Wow, you know, this explains so much about why Molag Bal and Boethiah are considered rivals. Molag Bal is about dominance and tormenting the most devout priest or steadfast warrior. Any person who is strong in any way is fair game to Molag Bal because his ultimate goal is to see them fall from grace. But Boethiah, she wants you to claw your way to victory. She wants you to fight for what's yours, to thrive and become strong. I was always confused as to why these two similar Daedric princess were at odds with each other but now I see why... Boethiah and Molag Bal want you to struggle and resist, and both will show no mercy to anyone. But Boethiah wants you to win. Molag Bal wants you to submit.
In fact it's quite simple. Molag is Prince of Domination, while Boe is Prince of Rebel. They are representing opposing concepts, so they must be rivals.
Bolethia is basically the Daedric Prince of Meritocracy. Everybody must EARN their place in the world. I however personally think that those who worship it should also worship Merida so as to have a more balanced mindset of how to deal with others, as Bothela's obsession with betrayal supposedly being an aspect of meritocracies, which it most certainly is not, needs to be balanced out by a fair bit.
I always wondered what Molag Bal's idea of submitting is. If someone worships him and does everything he says submitting? Is it circumstantial to the person he wants to submit?
Well, Merid-Nudna isn't the best source of balance in field of dealing with others. She thrusted city of her followers into Realm of Molag Bal, because it will gave her tactical advantage in the future. For her the ends justify the means.
@@freddiemight2432 oh yeah, she is a social Darwinist at her core. I'm pretty sure if those souls she damned were to somehow survive she'd praise them. Possibly. It's hard to know with Daedra. After all, Molag Bal praises you in ES Online when you beat him. Soooo... Their characters remain mysterious and unpredictable
_Peace is a lie, there is only passion._ _Through passion, I gain strength._ _Through strength, I gain power._ _Through power, I gain victory._ _Through victory, my chains are broken._ _Boethia shall free me._
There is no passion, there is virtue There is no chaos, only order prevails.There is no emotion, there is peace. I am the heart of Light, I shall fear no evil. The Lord of Hosts shall set me free. There is no death, there is only eternity!.
7:17 Holy sh*t, I didn't know you could see Azura's shrine from Boethiah's If only Mephala also had a shrine in Skyrim, especially where you can see it from the other two reclamations' shrines, then the Dunmer's worship shrines would be complete
I love how Drew keeps switching between "him" and "her", because Boethiah is the only Daedric prince who never seems to stick to just one or the other.
@@jeffreyaguilar8028 Yeah, Mephala is the anticipation of Vivek after all. I think they appear as either male or female based on whichever makes it easier to manipulate the person to whom they appear.
@@jeffreyaguilar8028 @matthewdonnell6906 Actually all but one of the titles of Mephala uses always terms like "Princess", "Queen", "Lady" etc... and in nearly all images and statues she is always a female (well... or a spider... or a mix of the two, but you get it). The only times this doesn't happen is a single title of her, "Androgyne Daedra", and in particular what we could find in a couples of specific in-game book in Morrowind and Skyrim, like "Varieties of Faith..." and "Invocation of Azura". For what i've read in-game and outside about the Lore, i would say that Boethia switch from female to male, so we could say (using modern real life terms) that he/she is "gender fluid", and Mephala is a female but with elements of her aspect also close to males (at least the non-spider parts), so she is indeed an androgyne female, as her titles above says... using real life VIP, Boethia is like Erza Miller, Nico Tortorella or Asia Kate Dillon, Mephala is like Grace Jones or Tilda Swidon
Also, I can’t help but imagine Boethiah’s first words to the soon-to-be Chimer were something along the lines of “Alright, scrubs! Time for some POWER-LEVELING!!!”
Malacath is not so evil prince (in fact Malacath is the prince who aid mortals the most).Unlike Azura, Malacath was never allies with Molag Bal. Boethiah will betray you once you are no use. Boethiah isn’t the most trustworthy prince.
Xander C. Also Boethiah would get along with schemers like Tywin, Littlefinger, Walder Frey, and Roose Bolton. Malacath will get along with Stannis and his daughter because they are outcast.
Azura allying with Molag bal was retconed. Azura being allies with bal is from daggerfall which was retconed. In daggerfall Meridia was the daedric prince of greed and the other daedra had no redeeming qualities, they were essentially demons.
Boethiah doesn't ask for her champions' trust. He/she only asks of them to be the very best (like no one ever was). If someone bests them, then tough shit. They were never worthy in the first place.
In dutch there is a saying "zachte heelmeesters maken stinkende wonden" meaning "kind doctors leave stinking wounds". I think this explains the harsh attitude boethia holds.
This gave me a much higher appreciation for Boethiah and almost outright admiration compared to the other daedra. Great inspection on the lore and philosophy on this one!
I consider Boethiah to be the ultimate amoral pragmatist. Not about good or evil, but about doing things in an efficient manner, even if it looks deplorable to those around you.
Boethiah is such a dark elf deity. She seems like she could be worshipped by literally any group of dark elves in fiction. Druchii from Warhammer fantasy, Drukhari from Warhammer 40k, Drow from DnD and The Wild Hunt from The Witcher. All of them alongside the Dunmer you can easily see as being devoted to the Prince of Plots haha.
rampager gamer Well I mean technically Daedric Prince's can't be evil since they kind of have to do things that represent them. For instance Dagon had to try to destroy Cyrodiil because it's in his nature to bring destruction and change. Molag Bal tried to enslave all of Tamriel because it's in his nature. Daedra have to follow their moral compass rather they want to or not.
CFP Snipe Where are you getting that "they kind of have to do things that represent them?" Talk about what a aedra/daedra represent seem to be more like titles that mortals give to them. They each just take an interest in different things. They have a will and exert it.
Theo_Caro They aren't just titles, everything the aedra and daedra do is written in stone that they must do it. They aren't titles because daedra and aedra have been around before mortals.
The aedra didn't really agree to it, though, they got tricked into creating mundus. They are probably "good guys", though, because they are literally part of mundus. Them destroying mundus would be like you cutting your own finger off. That's why the aedra are the "good guys"
Definitely an interesting way to put it. Every time I see these videos, I gain a new perspective on the gods which i would have never thought about so that's a thumbs up from me.
*Excerpt from a journal found in the stomach of a dragon* Just because it is your blood dripping from the claw doesn't make wrong Boethia's Law. "Some must die, that others may live, that is the law - in polite society we call the survivor "Killer", Boethia bids us to remember from whence came our Dinner." Blessed Kyne brought the game across my path, to Hircine goes the pursuit, to Dagon goes the stag's last breath - the change from life to death, but it is to Boethia that nature preys - it is Boethia's law that nature ALWAYS follows, it is Boethia's law that renders life red in tooth and claw.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 Sheogorath giggling about mad shit in the corner, Sanguine drunk trying To cuddle barbas, Mora face palms, knowing what happens next despite not having a face nor palms, Boethia pitting some mortals to fight like mortals would pit dogs or wolves against each other in a skooma den, Hircine chasing some rabbits, Clavicus and Vaemina betting on challengers in Boethia's mortal fights, Mehrunes and Molag lstening to the screams of mortals like a mortal would Listen to sweet music, Merida walking away trying To ignore the atrocities that are happening in oblivion, the others just messing with their champions or some other mortals for fun
Kailey Barrett Deadric princes are utterly alien to us mortals. They’re divine beings who didn’t take part in creation. They aren’t limited by arrogant mortal notions of morality. They have their own moral values. They’re neither good nor evil. Is a volcano evil? Is revolution evil? Is destruction evil?
Boethiah is Strength, Strength in Amoral. The Sabercat does not think whether it is right to kill that Deer, it simply does, for it is strong and the Deer is weak. The Frost Troll cares not for the consequences for slaughtering that caravan, it simply does, for it is strong and they were weak. Strength cares not for the form it takes. Who is stronger? The Hero that single handedly saved a city from an Orc raiding party? Or the conniving little man in the corner who arranged for this Hero to meet the Headsmen's axe with but a whisper here and a forged note there? Boethiah is Strength, nothing more, nothing less.
Just cause Boethiah doesn't care about what is good and what is evil, doesn't mean that the moral law doesn't apply to Boathiah. "Might makes right" is really just nihilism.
@@Theo_Caro There is no moral law. What objectifies what's right and what's wrong? The tide rolls in, the tide rolls out. All that is, just is. It's not good or bad, it just is.
Going from your description here, I’m thinking that Boethiah might be at least partially inspired by Khorne from the Warhammer/Warhammer 40k universe. There are plenty of differences, but at their core, they both seem to be the embodiment of “survival of the fittest”. They both strictly adhere to the principle that one’s worth is directly tied to one’s strength, and weakness of any kind will only draw their wrath.
FudgeMuppet: "Boethiah might not be so evil after all" Me: how dare you!!! Boethiah it's holy undeserving of the title "God"... holy un-deserving of worship..... And worship of her should be banned!!! not talos!!!! Perhaps it's time the mortals of tamriel invaded and sacked a daedric plane of Oblivion.... Boethiah's snake mount!!!! Edit: I realize Boethiah has good intentions.... But Boethiah goes about her teachings with dishonor.... Honor is a solid.... And I'd argue essential guiding point for mortal morality.... The dunmer May have become a strong people!!! but at what cost.... They have no morality and care not for right or wrong.... Malacath The corrupted... Daedric... Defiled version of trinamac teaches similar ideas when it comes to Life is a test thing..... But Malacath has HONOR!!!! And while orcs have been known to raid.... They're also seen as outcasts and it's hard for them to trade with other races thus they Don't always have a choice... when they do they act with honor under most circumstances....
Boethea is a hypocrite and unworthy of respect. They couldn't beat Trinimac on their own and had to have another Daedric Prince sneak up on Trinimac while he was distracted by Boethea. Sounds like something a weak coward would do.
LUKA by mortal standards. Do you think fire is evil because it burns? They aren't capable of being anything more then there aspects. Dagon must destroy, sheogorath must be mad. They have no choice in it, and is it really evil if you don't have a choice to be good?
LUKA The actions of a daedra and the reasons as to why cannot be fully comprehended by mortals, hence daedra do not fall into the mortal standards of 'Good' or 'Evil'. This also applies to aedra. E.g. Boethiah has caused what some say 'Evil' actions to occur, but she also helped the dunmer learn how to be shrewd etc. An example of an aedra, e.g. Arkay, arkay does plenty of good, but what about when he litteraly abandoned one of his most dedicated worshipers after Molag Bal raped her and turned her into a vampire? Some could consider that 'evil'. As with everything it's about perspective, to a daedra launching an invasion they are doing what they must, as it is in their nature to do so, but to the victims of the invasion it would be considered evil due to all the death etc.
Id say each of them has a certain alignment, and the DND alignments fit well. Mehrunes Dagon is Chaotic Evil, Sheogorath is CN, ETC. I think Boethiah would fall under Lawful Evil. That is almost the exact alignment drew described in the video. Helping mortals who crave power and will do anything to get it because they dont have much time, while unwavering slaughtering those who show weakness.
Its almost kinda sad, maybe they even want to help in their own way but because of how they were born they can't "the daedra, who were born from the blood of Padomay, and thus are only evil." The Annotated Anuad.
It is not strength to sacrifice one’s friend for power or recognition, rather it is strength to remain loyal to one’s friends regardless of the situation.
Chimer is based on the word Chimera, which is pronounced with a "k" sound. This is further supported by the fact that the Chimaera is a three-headed monster from Greek mythology, mirroring the theme of threes pervading the Dunmer culture and Morrowind game (the Tribunal, the three founding Daedra, the three Great Houses you can join, and the fact that it takes place in the Third Era). If you see it as relating to the word "chime" and prefer to hear it that way, there's no harm in that. If you were wondering why the other pronunciation is the canon version, though, there you have it.
Chi-mer: from Aldmeris language, changed folk. CHIM: Ehlnofex syllable of royalty. And while Aldmeris comes from old Ehlnofex etymologically, the two words, chi and CHIM, are distinct. ...you fetcher :)
I don't see how any of this makes Boethiah seem any less evil. If anything, the points brought up *_reinforce_* their evilness. I... don't understand your moral compass at this point. Edit: Boethiah cares not for morals, but for the mortals as a whole, and that is where they fail. They care only for strength and skill. A flower won't be beckoned to grow by stamping upon it. A tree doesn't grow strong by the blade of the woodman's axe. Cultivation begets betterment. All Boethiah does is reward those who have proven themselves to not need it. Boethiah is not the one to beckon forth perseverance and persistence. Boethiah is not the one to be at your back, training you to better yourself. Boethiah is not the one to coax mortals into becoming better versions of themselves. Boethiah is not the one to understand the nature of mortals and give due teaching. Boethiah is a daedra's daedra. Mortals should not be given tough love, as tough love can be no different from cruelty, even with the best of intentions. Cruelty begets cruelty. It's no secret that everyone has a snapping point, whether you accept or deny it. Embracing cruelty is to be cast into the arms of Dagon... or even Bal. It's one thing to be callused against the harshness of the world. It's another to shut out compassion in valuing only strength. Boethiah may not be wholely evil, but their teachings alone will only lead to agony. I suppose that's why Azura is another -Anticipation- Reclamation-- Her teachings meter out the other two. Ah, whatever. Just don't say I didn't warn you. There's always a bigger fish.
Boethia doesn't support violence for violence's sake. Boethia supports violence to prove strength. similar to the view of orcs in a sense. not as violence for the sake of evil and destruction like most daedra
One could argue that Boethiah is the Daedric Prince of fascism. Valuing individual strength, dominance, and a warrior ideal over peace, mercy and equality. The Dunmer practice of slavery could attributed to her teachings. The strong dominating the weak. After all, if those slaves wanted freedom, why didn't they just fight harder(!?) In that respect, I would that she is definitely evil. But this is just showing how subjective the whole good/evil thing is. If you value individual strength and removal of the weak, then to you, she is good. But if you value cooperation and altruism, then she is evil.
I think it's more in line with anarchism. Fascism sounds more like Molag Bal. I'd also say that good and evil are mortal conceptions that hold no meaning to the daedra, especially princes.
I think she/he's one of the few princes who should give mortality a try. I'd love to strike her down in battle and taker her realm and her powers from her.
She literally ate Trinimac, an aedric god and crapped him out as Malacath. Even if she was mortal she would still wipe the floor with any mortal who challenges her.
I could, the dragonborn is easily the most powerful force on tamriel right now. Even if I couldn't the first time I can go into the cheat room, mod a few things and take her out that way. hell, you can even kill mehrunes dagon when he shows up at the end of oblivion with the right mods...I think he has like 12 million hit points once you make him killable, and he's too damn big to target you at that point anyway. all it takes is time.
Dragonborn < Dat Frost Troll on the way to High Hrothgar In lore there are no mods nor cheat room. And you might have a fk ton of armor, max spell absorbtion, but a powerful daedric prince like Boethiah could easily use something like Disarm, Silence, Stasis/Paralysis etc... So there's no fkin way.You just can't fk around with demigods.
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. First off, lore wise the dragonborn is a demigod. that's why he's the only one that can beat alduin (saying he's weaker than a frost troll just makes you sound retarded). 2nd off, if she's mortal and only using abilities found in game I can beat her, end of story.
@@proximityclockworkx1572 how do i relate to something like Dragonborn < dat frost troll of high hrothgar ??? So many dohvakiins hace dued by the claws of that frosty shit...
I know this isn’t the right video to say this but I was rewatching some older builds and I really think you should remaster the sociopath build. Just a thought.
I argue there are no good or evil spirits, whether they be Aedra or Daedra. Spirits just are. They can seem just like mortals but they are not. Mortals are more nuanced and flexible in their natures. More capable of actual choice. Spirits are just doing what the idea that created them dictates. Good and evil is for mortals, not spirits. Might as well call the wind evil for having blown in a storm that damaged your house. In this case though the wind can talk back. And maybe laugh at you for being so foolish as to expect different.
This is an amazing example. Well said. And I would add that while it would be foolish to call the wind evil and even more not to recognize its dangers... it still can be to one´s benefit to realize there are ways in which the wind can be useful. Thus, Dunmer and their relationship with the Anticipations(reclamations) and even their respect for the House of Troubles as trials to be overcome.
Set in the Second Era, ESO is canon. I love your lore FudgeMuppet!! I've been an Elder Scrolls fan since the day Daggerfall came out and I thought I knew it all and you continue to educate me! Love your work and I agree with you about Boethia.
Funny thing is the eso hero is mentioned in elder scrolls arena. If you visit taverns in moorowind some of the dunmer will use the expression "by the souless one"
Of course, Boethia is not bad, he just murders his followers who can not guess his preferences. And only dedicated to treason and murder. Friend, that does not make sense. In the same story you tell about Boethiah and his followers, it is clear that the Daedric Prince ends your life just because you do not know what he wants. It also weakened the Chimer. You say that Boethiah told the Chimmer that the Altmer were weak, but who is the weak one? The Dunmers were conquered by the first empire of the nords, and later by Talos. And the current state of Morrowind is deplorable. On the contrary, Summerset Isles was only conquered by the Numidium, and is currently one of the best provinces, in fact, they have always been among the best. So Trinimac was right, and Boethiah only managed to split the mer. Something that can be expected from the Daedric Prince of murders, conspiracies and betrayal. Boethiah does not want the best for the dunmer, just play with them.
Were they conquered by the first empire of the Nords? Yes. And that same empire also took over a great deal of Dwemer cities for a time as well, but it wasn't forever. Even then the argument can be made that both groups were weakened at the time due to fighting each other and with internal fighting, hence why it was possible, but also at the time the Tongues were still a massive part of the Nord armies, which the Dwemer and Chimer just had no means of counteracting. Talos did not conquer Morrowind, and in fact dreaded the idea of it. Vivec willingly came to the negotiating table first and through the Armistice, gained an immense amount of clout and freedom for Morrowind and the Dunmer under the Septim Dynasty. After the death of Uriel VII, four things happened that left Morrowind in the 'deplorable state' it is in now. 1. The Oblivion Crisis. Everyone sans the Argonians were hit hard by this. This wasn't any fault of the Dunmer as a species since everybody got hit by this, and Mehrunes Dagon is one of the Four Corners of the House of Troubles 2. Baar Dau (originally sent by Sheogorath, another member of the House of Troubles) falling on Vivec (the city). With the vanishing of Vivec (the god), the moon of Baar Dau finished it's descent and landed on Vivec (the city) destroying it and causing... 3. Red Mountain erupting. Kinda explains itself 4. The Argonian invasion of Morrowind. This one is the one most arguably the fault of the Dunmer and that they were 'deserving of it', as it were. Due to enslaving Argonians for centuries, seeing the weakness of the Dunmer the Argonians invaded to reclaim land and simply pay back the Dunmer for everything they'd done. Which is, honestly, a very Boethiah-thing to do: Strike an enemy when they're down and take what they have. On the Altmer and Summerset, as you said, Talos used Numidium he had gotten from the Tribunal to conquer the Second Aldmeri Dominion. Instead of using his legions, he had a weapon of unparalled might, and utterly decimated them effortlessly because of it. Handing over the Numidium IMO is also a thing Boethiah would approve of as well, for such a pragmatic move. It prevented the unneeded slaughter of good, strong Dunmer. There was also a personal enjoyment knowing that the powerful tool of the long-gone Dwemer was used to crush the Altmer under it's heal. In short, it left the Dunmer strong, and their enemy (the Altmer in this case) weakened.
I remind you that the nords were also worn out by the war of extermination they had with the snow elves, just as with their war of conquest against several nations; not only fought against the Dunmer and Dwemer. And it is the point. According to FudgeMuppet's argument, Boethiah and in any case, Mephala and Azura, watched over the Dunmer, even telling them that the Altmers were weak. Then they should have given them more power with which they could destroy or at least defend themselves from the nords, but that never happened. And the thu'um, although it is powerful, is just another style of magic, and not anybody used it, so it's not like it was something that made the nords invincible. And even so, the Dunmers were conquered, even fighting in their native land, which gives them an advantage when they know the terrain. And that's the point, they had to accept the terms of Talos, something that for example, the "weak" of the Altmer never accepted until they were conquered by the Numidium. Which shows that in terms of power, the Altmers were stronger. That is why I said that the Dunmers were conquered by Talos. Therefore, the argument of FudgeMuppet is not sustained. About your points of the Morrowind state: 1.- The first one is not useful, because as you say, every province of Tamriel suffered the invasion, so it is not an excuse since other provinces also suffered it and were not so affected. 2.- This was the fault of Vivec himself, because instead of destroying Baar Dau, he left it there as a sign of his power. And it also shows the little power of the Dunmers, because without Vivec, they were not able to get rid of such a rock until it fell. Where is that great supposed power? On the contrary, those of the Psijic Order are able to disappear their island at will, without counting other types of powers such as stopping time. 3.- This point is acceptable, but it is not like any other province does not suffer from similar problems, such as Winterhold. 4.- That is another point that refutes the argument of FudgeMuppet. The Argonians, who were just slaves for the Dunmers, and were considered a "weak" race, and much less skilled in the development of weapons and magic, managed to conquer much of Morrowind, and even almost exterminated the "great magicians" of the House Telvanni. Not to mention, again, that the Dunmers had a great advantage because they were in their province and they know the terrain. That only shows the great weakness of the Dunmer, something bequeathed by Boethiah himself, because his entire culture is based on conspiracy and treason, which generates great and powerful subjects, but when it comes to fighting against others, they are extremely weakened by their own internal fights that end up giving them a beating, in the same way they were given by the nords in their first empire. This type of problems to organize can be seen in the text: On Morrowind, where it just shows how the Great Houses can not adequately plan the defense of their home. Even The Lord High Councilor of the Grand Council was killed for not accepting the peace agreement. So FudgeMuppet argument does not hold up. The Dunmers, thanks to the teachings of the Dedra, especially Boethiah, have a culture that only causes their own self-destruction. And it leaves them weak before the other races, on the contrary, the Altmer maintain a more stable and powerful society. For which I repeat, Trinimac was right, and the Dunmer exodus only weakened the mer, especially Dunmer himself. Boethiah only honors his conspiracy and treason features: and plays with the Dunmers. And only as extra data to end up showing how their culture affects them. You can see the case that is given in Windhelm, because although there is discrimination against the mer in general, Niranye has managed to prosper his business, and about the dunmer he says this: "It was difficult at first. The Nords of this city are, at best, suspicious of outsiders. But in time, I made the right friends and proved myself useful enough that they don't give me trouble anymore. The dark elves are too proud and naive to understand the way things truly are, and so they continue to dwell in that slum." That just shows how their culture stops them and makes them weaker in the end, which gives Niranye a better position.
No, Boethiah killed them because they did not guess what he wanted. It is a fallacy of non sequitur what you say, does not logically follow that by not knowing what a person thinks, or in this case, a Daedra, it means that you are weak. The only logical conclusion of not knowing what someone thinks is that you are not omniscient. You can even check the book: Invocation of Azura, where the author states that Boethiah does not care about his followers, he only cares about blood. Even in the book: Boethiah's Glory, it is stipulated that you are nothing but dust for Boethiah.
Boethiah is, sort of, like Dagon. They are both simply the forces of existence, rather like Sheogorath. They act only to further the mortals. Dagon is the Fire of Revolution. Sheogorath is the Rolling of the Bones. Boethiah is the Culling of the Herd. All three are simply aspects of Darwinian evolution. Disruption, Mutation, Judgement.
You make him sound far too honorable and caring, lets list again, what his domains are :deceit, conspiracy, secret plots of murder, assassination, treason, and unlawful overthrow of authority, just to list a few. Name a time those actions were used for good. I think it is just a cruel enjoyment he gets watching mortal kill each other, as his playthings. Boethiah sees the world as cruel because he is cruel, can't see it any other way. And in case there is any doubt that they are evil "the daedra, who were born from the blood of Padomay, and thus are only evil." The Annotated Anuad.
Name a time those were used for good? The original 13 Colonies vs The British Government in the Revolutionary War Haitian slaves vs the French during the Haitian Slave rebellions the Maroons vs the British Government during the Jamaican Slave rebellions the French peasantry vs the French monarchs during the French Revolution Student Revolutionary Directorate vs the Batista's corrupt Republic of Cuba during the Cuban Revolution You can go on and on to infinity. Plots to murder, assassination, treason, and unlawful overthrow of authority are all tools just like a gun. Just because something is "Lawful" doesn't make it just.
Chaotic good doesn't care about laws, they do what they feel is correct for the greater good, even if it's viewed as immoral by greater society. Their intentions are usually pure regardless of what society thinks.
ok, everyone else, you've changed my mind, but Osip, the Anuad is for anyone not just children, there is a simplified version of it called a children's anuad tho. But just as often as not these actions are used for evil
Boethiah is like that Boxing trainer that will see you go through hell and back, that will kick your teeth in over and over, whom you will never like, but whom you'll come to appreciate. Bc he isn't doing it out of some perverse, sadistic desire to see you suffer. He does it bc you come to him weak and he knows you can be strong, so he will drag you through the trenches until that strength emerges, and you become a better version of yourself. He knows there is a future champion underneath. A diamond hiding in coal. And he will either make it come out or brake it. Boethiah sees potential in mortals. She wants them to overcome great odds so that they emerge ever stronger.
I mean you can decide ESO isn't canon in your books, you would be wrong but you can do it :3 (but really i was more surprised that Legends is actually canon too, it's just something that exist) On topic, Yeah she's evil in the way that the Spartan (or the Orc) would be evil, holding a different type of morality and value instead of going against their or acting without.
As much as I love Sheogorath's delightful madness, Nocturnal's mysterious shadows, Molag Bal's cruel subjugation, Hermaeus Mora's forbidden knowledge, and Hircine's bestial instincts, if I had to choose one Deadric Prince to worship it would be Boethiah, and her overwhelming power. Best of all, to her, victory is victory no matter how it's attained. Whether that be through honorable combat, a silver tongue, or more... underhanded means. And of course, the Elder Scrolls is nothing if not an overarching quest for power and victory. Besides, who else ate a god and shat out another Deadric Prince? Nobody, that's who.
Proximus are you mental? The creators of the game and BGS have both confirmed multiple times that ESO is canon. There are several statements from ZOS and BGS specifically naming ESO as part of canon lore along with TES Legends. Please, your stupid is showing.
Hi guys I know you probably won't read this or accept my request however I still play alot of fallout 4 and i would love you to do a modded sniper build. Backstory: The sniper was a highly respected and well known American sniper seargent in the great war . The rest of the backstory would be upto you guys as I'm not very creative: I will let you decided starting stats as there are two viable ways of playing this build being a stealth sniper and a frontline heavy sniper. Weapons: I suggest the Lee enfield sniper rifle from the Lee enfield mod and the deliverer from the railroad questline as well as pickmans blade or a combat knife however until you can get these weapons i suggest a silenced 10mm pistol and a basic scoped hunting rifle. For armor I reccomend using azar holstered weapons and putting a singular rifle on your back as well as the rebel outfit WG from the mercenary pack as well as the wastelander gloves from the same mod. I will leave the rest up to you guys as I'm not creative please do make this modded build it is so much fun
10:30 "He sculpted them into winners who used mortality to fuel their advancements, rather than moping losers who blame Lorkan for their shortcomings." Moping loser Thalmor: "I feel personally called out."
The observation that the Daedra have the privilege to fail infinite times and get back up whereas mortals just die is astute. Boethiah is a privileged king pitting mortals against each other as gladiators for her amusement. Eternal gladiatorial games and Tamriel's mortals are so much grist. Boethiah will *never* be similarly touched. He's "evil" for the material effect of what he does, cause misery, and not for his intentions.
the one quest i never finished in skyrim: i brought a victim (lydia) to the shrine but right after the kill, i restarted the game (never load a save in a modded game ingame and dont use autosaves) and used the console to get the armour.
Wow, you know, this explains so much about why Molag Bal and Boethiah are considered rivals. Molag Bal is about dominance and tormenting the most devout priest or steadfast warrior. Any person who is strong in any way is fair game to Molag Bal because his ultimate goal is to see them fall from grace.
But Boethiah, she wants you to claw your way to victory. She wants you to fight for what's yours, to thrive and become strong. I was always confused as to why these two similar Daedric princess were at odds with each other but now I see why... Boethiah and Molag Bal want you to struggle and resist, and both will show no mercy to anyone.
But Boethiah wants you to win. Molag Bal wants you to submit.
In fact it's quite simple. Molag is Prince of Domination, while Boe is Prince of Rebel. They are representing opposing concepts, so they must be rivals.
Bolethia is basically the Daedric Prince of Meritocracy. Everybody must EARN their place in the world. I however personally think that those who worship it should also worship Merida so as to have a more balanced mindset of how to deal with others, as Bothela's obsession with betrayal supposedly being an aspect of meritocracies, which it most certainly is not, needs to be balanced out by a fair bit.
I always wondered what Molag Bal's idea of submitting is. If someone worships him and does everything he says submitting? Is it circumstantial to the person he wants to submit?
Well, Merid-Nudna isn't the best source of balance in field of dealing with others. She thrusted city of her followers into Realm of Molag Bal, because it will gave her tactical advantage in the future. For her
the ends justify the means.
@@freddiemight2432 oh yeah, she is a social Darwinist at her core. I'm pretty sure if those souls she damned were to somehow survive she'd praise them. Possibly. It's hard to know with Daedra. After all, Molag Bal praises you in ES Online when you beat him. Soooo... Their characters remain mysterious and unpredictable
Boetheia is the kind of Daedra who teaches kids to swim by tossing em in a pool and saying “swim or drown”
"Sink or swim kids, I ain't no helicopter papa."
My dad's brother did that to him at a pool when his parents weren't looking.
so what im getting from this is....
Boethiah: Failure is not an option Mortal!
Molag Bal: Failure is your only option Mortal!
*"Stop Your Whining Mortal And Get Good"*
~B
sounds like someone who would comment on a "How do I beat this Dark Souls boss?" topic....
Unbeknownst to us, we're all under Boethiah's influence :O
@@jabberSERKER Yeah, I'm Ok With That
Is Fromsoftware really just Earth's Cult of Boethia? Food for thought...
"Take this knife and kill that giant. Go for the shins"
~M
Milk drinker...
“There is no good and evil. There is only power, and those too weak to seek it”
Boethiah is like, “see? Voldemort gets it”
Boethiah: The only difference between you and me mortal, is that I succeeded, were you failed.
Prince of Git Gud!
That just proves that's an asshat though.
So basically a dark souls player? Sound bout right.
She's pretty much the embodyment of competition.
Strike first
Strike hard
No mercy
Miguel Angel Rangel such wisdom/s
Is that a cobra kai reference?
_Peace is a lie, there is only passion._
_Through passion, I gain strength._
_Through strength, I gain power._
_Through power, I gain victory._
_Through victory, my chains are broken._
_Boethia shall free me._
Some Sith shit
There is no passion, there is virtue
There is no chaos, only order prevails.There is no emotion, there is peace. I am the heart of Light, I shall fear no evil.
The Lord of Hosts shall set me free. There is no death, there is only eternity!.
@@revanvonheaven8270 sounds like star wars. Sith
@@I_Just_Like_Neat_Stuff some skyrim shit
What's mine is mine and mine and mine.
And mine and mine and mine!
Not yours!"
-Larfleeze- Orange Lantern Corps
7:17 Holy sh*t, I didn't know you could see Azura's shrine from Boethiah's
If only Mephala also had a shrine in Skyrim, especially where you can see it from the other two reclamations' shrines, then the Dunmer's worship shrines would be complete
It's a mod. 🙂 Without it, Azura's statue is invisible at a distance.
@@Aethuviel I don't think so, It's most likely increased draw distance
@@motivateddad Either way, you can't see it in vanilla. I have a mod to be able to see it.
I like how you switch between calling Boethiah "He" and "She" throughout the video. Nice touch.
"They"- Am I a joke to you
Yeah im no feminist but i do like the snake lady incarnation she manifests as. Cant ever tell her no...
@@dmitritelvanni4068 wouldn't want to be mistaken as a feminist for *checks notes* liking a female character.
Considering their sphere of Oblivion, it makes sense. Deception in its finest.
@gabe itches
You must not have played Oblivion
I love how Drew keeps switching between "him" and "her", because Boethiah is the only Daedric prince who never seems to stick to just one or the other.
Well, it's also a good detail because treachery comes from either sex. As well as that desire for survival
Mephala I think does it too.
@@jeffreyaguilar8028 actually, mephala is a hermaphrodite, both genders at once, because it is crucial to her sphere.
@@jeffreyaguilar8028 Yeah, Mephala is the anticipation of Vivek after all. I think they appear as either male or female based on whichever makes it easier to manipulate the person to whom they appear.
@@jeffreyaguilar8028 @matthewdonnell6906 Actually all but one of the titles of Mephala uses always terms like "Princess", "Queen", "Lady" etc... and in nearly all images and statues she is always a female (well... or a spider... or a mix of the two, but you get it).
The only times this doesn't happen is a single title of her, "Androgyne Daedra", and in particular what we could find in a couples of specific in-game book in Morrowind and Skyrim, like "Varieties of Faith..." and "Invocation of Azura".
For what i've read in-game and outside about the Lore, i would say that Boethia switch from female to male, so we could say (using modern real life terms) that he/she is "gender fluid", and Mephala is a female but with elements of her aspect also close to males (at least the non-spider parts), so she is indeed an androgyne female, as her titles above says... using real life VIP, Boethia is like Erza Miller, Nico Tortorella or Asia Kate Dillon, Mephala is like Grace Jones or Tilda Swidon
Boethiah: The Daedric Prince of annoying try hards admins who kick you from the server if you take even one point of damage.
JM what?
Makarosc 666 Boethiah is the "get good" god.
YES!
More like the ultimate soccer coach
The Daedric prince of Soulsborne.
"He is a prince who wants you to *git gud* "
Damn.
I absolutely love your lore videos
SylentEulogy I really hope they make the morag tong a joinable faction in the next game
Morag Tong that would be so good. There is a morag tong storyline in ESO and it is so good.
Nice
#DarkBrotherhoodForever
Antonio Lucio Vivaldi that is just radiant quests randomly generated boring
Also, I can’t help but imagine Boethiah’s first words to the soon-to-be Chimer were something along the lines of “Alright, scrubs! Time for some POWER-LEVELING!!!”
"he's the prince who tells you to get good"
So Boethiah is the Dark Souls of Daedra?
Boethiah is the Nameless King in disguise
Malacath is not so evil prince (in fact Malacath is the prince who aid mortals the most).Unlike Azura, Malacath was never allies with Molag Bal. Boethiah will betray you once you are no use. Boethiah isn’t the most trustworthy prince.
Jordan S Yea, back in Oblivion he saved a bunch of slaves. And his statues always look buff.
Xander C.
Swoll AF Malacath, is actually the prince of gains, and the sworn leg day compliance.
Xander C. Also Boethiah would get along with schemers like Tywin, Littlefinger, Walder Frey, and Roose Bolton. Malacath will get along with Stannis and his daughter because they are outcast.
Azura allying with Molag bal was retconed. Azura being allies with bal is from daggerfall which was retconed. In daggerfall Meridia was the daedric prince of greed and the other daedra had no redeeming qualities, they were essentially demons.
Boethiah doesn't ask for her champions' trust. He/she only asks of them to be the very best (like no one ever was).
If someone bests them, then tough shit. They were never worthy in the first place.
In dutch there is a saying "zachte heelmeesters maken stinkende wonden" meaning "kind doctors leave stinking wounds". I think this explains the harsh attitude boethia holds.
Rule one of Boethiah Cult:
_Never talk about Boethiah Cult!_
Second rule of Boethiah Cult:
*Don't cry in Boethiah Cult.*
If this is the 1st time you join, you have to kill
Boethia. The best damn drill sergeant there is.
This gave me a much higher appreciation for Boethiah and almost outright admiration compared to the other daedra. Great inspection on the lore and philosophy on this one!
*prays to Boethiah at his shirine to summon him*
*Welcome To The Jungle starts playing*
I consider Boethiah to be the ultimate amoral pragmatist. Not about good or evil, but about doing things in an efficient manner, even if it looks deplorable to those around you.
Jigalagg ?
@@meandmetoo8436 i consider my player to be a worshipper or jyglag lol
Boethiah is such a dark elf deity. She seems like she could be worshipped by literally any group of dark elves in fiction. Druchii from Warhammer fantasy, Drukhari from Warhammer 40k, Drow from DnD and The Wild Hunt from The Witcher. All of them alongside the Dunmer you can easily see as being devoted to the Prince of Plots haha.
Boethiah, Daedric Prince of Git Gud.
Daedric Prince of Dark Souls
The most epic possible thing that could happen in a TES and Dark Souls crossover would be for Boethiah to laugh before you cut of Boethiah's head.
Other than Molag Bal i can see arguments as to why any daedric prince wouldn't be pure evil.
rampager gamer Well I mean technically Daedric Prince's can't be evil since they kind of have to do things that represent them. For instance Dagon had to try to destroy Cyrodiil because it's in his nature to bring destruction and change. Molag Bal tried to enslave all of Tamriel because it's in his nature. Daedra have to follow their moral compass rather they want to or not.
CFP Snipe Where are you getting that "they kind of have to do things that represent them?" Talk about what a aedra/daedra represent seem to be more like titles that mortals give to them. They each just take an interest in different things. They have a will and exert it.
Theo_Caro They aren't just titles, everything the aedra and daedra do is written in stone that they must do it. They aren't titles because daedra and aedra have been around before mortals.
The aedra didn't really agree to it, though, they got tricked into creating mundus. They are probably "good guys", though, because they are literally part of mundus. Them destroying mundus would be like you cutting your own finger off. That's why the aedra are the "good guys"
rampager gamer Dagon is about change and destruction witch isnt always a negative force.
So she basically daedric Prince of battle royals
Boethiah, the prince of souls games.
wow
"Kill your friend for your own personal gain. Did that? K, go kill my previous champion now - I don't like him anymore."
Yeah, totally not evil.
Ivan the first part was still fucked up... even if I just threw my ex in there
In your perspective it's evil
Not necessarily your friend. Many players will seek out a new, low-value follower for the sole purpose of sacrifice.
@@VeteranDecanus86 ie How we, and probably how Boethiah sees, Lydia
7:56 "He's the Prince who tells you to get good" I see Boethiah is a Dark Souls player.
Definitely an interesting way to put it. Every time I see these videos, I gain a new perspective on the gods which i would have never thought about so that's a thumbs up from me.
There are no gods, everyone was a god before The Convention!
Ungreatful Duck semantics.
*Excerpt from a journal found in the stomach of a dragon*
Just because it is your blood dripping from the claw doesn't make wrong Boethia's Law.
"Some must die, that others may live, that is the law - in polite society we call the survivor "Killer", Boethia bids us to remember from whence came our Dinner."
Blessed Kyne brought the game across my path, to Hircine goes the pursuit, to Dagon goes the stag's last breath - the change from life to death, but it is to Boethia that nature preys - it is Boethia's law that nature ALWAYS follows, it is Boethia's law that renders life red in tooth and claw.
Meanwhile, Sheogorath is over here sticking his boogers to the walls of Oblivion.
@@fuzzydunlop7928 that sadly makes perfect since for how the cursed staff in Morrowwind came to be
@@fuzzydunlop7928 Sheogorath giggling about mad shit in the corner, Sanguine drunk trying To cuddle barbas, Mora face palms, knowing what happens next despite not having a face nor palms, Boethia pitting some mortals to fight like mortals would pit dogs or wolves against each other in a skooma den, Hircine chasing some rabbits, Clavicus and Vaemina betting on challengers in Boethia's mortal fights, Mehrunes and Molag lstening to the screams of mortals like a mortal would Listen to sweet music, Merida walking away trying To ignore the atrocities that are happening in oblivion, the others just messing with their champions or some other mortals for fun
Not SO evil, but asks you to kill her previous champion in Skyrim? Lovely.
Kailey Barrett Wasn't that because he became lazy and stopped following her ideals?
The dude was a bandit and didnt do shit.Killing him was a mercy.
He became weak. The strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must
Because he was a weakling whose sum of ambition was to rule over a petty little kingdom of marauders.
Kailey Barrett Deadric princes are utterly alien to us mortals. They’re divine beings who didn’t take part in creation. They aren’t limited by arrogant mortal notions of morality. They have their own moral values. They’re neither good nor evil. Is a volcano evil? Is revolution evil? Is destruction evil?
i just found u guys and u make the best vids so notifications on
name Welcome to our fucked up family.
name *ONE OF US*
H R ok i am glad to be a part of the family but pls do not kidnap me or perform a ritual on me just be my friend not enemy
Darth Fenrir489 I know that's why I came
The Daedric Prince of Dark Souls!
Boethia has always been my favorite Daedric Prince.
Boethiah is Strength, Strength in Amoral.
The Sabercat does not think whether it is right to kill that Deer, it simply does, for it is strong and the Deer is weak. The Frost Troll cares not for the consequences for slaughtering that caravan, it simply does, for it is strong and they were weak.
Strength cares not for the form it takes. Who is stronger? The Hero that single handedly saved a city from an Orc raiding party? Or the conniving little man in the corner who arranged for this Hero to meet the Headsmen's axe with but a whisper here and a forged note there?
Boethiah is Strength, nothing more, nothing less.
Just cause Boethiah doesn't care about what is good and what is evil, doesn't mean that the moral law doesn't apply to Boathiah. "Might makes right" is really just nihilism.
The sabre cat kills the deer because it is hungry.
@@Theo_Caro Might Makes Right is the only true law
@@Vilverna thank you, finally someone gets it.
@@Theo_Caro There is no moral law. What objectifies what's right and what's wrong? The tide rolls in, the tide rolls out. All that is, just is. It's not good or bad, it just is.
Me who has every Daedric Artifact:
I'll just leave...
Fun fact: I didn't even know Vaermina existed for the longest time xd
Going from your description here, I’m thinking that Boethiah might be at least partially inspired by Khorne from the Warhammer/Warhammer 40k universe. There are plenty of differences, but at their core, they both seem to be the embodiment of “survival of the fittest”. They both strictly adhere to the principle that one’s worth is directly tied to one’s strength, and weakness of any kind will only draw their wrath.
"Self preservation” sums it up.
FudgeMuppet: "Boethiah might not be so evil after all"
Me: how dare you!!! Boethiah it's holy undeserving of the title "God"... holy un-deserving of worship..... And worship of her should be banned!!! not talos!!!! Perhaps it's time the mortals of tamriel invaded and sacked a daedric plane of Oblivion.... Boethiah's snake mount!!!!
Edit: I realize Boethiah has good intentions.... But Boethiah goes about her teachings with dishonor.... Honor is a solid.... And I'd argue essential guiding point for mortal morality.... The dunmer May have become a strong people!!! but at what cost.... They have no morality and care not for right or wrong....
Malacath The corrupted... Daedric... Defiled version of trinamac teaches similar ideas when it comes to Life is a test thing..... But Malacath has HONOR!!!! And while orcs have been known to raid.... They're also seen as outcasts and it's hard for them to trade with other races thus they Don't always have a choice... when they do they act with honor under most circumstances....
1:54 Holy crap! If that's what I think it is between Boethiah's legs then he's more hung than I could have imagined.
if this continues il start worshipping the dunmers gods
Mudge Fuppet
Reece Michelle yes.
Sludge Nugget
Pudge Fuppet
EudgF TuppeM
Y'all stop that shit!
Boethea is a hypocrite and unworthy of respect. They couldn't beat Trinimac on their own and had to have another Daedric Prince sneak up on Trinimac while he was distracted by Boethea. Sounds like something a weak coward would do.
"tells you to: git gud"
i had an entire hour worth of laughs 😂😂
Do you think Boethia would be a Dark Souls fan?
Next up, “Nocturnal the FINEST Daedric Prince.”
Evil is not a term that can be applied to daedra, they simply do what they do because the things they represent are them
Matthew Chirino but if the things the prince represents are evil then the prince is evil as well, isn't he?
LUKA by mortal standards. Do you think fire is evil because it burns? They aren't capable of being anything more then there aspects. Dagon must destroy, sheogorath must be mad. They have no choice in it, and is it really evil if you don't have a choice to be good?
LUKA The actions of a daedra and the reasons as to why cannot be fully comprehended by mortals, hence daedra do not fall into the mortal standards of 'Good' or 'Evil'. This also applies to aedra. E.g. Boethiah has caused what some say 'Evil' actions to occur, but she also helped the dunmer learn how to be shrewd etc. An example of an aedra, e.g. Arkay, arkay does plenty of good, but what about when he litteraly abandoned one of his most dedicated worshipers after Molag Bal raped her and turned her into a vampire? Some could consider that 'evil'. As with everything it's about perspective, to a daedra launching an invasion they are doing what they must, as it is in their nature to do so, but to the victims of the invasion it would be considered evil due to all the death etc.
Id say each of them has a certain alignment, and the DND alignments fit well. Mehrunes Dagon is Chaotic Evil, Sheogorath is CN, ETC. I think Boethiah would fall under Lawful Evil. That is almost the exact alignment drew described in the video. Helping mortals who crave power and will do anything to get it because they dont have much time, while unwavering slaughtering those who show weakness.
Its almost kinda sad, maybe they even want to help in their own way but because of how they were born they can't "the daedra, who were born from the blood of Padomay, and thus are only evil." The Annotated Anuad.
It is not strength to sacrifice one’s friend for power or recognition, rather it is strength to remain loyal to one’s friends regardless of the situation.
Could you do a video about Maphala? She always seemed pretty evil, but maybe I am wrong.
Boethiah is cruel and harsh, but not malicious, and that's a difficult distinction to make for some people.
My N'wah we all know *Chim* -er is pronounced like *_Chim_* , and for you S'wits who don't get it it would sound like _Kim_ -er
IC23 both are accepted
Chimer is based on the word Chimera, which is pronounced with a "k" sound. This is further supported by the fact that the Chimaera is a three-headed monster from Greek mythology, mirroring the theme of threes pervading the Dunmer culture and Morrowind game (the Tribunal, the three founding Daedra, the three Great Houses you can join, and the fact that it takes place in the Third Era). If you see it as relating to the word "chime" and prefer to hear it that way, there's no harm in that. If you were wondering why the other pronunciation is the canon version, though, there you have it.
Arwir
Thank you fellow scholar, I fully agree with your _Deep Lore_
IC23
Khai-Mer
Chi-mer: from Aldmeris language, changed folk. CHIM: Ehlnofex syllable of royalty. And while Aldmeris comes from old Ehlnofex etymologically, the two words, chi and CHIM, are distinct. ...you fetcher :)
When the music started i looked up in fear thinking there was a cliff racer after me
She / He just wanna eliminate all the living normies in Tamriel.
I love Fudgemuppet!!! This is one of my favorite videos watched it like 6 times today alone. Drew your the man! Thank you!!!!!
I don't see how any of this makes Boethiah seem any less evil.
If anything, the points brought up *_reinforce_* their evilness.
I... don't understand your moral compass at this point.
Edit:
Boethiah cares not for morals, but for the mortals as a whole, and that is where they fail.
They care only for strength and skill.
A flower won't be beckoned to grow by stamping upon it.
A tree doesn't grow strong by the blade of the woodman's axe.
Cultivation begets betterment.
All Boethiah does is reward those who have proven themselves to not need it.
Boethiah is not the one to beckon forth perseverance and persistence.
Boethiah is not the one to be at your back, training you to better yourself.
Boethiah is not the one to coax mortals into becoming better versions of themselves.
Boethiah is not the one to understand the nature of mortals and give due teaching.
Boethiah is a daedra's daedra.
Mortals should not be given tough love, as tough love can be no different from cruelty, even with the best of intentions.
Cruelty begets cruelty.
It's no secret that everyone has a snapping point, whether you accept or deny it.
Embracing cruelty is to be cast into the arms of Dagon... or even Bal.
It's one thing to be callused against the harshness of the world. It's another to shut out compassion in valuing only strength.
Boethiah may not be wholely evil, but their teachings alone will only lead to agony.
I suppose that's why Azura is another -Anticipation- Reclamation-- Her teachings meter out the other two.
Ah, whatever.
Just don't say I didn't warn you.
There's always a bigger fish.
Cheerybelle I highly agree with your statement
Boethia doesn't support violence for violence's sake. Boethia supports violence to prove strength. similar to the view of orcs in a sense. not as violence for the sake of evil and destruction like most daedra
Interesting that Boethiah’s mouth is a portal to Oblivion. That might explain how she *ate* Trinimac.
Make Morrwind Great Again !!! =D
"I can't prove that I am alive, but I can prove that _he_ is." **STAB**
Tywin Lannister would be her Champion
Unless he tried to outsmart Clavicus Vile instead...
"The prince who tells you to Git Gud..." HAHAHA im done xD
Can people stop saying others can decide if ESO is cannon or not? Bethesda has already stated ESO is cannon.
Indeed
That the Champion of Boethiah armor mod I see in your video? I see, you too, are a man of culture
OR IS HE
Boethia is one of my favourite Daedric Princes along with Vaermina.
One could argue that Boethiah is the Daedric Prince of fascism. Valuing individual strength, dominance, and a warrior ideal over peace, mercy and equality. The Dunmer practice of slavery could attributed to her teachings. The strong dominating the weak. After all, if those slaves wanted freedom, why didn't they just fight harder(!?) In that respect, I would that she is definitely evil. But this is just showing how subjective the whole good/evil thing is. If you value individual strength and removal of the weak, then to you, she is good. But if you value cooperation and altruism, then she is evil.
I love the insight of this comment.
I think it's more in line with anarchism. Fascism sounds more like Molag Bal. I'd also say that good and evil are mortal conceptions that hold no meaning to the daedra, especially princes.
When i saw that thumb i could only remember one thing.
SINGING, COME TOGETHER, TOGETHER AS ONE, COME TOGETHER, FOR LUCIFER SON.
I think she/he's one of the few princes who should give mortality a try. I'd love to strike her down in battle and taker her realm and her powers from her.
She literally ate Trinimac, an aedric god and crapped him out as Malacath. Even if she was mortal she would still wipe the floor with any mortal who challenges her.
I could, the dragonborn is easily the most powerful force on tamriel right now. Even if I couldn't the first time I can go into the cheat room, mod a few things and take her out that way. hell, you can even kill mehrunes dagon when he shows up at the end of oblivion with the right mods...I think he has like 12 million hit points once you make him killable, and he's too damn big to target you at that point anyway. all it takes is time.
Dragonborn < Dat Frost Troll on the way to High Hrothgar
In lore there are no mods nor cheat room. And you might have a fk ton of armor, max spell absorbtion, but a powerful daedric prince like Boethiah could easily use something like Disarm, Silence, Stasis/Paralysis etc... So there's no fkin way.You just can't fk around with demigods.
That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. First off, lore wise the dragonborn is a demigod. that's why he's the only one that can beat alduin (saying he's weaker than a frost troll just makes you sound retarded). 2nd off, if she's mortal and only using abilities found in game I can beat her, end of story.
@@proximityclockworkx1572 how do i relate to something like
Dragonborn < dat frost troll of high hrothgar
??? So many dohvakiins hace dued by the claws of that frosty shit...
Boethiah - a Daerdic Prince summed up in two little words. "Get Gud".
I know this isn’t the right video to say this but I was rewatching some older builds and I really think you should remaster the sociopath build. Just a thought.
"Slashing a Smoking Tear through The Vale" This guy is a fucking legend.
I argue there are no good or evil spirits, whether they be Aedra or Daedra. Spirits just are. They can seem just like mortals but they are not. Mortals are more nuanced and flexible in their natures. More capable of actual choice. Spirits are just doing what the idea that created them dictates. Good and evil is for mortals, not spirits. Might as well call the wind evil for having blown in a storm that damaged your house. In this case though the wind can talk back. And maybe laugh at you for being so foolish as to expect different.
This is an amazing example. Well said. And I would add that while it would be foolish to call the wind evil and even more not to recognize its dangers... it still can be to one´s benefit to realize there are ways in which the wind can be useful. Thus, Dunmer and their relationship with the Anticipations(reclamations) and even their respect for the House of Troubles as trials to be overcome.
Love the introduction sentence from the Boethiahs Proving book. Just read it and it got me super stocked to learn more about Boethiah
Why does this remind me of Dark Souls?
Oh.. *Git* *Gud*
Set in the Second Era, ESO is canon. I love your lore FudgeMuppet!! I've been an Elder Scrolls fan since the day Daggerfall came out and I thought I knew it all and you continue to educate me! Love your work and I agree with you about Boethia.
Funny thing is the eso hero is mentioned in elder scrolls arena. If you visit taverns in moorowind some of the dunmer will use the expression "by the souless one"
Of course, Boethia is not bad, he just murders his followers who can not guess his preferences. And only dedicated to treason and murder. Friend, that does not make sense.
In the same story you tell about Boethiah and his followers, it is clear that the Daedric Prince ends your life just because you do not know what he wants.
It also weakened the Chimer. You say that Boethiah told the Chimmer that the Altmer were weak, but who is the weak one? The Dunmers were conquered by the first empire of the nords, and later by Talos. And the current state of Morrowind is deplorable. On the contrary, Summerset Isles was only conquered by the Numidium, and is currently one of the best provinces, in fact, they have always been among the best.
So Trinimac was right, and Boethiah only managed to split the mer. Something that can be expected from the Daedric Prince of murders, conspiracies and betrayal. Boethiah does not want the best for the dunmer, just play with them.
Were they conquered by the first empire of the Nords? Yes. And that same empire also took over a great deal of Dwemer cities for a time as well, but it wasn't forever. Even then the argument can be made that both groups were weakened at the time due to fighting each other and with internal fighting, hence why it was possible, but also at the time the Tongues were still a massive part of the Nord armies, which the Dwemer and Chimer just had no means of counteracting.
Talos did not conquer Morrowind, and in fact dreaded the idea of it. Vivec willingly came to the negotiating table first and through the Armistice, gained an immense amount of clout and freedom for Morrowind and the Dunmer under the Septim Dynasty.
After the death of Uriel VII, four things happened that left Morrowind in the 'deplorable state' it is in now.
1. The Oblivion Crisis. Everyone sans the Argonians were hit hard by this. This wasn't any fault of the Dunmer as a species since everybody got hit by this, and Mehrunes Dagon is one of the Four Corners of the House of Troubles
2. Baar Dau (originally sent by Sheogorath, another member of the House of Troubles) falling on Vivec (the city). With the vanishing of Vivec (the god), the moon of Baar Dau finished it's descent and landed on Vivec (the city) destroying it and causing...
3. Red Mountain erupting. Kinda explains itself
4. The Argonian invasion of Morrowind. This one is the one most arguably the fault of the Dunmer and that they were 'deserving of it', as it were. Due to enslaving Argonians for centuries, seeing the weakness of the Dunmer the Argonians invaded to reclaim land and simply pay back the Dunmer for everything they'd done. Which is, honestly, a very Boethiah-thing to do: Strike an enemy when they're down and take what they have.
On the Altmer and Summerset, as you said, Talos used Numidium he had gotten from the Tribunal to conquer the Second Aldmeri Dominion. Instead of using his legions, he had a weapon of unparalled might, and utterly decimated them effortlessly because of it.
Handing over the Numidium IMO is also a thing Boethiah would approve of as well, for such a pragmatic move. It prevented the unneeded slaughter of good, strong Dunmer. There was also a personal enjoyment knowing that the powerful tool of the long-gone Dwemer was used to crush the Altmer under it's heal. In short, it left the Dunmer strong, and their enemy (the Altmer in this case) weakened.
I remind you that the nords were also worn out by the war of extermination they had with the snow elves, just as with their war of conquest against several nations; not only fought against the Dunmer and Dwemer.
And it is the point. According to FudgeMuppet's argument, Boethiah and in any case, Mephala and Azura, watched over the Dunmer, even telling them that the Altmers were weak. Then they should have given them more power with which they could destroy or at least defend themselves from the nords, but that never happened. And the thu'um, although it is powerful, is just another style of magic, and not anybody used it, so it's not like it was something that made the nords invincible. And even so, the Dunmers were conquered, even fighting in their native land, which gives them an advantage when they know the terrain.
And that's the point, they had to accept the terms of Talos, something that for example, the "weak" of the Altmer never accepted until they were conquered by the Numidium. Which shows that in terms of power, the Altmers were stronger. That is why I said that the Dunmers were conquered by Talos. Therefore, the argument of FudgeMuppet is not sustained.
About your points of the Morrowind state:
1.- The first one is not useful, because as you say, every province of Tamriel suffered the invasion, so it is not an excuse since other provinces also suffered it and were not so affected.
2.- This was the fault of Vivec himself, because instead of destroying Baar Dau, he left it there as a sign of his power. And it also shows the little power of the Dunmers, because without Vivec, they were not able to get rid of such a rock until it fell. Where is that great supposed power? On the contrary, those of the Psijic Order are able to disappear their island at will, without counting other types of powers such as stopping time.
3.- This point is acceptable, but it is not like any other province does not suffer from similar problems, such as Winterhold.
4.- That is another point that refutes the argument of FudgeMuppet. The Argonians, who were just slaves for the Dunmers, and were considered a "weak" race, and much less skilled in the development of weapons and magic, managed to conquer much of Morrowind, and even almost exterminated the "great magicians" of the House Telvanni. Not to mention, again, that the Dunmers had a great advantage because they were in their province and they know the terrain. That only shows the great weakness of the Dunmer, something bequeathed by Boethiah himself, because his entire culture is based on conspiracy and treason, which generates great and powerful subjects, but when it comes to fighting against others, they are extremely weakened by their own internal fights that end up giving them a beating, in the same way they were given by the nords in their first empire. This type of problems to organize can be seen in the text: On Morrowind, where it just shows how the Great Houses can not adequately plan the defense of their home. Even The Lord High Councilor of the Grand Council was killed for not accepting the peace agreement.
So FudgeMuppet argument does not hold up. The Dunmers, thanks to the teachings of the Dedra, especially Boethiah, have a culture that only causes their own self-destruction. And it leaves them weak before the other races, on the contrary, the Altmer maintain a more stable and powerful society. For which I repeat, Trinimac was right, and the Dunmer exodus only weakened the mer, especially Dunmer himself. Boethiah only honors his conspiracy and treason features: and plays with the Dunmers.
And only as extra data to end up showing how their culture affects them. You can see the case that is given in Windhelm, because although there is discrimination against the mer in general, Niranye has managed to prosper his business, and about the dunmer he says this: "It was difficult at first. The Nords of this city are, at best, suspicious of outsiders. But in time, I made the right friends and proved myself useful enough that they don't give me trouble anymore. The dark elves are too proud and naive to understand the way things truly are, and so they continue to dwell in that slum." That just shows how their culture stops them and makes them weaker in the end, which gives Niranye a better position.
Boethiah ended them because they were weak and unworthy
No, Boethiah killed them because they did not guess what he wanted. It is a fallacy of non sequitur what you say, does not logically follow that by not knowing what a person thinks, or in this case, a Daedra, it means that you are weak. The only logical conclusion of not knowing what someone thinks is that you are not omniscient.
You can even check the book: Invocation of Azura, where the author states that Boethiah does not care about his followers, he only cares about blood. Even in the book: Boethiah's Glory, it is stipulated that you are nothing but dust for Boethiah.
If you do not know what your God expects from you, then how can you even be considered worthy?
I liked that you used the Morrowind battle music for Boethiah. Very appropriate.
Boethiah is, sort of, like Dagon. They are both simply the forces of existence, rather like Sheogorath. They act only to further the mortals.
Dagon is the Fire of Revolution.
Sheogorath is the Rolling of the Bones.
Boethiah is the Culling of the Herd.
All three are simply aspects of Darwinian evolution. Disruption, Mutation, Judgement.
She is the enbodiement of survial of the fittest
You make him sound far too honorable and caring, lets list again, what his domains are :deceit, conspiracy, secret plots of murder, assassination, treason, and unlawful overthrow of authority, just to list a few. Name a time those actions were used for good. I think it is just a cruel enjoyment he gets watching mortal kill each other, as his playthings. Boethiah sees the world as cruel because he is cruel, can't see it any other way. And in case there is any doubt that they are evil "the daedra, who were born from the blood of Padomay, and thus are only evil." The Annotated Anuad.
Name a time those were used for good?
The original 13 Colonies vs The British Government in the Revolutionary War
Haitian slaves vs the French during the Haitian Slave rebellions
the Maroons vs the British Government during the Jamaican Slave rebellions
the French peasantry vs the French monarchs during the French Revolution
Student Revolutionary Directorate vs the Batista's corrupt Republic of Cuba during the Cuban Revolution
You can go on and on to infinity. Plots to murder, assassination, treason, and unlawful overthrow of authority are all tools just like a gun. Just because something is "Lawful" doesn't make it just.
I was gonna say the same thing. It's good if they are overthrowing tyrants. Heck, it's one of the only ways to overthrow a tyrant
Chaotic good doesn't care about laws, they do what they feel is correct for the greater good, even if it's viewed as immoral by greater society. Their intentions are usually pure regardless of what society thinks.
The Anuad is an oversimplified fairy tale for Elven children.
ok, everyone else, you've changed my mind, but Osip, the Anuad is for anyone not just children, there is a simplified version of it called a children's anuad tho. But just as often as not these actions are used for evil
Boethiah is like that Boxing trainer that will see you go through hell and back, that will kick your teeth in over and over, whom you will never like, but whom you'll come to appreciate.
Bc he isn't doing it out of some perverse, sadistic desire to see you suffer. He does it bc you come to him weak and he knows you can be strong, so he will drag you through the trenches until that strength emerges, and you become a better version of yourself. He knows there is a future champion underneath. A diamond hiding in coal. And he will either make it come out or brake it.
Boethiah sees potential in mortals. She wants them to overcome great odds so that they emerge ever stronger.
I mean you can decide ESO isn't canon in your books, you would be wrong but you can do it :3 (but really i was more surprised that Legends is actually canon too, it's just something that exist)
On topic, Yeah she's evil in the way that the Spartan (or the Orc) would be evil, holding a different type of morality and value instead of going against their or acting without.
That story made perfect sense to me
Guess I'm going to follow-up on that dunmer that jumped me outside Whiterun.
8:39 Um...no, you can't. Like it or not, ESO is canon.
boethia has never really been stated to be outright evil, she/he is one of the more 'grey' dedric princes
Sublime analysis - I would never have realised this
21st!
As much as I love Sheogorath's delightful madness, Nocturnal's mysterious shadows, Molag Bal's cruel subjugation, Hermaeus Mora's forbidden knowledge, and Hircine's bestial instincts, if I had to choose one Deadric Prince to worship it would be Boethiah, and her overwhelming power. Best of all, to her, victory is victory no matter how it's attained. Whether that be through honorable combat, a silver tongue, or more... underhanded means. And of course, the Elder Scrolls is nothing if not an overarching quest for power and victory.
Besides, who else ate a god and shat out another Deadric Prince? Nobody, that's who.
I bet you're a competitive person.
ESO is canon.
It's been confirmed by the creators themselves.
Marvelous Chester You’re in the wrong neighborhood there bud.
Thank you!!! Not sure why folks are still trying push that it's not.
Proximus are you mental? The creators of the game and BGS have both confirmed multiple times that ESO is canon. There are several statements from ZOS and BGS specifically naming ESO as part of canon lore along with TES Legends. Please, your stupid is showing.
8:35 to the people that don't know what I'm talking about.
Hi guys I know you probably won't read this or accept my request however I still play alot of fallout 4 and i would love you to do a modded sniper build. Backstory: The sniper was a highly respected and well known American sniper seargent in the great war . The rest of the backstory would be upto you guys as I'm not very creative: I will let you decided starting stats as there are two viable ways of playing this build being a stealth sniper and a frontline heavy sniper. Weapons: I suggest the Lee enfield sniper rifle from the Lee enfield mod and the deliverer from the railroad questline as well as pickmans blade or a combat knife however until you can get these weapons i suggest a silenced 10mm pistol and a basic scoped hunting rifle. For armor I reccomend using azar holstered weapons and putting a singular rifle on your back as well as the rebel outfit WG from the mercenary pack as well as the wastelander gloves from the same mod. I will leave the rest up to you guys as I'm not creative please do make this modded build it is so much fun
The changing pronouns made it kinda hard to listen to...
10:30 "He sculpted them into winners who used mortality to fuel their advancements, rather than moping losers who blame Lorkan for their shortcomings."
Moping loser Thalmor: "I feel personally called out."
Boethiah Just wants you to *CLEAN YOUR ROOM*
"Power is everything those who rule live luxuriously and those who serve toil and perish" So just like irl
The observation that the Daedra have the privilege to fail infinite times and get back up whereas mortals just die is astute.
Boethiah is a privileged king pitting mortals against each other as gladiators for her amusement. Eternal gladiatorial games and Tamriel's mortals are so much grist. Boethiah will *never* be similarly touched.
He's "evil" for the material effect of what he does, cause misery, and not for his intentions.
Fudge Muppet could sell snow to an Eskimo
the one quest i never finished in skyrim: i brought a victim (lydia) to the shrine but right after the kill, i restarted the game (never load a save in a modded game ingame and dont use autosaves) and used the console to get the armour.
Good argument, lot of lore and intricate details. Well reasoned and presented. Very enjoyable video. [thumbs up]
in short you can say a elder scrolls version of survival of the fittest, only the strong survive be a mage or a berserk warrior orc. love the video!!