Clocking Multiple Audio Interfaces with a Mastering Clock
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In this video David Gnozzi shows how to clock multiple interfaces for mix and mastering purposes.
How to connect BNC word clock 75ohms cables using T connectors and terminations.
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This kind of stuff is always super helpful. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for this, as always. I continue to appreciate your rec from a while back on MOTU interfaces and other products. Yes, the MOTU matrix makes almost anything possible!
Thanks David!
GOAT , always!
Perfect timing, I literally just got mine delivered and i am interested to see how other people are hooking it up and using it in their daw.
Suuuuuperb David sirrrrrr
Nice insight
this video is very intimidating!!!thanks
Oh? great video! Very useful.
Thank you
Another great video Dave! It will be lovely if you might continue from where you left in this one and proceed with explaining your signal chain while you mix hybrid. I really would like to learn about the idea behind having 4 interfaces hooked up (although you have mentioned it here, but I still would love to see it happening in action) and understand how you get the job done with all the analog gear you work with. Many thanks.
Is there a reason or difference/advantage to use those t-connectors versus daisy-chaining in-out -> in-out -> in-out ?
Cool vid David! You mentioned you had some problems with the Dangerous but you liked the sound, are you making a vid about that? I was thinking about buying it too because I saw you have it but now I'm waiting to hear what's up
Nice! Thank you cool subject. Curious to know more about what you think of the AD+
A video is coming
Best explainer video I have ever watch, thank you!!!!!
What did you find helpful?
@@ET2carbon Yes
@@linoeventual 💯 😂
durooooo
Amazing information,been trying to figure out if I could run it like this and I'm now ordering a t price and end cap .
I thank you good sir 🙌 absolute legend 🔥 super glad I found your page💪
You actually shouldn't daisy chain coaxial or even split the coaxial unless using an amplifier
@@ET2carbongreat information thanks brother 👌.
I'm running the antelope discreet 8 Synergy core as main Into a mastering rack and an extra rack mount 8 in and out..
Still need to get dB -25 to db25 connect to hook up the API lunchbox 500 tho have the dB 25on the antelope if you have any tips would greatly be appreciated my guy thanks again 👌
@@oztrekgelsoft8409 don't waste money on an audio manufacturer cabling. DB25 is like 45 years old. Direct connect. You can get it used really cheaply. I get all mine at the thrift store for a buck.
Cool video, I didn't know about the termination, what about those units that have a "thru" connection, can you avoid the T shaped connector?
Yes
It would be better to amplify the signal before you split it and after the split you should have an identically measured impedance and the same length cable after the split to your multiple units. If you're so concerned with exact synchrony
thanks for the video, exactly what I was looking for!!!! just a question, why do you use the connectors and not plug into the "clock in" and "clock out"? thanks
Because each unit has to receive the signal directly from the main clock, that's the purpose of having a master clock
So those dedicated clock units that have several outs, don’t really need all the outs if you’re using the T’s?
Hi,
Why not go from your dangerous WC out to the WC in of the Audiofuse 8 pre and then from the WC out of the Audiofuse 8 pre to the WC in of your motu and then from your Motu WC out to your second motu WC in ?
But do you use those T connectors ?
I would like to know the same thing... i've the T connector method today and It fails... I can't understand why... I will give the Daisy chain method now...
Why would you need a t connector on the last unit?
Hi Dave. Thanks for this vid. How does one connect with you in regards to more questions about getting multiple audio interfaces connected. I have basically different branded interfaces and I'd like to be able to use all of them like what you've displayed on this video. Hope to hear back from you . Thanks.
You can book a private lesson for your setup at bookinghfs@gmail.com
Question, my logic would of lead me to go from Interface 1 to interface 2, 3, and 4 via daisy chaining. Like I1 (Out) to I2 (In), I2 (Out) to I3 (In), I3 (Out) to I4 (In)
What would happen if you wired your connections that way? And why do you have to wire in that way?
Is it so they all receive the same signal from the masterclock rather than as a chain? Is the waterfall/chain signal flow how you run into clocking issues?
You answered your own question. The entire purpose of a master clock is to send the same signal to all the satellites, hence, it has to come from it, no daisy chaining
@@mixbustv Super appreciated man, definitely cleared the waters
At the end of the chain you can put a connector in the form of an elbow (female / male) and thus save a connector, right?
You'd still need a termination amzn.to/4aoitxi
Thank you! This is great! Now can you run 2 of those interfaces at the same time? For instance, say your Motu has only 12 channels (like mine does, I've got the Motu 192 BLA premium mod) and you need another 4 channels to track a live project with lots of drum mics, and do scratch tracks at the same time for the band. So you need 16 channels live, and you've got that Autoria interface as well. How can you run them at the same time to record the band with 16 analog channels? Run 2 computers and 1 interface per computer connected boss clocks? Or can you do it on 1 computer, within 1 instance of your DAW(just switched to Cubase 12 from Pro Tools, as it's subscription only for updates, and fuck that, too many subscriptions to worry about without a solid job as it is-restaurant/live club work so no real solid work since March.)?
I have, as described, 4 interfaces going a the same time, so yes obviously you can run multiple on one computer. My Motu's are no 12, one is 8, one is 16, another one is 8 and the mastering converter 2
thanx for sharing.. bt why didn't u use the the word clock in and out from the 2nd interface and so on r... why use that? i think yr interfaces has both ins and outs
Because the purpose of having a clock is that the master machine send the same exact signal to all the others, if you use that there goes the sync
@@mixbustv thanx ... it means that if we use same interfaces we can use the word clock ins nd outs or wat? no need to use the T connector???
An Apple OS you can create Aggregate Audio Device in Software.
Does this fact obviate the need to connect word clock on the hardware level when using Apple/Aggregate Audio Devices?
This is the actual question that should be addressed. Synchronous digital devices are actually a communications concept (I'm a retired telecom tech) . In audio devices it used to be important before the aggregates of PCI and HDX cards existed. After those became popular, the clock thing became more about the jitter concepts and triggering the converters for proper signal entry into the chips for the Nyquist process in PCM. We started using DSD methods and other compressions got into the mix. Clocking while still important, isn't as noticable as it once was, especially when the aggregate can utilize such high bandwidth in the throughput of our newer cabling systems. After IEEE 1394 and USB 3.0, the protocols reached a point along with processor's high accuracies that Apple was able to get multiple devices of various manufacturers to successfully and simultaneously interface with the outboard environment. If you're using something like Thunderbolt, you're pretty much good unless you're getting into DSD512 or 32bit 786KHz conversions..... Which is usually mastering level and not typically done in multitrack (beyond stereo) anyway. This is talking purely about bit errors in communications equipment though, not regarding sonic or HIFI chatacteristics.
One quations, what happens if you connect the master wordclock via BNC to the first slave word clock (IN BNC) and then a new BNC cable from the OUT wordclock to the next slave (slave 2) device? It works the same?
You completely defeat the purpose of having a master clock, as the whole point is so every satellite receive the signal directly from the master unit.
@@mixbustv totally understand now thanks!!!
Is there a reason or difference/advantage to use those t-connectors versus daisy-chaining in-out -> in-out -> in-out ?
The difference is the entire purpose of having a master clock which would be useless if you don't use the t-connectors. The point is to have one unit sending the same exact signal to all the units at the same time, if you daisy chain you completely defeat the purpose
Would love to know your opinion of the RME UFX Plus. It’s the newest model of the UFX series. Supposed to be fantastic. Also heard the preamps compared to an API, Daking, Sebatron, and one other and it sounded the best to my ears. The shootout video is on TH-cam. Thanks! My favorite channel by the way
The UFX+ is amazing in my opinion. I don't find the preamps anything to write home about tbh but they are clean and easy to use. It is a little limited in terms of its analogue i/o so depending on your set up or projected future set up, you will probably be factoring in another set of convertors. I got the Ferrofish P16MX to expand it because I got a great deal, though I will likely get an Orion 32+ to replace the FF in the future. RME Totalmix is also great but most importantly, RME's dedication to supporting their catalogue of hardware for as long as they do means you are making a secure investment for probably as long as you care to own the unit which at the end of the day, as a professional, is the reason I bought it.
@@greenenoiseaudio interesting. The preamps couldn’t really get any better, in my opinion, as far as transparent pres are concerned. I’d love to know what exactly you mean as far as the unit being “a little limited in terms of its analog I/O.” The I/O amount seems to be one of the units strengths. You are referring to the UFX Plus model, yes?
@@HollerAtcherBoi Well yeah that's it, they're transparent. It depends what else you have knocking about I guess and whether you already have that ground covered, which I did. So they were a little redundant for me, although nice to have if I need them I guess.
The I/O is a strength but other interfaces and converters have a higher analog I/O. By that I mean TRS and XLR. The Orion 32+ for example has 32 I/O immediately available to you via Dsubs, which you may already have before you buy the unit. That's why I mentioned that if you are buying it, you may already have or will have to consider how you are going to use the digital I/O. For example, I have a set of audient pres that I use over ADAT. That's a very economical unit anyway so not so bad. However if you are looking to use the UFX plus for more outboard and boutique pres you will probably have to figure in another set of converters to take advantage of the MADI I/O.
The Orion has a whole host of issues however, mostly stemming from reliability and support with Antelope releasing a new version every year basically. Rumours are this is improving but I can't take that risk and would only ever consider using it as a madi device into my RME. Ferrofish is a relatively cheap way into expanding IO though the conversion specs are just very, very slightly behind others. Still, needs must and I'll upgrade as I go.
@@greenenoiseaudio Great points. I’ve always wondered how exactly I could take advantage of the UFX MADI option. So I would need a separate converter in order to do that? Right now I have my UFX plus along with the Cranborne ADAT 500, with 2 Cranborne Camden 500 preamps. I’m looking to fill the chassis with 6 more preamps (3 pairs). Debating if I want to get another Cranborne in a year or 2 and fill that up with some more 500 series pres for diff flavors/colors and a few other goodies for mixbus. My goal as of now is to get most of my analog juice during tracking and then mix mostly in the box.
@@HollerAtcherBoi Yes. Unless you have a set of pres that connected via MADI or if the likes of Cranborne released a MADI version of their chassis.
Well that's the thing, it all depends on your needs. I need that on the way in too but I knew that over time I was going to be investing in more convertors to accommodate my outboard workflow. That's the beauty though, you can expand as your needs do. Plus you get to remain in Totalmix which honestly I wouldn't trade for any alternative. I know a digital mixer can be neither here nor there and it's what you're used to but it's so easy and so flexible and RME are so damn reliable that I have zero plans to change within the next decade.
Hii, My Motu UltraliteMK5 does not have world clock in and out but it has optical in and out. If I connect another interface and match the bit rate of both and make MOTU MK as my Master Interface. Will it work?
Nope
@@mixbustv what would be the best solition for it then?
Thanks. I didn't realise you could do this. I assumed it would mess with the impedence. Anyway, I thought you should get a Drawmer D-clock free of charge - I think they owe you one!
A master clock makes sense if you don't have a great master clock unit already, in my case, the ad+ is arguably top 5 on the market. But I'll take the Drawmer if they send 😄 as for the impedance, no, it's standard 75ohm, not that much to it
First yeaaah
Some electronics... Do not use terminated cables or you will attenuate the clock signal. If the anplitude is below 2.7-2.9VDC some of the units might not sync due to crap design. Have unterminated wires and the 75ohm load at the last T connector exit to kill reflections.
Hi dave, I have a question for you. Do you find that more gear create more problem and slow your process sometimes ? Thanks a lot for this info it was great keep the videos coming ! THANK YOU !!
Oh no, at this point in my career/setup everything is for the most part aimed at making my workflow better, faster, easier, because I already have the "sound", more than enough. So if it doesn't make it easier and faster, it's not gonna be there.
@@mixbustv ok cool then! I myself find that more gear can cause some issues sometimes but my setup is not optimized like yours really.. THANKS and PEACE ✌️
We were able to say f-u protools 😄
All t connectors, cables and the terminator must be 75ohms right? I cant understand why my de interfaces are not seeing the master clock...
Most likely menu and settings related
You’re going to love that clock, I never believed in clocking until I heard the AD+ . Amazing
unfortunately these units seem to have a problem
what do you think about the orion interfaces by antelope?
Not at fan, and heard several horror stories from people having many problems with them
@@mixbustv I've heard good things about their clocking and conversion and am considering buying. Horror stories does not sound good though.. do you recall any details?
Wouldn't there be a problem that there was a clock loss error by the adapters?
Why? Clock either works or doesn't and when it doesn't it's pretty obvious but you you think there would be a problem? it has been done this way for a long time
cubase rules !
Is this a good idea? I always use star clocking but never tried t junction method, will it introduce "latency" in clocking by the time you reach the last converter?
Not sure what do you mean with "is this a good idea" this IS how you clock multiple interfaces when you have a master clock, is not A method is the method.
@@mixbustv i have big ben with multiple wordclock outs, and i use each out to feed my other converters, serves me fine, other clock manufacturers like grimm audio doesnt recommend t junction, thats why i asked you, is it working for you?
And i beg to differ, there are other ways to clock than t junction, otherwise antelope and apogee wont make multiple word clock out for clock distribution, cheers :)
@@Studioomrey Those are the words of someone who already spent the money. Bigben is an outdated unit They make em to make money not to do anyone's a favor
@@mixbustv i see, so how's the setup is working for you? because i saw your reply to other posters, you said that the units seem to have problem, is it clock related? i'm trying to get rid of my clock rigs, as you've stated, outdated unit :)
thank you for the answers, i really appreciate it
@@Studioomrey yes it’s outdated but with the right kit which isn’t particularly expensive now, it works really well in the right environment. I keep my set up simple with a standalone Art Sync gen clocking a Yamaha 02R, two Motu 828 mk2’s running 16 channels of 44.1k digital via ADAT optical to FireWire and an Akai S5000 as well as analogue gear and it all works perfectly with amazing sound :)
Sometimes old kit can work really very well and is reasonably cheap…
Where can I find the T?
Amazon
Why does the last unit need a T with termination rather than just plugging in the cable?
Because you need the termination connector showed to close the circuit, that's what you do when you're using a master clock
Because Arnold is pretty strong and he will stop the jitters from happening
why not use the WC out and daisy chain all units?
Because that's not out you do it when you want to use a masterclock
if you have some units thats ok but when I increase units in the chain that was generating problems, I undertand about use the adaptor but I am clear that us not for a lot lf units as my set.
Why not buy a master convertor with multiple WC Inputs???? @MixbusTV
Do you mean a master clock? Useless, the AD+ is one of the best master clocks out there, like many mastering grade converters
@@mixbustv Better than the Lavry Gold or Antelope 10MX?
@@mixbustv All converters have WC capabilities; research the S/N for the best results 😉
@@MadACeTeeMack S\N has very little to do with converters.
Hello! AD+ clock master or Lynx Hilo ? :)
Not even in the same ballparks. AD+ all day
@@mixbustv Gonna try that :)
When you clip your AD+ do you use some limiter in the daw after?
@@MR_Cellarpop it depends on the song
Doc I was doing that with more and is not good enough, my suggestion is get used bigben by 300 bucks and that is the best idea, I was doing that with 5 interfases, and is not 100% confident becareful, I felt the winner but un my mix I was listening something weird.
You realize my master converter is light years superior to the old bigben right?
@@mixbustv yes but the idea is use the big ben receiving clock signal from your converter them send to the rest of your devices, that works better than adapters...
@@ladanzza And do you realize that is exactly the same thing?
I am using my RME ADI 2 pro to send the clock signal to the big ben and this works as a distributor... good luck.
@@mixbustv I didn't have problems anymore after change, that was my result.
No Protools HD???
Pro Tools HD is just a software, if you don't have the Avid hardware the limit is 32 tracks. Also you can't combine interfaces, if you have an 8 channels Avid for example, you can't add an 8 channel MOTU or any other brand, you need another Avid. You want 32ch? They need to be all Avid, and so on. The software (HD) is the same, is just purposely limited to 32 I/O
@@mixbustv I know Protools HD is a software but the Avid hardware is crucial for the software; you can always stack additional I/O or at least I thought. I took a Protools HD course years ago when I used to work for Guitar Center; This was back in 2006 though. I installed the earlier $10k HD hardware and I/O integrated into the old GMacs
@@mixbustv I see you must have everything together and not separately dedicated such as a dedicated Production/Mixing/Mastering studio set up.
@@MadACeTeeMack no it's not crucial by any stretch of imagination sorry, and it's usually overpriced for the quality it delivers.
@@mixbustv I agree, severely overpriced
CC2 OR CC1 GRIMM external clock ;)
I don't really see the need of an external clock (especially when you have a unit like the AD+ as master). I've never heard any convincing tests that would justify an expense like that
I'm shocked you have not upgraded to a Orion 32 gen 3 yet. 32 analog channels in one rack space. You obviously would not have to run all these clock cable. You would free up 2 rack spaces and you would not need a patchbay. I have all my gear hardwired into the orion and I patch with the routing matrix. The clock is better than the motu's. And from my ears the conversion sounds better. I previously had the motu 828es. It was a nice interface. One of the things I didn't like about the motu though was it just felt cheap. I bought that 16a, took it out of the box and didn't even rack it up. I sent it right back and bought the Orion.
The clock is irrelevant if you only have 1 interface, you can't tell a clock is better than another if you're not clocking another unit with it. But I'm using my AD+ as clock with is far superior to basically 99% of everything out there.
As for the converters, I tried antelope stuff, I don't find them better than motu, also have heard many horror stories about problems with the units and bad customer support. I mix for a living, I'm not doing anything that's not tested and proven on the field for years.
@@mixbustv most of what you hear is user error. Ive never had an issue. The dangerous clock is killer yes. I agree. When I said better, maybe thats subjective but the antelope clocks are known for being very good. As for customer service its amazing. The routing was hard for me to wrap my head around. I got someone on phone numerous times between 10pm and 1am pac time. They did remote view on my screen every time and showed me how to use the software. So I'm not sure why anyone would say that. But you never know I guess.
You actually should not T off your COAXIAL like this. I used to do that but it's not the "right" correct way. You should use a distribution amplifier before the split. And daisy chaining the word clock isn't a good way to champion the idea of proper synchrony.
'Til i wont see a scheme of your studio i won' t understand anything . And it gets worse and worse .One day i m gone ask Universal Audio because i would like to expand my inputs analog without buying another UAD interface ( less expansive one , a MOTU will be perfect ;) ) And one day i will come to Protools too so i m interested in what you are doing.
The scheme of my studio won't be of any help to you if you don't have the same setup I have
@@mixbustv oK ! I have a question about the DB-25 connection . Can we send an analog sound in it or it is only for data ? Thank you
@@relaxmax6808 yes you can
Shocked to see you use MOTU audio interfaces. I used MOTU in the past and they don't sound that great. They are ok for musicians starting out but certainly not pro studio grade converters. This is just my opinion. :)
😂 ok
All your converters are not good, there doesn’t bring either clock Nothing
Lol sure
I would use a standalone master clock if you can. Much better than the Motu clock and I’ve got two Motu 828 mk2’s, yamaha 02r and Akai S5000 all clocked from a stand-alone master. Sounds amazing.
My system is clocked with a dangerous AD+