Thanks for your skepticism and translation of academic phrases. And your overall view that hypotheses are made to be disproved. I appreciate your being a generalist. Knowing something about a lot of things allows for a broader view.
I was stationed in Barstow, CA, Mojave Deseert at the USMC Supply Center in 1971 and would ride my motorbike in the desert every couple of weekends. On one expedition I stumbled upon Leaky's dig near Yermo, CA. It consisted of a trench cut into an alluvial fan above a dry lake bed. The trench ran into the slanting alluvium for about 50', then took a dog leg left for about 20'. The archaeologist working there was generous with her time and showed me their operation, collection of tool artifacts and what they thought was a fire pit, a small circle of stones with fire evidence on their inside faces at the far end of the trench. Leaky himself had directed the dig into the dogleg left. Who knows what prompted the change in trench direction, but it landed them on a camp fire that they dated at 26,000 years. The lady archaeologist said that this was a heresy, that the evidence showed humans in North America before the so-called Bering Straight migration route had swung into action. I'm wondering how Richard Firestone's Younger Dryas meteor impact theory plays into evidence for the disappearance of Clovis cultures and North American megafauna. Do any of the sites mentioned in the video have a "black mat" layer above the Clovis and megafauna layers?
Indeed. His protegees, David Talbott, Dwardu Cardona and Ev Cochrane took the mythical record to a new level and began the present Electric Universe paradigm shift.
I had the same questions. I was a Randall Carlson fan for a few years upon finding his early stuff on TH-cam. He seems to be slip sliding lately but he was the first one I heard talking about the Black Mat, it’s possible causes, and possibly tying it to megafauna extinctions, Clovis timelines, Younger Dryas climate event / time frame all in the same 1 hour talk. Nick Zentner makes a pretty good case for at least some of the ice age floods being several thousand years older than any of the above, which leaves Randall on shaky ground trying to tie an impact hypothesis to Younger Dryas & floods. But I still give him credit for asking good questions and being the first I heard to proudly proclaim himself a “ generalist”. But that Black Mat is got to be critical! Someone in this video (or a similar earlier one by same guy) refers to a “sterile zone” I believe above the Clovis layer. The Archeologist seemed to totally disregard the significance of the so called “sterile zone” and why would’t they, it’s sterile, and they are only interested in human junk. To me that’s a classic case of ignoring the so called 800 pound gorilla in the room. I’ve lost so much respect for “Science” because it’s disciples seem to disregard & dismiss things that are more than a fraction of inch outside the little box they are studying in. This guy also claims the generalist title and I expect more from him than disregarding those obvious (catastrophic???) event layers in the excavations. Those events need dating, explanations, and possible effects on life.
Finally!! Someone with a lot of education and common sense. How doesn’t this video have more likes or shares?Thank you for your vast knowledge and effort. I have to get your video to Jimmy Corsetti of Bright Insight. I think he’d love it
Cool to hear a story even older than the Klamath’s. Our Osage tribe has one of those tantalizing hints, too. When circus elephants were first brought to our reservation, the people recognized them as the animals in our history known as Ni-ta, which literally means Water Meat, just like deer = Ta and bison is Ta Tonga, Big Meat. Fascinating stuff to think about.
Interesting how the word modifying meat can precede or follow the noun. What's the rule? Single syllable adjective precedes the noun? Two syllable Tonga follows the noun? (Ta meat)
In the beginning this gentleman described himself as an idiot. This man would need an airplane, a train, a bus and a taxi just to get near the city limits of idiocy. He is very humble. Also, those "clovis points and fishtail points" look more like art than everyday tools. The symmetry was amazing. I mean if i was an early human living in a cave and had not eaten in a couple of days, i do not think i would have paid as much attention to detail in the tools i used. I use hand tools to make my living. Also i live in a constructed habitat. A manufactured cave. If i wake up in the morning and my tools are not optimal i will improvise. Perhaps i have a unique perspective. I wonder if their is any money in that? That is how you can tell i am a modern human. Excellent video
i doubt anyone was hungry. small game is very abundant, and human population might have been sparse. there would be an incredible amount of food and people with nothing but time on their hands.
From my research about the Solutrean i would say the same thing actually. It's a very deliberate choice a hunter-gatherer makes to invest so much time in all that retouching and creating those beautiful points. It's part of their identity that other Europeans did not choose. Survival means being very efficient with the time you have to spend and Solutreans made very little art because they spent that time knapping. Investing yourself in that elaborate technology has enormous value. People were re-using those points still thousands of years later whenever they could. Magdalenians actually hunted with them and broke them in the process. Then still they wore them as ornaments. That is how fond those people were of this technology. They were capable of doing it themselves but they did not even consider doing so for practical purposes. But they loved it nonetheless....!
This is first rate science. Absolutely first rate. I had to watch it twice. Would like to watch it again sometime. Thanks for sharing your research and conclusions.
One important quibble: J. D. Figgins didn't "find" the Folsom site in 1927. George McJunkin, a black cowboy, found the site in 1908. He recognized that the bison bones there were not from an extant species and spent years trying to convince scientists and experts to come check it out. Figgins only learned of the site in 1926, and it was because a friend of a friend of McJunkin approached him at the Colorado Museum of Natural History and actually brought him some of the bones from the Folsom Site. Then Figgins realized it was an important find and went to excavate it. But credit where credit is due, Figgins did put the site on the international stage.
Language recognizably changes within less than a generation. Try picking up your teen’s latest lingo to make them cringe. Try the same with grandchildren
And Thanks to You for sharing the name- & stallworth efforts of George McGunkin -- who's discovery was doubtlessly Dismissed for 18 years Mainly Because he had 'Excessively Melanic Skin'...
Excellent talk! Loved it! I agree in "liking the way you think,"...as well as explaining in such a way, that even I can follow in this fascinating topic! Thank you!
What a great, clearly understandable lecture! Very much appreciate your intellectual insight on currently "developing" sciences like DNA relationships among various human groups. Most of all, I appreciate your intellectual honesty! Your humor and enthusiasm about the Gault site are noted, and it's ok to be "biased", as long as we acknowledge it! Thanks for putting this lecture on You Tube!
Bravo! I am so sick of archaeologists and their egos and I am so blessed to see somebody just using scientific proof! This was a fantastic video! Once again Bravo
Do you have a special breed of archaeologists over there then? I read a lot of comments from folk who disagree with their ideas or claim that x denies new info but never hear from archaeologists themselves. Trouble is when it comes to prehistory especially motives and reasons for doing things, like heave great lumps of rock round the landscape to make tombs or whatever no one knows. Each generation pops up with its own ideas.
@@helenamcginty4920 Yes, American archaeologists are, as a rule, a national disgrace. Some still to this day trot out the thoroughly demolished "construction equipment" explanation for the Cerutti Mastodon femur heads they insist were shifted underground, and together, several yards away from the rest of the femurs, without disturbing the solid sandstone all were embedded in. And they still insist Clovis people wiped out 30+ genera (and themselves) all at a shot in 12,800 BP.
People expecting scientific proof does not equal ego. If you're equating the antiquarians and archaeologists of the past to modern archaeology well then you're exceptionally uninformed.
Also consider that 20,000 years ago, when the ice stood high, the seas stood very low. There were a lot more islands above the water -- in both the Pacific and the Atlantic -- than there are today. Humans could have used simple dugout canoes to island-hop (or coast-hug) from Europe or Asia to the Americas. And, once here, they could have wandered anywhere in a few thousand years.
Exactly but most academics only except the land bridge theory. And dismiss the growing amount of evidence that points to other pathways. For example the ancient sites have a major difference in location. The east coast has many ancient peoples sites, very dense. Almost 20+/- to 1 compared to the more westward you go. No Clovis points have been found in Alaska or Siberia which there should be since they say that’s where they came from. But they are found almost everywhere on the east coast from Maine to Florida. The oldest sites are submerged where the ancient shoreline used to be and where River deltas met The Atlantic. The knife point found by dragger fisherman in 200ft of water 60 miles off the coast of Maryland. It was imbedded in a mammoth bone but it means nothing they say.
@@judd0112: It's also interesting that the oldest known "Clovis" type spear-points were found in northwestern Europe, and attributed to the Solutrean people.
Very nice having a general overview of history including DNA as well as mentioning thousands of archeology sites still under investigation. That being an "idiot" shows there is enough information we have to surmise there is a lot more we don't know about. My family collected arrowheads for years from our corn fields showing rough quartz points to fine samples made of flint. There are thousands more Native American sites just in Virginia river valleys yet to be discovered. As a boy in the 1930s Dad saw clay pots washed out of river banks, but since they weren't as cool as arrowheads he ignored them. We found lots of pot shards in our fields obviously from a settlement, but never dug for intact ones. For those of you wondering I've never met a farmer who wanted an archeology dig in the middle of their crop fields.
Hey, I enjoyed your presentation very much. Ever since I first heard and read Knut Fladmark's 'Coastal Hypothesis', some 45 years ago (while an Anthropology major, at App. State Univ.), I've always thought it made (a lot!) more sense than the 'Ice Free Corridor'. Anyway, perhaps now, Fladmark will get his much deserved (over)due.
Thanks for the 'thumbs-up'. BTW, it blows my mind how some were (still are?) skeptical about Monte Vedre's chronology; I mean, you've got the organic remains of an (obviously) man-made structure, with a mammoth tooth (used as a core) inside. How much more can one ask for?!
Hey, thanks (again). One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how science can be so much like religion, w/respect to entrenched hypotheses and theories, that mirror the dogma and orthodoxy of the latter. Have a good one. Later... .
@@williamradisch340 Clovis First should have died in the 90s. Monte Verde wasn't the first straw, but it should have been the last. Yet, I've read where Dillehay's dean faced demands that he be fired, Dillehay was accused of fraud, planting evidence, etc.
At 27:15, this idea of a process rather than an event seems very in line with the history. When I visited the museum in Anchorage last year (worth visiting, huge number of artifacts and traditional crafts etc) there was an account from a tribe that lived on the coast near the Bering Strait that the tribes in Siberia would traditionally cross (every year, if I remember right) and there would be a scuffle. I take this as a point of evidence that this process continued without end into recent history.
Yes, exactly. Some 30 years ago I saw an interview with an Alaskan Native that complained about the border, because of half of their tribe living on the Russian side. And there also was another documentary on Arctic hunters and they not only had the Bering-strait-whalers, but they introduced ice-hunting-practices that convinced me that a solid sea-ice is no hindrance, but works as a bridge. The earliest crossings might even have happened at the height of the last ice-age by seal-hunters. The next that came were coast-paddlers, going after fishes and whales. Sorrily the coastline was 130m deeper then, and those hunting-camps will be close to impossible to find. The rich volcanic waters of the Aleutes almost beg for fishing-trips. I read the finds on the Aleutes are said to be Epi-Gravettien and 7000 BCE ... and there is a dating issue. 7000 years is regarded as Mesolithic. I prefer doing 'Human'-measure-reconing. A human walks 4-5km per hour, let's say, 'our' human is lazy and has a kid to drag along, so it will be only 3km/h. Historical summer-working time is 16h/day. But those are prehistoric hunters and probably move only 8 hours a day to meet a neighbouring group to hunt or trade with. If you try to stay in the same climate-zone and decide to walk from the Bretagne to the Bering-Strait, it's about 13.000 km. It would take you some 550 days. Of course our hypothetical human isn't going to walk all the way. (Though I bet there even then were some weirdos like the Breton, that needed 2 years). But our human will only be going to a hunting-party with a neighbouring group. And there, as a present, he brings some of his hunting spears with the new tip-shape or the new knife-shape he made up. Let's say, it takes the neighbouring group for about a year to realize: 'Yeah, that new shape and fixing is better, we should do that, too', and tell that to their eastern neighbours, perhaps gifting them a set of their new produce in turn, and those need another year to adopt the new fashion... let's be conservative and lazy: even then the new spear-fashion will need 600, perhaps 700 years to travel from the Atlantic all across the good hunting-grounds of the steppe and to end up on the pacific coast. It would mean, that some new fashion that was invented during a hunting party in the summer of 20.000 BC on the Atlantic Coast and turned Gravettien into Epi-gravettien is - even with lazy and conservative exchangers - known at the Pacific Coast at least by 19.300. Especially if it is some representative gift to a clan-boss. Every other Clan boss will want something similar.
The "broad view" of the evidence, by an idiot! Loved it! That kind of humility is sorely needed amoung the specialists. Thank you Dr. Wernecke. You present a informative and persuasive arguement.
Thank you so much. One of the best presentations dealing with this most important subject. Archeology as a discipline is loaded with bias and self interest. Science as a process should but is not always a guiding principle.
Have been studying geology as a novice for a few years, and Archeological sites a few years less. Got into it heavier during Covid. This has been a super interesting lecture, great stuff.
Go Horns! 🤘 Being a longhorn myself, (geographer that should have also gotten a geology and archeology degree,) your presentation, research, and straight up horse-sense reasoning sure makes this Texan proud! On my short list is a visit to the archeology department, maybe a chat with you, and definitely lots of reading on the Gault site!!
I dug 75 feet into the texas ground, a shear cliff to see the past and the tools, the ornamented aspects of it are undeniably human or intelligently made, but better still, I would swear it is a geopolymer rather than just stone. I am in Luling, Texas areas on the shores of the San Marcos on a high knoll where I dug to the giant rocks with carving on the top, and tools, proof of a civiliastion but also, evidence of a serious burn, meteor or solar flare that melted some things, burned one half of rocks, not the others, and meteorites on the property. These could be pre-clovis but regardless, symbol of birds, of turtles. Something was here smarter than the average bear.
Dr. Clark Wernecke is a wonderful presenter. I greatly appreciate his portion on Skepticism, b. at 52:12. The scientific process and the importance of evidence is expressed throughout. Well done.
I am following closely. I have also been looking at a site here in San antonio studying stratigraphy and I have noticed there seems to be a ton of ground stone debitage washing out with the rains
"Trust the Science" means that Skepticism is not allowed. I am a novice and not a scientist, and have always thought that the scientific consensus about when people came to North America and that they only came from Asia is flawed. This is the best information I have seen to show that the consensus is wrong and that all this other evidence needs to be included versus being rejected because it doesn't fit the current models.
Yeea man , I've been trying to Get this kind of stuff across to many in my community . That we as a people still don't know enuff to say something is a fact ,thank you 🎉😊
fun and interesting , you're not an idiot, , lots of good info some of which have heard before. Thanks for sharing your study with us. I always figured people inter breed so we are all a mixed bag..I did hear that languages evolve and based on the number of similar languages in North America that we have been on the continent something like 20,000 years. What about the Reed boats found on the west coast SF bay area in the bay and also in Africa? Have you read contiki about that( guy made boat and went from Africa to coast of South America successfully.?
We have located one of the submerged settlement sites off of the coast of North America. We have gps coordinates. It’s Kind of amazing. We hope a professor would contact us.
Hello interesting group and discussions here. Will you ever be addressing the so-called Younger Dryas theory, and how a cataclysm from around 11,000 years ago could coincide with "pre-historic" mysteries ; principally regarding the construction of megalithic sites in many parts of the world?
A key comment is that the majority of coastal artifacts prior to 13,000 years ago are 300 ft below the current sea level. And though there were certainly glacial areas which extended to the shore line, most glaciation leaves lots of places for a kayak or boat to put to shore along the pacific coast.
The reason 12,500 BC is so key and throughout the video is because all the large mega fauna, everything over the size of a groundhog died off, in one strike, about 14,500 years ago when a cataclysmic event took place during what is called the Younger Dryas. It seems the north American ice age was letting up and the ice was starting to recede, when either a comet or an asteroid came in and air burst, likely over the northwestern US/Canadian border, give or take. The asteroid (if that's what it was) broke up and hit the ice in different places, causing massive ice breaks that literally slid down the northwest of the US, carving out Utah and the ravaged canyons and causes floods, fires, and most likely blew over trees for 1000 miles. Whatever the exact details, it happened at at once, and there is evidence of the destruction in many sites all over. Before that point, there were fossils of mammoths, saber tooth tigers, ect. After: NOTHING. NADA. Never again. Gone. So ANY culture that was there, even villages of 1000's, (think native Americans in teepees or long houses) if they ever existed, would have been completely wiped out. During the resulting famine, almost without exception, humans would have died out in North America, Canada, and most everything except the higher elevations. So they were not covered by sand, mud or dirt, but completely destroyed by ravaging ice and timber flows as the land was completely ravaged. We all know that ANY fossils are rare, but people and whatever they owned would have been crushed and ground to gravel and burning under landslides and completely lost. But, due to the ice sheet, there is no crater to point to. It's not thought that parts of the asteroid also hit the ocean, including the Atlantic, causing massive floods that inundated coastlines all over. The dates would line up with global histories talking about a flood that wiped out all but a few people. Humm, a great flood? That sounds familiar. It's hard for archaeologists and even harder for geologists to change, but the evidence is starting to add up.
Those similar points...the Meadowcroft and the 18,000 year old shorline ones look like someone sat down and copied one from the other--the details are incredibly close to identical. That's mind-blowing. It's like maybe they were made by the same person, but moved across the area by trade. I dunno if they're at all the same age, but I'll be damned if they aren't. Otherwise, how did they manage to be so similar? I've got to say this is one of the best talks I've run across on this subject. I couldn't tell you what I based my view on, but as a kid in the sixties and seventies, I read about the Clovis and Folsom points and the dating...but something convinced me that, eventually, evidence would show up indicating human presence in the Americas, especially North America, twenty-some thousands of years ago. It's a nice feeling, thinking something seemed likely, and then evidence showing up while I'm still around to appreciate it. It does seem rather obvious that humans have been traveling great distances by boat for a very, very long time. I always thought the Bering land bridge theory didn't quite fit the evidence; now I see that was right, too.
Bravo! Great synopsis of the current state of paleoarchaeology in North America. And a great delivery... Thank you to Dr. Wernicke and to the Archaeological Conservancy for the presentation.
This was like a breath of fresh air with what I have found and thought through, this was a very well done video. I've been and finding artifacts and fossils since I was a kid and even the occasional midden pile and camps (pottery, armadillo bones, charcoal, bones, flint, tools and even a camp that has flint and anglo items as if they were stolen etc). It would be great to get in contact with someone to look at my collection and I could even show obvious camp sites i have found through out my life, from North lousisna through Texas to San Luis Potosi Mexico. One of which has mammoth orbital bone that is fossilized with carbon on it (char) AND marks, yes in perfect environment bones can fossilize quicker. (pottery, armadillo bones, charcoal, bones, flint, tools etc)
Clark Wernecke states something to the effect of: the narrative was controlled by the people who controlled the the journals and the jobs. Well, not much have changed is science. This is not sour grapes, I found myself on the influential and employed side of this line.
Why couldn't people just always have been here.. I also have a lot of artifacts that I have found in the deep water in the lower Chesapeake bay.. small & large
There could have been but no one has found the evidence. We know what we have evidence to support and nothing more. No human evidence has been found older than around 25 or 30 thousand years. If you don’t have evidence then you are just making things up.
There are lots of reasons you either don't or can't dig deeper. One of the most major in the US is NAGPRA. Basically as soon as any human remains are found all sorts of stuff comes into play such as finding the tribal group who has the closest relationship to the remains. That opens the flood gates as to what does the closest relationship mean? Cultural, locational, genetic? So many different variables. So let's say we are digging up the foundation of a settlement and a culture that wasn't the first to settle there has a practice of burying the dead under the family home, or keeps the skull as an heirloom, similar to the skull cults found in the Middle East 8-10kya, everything stops. And then, if the group determined to be the closest relative group decides the remains are not to be moved, everything stops or then goes to the courts. Inlf the courts side with the remains being undisturbed, that's it. Or if the site was being dug for a commercial reason, CRM is only going to test site as far down as is required per construction code. After that you have to wait until that construction is torn down for something larger before deeper digging will occur, similar to what happened in NYC. This is just one of the many reasons that you sometimes just can't "dig deeper." It's not some conspiracy as much as it is religion, politics, and culture.
As a "Amateur " Historian interested in anything historic that from today to the big bang I found this very interesting . Also as I live in England. The question I have is do we know the population sizes of the various groups of people moving from Asia to America before say 15,000 years ago ? Is there any way that can be researched?
I don't think that is possible at all no.....from what i understand the sites found on the west coast from Alaska down to the lower states are pretty small though. They don't find enormous amounts of stuff like they do at Gault or elsewhere. That probably means small groups originally but who knows....
I live about 8 miles from the two Kenosha County sites. The Hiebor mammoth is on display at the Milwaukee Public Museum. The Scheaffer Mammoth in the Kenosha Public Museum.
I doubt that much of North America would be recognizable only 10,000 years ago, and its component parts were far from their current locations, 50,000 years ago, or more. Earth is not a static construct whizzing through space, four billion years of looking the same as it does today. I doubt anything would be recognizable, one million years ago, yet geologists and archaeologists commonly use modern tropes. On your map of Clovis points, the northern distribution creates a line eerily reminiscent of the "southern" edge of the ONAC, the Old North American Craton, a chunk of original crust. This suggests that when those Clovis Points were deposited, that piece of plate, from the border between KY and TN, down to the line below the Caymans, was someplace else entirely. Explaining why the points are where they are found, so many years later, is problematic. We have no narratives to illuminate those distant lives. Judging from the lore handed down to us, by our distant ancestors in a cosmic game of "Telephone", events and occurrences, witnessed by the people of the time.
I've still got a lot of avocado in my house. My ancestors who were still alive when I was a child told me that we were always here. Then she told me that Sinawave gave a bag of sticks to Coyote, and told Coyote not to open it. But Coyote couldn't help wanting to take a peek to see what was in there, so he loosened the strings which held the bag shut, and in there were many sticks of four different colours in there. He opened to bag to see the sticks better, but then he sneezed and all the sticks fell out of the bag. As soon as the sticks hit the ground, they turned into people, and they all ran off to the four directions, each going toward the direction which corresponded to their colour. The thing is, if I am supposed to believe that story, that means we weren't always here. We were here for a very long time, but not forever. I now look at the evidence, and find it fascinating. Monte Verde... People there over tens of thousands of years. Must have been a good place to stay. Even more so with Huaca Prieta. Those people who made the Clovis points, and also the fish points of South America were really skilled. It's hard to nap any point, but to nap it with that precision is really amazing. No matter what it's position in time was, they still represent really superb craftsmanship. The guys who knocked those out really knew what they were doing. Not that others didn't. It's just that they took the time to make something which was strictly utilitarian in a way that took more work and precision than was necessary to do the job. I don't know that it matters a whole lot what the race of the people were who got here first. We are one species and we tend to separate each other according to some pretty minor differences. If we were birds instead of primates, the difference probably wouldn't be enough to call us a subspecies. The thing that makes any of this interesting is that it shows how our species spread to eventually live on every continent, and most islands of any significance. Some of this spreading was done in historical times, and we know how we got to those places. But our species has been around for quite awhile, and we really don't know yet how a lot of it happened. We may never know it all. Our world has changed so much, and parts which were accessible are no longer accessible, or have been destroyed. There are other problems which are staring us in the face. As the permafrost melts in the areas where people supposedly migrated to here from, we find beautifully preserved animals from far back in time, and we find a whole hoard of bones from animals which were not well preserved, but as of yet, we have not found one hint of human remains. If people here came from there, where are the remains of their ancestors? Even if they were very few and far between, you would think we would have found some evidence by now, but it just isn't there. Why? The area was obviously well stocked with food sources. And with there being so little competition, what made them move out and head to the Americas? We still have a lot to learn and figure out, and it's likely we will never know the whole picture, but it is certainly interesting to learn as much as we can.
You seem to have more dignity than what I've seen about the Smithsonian. The term "Smithsonian Gate," has been well earned. Excellent look into what is currently accepted. Good video, thank you.
The map of North America in the Ice Age had coast lines that were much larger then the ones we have today. Is it possible a lot of the evidence of older cultures got lost after the sea levels rose? People today tend to live closer to the sea and populations thin out as you move inland.
Yes. I have heard about several archeological finds in the ocean near the outlet of the Chesapeake Bay. I'm sorry I don't have any more details than that.
Yes very possible.... the thing most people don't realize or account for is that during the ice age, and coming out of it. the sea levels were much lower maybe a third less water in the ocean as so much of the water was contained in the ice. I've seen theories wich put a land bridge across the north Atlanta with the lower water and I believe in the time of peleg when the eart broke apart much was changing.
That’s exactly correct. The oldest ancient American sites are submerged. And artifacts have been recovered from fishermen’s nets. My favorite one is the fishermen who was dragging his nets for bottom fish 60 miles off the coast of Maryland and in his haul ha had a big hunk of something. After cleaning it off it was if I remember correctly a mammoth clavicle(shoulder) with a spear point imbedded in it. It’s currently in a museum in Maryland I believe. The archeologists who get the financial backing and the technological expertise to excavate the areas offshore will undoubtedly be the next rockstar or Indians Jones and i hope that im around to see it. Instead of donating millions to some nonsense whatever it should be invested in this type of underwater archaeology
I live in the BBNP area of Texas and have found many uniface points. As you would know, the technological differences between uniface and biface points and tools are parallel to that of prop and jet engine aircraft. I believe these uniface points are 20-25,000 years old.
The reality that most academics even consider, let alone are self censoring from even hypothesizing an Atlantic migration route due to fear of cultural sensitivities, is so anti scientific, spineless, dishonest and self loathing.
Skepticism is often misunderstood my laymen who don’t study the literature. Skepticism is challenging established dogma vs the support of religious dogma which requires supernatural solutions.
Excellent summation of many types of archaeological evidence. Ancient people have been moving across Northern Eurasia for millenia. When you go back, 20k, the genetic types we associate in Europe or Asia today were different, probably somewhere in between the caucasian and mongolian types today ex. the the Ainu of Japan, a mix of genetics. No doubt people were coming from Asia and Europe with mixing happening for a long time. If European DNA was in the minority, it would be less evident. You don't go far into the Solutrean hypothesis and Dennis Stanford's work. The lithic evidence definitely points towards Europe.
Always an interesting presenter. I feel skepticism is vital to any scientific process, but skepticism needs to be based on science. As an example, skepticism about evolution is not science based and is not helpful. I know I wish someone would just say, the first people arrived in North America on July 23 15,323 BCE, and we could be done with the debate. But alas, science is not that simple
Actually there is scientific evidence of creation if you look at enough science and observable facts. There is also evidence of the global flood if you look at the evidence in the layers of sediment which in many places are tens of meters thick. It's all come down to interpretation of the evidence. Those dinosaur bodies were buried very deep in rapidly accruing sediment so that they did not have time to decompose before being buried deep enough to stop decomposition. So it all comes down to observed facts and interpretation.
They did say that basically they said there was nothing here pre-Clovis. That statement alone defies all scientific theories. To say that’s it no one was here before is totally ridiculous and should never be said by a scientist researching anything
my first thought was maybe that the direction, 14:54, was a instance of backtracking? maybe something in their culture/times inspired a more literal migratory pattern. iirc there was something seasonal like this in a lot of native american societies, maybe carried over from that more ancient endeavor? idk
At 11:30 the depth of the dig site is much more impresive than just reading the numbers. There is just nothing for many feet between the Clovis points and the later points. They moved north with the animals then south when they left with the animals at some point. The Native Americans came back once again, they are still here.
The type site point,in situ, with the bison bones is still on display at the Denver museum of Natural History to this day! Most people walk right by, void of its significance.😊
We also have Rimrock Draw, in SE Oregon, with solid dates at ~18kya. And of course there's the newly confirmed White Sands footprint dates at ~21 to ~23kya. I don't understand why people are not looking at older strata in, e.g., the Portland Basin -- potentially attractive locations just south of the Cordilleran ice sheet, up rivers that might have enticed migrants coming down the coast to venture inland. The Chehalis, a little north of the Columbia, was also perhaps quite attractive, being just south of the Cordilleran. It seems to me that people didn't need to hop along the Aluetians. If you're starting from Kamchatka, you can bump NE along the coast and follow the southern shore of Beringia.
Loved the comparison of refrigerator colors. An observation I want other folks to notice; if you take a map of Mexican Indian languages and overlay a map of the regional reach of various drug gangs there is a lot of similarity. The Sinaloa Cartel speaks a different Indian language (Otomí) than the Zetas (most likely Nahuatl).
Thanks for your skepticism and translation of academic phrases. And your overall view that hypotheses are made to be disproved. I appreciate your being a generalist. Knowing something about a lot of things allows for a broader view.
This presenter was first rate. Immensely enjoyable. Packed with clear information. Thank you.
I was stationed in Barstow, CA, Mojave Deseert at the USMC Supply Center in 1971 and would ride my motorbike in the desert every couple of weekends. On one expedition I stumbled upon Leaky's dig near Yermo, CA. It consisted of a trench cut into an alluvial fan above a dry lake bed. The trench ran into the slanting alluvium for about 50', then took a dog leg left for about 20'. The archaeologist working there was generous with her time and showed me their operation, collection of tool artifacts and what they thought was a fire pit, a small circle of stones with fire evidence on their inside faces at the far end of the trench. Leaky himself had directed the dig into the dogleg left. Who knows what prompted the change in trench direction, but it landed them on a camp fire that they dated at 26,000 years. The lady archaeologist said that this was a heresy, that the evidence showed humans in North America before the so-called Bering Straight migration route had swung into action. I'm wondering how Richard Firestone's Younger Dryas meteor impact theory plays into evidence for the disappearance of Clovis cultures and North American megafauna. Do any of the sites mentioned in the video have a "black mat" layer above the Clovis and megafauna layers?
weren't those artifacts dismissed as geofacts? they have to discredit anything out of the usual dogma...
i believe emanuel velikovksky has a prior claim to credit for catastrophic evolution as a theory; pick and chose your biases.
Indeed. His protegees, David Talbott, Dwardu Cardona and Ev Cochrane took the mythical record to a new level and began the present Electric Universe paradigm shift.
The foot prints at white sands NM, have been dated 22,000 years ago
I had the same questions. I was a Randall Carlson fan for a few years upon finding his early stuff on TH-cam. He seems to be slip sliding lately but he was the first one I heard talking about the Black Mat, it’s possible causes, and possibly tying it to megafauna extinctions, Clovis timelines, Younger Dryas climate event / time frame all in the same 1 hour talk. Nick Zentner makes a pretty good case for at least some of the ice age floods being several thousand years older than any of the above, which leaves Randall on shaky ground trying to tie an impact hypothesis to Younger Dryas & floods. But I still give him credit for asking good questions and being the first I heard to proudly proclaim himself a “ generalist”.
But that Black Mat is got to be critical! Someone in this video (or a similar earlier one by same guy) refers to a “sterile zone” I believe above the Clovis layer. The Archeologist seemed to totally disregard the significance of the so called “sterile zone” and why would’t they, it’s sterile, and they are only interested in human junk. To me that’s a classic case of ignoring the so called 800 pound gorilla in the room. I’ve lost so much respect for “Science” because it’s disciples seem to disregard & dismiss things that are more than a fraction of inch outside the little box they are studying in. This guy also claims the generalist title and I expect more from him than disregarding those obvious (catastrophic???) event layers in the excavations. Those events need dating, explanations, and possible effects on life.
Finally!! Someone with a lot of education and common sense. How doesn’t this video have more likes or shares?Thank you for your vast knowledge and effort. I have to get your video to Jimmy Corsetti of Bright Insight. I think he’d love it
Cool to hear a story even older than the Klamath’s.
Our Osage tribe has one of those tantalizing hints, too. When circus elephants were first brought to our reservation, the people recognized them as the animals in our history known as Ni-ta, which literally means Water Meat, just like deer = Ta and bison is Ta Tonga, Big Meat. Fascinating stuff to think about.
They probably had stories of thier ancestors hunting mammoth’s, I’m imagining.
Amazing thank you
Really interesting, thanks for sharing
Interesting how the word modifying meat can precede or follow the noun. What's the rule? Single syllable adjective precedes the noun? Two syllable Tonga follows the noun? (Ta meat)
In the beginning this gentleman described himself as an idiot. This man would need an airplane, a train, a bus and a taxi just to get near the city limits of idiocy. He is very humble. Also, those "clovis points and fishtail points" look more like art than everyday tools. The symmetry was amazing. I mean if i was an early human living in a cave and had not eaten in a couple of days, i do not think i would have paid as much attention to detail in the tools i used. I use hand tools to make my living. Also i live in a constructed habitat. A manufactured cave. If i wake up in the morning and my tools are not optimal i will improvise. Perhaps i have a unique perspective. I wonder if their is any money in that? That is how you can tell i am a modern human. Excellent video
i doubt anyone was hungry. small game is very abundant, and human population might have been sparse. there would be an incredible amount of food and people with nothing but time on their hands.
From my research about the Solutrean i would say the same thing actually. It's a very deliberate choice a hunter-gatherer makes to invest so much time in all that retouching and creating those beautiful points. It's part of their identity that other Europeans did not choose. Survival means being very efficient with the time you have to spend and Solutreans made very little art because they spent that time knapping. Investing yourself in that elaborate technology has enormous value. People were re-using those points still thousands of years later whenever they could. Magdalenians actually hunted with them and broke them in the process. Then still they wore them as ornaments. That is how fond those people were of this technology. They were capable of doing it themselves but they did not even consider doing so for practical purposes. But they loved it nonetheless....!
@@forestdwellerresearch6593what do you do on rainy days? I tinker.
Greg, are you an electrician? Jw
@@johnrice1943 worse! I am a handyman
Between the comments and first few min of watching I'm impressed and got to watch this. Thanks in advance for putting this up
This is first rate science. Absolutely first rate. I had to watch it twice. Would like to watch it again sometime.
Thanks for sharing your research and conclusions.
Very contextual and well done also extremely informative
One important quibble: J. D. Figgins didn't "find" the Folsom site in 1927. George McJunkin, a black cowboy, found the site in 1908. He recognized that the bison bones there were not from an extant species and spent years trying to convince scientists and experts to come check it out. Figgins only learned of the site in 1926, and it was because a friend of a friend of McJunkin approached him at the Colorado Museum of Natural History and actually brought him some of the bones from the Folsom Site. Then Figgins realized it was an important find and went to excavate it.
But credit where credit is due, Figgins did put the site on the international stage.
Yes, an important point in the history of North American archaeology.
Language recognizably changes within less than a generation. Try picking up your teen’s latest lingo to make them cringe. Try the same with grandchildren
Black history Yo!
Chalk one up for all the black cowboys lol. Very important quibble indeed 😂
And Thanks to You for sharing the name- & stallworth efforts of George McGunkin -- who's discovery was doubtlessly Dismissed for 18 years Mainly Because he had 'Excessively Melanic Skin'...
Really enjoyed this. Glad to see the migration to America going in a direction that includes different cultures. RIP Clovis first.
😊
Possibly... We do know upwards of 80% of all Native people in both North and South America are directly linked to the Clovis people through DNA.
I'm one of those idiots researching the Solutrean Hypothesis and i like hearing from other idiots! Thank you very much 😅
Excellent talk! Loved it! I agree in "liking the way you think,"...as well as explaining in such a way, that even I can follow in this fascinating topic! Thank you!
I've watched this video 3 times and it really opens my eyes realizing there's lots of possibilities
What a great, clearly understandable lecture! Very much appreciate your intellectual insight on currently "developing" sciences like DNA relationships among various human groups. Most of all, I appreciate your intellectual honesty! Your humor and enthusiasm about the Gault site are noted, and it's ok to be "biased", as long as we acknowledge it! Thanks for putting this lecture on You Tube!
Really like his lectures. They are very helpful for someone interested to understand a wide field of work and scholarship. Thank you.
Bravo! I am so sick of archaeologists and their egos and I am so blessed to see somebody just using scientific proof! This was a fantastic video! Once again Bravo
Do you have a special breed of archaeologists over there then? I read a lot of comments from folk who disagree with their ideas or claim that x denies new info but never hear from archaeologists themselves.
Trouble is when it comes to prehistory especially motives and reasons for doing things, like heave great lumps of rock round the landscape to make tombs or whatever no one knows. Each generation pops up with its own ideas.
@@helenamcginty4920 Yes, American archaeologists are, as a rule, a national disgrace. Some still to this day trot out the thoroughly demolished "construction equipment" explanation for the Cerutti Mastodon femur heads they insist were shifted underground, and together, several yards away from the rest of the femurs, without disturbing the solid sandstone all were embedded in. And they still insist Clovis people wiped out 30+ genera (and themselves) all at a shot in 12,800 BP.
People expecting scientific proof does not equal ego. If you're equating the antiquarians and archaeologists of the past to modern archaeology well then you're exceptionally uninformed.
@@helenamcginty4920🎉🎉🎉🎉
@@helenamcginty4920🎉🎉
I appreciate the desire to seek knowledge and understand the human story. So many of us do! Thank you 🙏 Love, and light!
Also consider that 20,000 years ago, when the ice stood high, the seas stood very low. There were a lot more islands above the water -- in both the Pacific and the Atlantic -- than there are today. Humans could have used simple dugout canoes to island-hop (or coast-hug) from Europe or Asia to the Americas. And, once here, they could have wandered anywhere in a few thousand years.
Exactly but most academics only except the land bridge theory. And dismiss the growing amount of evidence that points to other pathways. For example the ancient sites have a major difference in location. The east coast has many ancient peoples sites, very dense. Almost 20+/- to 1 compared to the more westward you go. No Clovis points have been found in Alaska or Siberia which there should be since they say that’s where they came from. But they are found almost everywhere on the east coast from Maine to Florida. The oldest sites are submerged where the ancient shoreline used to be and where River deltas met The Atlantic. The knife point found by dragger fisherman in 200ft of water 60 miles off the coast of Maryland. It was imbedded in a mammoth bone but it means nothing they say.
@@judd0112: It's also interesting that the oldest known "Clovis" type spear-points were found in northwestern Europe, and attributed to the Solutrean people.
@@lesliefish4753 exactly but they will just fight & deny till the end. Till they can’t deny anymore without looking absolutely ridiculous
@@judd0112 I would contest the idea that most academics only accept the land bridge theory. The kelp highway is very popular.
They came from the East not The West.
Very nice having a general overview of history including DNA as well as mentioning thousands of archeology sites still under investigation. That being an "idiot" shows there is enough information we have to surmise there is a lot more we don't know about. My family collected arrowheads for years from our corn fields showing rough quartz points to fine samples made of flint. There are thousands more Native American sites just in Virginia river valleys yet to be discovered. As a boy in the 1930s Dad saw clay pots washed out of river banks, but since they weren't as cool as arrowheads he ignored them. We found lots of pot shards in our fields obviously from a settlement, but never dug for intact ones. For those of you wondering I've never met a farmer who wanted an archeology dig in the middle of their crop fields.
Hey, I enjoyed your presentation very much. Ever since I first heard and read Knut Fladmark's 'Coastal Hypothesis', some 45 years ago (while an Anthropology major, at App. State Univ.), I've always thought it made (a lot!) more sense than the 'Ice Free Corridor'. Anyway, perhaps now, Fladmark will get his much deserved (over)due.
Thanks for the 'thumbs-up'. BTW, it blows my mind how some were (still are?) skeptical about Monte Vedre's chronology; I mean, you've got the organic remains of an (obviously) man-made structure, with a mammoth tooth (used as a core) inside. How much more can one ask for?!
Hey, thanks (again). One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how science can be so much like religion, w/respect to entrenched hypotheses and theories, that mirror the dogma and orthodoxy of the latter. Have a good one. Later... .
@@williamradisch340 Clovis First should have died in the 90s. Monte Verde wasn't the first straw, but it should have been the last. Yet, I've read where Dillehay's dean faced demands that he be fired, Dillehay was accused of fraud, planting evidence, etc.
Give neolithic peoples credit for having boats and drop sea levels by 400 feet and it changes a lot.
At 27:15, this idea of a process rather than an event seems very in line with the history. When I visited the museum in Anchorage last year (worth visiting, huge number of artifacts and traditional crafts etc) there was an account from a tribe that lived on the coast near the Bering Strait that the tribes in Siberia would traditionally cross (every year, if I remember right) and there would be a scuffle. I take this as a point of evidence that this process continued without end into recent history.
Yes, exactly. Some 30 years ago I saw an interview with an Alaskan Native that complained about the border, because of half of their tribe living on the Russian side. And there also was another documentary on Arctic hunters and they not only had the Bering-strait-whalers, but they introduced ice-hunting-practices that convinced me that a solid sea-ice is no hindrance, but works as a bridge. The earliest crossings might even have happened at the height of the last ice-age by seal-hunters. The next that came were coast-paddlers, going after fishes and whales. Sorrily the coastline was 130m deeper then, and those hunting-camps will be close to impossible to find. The rich volcanic waters of the Aleutes almost beg for fishing-trips. I read the finds on the Aleutes are said to be Epi-Gravettien and 7000 BCE ... and there is a dating issue. 7000 years is regarded as Mesolithic.
I prefer doing 'Human'-measure-reconing. A human walks 4-5km per hour, let's say, 'our' human is lazy and has a kid to drag along, so it will be only 3km/h.
Historical summer-working time is 16h/day. But those are prehistoric hunters and probably move only 8 hours a day to meet a neighbouring group to hunt or trade with.
If you try to stay in the same climate-zone and decide to walk from the Bretagne to the Bering-Strait, it's about 13.000 km. It would take you some 550 days.
Of course our hypothetical human isn't going to walk all the way. (Though I bet there even then were some weirdos like the Breton, that needed 2 years).
But our human will only be going to a hunting-party with a neighbouring group. And there, as a present, he brings some of his hunting spears with the new tip-shape or the new knife-shape he made up. Let's say, it takes the neighbouring group for about a year to realize: 'Yeah, that new shape and fixing is better, we should do that, too', and tell that to their eastern neighbours, perhaps gifting them a set of their new produce in turn, and those need another year to adopt the new fashion... let's be conservative and lazy: even then the new spear-fashion will need 600, perhaps 700 years to travel from the Atlantic all across the good hunting-grounds of the steppe and to end up on the pacific coast.
It would mean, that some new fashion that was invented during a hunting party in the summer of 20.000 BC on the Atlantic Coast and turned Gravettien into Epi-gravettien is - even with lazy and conservative exchangers - known at the Pacific Coast at least by 19.300. Especially if it is some representative gift to a clan-boss. Every other Clan boss will want something similar.
The only thing that travels faster than a bad rumor is a good idea !
The only reason that the Inuits don't do that today is because of two batshitcrazy countries pointing guns at each other 😮
@@MagnaMater2when is the last time someone could walk from Russia to Alaska?
Last winter.
@@ShadowWalker-vq7kb Is it too warm, this year?
The "broad view" of the evidence, by an idiot! Loved it! That kind of humility is sorely needed amoung the specialists. Thank you Dr. Wernecke. You present a informative and persuasive arguement.
Very good lay down. Makes me want to go out and dig stuff up. Nah! I’ll leave it to the professionals. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much. One of the best presentations dealing with this most important subject. Archeology as a discipline is loaded with bias and self interest. Science as a process should but is not always a guiding principle.
Just found your channel and your organization. Excellent presentation, I look forward to watching more of your content.
This is an extremely informative and thought provoking lecture.
Excellent! The weasel-alert at 53 minutes should be part of every middle-school science class.
I have to appreciate the humor of referencing Noah and following immediately with, "only an idiot would put a wolf in a boat."
That depends on just how well trained the wolf is.
Same goes for all carnivores. 😄
It’s possible… haven’t you heard of “Florida Man”?
What's wrong if the wolf is a puppy?
@@Appleblade I'm sure that would be fine. lol
Have been studying geology as a novice for a few years, and Archeological sites a few years less. Got into it heavier during Covid. This has been a super interesting lecture, great stuff.
Go Horns! 🤘 Being a longhorn myself, (geographer that should have also gotten a geology and archeology degree,) your presentation, research, and straight up horse-sense reasoning sure makes this Texan proud! On my short list is a visit to the archeology department, maybe a chat with you, and definitely lots of reading on the Gault site!!
I dug 75 feet into the texas ground, a shear cliff to see the past and the tools, the ornamented aspects of it are undeniably human or intelligently made, but better still, I would swear it is a geopolymer rather than just stone. I am in Luling, Texas areas on the shores of the San Marcos on a high knoll where I dug to the giant rocks with carving on the top, and tools, proof of a civiliastion but also, evidence of a serious burn, meteor or solar flare that melted some things, burned one half of rocks, not the others, and meteorites on the property. These could be pre-clovis but regardless, symbol of birds, of turtles. Something was here smarter than the average bear.
Very good and comprehensive presentation of evidence, I'm glued to my screen here.
Wow - you’re actually looking at the evidence rather than fragile egos lol - refreshing
Looking at evidence and possibilities has a tendency to upset peoples preconceived ideas.
Observing egos is revelatory to the vetting of evidence veracity without having to read source papers.
Yup, that IS what scientific method IS. embrace it.@@mpetersen6
"What happened to the Avocado People?" 😂😄 As a child of the Seventies, I ask the same.
I'm a descendant of the Avocado people. Ask me anything.
Dr. Clark Wernecke is a wonderful presenter. I greatly appreciate his portion on Skepticism, b. at 52:12. The scientific process and the importance of evidence is expressed throughout. Well done.
I am following closely. I have also been looking at a site here in San antonio studying stratigraphy and I have noticed there seems to be a ton of ground stone debitage washing out with the rains
This was fascinating, thank you.
Thank You Dr. Wernecke, This is a great video and you have helped me on my search for the American Upper Paleolithic on the East Coast.
"Trust the Science" means that Skepticism is not allowed. I am a novice and not a scientist, and have always thought that the scientific consensus about when people came to North America and that they only came from Asia is flawed. This is the best information I have seen to show that the consensus is wrong and that all this other evidence needs to be included versus being rejected because it doesn't fit the current models.
Yeea man , I've been trying to
Get this kind of stuff across to many in my community .
That we as a people still don't know enuff to say something is a fact ,thank you 🎉😊
Excellent talk!
Clearly, not an idiot! Excellent talk by a very knowledgeable man.
fun and interesting , you're not an idiot, , lots of good info some of which have heard before. Thanks for sharing your study with us. I always figured people inter breed so we are all a mixed bag..I did hear that languages evolve and based on the number of similar languages in North America that we have been on the continent something like 20,000 years. What about the Reed boats found on the west coast SF bay area in the bay and also in Africa? Have you read contiki about that( guy made boat and went from Africa to coast of South America successfully.?
We have located one of the submerged settlement sites off of the coast of North America. We have gps coordinates. It’s
Kind of amazing. We hope a professor would contact us.
This is one of the best chats I've had the privilege of seeing! Thank you so MUCH!
Hello interesting group and discussions here.
Will you ever be addressing the so-called Younger Dryas theory, and how a cataclysm from around 11,000 years ago could coincide with "pre-historic" mysteries ; principally regarding the construction of megalithic sites in many parts of the world?
A key comment is that the majority of coastal artifacts prior to 13,000 years ago are 300 ft below the current sea level. And though there were certainly glacial areas which extended to the shore line, most glaciation leaves lots of places for a kayak or boat to put to shore along the pacific coast.
In Some Cases, They Are 300 Feet Below The Soil.
60-150 miles off shore
But, isostatic rebound along that shoreline might put that '300 ft' stratigraphy at or even above current shore?
Thank you for analysis that logical and believable.
This is a well-constructed presentation, full of information. Many thanks.
I live about 30 minutes away from Meadowcroft and am always fascinated that it’s not better known in the archeological community
you probably have a meadowcroft right in your backyard. humans were everywhere. start digging...
@@bobs5596 I have found several artifacts in the creeks surrounding my house. It’s a wonderful place to live
@@Konkata the gold is right in your back yard.
The reason 12,500 BC is so key and throughout the video is because all the large mega fauna, everything over the size of a groundhog died off, in one strike, about 14,500 years ago when a cataclysmic event took place during what is called the Younger Dryas. It seems the north American ice age was letting up and the ice was starting to recede, when either a comet or an asteroid came in and air burst, likely over the northwestern US/Canadian border, give or take. The asteroid (if that's what it was) broke up and hit the ice in different places, causing massive ice breaks that literally slid down the northwest of the US, carving out Utah and the ravaged canyons and causes floods, fires, and most likely blew over trees for 1000 miles. Whatever the exact details, it happened at at once, and there is evidence of the destruction in many sites all over. Before that point, there were fossils of mammoths, saber tooth tigers, ect. After: NOTHING. NADA. Never again. Gone.
So ANY culture that was there, even villages of 1000's, (think native Americans in teepees or long houses) if they ever existed, would have been completely wiped out. During the resulting famine, almost without exception, humans would have died out in North America, Canada, and most everything except the higher elevations. So they were not covered by sand, mud or dirt, but completely destroyed by ravaging ice and timber flows as the land was completely ravaged. We all know that ANY fossils are rare, but people and whatever they owned would have been crushed and ground to gravel and burning under landslides and completely lost. But, due to the ice sheet, there is no crater to point to. It's not thought that parts of the asteroid also hit the ocean, including the Atlantic, causing massive floods that inundated coastlines all over. The dates would line up with global histories talking about a flood that wiped out all but a few people. Humm, a great flood? That sounds familiar.
It's hard for archaeologists and even harder for geologists to change, but the evidence is starting to add up.
So much to learn and so little time,Thanks for the video.
Those similar points...the Meadowcroft and the 18,000 year old shorline ones look like someone sat down and copied one from the other--the details are incredibly close to identical. That's mind-blowing. It's like maybe they were made by the same person, but moved across the area by trade. I dunno if they're at all the same age, but I'll be damned if they aren't. Otherwise, how did they manage to be so similar?
I've got to say this is one of the best talks I've run across on this subject. I couldn't tell you what I based my view on, but as a kid in the sixties and seventies, I read about the Clovis and Folsom points and the dating...but something convinced me that, eventually, evidence would show up indicating human presence in the Americas, especially North America, twenty-some thousands of years ago. It's a nice feeling, thinking something seemed likely, and then evidence showing up while I'm still around to appreciate it. It does seem rather obvious that humans have been traveling great distances by boat for a very, very long time. I always thought the Bering land bridge theory didn't quite fit the evidence; now I see that was right, too.
Bravo! Great synopsis of the current state of paleoarchaeology in North America. And a great delivery... Thank you to Dr. Wernicke and to the Archaeological Conservancy for the presentation.
Entertaining and informative. Thank you.
This was like a breath of fresh air with what I have found and thought through, this was a very well done video. I've been and finding artifacts and fossils since I was a kid and even the occasional midden pile and camps (pottery, armadillo bones, charcoal, bones, flint, tools and even a camp that has flint and anglo items as if they were stolen etc). It would be great to get in contact with someone to look at my collection and I could even show obvious camp sites i have found through out my life, from North lousisna through Texas to San Luis Potosi Mexico. One of which has mammoth orbital bone that is fossilized with carbon on it (char) AND marks, yes in perfect environment bones can fossilize quicker. (pottery, armadillo bones, charcoal, bones, flint, tools etc)
Great video! I learned a lot. Thank you
This video conclusively proves we need to keep investigating and questioning our perceptions.
The Laurel Leaf point found off shore N. Carolina. What other type points have been found since?
Excellent presentation, perfect for the curious, yet not expert. Thank you
Clark Wernecke states something to the effect of: the narrative was controlled by the people who controlled the the journals and the jobs. Well, not much have changed is science. This is not sour grapes, I found myself on the influential and employed side of this line.
Why couldn't people just always have been here..
I also have a lot of artifacts that I have found in the deep water in the lower Chesapeake bay.. small & large
American ego. European ego. Scientific ego. You pick. ✌️
There could have been but no one has found the evidence. We know what we have evidence to support and nothing more. No human evidence has been found older than around 25 or 30 thousand years. If you don’t have evidence then you are just making things up.
So happy to hear about the older finds at Gault site. Always wondered why scientists weren't Digging Deeper!!
There are lots of reasons you either don't or can't dig deeper. One of the most major in the US is NAGPRA. Basically as soon as any human remains are found all sorts of stuff comes into play such as finding the tribal group who has the closest relationship to the remains. That opens the flood gates as to what does the closest relationship mean? Cultural, locational, genetic? So many different variables. So let's say we are digging up the foundation of a settlement and a culture that wasn't the first to settle there has a practice of burying the dead under the family home, or keeps the skull as an heirloom, similar to the skull cults found in the Middle East 8-10kya, everything stops. And then, if the group determined to be the closest relative group decides the remains are not to be moved, everything stops or then goes to the courts. Inlf the courts side with the remains being undisturbed, that's it. Or if the site was being dug for a commercial reason, CRM is only going to test site as far down as is required per construction code. After that you have to wait until that construction is torn down for something larger before deeper digging will occur, similar to what happened in NYC.
This is just one of the many reasons that you sometimes just can't "dig deeper." It's not some conspiracy as much as it is religion, politics, and culture.
" never apologize, it's a sign of weakness " No One Cares About Another's Being Offended - Already ! Bravo Sir, For Just Giving The Latest Science
Best archaeology lecture ever. Thank you!
As a "Amateur " Historian interested in anything historic that from today to the big bang I found this very interesting . Also as I live in England. The question I have is do we know the population sizes of the various groups of people moving from Asia to America before say 15,000 years ago ? Is there any way that can be researched?
I don't think that is possible at all no.....from what i understand the sites found on the west coast from Alaska down to the lower states are pretty small though. They don't find enormous amounts of stuff like they do at Gault or elsewhere. That probably means small groups originally but who knows....
I live about 8 miles from the two Kenosha County sites. The Hiebor mammoth is on display at the Milwaukee Public Museum. The Scheaffer Mammoth in the Kenosha Public Museum.
I doubt that much of North America would be recognizable only 10,000 years ago, and its component parts were far from their current locations, 50,000 years ago, or more. Earth is not a static construct whizzing through space, four billion years of looking the same as it does today. I doubt anything would be recognizable, one million years ago, yet geologists and archaeologists commonly use modern tropes.
On your map of Clovis points, the northern distribution creates a line eerily reminiscent of the "southern" edge of the ONAC, the Old North American Craton, a chunk of original crust. This suggests that when those Clovis Points were deposited, that piece of plate, from the border between KY and TN, down to the line below the Caymans, was someplace else entirely.
Explaining why the points are where they are found, so many years later, is problematic. We have no narratives to illuminate those distant lives. Judging from the lore handed down to us, by our distant ancestors in a cosmic game of "Telephone", events and occurrences, witnessed by the people of the time.
i assume so, but no one ever much talks about it, was the Antarctic icecap equal in mass?
great talk!! 25:25 small adjustment, there is new evidence for bison moving through the corridor 13,000 to 13,500 years ago.
Best I've heard on the subject
I've still got a lot of avocado in my house.
My ancestors who were still alive when I was a child told me that we were always here. Then she told me that Sinawave gave a bag of sticks to Coyote, and told Coyote not to open it. But Coyote couldn't help wanting to take a peek to see what was in there, so he loosened the strings which held the bag shut, and in there were many sticks of four different colours in there. He opened to bag to see the sticks better, but then he sneezed and all the sticks fell out of the bag. As soon as the sticks hit the ground, they turned into people, and they all ran off to the four directions, each going toward the direction which corresponded to their colour. The thing is, if I am supposed to believe that story, that means we weren't always here. We were here for a very long time, but not forever.
I now look at the evidence, and find it fascinating.
Monte Verde... People there over tens of thousands of years. Must have been a good place to stay. Even more so with Huaca Prieta.
Those people who made the Clovis points, and also the fish points of South America were really skilled. It's hard to nap any point, but to nap it with that precision is really amazing. No matter what it's position in time was, they still represent really superb craftsmanship. The guys who knocked those out really knew what they were doing. Not that others didn't. It's just that they took the time to make something which was strictly utilitarian in a way that took more work and precision than was necessary to do the job.
I don't know that it matters a whole lot what the race of the people were who got here first. We are one species and we tend to separate each other according to some pretty minor differences. If we were birds instead of primates, the difference probably wouldn't be enough to call us a subspecies. The thing that makes any of this interesting is that it shows how our species spread to eventually live on every continent, and most islands of any significance. Some of this spreading was done in historical times, and we know how we got to those places. But our species has been around for quite awhile, and we really don't know yet how a lot of it happened. We may never know it all. Our world has changed so much, and parts which were accessible are no longer accessible, or have been destroyed.
There are other problems which are staring us in the face. As the permafrost melts in the areas where people supposedly migrated to here from, we find beautifully preserved animals from far back in time, and we find a whole hoard of bones from animals which were not well preserved, but as of yet, we have not found one hint of human remains. If people here came from there, where are the remains of their ancestors? Even if they were very few and far between, you would think we would have found some evidence by now, but it just isn't there. Why? The area was obviously well stocked with food sources. And with there being so little competition, what made them move out and head to the Americas? We still have a lot to learn and figure out, and it's likely we will never know the whole picture, but it is certainly interesting to learn as much as we can.
You seem to have more dignity than what I've seen about the Smithsonian. The term "Smithsonian Gate," has been well earned. Excellent look into what is currently accepted. Good video, thank you.
The map of North America in the Ice Age had coast lines that were much larger then the ones we have today. Is it possible a lot of the evidence of older cultures got lost after the sea levels rose? People today tend to live closer to the sea and populations thin out as you move inland.
Yes. I have heard about several archeological finds in the ocean near the outlet of the Chesapeake Bay. I'm sorry I don't have any more details than that.
Yes very possible.... the thing most people don't realize or account for is that during the ice age, and coming out of it. the sea levels were much lower maybe a third less water in the ocean as so much of the water was contained in the ice. I've seen theories wich put a land bridge across the north Atlanta with the lower water and I believe in the time of peleg when the eart broke apart much was changing.
That’s exactly correct. The oldest ancient American sites are submerged. And artifacts have been recovered from fishermen’s nets. My favorite one is the fishermen who was dragging his nets for bottom fish 60 miles off the coast of Maryland and in his haul ha had a big hunk of something. After cleaning it off it was if I remember correctly a mammoth clavicle(shoulder) with a spear point imbedded in it. It’s currently in a museum in Maryland I believe. The archeologists who get the financial backing and the technological expertise to excavate the areas offshore will undoubtedly be the next rockstar or Indians Jones and i hope that im around to see it. Instead of donating millions to some nonsense whatever it should be invested in this type of underwater archaeology
It's not only possible lol. It's pretty much the main problem in archeology worldwide 😄
Thank you for the plain talk. It really spoke to my skeptical nature. All things are possible in this nonlinear world. 😊
Most excellently done LECTURE ❤😂
I live in the BBNP area of Texas and have found many uniface points. As you would know, the technological differences between uniface and biface points and tools are parallel to that of prop and jet engine aircraft. I believe these uniface points are 20-25,000 years old.
I thought for sure I was going to hate this. Best talk of the year!
I am so glad that I found this!
Fascinating information. Thank you.
The reality that most academics even consider, let alone are self censoring from even hypothesizing an Atlantic migration route due to fear of cultural sensitivities, is so anti scientific, spineless, dishonest and self loathing.
Skepticism is often misunderstood my laymen who don’t study the literature. Skepticism is challenging established dogma vs the support of religious dogma which requires supernatural solutions.
Great presentation. Loved it!
very eye opening. wonderful and thought provoking. true scientific skepticism in the search for truth.
I like this. Thank you! I live in North Eastern PA.
Excellent summation of many types of archaeological evidence. Ancient people have been moving across Northern Eurasia for millenia. When you go back, 20k, the genetic types we associate in Europe or Asia today were different, probably somewhere in between the caucasian and mongolian types today ex. the the Ainu of Japan, a mix of genetics. No doubt people were coming from Asia and Europe with mixing happening for a long time. If European DNA was in the minority, it would be less evident. You don't go far into the Solutrean hypothesis and Dennis Stanford's work. The lithic evidence definitely points towards Europe.
Always an interesting presenter. I feel skepticism is vital to any scientific process, but skepticism needs to be based on science. As an example, skepticism about evolution is not science based and is not helpful. I know I wish someone would just say, the first people arrived in North America on July 23 15,323 BCE, and we could be done with the debate. But alas, science is not that simple
Actually there is scientific evidence of creation if you look at enough science and observable facts. There is also evidence of the global flood if you look at the evidence in the layers of sediment which in many places are tens of meters thick. It's all come down to interpretation of the evidence. Those dinosaur bodies were buried very deep in rapidly accruing sediment so that they did not have time to decompose before being buried deep enough to stop decomposition. So it all comes down to observed facts and interpretation.
They did say that basically they said there was nothing here pre-Clovis. That statement alone defies all scientific theories. To say that’s it no one was here before is totally ridiculous and should never be said by a scientist researching anything
my first thought was maybe that the direction, 14:54, was a instance of backtracking? maybe something in their culture/times inspired a more literal migratory pattern. iirc there was something seasonal like this in a lot of native american societies, maybe carried over from that more ancient endeavor? idk
Excellent Lecture ,Thank you for sharing.
At 11:30 the depth of the dig site is much more impresive than just reading the numbers. There is just nothing for many feet between the Clovis points and the later points. They moved north with the animals then south when they left with the animals at some point. The Native Americans came back once again, they are still here.
🎵This is the Red Green Show it's not the Green Red Show 🎶 This guys voice totally reminds me of Uncle Red
What a Wonderfully thought-provoking 'Reality Check'':
"...nobody asked: 'Whatever happened to the Avocado [appliance buying] people.?"..!
What if Noah built his boat in N America then ended up in Asia?
Archaeology needs to be re-modeled after the discovery of Gobekli Tepe. Remove the focus from white academics to the native ppl
The type site point,in situ, with the bison bones is still on display at the Denver museum of Natural History to this day! Most people walk right by, void of its significance.😊
We also have Rimrock Draw, in SE Oregon, with solid dates at ~18kya. And of course there's the newly confirmed White Sands footprint dates at ~21 to ~23kya.
I don't understand why people are not looking at older strata in, e.g., the Portland Basin -- potentially attractive locations just south of the Cordilleran ice sheet, up rivers that might have enticed migrants coming down the coast to venture inland. The Chehalis, a little north of the Columbia, was also perhaps quite attractive, being just south of the Cordilleran.
It seems to me that people didn't need to hop along the Aluetians. If you're starting from Kamchatka, you can bump NE along the coast and follow the southern shore of Beringia.
What a narrow biblical version of time and history that leaves out what we know now. So speculative. Dreaming for a living.
? Did you actually watch the video???
Loved the comparison of refrigerator colors.
An observation I want other folks to notice; if you take a map of Mexican Indian languages and overlay a map of the regional reach of various drug gangs there is a lot of similarity. The Sinaloa Cartel speaks a different Indian language (Otomí) than the Zetas (most likely Nahuatl).
I was an avocado person.
@@myboloneyhasafirstname6764 You have a wonderful handle! From the same era.
damn grew up pa dutch my balony really did have first name (lebanon) lol
I think the cartels mirror what life was like in precolumbian times