Heads up - we still have a coupon with NMA, but the one in the video no longer works. You can use the new code DRAWABOX for 25% off your first billing cycle on either the Library or Library+ plans. For the most current coupon/terms, check the banner at the top of the drawabox.com website.
"There is a vanishing point for every set of parallel edges." That phrase, right there, was an Eureka moment for me. Uncomfortable: Thank you SO much for creating Drawabox. Also... that intro tho! 😂😂
Hey, I'm a bit confused about this statement, is it like there is a vanishing point for every set of converging parallel edges? Because in 2 point perspective there are many parallel edges so do we just count the 2 horizontal converging sets and ignore the vertical parallel edges? Can you please clarify
@@Hazelnut008 There really is a vanishing point for every set of edges. The reason why in two point perspective you might "Ignore" the third, is because the third vanishing point is moving parallel to YOUR view(remember that the points are infinitely far away, See 5:56 in video, the circle is infinitely far, as the point becomes parallel to the right, the top and bottom edges appear straight, and we consider that going from 2 point perspective, to 1 point perspective). One more concept, the closer vanishing points are to the center of your view, the faster they converge. Imagine you are in that sphere, looking at the box in front of you(Lets imagine 4:12) if you move that box so you are looking more directly at the edge rotating it upwards, the vanishing point towards the bottom moves further below, until that vanishing point is directly below the box, at that point it is parallel with you, and at that point the edges converge so slowly they appear to be straight. If you tilt/rotate that box to look more towards the corner, that bottom vanishing point moves upwards, closer to where you can see it, towards the center of the horizon. To restate. Objects naturally have parallel edges. As a useful term/idea, we will group all those edges that are parallel with each other and call it a set. If an edge exists going a different angle, it needs to go into a different group/set. We then apply perspective to EACH set of edges, all edges within a set are then drawn towards their vanishing point. Points that are parallel to the Horizon Line(Parallel to YOUR vision) make edges in that set look straight relative to each other. The closer to the center of your vision that they get, the faster they converge. The more to the straight sides of your vision(closer to parallel), the slower.
In 2 point perspective, the horizontal and vertical lines you talk about form two different vanishing points that are separate from each other, that go form an infinite line parallel to the viewer's line of sight. But the original commentor's point is that you should evaluate each and every parallel edge, and see if the vanishing point goes parallel to the viewer's line of sight or not. The point perspective doesn't matter, only the vanishing point does.
As a comp sci major, awesome explanation of perspective and projection. I knew I'd use linear algebra again one day 😂 Serioulsy, though these concepts are a lot easier to follow with math, but you've explained it amazingly well for artists (me included as I don't always think in comp sci 😂)
I'm glad the explanation resonated with you! It's definitely a very challenging thing to explain, and I don't doubt that it still falls short of getting there for some people - but one step at a time!
I have a masters degree in computer engineering, but have quit pursuing that career. It makes me super happy whenever I can make use of my math knowledge to understand art concepts, feels like all those years of uni were not *completely* wasted :D
"now that you're confused..." 😂 I understand it on a large scale, breaking it down sometimes confuses me more. I love these videos, I suck at staying consistent with things that aren't easy but these are made to where I can understand them and even if I am confused, I usually figure it out by the end of the video LMAO. Thank you for these!!!
It means you're learnin :) Keep going, watch it again Like he said in the video, these concepts are not expected for you to fully understand right away...
I'm glad to hear that! It's definitely something that had me scratching my head for a good while too. ...Hell, it still confuses me now. I had to reupload the videos relating to the rotated boxes exercise before I was able to avoid saying things backwards.
Great explanation. It had never occurred to me to see the horizon line as a circle. Then I had a facepalm moment. Because we are standing on a sphere, of course the horizon is a circle. This has helped me greatly, thank you.
YES! a new reformatted lesson! Question, how do you keep up the motivation or energy to drawing everyday and not be afraid of to draw in and of itself?
Don't rely on motivation. That thing comes and goes and it often feels out of your control. What you need is a structure and discipline, like let say, you make your own schedule and decide you are going to draw a certain amout of time, x days of the week. You don't need motivation for that, you just do it, even if it's not perfect. Also, you dont NEED to draw/practice every day that works for me at least!
I agree with inkpendude Discipline and structure help immensely Remind yourself that it's ok if you don't draw every day or as consistently as you like. What really matters is just continuing
Many view motivation as a fickle beast and discipline as the stable workhorse, but I don't think this paints a complete picture. It is true that motivation comes and goes, but discipline requires a great deal of energy to develop and maintain (how much so differs from person to person). Remember that the goal (I assume) is to improve your drawing ability. In that case, practicing is a means to that end. “Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe.” - Abraham Lincoln If you imagine your goal of improvement as a tree you need to chop down, drawing every day would be like consistently going out to hack away at the tree each morning. Assuming you have good form, you will likely make consistent progress. If on the other hand, you occasionally take the time to sharpen the axe when it is dull-while you may lose a day or two-you will more than make up for that lost time with the improved efficiency provided by the axe. I like to view cultivating motivation as sharpening the axe. I believe motivation and discipline are not at odds but can be used in combination to make the best and healthiest workflows. How much you rely on one or the other will depend on you as a person and what you find works best. As others here have suggested, you don't have to practice every day, and you can use your downtime to build motivation, simply by engaging with the things you enjoy or that inspire you to draw. If you want to look more into how to develop/utilize motivation yourself, these are two of my favorite videos on that (I would post the links, but TH-cam isn't fond of that): ○ You're Not Lazy: How to Live a Chaotically Organised Life - Elizabeth Filips ○ The Cost of Willpower - Sycra
Looks like you've gotten a lot of good responses from the others - I'll just throw this short blurb I wrote in response to someone else asking a similar question ages ago: drawabox.com/article/motivation
This is friggin ingenious. In order to get a better grasp of it´s application (1/2- point perspective), I recommend the video Perspective drawing in Photoshop Grids and Tips (no, you don’t need Photoshop, just to get an understanding)
Wow, first time understanding how 1/2/3 point perspective are connected. It makes totally sense that the parallel lines of 1/2 point perspective have a vanishing point but because it's invinite far away the lines are parallel. Thank you!
I really wanted to make a video of my own on perspective to try to really explain it in a more clear and concise way, but I couldn't really figure out how i could do it. I was trying to make my own explanatory animations but the way its been done here is so good and illustrated really well that I don't need to do anything anymore.
Appreciate the reframing of 1/2/3-point naming convention as instead being number infinity VPs, really helps to realize they are all the same thing. But i gotta say i still have no idea what you were trying to say with the whole "circular horizon" part lmao
The vp moves slower to the center cause it has less distance to travel to be *perpendicular* with the viewer while the other is moving faster cause it has more distance to move *parallel* to the viewer. also the box being the same place as the student is because the distance between them and the object means basically nothing in the massive scope of "infinity".Hope this helps in simplier terms for people.
Very brand new here. a few months ago I tried to tumble a box doing 60ish drawings. I got the idea from seeing someone else's work. but I noticed that they were just kinda guessing at the angles and weren't really drawing the box how it should look at its view point. so... using my very basic understanding of perspective I attempted to make a more correct version of the excersize. lets just say it ended horribly. this lesson has totally explained where I went wrong. Thanks. :)
So, for anybody else that is a math head like me, you can just imagine that the vanishing point will move like the sin of the angle between the page and the object in question, so in the beggining, if you rotate a square 30º, what you will get is an equivalent "distance" on the page of about 0.5, but for you to get to 1 it will take you +60º, so it is slower the closer it gets to 90º. That also explains how you see the size of the rotating face. Because it is a 2D plane, what you are actually seeing is just the cos of the triangle, so in the first 30º, considering it is a perfect cube, the horizontal size of the rotated part will be .87 of the original size, but rotate it to 60º and it is now .5 of the original size, it is increasing in speed. So vanish points decrease in speed the closer they get to the center (because it is determined by the sin) and the width of the face decreases faster the closer it gets to the center (because it is determined by cos). This is really hard to explain by text, if only you could watch my hands now...
This is kinda confusing. When you talked about the box rotating, you talked about the vanishing points moving along the horizon. But for me i'd just imagine it as "this part of the box is getting further away as it rotates, so it gets smaller" and imagining the rotation in my head. Is this a bad way of doing it? I've drawn 3d stuff before this course and never really thought of vanishing points and never knew the terminology. I just saw it as "thats just how it works" lol.
Faces = one point perspective Edges = two point perspective Corners = three point perspective Dont take this literally or seriously im just jotting this down for future notes and if anyone wants to see.
I've been tempted to try out the paid version of DB, but I was wondering. Should I wait for the updated version of these videos? I've had trouble sticking to the course several times before, and the updated videos are a lot easier for me to follow than the old ones
Whenever people express hesitancy to start on the course because the material is slowly being updated, I usually respond explaining that the material itself isn't changing - it's just an attempt to make the explanations more concise and generally make them easier to understand where possible. So in essence, all the information is still there, and in a lot of ways the overhaul serves to help those who *aren't* on the official critique track. Those on the official critique track get any additional clarification/information/etc. already as part of the feedback they receive, the update to the material is to extend that to everyone else. What you mentioned however was that you struggled to get through the material in its older form because it wasn't clear enough. That may put more weight towards waiting, but it's hard for me to recommend that *anyone* wait for the simple reason that we are unable to commit to any specific timeline in terms of when the overhaul will be completed. Our priority will always be first and foremost to get the official critique track students their feedback, so we're working against a continuous flow of homework submissions, only able to work on the overhaul in between them. To that point, remember that the way Drawabox is structured doesn't require you to understand the lecture material perfectly (or necessarily well) before moving onto the exercises, nor does it require you to do the exercises perfectly or well either. It requires you to make your best effort to apply the instructions, to go through the material patiently, etc. but mistakes *will* occur, and there will be misunderstandings. The feedback is there to address such things, one-on-one. Are there cases where we're not able to provide as much support as a student may require? Certainly. Learning disabilities, language barriers, and other such factors have in the past gone beyond what we can provide with the very limited resources we have to offer, but things have to be pretty extreme to get to that point, and it's fairly rare. What's very common however are students who just need extra guidance and clarification, and if the updated videos are helping you to understand it better, then I expect the feedback we provide to our students will do much the same - it's just that you'll get it *after* having made your attempt. Ultimately the homework one submits serves not to demonstrate how capable you are - it's there to highlight to us what you're *not* getting, what needs that clarification, so we can provide it. Hopefully that extra information will help you make your decision. And of course, remember that we also have a large discord server that is open to everyone, where students help one another as best they can, for free.
@@Uncomfortable Thank you for clarifying. After losing steam and not getting past the 250 box challenge for 3 or so years this is very encouraging to hear! I'll be having a look at the patreon soon :)
Tbh the concept of VP at infinity and the inconsistency with VP rotation makes sense when I just think of it like a math problem where we're using rules that'd make a nice sci-fi movie if we tried it in real life. The main thing I'm interested in is how someone thought this up and how it can be applied to drawings because it's essentially deciding to bend space itself to find answers to the way the world works.
Very informative and incredibly presented but I can't help but feel that I came out of these three videos with zero practical information that I can apply to the common issues I'll actually face in drawing which is a trend I find among perspective videos, always the concepts but never how to use them in any relatable situations outside of boxes. Hopefully it helps others more.
Keep in mind that this is one video in a much larger course. The intent is not to publish individual tips and tricks, but rather for students to follow the course in its entirety in order to develop their underlying spatial skills - not by watching a single video, but by ingesting the lectures, and then practicing the assigned exercises. The course as a whole begins here: drawabox.com/lesson/0
@@illustramantic We are working through overhauling the video/demo content in order, so this is as far through the course as we've gotten. We're ultimately going to get to it all, but we have limited resources and our priority has to be on handling the continuous stream of homework submissions that we are required to critique, so the overhaul will progress at its own pace.
So, vanishing points actually related to the ratio of sine and cosine right? Because I find the left vanishing point, when object is rotated by 30 degree clockwise is about 0.5 /1 (to being parallel), and the right is about 0.86/1. Foreshotening rate relied on how you stretch that circle to the depth axis. I could be wrong about this.
Honestly my recollection of trigonometry is pretty bad - despite having worked as a game programmer, where that stuff comes up somewhat frequently. So it's entirely possible that you're right, but I'm not really the one to confirm/deny it.
@@Uncomfortable After a few day thinking about it, It's indeed the case (but only when there's no vanishing point), and the rate of foreshortening is the distance of object and the viewer I think based on the formula f(x) = 1/x, where x is the distance. Regardless, thank you very much for teaching us to draw.
why is it considered that the vanishing point is infinite,only when it’s parallel toward viewers eyesight? Aren’t all the VPs infinite? At we we can’t see the edges, it is still counts right? More i rewatch it, the more i get it and more questions arise. Thank you so much for this course
Vanishing points are indeed points that are infinitely far away from the viewer - but in this context, when we specifically talk about vanishing points "at infinity", we're talking about the convergence between the lines they govern, and the specific cases where those governed lines do not actually converge on the page. The main distinction here is between whether or not those lines on the page actually converge towards a "concrete" vanishing point, or whether they continue to run parallel on the page. You can think of it as though the vanishing point in terms of what it represents in 3D space is always infinite - but when we talk about a vanishing point as it exists in the 2D space of the page, sometimes it's concrete (so the lines it governs converge to it), and sometimes it's infinite (those lines never converge and remain parallel on the page). This is determined by the orientation of the edges those lines represent in 3D space, and whether they run perpendicular to the viewer's angle of sight or not. I know it can be tricky, because it requires us to sort through similar (or the same) terminology, keeping in mind whether the context is in the 2D space of the page, or the 3D space of the world we're trying to depict.
@@Uncomfortable so is it possible for some objects that are tilted to have completely different "horizon lines" or lines where their x and z's meet that are not on our horizon line ?
Oh my gosh, unrelated but this video's intro threw me off for a moment (as all the previous ones just consisted of the logo and nothing else) and I burst out laughing from the peep running away from the approaching box ;u;
We talk about line weight a bit later in the 250 box challenge. Not in a video, but here in the written material: drawabox.com/lesson/250boxes/1/lineweight and drawabox.com/lesson/250boxes/1/overlaps
thank you , could you please tell us how much should i do each exercise since as you did mention there're bunch of people who had completed them in one year , i can't get it because it doesn't make sense to me if i did one exercise each two days that wouldn't take me much time so how could that be one year to do nine exercises !!!
This course has many exercises, and they're assigned in varying quantities - so just follow the instructions as you come across them. Don't worry about how long it will take, only about giving each task as much time as you require to do it to the best of your ability, as explained here: th-cam.com/video/nBjTGvpd-q8/w-d-xo.html But yes, it's not at all abnormal for this course to take a year. The students taking it all have different lives and schedules - some students can commit a few hours each day, while others can only commit a few hours every week. Those who attempt to complete it in a set amount of time however tend to rush, and don't get nearly as much out of it all as they could have - or they find themselves struggling further into it, and end up taking even more time as a result.
After this video, I like to think of it the other way around: We are counting the lines perpendicular to the viewer's line of sight. 3 point perspective = for a box, no perpendicular lines 2 point perspective = for a box, 1 perpendicular line 1 point perspective = for a box, 2 perpendicular lines. 0 point perspective = for a box, 3 perpendicular lines. This is not possible in 3D space for perspective drawing, because how do you do that? Tilt, rotate, move the box all you want: It will not have 3 perpendicular lines.
Hello again, is it totally normal for me to read through all three parts and watched 3 of the videos but only understood a bit? I'm considering reading the thing again, but I might not understand anything again. What should I do?
It is entirely normal. The thing is, people often expect learning to involve first understanding the theory, then applying it successfully. That may be how it works in certain fields (can't really speak to that), but it's not what happens here. In drawing, you learn by doing. The explanations and the theory are basically there because students more often than not are terrified of the idea of just doing something without first having understood *some* aspect of the theory - but really it's there to bait them into getting to the exercise in the first place. It's the exercise which allows students to actually work with the concept, to go through designated steps, and to make mistakes (which then highlight what might need to be explained again, perhaps differently, through feedback). Then once we at least establish that you're performing the exercise as intended, with the intended goals to aim for, you continue working at that exercise on your own and thus *develop* that understanding. Not consciously, not like you'd read it in a book, but more like something physical, like learning to dribble a ball. You don't understand all the physics behind it, but you know how to perform the task. Conscious understanding isn't as required as people think - what it is required for is *teaching*. In order to teach this stuff, I had to spend a ton of time reflecting upon how all this works, and so while I didn't grasp *any* of what I explain in this video even when I was working as a concept artist and illustrator, I had to go back and think about how it all worked so I could teach it. But that won't be necessary for you, so don't worry about it. Continue onto the exercises, and after you've gotten through Lesson 1 maybe revisit this material in the future, and it may make more sense. And if it still doesn't, no big deal.
@@Uncomfortable Thanks for sharing your guidance, really. I remembering going through the first 2 days of DAB but ended up quitting DAB, but came back after the next day of quitting. Currently, I'm struggling with the part of rotation and organic parts of the DAB course of lesson 1, I'm still trying my best to dissect it. Thanks for your perspective on this kind of situation though! Do have a nice day ahead :)
Our instincts, trained by traditional academics, tell us that understanding all of this theory is important. But trust me when I say this - it's not nearly as important as one might think. Really, we provide the theory because many people simply refuse to dive into the exercises without first attempting to understand the logic behind what they're doing - but regardless, it's really the exercises themselves, and the repeated practice of them, which results in understanding. What I explain here, I only know because in order to teach this stuff, I had to go back and reflect on *how* I was drawing. When professionals draw, they aren't pulling from a list of facts they've memorized - it's that having done all of that practice resulted in an intuitive understanding of 3D space, which they are leveraging without thinking about it. So when I worked as an illustrator and concept artist, I didn't actually understand the theory I explain here. I may have applied it intuitively, but I didn't understand it in a way that I could explain it to others - and so, you don't need to worry too much if you don't understand this stuff either. The only people who *need* to, are the people teaching it.
@@Uncomfortable Of course Traditional academia shaped me too much to understand all the theory and finally I got fed up and decided not to study. It is very difficult to start from scratch, like uprooting a disease that is already very deep. But what is clear, I will try the practice again with the understanding provided by the course. But another thing, when I studied drawing for 5 years but the changes were not significant and stagnant. Does that mean the path chosen is wrong and half-hearted?
@@YoneKenway Honestly I wouldn't waste too much energy thinking about the past. I've been drawing as a regular hobby since I was 12, and I spent a decade improving very slowly because I didn't do any exercises or follow any courses, and just drew when I felt like it (or otherwise stared at a blank page being afraid to draw). I did improve, but it was very gradual - but at the end of the day, those are the choices I made with the information I had. It may not have been the most efficient path, but it's the path that I took. Then, after that, I spent a year doing my own studies/exercises and trying to add structure to my approach to help fill in my gaps, while simultaneously working full time and saving up my money, and I improved *much* more quickly. And for the six months after that, I took that money I saved and moved across the continent to take courses from respected instructors, and improved even more quickly from there. Nothing happens in isolation though - what I spent on that first ten years helped me make the most out of the studies and exercises I was doing for the year that followed, and all of that helped me get the most out of the instructors and courses I took for the six months after that. So while I could sit here and regret that I didn't start with the instructors/courses, I'd be ignoring everything that I had to do to make that possible in the first place. At the end of the day, it's a waste of energy. Look at what you can do now, and focus on the path ahead of you, not what lays behind.
@@Uncomfortable Thanks for the inspiration! I'm also a little confused by other people who can be good at it in 5 years. That's why I said something like that. But your words strengthen me again!
4 and 5 point perspective, as they're called anyway, do not really belong to the same family nor follow the same overall principles as 1, 2, and 3 point perspective and are specifically related to creating a fish-eye effect. As such, they don't really apply here. What we're discussing here is the core concept of what vanishing points are, what they represent, and how they behave. You can think of 4 and 5 point perspective as twisting those rules in order to create a stylized effect.
@@Uncomfortable Thank you for clarifying! As I kept progressing, and eventually did the rotated boxes exercise, I kinda realised that it was what I was calling a four-point perspective/fisheye anyway... 😅😅
@@Namse21 Not quite. That's actually a common mistake students make, but in 4 and 5 point perspective, it's all about stylizing the manner in which the viewer observes the things around them. What you're thinking of is not an arrangement of boxes rotated around a central point to create a sort of staggered "sphere". What you're thinking of is a wall of boxes, but due to the fish-eye perspective being used, it causes them to appear curved. When going through this course, it's really best not to introduce outside concepts that we don't talk about - 4 and 5 point perspective being a good example of this. It's only going to confuse you and cause you to misunderstand or misattribute the concepts we're talking about before they've fully taken root in your understanding.
3 point perspective is mentioned several times throughout the video - can you clarify which part of the video you're talking about? If I had to guess, you may be talking about the portion discussing vanishing points at infinity, and how that can yield 1/2 point perspective. The reason I didn't get into 3 point perspective in that context is that 3 point perspective consists of 3 concrete vanishing points, none of which are at infinity.
I get that perspective isn't the main subject of this course but JFC it so badly explained in this video, holy F. I hope he remakes this at some point.
4:29 it should be explained with picture plane and station point. I don't know why everyone wants to just pretend these things do not exist and trying to explain perspective with something they invented.
I'm sure you have put a great deal of effort into these videos but for me they are just too longwinded. Would be more helpful if you were more concise.
@@brap97 "not fun"? you do realize that drawing is a extremely difficult and complex subject to study with a lot of information and practice involved right? What he is suppose to do? crack a amongus joke every 5 sec instead of getting to the point?
@@LucyValentine708 "drawing is a extremely difficult and complex subject to study with a lot of information and practice involved" This is exactly what I mean. You shouldnt have this mindset, it stresses you out and makes you quit. If you view it as "extremelly diffictult, with a lot of stuff to study" instead of "full of fun new things to learn and add to my art" then its already over for you. Watch Mithrilda and Embodied Josh to see what it looks like when you get ravaged by art courses.
@@brap97 but that's the truth. if you are scared by difficult challenges maybe art is not for you. "full of fun new things to learn and add to my art" what are you? a pre-schooler? Remind yourself life is not a bed of roses where everything will go in your way and people will feed you info with a spoon and making sure you understand. Drawabox provided images, gave video demonstrations, all for free.I could not ask for more. You going out your way to call people scammers just because they didn't make it "fun" for you says a lot about you and your intelligence.
Desafortunadamente, solo ofrecemos instrucciones en inglés, pero TH-cam debería permitirle traducir los subtítulos, y Google Translate se puede usar en el contenido escrito en el sitio web de Drawabox.
Heads up - we still have a coupon with NMA, but the one in the video no longer works. You can use the new code DRAWABOX for 25% off your first billing cycle on either the Library or Library+ plans.
For the most current coupon/terms, check the banner at the top of the drawabox.com website.
"There is a vanishing point for every set of parallel edges."
That phrase, right there, was an Eureka moment for me. Uncomfortable: Thank you SO much for creating Drawabox.
Also... that intro tho! 😂😂
Hey, I'm a bit confused about this statement, is it like there is a vanishing point for every set of converging parallel edges? Because in 2 point perspective there are many parallel edges so do we just count the 2 horizontal converging sets and ignore the vertical parallel edges? Can you please clarify
@@Hazelnut008 There really is a vanishing point for every set of edges. The reason why in two point perspective you might "Ignore" the third, is because the third vanishing point is moving parallel to YOUR view(remember that the points are infinitely far away, See 5:56 in video, the circle is infinitely far, as the point becomes parallel to the right, the top and bottom edges appear straight, and we consider that going from 2 point perspective, to 1 point perspective).
One more concept, the closer vanishing points are to the center of your view, the faster they converge.
Imagine you are in that sphere, looking at the box in front of you(Lets imagine 4:12) if you move that box so you are looking more directly at the edge rotating it upwards, the vanishing point towards the bottom moves further below, until that vanishing point is directly below the box, at that point it is parallel with you, and at that point the edges converge so slowly they appear to be straight. If you tilt/rotate that box to look more towards the corner, that bottom vanishing point moves upwards, closer to where you can see it, towards the center of the horizon.
To restate.
Objects naturally have parallel edges. As a useful term/idea, we will group all those edges that are parallel with each other and call it a set. If an edge exists going a different angle, it needs to go into a different group/set.
We then apply perspective to EACH set of edges, all edges within a set are then drawn towards their vanishing point.
Points that are parallel to the Horizon Line(Parallel to YOUR vision) make edges in that set look straight relative to each other.
The closer to the center of your vision that they get, the faster they converge. The more to the straight sides of your vision(closer to parallel), the slower.
In 2 point perspective, the horizontal and vertical lines you talk about form two different vanishing points that are separate from each other, that go form an infinite line parallel to the viewer's line of sight. But the original commentor's point is that you should evaluate each and every parallel edge, and see if the vanishing point goes parallel to the viewer's line of sight or not. The point perspective doesn't matter, only the vanishing point does.
@@zeronothinghere9334 ohh right that makes sense, thanks for clarifying it:)
As a comp sci major, awesome explanation of perspective and projection. I knew I'd use linear algebra again one day 😂 Serioulsy, though these concepts are a lot easier to follow with math, but you've explained it amazingly well for artists (me included as I don't always think in comp sci 😂)
I'm glad the explanation resonated with you! It's definitely a very challenging thing to explain, and I don't doubt that it still falls short of getting there for some people - but one step at a time!
All that studying for the entrance examination is finally helping me in life.
I have a masters degree in computer engineering, but have quit pursuing that career. It makes me super happy whenever I can make use of my math knowledge to understand art concepts, feels like all those years of uni were not *completely* wasted :D
1 year after this is being made, I’m here!
I must say, then ending really brought my head back into it!
"now that you're confused..." 😂 I understand it on a large scale, breaking it down sometimes confuses me more. I love these videos, I suck at staying consistent with things that aren't easy but these are made to where I can understand them and even if I am confused, I usually figure it out by the end of the video LMAO. Thank you for these!!!
this hurts my brain
It means you're learnin :)
Keep going, watch it again
Like he said in the video, these concepts are not expected for you to fully understand right away...
Reminds me of explaining math or science to my wife. I get it now lol. 😅
@@thiagocoppola4957 I read your comment, and felt relieved right away. Thank you for the kind words!
@@zoowai oh nice, thanks. And i am glad to help friend :)
Me too
Amazing explanation. I've been scratching my head on this subject for a while and managed to really get a grasp on it thanks to your video. Thank you!
I'm glad to hear that! It's definitely something that had me scratching my head for a good while too.
...Hell, it still confuses me now. I had to reupload the videos relating to the rotated boxes exercise before I was able to avoid saying things backwards.
Great explanation. It had never occurred to me to see the horizon line as a circle. Then I had a facepalm moment. Because we are standing on a sphere, of course the horizon is a circle. This has helped me greatly, thank you.
YES! a new reformatted lesson! Question, how do you keep up the motivation or energy to drawing everyday and not be afraid of to draw in and of itself?
Don't rely on motivation. That thing comes and goes and it often feels out of your control. What you need is a structure and discipline, like let say, you make your own schedule and decide you are going to draw a certain amout of time, x days of the week. You don't need motivation for that, you just do it, even if it's not perfect.
Also, you dont NEED to draw/practice every day
that works for me at least!
@@inkpendude cool, thx!
I agree with inkpendude
Discipline and structure help immensely
Remind yourself that it's ok if you don't draw every day or as consistently as you like. What really matters is just continuing
Many view motivation as a fickle beast and discipline as the stable workhorse, but I don't think this paints a complete picture. It is true that motivation comes and goes, but discipline requires a great deal of energy to develop and maintain (how much so differs from person to person). Remember that the goal (I assume) is to improve your drawing ability. In that case, practicing is a means to that end.
“Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe.” - Abraham Lincoln
If you imagine your goal of improvement as a tree you need to chop down, drawing every day would be like consistently going out to hack away at the tree each morning. Assuming you have good form, you will likely make consistent progress. If on the other hand, you occasionally take the time to sharpen the axe when it is dull-while you may lose a day or two-you will more than make up for that lost time with the improved efficiency provided by the axe. I like to view cultivating motivation as sharpening the axe. I believe motivation and discipline are not at odds but can be used in combination to make the best and healthiest workflows. How much you rely on one or the other will depend on you as a person and what you find works best.
As others here have suggested, you don't have to practice every day, and you can use your downtime to build motivation, simply by engaging with the things you enjoy or that inspire you to draw.
If you want to look more into how to develop/utilize motivation yourself, these are two of my favorite videos on that (I would post the links, but TH-cam isn't fond of that):
○ You're Not Lazy: How to Live a Chaotically Organised Life - Elizabeth Filips
○ The Cost of Willpower - Sycra
Looks like you've gotten a lot of good responses from the others - I'll just throw this short blurb I wrote in response to someone else asking a similar question ages ago: drawabox.com/article/motivation
Best intro ever
This is friggin ingenious. In order to get a better grasp of it´s application (1/2- point perspective), I recommend the video Perspective drawing in Photoshop Grids and Tips (no, you don’t need Photoshop, just to get an understanding)
The beginning was very reassuring haha ^^
Thank you so much for these lessons!
Woah this actually makes a lot of sense. Really well explained!
I agree. Especially that last little bit with the practical part.
Your lessons are fabulous, thank you. Please be consistent, they are gold mine
Thank you comp sci and maths. I hated you but who knew you would've come in so handy for this video
Wow, first time understanding how 1/2/3 point perspective are connected. It makes totally sense that the parallel lines of 1/2 point perspective have a vanishing point but because it's invinite far away the lines are parallel. Thank you!
I really wanted to make a video of my own on perspective to try to really explain it in a more clear and concise way, but I couldn't really figure out how i could do it. I was trying to make my own explanatory animations but the way its been done here is so good and illustrated really well that I don't need to do anything anymore.
Thank you for the kind words!
Omg the moving vanishing point actially helped me out so much
Confusing? This is the best material bout perspective that I ever saw.
Wait this was posted 2 days ago? Boy I picked some good timing on approaching this lesson
Appreciate the reframing of 1/2/3-point naming convention as instead being number infinity VPs, really helps to realize they are all the same thing.
But i gotta say i still have no idea what you were trying to say with the whole "circular horizon" part lmao
The vp moves slower to the center cause it has less distance to travel to be *perpendicular* with the viewer while the other is moving faster cause it has more distance to move *parallel* to the viewer. also the box being the same place as the student is because the distance between them and the object means basically nothing in the massive scope of "infinity".Hope this helps in simplier terms for people.
Thank you!
Very brand new here.
a few months ago I tried to tumble a box doing 60ish drawings.
I got the idea from seeing someone else's work.
but I noticed that they were just kinda guessing at the angles and weren't really drawing the box how it should look at its view point.
so... using my very basic understanding of perspective I attempted to make a more correct version of the excersize.
lets just say it ended horribly.
this lesson has totally explained where I went wrong. Thanks. :)
So, for anybody else that is a math head like me, you can just imagine that the vanishing point will move like the sin of the angle between the page and the object in question, so in the beggining, if you rotate a square 30º, what you will get is an equivalent "distance" on the page of about 0.5, but for you to get to 1 it will take you +60º, so it is slower the closer it gets to 90º. That also explains how you see the size of the rotating face. Because it is a 2D plane, what you are actually seeing is just the cos of the triangle, so in the first 30º, considering it is a perfect cube, the horizontal size of the rotated part will be .87 of the original size, but rotate it to 60º and it is now .5 of the original size, it is increasing in speed. So vanish points decrease in speed the closer they get to the center (because it is determined by the sin) and the width of the face decreases faster the closer it gets to the center (because it is determined by cos). This is really hard to explain by text, if only you could watch my hands now...
I hate that I can follow that now lol
this is my second week of this course and Im full focus in it.Very stimulated
"Now that youre all properly confused..." 😂nice course tho, i am really building my routine with it. Thanks Uncomfortable!
This is kinda confusing. When you talked about the box rotating, you talked about the vanishing points moving along the horizon. But for me i'd just imagine it as "this part of the box is getting further away as it rotates, so it gets smaller" and imagining the rotation in my head. Is this a bad way of doing it? I've drawn 3d stuff before this course and never really thought of vanishing points and never knew the terminology. I just saw it as "thats just how it works" lol.
Love this overhaul
Faces = one point perspective
Edges = two point perspective
Corners = three point perspective
Dont take this literally or seriously im just jotting this down for future notes and if anyone wants to see.
Imagine being a 4th dimensional art student having to draw tesseracts in 4 point perspective lol
I've been tempted to try out the paid version of DB, but I was wondering. Should I wait for the updated version of these videos? I've had trouble sticking to the course several times before, and the updated videos are a lot easier for me to follow than the old ones
Whenever people express hesitancy to start on the course because the material is slowly being updated, I usually respond explaining that the material itself isn't changing - it's just an attempt to make the explanations more concise and generally make them easier to understand where possible. So in essence, all the information is still there, and in a lot of ways the overhaul serves to help those who *aren't* on the official critique track. Those on the official critique track get any additional clarification/information/etc. already as part of the feedback they receive, the update to the material is to extend that to everyone else.
What you mentioned however was that you struggled to get through the material in its older form because it wasn't clear enough. That may put more weight towards waiting, but it's hard for me to recommend that *anyone* wait for the simple reason that we are unable to commit to any specific timeline in terms of when the overhaul will be completed. Our priority will always be first and foremost to get the official critique track students their feedback, so we're working against a continuous flow of homework submissions, only able to work on the overhaul in between them.
To that point, remember that the way Drawabox is structured doesn't require you to understand the lecture material perfectly (or necessarily well) before moving onto the exercises, nor does it require you to do the exercises perfectly or well either. It requires you to make your best effort to apply the instructions, to go through the material patiently, etc. but mistakes *will* occur, and there will be misunderstandings. The feedback is there to address such things, one-on-one.
Are there cases where we're not able to provide as much support as a student may require? Certainly. Learning disabilities, language barriers, and other such factors have in the past gone beyond what we can provide with the very limited resources we have to offer, but things have to be pretty extreme to get to that point, and it's fairly rare. What's very common however are students who just need extra guidance and clarification, and if the updated videos are helping you to understand it better, then I expect the feedback we provide to our students will do much the same - it's just that you'll get it *after* having made your attempt.
Ultimately the homework one submits serves not to demonstrate how capable you are - it's there to highlight to us what you're *not* getting, what needs that clarification, so we can provide it.
Hopefully that extra information will help you make your decision. And of course, remember that we also have a large discord server that is open to everyone, where students help one another as best they can, for free.
@@Uncomfortable Thank you for clarifying. After losing steam and not getting past the 250 box challenge for 3 or so years this is very encouraging to hear! I'll be having a look at the patreon soon :)
Tbh the concept of VP at infinity and the inconsistency with VP rotation makes sense when I just think of it like a math problem where we're using rules that'd make a nice sci-fi movie if we tried it in real life. The main thing I'm interested in is how someone thought this up and how it can be applied to drawings because it's essentially deciding to bend space itself to find answers to the way the world works.
I'm so glad to have studied geometry and trigonometry for an entire year for my college admission exams lol
Very informative and incredibly presented but I can't help but feel that I came out of these three videos with zero practical information that I can apply to the common issues I'll actually face in drawing which is a trend I find among perspective videos, always the concepts but never how to use them in any relatable situations outside of boxes.
Hopefully it helps others more.
Keep in mind that this is one video in a much larger course. The intent is not to publish individual tips and tricks, but rather for students to follow the course in its entirety in order to develop their underlying spatial skills - not by watching a single video, but by ingesting the lectures, and then practicing the assigned exercises. The course as a whole begins here: drawabox.com/lesson/0
Have you got to constructional drawing part of the course yet? I mean this information + the boxes exercise will be really helpful at that point.
@@illustramantic We are working through overhauling the video/demo content in order, so this is as far through the course as we've gotten. We're ultimately going to get to it all, but we have limited resources and our priority has to be on handling the continuous stream of homework submissions that we are required to critique, so the overhaul will progress at its own pace.
So, vanishing points actually related to the ratio of sine and cosine right? Because I find the left vanishing point, when object is rotated by 30 degree clockwise is about 0.5 /1 (to being parallel), and the right is about 0.86/1. Foreshotening rate relied on how you stretch that circle to the depth axis. I could be wrong about this.
Honestly my recollection of trigonometry is pretty bad - despite having worked as a game programmer, where that stuff comes up somewhat frequently. So it's entirely possible that you're right, but I'm not really the one to confirm/deny it.
@@Uncomfortable After a few day thinking about it, It's indeed the case (but only when there's no vanishing point), and the rate of foreshortening is the distance of object and the viewer I think based on the formula f(x) = 1/x, where x is the distance. Regardless, thank you very much for teaching us to draw.
Math leaked into my art lesson gonna vomit but thank you so much for this
why is it considered that the vanishing point is infinite,only when it’s parallel toward viewers eyesight? Aren’t all the VPs infinite? At we we can’t see the edges, it is still counts right? More i rewatch it, the more i get it and more questions arise. Thank you so much for this course
Vanishing points are indeed points that are infinitely far away from the viewer - but in this context, when we specifically talk about vanishing points "at infinity", we're talking about the convergence between the lines they govern, and the specific cases where those governed lines do not actually converge on the page.
The main distinction here is between whether or not those lines on the page actually converge towards a "concrete" vanishing point, or whether they continue to run parallel on the page. You can think of it as though the vanishing point in terms of what it represents in 3D space is always infinite - but when we talk about a vanishing point as it exists in the 2D space of the page, sometimes it's concrete (so the lines it governs converge to it), and sometimes it's infinite (those lines never converge and remain parallel on the page). This is determined by the orientation of the edges those lines represent in 3D space, and whether they run perpendicular to the viewer's angle of sight or not.
I know it can be tricky, because it requires us to sort through similar (or the same) terminology, keeping in mind whether the context is in the 2D space of the page, or the 3D space of the world we're trying to depict.
@@UncomfortableThis response is what made everything click for me. Thank you!
2:08 damn you killed that pronunciation!
Wow these were really different, thanks for the good work guys
Thanks! Scylla and I had a particularly tough time with this one.
@@Uncomfortable so is it possible for some objects that are tilted to have completely different "horizon lines" or lines where their x and z's meet that are not on our horizon line ?
easily the most confusing video I've ever seen. I'm on my 3rd or 4th day drawing
Yay new video!
I feel like I have to watch this video 30 more times to be able to comprehend what I just heard.
Oh my gosh, unrelated but this video's intro threw me off for a moment (as all the previous ones just consisted of the logo and nothing else) and I burst out laughing from the peep running away from the approaching box ;u;
Worth every penny!
hey is there a video where you talk about line weight in more depth because i dont really understand how it works
We talk about line weight a bit later in the 250 box challenge. Not in a video, but here in the written material: drawabox.com/lesson/250boxes/1/lineweight and drawabox.com/lesson/250boxes/1/overlaps
thank you , could you please tell us how much should i do each exercise since as you did mention there're bunch of people who had completed them in one year , i can't get it because it doesn't make sense to me if i did one exercise each two days that wouldn't take me much time so how could that be one year to do nine exercises !!!
This course has many exercises, and they're assigned in varying quantities - so just follow the instructions as you come across them. Don't worry about how long it will take, only about giving each task as much time as you require to do it to the best of your ability, as explained here: th-cam.com/video/nBjTGvpd-q8/w-d-xo.html
But yes, it's not at all abnormal for this course to take a year. The students taking it all have different lives and schedules - some students can commit a few hours each day, while others can only commit a few hours every week. Those who attempt to complete it in a set amount of time however tend to rush, and don't get nearly as much out of it all as they could have - or they find themselves struggling further into it, and end up taking even more time as a result.
@@Uncomfortable I really appreciate you're efforts thank you a lot I hope one day I draw as professional as the other artists thank you again!
After this video, I like to think of it the other way around:
We are counting the lines perpendicular to the viewer's line of sight.
3 point perspective = for a box, no perpendicular lines
2 point perspective = for a box, 1 perpendicular line
1 point perspective = for a box, 2 perpendicular lines.
0 point perspective = for a box, 3 perpendicular lines. This is not possible in 3D space for perspective drawing, because how do you do that? Tilt, rotate, move the box all you want: It will not have 3 perpendicular lines.
Hello again, is it totally normal for me to read through all three parts and watched 3 of the videos but only understood a bit? I'm considering reading the thing again, but I might not understand anything again. What should I do?
It is entirely normal. The thing is, people often expect learning to involve first understanding the theory, then applying it successfully. That may be how it works in certain fields (can't really speak to that), but it's not what happens here. In drawing, you learn by doing. The explanations and the theory are basically there because students more often than not are terrified of the idea of just doing something without first having understood *some* aspect of the theory - but really it's there to bait them into getting to the exercise in the first place. It's the exercise which allows students to actually work with the concept, to go through designated steps, and to make mistakes (which then highlight what might need to be explained again, perhaps differently, through feedback). Then once we at least establish that you're performing the exercise as intended, with the intended goals to aim for, you continue working at that exercise on your own and thus *develop* that understanding. Not consciously, not like you'd read it in a book, but more like something physical, like learning to dribble a ball. You don't understand all the physics behind it, but you know how to perform the task.
Conscious understanding isn't as required as people think - what it is required for is *teaching*. In order to teach this stuff, I had to spend a ton of time reflecting upon how all this works, and so while I didn't grasp *any* of what I explain in this video even when I was working as a concept artist and illustrator, I had to go back and think about how it all worked so I could teach it.
But that won't be necessary for you, so don't worry about it. Continue onto the exercises, and after you've gotten through Lesson 1 maybe revisit this material in the future, and it may make more sense. And if it still doesn't, no big deal.
@@Uncomfortable Thanks for sharing your guidance, really. I remembering going through the first 2 days of DAB but ended up quitting DAB, but came back after the next day of quitting. Currently, I'm struggling with the part of rotation and organic parts of the DAB course of lesson 1, I'm still trying my best to dissect it.
Thanks for your perspective on this kind of situation though! Do have a nice day ahead :)
Drawabox veterans after seeing a box "PTSD INTENSIFIED"!!
It is very difficult to note down the concept because it is also difficult to understand it. Is that normal?
Our instincts, trained by traditional academics, tell us that understanding all of this theory is important. But trust me when I say this - it's not nearly as important as one might think. Really, we provide the theory because many people simply refuse to dive into the exercises without first attempting to understand the logic behind what they're doing - but regardless, it's really the exercises themselves, and the repeated practice of them, which results in understanding.
What I explain here, I only know because in order to teach this stuff, I had to go back and reflect on *how* I was drawing. When professionals draw, they aren't pulling from a list of facts they've memorized - it's that having done all of that practice resulted in an intuitive understanding of 3D space, which they are leveraging without thinking about it. So when I worked as an illustrator and concept artist, I didn't actually understand the theory I explain here. I may have applied it intuitively, but I didn't understand it in a way that I could explain it to others - and so, you don't need to worry too much if you don't understand this stuff either. The only people who *need* to, are the people teaching it.
@@Uncomfortable Of course Traditional academia shaped me too much to understand all the theory and finally I got fed up and decided not to study. It is very difficult to start from scratch, like uprooting a disease that is already very deep.
But what is clear, I will try the practice again with the understanding provided by the course.
But another thing, when I studied drawing for 5 years but the changes were not significant and stagnant. Does that mean the path chosen is wrong and half-hearted?
@@YoneKenway Honestly I wouldn't waste too much energy thinking about the past. I've been drawing as a regular hobby since I was 12, and I spent a decade improving very slowly because I didn't do any exercises or follow any courses, and just drew when I felt like it (or otherwise stared at a blank page being afraid to draw).
I did improve, but it was very gradual - but at the end of the day, those are the choices I made with the information I had. It may not have been the most efficient path, but it's the path that I took. Then, after that, I spent a year doing my own studies/exercises and trying to add structure to my approach to help fill in my gaps, while simultaneously working full time and saving up my money, and I improved *much* more quickly. And for the six months after that, I took that money I saved and moved across the continent to take courses from respected instructors, and improved even more quickly from there.
Nothing happens in isolation though - what I spent on that first ten years helped me make the most out of the studies and exercises I was doing for the year that followed, and all of that helped me get the most out of the instructors and courses I took for the six months after that. So while I could sit here and regret that I didn't start with the instructors/courses, I'd be ignoring everything that I had to do to make that possible in the first place.
At the end of the day, it's a waste of energy. Look at what you can do now, and focus on the path ahead of you, not what lays behind.
@@Uncomfortable Thanks for the inspiration! I'm also a little confused by other people who can be good at it in 5 years. That's why I said something like that. But your words strengthen me again!
What about 4 point perspective?
4 and 5 point perspective, as they're called anyway, do not really belong to the same family nor follow the same overall principles as 1, 2, and 3 point perspective and are specifically related to creating a fish-eye effect. As such, they don't really apply here. What we're discussing here is the core concept of what vanishing points are, what they represent, and how they behave. You can think of 4 and 5 point perspective as twisting those rules in order to create a stylized effect.
@@Uncomfortable Thank you for clarifying! As I kept progressing, and eventually did the rotated boxes exercise, I kinda realised that it was what I was calling a four-point perspective/fisheye anyway... 😅😅
@@Namse21 Not quite. That's actually a common mistake students make, but in 4 and 5 point perspective, it's all about stylizing the manner in which the viewer observes the things around them. What you're thinking of is not an arrangement of boxes rotated around a central point to create a sort of staggered "sphere". What you're thinking of is a wall of boxes, but due to the fish-eye perspective being used, it causes them to appear curved.
When going through this course, it's really best not to introduce outside concepts that we don't talk about - 4 and 5 point perspective being a good example of this. It's only going to confuse you and cause you to misunderstand or misattribute the concepts we're talking about before they've fully taken root in your understanding.
Why 3 point perspective not mentioned? i got 1,2 but 3 not,
3 point perspective is mentioned several times throughout the video - can you clarify which part of the video you're talking about? If I had to guess, you may be talking about the portion discussing vanishing points at infinity, and how that can yield 1/2 point perspective. The reason I didn't get into 3 point perspective in that context is that 3 point perspective consists of 3 concrete vanishing points, none of which are at infinity.
Holy smokes
yooo , as a german who is no the best in english it makes me confused so much because i even dont understand all in kind of language :D
5:34 Why did I actually anticipate that calculus would come into play in this video...
Hahaha, I'm going to say it's the fact that infinity plays a pretty big role in all this.
I think my brain died
I get that perspective isn't the main subject of this course but JFC it so badly explained in this video, holy F. I hope he remakes this at some point.
4:29 it should be explained with picture plane and station point. I don't know why everyone wants to just pretend these things do not exist and trying to explain perspective with something they invented.
Julio Souza
ok just made it here 😊 hopefully I'll be able to survive. Let's see 💀
my dumbass can't focus on class because the box moving in persepctive looks cool and pretty i-
Whoever didn't understand anything. 👇
Desculpe, mas não entendi nada
make a fun course please
That was a lot
....A-huh.
oh my god what is this....................... im so dumb
I'm sure you have put a great deal of effort into these videos but for me they are just too longwinded. Would be more helpful if you were more concise.
yapper
Scamming beginners with your courses is the only thing you will ever be known for.
The course is free :)
@@benjaminhansen9393 He baits beginners into buying his "critiques" of boxes. Also the course makes drawing seem like not fun.
@@brap97 "not fun"? you do realize that drawing is a extremely difficult and complex subject to study with a lot of information and practice involved right? What he is suppose to do? crack a amongus joke every 5 sec instead of getting to the point?
@@LucyValentine708 "drawing is a extremely difficult and complex subject to study with a lot of information and practice involved"
This is exactly what I mean. You shouldnt have this mindset, it stresses you out and makes you quit. If you view it as "extremelly diffictult, with a lot of stuff to study" instead of "full of fun new things to learn and add to my art" then its already over for you.
Watch Mithrilda and Embodied Josh to see what it looks like when you get ravaged by art courses.
@@brap97 but that's the truth. if you are scared by difficult challenges maybe art is not for you.
"full of fun new things to learn and add to my art"
what are you? a pre-schooler? Remind yourself life is not a bed of roses where everything will go in your way and people will feed you info with a spoon and making sure you understand.
Drawabox provided images, gave video demonstrations, all for free.I could not ask for more.
You going out your way to call people scammers just because they didn't make it "fun" for you says a lot about you and your intelligence.
"Now that you're all properly confused"
Me who's in lesson 5: 😶
las clases tambien se imparten en español? yo no hablo ingles ) :
Desafortunadamente, solo ofrecemos instrucciones en inglés, pero TH-cam debería permitirle traducir los subtítulos, y Google Translate se puede usar en el contenido escrito en el sitio web de Drawabox.