hey buddy im looking forward to get a merc, I'm kinda confused about which one to get tho, my options are 1. 2009-2012 S63 AMG 2. 2005-2008 E63 AMG 3. 2010-2013 E63 AMG whats your opinion being an AMG owner ?
@@mohammedal-blaushi8495 It was great and ran strong with a tune for over 10K miles, but I sold the car in 2022 for something in a manual. The m113k is bulletproof, so I wouldn't worry about your engine at all if I were you. Find the legit street cars channel and check out his videos on modding the m113k engine - and especially the transmission! Yours has the same transmission as some Chrysler models and there are upgrades that are pretty cheap for making that transmission shift harder/smoother/quicker/etc...
The M113K is usually a more durable design than the AMG V8's that came after it. However, even the M113K has issues with (of all things something as major as) its sump lubrication system, pumps, and scavenge lines; all of which should be checked well and truly before the odometer see 100Ks. The M156, M157, and M159's are far worse than the M113 in the durability stakes; as some of their problems originate at the factory and can be catastrophic. Anybody that thinks AMG engines are bullet proof might want to think again and/or consider the below list of issues the below and/or aforementioned engines have. The M156 and M159 have camshaft, lifter, camshaft-lubrication, head bolt, camshaft timing mechanism, and other issues; that simply should not exist. It is not unusual to see an M157 in the Mercedes Benz workshop - with above/around (sometimes less than) 100K on the odometer - getting; (i) the conrods replaced; (ii) the crankshaft reground; (iii) new pistons; and (iv) the cylinders re-honed and/or re-sleeved. Some M157’s have conrod issues straight from the factory. This includes the gap tolerances between M157’s big ends being visibly too large; where in some cases the crankshaft journal can be seen in between the M157’s 2 big ends that share a common journal. To put that into context, usually when NASCAR, LeMans, and other endurance race engines are pulled out/down and rebuilt rarely do they suffer from these problems. What happens in these M157 engines (that have poor tolerances that allow the big ends to move about on the shared crankshaft journal) is the conrods start walking axially along their shared crankshaft journals and then lots of things break and your bank account gets hammered; just a much as the cylinder walls did from the pistons connected to the conrods - that went walkabout across their shared crankshaft journal in the 1st place. In general terms the M157 doesn’t usually have the same set of proven/extensive issues/considerations as those associated with the M156 that I have described in my other posts; but some of the issues it does have should not exist in a car of this cost/status. If you plan to increase/upgrade the boost/power on an M157 (or an M156) it’s a good idea to also subject to engine to a full rebuild before use; including regrinding/replacing the crankshaft, and replacing the conrods with aftermarket items that are stronger and capable of resolving the aforementioned big end spacing issue. And, if you're going to do all that then get new pistons and rings as well; and don’t run a diamond like coating on the rings as is done with some OEM M157’s. The reason being; the diamond like coating on the top ring of some OEM M157’s can sometimes fracture and/or break up (particularly if the conrods start walking along their shared crankshaft journal) and then accelerate other issues. Sometimes, when the engine is apart, it also makes sense to add a new set of camshafts, cam chains, and valves to the above list also; which then means, add a cylinder head rebuild or refurbish for both DOHC heads as well. Sometimes, when the engine is apart, you will not have any choice other than to add a new set of camshafts, cam chains, valves, and also a cylinder head rebuild for both DOHC heads; to the above M157 engine rebuild list, also. The reason for that is because the M157’s standard little-end and also (the more commonly aforementioned issues of) the M157’s big-end assembly journal spacings that allow the conrods to move and/or walk (axially) along the wristpin/crankshaft; which, in turn, creates the catastrophic above-mentioned bottom end problems - all mean that sometimes (particularly if the piston slaps the valves) these issues easily make their way up to the top-end cylinder heads in a truly cataclysmic fashion. The only way to avoid/resolve the issue (in my opinion) is to - regardless of how new the M157 may be - replace the pistons, wristpins, and conrods (with Carillo and JE items; or another suitable brand) and ensure the correct big-end journal clearances exist. Otherwise the aforementioned M157 design defects may just force you to do it at a time/cost defined by them; where the cost/inconvenience factor is easily twice that if you would have proactively addressed the problem. And, as I am sure you have already guessed, even an M157 rebuild that is not forced upon you as a result of the above-mentioned AMG design defects, is usually still way more expensive than what most owners are prepared for. Let’s be real here; rebuilding an M157 is not like tearing down and rebuilding a Chevrolet 6.2 Litre LS. As such, this then raises the consideration of checking before you buy/modify and also investing a good insurance plan. So, as you can see - even if you put engine issues/considerations to one side - owning a Mercedes Benz outside of warranty is no joke. Jim Stanley - Ex AMG Powertrain Engineer.
@@namengross *Part 1* I am not sure whether or not you're talking about buying a replacement and/or used/new M113K engine; or, if you're talking about purchasing a car that has an M113K in it with
*Part 2 - M113 Main Seal Continued* Whilst it almost always is a sign of a major problem; sometimes it’s not such a bad thing because if you're buying a second hand and/or rebuilt M113 (whether it be in a car or not) you can extract/sample the leaked oil and then take it to be analysed and that will tell you how good the engine may be; provided you know what the results mean. In any event, anyone owning an M113 will probably need to buy a drip tray to place under it in the garage anyway; so you can use that for the samples/testing and to keep the garage and/or driveway neat/tidy. *M113 Cooling System(s)* The entire cooling circuit (intercooler, transmission cooler, and radiator) of the M113 is *flawed and will only remain operable and completely free from problems for people that rarely drive their car and/or live in cold climates like Greenland and Sweden/Norway. *M113 Supercharger Cooling/Other System(s) - Includes ECU Functionality* Best to replace the supercharger intercooler/pump with better aftermarket units and then ensure the entire supercharger intercooler circuit is independent to the radiator; in other words the supercharger intercooler must have its own dedicated cooling circuit and if you want to go all the way then get a chiller system that actively cools the intake air in addition to the aftermarket water to air heat exchanger. The reason that is so important is because the M113K’s ECU reduces boost pressures, modifies ignition maps and/or retards timing; all of which means less power; as soon as it detects high intake temperatures. It does this via (several means including) constantly sampling charge intake temperatures; so, when/if the ECU senses the air is too hot it instantly recalibrates timing/boost as above-mentioned. Once the ECU does this it may not always roll straight back to the previous settings as soon as the conditions - that caused the above-mentioned timing/boost recalibration event - are no longer valid. In simple terms this means that the actions the ECU took to ensure the M113 maintained control over the combustion process (in order to prevent things that spin/rotate inside the engine from breaking when temperatures are above a certain threshold) may persist even when the temperatures drop back below the threshold that initially caused the event in the first place; and that can be a problem too. So, in my opinion, it’s best to replace the entire supercharger cooling circuit and pump with one that; is bigger/better; more reliable; capable of handling extreme temperatures; can store/pump a significant amount of cooling fluid; and - most importantly - is completely independent of all the other cooling systems. The supercharger’s cooling circuit is basically an intercooler (air-to-water) located in the engine's valley between the cylinders and underneath the supercharger (so it is rarely cold/cool); that is connected to a heat exchanger that is usually located at the front of the engine bay. Usually (read on almost all OEM M113 engines/systems) the supercharger’s coolant fluid is stored in the same factory expansion coolant tank that also houses/contains the coolant fluid that the engine/radiator also relies upon. This is (one reason) why *above I stated that the entire cooling circuit/system is flawed. The joint coolant (stored in the aforementioned factory expansion coolant tank) is effectively pumped through the two relatively small (air-to-water) heat exchangers (car radiator and supercharger intercooler); and as such if the radiator/engine runs hot it can create a runaway condition where the supercharger intake temperatures get hot very quickly (or vice versa); and then the aforementioned ECU event-reactions occur that (can't always be quickly rolled back and) throttle down timing/boost and power. The same (unnecessarily interdependent) issue may arise if you get a ~stone in the radiator and it develops a leak.
*Part 3 - M113 Supercharger Cooling/Other System(s) - Includes ECU Functionality Continued* So, if you're going to replace the entire supercharger cooling system and replace it with a dedicated/independent aftermarket air-to-water system (which I highly recommend) you will need to remember to both, get another (make it very) large coolant expansion tank (for the supercharger) and to also remove the OEM ”T-connector” on the OEM factory expansion tank that allows the OEM supercharger’s cooling system to share fluid with the engine’s coolant. In addition to all the below and/or aforementioned benefits of having an independent cooling system and reservoir for the (transmission and) supercharger; there is the fact that now you have independent control over the type/amount of fluid in each cooling system. And all that equals greater levels of efficiency/performance for the engine, transmission and supercharger cooling systems. *M113K Supercharger and Related Mechanical Systems* While you're there (working on the supercharger cooling circuit) you may as well address the supercharger issues that plague most M113K’s also; and they are the tensioner/serpentine system, the supercharger pulley bearing, and sometimes the pulley itself. This (the tensioner system and supercharger pulley bearings) is usually where that squealing noise comes from that often happens when M113’s start up; and it usually persists for a few minutes before fading away as the belt/pulley assembly warms up and provides the required traction increase. Best to replace the lot with a new/aftermarket system so you have new bearings everywhere and an upgraded serpentine drive; and (provided you have performed the aforementioned supercharger cooling circuit modifications) perhaps a smaller upper supercharger pulley to add a little more boost also. *M113 Transmission Cooling System* I would also completely replace the transmission cooling system also. Depending on various things including what country the car was built for; some M113K’s had shared cooling systems meaning that (as ~above-mentioned) if the main radiator was damaged then it wasn’t just the engine that got hot - the transmission and supercharger cooling systems also did. It’s an utterly flawed design approach that brought many a tear to an owners eye - whilst earning stealerships a lot of money. As such fitting a dedicated/external transmission oil cooler and a new/reliable pump is a good idea. *M113 Crankshaft Sensor* OK, now to the crankshaft sensor. If the crankshaft sensor can't reliably detect where the radius of the crankshaft is pointing (and relay that to the ignition system) then it and/or the ignition system will have absolutely no idea what cylinder is about to require the spark to initiate the combustion process and power stroke. This is (one reason) why some M113’s intermittently start, run for a while, and then stop. If the engine has done more than 70K and/or is not new then replace the crankshaft sensor straight away - even if it has not showed any problematic signs - whilst you do all the other stuff. That way your engine will have a better chance of always starting/stopping reliably; rather than intermittently - as can be the case with many M113 OEM crankshaft sensors.
*Part 4 - M113 Fuel Rails* Sometimes the fuel injection pressure/system on the M113 is less than spectacular. Although it is not as common as some of the other issues I mention herein, issues related to the fuel injection system can - in extreme cases - cause one cylinder to receive less fuel than the others; which, in turn can then (quite counterintuitively) lead to detonation/explosions. New fuel rails (all equalized) and a better pump are usually the way to go. *M113 Engine Scavenge Pump Bearings and O-Rings* Now we’re getting into the really outrageous/serious stuff. You can easily destroy your M113 by having an o-ring installed in between the scavenge pipe line and pump housing (within the sump) that has hardened, is crumbling, and/or of the wrong composition. The real issues are; (i) how would you know what o-ring you had when these components are buried down deep in the sump with some other very curious features that do very little to lengthen the lifespan of the M113; (ii) WTF is a rubber/composite seal doing in between where the main scavenge line mates with the main pump anyway; and last but not least (iii) why is there no strainer on the main scavenger oil pump. *OK the answer to Engine Scavenge Pump Bearings and O-Rings Point (i)* is as follows; most owners that don’t work for Mercedes Benz and/or AMG will not know unless they ripped the engine apart and/or experienced a catastrophic failure because the o-ring in question (that is installed between the scavenge pipe line and main oil pump’s housing in the sump) is put there from the factory. Yep, that’s right, the o-ring that is installed in between the scavenge pipe line and pump housing from the factory; and therefore (anyone that designs and/or tears down a few old M113’s will attest to the fact that) it is a common and unnecessary problem (specific to M113’s) that often spins crank-train bearings; starves the top end of the engine from oil; and/or causes other catastrophic problems that include throwing a rod through the block and/or sump. Well then, since (by way of AMG accountants {read; not as a result of AMG powertrain engineers}) there is an (albeit unnecessary) o-ring installed by the factory between the M113’s scavenge pipe line and the main pump housing one might think it would be made of the correct composition - so it does not harden from all the heat cycles. Nope - there is no such thing fitted to most M113’s that leave the factory powering a Mercedes Benz. What that means is that all the OEM factory fitted o-rings that reside between the M113’s scavenge pipe line and pump housing are made from a questionable composition that is not reliable and/or durable (there's a difference between reliable and durable) within the context of 150K worth of heat cycles And, if only that were the end of the problems perhaps we would then smile/laugh. *OK the answer to Engine Scavenge Pump Bearings and O-Rings Point (ii)* is as follows . . . Unfortunately the fact remains that (from a powertrain design perspective) there actually is NO REQUIREMENT whatsoever for any o-ring to exist and/or be installed between the scavenge pipe line and pump housing. So, now we have poor quality OEM rubber seals in critical places (of the M113) where no such seal is required. The reason there is absolutely no need for a rubber seal where the main scavenge line mates with the main pump is because the entire assembly can easily be made as 1 piece.
Had a E63S of the last Model year with the M157 and loved it; with a very mild tune I ran mid 11’s around 125mph. The problem with the car was the transmission which was weak and the car would not launch well, proven by the 125 trap speed which would typically give an ET closer to 11 flat
U could have fixed that issue with a tcu tune. Eurocharged, renntech, and one other company all offer one. Would have chances the launch and acceleration and. Throttle response drastically
Lol that’s because it has torque reduction in the lower gears to save the trans. What do you expect in a heavy ass car with AWD that makes tons of power, and has to maintain a level of reliability? You can feel the boost coming in in the higher gears
It’s not that the transmission that is weak. The transmission can handle 900 ft lb of tq stock. How is that weak? It’s the transmission computers that is limiting the torque output at lower gears. By getting a transmission flash you are risking damaging the transmission because the tune removes all the safety precautions the stock tcu has put in place. Imagine having close to 900 ft lb of tq and getting a tcu tune just to damage your transmission just to shave .2 tenths of secs. off of your 1/4 mile time.
I know this is an old video but my E63s with the M157 will be here Friday. Moving up from the CLS55 which I love, but the mileage is soo high (234k+)so I need to put it down for a bit. Looking forward to having some awd fun now
I feel like MB overdid themselves with this M157 5.5L Biturbo V8. Even their Super cars like the AMG GT get the 4.0 L Bi turbo - The 5.5L is simply superior and reliable engine that sounds great. Its incredible.
It really isnt Its reliable as hell. Bolt ons past 700HP or whipple supercharger past 850HP. @@robcarlson7845Id say the biggest loss is the turtle of a transmission. Thats probably where M157 cars shine
This is a love or hate engine. If you see some videos from Tasos Moschatos you'll see this engine is very weak. Eventhough I really love it because of the sound it makes and the magnificent powerplant it is.There are people making over 1000hp with these engines but of course you need to take care of some parts before reaching those numbers. Rods, chain tensioners, cam adjusters, etc.
@@Phuong_Nguyen_ M156 sounds the best and is just legendary, M157 is a great mix of sound and power but the turbo lag is bad, M177 is easily the worst sounding but the power is incredible and doesn’t stop. Just depends on what you want. It’s definitely hilarious daily driving a 750hp sedan.
We just bought a 2015 mercedes benz GL63 amg. The SUV is so smooth and powerful by a flick of a switch. Now we just replace the radio front and rear rotors pads and sensors. Good thing that we still have the warranty son they are paying for that. But once we get it back, the eurocharge tune will be installed, so it will be more powerful and fun. Love our SUV. My wife is really happy with her car.
I love mine in my cls63 s model. I have had 113 and 156 but to me the reponsivness of how quickly torque is delivered with this engine puts this engine in its own class. Before the tune the engine was delivering 600 horse, which is very nice but the torque this engine delivers is insanity, even at stock.. With the tune I'm in around 730 and 840 ft#trq which is way fun, and the engine adapts nicely to standardized, reputable tune solutions.. Unlike the troubles I had with the 113. Very quick and with solid performance. Amg only improved this engine and picking one up after 2014 is a good add to your collection.
@@scottmitchell9856Sorry but you’re not at those numbers with just a tune and blow off. My m157 is stage 2, catless down pipes, .22 gap colder plugs, black boost box. I’m making 744 hp and 831 tq crank. Who’s your car tuned by?
@@talkditingsdem5799 How safe is the wiestec tune on this engine? I’m thinking of buying a 2012 cls63, that’s wiestec tuned with upgraded filter and older plugs.
I thought this engine was a reliable engine until I saw Tasos' videos. He shows how 4 Matic (which is the only E63s we get in NA) versions bend connecting rods even in stock cars. When that happens, the cylinder walls get ruined. The cylinder wall cover is very soft in M157. I think anybody who's see Tasos' videos trusts his words.
@@dg1738 it’s a hit or miss. But asides from cylinder wall scoring there are other issues. If you have money, skip m157 and get yourself an AMG with m177.
I've had my car for a little over a year, so not long. Only issues I've had with it is the one's I caused. Tuned it and Coils/Plugs went out otherwise I haven't had any other issues with it. Mine is a 2013 with 58k miles bought and now I have close to 70k.
Phuong Nguyen I changed the plugs unfortunately 3 times before figuring out it was coils. The plugs from what i know was not indexed. When the first time I changed it with Brisk Plugs they told me its not needed with there plugs. The second time was NGK's and third was the factory plugs just gapped at .024. Thats what I have now and been driving on for a few months. It does miss or have slight hick up here and there still bit hardly noticeable . Im doing 1 step colder soon and bought them from VRPSpeed. Will see how those pan out.
Phuong Nguyen Thats atleast what a Brisk salesperson said. There are others who say you must index but this time Im taking it to a Merc Dealer and just have them do it. I got no part numbers for the ngk just bought it off vrp and on vrp site they dont post the part# either. Just says one step colder.
That's why I went stock as well, the forums. Some also say just use the stock gap as well. I gapped mine .024. I don't know I wish tunes weren't expensive but going from tune to tune is costly. The 2nd time wih the NGK I went with what my mechanic looked up on his computer and suggested that particular plug. Its a long story with my plug issues but that NGK plug was not as wide so the boot would not fit on it properly meaning tight enough. I ended up running that plug for a couple of weeks till I changed them.
I did DTK and now im running Matt HD Tunning. He eventually meaning Matt dyno tuned it at Lang Racing Development. Both tunes felt great, decent amount of torque. Both tunes pulled about the same power just that Matts tune although not perfect and I cant blame it on him or anyone else could still be a plug issue or another but he's tune runs a lot smoother. Very minor hick ups. My 2007 E550 Has O.E Tune. There a reputable company as well never had an issue with them.
This video was the one of the most informative videos I have ever watched. I have also solved an issue with my ECI having traces of oil in it by watching this video. Awesome Video!!!!!!!!!!!
Still one of my dream engines... Let's hope they heavily depreciate fast😄... Really really good review! All the tech data and experiences packed into a vid that doesn't put you to sleep!
Good content AMGmeister!!! How would you rate the M157 against bimmers inline 6 s58. Reason I asked I'm looking to get either a 15-16 amg wagon or a 2020 X3m competition. I test drove to bimmer but yet to have test driven the wagon. I feel like just based on research the wagon is a little more spacious and practical from an interior standpoint, but I do like the ground clearance of the bimmer. Plus, I'm in Atlanta, GA where Mercedes Benz stadium is located. What better to pull up at an event at the Benz in Benz!!!! Any thoughts would gladly be appreciated!!!
Excellent Video Meister! Can you do a Video on the CL550 engines including the AMG models from 2007 to 2014 I would like to purchase on but want to know what years to stay away from.
You missed one problem. Cylinder 5 misfire caused by improper valve seat. I was a dealer tech for 4 years and we saw this quite a bit. Not sure if it was because we had a high concentration of 157 or 278 engines in our area, but it affected both. I cant tell you if it was earlier or later models. I never paid attention enough.
What was your most common method to fix the issue? I have a miss on cyl 5 only while motor is cold. Passed Como tests but failed leak down though intake valves. Again only while cold.
The M157 is a torque monster , it makes my large heavy and luxurious S63 act like a sports car when needed, experiencing the best of both worlds in one package, who can ask for more :)
Had an M157 Engine in the Shop 2 weeks ago. The engine had 90.000 km on it and the chain snapped. This is a serious quality problem. Thankfully nothing got damaged.
I've owned a few AMG's including the M156, M157 & M177 (in my newer c63s) - this engine was awesome, I must say the M156 is a nicer engine to have fun with BUT this thing sounds great, nice turbo sound, deep throaty burble... possibly sounds better than the M177 and the M177 has all the fancy variable exhaust.
@@Phuong_Nguyen_ Yeah - the M156 just has a quick revving, more vibrant feel, like a race engine. The M157 is more powerful & torque than the 156 but more tame I guess and slightly less exciting - they're probably equally great in their own right, just very different feeling.
@@thatmatty231guy interesting. Never driven a m156. But I have an m278 e550 coupe which is the little brother of the m157. And the e coupe is lightweight like a c63. Im also Eurocharged tuned downpipes and intake and the thing is a torque monster and very good on gas too. But yes it is a slower revving engine. But dollar for dollar it can’t be beat.
Awesome! I just bought a E500 Coupe with the M278. What a magnificent engine even in the non AMG version. Also id like to know what exactly the difference between the M278 and the M157 are besides the higher displacement of course. Also you should have mentioned Brabus. We took this engine and made a 6.0 liter version with 850hp out of it. It sold really well.
Surprisingly, there is not that much difference between the M278 and the M157 other than the increase in displacement. The other main difference is that the m278 has smaller turbos with only up to 13 psi boost.
Phuong Nguyen I know that. But I mean the base structure of the engine. What about the cylinder heads? The parts around the engine? I think it’s pretty much identical. I know this engine quite well. Like I said we sold so many of these in the 6.0 liter version. Brutal machine.
@@FaizAlshehri however the wear and tear on the camshafts are a down side. Roller bearings imo are the best and that is what the m159 engine uses which is a direct upgrade to the m156
Good job as usual ...one request or tip ,, ,,could you give power and torque figures in kW and Nm as well please...many countries don't use horsepower and ft.lbs. Thanks..
The 6.2, which in my opinion sounds the best in the W211 E63 and the CLS of the same year, is my favourite. Don't need exhaust tuning cause stock it sound good enough... Tuning the exhaust makes it too loud and noisy instead of a nice sound. The second place is shared by the M113K and the M157. Both torque monsters and like the sound of both of them. And again, stock. No exhaust tuning. My least favourite is the new 4.0 hot V engine.
My c63 w204 had stock exhaust for a year or so, then secondary cat delete, then went for iPE headers with race cats. The headers were very antisocial on start up but when cruising were as silent as stock, but when you opened it up the sound was absolutely incredible. Not over the top or ruined, genuinely very exotic and I would defo recommend anyone to get the headers who want to really enjoy the car. The stock exhaust doesn’t compare; however compared to a lot of cars today it does sound great.
Was thinking about getting on of these but cls63. The thing is every m157 tasos moschatos looks at has bent connecting rods so it’s kind of discouraging
Very informative as usual! I notice the block has open-deck design but many performance-oriented engines as far as I know would be closed-deck. Is this one of the main weakness of the m157? Is it a cost-cutting measure or they did this to achieve some other purposes? I believe the new m177 went back to closed-deck design though. I'd be glad to see a comparison video between these two!
Open deck may be better for cooling but it's also a weak point. The M157 also has very soft cylinder walls. This means if you ever want to use forged internals, you will need to resleeeve the block other wise the harder metal of the forged internals will eat through the cylinders. To me it's an obvious cost cutting measure by Mercedes. For massive power with reliability you can't go past an LS engine. It's just a more robust design. Stock LS3 engines can take 800hp all day. They tear themselves apart at 1000hp though when tested.
@@mrmysterious6006 Thanks for sharing this! The LS series is definitely the better option for making insane power as many would agree. I really think this Merc engine was born at a time when Daimler focused more on cost-saving than quality. The later M177 is by far a better design apparently.
I dont know if the amg version got better coolant lines for the turbos but the regular M278 had plastic garbage ones that broke if you looked at them the wrong way, and they suck to replace.
Looking to replace my f82 m4 comp for a 2018 gle63s would you say the later year car like a 2018 would be a good daily driver? It has 58k miles but good service records
I love those engine guides. I would love to see a guide like this on the new inline 6 mild hybrid AMG and the 4 liter V8. They are probably too new that problems are apparent already. However in a few years you should to a guide on those engines.
Which the best used AMG to buy on a budget and would be relatively trouble free? Thank you for your videos, they are very informative in a way us mortals can understand.
You're mistaken about the cam sensor dude. The seal isn't the issue but rather the oil permeates through the plastic sensor and gets into the wire harness.
I hope you read and respond to this. Is it true M157 does not have factory blow off/diverter valves? Renntech and Weistec sell aftermarket and say it doesn't. If that's true. The turbos were made to eventually fail.
I've been wanting a CLS55 AMG, but they're just too old. I've looked at the CLS63 AMG biturbo, but that's a bit out if my price range. Now I'm looking at the CLS550 4matic. We'll see. 🤷🏿♂️
There was a certain serial number that you need to look for in the M156 engines that the head bolt issue was corrected. Any engine after that # was ok. Also the 2011 had the N.A. engine. No turbos.
I am looking for a 2013/2014 GL 63 AMG with the M157 engine. How do I check which chain it has? And on what mileage/km do you normally replace the chain?
Have a question for Maestro. If we get to buy a sat M157 for ten years from 2012. What would you recommend us to do if we buy the car? Do I change the timing chain or wait for ECL or engine codes to light up? I guess what I'm asking is if the symptom would show before major damage or it's going to go to complete failure all of a sudden ? Any feedback will be appreciated. Thank you
You didn’t mention the naturally aspirated version of this motor! Used for a few years in the aptly named SLC55. Always thought it would have made a fantastic base motor for the AMG GT.
I love so much my black E55 AMG w211 tuned to 515 ps and 830 nm but I dream to have also an E63S AMG phase 2 with reprog something like 700 -800 ps and 1200 nm…😋
Thank you for the informative video. One thing I disagree with though is when you say the m157 does not have as much character as the m156... I've driven both and in my opinion, the m156 is more track-focussed. It's rewarding but you need to work the revs hard to get the most out of it. It's surprising for such a large engine to have relatively low torque at low revs. With the m157, it feels like you are in cheat mode all the time because the car has such ridiculous levels of torque from ~1500rpm. The soundtrack is also second to none and sounds like you have stuffed a thunderstorm into your boot :D Everyone should try and drive an m157 at least once in their lives!
@@Alpinatom I have all 3 variation. 2 m156, 2 m157 and 1 m178 engine and all 3 engines has their own distinct sound. I wouldn't say that one sound better than the other just different and more of a preference thing. The m156 sound like an organic lions roar, especially on an open throttle. The m157 sound like a loud thunder clap on open throttle and have a deep bass sound while just cruising. I admit the m178 doesn't sound as unique as the other two, its more pops and burbles unnecessarily to be honest but sounds okay on full throttle.
@@Alpinatom Also the m156 is the more fun to drive out of the 3 engines. The m157 and m178 will blow the doors off the m156 but the n/a v8 in those cars are a blast to drive.
@@talkditingsdem5799 your talking crap, blow no doors off, it's a newer developed engine, but it doesn't blow the N/A engine away at all. The the m156 loves to be revved. It gets angry when it's revved lol
After nearly a decade of production, the m157 ended its run at AMG in 2019. It's definitely a torque monster.
AMGmeister I know that youre not ”dieselmeister” but can you please make overview of another torque monster? Its called OM629, 4L biturbo V8 diesel
Small nitpick but the 63 isn’t for marketing purposes to keep the name the same, it’s a call back to their racing heritage
Hey can you do a video on the M177? I am thinking about buying a car with one of those and would like your input!
So they call it a biturbo, but it has 2 exact same garret turbo units.. Doesn't it make a Twin Turbo instead then?
@@Stichting-AAP no twin turbo and biturbo mean the same thing
Just picked up 2014 e63s amg and boy am I in love still have my 2008 m156 as well
Awesome
hey buddy im looking forward to get a merc, I'm kinda confused about which one to get tho, my options are
1. 2009-2012 S63 AMG
2. 2005-2008 E63 AMG
3. 2010-2013 E63 AMG
whats your opinion being an AMG owner ?
@@techpsych4012get what you feel most passionate about
@@techpsych4012 2013 bro
You should be getting paid by Mercedes. Your videos are by far the best. Thank you.
This background is invaluable for enthusiasts, thank you!
Thats my engine in my CLS63! Love the car. Not as raw as the C63 was that I had, but in the CLS its really smooth.
Is is a reliable motor? I've been in love with the CLS for a long time.
@@panamera53 Yes the M157 is pretty bulletproof like the M113K
Any updates on the car’s reliability im looking for one currently, i got the cls 55 m113k
@@mohammedal-blaushi8495 It was great and ran strong with a tune for over 10K miles, but I sold the car in 2022 for something in a manual. The m113k is bulletproof, so I wouldn't worry about your engine at all if I were you.
Find the legit street cars channel and check out his videos on modding the m113k engine - and especially the transmission! Yours has the same transmission as some Chrysler models and there are upgrades that are pretty cheap for making that transmission shift harder/smoother/quicker/etc...
No mention of the ML63! For shame. That’s my daily driver and I love it. No one gets to the grocery store or hockey practice faster than me.
Plaid.
@@foam27until it catches on fire or gives you low battery indication after 100 miles 😂
Any reliability issues?
This make want to go and hug my CL55, she is a great girl.
Gaaayyyyy😂
How can you refer to a car as “She”
Thx 4 mentioning. I have several S55's but now like the CL style better for around town.
@@topo520 ppl have done so since there have been cars...
@@topo520 guess you have never seen gone in 60 seconds
The M113K is usually a more durable design than the AMG V8's that came after it.
However, even the M113K has issues with (of all things something as major as) its sump lubrication system, pumps, and scavenge lines; all of which should be checked well and truly before the odometer see 100Ks.
The M156, M157, and M159's are far worse than the M113 in the durability stakes; as some of their problems originate at the factory and can be catastrophic.
Anybody that thinks AMG engines are bullet proof might want to think again and/or consider the below list of issues the below and/or aforementioned engines have.
The M156 and M159 have camshaft, lifter, camshaft-lubrication, head bolt, camshaft timing mechanism, and other issues; that simply should not exist.
It is not unusual to see an M157 in the Mercedes Benz workshop - with above/around (sometimes less than) 100K on the odometer - getting; (i) the conrods replaced; (ii) the crankshaft reground; (iii) new pistons; and (iv) the cylinders re-honed and/or re-sleeved.
Some M157’s have conrod issues straight from the factory.
This includes the gap tolerances between M157’s big ends being visibly too large; where in some cases the crankshaft journal can be seen in between the M157’s 2 big ends that share a common journal.
To put that into context, usually when NASCAR, LeMans, and other endurance race engines are pulled out/down and rebuilt rarely do they suffer from these problems.
What happens in these M157 engines (that have poor tolerances that allow the big ends to move about on the shared crankshaft journal) is the conrods start walking axially along their shared crankshaft journals and then lots of things break and your bank account gets hammered; just a much as the cylinder walls did from the pistons connected to the conrods - that went walkabout across their shared crankshaft journal in the 1st place.
In general terms the M157 doesn’t usually have the same set of proven/extensive issues/considerations as those associated with the M156 that I have described in my other posts; but some of the issues it does have should not exist in a car of this cost/status.
If you plan to increase/upgrade the boost/power on an M157 (or an M156) it’s a good idea to also subject to engine to a full rebuild before use; including regrinding/replacing the crankshaft, and replacing the conrods with aftermarket items that are stronger and capable of resolving the aforementioned big end spacing issue.
And, if you're going to do all that then get new pistons and rings as well; and don’t run a diamond like coating on the rings as is done with some OEM M157’s.
The reason being; the diamond like coating on the top ring of some OEM M157’s can sometimes fracture and/or break up (particularly if the conrods start walking along their shared crankshaft journal) and then accelerate other issues.
Sometimes, when the engine is apart, it also makes sense to add a new set of camshafts, cam chains, and valves to the above list also; which then means, add a cylinder head rebuild or refurbish for both DOHC heads as well.
Sometimes, when the engine is apart, you will not have any choice other than to add a new set of camshafts, cam chains, valves, and also a cylinder head rebuild for both DOHC heads; to the above M157 engine rebuild list, also.
The reason for that is because the M157’s standard little-end and also (the more commonly aforementioned issues of) the M157’s big-end assembly journal spacings that allow the conrods to move and/or walk (axially) along the wristpin/crankshaft; which, in turn, creates the catastrophic above-mentioned bottom end problems - all mean that sometimes (particularly if the piston slaps the valves) these issues easily make their way up to the top-end cylinder heads in a truly cataclysmic fashion.
The only way to avoid/resolve the issue (in my opinion) is to - regardless of how new the M157 may be - replace the pistons, wristpins, and conrods (with Carillo and JE items; or another suitable brand) and ensure the correct big-end journal clearances exist.
Otherwise the aforementioned M157 design defects may just force you to do it at a time/cost defined by them; where the cost/inconvenience factor is easily twice that if you would have proactively addressed the problem.
And, as I am sure you have already guessed, even an M157 rebuild that is not forced upon you as a result of the above-mentioned AMG design defects, is usually still way more expensive than what most owners are prepared for.
Let’s be real here; rebuilding an M157 is not like tearing down and rebuilding a Chevrolet 6.2 Litre LS.
As such, this then raises the consideration of checking before you buy/modify and also investing a good insurance plan.
So, as you can see - even if you put engine issues/considerations to one side - owning a Mercedes Benz outside of warranty is no joke.
Jim Stanley - Ex AMG Powertrain Engineer.
Thank u very much
@@namengross *Part 1*
I am not sure whether or not you're talking about buying a replacement and/or used/new M113K engine; or, if you're talking about purchasing a car that has an M113K in it with
*Part 2 - M113 Main Seal Continued*
Whilst it almost always is a sign of a major problem; sometimes it’s not such a bad thing because if you're buying a second hand and/or rebuilt M113 (whether it be in a car or not) you can extract/sample the leaked oil and then take it to be analysed and that will tell you how good the engine may be; provided you know what the results mean.
In any event, anyone owning an M113 will probably need to buy a drip tray to place under it in the garage anyway; so you can use that for the samples/testing and to keep the garage and/or driveway neat/tidy.
*M113 Cooling System(s)*
The entire cooling circuit (intercooler, transmission cooler, and radiator) of the M113 is *flawed and will only remain operable and completely free from problems for people that rarely drive their car and/or live in cold climates like Greenland and Sweden/Norway.
*M113 Supercharger Cooling/Other System(s) - Includes ECU Functionality*
Best to replace the supercharger intercooler/pump with better aftermarket units and then ensure the entire supercharger intercooler circuit is independent to the radiator; in other words the supercharger intercooler must have its own dedicated cooling circuit and if you want to go all the way then get a chiller system that actively cools the intake air in addition to the aftermarket water to air heat exchanger.
The reason that is so important is because the M113K’s ECU reduces boost pressures, modifies ignition maps and/or retards timing; all of which means less power; as soon as it detects high intake temperatures.
It does this via (several means including) constantly sampling charge intake temperatures; so, when/if the ECU senses the air is too hot it instantly recalibrates timing/boost as above-mentioned.
Once the ECU does this it may not always roll straight back to the previous settings as soon as the conditions - that caused the above-mentioned timing/boost recalibration event - are no longer valid.
In simple terms this means that the actions the ECU took to ensure the M113 maintained control over the combustion process (in order to prevent things that spin/rotate inside the engine from breaking when temperatures are above a certain threshold) may persist even when the temperatures drop back below the threshold that initially caused the event in the first place; and that can be a problem too.
So, in my opinion, it’s best to replace the entire supercharger cooling circuit and pump with one that; is bigger/better; more reliable; capable of handling extreme temperatures; can store/pump a significant amount of cooling fluid; and - most importantly - is completely independent of all the other cooling systems.
The supercharger’s cooling circuit is basically an intercooler (air-to-water) located in the engine's valley between the cylinders and underneath the supercharger (so it is rarely cold/cool); that is connected to a heat exchanger that is usually located at the front of the engine bay. Usually (read on almost all OEM M113 engines/systems) the supercharger’s coolant fluid is stored in the same factory expansion coolant tank that also houses/contains the coolant fluid that the engine/radiator also relies upon.
This is (one reason) why *above I stated that the entire cooling circuit/system is flawed.
The joint coolant (stored in the aforementioned factory expansion coolant tank) is effectively pumped through the two relatively small (air-to-water) heat exchangers (car radiator and supercharger intercooler); and as such if the radiator/engine runs hot it can create a runaway condition where the supercharger intake temperatures get hot very quickly (or vice versa); and then the aforementioned ECU event-reactions occur that (can't always be quickly rolled back and) throttle down timing/boost and power.
The same (unnecessarily interdependent) issue may arise if you get a ~stone in the radiator and it develops a leak.
*Part 3 - M113 Supercharger Cooling/Other System(s) - Includes ECU Functionality Continued*
So, if you're going to replace the entire supercharger cooling system and replace it with a dedicated/independent aftermarket air-to-water system (which I highly recommend) you will need to remember to both, get another (make it very) large coolant expansion tank (for the supercharger) and to also remove the OEM ”T-connector” on the OEM factory expansion tank that allows the OEM supercharger’s cooling system to share fluid with the engine’s coolant.
In addition to all the below and/or aforementioned benefits of having an independent cooling system and reservoir for the (transmission and) supercharger; there is the fact that now you have independent control over the type/amount of fluid in each cooling system.
And all that equals greater levels of efficiency/performance for the engine, transmission and supercharger cooling systems.
*M113K Supercharger and Related Mechanical Systems*
While you're there (working on the supercharger cooling circuit) you may as well address the supercharger issues that plague most M113K’s also; and they are the tensioner/serpentine system, the supercharger pulley bearing, and sometimes the pulley itself.
This (the tensioner system and supercharger pulley bearings) is usually where that squealing noise comes from that often happens when M113’s start up; and it usually persists for a few minutes before fading away as the belt/pulley assembly warms up and provides the required traction increase.
Best to replace the lot with a new/aftermarket system so you have new bearings everywhere and an upgraded serpentine drive; and (provided you have performed the aforementioned supercharger cooling circuit modifications) perhaps a smaller upper supercharger pulley to add a little more boost also.
*M113 Transmission Cooling System*
I would also completely replace the transmission cooling system also.
Depending on various things including what country the car was built for; some M113K’s had shared cooling systems meaning that (as ~above-mentioned) if the main radiator was damaged then it wasn’t just the engine that got hot - the transmission and supercharger cooling systems also did.
It’s an utterly flawed design approach that brought many a tear to an owners eye - whilst earning stealerships a lot of money. As such fitting a dedicated/external transmission oil cooler and a new/reliable pump is a good idea.
*M113 Crankshaft Sensor*
OK, now to the crankshaft sensor.
If the crankshaft sensor can't reliably detect where the radius of the crankshaft is pointing (and relay that to the ignition system) then it and/or the ignition system will have absolutely no idea what cylinder is about to require the spark to initiate the combustion process and power stroke.
This is (one reason) why some M113’s intermittently start, run for a while, and then stop.
If the engine has done more than 70K and/or is not new then replace the crankshaft sensor straight away - even if it has not showed any problematic signs - whilst you do all the other stuff.
That way your engine will have a better chance of always starting/stopping reliably; rather than intermittently - as can be the case with many M113 OEM crankshaft sensors.
*Part 4 - M113 Fuel Rails*
Sometimes the fuel injection pressure/system on the M113 is less than spectacular. Although it is not as common as some of the other issues I mention herein, issues related to the fuel injection system can - in extreme cases - cause one cylinder to receive less fuel than the others; which, in turn can then (quite counterintuitively) lead to detonation/explosions.
New fuel rails (all equalized) and a better pump are usually the way to go.
*M113 Engine Scavenge Pump Bearings and O-Rings*
Now we’re getting into the really outrageous/serious stuff.
You can easily destroy your M113 by having an o-ring installed in between the scavenge pipe line and pump housing (within the sump) that has hardened, is crumbling, and/or of the wrong composition.
The real issues are; (i) how would you know what o-ring you had when these components are buried down deep in the sump with some other very curious features that do very little to lengthen the lifespan of the M113; (ii) WTF is a rubber/composite seal doing in between where the main scavenge line mates with the main pump anyway; and last but not least (iii) why is there no strainer on the main scavenger oil pump.
*OK the answer to Engine Scavenge Pump Bearings and O-Rings Point (i)* is as follows; most owners that don’t work for Mercedes Benz and/or AMG will not know unless they ripped the engine apart and/or experienced a catastrophic failure because the o-ring in question (that is installed between the scavenge pipe line and main oil pump’s housing in the sump) is put there from the factory.
Yep, that’s right, the o-ring that is installed in between the scavenge pipe line and pump housing from the factory; and therefore (anyone that designs and/or tears down a few old M113’s will attest to the fact that) it is a common and unnecessary problem (specific to M113’s) that often spins crank-train bearings; starves the top end of the engine from oil; and/or causes other catastrophic problems that include throwing a rod through the block and/or sump.
Well then, since (by way of AMG accountants {read; not as a result of AMG powertrain engineers}) there is an (albeit unnecessary) o-ring installed by the factory between the M113’s scavenge pipe line and the main pump housing one might think it would be made of the correct composition - so it does not harden from all the heat cycles.
Nope - there is no such thing fitted to most M113’s that leave the factory powering a Mercedes Benz.
What that means is that all the OEM factory fitted o-rings that reside between the M113’s scavenge pipe line and pump housing are made from a questionable composition that is not reliable and/or durable (there's a difference between reliable and durable) within the context of 150K worth of heat cycles
And, if only that were the end of the problems perhaps we would then smile/laugh.
*OK the answer to Engine Scavenge Pump Bearings and O-Rings Point (ii)* is as follows . . .
Unfortunately the fact remains that (from a powertrain design perspective) there actually is NO REQUIREMENT whatsoever for any o-ring to exist and/or be installed between the scavenge pipe line and pump housing.
So, now we have poor quality OEM rubber seals in critical places (of the M113) where no such seal is required.
The reason there is absolutely no need for a rubber seal where the main scavenge line mates with the main pump is because the entire assembly can easily be made as 1 piece.
Had a E63S of the last Model year with the M157 and loved it; with a very mild tune I ran mid 11’s around 125mph. The problem with the car was the transmission which was weak and the car would not launch well, proven by the 125 trap speed which would typically give an ET closer to 11 flat
U could have fixed that issue with a tcu tune. Eurocharged, renntech, and one other company all offer one. Would have chances the launch and acceleration and. Throttle response drastically
@@shelbyhaiketic4212 also went into the same problem. Could u specify more?
Lol that’s because it has torque reduction in the lower gears to save the trans. What do you expect in a heavy ass car with AWD that makes tons of power, and has to maintain a level of reliability? You can feel the boost coming in in the higher gears
It’s not that the transmission that is weak. The transmission can handle 900 ft lb of tq stock. How is that weak? It’s the transmission computers that is limiting the torque output at lower gears. By getting a transmission flash you are risking damaging the transmission because the tune removes all the safety precautions the stock tcu has put in place. Imagine having close to 900 ft lb of tq and getting a tcu tune just to damage your transmission just to shave .2 tenths of secs. off of your 1/4 mile time.
I was waiting for this video! Glad to know my '17 CLS 63 S wont blow up and it's the last iteration of the M157!
2011 s 63 amg catless downpipes and tune man nothing beats that engine and the feel
I know this is an old video but my E63s with the M157 will be here Friday. Moving up from the CLS55 which I love, but the mileage is soo high (234k+)so I need to put it down for a bit. Looking forward to having some awd fun now
Loved my 05 E55 and now 16 E63S. AMG FTW!
I feel like MB overdid themselves with this M157 5.5L Biturbo V8. Even their Super cars like the AMG GT get the 4.0 L Bi turbo - The 5.5L is simply superior and reliable engine that sounds great. Its incredible.
M113K is my favorite engine. Never lacks torque.
M113 is turd like compared to these
@@robcarlson7845 Maybe so. I've had them both. But the M113k is still my favorite.
It really isnt Its reliable as hell. Bolt ons past 700HP or whipple supercharger past 850HP. @@robcarlson7845Id say the biggest loss is the turtle of a transmission. Thats probably where M157 cars shine
M157 is & M278 are one of the last & best sounding AMG ever made. You will not regret owning CLS63s 2014-2017👌🏻🔥⚔️🛡️🇩🇪😁. Legendary modern beast.
How is the reability
Great technical vodeo about m157. I was looking for one like this. Thank you
This is a love or hate engine. If you see some videos from Tasos Moschatos you'll see this engine is very weak. Eventhough I really love it because of the sound it makes and the magnificent powerplant it is.There are people making over 1000hp with these engines but of course you need to take care of some parts before reaching those numbers. Rods, chain tensioners, cam adjusters, etc.
Love this m157 engine. It sounds much better than that m177 4.0 crap
Great vid as always. I went from an M156 (‘09 E63) to an M157 (‘16 CLS63) and I love both engines, but I’d still take a 600hp M156 any day.
But did you tune the m157?
Got a gl63 with a tune..im doing 660hp...i love smoking cars from the dig
@@Phuong_Nguyen_ Uber driver t-boned the car before I could. Now I have an E63S with an M177 and ECU/TCU/CPC tune that’s actually insane.
@@CylinderHeadE60 so which engine is your favorite?
@@Phuong_Nguyen_ M156 sounds the best and is just legendary, M157 is a great mix of sound and power but the turbo lag is bad, M177 is easily the worst sounding but the power is incredible and doesn’t stop. Just depends on what you want. It’s definitely hilarious daily driving a 750hp sedan.
We just bought a 2015 mercedes benz GL63 amg. The SUV is so smooth and powerful by a flick of a switch. Now we just replace the radio front and rear rotors pads and sensors. Good thing that we still have the warranty son they are paying for that. But once we get it back, the eurocharge tune will be installed, so it will be more powerful and fun. Love our SUV. My wife is really happy with her car.
I love my m276 biturbo. 515 hp & 525 torque thanks to EUROCHARGED tune. 0 to 60 in 3.3 seconds! GLC43!
I love mine in my cls63 s model. I have had 113 and 156 but to me the reponsivness of how quickly torque is delivered with this engine puts this engine in its own class. Before the tune the engine was delivering 600 horse, which is very nice but the torque this engine delivers is insanity, even at stock.. With the tune I'm in around 730 and 840 ft#trq which is way fun, and the engine adapts nicely to standardized, reputable tune solutions.. Unlike the troubles I had with the 113. Very quick and with solid performance. Amg only improved this engine and picking one up after 2014 is a good add to your collection.
just a tune brought you up to 730 and 840? wow
@Bliz - Tune and the diverter-blow off which the blow off maybe 10-15 horse
I’m torn between m156 and m157 for my next car. Any advice?
@@scottmitchell9856Sorry but you’re not at those numbers with just a tune and blow off. My m157 is stage 2, catless down pipes, .22 gap colder plugs, black boost box. I’m making 744 hp and 831 tq crank. Who’s your car tuned by?
@@talkditingsdem5799 How safe is the wiestec tune on this engine? I’m thinking of buying a 2012 cls63, that’s wiestec tuned with upgraded filter and older plugs.
I thought this engine was a reliable engine until I saw Tasos' videos. He shows how 4 Matic (which is the only E63s we get in NA) versions bend connecting rods even in stock cars. When that happens, the cylinder walls get ruined. The cylinder wall cover is very soft in M157. I think anybody who's see Tasos' videos trusts his words.
Cylinder walls are indeed soft like butter.
Is it really that bad m157 ? I was considering buying one ,now I don't know
@@dg1738 it’s a hit or miss. But asides from cylinder wall scoring there are other issues. If you have money, skip m157 and get yourself an AMG with m177.
@@ELWIN225 thanks i may look at audi s8 d4
My favourite AMGs: W218 CLS63, first gen GLE63 Coupe and S63 Coupe. All with M157 engines！
I've had my car for a little over a year, so not long. Only issues I've had with it is the one's I caused. Tuned it and Coils/Plugs went out otherwise I haven't had any other issues with it. Mine is a 2013 with 58k miles bought and now I have close to 70k.
Phuong Nguyen I changed the plugs unfortunately 3 times before figuring out it was coils. The plugs from what i know was not indexed. When the first time I changed it with Brisk Plugs they told me its not needed with there plugs. The second time was NGK's and third was the factory plugs just gapped at .024. Thats what I have now and been driving on for a few months. It does miss or have slight hick up here and there still bit hardly noticeable . Im doing 1 step colder soon and bought them from VRPSpeed. Will see how those pan out.
Phuong Nguyen Thats atleast what a Brisk salesperson said. There are others who say you must index but this time Im taking it to a Merc Dealer and just have them do it. I got no part numbers for the ngk just bought it off vrp and on vrp site they dont post the part# either. Just says one step colder.
ya your right this is the 4th time and hopefully the last time. Hopefully it will run better.
That's why I went stock as well, the forums. Some also say just use the stock gap as well. I gapped mine .024. I don't know I wish tunes weren't expensive but going from tune to tune is costly. The 2nd time wih the NGK I went with what my mechanic looked up on his computer and suggested that particular plug. Its a long story with my plug issues but that NGK plug was not as wide so the boot would not fit on it properly meaning tight enough. I ended up running that plug for a couple of weeks till I changed them.
I did DTK and now im running Matt HD Tunning. He eventually meaning Matt dyno tuned it at Lang Racing Development. Both tunes felt great, decent amount of torque. Both tunes pulled about the same power just that Matts tune although not perfect and I cant blame it on him or anyone else could still be a plug issue or another but he's tune runs a lot smoother. Very minor hick ups. My 2007 E550 Has O.E Tune. There a reputable company as well never had an issue with them.
Thank you so much for this excellent video. I am considering a 2013 CLS63 and this video was super helpful.
Good video! Would love to see a M177 overview!
This video was the one of the most informative videos I have ever watched. I have also solved an issue with my ECI having traces of oil in it by watching this video. Awesome Video!!!!!!!!!!!
Still one of my dream engines... Let's hope they heavily depreciate fast😄... Really really good review! All the tech data and experiences packed into a vid that doesn't put you to sleep!
Awesome engines
Great engine
Ain’t this the mass effect song for the intro? Hehe, SHEPPPAAAARRRRRD
Awesome 👏 video review on the M157. I really love your channel.
4:30 theres that beautiful track again, one of the things that got me hooked on your channel lol
Jawad Karim i still cant find it
ALWAYS LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!!!
Very valuable information, This means a reliable engine after 2017, especially the GLE 63S coupe.
Can you make a M156 vs. M157 video? Deciding between the two, love your vids!
Good content AMGmeister!!! How would you rate the M157 against bimmers inline 6 s58. Reason I asked I'm looking to get either a 15-16 amg wagon or a 2020 X3m competition. I test drove to bimmer but yet to have test driven the wagon. I feel like just based on research the wagon is a little more spacious and practical from an interior standpoint, but I do like the ground clearance of the bimmer. Plus, I'm in Atlanta, GA where Mercedes Benz stadium is located. What better to pull up at an event at the Benz in Benz!!!! Any thoughts would gladly be appreciated!!!
Excellent Video Meister! Can you do a Video on the CL550 engines including the AMG models from 2007 to 2014 I would like to purchase on but want to know what years to stay away from.
I love my 05 E55 but I always wanted a SL65, or E63
You missed one problem. Cylinder 5 misfire caused by improper valve seat. I was a dealer tech for 4 years and we saw this quite a bit. Not sure if it was because we had a high concentration of 157 or 278 engines in our area, but it affected both. I cant tell you if it was earlier or later models. I never paid attention enough.
What was your most common method to fix the issue? I have a miss on cyl 5 only while motor is cold. Passed Como tests but failed leak down though intake valves. Again only while cold.
I have cylinder 6 misfire but comes up as ingniton coils gunna swap and see
You're staaaar, keep up buddy,kaizer from Johannesburg.
I HAVE A CL63 2011 I BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO THANK YOU!!
How are you enjoying it?
@@DrOCkABlEs I'm actually selling mines wanna buy it?
@@kobejordan_T.O.N.Y why did you sell it after 2 month bro?
@@Enzoxvx huh?
Will be my next AMG , 2012-14 E63 or E63s
I made it happen!! 2012 S63 AMG I bought it yesterday
@@samspace81 how is it i want to buy the cls 63 amg but im afraid off engine problems.
Its been great ive logged nearly 40,000 miles this year alone.@anderswissleson8439
3:48 that dolomite brown e63 wagon thoooooo ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Edit: Designo mystic Brown
It's actually Designo Mystic Brown
It definitely is, whoops! Thank you for correcting me man, enjoy all of your vids!
Awesome video bro
Brilliant video again! Love your channel, keep up the good work!
I didn't know that's what my carbon fiber engine cover meant on my 2016 E63S. Thanks for the info 👍
Can you please do a video of of the 4.7 biturbo engine in the e550?
The M157 is a torque monster , it makes my large heavy and luxurious S63 act like a sports car when needed, experiencing the best of both worlds in one package, who can ask for more :)
my thoughts exactly
What year is your s63?
@@jmitch2550 2011
@@gusf8451 How many miles ?
@@dirtydan6343 just under 75K
Had an M157 Engine in the Shop 2 weeks ago. The engine had 90.000 km on it and the chain snapped. This is a serious quality problem. Thankfully nothing got damaged.
Dont lie with your pokemon picture and your gaming videos!!!
Just dream on duuwed!!!
high5compliments Video can be seen on „Stern Garage“ lol
Awesome engines. Pulls relentlessly. BTW, in the description, it says, "the *the* issues with the M157."
I've owned a few AMG's including the M156, M157 & M177 (in my newer c63s) - this engine was awesome, I must say the M156 is a nicer engine to have fun with BUT this thing sounds great, nice turbo sound, deep throaty burble... possibly sounds better than the M177 and the M177 has all the fancy variable exhaust.
I HAVE M157 :D
@@datura_boof they’re great right :)
@@thatmatty231guy m156 more fun? But slower than the m157 right? What was fun about it?
@@Phuong_Nguyen_ Yeah - the M156 just has a quick revving, more vibrant feel, like a race engine. The M157 is more powerful & torque than the 156 but more tame I guess and slightly less exciting - they're probably equally great in their own right, just very different feeling.
@@thatmatty231guy interesting. Never driven a m156. But I have an m278 e550 coupe which is the little brother of the m157. And the e coupe is lightweight like a c63. Im also Eurocharged tuned downpipes and intake and the thing is a torque monster and very good on gas too. But yes it is a slower revving engine. But dollar for dollar it can’t be beat.
Awesome! I just bought a E500 Coupe with the M278. What a magnificent engine even in the non AMG version. Also id like to know what exactly the difference between the M278 and the M157 are besides the higher displacement of course. Also you should have mentioned Brabus. We took this engine and made a 6.0 liter version with 850hp out of it. It sold really well.
Surprisingly, there is not that much difference between the M278 and the M157 other than the increase in displacement. The other main difference is that the m278 has smaller turbos with only up to 13 psi boost.
Phuong Nguyen I think they are pretty much identical. We put 500hp in these cars.
Phuong Nguyen I know that. But I mean the base structure of the engine. What about the cylinder heads? The parts around the engine? I think it’s pretty much identical. I know this engine quite well. Like I said we sold so many of these in the 6.0 liter version. Brutal machine.
Phuong Nguyen Did you even read my last comment bro? Wow...
@@AMGmeister The M278 Motor is a 4.7l v8
1:22 where is this "diamond-like carbon coating" information from? can't find it anywhere....
Reliable enough for me..I’ll take it
great channel, like the content. Keep it up!
very nice video, im sure u have seen tasos machastos videos on these rebuilds...also informative
Thanks for many informations issues !
Hello thankyou for good and helpful video always. Is there anyway you can make video of W218 buy guide? I’m interested to get an cls63 with m157😊
Thank you for the review of this engine.
Question: what is the benefits of having bucket tappet valve lifters just a curious question?
A more direct camshaft-valve connection. This helped the M156 rev to 7200rpms even though it is a huge 6.2 V8 engine.
@@FaizAlshehri however the wear and tear on the camshafts are a down side. Roller bearings imo are the best and that is what the m159 engine uses which is a direct upgrade to the m156
Great video.Thank's
Good job as usual ...one request or tip ,, ,,could you give power and torque figures in kW and Nm as well please...many countries don't use horsepower and ft.lbs. Thanks..
Lb-ft, not ft lbs. our tuning shops use incorrect reversed verbage.
The 6.2, which in my opinion sounds the best in the W211 E63 and the CLS of the same year, is my favourite. Don't need exhaust tuning cause stock it sound good enough... Tuning the exhaust makes it too loud and noisy instead of a nice sound.
The second place is shared by the M113K and the M157. Both torque monsters and like the sound of both of them. And again, stock. No exhaust tuning.
My least favourite is the new 4.0 hot V engine.
My c63 w204 had stock exhaust for a year or so, then secondary cat delete, then went for iPE headers with race cats. The headers were very antisocial on start up but when cruising were as silent as stock, but when you opened it up the sound was absolutely incredible. Not over the top or ruined, genuinely very exotic and I would defo recommend anyone to get the headers who want to really enjoy the car. The stock exhaust doesn’t compare; however compared to a lot of cars today it does sound great.
48:20 Andrew nailed it
They did do a e550 model with the 4.7 twin turbo
I’ve been waiting for this engine, thx
Was that e class at the end a Designo spec I can't never find a 14-16 benz with Carmel interior unless Designo 7:55
Was thinking about getting on of these but cls63. The thing is every m157 tasos moschatos looks at has bent connecting rods so it’s kind of discouraging
Very informative as usual! I notice the block has open-deck design but many performance-oriented engines as far as I know would be closed-deck. Is this one of the main weakness of the m157? Is it a cost-cutting measure or they did this to achieve some other purposes? I believe the new m177 went back to closed-deck design though. I'd be glad to see a comparison video between these two!
Open deck may be better for cooling but it's also a weak point.
The M157 also has very soft cylinder walls.
This means if you ever want to use forged internals, you will need to resleeeve the block other wise the harder metal of the forged internals will eat through the cylinders.
To me it's an obvious cost cutting measure by Mercedes.
For massive power with reliability you can't go past an LS engine. It's just a more robust design.
Stock LS3 engines can take 800hp all day.
They tear themselves apart at 1000hp though when tested.
@@mrmysterious6006 Thanks for sharing this! The LS series is definitely the better option for making insane power as many would agree. I really think this Merc engine was born at a time when Daimler focused more on cost-saving than quality. The later M177 is by far a better design apparently.
I dont know if the amg version got better coolant lines for the turbos but the regular M278 had plastic garbage ones that broke if you looked at them the wrong way, and they suck to replace.
Did the performance pack go over to the GL 63 if anyone knows. 😊
I’m getting P0299 Boose Pressure is too low, any idea? It’s intermediate and at a specific rpm, around 3500-4500, it tends to trigger the code.
Looking to replace my f82 m4 comp for a 2018 gle63s would you say the later year car like a 2018 would be a good daily driver? It has 58k miles but good service records
Been waiting for this. I have this in my G63
Did the M157 AMG engine have bore score issues like the M278?
I love those engine guides. I would love to see a guide like this on the new inline 6 mild hybrid AMG and the 4 liter V8. They are probably too new that problems are apparent already. However in a few years you should to a guide on those engines.
Great content! Can you review the M276 engine, especially in AMG tune as used on C43?
so should I still buy a 2014 ml 63 at 70k miles based in canada?
Which the best used AMG to buy on a budget and would be relatively trouble free? Thank you for your videos, they are very informative in a way us mortals can understand.
Nice video man! Are you planning to make one on the m177 engine as well?
My cls63 has a carbon fiber engine cover but no red calipers?
great video!
Can you do a video on the (m278 4.7 v8) that the m157 is based on ....for the 500 and 550 boys
You're mistaken about the cam sensor dude. The seal isn't the issue but rather the oil permeates through the plastic sensor and gets into the wire harness.
I hope you read and respond to this. Is it true M157 does not have factory blow off/diverter valves? Renntech and Weistec sell aftermarket and say it doesn't. If that's true. The turbos were made to eventually fail.
I've been wanting a CLS55 AMG, but they're just too old. I've looked at the CLS63 AMG biturbo, but that's a bit out if my price range. Now I'm looking at the CLS550 4matic. We'll see. 🤷🏿♂️
I got a 2013 Cls 550 with 100k miles, one owner, only dealership maintained from 3k miles to 97k miles. I got that for $16k
@@GonzalezEzekiel really good deal! Would've taken it too.
Cool how AMG up the HP from the M156. But still love my M156. @t and @t
Hey AMGMeister. Did the M278 also receive updated timing in 2014? Or was only the M157 improved?
Yes both
Didnt the early 2011s had also head bolt issues? Serious question im new to this engines
There was a certain serial number that you need to look for in the M156 engines that the head bolt issue was corrected. Any engine after that # was ok. Also the 2011 had the N.A. engine. No turbos.
@@ericswires8534 thanks for the info
I am looking for a 2013/2014 GL 63 AMG with the M157 engine. How do I check which chain it has? And on what mileage/km do you normally replace the chain?
Have a question for Maestro. If we get to buy a sat M157 for ten years from 2012. What would you recommend us to do if we buy the car? Do I change the timing chain or wait for ECL or engine codes to light up? I guess what I'm asking is if the symptom would show before major damage or it's going to go to complete failure all of a sudden ? Any feedback will be appreciated. Thank you
askst motoren zimmer !
You didn’t mention the naturally aspirated version of this motor! Used for a few years in the aptly named SLC55. Always thought it would have made a fantastic base motor for the AMG GT.
Do the ML, Gl, and G classes have the MCT transmissions as well?
Beside the displacement what is significantly different from m157 compared to the m278?
I'm in the market for a 63 AMG, should i go with the 6.2 M156 or the B1-turbo M157 either a S63 or CL 63 the C too small don't like small cars. Thanks
I love so much my black E55 AMG w211 tuned to 515 ps and 830 nm but I dream to have also an E63S AMG phase 2 with reprog something like 700 -800 ps and 1200 nm…😋
im thinking to buy 2016 cls 63
is the engine reliable like for daily use,and im thinking tu install downpipe with stage 1(light software)?
Great video! Is there anyway to get the photo you used for the intro??
Thank you for the informative video. One thing I disagree with though is when you say the m157 does not have as much character as the m156... I've driven both and in my opinion, the m156 is more track-focussed. It's rewarding but you need to work the revs hard to get the most out of it. It's surprising for such a large engine to have relatively low torque at low revs. With the m157, it feels like you are in cheat mode all the time because the car has such ridiculous levels of torque from ~1500rpm. The soundtrack is also second to none and sounds like you have stuffed a thunderstorm into your boot :D Everyone should try and drive an m157 at least once in their lives!
Will never ever sound as good as the m156
@@Alpinatom I have all 3 variation. 2 m156, 2 m157 and 1 m178 engine and all 3 engines has their own distinct sound. I wouldn't say that one sound better than the other just different and more of a preference thing. The m156 sound like an organic lions roar, especially on an open throttle. The m157 sound like a loud thunder clap on open throttle and have a deep bass sound while just cruising. I admit the m178 doesn't sound as unique as the other two, its more pops and burbles unnecessarily to be honest but sounds okay on full throttle.
@@talkditingsdem5799 m156 for pure natural exhaust sound. End of. The 156 has the best exhaust note out of all you have mentioned!!!
@@Alpinatom Also the m156 is the more fun to drive out of the 3 engines. The m157 and m178 will blow the doors off the m156 but the n/a v8 in those cars are a blast to drive.
@@talkditingsdem5799 your talking crap, blow no doors off, it's a newer developed engine, but it doesn't blow the N/A engine away at all. The the m156 loves to be revved. It gets angry when it's revved lol