How Much Damage is +1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2024
- This video takes a look at how much damage you can get from a +1 bonus in Pathfinder Second Edition. It gives you three principles for when to use buffs and debuffs and when not to use them. Then we consider a fourth principle as well which takes into account probability instead of average damage.
piano player Kevin Macleod
00:00 Introduction
01:00 disclaimer
01:32 calculating average damage
03:12 using percentages
09:16 three principles
12:25 principle 4 - เกม
"That is pretty obvious, but it means we want to play like we know this." It's the little things that get my goose.
Every day where a Crunch McDabbles video drops is a good day.
A comment about the Hoskin's maneuver - not only is that single hit more likely to hit but for anything that does extra damage against off-guard/flatfooted such as rogues and weapons with the backstab trait, it has a higher base damage that it is a higher percentage of.
This shows just how you should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS try to attack a flat footed enemy. Thats a +2 bonus!! Its ALWAYS worth it to stride into a flank!
yeah, i was thinking about that too while i was editing this
@@LegendaryCMDone minor criticism I'd point out with the vid is, demoralize is sort of a weird example here since it's far from a guaranteed +1, so it's not really a clean 10%, and lingers longer than your turn, etc. Though I also suppose it's sorta rare to see a one action guaranteed+1.
Otherwise, great job! Always love to see your vids
The very important point is definitely that if you demoralize, your buddies acting before its turn will also benefit from its -1 to AC (and saving throws), and that it will get -1 to its attacks against you!
And when you have juicy special effects when you crit, then a +1 to attack is even more valuable! :)
Being able to put these probability concepts that are intuitive for some brains and absolutely incomprehensible for other brains into a easily-digestible format is such a fantastic and useful skill, appreciate it so much.
Demoralize has a direct relation to Principle 3, where each rank of demoralized successfully landed on the target increases the duration by a round AND temporarily increases the penalty by 1. In general if I'm running a game and the party gets a monster to Demoralized 4 they flee even if there's not an effect forcing it, because all theme aside when they're 20% worse at everything that's also the smart thing to do.
It is worth considering the math of Aid or Intimidate failing. If you're not a high-charisma character but you are trained in Intimidate, the "bonus from a Demoralize action" can be averaged as not +1 but +0.5 to 0.6. If you aren't trained it's more like +0.3 or 0.4
Principle 2 ends up overwhelming this handily - the benefit of that +1 is felt in EVERY attack or spell targeting the monster before its next turn ends - but it's important to be clear that the process of obtaining that +1 often doesn't ACTUALLY obtain it, just as the third (or fourth, on some classes) attack might have as little as 5% odds of landing.
LETS GO CRUNCH! I'M so happy to see another upload from you
Poor Warpriest!
i like the new warpriest...just kind of a habit to make fun of them
Did they change a lot to make em more of a hybryd?
@@forngaupa Warpriests are still full casters, they've been buffed and given more options.
good way to start a year
Damage per round isn't the be-all end-all it was in previous editions, I like to drag enemies' AC to the ground so my whole party can go apeshit
It's like Crunch states at the end of the video, heroes make their own fortune
What an excellent way to start the year, let's go!
Happy New Year Mr. McDabbles! What a great video to start off 2024. Thank you.
BTW where Da Heck did you grow up that leads you to state that the slightly bent line in that chart looks like a hockey stick!? We need to start a GoFundMe and get you up to Canada so they can show you what an actual stick looks like!
Happy new year.
Great start of the year! 👍
Good analysis. Will send to my players. Thanks!
Happy new year! 🍸
Another amazing video. I appreciate you doing all this math. It would make my brain hurt. But you present it in a way that even i can understand. Thank you.
Very interesting video! Cool channel you have here, subscribed!
Wow, really great video! I got even more than I expected!
This is a really good video
This is great
can you do a video on animal companions? they provide extra attacks at not MAP so they are very strong
5:27 I'm unfamiliar with PF, so idk why you get a Crit on 19 or 20 here. Could you explain?
I like the way you laid this out, easy to follow, well done.
Anytime you get a 10 above a dc it’s a crit even not on a d20
Okay, but I didn't think the example was lowering the dc, I thought it was just adding +/-1 to hit.
WOHA!
At ~5:15 in this video, you seem to use "average damage" for at least two different things. (I think you sometimes mean "average damage if you hit", and sometimes "average damage on an attack"?)
It's key to understand the difference between 'percent' and 'percent points'. If "average damage" (on a hit) is 5.1, then adding +1 attack bonus does not increase "average damage" (on hit) from 5.1 to 5.61. It increases the chance to hit by 10 percent points, and to crit by 10 percent points. The "average damage" (on a hit) is still the same, but going from base line "60%" to "70%" increases expected average damage from 0.6 * 5.1 to 0.7 * 5.1 , and that's an increase by 16.666... percent (using 60% of 5.1 as "100%")
.
I suppose you could have used "average hit damage" and "average attack damage", to avoid confusion.
Thanks for bringing up an awesome point. I love you for that. Get ready for some knowledge.
What you are talking about is called Percent Increase or Percent Change which is calculated ((New value - Original Value) / Old Value) *100, in this case 70 minus 60 divided by 60, times 100 which gives us 16.6%. Now Percent Change is a useful statistical tool in certain situations, however, this is not one of them. I will show you why it isn’t.
Percent increase measures a comparison from where we were to where we are now. You can use it fine just by itself as you frequently see in advertising. Let’s say a box of Oreos that used to have 60 Oreos in the box, now has 70 Oreos in the box. They will mark the bag with a big red tag that says “16.7% more Oreos!” and people like me will walk by and purchase them because I like Oreos and it is a 16.7% increase in value. That works fine.
It is also used for comparisons, but usually for changes over time. Let’s say a company had 60 employees. Over the course of the year, they added 10 more. They would say they had a 16.7% increase in employees. That makes sense. However, the next year if they only added 10 more employees, going from 70 to 80 employees, it would have only been an increase of 14.3%. In this case Percent Change makes sense because you would expect a larger company with 70 employees to increase more employees over the year than they did when they had 60 employees. So, in this case, the Percent Change statistical tool is revealing that the company fell short of the increase in employees they had the year before. Brilliant! That works.
Now, when an attack bonus increases by +1, are you expecting to get more out of it depending on where you started? No…it’s always going to be +1. For example, if you have a +9 to hit or a +13 to hit, are you expecting a +1 to create a higher number in the +13 than the +9? No, a +1 is going to turn a +9 to +10 and a +13 to a +14. The amount from where you started has no bearing on the amount where you end up. But that is what you are doing when you use Percent Increase in this situation. As the attack bonus increases, the Percent Increase will decrease, giving the illusion that it is adding less damage, but the fact is that the +1 bonus will have the same impact regardless of what it is added to. Let’s prove this.
Let’s say I am about to cast the Guidance cantrip and give someone a +1-status bonus to their attack, but I don’t know whether to cast it on the warpriest or the fighter. They both deal 10 average damage (on hit) but the fighter has a +14 to hit and the warpriest has a +10 to hit and they are both trying to hit an enemy with a 20 armor class.
Now I want to make sure my Guidance cantrip has the biggest impact possible, so I decide to compare Percent Increases. The +1 moves the warpriest from 60% to 70% which is a Percent Increase of 16.6%. The +1 moves the fighter from 110% to 120% which is only a 9.1% increase. So clearly giving the bonus to the warpriest is going to be the better move. Or is it?
The reality is, from an average damage point of view, since they have the same average damage (on hit), a +1 on either one will create the same average damage. Here is proof. If I give a +1 bonus to the warpriest he gets 70% of average damage, which is 7, and the fighter chips in his 120% of average damage, which is 12. You get 19 average damage from the two of them. If I go the other way and buff the fighter, I get 60% of average damage from the warpriest which is 6 average damage and 130% of average damage from the fighter which is 13 average damage. It totals 19 average damage again. So, what relevance did Percent Increase have on the situation? That’s right…none.