The civil war will begin when the Lion wakes up, sees that Rob hasn't done shit about the Imperial Cult and broke up the Legions, and proceeds to clean house
Sad thing is, even though he is the Emperors son, they would just say so were the other traitor primarchs. So they just use that to spread the word that another Horus Heresy like plan is trying to be hatched by the Ultra Marines and Gulliman cause now that he he is the only "living" primarch, he wants to take it all for himself. Luckily the Ultra Marines have a extremely large legion, but how many of them have been raised to believe the Emperor is a god and how many would stand with their primarch over what they have been told their entire lives? Cause I doubt the whole legion would stand with Bobby G. Bob needs to be smart about this and play it smart, go with it for now and slowly make changes or have another one of his brothers come back to confirm what he is saying and back him up. I think Dorn would be the best choice for that outcome. Actually the greatest choice would be Sanginius but that's not likely. I don't believe he will be resurrected. Plus it would make the Lore of him knowing his own fate and bravely facing that fate and meeting death with courage completely pointless. We don't need to bring everyone back just cause. His death meant something let it stay that way. If people start coming back from death just because it will forever hurt storytelling when someone dies cause it won't mean anything when people think they will eventually come back in some contrived way. Sure bring back the missing Primarchs, the ones we know didn't die or atleast never confirmed dead. But the ones we know to be truly dead need to stay that way. It gives their brothers and the Emperor something to remember and fight for when they eventually fight the traitor daemon Primarchs. Giving them more strength cause they will know these traitors caused their loyal brothers deaths. But why wouldn't they believe him? Big E gave him his own sword, that should show them the Emperor has nothing but trust in his son and the rest should follow his decision. But these people are nothing but politicians, they don't care about this god nonsense, they just don't wanna lose their power. That's why they would fight.
@@thomasc.5219 Valories, the Captain General of the ten thousand has Guilliman's back, not even teh inquisition would dare to argue against the voice of the emperor.
As much as I want to see story advancement of Guilliman, He wouldn't risk a civil wars during Age of Dark Imperium, he need unity to keep Imperium from falling
I agree, he has the intelligence to know that it would be a disaster, but Ministorum believe in faith over anything, if they think the Emperor deems it so then those idiots do anything.
@@ChapterMasterValrak Fun fact there Valrak, we've seen faith be used before as a tool to serve a narcissistic tyrant before. People keep forgetting the reign of blood, remember "Those whom forget the past are doomed to repeat it".
@@ChapterMasterValrak They'd remain bed fellows until the rift was made less rift-y, and then they'd have the time and space to take a long hard look at each other and think "Erh...maybe not". And then the great Imperial divorce would take place...
It's no coincidence that Bobby G is the primarch of the Ultramarines, their symbol being that of omega which is the last character of a set. He seems to be set up as the one to break the cycle by definition.
If this happens..I think Gabriel Seth of the Flesh Tearers will be at the center of it. He already told Dante he sees the Primaris as replacement...not reinforcement! He even stated that if Guilliman would declare himself Regent..why not Emperor. To this day though I do not believe that we have ever learned what was said between Emps and Roboute before the start of the indomitus crusade
The Unforgiven are also on the verge of wiping out all of their Primaries recruits due to them learning about the Fallen, so I bet they would side with Seth. I doubt Gillian will declare himself Emperor unless THE Emperor dies.
@@robertnelson9599 isn't the Emperor dying though? I thought the mechanicus stated that the means to keep the golden throne operational was failing..either way..a second civil war would be devistating and really be a boon in Chaos favor for Abbadon to take advantage of. Hell...it be a great time for Al Thrakka to take Armageddon.. assuming he had a waaaaagh to do so
But that doesn't make any sense: Guilliman is the Emperor's son, so he's the son of their god and so he's divine... and they should think his word is Emperor's word... Also, what would the Ecclesiarchy do? Their weapons are made and delivered by Adeptus Mechanicus... And the Mechanicum HATES the Ecclesarchy because their are seen as heretics. And finally the headquarters of the Ecclesiarchy are on Terra, hostages of the Ten Thousands...
Yeah, just like Horus, eh? Horus was the Emperor's favourite son, yet see what happened. An analogy wouldn't be much of an issue for zealots such as the believers of Imperial Cult. Guilliman is no better choice for Adeptus Mechanicus. Both Imperial Cult and Imperial Creed oppose Cult Mechanicus in the end. It would be like pick your poison case for AM.
@@grolash6219 They are necessary for the whole Imperium. All I'm saying is that there is no difference between Imperial Truth and Imperial Creed to them. All that matters is which offers what in the end. They both tolerate the existence of a bunch of nerds that happen to revere one of the most dangerous and feared entities in the whole galaxy after all. Mars Schism didn't happen due to the Fabricator General converting to Chaos, but simply due to Horus offering them better conditions than what Big-E had on the table.
I didn't think about it till this video and yeah, very cool, some of the traitors could come back in to the fold and some of the loyal ones could turn. that would be one HELL of a twist 😁
The best "quote" For one of the books is: if The Emperor World come back and says im Not a god, They World burn hin For bring q Heretiks." i laugh so hard at that.
This has always been my thought when I theorize the return of Sanguinius. As he is the second most holy figure in the Imperial Cult and is essentially acts as the Christ figure of the religion, I feel he is to return to the world, not as the primarch he was, and not even as a mortal, but as a demigod and an avatar of the Emperor's will and increasingly divine presence in the world of 40k. As I feel a future storyline will be a crisis of succession for the "throne" of the Imperium. This will definitely happen regardless of which primarch comes back, it's something they will definitely have to tackle when the second loyalist arrives. If Sanguinius returns the way I think they would bring him back, he would act as a successor of the Emperor the God. As opposed to Guilliman, who is the successor of the Emperor the man.I think all this because they've obviously been hinting at an sitting on a lot of stuff about how the Emperor is becoming a god, and with more psykers popping up, an increase in the legion of the damned appearances, and the ever increasing role of the living saints, these threads all have to come together eventually. And with Sanguinius being treated as the holy martyr of the emperor and having his own holy holiday, plus the fact he is based off christ, really means that he fits the bill for creating the best figurehead to lead a religious revolution in the Imperium.
I'm pretty sure guilliaman will give sanguinious the title of emperor due to his respect of his brother, and the shame of not being with him during the siege of terra
I think Cawl is going to execute order 66 at some point. I mean, Primaris are everywhere and they are too goddamn perfect to be a part of this grimdark universe. There must be a twist somewhere.
The remaining Ministorum Priests will be hunted down and defeated! The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed. But, I assure you, my resolve has never been stronger! In order to ensure the security and continuing stability, the Imperium will be reorganized into the Second Galactic Empire! For a safe and secure society!
Another great topic here, The Realm of Ultramar breaking ties with the faith and the majority of the imperium. I mean look at it this way, to question Guilliman is to question the emperor himself.
Because maybe he foresaw everything and knew this would be like the Horus Heresy mk2. The worst thing that was going to happen in the last 10,000 yrs...
Good. You are right. Side with the one true heir to the corpse god's throne. Don't worry, if you must fight each other, know chaos will be there soon to save you at your weakest.
@@feihceht656 Hardly, they are the helpless puppets of the god of lies and are too arrogant to realise it. Death Guard are clearly the most reasonable, as they have a god that loves them, accept the reality of their situation and are actually happy (check out 'The Lords of Silence', it's fantastic).
You can have another “look the other way” event, like the Omnissiah of Mars. Guiliman cannot ignore the allies of the Imperium from the Warp like Saint Celestine and Legion of the Damed. There could be a compromised created between the two factions
Lorgar, the great plan is coming to a close, faith only invites the Great Four to ones doorstep. Roboute will without a doubt be swift to end such a challenge, again to challenge a son of the emperor is to challenge the Imperium itself. A better thing here as you should spell this, The Imperial Cult vs The Imperial Truth.
@@GentlemanBystander Yes.. Anyone would become a god if enough souls are sacrificed, which in this case has in fact happened daily. We have no clue what so ever if the Emperor is physically alive or psychological present at this stage. However it is constantly hinted at that the Emperor is truly the fifth Chaos God aka - God of Order.
The Obscurus sect of the Inquisition would like to have a word, Guilliman. The Angel of Malovion wants a word as well. About duty versus belief. I can't help but wonder how he feels about Saint Celestine, as well. 🤔
Problem with that is the Emperor would be reborn as an actual warp God due to many reasons. Not to mention Holy Terra and the surrounding will be destroyed
@@abelardoruiz5544 You mean just malcador (infact entirely malcador with its inception). Gulliman wasnt a part of the creation but he knew about it until he was forced into stasis. Lets say he did have some hands in it though, the inquisition back then is no where near the same as it is now. Infact, they're waging a covert war against gulliman because of his ideals of keeping history and the knowledge that comes with it intact. So i doubt heel have any hesitation if the time comes to break them down, and restructure them.
The guys who've handled galactic shipping since before the heresy and made sure all the primaris and their spangly new armor was delivered to their respective chapters even after the rift?
After reading the book Guilliman would probably be even more againts it, keep in mind, that book had been written by Lorgar. Remember Monarchia? Then betrayal at Calth? Guilliman knows better.
Here’s what I’ve always though: Space Marines and Primarchs were designed to fail. Their flaws are basically the same as the Thunder Warriors. They were made with the contract with Chaos, designed to do their job and then destroy themselves, through civil war and eventually, they will all turn to chaos at some point and be wiped out.
The Word Bearers still remember, Guilliman. Making people kneel again, are we? We are looking forward to receiving our new recruits and shall welcome them with open arms.
Frater Mathieu is essentially Erebus 2.0, so the end of Plague Wars was a real cliffhanger. If Guilliman declares the Emps divine, that would cause a huge rift between him and many SM chapters, as it would be seen as a powerplay to become the head of the Ecclesiarchy too. He would then have declared himself Emperor in all but name. Combine this with the return of say Lionel Johnson (or perhaps Sanguinius?) and the Imperium would likely be split in two.
Intense moment when he calls out Matthew and the ministorum as a whole by saying he is the last person alive who actually met and talked with his father and that they would assume to talk to him through them and not directly is actually a pretty fucking good point
Papa Smurf vs corrupt adeptus ministorum? You crazy! papa Smurf all the way. The Emperor is a man, the best of man! ALL HAIL THE MAN EMPEROR OF MANKIND!!!
The faith does have its uses that Roboute should use. The biggest hinderence to the Imperium right now is the Mechanicum's faith and their aversion to innovation and invention. The Ministorum does help make humans accept their shitty conditions which in the long run is what allows the Imperial war machine to work
The Imperium has had Civil Wars mutliple times and honestly makes sense for it to happen now. This feels a lot like the Age of Apostasy where the administratium and the ecclesiarchy fought and didn't get resolved until the Sisters of Battle realized that they were wrong fixed what they had done.
My head canon was the lion would return and side with the ministorum, he wants warriors and doesn't care if they worship the emperor as long as they will go and fight and die for him.
Why would they "fight" Guilliman? people are shouting left and right, yet Guilliman plays the "Game of thrones" kind of idealisme. He knows how to keep and fight for a Empire that once was, he's father's dream of a united imperium without faith. What's the point of fighting when that is the majority belief of the loyalist primarchs ?
Gruwski The Dogski Dorn would be against Guilliman for being a hypocrite with the codex and for tampering with the emperor’s finest work. The visions Dorn received from the emperor from the pain glove are probably making him a Zealot
@@danielroberts8049 Have you read the books? Guilliman hates and knows the error of the codex astartes.. What you're saying doesn't make any sense in regards of the character and his current views... Also Guilliman knew he had to split the legions in order to never see another horus heresy.. Do you even know how many Space Marines were under one legion? Try and think that power at the current timeline and what major damage that would do. Its why malcador worried about the UItramarines god damnit, they had the numbers and resources that the imperium didn't have.. Guilliman or any of his loyal brothers would never fight one another, rather they would speak eye to eye and settle things. Its like saying if Russ returned he would murder everyone because he most likely is a full on mutant Wolfen at this point. Don't be that guy whom wants to be a "loremaster" and see things for what they arn't.
@@GruwskiTheDogski then why did the Imperial Fists need splitting? They were s ,loyal the Emperor himself used them as a personal legion and guards for the Imperial Palace alongside the Custodes. They even have an age old tradition to settle disputes in the Arena Restricta, an Arena within the Phalanx in which brothers legs would be tied to concrete blicks and the two would fight it out to first blood.
Chapter Master Valrak have you not heard or listened to Our Martyred Lady? That story is essentially about the question of church, state and the ultimate prevention of the civil war with the Ministorum. Thus it has already been averted save for a few rogue Cardinals out there.
The thing is that the Emperor BECAME a God because of how the warp works regardless of what the "throne emperor" thinks is has been implied heavily (Star Child,Living Saints, ect). Given how the Warp effects "Real Space" it would not be far fetched that the Emperor could become a god or at least the entity known as the "God-Emperor" exists... Regardless of what Girlyman and the "physical" Emperor thinks the Emperor is a god maybe not by choice but is a god now. I hope that you understand what I'm rambling on about.
You mentioned the Eisenhorn novels, and that got me thinking about one of the short stories connected to it, ‘The Keeler Image.’ Basically, Eisenhorn is at an auction to snatch up a picture taken of Warmaster Horus by Euphrati Keeler back in the day, who winds up becoming an imperial saint I think. But the picture ends up in the hands of a heretic who found a message from Keeler herself, which basically confesses that she knows the Emperor wasn’t a god, but that there needed to be a god in order to stop Chaos, which is why she helped found the Ecclesiarchy. Basically I think Eisenhorn was afraid this heretic and his organization could potentially use such proof as ammunition to disrupt the faith of the Imperium and turn them against the Emperor, but in the end he managed to kill him and the picture and it’s hidden message got burned. So basically the problem with Guilliman turning people away from worshiping the Emperor is that may start worshipping something else, so he has to play the long game to gradually ween the people off religion to avoid them just going all out Chaos, which could potentially take thousands of years given the size of the galaxy.
Let's not forget that other Primarchs might return as well. I would think that Rogal Dorn might even come back. They claimed they had only a hand left of Rogal Dorn, now it's a full skeleton without its hands and his hands are elsewhere, or more interestingly according to 'official' reports he died sometime in M31 onboard the *Sword of Sacrilege* which was manufacured sometime in M36 which leaves a gap of about 5000 years between his 'death' and the fabrication of the Sword of Sacrilege. Perhaps Rogal Dorn was waylaid by tje Alpha Legion and reported as 'dead' by an Astartes that 'saw it with his own eyes'. Rogal Dorn was grounded due to warp storms in Flight of the Eisenstein so I see no reason why chaos wouldn't be able to trap him in a single system. How's this: Rogal Dorn makes his way back to Terra using just impulse power as Chaos prevents his ship from traveling through the warp safely? That would be epic. On top of that Rogal Dorn would have to prove he is who he says he is because they 'have his corpse'. Rogal Dorn and the Imperial Fists built the defenses of Terra and I think Rogal Dorn showing up to stand guard once more as a nice bow. I mean the only Primarch we know for sure is toast is Sanguinius. Even then I'm not so sure. GW could very well just wave their hand and say "Look! All the Primarchs are back now for no reason whatsoever!". Wouldn't be the first time they screwed with the lore *cough* Necrons *cough*
I think if a schism is going to happen between the faith and Guilliman, we may see not only the release of the new Sisters of Battle, but possibly Lorgar's return. He may try to sway and manipulate the faith due to him being the one to create it in the first place. If Lorgar does return, we may also see Corvus Corax hot on his heels since he's been chasing him through the warp after their last encounter.
There is another problem, the powers of the warp and chaos are defined by the power of belief and emotion. The fact that the people believe in the emperor so much and feel that he will save them so much, is the reason we have characters like Celestine, or that the "holy" miracles that actually occur, do occur. If anything big E has inadvertently become a God, because he is the manifestation of Hope as an ideology, he just resides in the materium instead of the warp. So the Imperium has itself caught in a catch 22, the upper levels of the Inquisiton and the Highlords are "from my recollection" entirely aware of how the Emperor wanted the empire run, but now they have to enforce the Imperial Creed because if it becomes publicly doubted, then will adversely affect the Emperors strength in the Warp. So they can't get rid of the religion, and instead double down on, which leads to risking fanaticism. Conscious acknowledgement of big E not being a god, would probably destroy the entire empire.
In a story I am writing, between speaking to Saint Celestine and Yvraine [and now hearing about his actually reading the Lecticio] Guilliman , among other reforms, works with the Ministorum and Inquisition to, essentially awaken the star-child. Knowing how the warp works, including how the eldar created their gods...and slannesh, he attempts reformations: -The Emperor is NOT a vengeful god, he is the Protector of Mankind [to squash Khorne cults based on Emps as war god] -The Empire is not great because of humans, humans are elevated when the Empire flourishes [to avoid Slanneshi-based cults of personality] -In times of greatest need, the Emperor's Guardian Angels will come, wreathed in flame, clad in black war plate, bolters screaming salvation [as an experiment to attempt to manifest the Legion of the Damned as the emperor's Daemons/Angels] -Those of purest faith and dedication to the Imperium, may upon their martyrdom in defense of the Imperium, receive the Emperor's Blessing and revive as living Saints [to attempt to create more Imperial Demon Princes like Celestine] Part of these reforms is the reinstating of all 20 legions, with Astartes from various Gene-lines, supported by complementary Regiments, Sororitas Orders, Titan Legions and Forge Worlds. Each Legion led by a war council of the highest ranked members of each department. The Ecclesiarchy [along with each Ordo Majoris of the Inquisition and the Mechanicus] gets its own dedicated legion tasked with going to every Imperial temple, updating thier Scriptures with the core tenants above, deleting any local beliefs that contradict them or can be used as cover for Chaos Cults, and recording for review and possible canonization any local beliefs that enhance the message. The warrior contingent is there to stamp out any rebellions that may ensue and to support the Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Malleus legions when Heretical cults are found, re-educating the populace and leaving a contingent upon pacification. This legion is the XVII, under the original moniker: Imperial Heralds. Made up primarily from Blood angel and Dark Angel Successors [Guilliman knows about the Fallen through Cypher and plants Unforgiven in Legions tasked with rooting out traitors and true heretics] and from the Black Templars. The Dark Angels [with help from Raven Guard and Carcharadons] also Rebuild the VIII Legion, dedicated to the Ordo Hereticus, the original purpose of the Night Lords, Known as the Dread Wing. Blood Angels and Space Wolves rebuild the XII War Hounds with the Minotaurs and Deathwatch as a base, dedicated to the Ordo Xenos, specifically the aliens that cannot be reasoned with and must be purged without mercy: Tyranids and Orks. Bobby G knows of the curses of the Blood angels and Space Wolves, giving them endless supplies of Zenos to slake the bloodlust of the Wulfen and Death Company. This also upholds the Emperor's promise to Russ to never send his Legion against other Astartes again. The last Ordo Legion is the XV Scholar Adepts, Ordo Malleus. Built from Exorcist, Grey Knight and Blood Raven stock, with oversight from Space Wolves [to provide redemption for Russ's folly] and White Scars [since Jagatai was Magnus' only true friend], they hunt daemons, protect the black ships of the Astra Telepathica and like the sons of Prospero did in the crusade, exchange Librarians with other legions to train them in approved for all arts and sreview and catalog the unique Chapter Disciplines. For the Curious, the Mechanicus gets the IV Scions of Iron, made from Silver Skulls, Imperial Fists, and Iron Hands successors. Tasked with defending, re-claiming and founding Forge Worlds and [with Inquisitorial oversight] finding archaeotech and xenotech to incorporate into common Imperial use. Yes Every "traitor" legion gets a Neo legion sent on eternal crusade based on Chapters that are purported to be their descendants and 2 loyalist legions that have either a link to the original legion or the task at hand. The loyalist legions are each tasked with defending a segmentum or region, in expansion of what the Ultramarines [still XII, but not led by Guilliman directly, he picks Cato] and his appointment of Dante as regeant of Imperium Nihilus [what the majority of the IX do since most of them are on or around Baal anyway].
10000 pyschkers fed to the Emperor every few days, the Emperor existing 10000 years at the psychic level in a corpse body, the Emperor keeping the Empire protected with all the chaos Gods opposing him, the Emperor freezes time to allow Jaq Draco and his party to personally visit him ... sounds pretty god like.
Just a thought, but you have the possibility of a fanatic attempt to prove the Emperors divinity by killing him. "See how my god cannot die! Oh... Bugger."
I had the exact same theory about a coming civil war between the imperial truth and the imperial creed. they could be building up to permanently (or at least for many years) split the imperium into two separate factions.
Ever since I began reading the horus heresy books I shifted my pov on 40k. It's less grimdark, more stupidobvious... I mean, sure, milk it for what it's worth, but at this point I read every statement towards the intelligence of these mutants in air quotes with sarcasm dripping from every syllable.
I think Guilliman will try to convince the Sisters of Battle to follow the Imperial Truth. If they no longer follow the Ministorum, then Guilliman can take them down without much violence.
And what about the millions of worlds, planetary governors, inquisitors, titan legions and imperial guard regiments that believe the Emperor is a God? The God-Emperor abides.
@@JohnBrowningsGhost The Titan Legions follow the Cult Mechanics, many high-ranking individuals like Inquisitors and Planetary Governors really only give the Imperial Cult lip-service, and the Imperium existed for 1,500 years before the Adeptus Ministorum was created.
I really hope it’s war. It would be awesome to see the Grey knights and Black Templar’s going against the Ultramarines, Fists and the rest of the sensible marines.
Eldar after mistakes We will live more careful lives and protect our kin. Tau after mistakes: We will help unite the galaxy for the better, and defend our charges. Humans after mistakes: HORUS HERESY 2: PURGING BOOGALOO
If i remember right the Eldar birthed a whole new chaos god from their mistake and caused their race too split into two different races. The Tau frequently mind control their people through pheremones and live in a heavily enforced caste society
@@guardianaerdan8588 humanity created none of the Chaos gods. All of the Middle ages wars deaths couldent even approach the number of deaths from a single border clash in 40k. There was more change in the Eldar during their reign then there was in the Renaissance. Anything humanity did was inconsequential to the Immaterium up to when they became a space faring race. The more likely to have caused the birth of the other gods would have been the Eldar, the Old ones, or the Necrons during their war in the heavens
@@jasonburke1671 From what I have seen, the 40k lore seems to at least imply that humanity, gave the forming chaos gods that final push to full self-awareness. Had they been formed during the War in Heaven, would there not be mention of the eldar gods, then viewed as servant weapons, battling these new beings? Or simply Necrons, Old Ones, Ctan, or the Eldar themselves taking notice of them?
@@guardianaerdan8588 the War in Heaven is what Cannonically fucked up what the old ones knew at the time as the "Realm of Souls", turning it into the warp we know today. Since many of the Old Ones died during the War in the Heavens there were not many left to notice. The Eldar DID notice these warp gods, but until the Eye of Terror opened up from the Eldars fuck up, the Chaos gods didint have any say to access the Material plane en masse. They had to rely on Psykers becoming possessed by their daemons as Necrons had no soul and Orks arent connected to the Immaterium
Guilliman is too wise and practical to start a war with the Ministorum. If Chaos and all the threats to mankind were eliminated then he would probably do it then.
@@AuramiteEX Either way, Chaos is something that can act against what you do to it. Such as containment: the more you try to contain, the more will unleash when the containment is broken
Now, you would think they'd listen to Papa Smurf, after all, he actually DID know and hang out with Daddy Emps. Oh...this is the only time you will ever see me rooting for Papa Smurf & his Smurf army (blueberry bunch) :P
@@commissarlugh1040 I would prefer a Tau expansion book or a closure to Ghazskull's Tyranid campaign. I'm getting burned out on Imperium stories that go nowhere. Cypher's story being the biggest offender.
The whole reason that the Emperor isn't a central figure in the current narrative is for just that reason, to prevent the story becoming All Emperor, All the Time.
I think there will be civil war as GW IP is closely based on Roman history. See the rise of two Emperors, one in the eastern fringes and one in the western fringes. This will also have the lovely side effect of allowing marine vs marine wars I.e. 30k style games but in the 40k universe.
Well, I'm always going side with the Blood Angel's in every instance. But this is a truly tricky scenario. The Ministorum helped bring Daddy McBlueberry back. Also the Adepta Sororitas would be a dangerous for to fight, but with the revelation on the Our Martyred Lady audiobook the Decree Passive is no more and atm there is no leader of the Ecclesiarchy. Also Cannoness Sabrina told Celestine "beware of preachers". So I guess you can say that the Sisters could side with Guilliman if Celestine so ordered it if priests were undermining Imperial efforts to stop Chaos.
Im warning you, If you force me to choose I will stand with my Sisters. I'll just make a Sister convent that loosens up on the fanaticism to follow the Emperors true will.
the return of power over 500 worlds is very similar to the actions of Ivan the Terrible in the fight against the boyars traitors 1 he first established Oprichnina - essentially a royal domain. or imperial provinces of Octavian. A powerful economic base in personal subordination 2 and after this is the creation of personally loyal troops 3 and then Order 66
@@ChapterMasterValrak Truthfully, if the Templars fought against Guilliman, the only person able to pull them onto Guilliman's side would likely have to be Rogal Dorn or the Emperor, himself.
See this is the major problem with reintroducing the Primarch’s (at least the loyalist ones) their worldview and timeline is so far in the past the the current day Imperium is almost as alien to them as the dark age of strife would have been. Their return almost forces the entire setting to an almost pre/mid/just post-heresy setting, where half the things that made that later setting don’t apply, or at least annoy the most powerful protagonists in the setting. It has irrevocably changed the setting and the Imperium as legends reawaken and walk the stars once more. The Imperium over time will be moulded more into the Emperor’s dream and vision than at anytime since the Crusade, and the Imperium of the 41st millennium with it’s darkness and misunderstanding of technology and superstition will fade. The very presence of a reawakened Guilliman leads to an age of hope and light, not darkness and fear. As one of his one Chapter’s banner read “our presence remakes the past”
![TERMINATORS OF THE IMPERIUM - Tactical Dreadnought Armour | WARHAMMER 40,000 [LoreGear]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cHtm4RJooLM/mqdefault.jpg)
If it came to Civil War, would you stand with Roboute or the Adeptus Ministorum?
My black templars would stand with the blue man group
Roboute!
only with Lion
RG all the way.
The Elefsinian hoplitic regiments will stand for the Emperor's dream and for Guilliman :)
Civil war breaks out until a new primarch shows up to get everybody to get along...
*vulkan lives stomping noises in the distance*
STOMP! STOMP!
The only primarch i would care for if he came back is Konrad Curze or Angron
The civil war will begin when the Lion wakes up, sees that Rob hasn't done shit about the Imperial Cult and broke up the Legions, and proceeds to clean house
HA-HA-HA! Indeed my battle brotha! Our big and black papa will give a lots of hugs! The power of Friendship will save humanity from the warp devils!
I would really like to see vulkan return would he support papa smurf
Valrak: Primaris are the good guys, we're here to help.
Me: Suspicious Dark Angels noises.
not to worry, in Rock there are ways to make them......... comfortable
thats some serious "the pot calling the kettle black" there
To be fair, 'Suspicious Dark Angels noises' is pretty much their standard response, yes?
@@ukaszbiaek6641 Sammael: Hey Azreal can I reopen that bar in the basement that our Primarch was so fond of.
Dark angels: *exist*
Every other Astartes chapter: *suspicious Astartes noises*
New drinking game, drink for every time something terrible has been caused by Lorgar.
@@damankharoud5034 Can we have a drinking game on how many times Magnus screwed something up?
Not a single drink was taken because without him 40k would be boring, so like Magnus Lorgar did nothing wrong.
+@@AloneD.Walker Stahp it u heretic
@@omarabe26 heed the word of Lorgar for you know he is right. (take whatever publication you want.)
+@@AloneD.Walker lol no.
"The Emperor gave me this task to show you the light"
"THE EMPEROR IS MY FATHER! WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT HIM COMPARED TO ME?"
Sad thing is, even though he is the Emperors son, they would just say so were the other traitor primarchs. So they just use that to spread the word that another Horus Heresy like plan is trying to be hatched by the Ultra Marines and Gulliman cause now that he he is the only "living" primarch, he wants to take it all for himself. Luckily the Ultra Marines have a extremely large legion, but how many of them have been raised to believe the Emperor is a god and how many would stand with their primarch over what they have been told their entire lives? Cause I doubt the whole legion would stand with Bobby G. Bob needs to be smart about this and play it smart, go with it for now and slowly make changes or have another one of his brothers come back to confirm what he is saying and back him up. I think Dorn would be the best choice for that outcome. Actually the greatest choice would be Sanginius but that's not likely. I don't believe he will be resurrected. Plus it would make the Lore of him knowing his own fate and bravely facing that fate and meeting death with courage completely pointless. We don't need to bring everyone back just cause. His death meant something let it stay that way. If people start coming back from death just because it will forever hurt storytelling when someone dies cause it won't mean anything when people think they will eventually come back in some contrived way. Sure bring back the missing Primarchs, the ones we know didn't die or atleast never confirmed dead. But the ones we know to be truly dead need to stay that way. It gives their brothers and the Emperor something to remember and fight for when they eventually fight the traitor daemon Primarchs. Giving them more strength cause they will know these traitors caused their loyal brothers deaths.
But why wouldn't they believe him? Big E gave him his own sword, that should show them the Emperor has nothing but trust in his son and the rest should follow his decision. But these people are nothing but politicians, they don't care about this god nonsense, they just don't wanna lose their power. That's why they would fight.
@@thomasc.5219 Valories, the Captain General of the ten thousand has Guilliman's back, not even teh inquisition would dare to argue against the voice of the emperor.
As much as I want to see story advancement of Guilliman, He wouldn't risk a civil wars during Age of Dark Imperium, he need unity to keep Imperium from falling
Yes, that is the only reason he has not already abolished the Ministorum.
I agree, he has the intelligence to know that it would be a disaster, but Ministorum believe in faith over anything, if they think the Emperor deems it so then those idiots do anything.
@@ChapterMasterValrak Fun fact there Valrak, we've seen faith be used before as a tool to serve a narcissistic tyrant before.
People keep forgetting the reign of blood, remember "Those whom forget the past are doomed to repeat it".
@@ChapterMasterValrak They'd remain bed fellows until the rift was made less rift-y, and then they'd have the time and space to take a long hard look at each other and think "Erh...maybe not". And then the great Imperial divorce would take place...
UNITY!
"God-Emperor? Calling him a god is how all this mess started"
- Bjorn The Fell-handed, Venerable Dreadnought of the Space Wolves
Yup. And the retarded doggies pretty much drove the nails into the coffin...
CIVIL WAR?! Blood Ravens are present to help secure all relics and anything of value! *grins in the dark
Blood Ravens! Secure the Storage Facilities and Vaults! EMPRAH GIFTED US!
ASTARTES 4 IS OUT REJOICE FOR THE GOD EMPEROR SHINES ON US THIS DAY!
You know it’s truly grimdark if the ultrasmurf’s are the competent ones.
Big bobby G was always one of the sensible primarchs. Not counting that whole “imperium 2” thing.
@@calthepal312 Imperium 2: Electric Boogaloo
@@calthepal312 to be fair it wasn't a bad idea assuming the emperor did die and the empire fell
It's no coincidence that Bobby G is the primarch of the Ultramarines, their symbol being that of omega which is the last character of a set.
He seems to be set up as the one to break the cycle by definition.
Omegon scowls at you...
@@lookbach What if Guilliman IS Omegon?
@@HubiKoshi that would be some sweet vengeance considering that..
We are all Alpharious.
I'm with Guilliman here. He's gotta have a massive headache dealing with the nonsense Lorgar left behind.
If this happens..I think Gabriel Seth of the Flesh Tearers will be at the center of it. He already told Dante he sees the Primaris as replacement...not reinforcement! He even stated that if Guilliman would declare himself Regent..why not Emperor.
To this day though I do not believe that we have ever learned what was said between Emps and Roboute before the start of the indomitus crusade
The Unforgiven are also on the verge of wiping out all of their Primaries recruits due to them learning about the Fallen, so I bet they would side with Seth. I doubt Gillian will declare himself Emperor unless THE Emperor dies.
@@robertnelson9599 isn't the Emperor dying though? I thought the mechanicus stated that the means to keep the golden throne operational was failing..either way..a second civil war would be devistating and really be a boon in Chaos favor for Abbadon to take advantage of. Hell...it be a great time for Al Thrakka to take Armageddon.. assuming he had a waaaaagh to do so
Seth is the drunk Uncle at a wedding.
@@kelman727 seth is the only sane chapter master left.
@@commissarlugh1040 Right after he finishes chugging tankards of human blood, he likes to set up political debates and logical, sane discussion.
This is where the fun begins.
I side with Roboute Guilliman!
Yessssss. Yesssssss. Side witb Guiliman. Fight each other. Chaos watches and waits!
Maybe Gabriel Seth could have saw this coming as well....
Sets is a borderline Heretic, one comment away from censure.
No one in the Ecclesiarchy has the plot armor to go against Robutt.
But that doesn't make any sense: Guilliman is the Emperor's son, so he's the son of their god and so he's divine... and they should think his word is Emperor's word...
Also, what would the Ecclesiarchy do? Their weapons are made and delivered by Adeptus Mechanicus... And the Mechanicum HATES the Ecclesarchy because their are seen as heretics. And finally the headquarters of the Ecclesiarchy are on Terra, hostages of the Ten Thousands...
Yeah, just like Horus, eh? Horus was the Emperor's favourite son, yet see what happened. An analogy wouldn't be much of an issue for zealots such as the believers of Imperial Cult. Guilliman is no better choice for Adeptus Mechanicus. Both Imperial Cult and Imperial Creed oppose Cult Mechanicus in the end. It would be like pick your poison case for AM.
@@Azoth86730 But the Emperor always allowed the Cult Mechanicus, while Imperial Cult don't really...
@@grolash6219 Cult Mechanicus was allowed out of pure necessity and Cawl's intentions are still unclear.
@@Azoth86730 They're still necessary, and much more compliants than Ecclesiarchy
@@grolash6219 They are necessary for the whole Imperium. All I'm saying is that there is no difference between Imperial Truth and Imperial Creed to them. All that matters is which offers what in the end. They both tolerate the existence of a bunch of nerds that happen to revere one of the most dangerous and feared entities in the whole galaxy after all. Mars Schism didn't happen due to the Fabricator General converting to Chaos, but simply due to Horus offering them better conditions than what Big-E had on the table.
Heresy 2.0 is really the only obvious next step. it's cool right now but just wait till the more "outspoken" Primarchs return.
I didn't think about it till this video and yeah, very cool, some of the traitors could come back in to the fold and some of the loyal ones could turn. that would be one HELL of a twist 😁
Captain Guiliman: Civil War
The best "quote" For one of the books is: if The Emperor World come back and says im Not a god, They World burn hin For bring q Heretiks." i laugh so hard at that.
andorro The Insane can you fix your comment plz
r/ihadastroke
@@mikilgene3851 I wish he World fix it
Anyone care to translate?
@@hairypancake
I think he said: "15 minutes or more could save you 15% on car insurance." Or something along those lines.
This has always been my thought when I theorize the return of Sanguinius. As he is the second most holy figure in the Imperial Cult and is essentially acts as the Christ figure of the religion, I feel he is to return to the world, not as the primarch he was, and not even as a mortal, but as a demigod and an avatar of the Emperor's will and increasingly divine presence in the world of 40k. As I feel a future storyline will be a crisis of succession for the "throne" of the Imperium. This will definitely happen regardless of which primarch comes back, it's something they will definitely have to tackle when the second loyalist arrives. If Sanguinius returns the way I think they would bring him back, he would act as a successor of the Emperor the God. As opposed to Guilliman, who is the successor of the Emperor the man.I think all this because they've obviously been hinting at an sitting on a lot of stuff about how the Emperor is becoming a god, and with more psykers popping up, an increase in the legion of the damned appearances, and the ever increasing role of the living saints, these threads all have to come together eventually. And with Sanguinius being treated as the holy martyr of the emperor and having his own holy holiday, plus the fact he is based off christ, really means that he fits the bill for creating the best figurehead to lead a religious revolution in the Imperium.
I'm pretty sure guilliaman will give sanguinious the title of emperor due to his respect of his brother, and the shame of not being with him during the siege of terra
Considering how stretched thin the Imperium is a civil war might be the final nail in the coffin. Why has Tzheench not done this already?
Because that would require intelligence, something a majority of the Imperium has none of
I think Cawl is going to execute order 66 at some point.
I mean, Primaris are everywhere and they are too goddamn perfect to be a part of this grimdark universe. There must be a twist somewhere.
holy shit never even thought of that. it's obvious that Heresy 2.0 is coming but never thought of it like that.
The remaining Ministorum Priests will be hunted down and defeated! The attempt on my life has left me scarred and deformed. But, I assure you, my resolve has never been stronger! In order to ensure the security and continuing stability, the Imperium will be reorganized into the Second Galactic Empire! For a safe and secure society!
My guess is that the Primaris and old marines may fight to see which one is truly better, but the conflicts are kept within their individual chapters.
Be careful though- "not grimdark enough" can be a slippery slope that leads to bad story telling for the sake of grim dark
I think it might be in order 66 of the old Marines just like the thunder Warriors
Another great topic here, The Realm of Ultramar breaking ties with the faith and the majority of the imperium.
I mean look at it this way, to question Guilliman is to question the emperor himself.
Guys don't worry. Cypher will return and save the day 😁
Imagine this kicking off and The Emperor instantly heals and walks from the Golden Throne to put people in their place...
Why would he not have done that during the Age of Apostasy?
Because maybe he foresaw everything and knew this would be like the Horus Heresy mk2. The worst thing that was going to happen in the last 10,000 yrs...
Emperor in his head : Ah shit, here we go again...
All hail the Man-Emperor of Mankind.
And glory to his mancclesiarchs
Thanks be to the MAN-EMPEROR of MANKIND
I side with Guilliman.
Good. You are right. Side with the one true heir to the corpse god's throne. Don't worry, if you must fight each other, know chaos will be there soon to save you at your weakest.
if Gulliman ever converted to the faith of the Emperor than all would be truly lost.
as in, I would totally ditch and go join the thousand sons
Just don't mention You know Who around Magnus
then you are already lost heretic if your loyalty is so fickle
@@feihceht656 Hardly, they are the helpless puppets of the god of lies and are too arrogant to realise it. Death Guard are clearly the most reasonable, as they have a god that loves them, accept the reality of their situation and are actually happy (check out 'The Lords of Silence', it's fantastic).
You can have another “look the other way” event, like the Omnissiah of Mars. Guiliman cannot ignore the allies of the Imperium from the Warp like Saint Celestine and Legion of the Damed. There could be a compromised created between the two factions
Lorgar, the great plan is coming to a close, faith only invites the Great Four to ones doorstep.
Roboute will without a doubt be swift to end such a challenge, again to challenge a son of the emperor is to challenge the Imperium itself.
A better thing here as you should spell this, The Imperial Cult vs The Imperial Truth.
@@GentlemanBystander Yes.. Anyone would become a god if enough souls are sacrificed, which in this case has in fact happened daily.
We have no clue what so ever if the Emperor is physically alive or psychological present at this stage.
However it is constantly hinted at that the Emperor is truly the fifth Chaos God aka - God of Order.
Lord Valrak, ASTARTES CHAPTER FOUR IS HERE!!!
Just tell Dark Angels that the ministorum is working with a Fallen, and there will be no civil war.
The Obscurus sect of the Inquisition would like to have a word, Guilliman.
The Angel of Malovion wants a word as well. About duty versus belief.
I can't help but wonder how he feels about Saint Celestine, as well. 🤔
I was thinking the same thing. And if Bobby G condones it, it would be such a huge slap for poor Lorgar
Robert pulls the plug on the emp. Emp comes back. fastest way to end this civil war basically before it starts.
Problem with that is the Emperor would be reborn as an actual warp God due to many reasons. Not to mention Holy Terra and the surrounding will be destroyed
First! But if theres any civil war i want, its my good primarch bois against the stupidity of the inquisition and Administoroum
Mnnn... Guilliman an Marlcator were the creators of the Inquisition...
@@abelardoruiz5544 You mean just malcador (infact entirely malcador with its inception). Gulliman wasnt a part of the creation but he knew about it until he was forced into stasis. Lets say he did have some hands in it though, the inquisition back then is no where near the same as it is now. Infact, they're waging a covert war against gulliman because of his ideals of keeping history and the knowledge that comes with it intact. So i doubt heel have any hesitation if the time comes to break them down, and restructure them.
The guys who've handled galactic shipping since before the heresy and made sure all the primaris and their spangly new armor was delivered to their respective chapters even after the rift?
@@strikewind406 🤔 Alpharius says what?
After reading the book Guilliman would probably be even more againts it, keep in mind, that book had been written by Lorgar.
Remember Monarchia? Then betrayal at Calth? Guilliman knows better.
But on the other hand, I don't think Guilliman would intentionally try to spark a civil war, with the current state of the Imperium.
Here’s what I’ve always though: Space Marines and Primarchs were designed to fail. Their flaws are basically the same as the Thunder Warriors. They were made with the contract with Chaos, designed to do their job and then destroy themselves, through civil war and eventually, they will all turn to chaos at some point and be wiped out.
The Word Bearers still remember, Guilliman. Making people kneel again, are we? We are looking forward to receiving our new recruits and shall welcome them with open arms.
As long as the Imperium stands, it will never fall under the Powers of chaos as History in 40k has repeated itself in all honesty.
Sounds like Heresy to me, EXECUTE THIS MAN!
Frater Mathieu is essentially Erebus 2.0, so the end of Plague Wars was a real cliffhanger.
If Guilliman declares the Emps divine, that would cause a huge rift between him and many SM chapters, as it would be seen as a powerplay to become the head of the Ecclesiarchy too. He would then have declared himself Emperor in all but name.
Combine this with the return of say Lionel Johnson (or perhaps Sanguinius?) and the Imperium would likely be split in two.
Intense moment when he calls out Matthew and the ministorum as a whole by saying he is the last person alive who actually met and talked with his father and that they would assume to talk to him through them and not directly is actually a pretty fucking good point
and lorgar is sat there watching it on tv in his little house in the eye of terror pissing himself, eating popcorn
Papa Smurf vs corrupt adeptus ministorum?
You crazy! papa Smurf all the way.
The Emperor is a man, the best of man!
ALL HAIL THE MAN EMPEROR OF MANKIND!!!
DeezNutz Trump Praise be to The Man Emperor Of Mankind!
@@swordsman1_messer praise to the man emperor of mankind
The Emperor is definitely more than a man. The mere faith in him can banish demons
The faith does have its uses that Roboute should use. The biggest hinderence to the Imperium right now is the Mechanicum's faith and their aversion to innovation and invention. The Ministorum does help make humans accept their shitty conditions which in the long run is what allows the Imperial war machine to work
The Imperium has had Civil Wars mutliple times and honestly makes sense for it to happen now. This feels a lot like the Age of Apostasy where the administratium and the ecclesiarchy fought and didn't get resolved until the Sisters of Battle realized that they were wrong fixed what they had done.
Karran Managetarius: I'd like to see your Adeptus Ministorum!
Chaos has to get primaris somehow, it's clearly a way for GW to fix the scale of spes mahrins
Roboute had Matthew shook when he checked in the end of plague wars.
*Another imperial civil war*
Gulliman: Aww sh*t, here we go again.
Been saying this since Guilliman returned but I envisioned Dorn heading the side to oppose Guilliman
My head canon was the lion would return and side with the ministorum, he wants warriors and doesn't care if they worship the emperor as long as they will go and fight and die for him.
Why would they "fight" Guilliman?
people are shouting left and right, yet Guilliman plays the "Game of thrones" kind of idealisme.
He knows how to keep and fight for a Empire that once was, he's father's dream of a united imperium without faith.
What's the point of fighting when that is the majority belief of the loyalist primarchs ?
Gruwski The Dogski Dorn would be against Guilliman for being a hypocrite with the codex and for tampering with the emperor’s finest work.
The visions Dorn received from the emperor from the pain glove are probably making him a Zealot
@@danielroberts8049 Have you read the books? Guilliman hates and knows the error of the codex astartes..
What you're saying doesn't make any sense in regards of the character and his current views...
Also Guilliman knew he had to split the legions in order to never see another horus heresy..
Do you even know how many Space Marines were under one legion?
Try and think that power at the current timeline and what major damage that would do.
Its why malcador worried about the UItramarines god damnit, they had the numbers and resources that the imperium didn't have..
Guilliman or any of his loyal brothers would never fight one another, rather they would speak eye to eye and settle things.
Its like saying if Russ returned he would murder everyone because he most likely is a full on mutant Wolfen at this point.
Don't be that guy whom wants to be a "loremaster" and see things for what they arn't.
@@GruwskiTheDogski then why did the Imperial Fists need splitting? They were s ,loyal the Emperor himself used them as a personal legion and guards for the Imperial Palace alongside the Custodes. They even have an age old tradition to settle disputes in the Arena Restricta, an Arena within the Phalanx in which brothers legs would be tied to concrete blicks and the two would fight it out to first blood.
Time for some Lion, c'mon GW, I know you want money
Jaekal 3 He shall awaken!!!
My favourite part of Guilliman’s rant is when he shouts at Mathieu that Konor was his true father not the Emperor.
Chapter Master Valrak have you not heard or listened to Our Martyred Lady?
That story is essentially about the question of church, state and the ultimate prevention of the civil war with the Ministorum.
Thus it has already been averted save for a few rogue Cardinals out there.
Vulkan needs to come back. If only to give his brother a hug again.
The thing is that the Emperor BECAME a God because of how the warp works regardless of what the "throne emperor" thinks is has been implied heavily (Star Child,Living Saints, ect).
Given how the Warp effects "Real Space" it would not be far fetched that the Emperor could become a god or at least the entity known as the "God-Emperor" exists...
Regardless of what Girlyman and the "physical" Emperor thinks the Emperor is a god maybe not by choice but is a god now.
I hope that you understand what I'm rambling on about.
You mentioned the Eisenhorn novels, and that got me thinking about one of the short stories connected to it, ‘The Keeler Image.’ Basically, Eisenhorn is at an auction to snatch up a picture taken of Warmaster Horus by Euphrati Keeler back in the day, who winds up becoming an imperial saint I think. But the picture ends up in the hands of a heretic who found a message from Keeler herself, which basically confesses that she knows the Emperor wasn’t a god, but that there needed to be a god in order to stop Chaos, which is why she helped found the Ecclesiarchy. Basically I think Eisenhorn was afraid this heretic and his organization could potentially use such proof as ammunition to disrupt the faith of the Imperium and turn them against the Emperor, but in the end he managed to kill him and the picture and it’s hidden message got burned. So basically the problem with Guilliman turning people away from worshiping the Emperor is that may start worshipping something else, so he has to play the long game to gradually ween the people off religion to avoid them just going all out Chaos, which could potentially take thousands of years given the size of the galaxy.
Let's not forget that other Primarchs might return as well. I would think that Rogal Dorn might even come back.
They claimed they had only a hand left of Rogal Dorn, now it's a full skeleton without its hands and his hands are elsewhere, or more interestingly according to 'official' reports he died sometime in M31 onboard the *Sword of Sacrilege* which was manufacured sometime in M36 which leaves a gap of about 5000 years between his 'death' and the fabrication of the Sword of Sacrilege.
Perhaps Rogal Dorn was waylaid by tje Alpha Legion and reported as 'dead' by an Astartes that 'saw it with his own eyes'. Rogal Dorn was grounded due to warp storms in Flight of the Eisenstein so I see no reason why chaos wouldn't be able to trap him in a single system.
How's this: Rogal Dorn makes his way back to Terra using just impulse power as Chaos prevents his ship from traveling through the warp safely? That would be epic. On top of that Rogal Dorn would have to prove he is who he says he is because they 'have his corpse'. Rogal Dorn and the Imperial Fists built the defenses of Terra and I think Rogal Dorn showing up to stand guard once more as a nice bow.
I mean the only Primarch we know for sure is toast is Sanguinius. Even then I'm not so sure. GW could very well just wave their hand and say "Look! All the Primarchs are back now for no reason whatsoever!". Wouldn't be the first time they screwed with the lore *cough* Necrons *cough*
... Ultra Smurfs turn traitor in the most justifiable way? I'm game.
I think if a schism is going to happen between the faith and Guilliman, we may see not only the release of the new Sisters of Battle, but possibly Lorgar's return. He may try to sway and manipulate the faith due to him being the one to create it in the first place. If Lorgar does return, we may also see Corvus Corax hot on his heels since he's been chasing him through the warp after their last encounter.
There is another problem, the powers of the warp and chaos are defined by the power of belief and emotion. The fact that the people believe in the emperor so much and feel that he will save them so much, is the reason we have characters like Celestine, or that the "holy" miracles that actually occur, do occur. If anything big E has inadvertently become a God, because he is the manifestation of Hope as an ideology, he just resides in the materium instead of the warp.
So the Imperium has itself caught in a catch 22, the upper levels of the Inquisiton and the Highlords are "from my recollection" entirely aware of how the Emperor wanted the empire run, but now they have to enforce the Imperial Creed because if it becomes publicly doubted, then will adversely affect the Emperors strength in the Warp. So they can't get rid of the religion, and instead double down on, which leads to risking fanaticism.
Conscious acknowledgement of big E not being a god, would probably destroy the entire empire.
Exactly!
In a story I am writing, between speaking to Saint Celestine and Yvraine [and now hearing about his actually reading the Lecticio] Guilliman , among other reforms, works with the Ministorum and Inquisition to, essentially awaken the star-child.
Knowing how the warp works, including how the eldar created their gods...and slannesh, he attempts reformations:
-The Emperor is NOT a vengeful god, he is the Protector of Mankind [to squash Khorne cults based on Emps as war god]
-The Empire is not great because of humans, humans are elevated when the Empire flourishes [to avoid Slanneshi-based cults of personality]
-In times of greatest need, the Emperor's Guardian Angels will come, wreathed in flame, clad in black war plate, bolters screaming salvation [as an experiment to attempt to manifest the Legion of the Damned as the emperor's Daemons/Angels]
-Those of purest faith and dedication to the Imperium, may upon their martyrdom in defense of the Imperium, receive the Emperor's Blessing and revive as living Saints [to attempt to create more Imperial Demon Princes like Celestine]
Part of these reforms is the reinstating of all 20 legions, with Astartes from various Gene-lines, supported by complementary Regiments, Sororitas Orders, Titan Legions and Forge Worlds. Each Legion led by a war council of the highest ranked members of each department.
The Ecclesiarchy [along with each Ordo Majoris of the Inquisition and the Mechanicus] gets its own dedicated legion tasked with going to every Imperial temple, updating thier Scriptures with the core tenants above, deleting any local beliefs that contradict them or can be used as cover for Chaos Cults, and recording for review and possible canonization any local beliefs that enhance the message. The warrior contingent is there to stamp out any rebellions that may ensue and to support the Ordo Hereticus and Ordo Malleus legions when Heretical cults are found, re-educating the populace and leaving a contingent upon pacification. This legion is the XVII, under the original moniker: Imperial Heralds. Made up primarily from Blood angel and Dark Angel Successors [Guilliman knows about the Fallen through Cypher and plants Unforgiven in Legions tasked with rooting out traitors and true heretics] and from the Black Templars.
The Dark Angels [with help from Raven Guard and Carcharadons] also Rebuild the VIII Legion, dedicated to the Ordo Hereticus, the original purpose of the Night Lords, Known as the Dread Wing.
Blood Angels and Space Wolves rebuild the XII War Hounds with the Minotaurs and Deathwatch as a base, dedicated to the Ordo Xenos, specifically the aliens that cannot be reasoned with and must be purged without mercy: Tyranids and Orks. Bobby G knows of the curses of the Blood angels and Space Wolves, giving them endless supplies of Zenos to slake the bloodlust of the Wulfen and Death Company. This also upholds the Emperor's promise to Russ to never send his Legion against other Astartes again.
The last Ordo Legion is the XV Scholar Adepts, Ordo Malleus. Built from Exorcist, Grey Knight and Blood Raven stock, with oversight from Space Wolves [to provide redemption for Russ's folly] and White Scars [since Jagatai was Magnus' only true friend], they hunt daemons, protect the black ships of the Astra Telepathica and like the sons of Prospero did in the crusade, exchange Librarians with other legions to train them in approved for all arts and sreview and catalog the unique Chapter Disciplines.
For the Curious, the Mechanicus gets the IV Scions of Iron, made from Silver Skulls, Imperial Fists, and Iron Hands successors. Tasked with defending, re-claiming and founding Forge Worlds and [with Inquisitorial oversight] finding archaeotech and xenotech to incorporate into common Imperial use.
Yes Every "traitor" legion gets a Neo legion sent on eternal crusade based on Chapters that are purported to be their descendants and 2 loyalist legions that have either a link to the original legion or the task at hand. The loyalist legions are each tasked with defending a segmentum or region, in expansion of what the Ultramarines [still XII, but not led by Guilliman directly, he picks Cato] and his appointment of Dante as regeant of Imperium Nihilus [what the majority of the IX do since most of them are on or around Baal anyway].
Just want to say, its Lorgar's fault.
An Imperial Civil war is also a great time for believers of the Moirae tech-creed to combat the Mechanicus as well
10000 pyschkers fed to the Emperor every few days, the Emperor existing 10000 years at the psychic level in a corpse body, the Emperor keeping the Empire protected with all the chaos Gods opposing him, the Emperor freezes time to allow Jaq Draco and his party to personally visit him ... sounds pretty god like.
Guilliman read the lectitio divinatus. He will soon believe in the Emperor's godhood.
Nah, a living Saint crowned his head with a halo I think the ministorum will be fine with him. I want a new xenos war. Orks, tyranids, necrons etc.
Tybalt Marr tau
What's a "tau"?
Just a thought, but you have the possibility of a fanatic attempt to prove the Emperors divinity by killing him.
"See how my god cannot die! Oh... Bugger."
I had the exact same theory about a coming civil war between the imperial truth and the imperial creed. they could be building up to permanently (or at least for many years) split the imperium into two separate factions.
Son of the emperor who isn't covered in spikes or politicians? Paint me blue and call me a smurf.
Ever since I began reading the horus heresy books I shifted my pov on 40k. It's less grimdark, more stupidobvious... I mean, sure, milk it for what it's worth, but at this point I read every statement towards the intelligence of these mutants in air quotes with sarcasm dripping from every syllable.
I think Guilliman will try to convince the Sisters of Battle to follow the Imperial Truth. If they no longer follow the Ministorum, then Guilliman can take them down without much violence.
And what about the millions of worlds, planetary governors, inquisitors, titan legions and imperial guard regiments that believe the Emperor is a God?
The God-Emperor abides.
@@JohnBrowningsGhost The Titan Legions follow the Cult Mechanics, many high-ranking individuals like Inquisitors and Planetary Governors really only give the Imperial Cult lip-service, and the Imperium existed for 1,500 years before the Adeptus Ministorum was created.
I really hope it’s war. It would be awesome to see the Grey knights and Black Templar’s going against the Ultramarines, Fists and the rest of the sensible marines.
If there's a civil war, I'd stand with the Ministorum, just so there's no primaris :')
*sad primaris noises*
If a civil war does erupt between Papa Smurf and the Ministorum, I'm calling it right now: The Ministorum will be the ones to start it.
I think roboute is going to drink the Kool-Aid and believe the emperor is a God
Eldar after mistakes We will live more careful lives and protect our kin.
Tau after mistakes: We will help unite the galaxy for the better, and defend our charges.
Humans after mistakes: HORUS HERESY 2: PURGING BOOGALOO
If i remember right the Eldar birthed a whole new chaos god from their mistake and caused their race too split into two different races. The Tau frequently mind control their people through pheremones and live in a heavily enforced caste society
@@jasonburke1671 1 chaos god, compared to the 3 40k humans made, and I did say after their mistakes.
@@guardianaerdan8588 humanity created none of the Chaos gods. All of the Middle ages wars deaths couldent even approach the number of deaths from a single border clash in 40k. There was more change in the Eldar during their reign then there was in the Renaissance. Anything humanity did was inconsequential to the Immaterium up to when they became a space faring race. The more likely to have caused the birth of the other gods would have been the Eldar, the Old ones, or the Necrons during their war in the heavens
@@jasonburke1671 From what I have seen, the 40k lore seems to at least imply that humanity, gave the forming chaos gods that final push to full self-awareness. Had they been formed during the War in Heaven, would there not be mention of the eldar gods, then viewed as servant weapons, battling these new beings? Or simply Necrons, Old Ones, Ctan, or the Eldar themselves taking notice of them?
@@guardianaerdan8588 the War in Heaven is what Cannonically fucked up what the old ones knew at the time as the "Realm of Souls", turning it into the warp we know today. Since many of the Old Ones died during the War in the Heavens there were not many left to notice. The Eldar DID notice these warp gods, but until the Eye of Terror opened up from the Eldars fuck up, the Chaos gods didint have any say to access the Material plane en masse. They had to rely on Psykers becoming possessed by their daemons as Necrons had no soul and Orks arent connected to the Immaterium
If you’d side with the Ministorum, you side with Chaos
If all of this is possible, then I reckon its going to be gw's way of adding primaries marines too the fw portfolio.
Guilliman is too wise and practical to start a war with the Ministorum.
If Chaos and all the threats to mankind were eliminated then he would probably do it then.
Which is impossible since Chaos cannot be defeated
@@jbardouc808 Cawl is working on his own version of the Necron pilons to lock the Warp away.
@@AuramiteEX Either way, Chaos is something that can act against what you do to it. Such as containment: the more you try to contain, the more will unleash when the containment is broken
Now, you would think they'd listen to Papa Smurf, after all, he actually DID know and hang out with Daddy Emps. Oh...this is the only time you will ever see me rooting for Papa Smurf & his Smurf army (blueberry bunch) :P
My Black templars are behind rowboat girlyman on this one
when the kid came and blew away mortarian it was epic.
"war of the mind" Instantly reminds me of the cold war.
''some time in the near future , all primaris , at the same time turn to their brothers and exclaim ''I AM ALPHARIUS'' xP
Not happy that Robute essentially became the main character of 40k
Its trash
@@commissarlugh1040
I would prefer a Tau expansion book or a closure to Ghazskull's Tyranid campaign. I'm getting burned out on Imperium stories that go nowhere. Cypher's story being the biggest offender.
The whole reason that the Emperor isn't a central figure in the current narrative is for just that reason, to prevent the story becoming All Emperor, All the Time.
He's the heretic
No he's the heretic!
The civil war summarised
You can't kill me if I exterminatus myself.
I think there will be civil war as GW IP is closely based on Roman history. See the rise of two Emperors, one in the eastern fringes and one in the western fringes. This will also have the lovely side effect of allowing marine vs marine wars I.e. 30k style games but in the 40k universe.
Lol funny I was wondering the same thing. And here is a video about that very question. Just finished plague wars today.
Cato Sacarious : " I'm Helping! " *high pitch voice*
* While Malice makes his move on the chaos gods...Tzneech will fall first *
Well, I'm always going side with the Blood Angel's in every instance. But this is a truly tricky scenario. The Ministorum helped bring Daddy McBlueberry back. Also the Adepta Sororitas would be a dangerous for to fight, but with the revelation on the Our Martyred Lady audiobook the Decree Passive is no more and atm there is no leader of the Ecclesiarchy. Also Cannoness Sabrina told Celestine "beware of preachers". So I guess you can say that the Sisters could side with Guilliman if Celestine so ordered it if priests were undermining Imperial efforts to stop Chaos.
Apparently, since Lorgar personally wrote the Lectitio Divinatus, it's got some special power to instantly convert a regular person to the faith.
Im warning you, If you force me to choose I will stand with my Sisters.
I'll just make a Sister convent that loosens up on the fanaticism to follow the Emperors true will.
The Adepta Sororitas are a useful organization, but having them do the bidding of the Ecclesiarchy is foolish.
Don't waste your blood to the false faith sisters.
So this is how chaos gets primaris marines...
Have you check out the new Astartes video part four, it’s absolutely amazing
Maybe Gil is waiting for more of his brothers to return to wage that civil war
the return of power over 500 worlds is very similar to the actions of Ivan the Terrible in the fight against the boyars traitors
1 he first established Oprichnina - essentially a royal domain. or imperial provinces of Octavian. A powerful economic base in personal subordination
2 and after this is the creation of personally loyal troops
3 and then Order 66
A civil war would be interesting. There is Space Marine chapters that worship the Emperor as a god, would they follow the faith or the truth.
Yep, wonder who the Templars would side with? :D
@@ChapterMasterValrak Truthfully, if the Templars fought against Guilliman, the only person able to pull them onto Guilliman's side would likely have to be Rogal Dorn or the Emperor, himself.
See this is the major problem with reintroducing the Primarch’s (at least the loyalist ones) their worldview and timeline is so far in the past the the current day Imperium is almost as alien to them as the dark age of strife would have been. Their return almost forces the entire setting to an almost pre/mid/just post-heresy setting, where half the things that made that later setting don’t apply, or at least annoy the most powerful protagonists in the setting. It has irrevocably changed the setting and the Imperium as legends reawaken and walk the stars once more. The Imperium over time will be moulded more into the Emperor’s dream and vision than at anytime since the Crusade, and the Imperium of the 41st millennium with it’s darkness and misunderstanding of technology and superstition will fade. The very presence of a reawakened Guilliman leads to an age of hope and light, not darkness and fear. As one of his one Chapter’s banner read “our presence remakes the past”