After spending a few years fishing for Great Lakes salmon and seeing it all happen, I like to use this platform to share my thoughts and opinions about the whole situation. These are my opinions on some of my most asked questions and comments. Let me know what you think!
Could you please give a propeller fly? it has a propeller in the head of a fly like an inline spinner. It's a hybrid between a spinner and a fly, specially in front of a wollybugger or an intruder
Nice meeting you shocking the AuSable. Enjoy your videos. Though I’d comment on salmon fishing with flies. I’ve found two techniques that do not foul hook or “line” fish in the mouth. Both result in fair takes. One is to dead drift nymph patterns through holding water when the salmon first arrive in the river. Small size ten Caddis are very productive. The second is to swing flies below redds when aggressive males are jockeying for position. These males will chase and nip at the flies to chase them away. I’ve watched them take my flies many times so I know they are not getting “lined”. While these takes are often soft and result in fish getting off, the takes are legitimate. I also avoid swinging across the redds bu casting above and beyond the redd so the fly drifts below where fish are actively spawning. Catching salmon on a fly is very challenging and fun. That’s why I gave up lures and bait and won’t go back.
Good on you for speaking out on the flossing issues. We have it with different techniques, and straight up people snagging fish, here in the PNW. This is also one of the main reasons I float fish 90% of the time. One of the best quotes one of my fishing buddies told me once, "I'm looking for willing participants".
black rabbit strip on a keel hook w/ a muddler type head,they have to actually eat it to get hooked,only 3-4 eats/day but they're legit,can't line or foul them w/ the keel hook
@@FishFray , On the fly its not a numbers game , plus can we truly swing accurately? To swing a fly in front of a fish with the right speed and in the strikezone requires a lot of control and takes a lifetime to achieve it. Even for guides in the west-coast who are masters at this their numbers are 1-10 when compared to gear fishermen . [These numbers were shared by famous fly guides in Alaska on remote stretches). I had these kings take wollybuggers(Even seen a hen charge my fly from 6-9ft of distance it actuallty followed and dove down) to zug-bugs while euro-nymphing for them.(Generally just a fish or two for 8hrs+of fishing) . I have seen fly fishermen take these salmon on intruder style flys quite effectively at night when they move through flat stretches of the river , they rest/halt in small pockets for a few moments and will swipe at any fly ,I initially thought he was just flossing them but every hookup was an engulfed fly. He was very willing to pass on the info and even showed me the technique I saw the take in the rod tip it was that violent
Just curious do you have any tips or tricks for making sure the bait isn't going under the fish out rivers are so low that by the time my float rig is all set up and I attach the leader I'm to deep any tips will help thank you
Hey man I just wanted to say thank you this video really hit home with me I got into a big argument with my buddy the other day about it the whole flossing technique. I was able to let him hear what you said and explain to him that I learned a lot about fishing for these fish through your channel. He’s unwilling to put the time into fishing properly with a float
I know plenty of guys like this, and I get why they just want to floss the fish in front of them. It's their choice how they want to fish, but if you're sharing a hole with them, once they start flossing on them or foul hooking them they are putting the hole down and your chances of getting a legit biting fish go way down, so it's frustrating.
@@like8749 sort of. Usually, you'll use a good bit of weight and a long leader, so the weights are 2' or more above your hook. Idea is you throw it out, let the current carry it along the bottom where the fish sit and hope the line between the hook and weights goes into the fish's mouth so when you lift up to throw it back up stream you pull it tight and bury the hook into their mouth, or the current will pull the hook to the fishes mouth and you'll feel a head shake as it tries to clear it. The main reason flossing is questionable is because like you said it's pretty much snagging them in the mouth. There are ways to avoid relying on flossing with a fly rod, and still be successful, most people simply won't do it because they either don't know how or don't care. Snagging used to be legal in a lot of the Great Lakes states until the mid 90's and a lot of the people you'll see out on the rivers remember when it was legal and hate that it was banned. Flossing is their way of getting around the regulations against snagging, unfortunately it's also what they are teaching new people trying their hand at catching Salmon.
It took me two years to land my first Salmon. I was taught right away from a group of friends who started taking me out that we don't fish spawning fish, and we don't chuck and duck. I've used Skein, Spawn, Spinners and Cranks and most of that was because of this channel. So I appreciate all the work you put into these videos.
Some heroes wear waders! Haha. You’re awesome, didn’t exactly build my confidence before my trip next week lol but all I got is a fly rod and a dream! Hopefully make it happen again this year 💪
I learned flossing as well when I started. After a few years it seemed wrong as you said. If you spend enough time on the water you learn. Thanks for talking about this. Different strokes for different folks. Tight lines and thanks for the awesome footage!!!!
Interesting perspective - agree that flossing is far too common - but IMO I've seen far more people targeting spawning fish who are not fly fisherman, both in MI and NY - heavy lures with trebles are pretty much the worst culprit and you see it on fish who have had fin after fin ripped. If they are using a fly rod, but not using fly line, that doesn't immediately mean they are a 'fly fisherman' either. I fish indicator rigs on switch rods with floating lines and have caught salmon using stoneflies, egg patterns and streamers - little to no weight - never had an issue finding fresh kings who are willing to take - you have to search more, but you do get active takes (landing is another matter). In my view, no different from fishing with a bead, or drifting skein through every inch of a hole on a small creek - its more the intent (hooking by sight fishing vs fishing). I quite happily will fish a spinner, bead or crank bait - to me its all about the fair play of a fish actively feeding (or aggression striking) and I enjoy the challenge of landing a fish on a fly rod.
Who cares about catching a fish it's all about just being there and seeing everything the sound of the water running over the rocks just being in nature. Living the way man should.. a fish is just a bonus... And u probably will catch more fish this way because ur not trying so hard . kinda like u want it but u don't... I could live there and do 24/7
Flossing def goes on and plenty of snagging as well but Im tired of crank and or skein/bead fisherman saying that salmon wont take an egg fly or swung streamer. Theyre analogous approaches to triggering the same strile impulses. Why dont we all just stop fishing em altogether😝🤷🏻♂️
My first year out I was just fishing with inline spinners and had to chase a few people out who were snagging. I still only like to use inline spinners but what I’ve started doing is making my own inline spinners except I use fly lures for a hook. I started just cutting off treble hooks and adding a store bought fly but now I’m trying to get into tying my own flies just so I can make bigger single hooks for salmon fishing. Great video! If you ever get time get some snap rings grab a couple rooster tails cut the treble hooks off and add a fly lure for a trailer. It’s really fun and so much better for the fish
My first year out I was just fishing with inline spinners and had to chase a few people out who were snagging. I still only like to use inline spinners but what I’ve started doing is making my own inline spinners except I use fly lures for a hook. I started just cutting off treble hooks and adding a store bought fly but now I’m trying to get into tying my own flies just so I can make bigger single hooks for salmon fishing. Great video! If you ever get time get some snap rings grab a couple rooster tails cut the treble hooks off and add a fly lure for a trailer. It’s really fun and so much better for the fish
Always enjoyed watching your videos, Fray. I share the same passion as you do in fishing ethically no matter if it’s fly fishing, centrepin or casting out in the lake. As long as you treat these fish with respect and fish for them the right way, it’s a blessing to be apart of. Always know when I watch a video from you that it’s going to be a good one. Big fan, keep going forward Fray.
@@FishFray Thanks Fray, had a decent salmon season so far, now that they are in spawning mode and moved to the gravel beds, I leave them alone. Waiting for some rain to bring on the steelhead and browns. Thanks for stopping by .
im from the pnw, where we have some rivers that flossing is the only thing people do on them to catch fish. What i dont understand is why people are going through these lengths in Michigan to floss spawning fish? like the quality of meet is just not it. the rivers being flossed in pnw are at least bright fish fresh from the ocean?
I was just watching some of your older black streamers for coho. And you got a Atlantic in one... I didn't think it looked like you were flossing those ... Please keep your streamer videos 🙏 i appreciate them greatly. I love tying my own and i plan to tie a few of the black with green eyes that you posted.
I love fly fishing by the spawning salmon. Except I use an egg pattern and fish below them trying to get a steelhead. I agree, the flossing of salmon with a fly rod is very easy to do and I have seen it with spinning rods and idiots with braided line and a weighted hook. No too mention the braided line left behind is great for cutting through our waders. Comes down to personal ethics of fishing and personally I love the challenge of getting a fish to take a fly because they want it, not because I passed it through their mouths luckily and it snagged them.
Took me a while to realize that legit fly-fishing for Kings is a lofty goal. My personal experience, I was only able to get a king while sight fishing with a HUGE streamer. The fish was being aggressive/territorial and chased it down. Every other time I've tried this method the fish just don't seem interested but the streamers I used were much smaller. As far as using egg patterns, I also have had no success with Kings as I do with steelhead using an indicator rig. The "flossing" or "chuck and duck" method I've witnessed other fly-fisherman use for kings to me just isn't legit. I believe DNR rules state that the fish must "willingly take the hook in it's mouth" and those methods don't abide by that rule. My thoughts on it are, fish how you want as long as it's legal and not snagging/flossing. Just my 2 cents. On a side note: I went a friend one time who did this "chuck and duck" method with some big heavy pencil like lead weights, a fly rod and a small egg pattern on the end. Was super disappointed to see this was how he was landing so many kings.
So my pals and I fly fishing for the kings with size 6 flies and 10/12 lb leader are not as sporting as floating big globs of spawn on 20 lb leader. To each his own
It's about intention and technique, not tackle or bait used. 99% of people fly fishing with light leader and small flies as you described are flossing. This is debatably unsporting and technically illegal in Michigan.
It's not just fly fishing. I've seen spay or I call it gay spay is flossing long distance and the bobber down put it in there face vertically there all full of shit. Fly fish all you want ftl
That's why I focus on steelheads on the fly rods rather than the salmons. I would only go out for salmon ONCE per year for a warm up, and you know, it's always been a headache to see so so so so many people catching and kept the dark salmons. Lucky enough, steelhead is not that easy to chase!
Thanks for this. I’m done with the Betsie, too many people flossing and taking shit to my friends and I about using thundersticks and spinners. Crazy how ignorant people are, even at old age.
I'm continually impressed by your fishing maturity, Fray! They say that there are 4 stages in fishing. First - you want to catch a fish. Second - you want to catch a lot of fish. Third - You want to catch the biggest fish... and finally you want to know that your actually fooling the fish into biting, which is where the "sport" part comes in. Flossing and snagging is what stage 1 and 2 fishermen do because they don't really care HOW they catch the fish. For someone as young as you to have already advanced to stage 4 is quite a feat! Out here on the west coast, most young guys want to impress their buddies and hook as many fish as the can... thinking they possess some kind of special skill. I went through all of this too and like you, I get much more satisfaction out of knowing that I actually caught the fish instead of snagging it. Keep up the good work! I really enjoy your videos!
Agree I watched many Michigan Steelheaders floss kings and steelhead. That’s how I was taught by members of Michigan steelheaders . I did tight line for years running with 6lb test and 4 and floated spawn underground bobber . Lots of fun , but my true love is casting off the pier .
Thank you for making this video! There are a lot of people who only floss and say similar things that they don't need that many fish in the streams to keep the population stable, and also that they will die in the end. Which I'm glad you said is backed by science. You also mentioned how there are moral and ethical issues with that method of fishing and I totally agree, so thank you for making this video!! I've seen a lot of your videos and you have inspired me to go out and try to catch some of my own on spinner or spawn.
I usually catch and release the salmon I catch but most of them are flossed which is really sad because all the rivers near me that are fished for salmon are so heavily pressured that the fish will not bite because of being so line shy.
I try to schedule a few vacation days during the run to hit one of the less popular rivers on the weekday. I have had a few legit bites on lures, and find the fish easier to hook when not spooked, which gives me the impression that at least some of them are legit takes.
First off, love Michigan! I'm leaving tomorrow for my annual trip with my best friend, 6th year in a row! You can floss fish with a spinning rod. Add some weight (even let it slide on your line) and a long leader, it's the same thing (I've seen a ton of that). I only fish with a fly rod. I'm that guy, but it's all I know. I never fish chuck and duck. I run floating line (butt-section, tippet are 12' max -or- sink-tip line (max 6 foot leader). I run bobbers (they are not strike indicators;) with various things suspended in the column, exactly like you would with a rod. I run streamers with action to get that aggressive bite, just like a spinner/T-stick. I just don't fish the shallow, rocky, spawning beds. We river-rat all day to find holes and runs. Just thought I'd comment, because I don't want to disrespect the waters and fish. I want to do it the right way.
I agree 100% about the fly fishing. I fish NY rivers, mostly Salmon river so this is way too common. It's not as blatant as the full on snaggers but most fly guys will act above everybody else when in reality they are just using the most effective and sneakiest way to floss. The biggest shame in our way over fished rivers is I don't see it changing because there is no room for everyone to float skien or chuck plugs. Very little opportunity during salmon season to find productive water with enough room to actually drift. Even steelhead season is too busy here and often makes it hard to roam and fish around. Often have to find a good spot and stake your claim. Our regs here are tighter than most places too so there are many very effective techniques that even if we had room to fish em, are illegal. I do very little salmon fishing here anymore because it's a zoo and zero solitude. Doesn't feel like fishing.
Loved this video, until this past fall of 2022 I was pretty oblivious to the flossing rig being a flossing rig. Even to the point of running it for the migratory Great Lakes trout. Information like this is what brought me over to the side of lures/float and this past 22/23 season has been my best so far. Your awesome informative videos definitely were the #1 when it came to influencing me to make the switch so I can’t thank you enough! Don’t stop man, keep up the good work💪
Thank you for explaining this flossing. I could not understand how people were catching huge salmon when I could easily see them dodging my spinner and getting spooked every time. They just wouldn't attack it.
It's called flop n plopping! 😔 very sad. It's become a thing on the river here. It's terrible. I fly fish but I fly fish with a spey setup so there is no flop n plop b.s going on. People need to learn to fish the proper way. You have a great opportunity to do so with how many viewers you have. Please don't give up fly fishing. 🙏
Good stuff. I always fished the East coast of Michigan during the fall run. We did run our charter boat for 10 years out of Onekama with great success. Moved out of state for work in the 90’s and now live in southern Indiana. I’m headed up that way in September and looking for a place to launch and fish from my kayak. More towards river mouths and harbors. I custom make baits and paint baits. I was challenged to see if I can catch some fish on my own creations. Any suggestions where a kayak angler can make it happen? I may start at Manistee and work my way down the coast till I find or am told of a decent and safe place to try.
I fly fish on a lake Ontario trib for salmon in the fall. If you stand upstream and cast downstream with the right fly you won't be flossing. I use black hairwing flies. Bite, in the mouth everytime.
Great video, good info and thanks for picking up after the low life's, I do the same where I live but, I'm losing the battle. I used to pick up a worm container or two and some monofilament balled up on the shore but, it's become a garbage bag worth of stuff on each trip. Central NY used to be a nice, people have become extremely lazy and just don't care about anything but themselves. Future generations will never know what once was.
Even though you will see some people flossing using using fly gear, a lot of people are actually getting the fish to bite using shorter leaders, which is a completely different game. Coho and pink salmon take flies when using the right techniques. You will feel clear bites when they grab the fly. You can even sight fish for them sometimes. With Kings, it can be harder to get them to bite, but it definitely can be done using bigger flies. Just wanted to point out that there are definitely ways of doing fly fishing for salmon more ethically without flossing.
No reason people need to stop fly fishing for Salmon. Stay off the reds, indicator setup the deep holes, or better yet learn how to swing. Nowadays, everything is “for the gram” and I’m convinced more people are into trying to just catch something for social media attention rather than the true appreciation of fishing for these fish and being out in the natural element. Not everyone but a growing number. I see some of these people who post in these Facebook groups and most of these posters make you cringe. Not trying to stereotype but everyone knows the demographic I’m describing.
Hey Fray! Whats up Bro? Great video, going up to fish the Pere Marquette with Brady in November. Need to pm you, going to 4 days and need some guidance.
Yeah I'll leave the fly rods to fish for resident trout, smallmouth bass and the odd steelhead trip. I don't agree with flossing at all and personally believe the salmon should be left alone once they get up in the tribs to spawn. I have a feeling if most fisherman made their way to Canadian side of the great lakes people would change their minds as well. 100s of fish cut open for the spawn but it's not just females as people don't seem to be able to tell the difference between males and females. It's disgusting.
Thank you,awesome video,takes great person to speak up & speak out,fly fishing for kings isn't a numbers game,in the Pacific Northwest were I live fly fish is a tradition & lot of fun fishing for salmon,as far as reeds or pared salmon or stellies,very very controversial subject matter,mostly done because of lack of knowledge about the effects on fish numbers,tight lines & bent rods 🤙
I haven’t had much luck using streamers for kings. I’ve gotten pinks and Atlantic’s to chase but if I were you I’d look into patterns by Kelly Galloup, Russ Maddin, and Tommy Lynch. I know some people have limited success getting kings on stripped streamers that more imitate a crank bait.
Takes 75-100 pairs to successfully repopulate the river. At least that’s what I was told by an old timer who was good friends with Tonello back in the day. Great video by the way! Some people just want to hook fish, so they floss. I prefer to catch them, so I float skein and toss hardware.
I think most of us started like that with the fly rod until u realized u snagging more than what u catching for the mouth , until u start fishing with skein on bobbers hair jigs, or cranks u will notice the real difference bro now u a real catching fishing, thanks for the video and love those bobbers down amigo 💯🎣👌🔥
Im 24, i m a trucker. Im from the Virginia 757. So all we do is salt water and large mouth. Since im a trucker im mostly in the north mid west now and have been targeting salmon and trout only a fly rod. I have experience in the moutains. But it’s different here to me. Im going on my first trip in Houghton since i delivery there. This has gave me a some hope. Thank you for your time.
Liked and loved. The worst is when the flygobblers profess superiority without flossing. I used to be good at this too w corkies or beads on a three way rig with about a 6 -7 foot leader and about a 5 inch dropper w a small weight. Some ppl still think you cant get a salmon to bite...its tough but possible.
I appreciate what you are doing as far as educating anglers about flossing and ethical angling for kings in rivers. What you haven't mentioned in any videos is the fact that it is illegal in MI. As far as I read the definition of snagging in the regulations, flossing qualifies as snagging as the fish is not "voluntarily" taking the bait/hook. I know it's hard to prove and controversial but it's true and if you know, you know!
Since its impossible to prove, its unenforceable. COs can ticket you for "attempt to snag" based on frequent hooksets, or "no bait on hook", but COs will watch dozens of flossers doing their thing in a line and not cite them for anything. Whether it SHOULD be legal or not to floss salmon is an interesting topic for sure.
I agree that COs rarely enforce this fact. I guess my point is that you have this platform that reaches tens of thousands of anglers and are saying that you are trying to change the cultural here in MI around salmon angling in rivers, so why not just inform them that if they are intentionally flossing they are breaking the law? I'm assuming that would change the minds of more anglers than just saying it's controversial. Unless you're worried about losing subscribers and views?
@@woods2waters128 I think if its that serious, Its up to the DNR to make a statement about flossing being illegal, not me. That would be a big call to make as the vast majority of river salmon participation in Michigan is flossing. All I'm trying to do is start a conversation that could lead to a better and more respectful use of the river salmon fishery, nothing more than that.
After many years of fly fishing the Great Lakes for Salmon and Steelhead I gave up targeting Salmon on a fly for this exact same reason. Today I mainly swing for Steelhead and Ive just got myself a centerpin rod to proper target other species or even Steelhead in crowded conditions (it sucks to be the fly guy tqking the entire pool to swing where other people want to fish) Good vid bud
I fish out west and have seen springs attack a fly. They go crazy for them. When a hook is inside the fishes mouth it means that the fishes devoured it. All salmon take the fly in the swing.
I would argue that fishing for spawning salmon with things that they chase down and eat is not wrong. I personally really enjoy getting kings to chase down thunder sticks on gravel. And i don’t see a problem with it if you catch and release as well.
I always thought this too. I find it awesome watching a salmon or steelhead chase a spinner a long way. Never understood why it was more moral to pick off fish in the pool below gravel which is holding fish that are about to spawn/spawning and how it was immoral to fish for spawning fish
In Washington state, we floss. But eggs and bobber along with spinner work but in THIS floss world you can't plunk or use spinner because your casting into flossers gear. Also we don't keep those Black fish. Also those king's look like what we call a Tully King They have a bigger anal fin and adipose fin in The salt They still chrome And have that off orange meat that turns white when you cook it. They are fish that tend to go up The Rivers that Are closer to the ocean, but mostly our coastal Chinook are what we fish for. And silver's you want a good fight with salmon the Chum in the river's here put up the pound for pound fight giant teeth but you catch that chrome Chum it's really good to smoke. I Wish people could post photos on TH-cam or I'd have a Photo of a dog-chum salmon. For you.
That's a problem here too, there are many spots that you could do extremely well float fishing or casting lures but it would be impossible to get a presentation with the amount of flossers 24/7. However they have the same right to be fishing these Rivers as anyone else as long as they are doing it legally
I fish flies. I don't use a leader. Straight line with 2 small split shot. I use to jerk and floss. Now I don't. I have seen them hit the flies all day until you get the group that yanks up. Id offer this for skein fishing. There's not enough eggs for everybody to use.
I think this is a good point too. If everyone skein fished, where is all the bait coming from? Large 12-16mm beads are a great alternative to bait under a float and are starting to catch on as a productive method here
People floss all over the place. Wherever there is fish. It’s not just a Michigan thing. People in Washington just call it drift fishing and tell themselves the fish are biting they’re yarn or little beads.
Try a Purple Wooly Bugger for Kings. I strip it 3x’s and pause. Everytime I pause the 3rd strip I usually get crushed by a king. That’s my go to for fly fishing for kings.
I have watched you when you first started fly fishing. You make some great points because many people do intentionally floss. My only concern is that fly fishing is not the issue. I see people use spinning and chuck right to salmon to snag or floss. I have also seen in my 11 seasons salmon turning around to chase and bite. It's not the method you choose, it's your true intentions and how you are doing it. I have caught salmon fly fishing in all types of water and you know if they bite vs floss depending on how the fish react when hooked. Flossed fish I usually see flopping and jumping since they didn't bite. Fish that bit know they are hooked and start shaking their head. Again. Doesn't hold true for everyone but I would say salmon do bite and they don't have to be hungry. I do appreciate you letting people know that they shouldn't just try to snag or floss. If fly fishing high sticking will get bites and you need to change patterns often to get hits. Keep doing what you doing and thanks for the videos and input in each video.
I appreciate your insight, of course it is not only fly fisherman and I should have mentioned that. I would disagree with what you say about how the fish act when hooked: based on my experience, for me flossed fish will come up headshaking just like normal, whereas a foul hooked fish will run or jump. Intention of your method and how you drift is for sure the most important factor, you are right
Flossing is not in the rig it's in the technique. Using an indicator could be seen as a method to avoid flossing if you are attempting to fish vertically on a dead drift rather than dragging horizontally
I started watching your channel for steelhead fishing and have enjoyed it immensely. I support your choice to fish anyway you choose to fish, but criticizing how someone else chooses to catch fish is not good for the sport. After reading the comments I see there’s a lot of self righteous people on this channel. I have salmon fished for over a decade and can count on one hand how many fish were fairly caught on crank baits, but I’ve seen hundreds of fish drug in with crank baits in their back’s and tails. So for people to look down their noses at the “floss” fishing is extremely hypocritical! As a fishing community we should stick together and not be so self righteous about our preferred legal way of fishing. Hunting has been affected by the self righteous QDM folks, let’s not start that in the fishing community!
I try to state it as I feel: I don't judge others for doing it, but I choose not to do it myself for the stated reasons. Some will see that as self-righteous but I don't. Regardless I still think it's an important discussion to have so that's why I bring it up.
@@FishFray having a discussion is great and each person should fish how they want to fish legally without other’s judgment. The point I’m making is like in the bow hunting community, traditional archery looks down and criticizes crossbow hunters even though it’s perfectly legal. It’s not good for the sport for infighting about a perfectly legal way to hunt or fish. I think that you are doing a good job on trying to keep neutral and have a honest conversation but not everyone does this. Keep up the good work on you channel!
You can buy lips to add to flys when your tying them, this makes them wobble like plugs and are quite common in the uk/Europe. I think Bob popovits (?) does a lot with them on your side of the pond, Great vid btw👍
Agreed, it’s so bad on betsie river, when I’m just trying to get a bite because I KNOW I can and dudes just come with his weight fly and just tail hook in a popular hole. Just ruins the bite. Now I see the salmon trying to avoid any type of lure. Sad to see tbh.
I've had the same experience many times, it's super frustrating and that's why I try to bring more awareness to it with my videos. However, these guys have the same right to fish these spots and rivers as anyone as long as their tackle is legal
@@FishFray yea me and my cousins we’re always open to let people fish with us because there’s plenty of fish, and yea that’s also one of the reasons too when I fish at the rivers just to show people the bite to encourage others that its a lot of fun feeling the head shake and etc.
Great video, I appreciate you taking the time to educate fisherman who may not know any better. I don’t fly fish much anymore for kings, you got me skein fishing for them 2 years ago!! But back when I fly fished I used an indicator rig and have seen several examples of where a king would chase down my egg sucking leech or bugger with a vengeance. It’s kind of a like a streamer I suppose. But truthfully I’m not so sure any salmon ever bite small patterns like glo bugs or eggs.
Right on! I believe they will occasionally bite a small egg imitation. But there is a reason no one is legitimately indicator fishing vertically and off the bottom. If there was true belief that the egg flys, nymphs, etc would trigger a bite, you would see indicators being used for a drag free drift. But everyone knows a horizontal presentation bouncing bottom opens up the opportunity for a floss, hence the vast majority of fisherman using this method! Yet they will still discuss the fantasy experience of how a king just "smashed" their fly, or how switching the fly suddenly causes the pod of kings they are ripping to start biting... ok, rant over!
@@FishFray totally agree!! I fish western NY every year for big lake run brown trout which is one reason I used to turn over an indicator rig but it’s more or less combat fishing at times with many people around. Can’t tell you how many times a fly fisherman will floss one and brag to everyone about the fish smashing their tiny nymph. It’s my pet peeve. Now I just float skein amongst the crowd and tick people off when it’s not uncommon to hook 12-15 skein fish a day. Love your content my friend keep it up👍🏻
After spending a few years fishing for Great Lakes salmon and seeing it all happen, I like to use this platform to share my thoughts and opinions about the whole situation. These are my opinions on some of my most asked questions and comments. Let me know what you think!
Could you please give a propeller fly? it has a propeller in the head of a fly like an inline spinner.
It's a hybrid between a spinner and a fly, specially in front of a wollybugger or an intruder
@@MrSurfangler I have considered something like this !
Great talk!!!!!!! Thx 4 that PSA!!
I think someones tryna to run scams in your comment section
how long your leader is and are you using a sinkt tip
Catching big King's on the fly in a small river would be awesome! " Bucketlist " proper flyfishing not flossing/ snatching 👊
Nice meeting you shocking the AuSable. Enjoy your videos. Though I’d comment on salmon fishing with flies. I’ve found two techniques that do not foul hook or “line” fish in the mouth. Both result in fair takes. One is to dead drift nymph patterns through holding water when the salmon first arrive in the river. Small size ten Caddis are very productive.
The second is to swing flies below redds when aggressive males are jockeying for position. These males will chase and nip at the flies to chase them away. I’ve watched them take my flies many times so I know they are not getting “lined”. While these takes are often soft and result in fish getting off, the takes are legitimate. I also avoid swinging across the redds bu casting above and beyond the redd so the fly drifts below where fish are actively spawning. Catching salmon on a fly is very challenging and fun. That’s why I gave up lures and bait and won’t go back.
Nice to meet you too. Well said! Seems it is all about the intention of how you fish them. Thanks for the tips
@@FishFray hopefully this will help others that want to try salmon on a fly. Best to you David
Good on you for speaking out on the flossing issues. We have it with different techniques, and straight up people snagging fish, here in the PNW. This is also one of the main reasons I float fish 90% of the time. One of the best quotes one of my fishing buddies told me once, "I'm looking for willing participants".
black rabbit strip on a keel hook w/ a muddler type head,they have to actually eat it to get hooked,only 3-4 eats/day but they're legit,can't line or foul them w/ the keel hook
Keel hook style is a great idea, thanks!
@@FishFray , On the fly its not a numbers game , plus can we truly swing accurately?
To swing a fly in front of a fish with the right speed and in the strikezone requires a lot of control and takes a lifetime to achieve it.
Even for guides in the west-coast who are masters at this their numbers are 1-10 when compared to gear fishermen . [These numbers were shared by famous fly guides in Alaska on remote stretches).
I had these kings take wollybuggers(Even seen a hen charge my fly from 6-9ft of distance it actuallty followed and dove down) to zug-bugs while euro-nymphing for them.(Generally just a fish or two for 8hrs+of fishing) .
I have seen fly fishermen take these salmon on intruder style flys quite effectively at night when they move through flat stretches of the river , they rest/halt in small pockets for a few moments and will swipe at any fly ,I initially thought he was just flossing them but every hookup was an engulfed fly. He was very willing to pass on the info and even showed me the technique I saw the take in the rod tip it was that violent
Just curious do you have any tips or tricks for making sure the bait isn't going under the fish out rivers are so low that by the time my float rig is all set up and I attach the leader I'm to deep any tips will help thank you
Hi, I live in NE Indiana. Do you guide on any rivers?
I'm not doing any guiding this season
Hey man I just wanted to say thank you this video really hit home with me I got into a big argument with my buddy the other day about it the whole flossing technique. I was able to let him hear what you said and explain to him that I learned a lot about fishing for these fish through your channel. He’s unwilling to put the time into fishing properly with a float
I know plenty of guys like this, and I get why they just want to floss the fish in front of them. It's their choice how they want to fish, but if you're sharing a hole with them, once they start flossing on them or foul hooking them they are putting the hole down and your chances of getting a legit biting fish go way down, so it's frustrating.
@@FishFray Whats the flossing technique i am very confused is it when you snag a fish in its mouth
@@like8749 sort of. Usually, you'll use a good bit of weight and a long leader, so the weights are 2' or more above your hook. Idea is you throw it out, let the current carry it along the bottom where the fish sit and hope the line between the hook and weights goes into the fish's mouth so when you lift up to throw it back up stream you pull it tight and bury the hook into their mouth, or the current will pull the hook to the fishes mouth and you'll feel a head shake as it tries to clear it.
The main reason flossing is questionable is because like you said it's pretty much snagging them in the mouth. There are ways to avoid relying on flossing with a fly rod, and still be successful, most people simply won't do it because they either don't know how or don't care. Snagging used to be legal in a lot of the Great Lakes states until the mid 90's and a lot of the people you'll see out on the rivers remember when it was legal and hate that it was banned. Flossing is their way of getting around the regulations against snagging, unfortunately it's also what they are teaching new people trying their hand at catching Salmon.
@@Triberius Woww That sucks
Dang bro he needs to relax and give it a try
It took me two years to land my first Salmon. I was taught right away from a group of friends who started taking me out that we don't fish spawning fish, and we don't chuck and duck. I've used Skein, Spawn, Spinners and Cranks and most of that was because of this channel. So I appreciate all the work you put into these videos.
Thats awesome
Some heroes wear waders! Haha. You’re awesome, didn’t exactly build my confidence before my trip next week lol but all I got is a fly rod and a dream! Hopefully make it happen again this year 💪
It has been a great run this year, I'm sure you will do fine !
I learned flossing as well when I started. After a few years it seemed wrong as you said. If you spend enough time on the water you learn. Thanks for talking about this. Different strokes for different folks. Tight lines and thanks for the awesome footage!!!!
Interesting perspective - agree that flossing is far too common - but IMO I've seen far more people targeting spawning fish who are not fly fisherman, both in MI and NY - heavy lures with trebles are pretty much the worst culprit and you see it on fish who have had fin after fin ripped. If they are using a fly rod, but not using fly line, that doesn't immediately mean they are a 'fly fisherman' either. I fish indicator rigs on switch rods with floating lines and have caught salmon using stoneflies, egg patterns and streamers - little to no weight - never had an issue finding fresh kings who are willing to take - you have to search more, but you do get active takes (landing is another matter). In my view, no different from fishing with a bead, or drifting skein through every inch of a hole on a small creek - its more the intent (hooking by sight fishing vs fishing). I quite happily will fish a spinner, bead or crank bait - to me its all about the fair play of a fish actively feeding (or aggression striking) and I enjoy the challenge of landing a fish on a fly rod.
Who cares about catching a fish it's all about just being there and seeing everything the sound of the water running over the rocks just being in nature. Living the way man should.. a fish is just a bonus... And u probably will catch more fish this way because ur not trying so hard . kinda like u want it but u don't... I could live there and do 24/7
Flossing def goes on and plenty of snagging as well but Im tired of crank and or skein/bead fisherman saying that salmon wont take an egg fly or swung streamer. Theyre analogous approaches to triggering the same strile impulses. Why dont we all just stop fishing em altogether😝🤷🏻♂️
Awesome video Fray 👍👍
Thanks!!!
My first year out I was just fishing with inline spinners and had to chase a few people out who were snagging. I still only like to use inline spinners but what I’ve started doing is making my own inline spinners except I use fly lures for a hook. I started just cutting off treble hooks and adding a store bought fly but now I’m trying to get into tying my own flies just so I can make bigger single hooks for salmon fishing. Great video! If you ever get time get some snap rings grab a couple rooster tails cut the treble hooks off and add a fly lure for a trailer. It’s really fun and so much better for the fish
My first year out I was just fishing with inline spinners and had to chase a few people out who were snagging. I still only like to use inline spinners but what I’ve started doing is making my own inline spinners except I use fly lures for a hook. I started just cutting off treble hooks and adding a store bought fly but now I’m trying to get into tying my own flies just so I can make bigger single hooks for salmon fishing. Great video! If you ever get time get some snap rings grab a couple rooster tails cut the treble hooks off and add a fly lure for a trailer. It’s really fun and so much better for the fish
Always enjoyed watching your videos, Fray. I share the same passion as you do in fishing ethically no matter if it’s fly fishing, centrepin or casting out in the lake. As long as you treat these fish with respect and fish for them the right way, it’s a blessing to be apart of. Always know when I watch a video from you that it’s going to be a good one. Big fan, keep going forward Fray.
Thanks ! Saw you got some nice bobber downs recently too, hope you had a great season!
@@FishFray Thanks Fray, had a decent salmon season so far, now that they are in spawning mode and moved to the gravel beds, I leave them alone. Waiting for some rain to bring on the steelhead and browns. Thanks for stopping by .
im from the pnw, where we have some rivers that flossing is the only thing people do on them to catch fish. What i dont understand is why people are going through these lengths in Michigan to floss spawning fish? like the quality of meet is just not it. the rivers being flossed in pnw are at least bright fish fresh from the ocean?
I was just watching some of your older black streamers for coho.
And you got a Atlantic in one...
I didn't think it looked like you were flossing those ...
Please keep your streamer videos 🙏 i appreciate them greatly.
I love tying my own and i plan to tie a few of the black with green eyes that you posted.
I love fly fishing by the spawning salmon. Except I use an egg pattern and fish below them trying to get a steelhead. I agree, the flossing of salmon with a fly rod is very easy to do and I have seen it with spinning rods and idiots with braided line and a weighted hook. No too mention the braided line left behind is great for cutting through our waders. Comes down to personal ethics of fishing and personally I love the challenge of getting a fish to take a fly because they want it, not because I passed it through their mouths luckily and it snagged them.
Took me a while to realize that legit fly-fishing for Kings is a lofty goal. My personal experience, I was only able to get a king while sight fishing with a HUGE streamer. The fish was being aggressive/territorial and chased it down. Every other time I've tried this method the fish just don't seem interested but the streamers I used were much smaller. As far as using egg patterns, I also have had no success with Kings as I do with steelhead using an indicator rig. The "flossing" or "chuck and duck" method I've witnessed other fly-fisherman use for kings to me just isn't legit. I believe DNR rules state that the fish must "willingly take the hook in it's mouth" and those methods don't abide by that rule. My thoughts on it are, fish how you want as long as it's legal and not snagging/flossing. Just my 2 cents.
On a side note: I went a friend one time who did this "chuck and duck" method with some big heavy pencil like lead weights, a fly rod and a small egg pattern on the end. Was super disappointed to see this was how he was landing so many kings.
Careful grabbing them tails!
Good reminder at this point in the season
So my pals and I fly fishing for the kings with size 6 flies and 10/12 lb leader are not as sporting as floating big globs of spawn on 20 lb leader. To each his own
It's about intention and technique, not tackle or bait used. 99% of people fly fishing with light leader and small flies as you described are flossing. This is debatably unsporting and technically illegal in Michigan.
love the info buddy heading to pulaski this year for a week gonna try not to floss for the first time using what i learned from you buddy
It's not just fly fishing. I've seen spay or I call it gay spay is flossing long distance and the bobber down put it in there face vertically there all full of shit. Fly fish all you want ftl
That's why I focus on steelheads on the fly rods rather than the salmons. I would only go out for salmon ONCE per year for a warm up, and you know, it's always been a headache to see so so so so many people catching and kept the dark salmons. Lucky enough, steelhead is not that easy to chase!
Steelhead are easier to floss then salmon just saying especially in eries system
Steelhead season cant come soon enough!
Thanks for this. I’m done with the Betsie, too many people flossing and taking shit to my friends and I about using thundersticks and spinners. Crazy how ignorant people are, even at old age.
Not always fly fisherman flossing fish, I always see spinning guys flossing and snagging them. I fly fish for kings but I do it on the swing!
I'm continually impressed by your fishing maturity, Fray! They say that there are 4 stages in fishing. First - you want to catch a fish. Second - you want to catch a lot of fish. Third - You want to catch the biggest fish... and finally you want to know that your actually fooling the fish into biting, which is where the "sport" part comes in. Flossing and snagging is what stage 1 and 2 fishermen do because they don't really care HOW they catch the fish. For someone as young as you to have already advanced to stage 4 is quite a feat! Out here on the west coast, most young guys want to impress their buddies and hook as many fish as the can... thinking they possess some kind of special skill. I went through all of this too and like you, I get much more satisfaction out of knowing that I actually caught the fish instead of snagging it. Keep up the good work! I really enjoy your videos!
Agree I watched many Michigan Steelheaders floss kings and steelhead. That’s how I was taught by members of Michigan steelheaders . I did tight line for years running with 6lb test and 4 and floated spawn underground bobber . Lots of fun , but my true love is casting off the pier .
Thank you for making this video! There are a lot of people who only floss and say similar things that they don't need that many fish in the streams to keep the population stable, and also that they will die in the end. Which I'm glad you said is backed by science. You also mentioned how there are moral and ethical issues with that method of fishing and I totally agree, so thank you for making this video!! I've seen a lot of your videos and you have inspired me to go out and try to catch some of my own on spinner or spawn.
I usually catch and release the salmon I catch but most of them are flossed which is really sad because all the rivers near me that are fished for salmon are so heavily pressured that the fish will not bite because of being so line shy.
I try to schedule a few vacation days during the run to hit one of the less popular rivers on the weekday. I have had a few legit bites on lures, and find the fish easier to hook when not spooked, which gives me the impression that at least some of them are legit takes.
Ok..nice catch. I would love to go fishing with grand kids. I haven't fished in many years.
Enjoy your skills.
Nice video bro , what location? I’m live New York
Didn’t you take the addicted guys out fishing ?
First off, love Michigan! I'm leaving tomorrow for my annual trip with my best friend, 6th year in a row! You can floss fish with a spinning rod. Add some weight (even let it slide on your line) and a long leader, it's the same thing (I've seen a ton of that). I only fish with a fly rod. I'm that guy, but it's all I know. I never fish chuck and duck. I run floating line (butt-section, tippet are 12' max -or- sink-tip line (max 6 foot leader). I run bobbers (they are not strike indicators;) with various things suspended in the column, exactly like you would with a rod. I run streamers with action to get that aggressive bite, just like a spinner/T-stick. I just don't fish the shallow, rocky, spawning beds. We river-rat all day to find holes and runs. Just thought I'd comment, because I don't want to disrespect the waters and fish. I want to do it the right way.
I use fly only as well and couldn't agree more with you.
I agree 100% about the fly fishing. I fish NY rivers, mostly Salmon river so this is way too common. It's not as blatant as the full on snaggers but most fly guys will act above everybody else when in reality they are just using the most effective and sneakiest way to floss. The biggest shame in our way over fished rivers is I don't see it changing because there is no room for everyone to float skien or chuck plugs. Very little opportunity during salmon season to find productive water with enough room to actually drift. Even steelhead season is too busy here and often makes it hard to roam and fish around. Often have to find a good spot and stake your claim. Our regs here are tighter than most places too so there are many very effective techniques that even if we had room to fish em, are illegal. I do very little salmon fishing here anymore because it's a zoo and zero solitude. Doesn't feel like fishing.
00:33 salmon runs up behind him 😂
Didn't notice this until this comments!
Everyone has to start somewhere, but quickly graduate to streamers or center pin with skein. Chuck and duck takes no skill…
right on..
@@FishFray well maybe dodging the 2 ounce hunk of lead hurling back at you after you hang that snagging rig in a tree. 🤣 that takes some skill.
Loved this video, until this past fall of 2022 I was pretty oblivious to the flossing rig being a flossing rig. Even to the point of running it for the migratory Great Lakes trout. Information like this is what brought me over to the side of lures/float and this past 22/23 season has been my best so far. Your awesome informative videos definitely were the #1 when it came to influencing me to make the switch so I can’t thank you enough! Don’t stop man, keep up the good work💪
Thank you for explaining this flossing. I could not understand how people were catching huge salmon when I could easily see them dodging my spinner and getting spooked every time. They just wouldn't attack it.
It's called flop n plopping! 😔 very sad. It's become a thing on the river here. It's terrible. I fly fish but I fly fish with a spey setup so there is no flop n plop b.s going on. People need to learn to fish the proper way. You have a great opportunity to do so with how many viewers you have. Please don't give up fly fishing. 🙏
Good stuff. I always fished the East coast of Michigan during the fall run. We did run our charter boat for 10 years out of Onekama with great success. Moved out of state for work in the 90’s and now live in southern Indiana. I’m headed up that way in September and looking for a place to launch and fish from my kayak. More towards river mouths and harbors. I custom make baits and paint baits. I was challenged to see if I can catch some fish on my own creations. Any suggestions where a kayak angler can make it happen? I may start at Manistee and work my way down the coast till I find or am told of a decent and safe place to try.
I fly fish on a lake Ontario trib for salmon in the fall.
If you stand upstream and cast downstream with the right fly you won't be flossing.
I use black hairwing flies.
Bite, in the mouth everytime.
Great video, good info and thanks for picking up after the low life's, I do the same where I live but, I'm losing the battle. I used to pick up a worm container or two and some monofilament balled up on the shore but, it's become a garbage bag worth of stuff on each trip. Central NY used to be a nice, people have become extremely lazy and just don't care about anything but themselves. Future generations will never know what once was.
Even though you will see some people flossing using using fly gear, a lot of people are actually getting the fish to bite using shorter leaders, which is a completely different game. Coho and pink salmon take flies when using the right techniques. You will feel clear bites when they grab the fly. You can even sight fish for them sometimes. With Kings, it can be harder to get them to bite, but it definitely can be done using bigger flies. Just wanted to point out that there are definitely ways of doing fly fishing for salmon more ethically without flossing.
No reason people need to stop fly fishing for Salmon. Stay off the reds, indicator setup the deep holes, or better yet learn how to swing. Nowadays, everything is “for the gram” and I’m convinced more people are into trying to just catch something for social media attention rather than the true appreciation of fishing for these fish and being out in the natural element. Not everyone but a growing number. I see some of these people who post in these Facebook groups and most of these posters make you cringe. Not trying to stereotype but everyone knows the demographic I’m describing.
Hey Fray! Whats up Bro? Great video, going up to fish the Pere Marquette with Brady in November. Need to pm you, going to 4 days and need some guidance.
Yeah I'll leave the fly rods to fish for resident trout, smallmouth bass and the odd steelhead trip. I don't agree with flossing at all and personally believe the salmon should be left alone once they get up in the tribs to spawn. I have a feeling if most fisherman made their way to Canadian side of the great lakes people would change their minds as well. 100s of fish cut open for the spawn but it's not just females as people don't seem to be able to tell the difference between males and females. It's disgusting.
Thank you,awesome video,takes great person to speak up & speak out,fly fishing for kings isn't a numbers game,in the Pacific Northwest were I live fly fish is a tradition & lot of fun fishing for salmon,as far as reeds or pared salmon or stellies,very very controversial subject matter,mostly done because of lack of knowledge about the effects on fish numbers,tight lines & bent rods 🤙
I haven’t had much luck using streamers for kings. I’ve gotten pinks and Atlantic’s to chase but if I were you I’d look into patterns by Kelly Galloup, Russ Maddin, and Tommy Lynch. I know some people have limited success getting kings on stripped streamers that more imitate a crank bait.
Takes 75-100 pairs to successfully repopulate the river. At least that’s what I was told by an old timer who was good friends with Tonello back in the day. Great video by the way! Some people just want to hook fish, so they floss. I prefer to catch them, so I float skein and toss hardware.
Salmon fly fishing it's hard! You are doing excellent! Keep the good work
I think most of us started like that with the fly rod until u realized u snagging more than what u catching for the mouth , until u start fishing with skein on bobbers hair jigs, or cranks u will notice the real difference bro now u a real catching fishing, thanks for the video and love those bobbers down amigo 💯🎣👌🔥
Im 24, i m a trucker. Im from the Virginia 757. So all we do is salt water and large mouth. Since im a trucker im mostly in the north mid west now and have been targeting salmon and trout only a fly rod. I have experience in the moutains. But it’s different here to me. Im going on my first trip in Houghton since i delivery there. This has gave me a some hope. Thank you for your time.
Flying fishing when done properly is the best angling method to ensure conservation. Don't throw out the baby with the bath water.
Liked and loved. The worst is when the flygobblers profess superiority without flossing. I used to be good at this too w corkies or beads on a three way rig with about a 6 -7 foot leader and about a 5 inch dropper w a small weight. Some ppl still think you cant get a salmon to bite...its tough but possible.
I appreciate what you are doing as far as educating anglers about flossing and ethical angling for kings in rivers. What you haven't mentioned in any videos is the fact that it is illegal in MI. As far as I read the definition of snagging in the regulations, flossing qualifies as snagging as the fish is not "voluntarily" taking the bait/hook. I know it's hard to prove and controversial but it's true and if you know, you know!
Since its impossible to prove, its unenforceable. COs can ticket you for "attempt to snag" based on frequent hooksets, or "no bait on hook", but COs will watch dozens of flossers doing their thing in a line and not cite them for anything. Whether it SHOULD be legal or not to floss salmon is an interesting topic for sure.
I agree that COs rarely enforce this fact. I guess my point is that you have this platform that reaches tens of thousands of anglers and are saying that you are trying to change the cultural here in MI around salmon angling in rivers, so why not just inform them that if they are intentionally flossing they are breaking the law? I'm assuming that would change the minds of more anglers than just saying it's controversial. Unless you're worried about losing subscribers and views?
@@woods2waters128 I think if its that serious, Its up to the DNR to make a statement about flossing being illegal, not me. That would be a big call to make as the vast majority of river salmon participation in Michigan is flossing. All I'm trying to do is start a conversation that could lead to a better and more respectful use of the river salmon fishery, nothing more than that.
Flossing was a big time move on Reds in Alaska as well...snagging them...drove me nuts seeing this. Great vid.
After many years of fly fishing the Great Lakes for Salmon and Steelhead I gave up targeting Salmon on a fly for this exact same reason. Today I mainly swing for Steelhead and Ive just got myself a centerpin rod to proper target other species or even Steelhead in crowded conditions (it sucks to be the fly guy tqking the entire pool to swing where other people want to fish) Good vid bud
I fish out west and have seen springs attack a fly. They go crazy for them. When a hook is inside the fishes mouth it means that the fishes devoured it. All salmon take the fly in the swing.
😮
Chair looks like someone’s crapper.
Ha , maybe! not anymore
Bro tie a rattle into a streamer and see if that does sumthin aha
I like that idea
@@FishFray idk if anyones ever done it. Probably though
I would argue that fishing for spawning salmon with things that they chase down and eat is not wrong. I personally really enjoy getting kings to chase down thunder sticks on gravel. And i don’t see a problem with it if you catch and release as well.
I think this is fair! Others will disagree
I always thought this too. I find it awesome watching a salmon or steelhead chase a spinner a long way. Never understood why it was more moral to pick off fish in the pool below gravel which is holding fish that are about to spawn/spawning and how it was immoral to fish for spawning fish
Catch and release tires out a spawner. I never do it.
Spawning fish have poor flesh to eat.
There tricky
Looks like an awesome time man! Loving the b-roll. What do you shoot on?
Bro where are you fishing?? I’m live in Chicago!! Great job
Throw that streamer at an angle and do big aggisve strips. Those kings chase off creek cubs all the time. They will crush it.
Thats what I was trying! Maybe next time
Good to see other Ohio based youtubers doing well!
New sub ! Liked 🙏😍✌️🙂👍😉😊
In Washington state, we floss. But eggs and bobber along with spinner work but in THIS floss world you can't plunk or use spinner because your casting into flossers gear. Also we don't keep those Black fish. Also those king's look like what we call a Tully King They have a bigger anal fin and adipose fin in The salt They still chrome And have that off orange meat that turns white when you cook it. They are fish that tend to go up The Rivers that Are closer to the ocean, but mostly our coastal Chinook are what we fish for. And silver's you want a good fight with salmon the Chum in the river's here put up the pound for pound fight giant teeth but you catch that chrome Chum it's really good to smoke. I Wish people could post photos on TH-cam or I'd have a Photo of a dog-chum salmon. For you.
That's a problem here too, there are many spots that you could do extremely well float fishing or casting lures but it would be impossible to get a presentation with the amount of flossers 24/7. However they have the same right to be fishing these Rivers as anyone else as long as they are doing it legally
Great vid and tutorial. Keep on the asshats that litter and ruin our name as anglers. Tight lines.
The kings are big this year
For sure!
Steelies and browns are all i chase on the fly but when the chrome kings are in i will take a trip or 2 to swing for them
Spot on man. I'll stick to the centerpin this time of year and save the fly rod for the back woods brookies.
I fish flies. I don't use a leader. Straight line with 2 small split shot. I use to jerk and floss. Now I don't. I have seen them hit the flies all day until you get the group that yanks up. Id offer this for skein fishing. There's not enough eggs for everybody to use.
I think this is a good point too. If everyone skein fished, where is all the bait coming from? Large 12-16mm beads are a great alternative to bait under a float and are starting to catch on as a productive method here
People floss all over the place. Wherever there is fish. It’s not just a Michigan thing. People in Washington just call it drift fishing and tell themselves the fish are biting they’re yarn or little beads.
They just cant resist!
You’re the man. Wish everyone fished and thought how you do. Thanks fray
Love the videos. What river are you fishing? Betsy?
Even if you didn't pack it in ,make an effort to pack it out 🙏🏽
Try a Purple Wooly Bugger for Kings. I strip it 3x’s and pause. Everytime I pause the 3rd strip I usually get crushed by a king. That’s my go to for fly fishing for kings.
Thanks for the tip!
Hey Fray another great clip ! What line test, leader test and hook size were u using ? Thanks again for posting these clips !
20lb blood run fluoro leaders, for skein i use a 2/0 skeena hook with a size 2 stinger
I have watched you when you first started fly fishing. You make some great points because many people do intentionally floss. My only concern is that fly fishing is not the issue. I see people use spinning and chuck right to salmon to snag or floss. I have also seen in my 11 seasons salmon turning around to chase and bite. It's not the method you choose, it's your true intentions and how you are doing it. I have caught salmon fly fishing in all types of water and you know if they bite vs floss depending on how the fish react when hooked. Flossed fish I usually see flopping and jumping since they didn't bite. Fish that bit know they are hooked and start shaking their head. Again. Doesn't hold true for everyone but I would say salmon do bite and they don't have to be hungry. I do appreciate you letting people know that they shouldn't just try to snag or floss. If fly fishing high sticking will get bites and you need to change patterns often to get hits. Keep doing what you doing and thanks for the videos and input in each video.
I appreciate your insight, of course it is not only fly fisherman and I should have mentioned that. I would disagree with what you say about how the fish act when hooked: based on my experience, for me flossed fish will come up headshaking just like normal, whereas a foul hooked fish will run or jump. Intention of your method and how you drift is for sure the most important factor, you are right
What if you are using a strike indicator with a egg fly? Is that considered flossing? It basically the same as float fishing but with a fly rod
Flossing is not in the rig it's in the technique. Using an indicator could be seen as a method to avoid flossing if you are attempting to fish vertically on a dead drift rather than dragging horizontally
I started watching your channel for steelhead fishing and have enjoyed it immensely. I support your choice to fish anyway you choose to fish, but criticizing how someone else chooses to catch fish is not good for the sport. After reading the comments I see there’s a lot of self righteous people on this channel. I have salmon fished for over a decade and can count on one hand how many fish were fairly caught on crank baits, but I’ve seen hundreds of fish drug in with crank baits in their back’s and tails.
So for people to look down their noses at the “floss” fishing is extremely hypocritical!
As a fishing community we should stick together and not be so self righteous about our preferred legal way of fishing.
Hunting has been affected by the self righteous QDM folks, let’s not start that in the fishing community!
I try to state it as I feel: I don't judge others for doing it, but I choose not to do it myself for the stated reasons. Some will see that as self-righteous but I don't. Regardless I still think it's an important discussion to have so that's why I bring it up.
@@FishFray having a discussion is great and each person should fish how they want to fish legally without other’s judgment. The point I’m making is like in the bow hunting community, traditional archery looks down and criticizes crossbow hunters even though it’s perfectly legal. It’s not good for the sport for infighting about a perfectly legal way to hunt or fish. I think that you are doing a good job on trying to keep neutral and have a honest conversation but not everyone does this.
Keep up the good work on you channel!
what is the name of the river you're fishing in
You can buy lips to add to flys when your tying them, this makes them wobble like plugs and are quite common in the uk/Europe.
I think Bob popovits (?) does a lot with them on your side of the pond,
Great vid btw👍
I have been looking into stuff like this , thanks !
Waow,salmon besar
Fly Fishing steelhead would be more interested than targeting chinook in my opinion. Great video!
I will be fly fishing steel later this fall, for sure!
Don't go to erie pa. 99% of them guys will be flossing steelhead
Ha, I have seen the videos..
How do you go about finding a lot of your fishing spots, I’m assuming using google maps?
Google maps helps to find starting points, but lots of hiking has led to most of the good water I've found. Good luck
Agreed, it’s so bad on betsie river, when I’m just trying to get a bite because I KNOW I can and dudes just come with his weight fly and just tail hook in a popular hole. Just ruins the bite. Now I see the salmon trying to avoid any type of lure. Sad to see tbh.
I've had the same experience many times, it's super frustrating and that's why I try to bring more awareness to it with my videos. However, these guys have the same right to fish these spots and rivers as anyone as long as their tackle is legal
@@FishFray yea me and my cousins we’re always open to let people fish with us because there’s plenty of fish, and yea that’s also one of the reasons too when I fish at the rivers just to show people the bite to encourage others that its a lot of fun feeling the head shake and etc.
Always great content. Landed a king out here on the west coast with an Arctic spinner. They work pretty damn good
That's awesome to hear !
Love my Michigan fishing
What weight spinner or what size please n thankyou great videos fray ❤
5/16 ounce Arctic spinner
Great video, I appreciate you taking the time to educate fisherman who may not know any better. I don’t fly fish much anymore for kings, you got me skein fishing for them 2 years ago!! But back when I fly fished I used an indicator rig and have seen several examples of where a king would chase down my egg sucking leech or bugger with a vengeance. It’s kind of a like a streamer I suppose. But truthfully I’m not so sure any salmon ever bite small patterns like glo bugs or eggs.
Right on! I believe they will occasionally bite a small egg imitation. But there is a reason no one is legitimately indicator fishing vertically and off the bottom. If there was true belief that the egg flys, nymphs, etc would trigger a bite, you would see indicators being used for a drag free drift. But everyone knows a horizontal presentation bouncing bottom opens up the opportunity for a floss, hence the vast majority of fisherman using this method! Yet they will still discuss the fantasy experience of how a king just "smashed" their fly, or how switching the fly suddenly causes the pod of kings they are ripping to start biting... ok, rant over!
@@FishFray totally agree!! I fish western NY every year for big lake run brown trout which is one reason I used to turn over an indicator rig but it’s more or less combat fishing at times with many people around. Can’t tell you how many times a fly fisherman will floss one and brag to everyone about the fish smashing their tiny nymph. It’s my pet peeve. Now I just float skein amongst the crowd and tick people off when it’s not uncommon to hook 12-15 skein fish a day. Love your content my friend keep it up👍🏻
Thanks for sharing
That’s a poopin chair 🪑