I'm glad you mentioned the Powermax again. I'd decided to live with it's severe nock high tear until shops open up again and I can get something else. I can't believe Hoyt released a bow with such a major design flaw.
Once again, another great video. You indicated that cam timing is paramount, but you didn't advise on how to adjust it. I believe you shorten the cable to close the timing, but not 100% sure. Also, bullet holes through paper is just a starting point, correct? Walk back tuning your fixed blade broadheads with field points require slight rest adjustments, if I'm not mistaken. Adjusting the rest may result in a slight right/left tear through paper.
after watching all of Average Jack Archery’s videos 5-10 times over this is exactly the channel i need. the perfect step up in depth of detail and information for somebody diving into bow tuning. you need more subscriber
As a fellow south paw, I'd love a dedicated video for lefties. I always get cross-eyed trying to figure out which things are the same and which are opposite compared to tuning a right handed bow. I may have to hit you up on Instagram. Great video as usual. 👊
Okay you said the arrow is supposed to be 90° from the string through the center of the berger hole... should it be the center of the arrow Shaft or the bottom of the arrow shaft should be going through the center of the berger hole
Man i been fighting with a tail high tear with my hoyt helix no matter how much i moved arrow rest. Only way i found to fix it was slowing down top cam about 3/16 from stop. I squared my nock point at bottom half of arrow through burger hole thinking i could adjust rest on these new strings to give alittle more clearance for arrow rest. You talking about where d loop made me start thinking that little bit higher might be my problem.
Easiest way i found to make sure my arrow is 90 degrees from the string thru berger hole is to put my bow in my press and hang my arrow from it until it's going thru the berger hole, fool proof method... good video
Have you ever seen the cables not exactly matching through the holes on the Mathews cams, they can be close, but when you check timing on draw board they are perfect ?
I have this on my mathews vxr 31.5. At rest the cables are through the cam timing holes but off just a hair when comparing the two. On the draw board the cams are in sync as the stops hit the cables at the same time. I also noticed my ata is slightly over 31.5" by about 1/32" and draw weight with 70lb mods is 68.9 lbs. Not sure if this could be better but I'll check it through paper again.
I have never really been able to get a proper bullet hole through paper. I make sure my timing is correct, arrow going through the Berger hole rest in the middle of my window. Shoot through paper and get it as close as I can, Then I shoot 5 and 50 yds a la John Dudley. When left and right are correct I then group tune to narrow the vertical size of the group. I don't torque tune, I don't find it useful, but that is me, it works for Paige Pearce. I shoot Field and Target archery from 30ft up to 99 yds. Tuning is so archer specific that no one method will work for everyone.
Wouldn’t it be easier to solve a spine issue with adding or subtracting a few lbs out of the draw weight instead of buying all new arrows? Really curious as to why it is almost never recommended to change draw weight at all, especially since it’s free.
I hear you. If you're already at peak weight though you can't really add more without over rotating the cams which also increases your draw length a little. And you don't necessarily have to buy new arrows. You can add or subtract point weight or cut the arrows down. But yeah if you're underspined you can try dropping your weigjt a few pounds to see if it helps
dude, thank you so much. Been fighting my powermax on a tail high and the only way I can get it to throw a bullet hole/clean bareshaft is to advance the bottom cam or set the nock point significantly low. Glad I’m not going crazy!!
😂😂😂 sounds like I need a new bow, I have the power max and have the 1 tail high tear...the horizontal is dead on, but she's tailing high. Thru a whisker biscuit 300 spine arrows 29.5 inches long about same for draw length. Contemplating moving the d loop a bit...
Whisker biscuits will almost always throw a tail high tear. Not much you can do with them when it comes to tuning. A good drop away rest will help a lot with accuracy
So I’ve timed my cams dead on and set my hamskea trinity so my arrow is going through the center of the Berger hole and set my nock point 90 degrees to my rest and I’m still getting a bad nock low tear. Moving my rest doesn’t seem to improve it. What else should I try? Shooting a Mathew’s V3X 33.
Glad to see a new video!! I shoot a carbon icon and it doesn't have yokes or tophats. I can't find ANY info on timing it or adjusting for horizontal tear. My rest is pushed so far out that it's embarrassing. Any help would be great
I never shoot trough paper.. I dont care about paper tune.. Just walk back and that's it.. Never problem.. People go crazy with paper tune.. Buying another rest etc... I don't care how arrow fly few yards after shot.
I have an SR6 that would NOT tune with a Hamskea rest set on centershot, it was indeed driving me nuts! Tried everything from changing the angle of the drop away cord to changing spring (both springs, external and internal) tensions... ripped the rest off threw on a Trophy Taker Pro set again on centershot and it was immediately shooting bullet holes... called Hamskea they said try all this and that, I explained I did, several times actually because I've never had such an issue tuning a bow, they were basically speechless. The rest is now collecting dust.... I did not and refused to move the rest off centershot, just me
Could you comment on what is "too much cam lean"....I always place bare shaft on cam and then look at where is crosses string....but would love to hear what reference point would be to much....say on a hoyt while yoke tuning
Lost most hunters on the vertical stuff to much 1/2 twist & turns to have to remember . But horizontal info was a home run . So helpful so right on . Thanks
Every mathews I've owned has a low tear and I've owned a bunch of them. I have a V3 27 right now and it's giving me fits with a low tear. Specs are 28/60 shooting a 340 easton da torch. I also have some 300 rip tko elites and they are much better but still not perfect. Have any ideas?
Do you ever build up grip with sugru to take tear out?(left tear on victory 37) already shimmed left,moved rest,adjusted cable slide, new cams,new limbs. Can get bullet( bareshaft) with my other bows.
Hey brother, I got my sr6 shooting nice and strait. But my arrows are sticking in target crooked! I bumped my rest a tiny bit seemed to help.. But still there.. There sticking in with tip to the right and ass end of arrow off to left. . My centershot however looks nice and very close on the sr6 but its only like 5/8of inch over from riser.? Please help . Also I'm getting clearance issues over bottom right fletch.. It's hitting riser.
You're rest is way too far inside of center shot if you're getting vane contact. You shouldn't need to move the rest to get that bow to shoot a bullet hole through paper.
Thanks for the info in this one. If I added one full twist to bottom cam to bring top cam into timing, and they’re hitting very very close the same time, do I also need to add a twist to the bowstring?
The cables and bowstring oppose each other by pulling the cam in different directions. So, if your cam timing is late on one side (there's a gap between the stop and the cable/limb on that side while the other side already touches), either relax your cable (untwist) on the late side so the cable will oppose the bowstring less and let the cam rotate further, or twist the cable on the early side so it will oppose the bowstring more and retard the rotation of that cam a bit. That's a mouthful. If you don't get it with the first reading, read it again.
I sent you a DM on Instagram about how my broadheads are hitting center but my field points are hitting right. My arrow spine is good but they are flying tail left and they hit further right at longer yardages. Any thoughts on moving my rest? Thanks!
If it’s just 2-4 inches you need to bump your rest slightly to the right. This is going to cause your field points to hit slightly to the right of where you’re aiming, but should bring your broad heads to the left. Once their impacting in the same place just move your sight until they’re both in the middle
Love your videos. But moving the rest in the same direction as the tail of the arrow, or the rest in the same direction seems backwards to me when I look at the mechanics of it. BowTech says to move the cam/string, on my BT Mag in the opposite direction of the tail of the arrow to get the string behind the point of the arrow. I know you do this for a living, and I'm not try to make anyone mad. But I've shot a bow for 30+yrs. and have done it the opposite of what your saying with great results. I'm curious as to what I'm not understanding or why it seems backwards to me.
If you lean the cam in the direction of the tear, it leverages the string back the opposite direction when firing. We fix bow techs tuning jobs all the time lol
You don't move the rest in the same direction of the tear. Ifnits tail right you would move the rest to the left. But geneally we leave the rest centered and yoke tune or use the cam shims
I'm glad you mentioned the Powermax again. I'd decided to live with it's severe nock high tear until shops open up again and I can get something else. I can't believe Hoyt released a bow with such a major design flaw.
Once again, another great video. You indicated that cam timing is paramount, but you didn't advise on how to adjust it. I believe you shorten the cable to close the timing, but not 100% sure. Also, bullet holes through paper is just a starting point, correct? Walk back tuning your fixed blade broadheads with field points require slight rest adjustments, if I'm not mistaken. Adjusting the rest may result in a slight right/left tear through paper.
after watching all of Average Jack Archery’s videos 5-10 times over this is exactly the channel i need. the perfect step up in depth of detail and information for somebody diving into bow tuning. you need more subscriber
As a fellow south paw, I'd love a dedicated video for lefties. I always get cross-eyed trying to figure out which things are the same and which are opposite compared to tuning a right handed bow. I may have to hit you up on Instagram. Great video as usual. 👊
We must unite!!
Same!
Okay you said the arrow is supposed to be 90° from the string through the center of the berger hole... should it be the center of the arrow Shaft or the bottom of the arrow shaft should be going through the center of the berger hole
The middle of the shaft. Foesnt have to be exact, just eyeball it.
Man i been fighting with a tail high tear with my hoyt helix no matter how much i moved arrow rest. Only way i found to fix it was slowing down top cam about 3/16 from stop. I squared my nock point at bottom half of arrow through burger hole thinking i could adjust rest on these new strings to give alittle more clearance for arrow rest. You talking about where d loop made me start thinking that little bit higher might be my problem.
Easiest way i found to make sure my arrow is 90 degrees from the string thru berger hole is to put my bow in my press and hang my arrow from it until it's going thru the berger hole, fool proof method... good video
Ahh, the plumb bob method. Works well but then you can’t sell 60 dollar plastic single bubble line levels.
Have you ever seen the cables not exactly matching through the holes on the Mathews cams, they can be close, but when you check timing on draw board they are perfect ?
I have this on my mathews vxr 31.5. At rest the cables are through the cam timing holes but off just a hair when comparing the two. On the draw board the cams are in sync as the stops hit the cables at the same time. I also noticed my ata is slightly over 31.5" by about 1/32" and draw weight with 70lb mods is 68.9 lbs. Not sure if this could be better but I'll check it through paper again.
I have never really been able to get a proper bullet hole through paper. I make sure my timing is correct, arrow going through the Berger hole rest in the middle of my window. Shoot through paper and get it as close as I can, Then I shoot 5 and 50 yds a la John Dudley. When left and right are correct I then group tune to narrow the vertical size of the group. I don't torque tune, I don't find it useful, but that is me, it works for Paige Pearce. I shoot Field and Target archery from 30ft up to 99 yds. Tuning is so archer specific that no one method will work for everyone.
Wouldn’t it be easier to solve a spine issue with adding or subtracting a few lbs out of the draw weight instead of buying all new arrows? Really curious as to why it is almost never recommended to change draw weight at all, especially since it’s free.
I hear you. If you're already at peak weight though you can't really add more without over rotating the cams which also increases your draw length a little. And you don't necessarily have to buy new arrows. You can add or subtract point weight or cut the arrows down. But yeah if you're underspined you can try dropping your weigjt a few pounds to see if it helps
Thanks for the reply!
Great vid and tons of really helpful information Kellen, thank you. I'm astonished at how much you know about tuning bows! Just wow.
dude, thank you so much. Been fighting my powermax on a tail high and the only way I can get it to throw a bullet hole/clean bareshaft is to advance the bottom cam or set the nock point significantly low. Glad I’m not going crazy!!
Dude been craving for a new video on this. I've about worn the old video out.
@Benedict Kabir yep you can watch your mom there.
@Colby Maddox yep you can watch your mom there
Very good vid. Spine is so important, and how I figured out I needed to stiffen up my arrows when I couldn’t correct a left nock tear
😂😂😂 sounds like I need a new bow, I have the power max and have the 1 tail high tear...the horizontal is dead on, but she's tailing high. Thru a whisker biscuit 300 spine arrows 29.5 inches long about same for draw length. Contemplating moving the d loop a bit...
Whisker biscuits will almost always throw a tail high tear. Not much you can do with them when it comes to tuning. A good drop away rest will help a lot with accuracy
So I’ve timed my cams dead on and set my hamskea trinity so my arrow is going through the center of the Berger hole and set my nock point 90 degrees to my rest and I’m still getting a bad nock low tear. Moving my rest doesn’t seem to improve it. What else should I try? Shooting a Mathew’s V3X 33.
Try raising your nock point a little bit
Do you think Matthew's will come out with a 33inch vxr
Glad to see a new video!! I shoot a carbon icon and it doesn't have yokes or tophats. I can't find ANY info on timing it or adjusting for horizontal tear. My rest is pushed so far out that it's embarrassing. Any help would be great
I'm trying to help a friend with a similar bow. Did you find a solution for your problem? If so, would you please share it? Thank you in advance.
Im dealing with a hoyt torrex. If that helps at all
I never shoot trough paper.. I dont care about paper tune.. Just walk back and that's it.. Never problem.. People go crazy with paper tune.. Buying another rest etc... I don't care how arrow fly few yards after shot.
Great video. Keep them coming.
I have an SR6 that would NOT tune with a Hamskea rest set on centershot, it was indeed driving me nuts! Tried everything from changing the angle of the drop away cord to changing spring (both springs, external and internal) tensions... ripped the rest off threw on a Trophy Taker Pro set again on centershot and it was immediately shooting bullet holes... called Hamskea they said try all this and that, I explained I did, several times actually because I've never had such an issue tuning a bow, they were basically speechless. The rest is now collecting dust.... I did not and refused to move the rest off centershot, just me
Could you comment on what is "too much cam lean"....I always place bare shaft on cam and then look at where is crosses string....but would love to hear what reference point would be to much....say on a hoyt while yoke tuning
Lost most hunters on the vertical stuff to much 1/2 twist & turns to have to remember . But horizontal info was a home run . So helpful so right on . Thanks
I put my new gas ghost strings on timed it and got a perfect bullet hole on the first shot!! Gas ghost strings are bad ass Hoyt Axius alpha 27.5 70lbs
Thanks for tips
Can you make a video setting up cam timing, measuring ata and brace height, and draw weight for a mathews vxr?
Are you looking to have the center of the arrow shaft going through the center of the berger hole or the bottom of the arrow shaft?
Every mathews I've owned has a low tear and I've owned a bunch of them. I have a V3 27 right now and it's giving me fits with a low tear. Specs are 28/60 shooting a 340 easton da torch. I also have some 300 rip tko elites and they are much better but still not perfect. Have any ideas?
If you are running any kind of cable driven rest you'll always get a nock low tear.
Do you ever build up grip with sugru to take tear out?(left tear on victory 37) already shimmed left,moved rest,adjusted cable slide, new cams,new limbs. Can get bullet( bareshaft) with my other bows.
I never have. Id just play with your hand position in the grip
Droppin some gold nuggets right here! Thanks for all of the info and being so precise!
We tried paper tuning my mates RX4 no matter what we tried we got tail low by about an inch or so. Any thoughts?
Welcome to the world of compound shooting. You're not alone. Paper tuning can be frustrating.
Hey brother, I got my sr6 shooting nice and strait. But my arrows are sticking in target crooked! I bumped my rest a tiny bit seemed to help.. But still there.. There sticking in with tip to the right and ass end of arrow off to left. . My centershot however looks nice and very close on the sr6 but its only like 5/8of inch over from riser.? Please help . Also I'm getting clearance issues over bottom right fletch.. It's hitting riser.
You're rest is way too far inside of center shot if you're getting vane contact. You shouldn't need to move the rest to get that bow to shoot a bullet hole through paper.
You use the yokes to tune, not the rest
Thanks for the info in this one. If I added one full twist to bottom cam to bring top cam into timing, and they’re hitting very very close the same time, do I also need to add a twist to the bowstring?
The cables and bowstring oppose each other by pulling the cam in different directions. So, if your cam timing is late on one side (there's a gap between the stop and the cable/limb on that side while the other side already touches), either relax your cable (untwist) on the late side so the cable will oppose the bowstring less and let the cam rotate further, or twist the cable on the early side so it will oppose the bowstring more and retard the rotation of that cam a bit.
That's a mouthful. If you don't get it with the first reading, read it again.
I like that Coors Light on the bookshelf
I sent you a DM on Instagram about how my broadheads are hitting center but my field points are hitting right. My arrow spine is good but they are flying tail left and they hit further right at longer yardages. Any thoughts on moving my rest? Thanks!
If it’s just 2-4 inches you need to bump your rest slightly to the right. This is going to cause your field points to hit slightly to the right of where you’re aiming, but should bring your broad heads to the left. Once their impacting in the same place just move your sight until they’re both in the middle
th-cam.com/video/cTI1TGFJYJM/w-d-xo.html
Is that a nose button on your bow? Do you like it?
Love your videos. But moving the rest in the same direction as the tail of the arrow, or the rest in the same direction seems backwards to me when I look at the mechanics of it. BowTech says to move the cam/string, on my BT Mag in the opposite direction of the tail of the arrow to get the string behind the point of the arrow. I know you do this for a living, and I'm not try to make anyone mad. But I've shot a bow for 30+yrs. and have done it the opposite of what your saying with great results. I'm curious as to what I'm not understanding or why it seems backwards to me.
If you lean the cam in the direction of the tear, it leverages the string back the opposite direction when firing. We fix bow techs tuning jobs all the time lol
You don't move the rest in the same direction of the tear. Ifnits tail right you would move the rest to the left. But geneally we leave the rest centered and yoke tune or use the cam shims
More gold..! Good stuff mate..!
great video, thank you
Thanks for all your help
Fantastic info for any archer!!
Awesome video
Very good info.
What are your thoughts on nock tuning arrows?
Certainly doesn't hurt. I just use a spine finder tool and mrk the stiff spine, which is essentially what nock tuning is doing.
Great content 👍
Your info is always spot-on! Thanks for providing tuning information we can trust.
Wouldn't inconsistent anchor pressure affect tear?
Yes of course. I talk about face pressure in one of my videos
@@InsideOutPrecision great videos BTW
@@InsideOutPrecision will be waiting for the V3 video
What’s the sight on your bow?
Looks like a axcel accutouch