narcissistic traits or behaviors but at the same their trauma inhibits and stunts the development of those traits/behaviors as much as it does everything else...
in effect, then, one can easily become a quasi-narcissistic personality but without any of the confidence or self-assurance
This is a really important topic because the heavily covert acting narcissistic types aren't as easy to spot... ESPECIALLY when they're wearing their heavily sanitized public 🎭!Even the most overt acting loudmouth will typically fall back into more covert behavior in public.
That sense of being chronicly aggrieved and complaining about rather petty things as if they are a major disaster is one of the signs of vulnerable narcissist. And I don't mean when I go on a rant Victor Meldrew style about the audacity of people who sneak their rubbish into one's bins under the cover of darkness because that is perfectly understandable. 😅😂
Thanks for all the insight that are so much of a help for so many.
Got a question.
Does a vulnerable narc classify under one of the 4 main categories of overt, covert, malignant and communal narcissism or is it a category of its own?
Feels like it can be categorised under covert narcissism at least.
❤ older models and algorithms had alot less problems with corruption and ability to clean 😊 sucha a compliment
I oscillate between complaining about my nex or not wanting to be a bother to people because the shoe of being complained qt all the time ive worn a plenty understand that it can be frustrating and exaughsting.
Telling the difference thank you❤
3rd,15 June 2024
Can someone who has many narcissistic traits, completely change over the period of a year? He claims he's now an Empath, that he feels everything now and cries often.... Is this just another narcissistic game?
Yeah no you deffo gotta tread carefully there, for sure!
There is a small chance they actually did, can't write that possibility off. I suppose you gotta ask yourself constantly "what are they trying to get out of this crying/interaction, if anything" and how would it benefit them? and potentially at the cost of others if it is malicious.
If they are a narcissist, the mask will eventually drop I suppose. We can all lose our temper for sure, but it's about observing the aftermath, and looking how they apologise if it's applicable in that scenario. None of us like admitting our own faults/mistakes, but a real person will give some level of response. Typically a narcissist will just try keep justifying their original actions, and probably blaming others for "not getting them".
I will say as a kinda "general rule", no one really should be spouting they're an "empath". I feel they should be phrasing it more as they have "empathy", that's a slightly more healthy description imo. However, constantly saying they're either one of them things can be a warning sign. No one should have to feel the need to constantly describe themselves as something, it eventually comes off as disingenuous.
However, I will say I have seen a tiny few people seemingly educate themselves on narcissism, and kinda use that to enable their actions further. To outsiders they appear chill, open-minded, easy-going, and they'll often keep making a point of this. However in reality, when you try to actually have a healthy conversation or debate with them etc. they somehow manage to have a defence mechanism for everyone of their own weak points. To which they then down play narcissism as a whole, making you look like the bad guy, whilst those unaware around them indirectly reinforce their behaviour. It can be very frustrating to deal with these people, and telling others they are narcissistic can actually backfire. I find it's best to simply not give these people energy to begin with.
In traffic, as a slow driver, I can still be hair-triggered upset. But I have another voice in me which I try to inject right after the initial spark of anger. And that helps. But I’m vulnerable - ha!
Ugh. By nature always look for the good, find hope. But in extended period on life jus keeps taking a p!$$. Feels like all I do is complain 💔 Ive turned into a diff oersont
Uh oh! That sounds like me.
I’m divorced and when I have confronted my mother she tells me that I’m jealous of her because she has a partner
I am defitinitely a downer who looks depressed a lot. And I know how it sounds to others. I struggle to see a bright side and I get it from my father. But I have loved someone who matches the other traits of NP type. I had to acknowledge that.
I think it's healthy to complain a little bit, but you need to know the limits. The most problematic thing for me personally is when people (especially vulnerable narcissists, but some complainers also show this tendency too) complain for the sake of complaing only and making drama around them. I'm a solution orientated type and when someone complains like "uhhh nooo, I don't know what to do" I usually offer multiple solutions. It's quite annoying (but also makes the "goal" of comlaining quite transparent immidiately) when the complainer ignores and dismiss your advice and keeps complaing.
Dr Ramani,
Recently got orange tinted prescription glasses.
OMG, anxiety went down and mood improved.
Rose-coloured glasses.
I was making a diary entry about how great they were and how having them earlier might have saved a lot of people a lot of grief.
Shortly after the gravity of those words hit and I was bauling for about half hour afterwards.
There's scientific literature that supports why blocking out the blue light helps.
Moral of this comment - not sure.
Though I am curious as to such tinted lenses as part of a mental health first aid kit would go.
Would it help calm a narcissist?
Would it help during a therapy session for people processing their trauma?
I'm just glad to have come across something that helps calm me down
Blue light promotes alertness and vigilance.
I'm already hyperalert and hypervigilant.
Maybe that's why the red/orange coloured glasses are helping me.
Maybe it might be helpful to others
Oh, yippee, another defining label for my ex-. LOL What I see as a distinguishing characteristic is entitlement. A complainer may bitch and moan about everything, but doesn't necessarily feel like they're *entitled* to better. And they're possibly able to appreciate the discomfort of others. Not so the VN. They feel singled out because it rained on their golf day or the restaurant doesn't take reservations and so they have to wait. It's a personal affront as opposed to an inconvenience that's easily remedied. Add to that the element of envy ("I wrote a better piece of software, why is his successful and not mine?")
Another component that I've seen consistently in the Ns I've known is their glee at someone else's loss. Without exception. They don't laugh at funny jokes, but at jokes or events where someone suffers loss, embarrassment, injury or disappointment, they absolutely wet themselves laughing - no lie - Every. Single. Time. It's become a litmus test for me.
🌷
06:01 for everyone asking themselves if they are narcissistic if they complain alot.
Complaining is absolutely human and most of us do it, but that on itself is not an indicator of you being a narcissist.
The parent theory is very intresting. I tend to complain alot, and ym parents did the same.
Maybe it is some sort of adaptation
What is the key difference between being rude and unpleasant and being narcissistic?
I'm not sure on exact definitions, but personally I'd separate them quickly like so:
Rude - Making a point of and/or judging someone for who they are, like saying something which is specifically related/negative towards that person.
Unpleasant - Doesn't necessarily have to focus on one person or a specific group of people. It's more something you've said in general, and I feel the overarching theme is just saying something which makes someone else feel uncomfortable.
Narcissistic - Idk really how to sum it up quickly, it's kind of a mix of a few things.
Like for example, a narcissist could give a back-handed compliment which could be rude, or when a narcissist boasts about the "stuff they've achieved" which could be unpleasant to hear? but I suppose it's only more so unpleasant when you know the patterns of a narc. If you don't know(and I've been here myself) you can't really put your finger on it, you just kinda know this person loves talking about themself.
Then again someone talking about themself a lot, they still might not be a full blown narcissist. They could have just escaped one and are getting used to knowing the balance of validation from others again, as we all need a little bit, but not too much. Some are starved of validation for years and gotta be careful not to go from one extreme to the other 😅
Grandiose often workaholics
2:44 sounding too much like my mother Dr Ramani 😅
1:20....
Vulnerable Narcissist Traits v/s Grandiose
I've always had this fear that I am a vulnerable narcissist... but maybe I am more of a complainer? I'm sure it's not as black and white as that though.