Professional & hobbyist in electronics for many years, here's my tips: 1. Buy a decent soldering iron (i.e. JBC) and chuck out those Yihua stations. With a good iron with enough power behind it you should rarely need to adjust the temperature from SMD up to large THP. 2. Use a decent brandname multicore solder. 3. Don't use a wet sponge to wipe off your tip, you'll just promote oxidization. Use a scourer type thing to clean your tip but sparingly. Don't wip off your tip when you finish a joint, only wipe it off when you are about to start a new joint. This leaves the old flux/solder on the tip when you are not using it and helps avoid oxidization. You want to avoid the tip being left 'bare' when it's hot. 4. Don't use conical tips except for special work, use a small chisel tip for most stuff. A chisel tip offers better heat transfer.
Thanks Ian. I really appreciate that. I bow to experience having only really tinkered with soldering over the last 18 months or so. I get what you're saying about Yihua and the cheaper brands. I don't have the experience of using the more expensive stuff, so no doubt you are right about the better performance. But it's just at a budget I can afford. Until I had issues creeping in, I was genuinely really pleased with how it worked. I'm hoping I've bottomed most of the issues by a bit of self education and support from comments like yourself. I've been the same with solder. I've just gone cheap and hoped for the best without experiencing what the good stuff is like. But unlike replacing with a Hakko, I can budget for some good solder wire. Interesting what you say about the wet sponge too. I'm certainly not arguing the point, but for whatever I have found the wet sponge to make it so much easier to clean the tip. What I definitely need to do is make sure there's solder on the tip between joints and to clean it only at the point of being ready to do the next. That makes a lot of sense. I'll try discipline myself here to make sure I remember 😊. I'm just glad I'm back to the point where I enjoy soldering again, as it had started to become a bit of a grind with all the issues that were catching up with me. Thanks for your support and taking the time to help 😊
@@RetroComputingReboot I guess just remember that flux is your friend, i.e. you won't get much heat flow without it, so sometimes you would 'wet' the iron tip and your target before soldering proper. It's too easy to think it's a heat issue when in reality it's a simple heat transfer issue. Have fun!.
@@RetroComputingReboot I should mention also that soldering old/vintage Pcb's can often be a challenge for anyone.......sometimes there's no choice but to remove all solder from a joint when heat transfer/wetting just won't happen. Contaminated solder is a pain!
@IanScottJohnston Thanks Ian. Really appreciate the support 👍. I should be embarking on part 2 of my new Speccy build tomorrow so hopefully I've learned something 😁
Hi Simon, I also suffered from quickly oxidizing tips until I learned the secret! Never let your iron cool with a clean tip. Always clean the tip whilst hot, re-tin with fresh solder and then turn the iron of immediately. Leaving some fresh solder on the tip protects it from oxidizing whilst not in use. Also, use decent quality 60/40 solder with a good flux ratio. You can still get good multicore 60/40 in the UK from CPC. Hope that helps you or someone! Looking forward to the zx spectrum build videos. I did an A500+ recently and also quite fancy doing a speccy as I owned both machines as a kid.
Thanks Neil. I appreciate the support 😊 I'm definitely going to up my game with the solder. The cheap stuff is fine I guess but can't help but believe some good quality stuff will be a big improvement. As always, it's learning where best to spend your budget
I've been soldering since the late 1960's for both hobby and work. It looks like you figured out most of your issues and have a grasp on them. Also useful to have both tip cleaning methods available for best results and should always have some solder on the tip to help keep it in good condition even when not soldering. One thing I would suggest is to not use 60/40 solder, but to use a good Sn63 (63/37) flux core solder (I use Kester here in the states). It is eutectic which means it has the lowest melting point of any tin/lead solder and has little if any plastic stage (goes directly from liquid to solid) for less risk of cold solder joints. Good luck with your projects.
Hi there. Thanks for taking the time to comment 😊. I agree, I need to move away from the cheap solder. I think it certainly doesn't help me. I'll add your recommendation to the stuff to have a try with. Thanks again!
@@RetroComputingReboot I watch another channel where the guy uses Chinese solder. Some of it is OK. I use Kester 44. I got a lifetime supply of it when I worked at a board assembly house. When we switched to water soluble the boss gave me all the stock of solder we had on hand.
@@RetroComputingReboot I would just to see if it is an issue. What I'm seeing is your iron tips aren't wetting. When you first run a new tip you have to jump on it with solder. They come tinned from the factory but not really wetted. So when you fire a new tip up you have to feed it solder and get that solder on the tip as fast as you can. Otherwise what happens is they end up like those black tips that you got. Sometimes an iron tip will only have a little wet spot to it. The rest of the tip will be all oxidized. But you work with that one good wet spot. One good spot is better than no good spots. Really with a lot of tip shapes one spot is all you need. But you need that one spot to be good. So you need to work on getting a tip to wet. Once the tip has completely oxidized it needs to be cleaned and retinned. Which you can't do. Those tips are lost causes. They can be recovered but you don't have the means to do it now. I polish oxidized tips and then dip them into molten solder. I have a solder pot. So you need to focus on good tips and bringing one up right. Oxidation can occur quickly. You can watch it happen. When the metal turns a color it's oxidizing. When it turns a little blue that's oxidation. Just a little dark it's oxidizing. Black it's really oxidized.
With the loose fitting tips, a way around that is to put a thin copper foil around the ceramic heater core and put the tip on. It takes up the space and transfers heat faster as it touches both surfaces of ceramic and tip. Another tip I have done is to make my own tip tinner. Buying is expensive for the amount you get. To make a tip tinner, get some crap / or solder wire without the flux core, melt a lot of it into a big blob and let it cool down. Grind it down into dust with a dremel (or similar) and a grindstone or sanding disk / roll. MAke plenty of solder dust. Add it to citric acid and place it in a metal tin with screw lid. You can add flux into it to bind it all together if wanted. Makes a good tip tinner. I never use a damp sponge for cleaning hte tips, I use a brass or wire scrub sponge from tesco or sainsburys (I get me wife to buy them for me when she goes shopping) and if you want to make a holder for the scrub, a tin of carnation milk is an ideal size. I made a tip cleaner from toothbrush size brass brushes. Cut the heads off from the handles and glued them into a square and wipe the tip over them. Works just as well as the sponges.
I love all that Ian 😁. I don't have any copper foil, but I'm going to see how the drink cans perform, but take all the coatings off next time. Someone mention d the coatings would affect heat transfer, which makes sense! I love the idea of making some tip tinner! I was looking for some use for my crappy old solder. I might even do a video on that as I'm super curious to give it a try 😁. Many thanks for taking the time to comment. I love reading them and really appreciate suggestions like this 😊
when i solder i like to use a soldering iron where the heating element is in contact with the tip and not like the ones you have where the heating element is flopping around in a tube. i did build a lot of electronics kits back in the late 70s with the irons we had back then,i just started building kits again in jan this year(i did not think my shaky hands and bad eyes where able to solder any more after 40+years of not soldering)i got myself a t-12 soldering iron and it looks like i still know how to make good solder joints. i use the same leaded tin as you do but the 0,2mm version at 350C.
Have you tried replacing the heating element yet? They can go bad sometimes. I had similar problems with my Aoyue 9378, it couldn’t heat the pads like it used to. The ceramic coating was coming off the heating wires inside, and although I initially couldn't see anything wrong on the outside, it eventually cracked and came loose. Before it completely failed, I was already having issues, so it was likely compromised inside and not functioning as a solid unit anymore. When I put the tip on a wet sponge for a short period, the temperature reading didn’t change. This makes sense because the built-in temperature sensor was measuring the heating element, which stayed hot since it couldn’t transfer the heat to the tip. Normally, the station should detect the temperature drop and start heating the element again. However, when the element is broken and can’t transfer the heat, the temperature reading remains the same. I used a thermocouple to measure the tip and let it cool down to about 250°C on the sponge, but the station still read 350°C. That's a good indicator that there might be something wrong with the element.
I think the element is ok. I was considering that as a possible issue though, but when I swapped the tips over between the Yihua 968 and the little Yihua station I have, the problems followed the tip if that makes sense 😊
Several points - how have you calibrated the temperature? Invest in a tip cleaner, wet sponge works, brass shavings work, but a pot of tin cleaner is much quicker. Quality solder makes a huge difference - what ratio do you use? I use multicore which has flux in the center. Also flux helps.
Hi, thanks for taking the time out to comment. Basically, I don't have a way of measuring the temperature. I might have to get something at some point. Someone else mentioned to use a tip cleaner. I will have to give it a try. I hadn't heard there was such a thing until not that long ago. I've always used the cheapest solder I can find, a 60/40 leaded. There's barely much flux in it. I think form having so many comments, it's something worth spending a bit more money in and getting better solder wire. The problem for me has been when you've only ever used the cheap stuff, you don't realise the benefits of getting something more expensive
late to the party here but I tip for the large ground or power areas on the board is to use your hot air station. Put some general heat in the area kinda like if you were using a preheated. If these areas are already 100-150c then your iron won't have to work as hard. I agree with the others about getting a better iron. You can get a t12 clone for relatively cheap and it will be so much more powerful than what you are using. Also the tips being cartridges instead of covers is much more efficient.
Nice video. Like you I'm on a budget, but here's a couple of things I've bought recently that have helped me. First, after years of not figuring I needed it, I picked up a tin of tip tinner (TMT-TC-2). It's pretty amazing how much it can clean up a blackened tip. The other is a handle for my flux syringe (RELIFE RL-062D) so I can dispense a little bit just where I want it (perhaps your flux isn't as solid as mine though?). Both are under $10 in case you want to try them.
Plus one for the "tip cleaner & tinner".. I used to buy it from Maplin Electronics in the UK, back in the day, before they went bankrupt and still have some - it lasts ages😊. TMT-TC-2 seems readily available. Just heat up the iron and push the (oxidised) tip into the flux/solder powder in the small tin for a few seconds and watch it do its magic. I also stay away from using the wire kinds (copper or steel wool) of tip cleaner, as they can often cause damage by scratching the tip which causes it to oxidise more easily. Oh and as other commenters have said.. always clean/retin your tip when you've finished soldering before letting it cool down.
Retired from electronics for 30+ years always used Weller iron 50watt set 380c all day long... 3.2mm spade(wedge) ... reason for 380c is people don't understand thermal loading.. ie if your tip is roughly the same size as the joint then the material (pcb.& component leg) then it needs to come to 220c just to melt any leaded solder... so the thermal mass doubles the second you put the tip on the joint and instantly has to melt solder also new PCBs do not delaminate like the old days. So you want in and out quickly hence the higher heat. Also get some heat transfer compound shove it down the tip/heater... as will stink up at first but will dry out and help regulate the temp control. 1...3.2mm spade 2... 380c 3. FLUX FLUX FLUX 4.... Always wet sponge every time you solder a joint (force of habbit) 5. Gravity is your friend always think were the solder wants to go from gravity. ie you want to desolder something have the pcb above the iron so it runs back onto the tip.(add flux) Iron maintenance ... Heat sink compound (burn it off vent it ) in the heater and tip, Only do this once not every time , just when you find the heat not regulating.
N Tal, what a great comment. Thanks for that. I never knew there was something you could add inside the tip to improve transfer. I've heard in the comments people sometimes use home made shims but didn't know there was an 'official' solution
Don't forget flux when cleaning your tip! Flux is invaluable. I learned how to solder the hard way. I grew up in the 90s with a cheap Radio Shack soldering iron that just plugs directly into the wall with no station or heat control, and I had no flux! I soldered a bunch of projects with that bad boy, along with my dad's butane powered portable Snap-On iron, which I inherited when he passed away 9 years ago. It's a bit clogged up now and doesn't function reliably, the butane flow varies, but it does still work. That thing has gotten me through a ton of projects before I finally spent the money on a nice Hakko station, which I feel so spoiled with.
Charles, what a lovely comment. Thank you for that. Yes I need to remember to use flux to help clean. I have been using it occasionally but mostly forget 😲. I'm just about to start filming part 2 of my new Spectrum build. I'm hoping the soldering will be better in this one 🤞
Once a tip oxidizes it is virtually impossible to retin it without a solder pot. That's because before an iron gets hot enough to melt solder it's already hot enough to oxidize again. So any cleaning you do is negated. You're playing beat the clock and losing every time.
@@RetroComputingReboot yeah once a tip has oxidized you're in a bad way then. So you have to avoid it happening at all costs. I have a solder pot and it can retin tips. Solder pots can do a lot of things. So they're nice gear to have. But they can be pricey. I know mine cost a lot. You could put lead in a tin can and put it on a grill. That would work. I saw a China man stripping boards and all he had was a dished piece of sheet metal over some concrete blocks with a gas burner under it. That got him a molten puddle of solder to play with. He was going to town with his setup he had. Stripping mountains of circuit boards. Saw it here on TH-cam. I like board stripping porn.
There is reason why people has started using soldering irons, with integrated tips. Like t12, c210 or c245. It is because in those heating cardridge is part of the tip. Because there is the cap between tip and heater in conventional tips, even the heaters side of the tip can oxidize. Some ppl do combat this by putting thermal paste between the tip and heater, but it is messy. Tips like t12,c210 and c245 are better options.
There is a video somewhere of a guy with the same problem using cheap tips. He solved it by cutting small strips of alloy from a drinks can and wrapping it round the element to take up the gap between the element and tip.
Yeah I've heard of people doing that with the T18 tips. Today no one uses T18 tips anymore. That fixes the problem too. The built in element tips are much better thermally. I have a T12 iron and it's brilliant. It heats up faster than my Weller.
@1pcfred Thanks for the comment. I've seen the T12s. They do look amazing, I just don't have the budget at the moment, but it's something on my list for the future 😊
@@RetroComputingReboot I got in the platform as cheap as possible. Less than $20. But for that I did have to put it together myself. Which required soldering. I needed a soldering iron to make another soldering iron. The irony there is not lost on me either. If I didn't buy the PSU I could have done it even cheaper still. The soldering kit was like $10. I probably could have built a PSU. There's no probably about it I definitely could have. But I just bought one. I did make a little PSU just to drive a 12V box fan I put in the case. I used a PC PSU case as a case. So I put a fan in there to keep everything cool.
Been doing this 40 years now, professionally and as a hobbyist. Essay ahead: If you can find the EPE Magazine PDF guide to soldering have a read, it may be useful. Watch out for the temperature of the iron, people will tell you to wind up the temperature for 'difficult' joints, that's a great way to ruin boards, tips, burn flux and make bad joints. What you need is a high power, temperature controlled iron because it can pump heat into the tip and keep it at the right temperature. It's informative to get one of those soldering iron temperature calibrators and watch what happens when you stick the iron on it then add a big chunk of metal or large solder joint, the temperature will droop and lots of the cheap irons can't 'get it up' fast enough or at all A larger tip might help because the more metal you have in the tip at the right temperature the longer it takes for a solder joint to soak it away but again, the cheaper irons have difficulty keeping it at temperature. Buy a decent quality soldering iron instead of the cheap Amazon/Aliexpress/Temu stuff that's flooded the market, it'll make your wallet cry but it's worth it and should last you years so it's a one time purchase (except for tips as they wear out) Good quality multicore flux solder wire should be all you need to make a decent joint on through hole stuff, it's not cheap but it's worth it. If you find you need to add flux your solder is rubbish, your iron is too hot (the flux vaporises and burns away too quickly), the component lead/board is oxidised or any combination of all those. Solder paste for SMD stuff is a mix of flux and solder and, again, should be all you need to make decent solder joints on most SMD stuff so you don't need to add flux unless as above Reflowing SMD or (re)working BGA where you're not adding solder or you've pretinned pads/leads is different, you probably do need to add good quality (liquid) flux. Cheap cellulose kitchen sponges from somewhere like B&M (assuming you're UK) soaked and then squeezed so it's only damp work best for cleaning the tips, I've tried the various copper/stainless steel scourer thingies and found they were at best only mildly useful and you shouldn't really be using anything abrasive on soldering iron tips anyway unless there's absolutely no alternative.
Wow, brilliant reply. Thanks for that. I did suspect a more powerful iron may be the route to go, and certainly better solder wire. It's that eternal balancing budgets 😢. But I'll get there eventually. At least I've reached a point where I know some of the mistakes I've been making 😁
I have a cheap Aliexpress iron and it's great. I have a Weller WTCPN right next to it too. So I know what a good iron is. There's nothing wrong with Chinese T12 irons. The T18s like this guy has aren't great.
@@RetroComputingReboot I have one and it out performs my Weller. I don't think it'll work as long as my Weller has. We used to use irons like my Weller at the board house I worked at. We'd come in, in the morning and turn them on and then just leave them on all day long. Day after day. Year after year. The sun comes up and Weller irons work. The other day when I turned my Chinese T12 on it glitched for a moment. But I turned it off and back on and it worked. Normally it's been pretty reliable. I do not expect it to last forever though. It's a lot more complicated than my Magnatstat. I ain't getting rid of my Weller. The T12 is the toy I like to play with. It has a knob and digits. The Weller just has a switch.
@1pcfred I think there's always (for most of us at least) a balance to be had between cost and performance. I do actually really like my Yihua station. I'd used it for ages with no issues and then the performance just seemed to deteriorate but I was soldering different stuff, so just shrugged it off and turned up the iron. It was only once I'd got so frustrated with it, I tried swapping the tip with my other iron, and lo and behold, the problem moved. I'm going to have a go at dropping some shims in just to see how it gets on. What's the worst that can happen? 😂 I am definitely going to get a cheap T12 unit at some point though 😁
I've stopped using a wet sponge years ago. I have a tin of fluxite which I dip my tip in before cleaning it off on the brass wool. I always tin my bit before I switch off. The oxidisation caused by the water in the wet sponge was eating away at my tips. I now try to solder inside a bubble of flux. All my joints are lead solder and nice and shiny now. I started soldering using a screwdriver heated up on my mum's cooker when I was a kid lol
@@RetroComputingReboot Thank you. I just measured the temperature of the 'chisel' tip of my iron after soldering a pin header (with my 'professional-quality' laser thermometer) and it came out at ~177°C, but take that with a pinch of salt lol. That does tally-up with the melting point of the Sn-Pb alloy I use at ~180-190°C, though. So, I suppose, not too hot. I usually do small THT soldering on stripboard but I could use more heat for desoldering or working with larger joints. I use a 58W 'Katsu'-branded current-controlled(?) soldering iron station, no heat gun. I do like it, but it is the second one after the heating element went on the last one. Last thing... Clean solder. I have taken to cleaning my solder with alcohol to make sure there's no chemical residue. I started doing this after inheriting an oily knot of solder from my uncle lol
I think from comments I've read, 60W should be more than ample for most jobs if it's a good quality iron. I've no way of measuring the temperature of mine though other than when accidentally touching.it 😂. I might have to get myself a solder temperature thingy at some point.
@@RetroComputingReboot The way your tips are acting it looks like you're running too hot. For whatever reason you're just not getting good wetting. You should be able to get solder to be liquid on the tip. Not just a ball of solder either. Like a film. But you can't heat big joints because you're getting lousy heat transfer to the tip. The tip style you have has fallen out of use. Today everyone uses integrated tips. Where the tip and heating element are one. I have a T12 iron. It's OK. I also have a Weller WTCPN too. The OG iron. But I use my T12 today. It heats up faster. I've drag raced them.
@@RetroComputingReboot I agree. Good idea, I think you can get sensors made for that. I have a vivid memory of grabbing my first soldering iron by the naughty end and received a nasty burn across my palm and fingertips. Valuable lessons learned all lol
Hi, like others said, good tips and solder make a difference. But I think that wet sponge and bad brass metal for cleaning are the major issues on those tips. Also when finishing and storing the tip, apply a little of solder on the tip and let it cool
HI Simon, as mentioned by other viewers, I would recommend good quality solder. Multicore, MG Chemicals or Stannol solder are good brands, they cost a bit more but are so much better than the cheap Chinese solder. I still have a reel of 40 year old Multicore solder and its absolutely fine. Also I have found that coating the tip with some solder before switching off the iron also helps. I avoid lead free solder as well.
@@RetroComputingReboot About a year ago I bought a Yihua 995D+, which so far seems fine. Before then I used my trusty Antex C15 ( I also have a Antex XS25 which has been fine) which if I remember is a 15w non temperature controlled iron, which I'd had for some 40 years and was absolutely fine for my needs. Changing the subject, I been experimenting with Retrobrighting. I tried the vapour method on a Atari ST case but after 2 days in a vapour box I found no change. The problem I think was that I could not keep the temperature of the Peroxide above 22C? Then I tried immersing the case completely in Peroxide, which was costly because I found out that I needed about 12L of Peroxide to fill the box used for Retrobrighting! This worked, but although it's not a perfect "grey" colour, it's certainly a lot better than before. I did however find it caused a weird spot to appear on the bottom of the case, so I decided to call it quits to avoid any further damage. Luckily because it's on the bottom of the case it will never be seen during normal use. Next I will try to spray one case and then I will try the dye paint you used on one of your ST's.
Look for "multicore" solder, it comes on a red reel - ideally you want a 500g one. I understand that it can be hand on eBay etc. as ex-military stock - which sits on a shelf for a couple of years before they get rid. I've used a reel of that stuff (60/40 tin/lead split, 5 flux cores - so no need for extra flux) along with an Antex 'C' soldering iron (15 Watts, non-temperature controlled, with a 0.5mm point tip) - both of which I've had for over 20 years. I used those to build a Harlequin 128 issue 2D kit - sourced from ByteDelight - with no issues ... and it even worked first time 🙂 EDIT: checked - the Antex 'C' soldering iron (sometimes listed as C15) is about £35. The only issue as such with that one is whilst it's great for DIL chips, resistors etc. it will struggle with bigger components like modulators -and big ground planes, so you might also need a bigger iron for those. But for the majority of speccy soldering at least, it does the job well.
Thanks Dan, appreciate that. I'm my own worst enemy sometimes when it comes to bargains. I think with the solder it's not such a bargain. I'll have to step up here and see how I get on with some better stuff
@@RetroComputingReboot no worries, also I found that using a damp (rather tthan wet) sponge is best, it doesn't suck out as much heat then. Good to see you videos though, it's always good to show stuff like this as many others are likely in the same situation ... I was fortunate that my Dad taught me soldering when I was young and he had a supply of faulty boards and components for me to practice on. Soldering is very much a skill - like riding a bike - once you've mastered it, you can not touch one for years and pretty much pick up where you left off. The key other point I found when assembling boards like this is to make sure you heat the pad and the component lead for a second or two before you bring the solder in, it should then melt almost instantly. It's very easy - especially on original spectrum boards, which were quite fragile back then and even more so now - to put too much heat into a joint and end up lifting pads and/or traces ...
@barge2007 I'll try just damp. That's a good shout. I've gone from one extreme to the other 😂 It just became so frustrating as I felt I was going backwards and couldn't understand why. As is often the case, it isn't just one thing. I'm really glad though it's not the soldering station as I know it's a cheapie but I really liked it when I got it, I just couldn't for the life of me work out why the performance had fallen off. It's really nice to be back soldering again and enjoying it 😊. Thanks as always for your support. I should have part 2 of the new Speccy build up in the next few days
Geeze, I don't know what I am doing right! I have been using $8 Amazon Special irons for years. I have never used such a complex soldering iron. I have always been very happy with the performance too. That being said, and after reading these comments, I abuse my stuff like crazy! My iron is currently 3.5 years old now. Still using the tip that was on it when shipped, never cleaned the tip with anything iver than steel wool. Always have the temperature maxxed. Never care how I put it away... just turn it off and clean it next time. I have left it on, accidentally, for over 24 hours. I think my question is... why is it still working like new? I do buy super cheap solder, but I do actually get good flux. From my own experiences over the past 23 or 24 years, I can not understand why anyone would pay more than $15 for an iron. Unless you're working with some super sensitive components. I have not found any yet, tho the most complex chips I use are 74 series logic. It seems to me that the cheap irons and tips are better than the expensive ones. At least I see people needing to clean and take care of those tips, whereas mine I put away and abuse and it never dies! Maybe im just lucky, but ive been through several irons and never paid more than $15 bucks for one. They always last for years with the original tip. Dont know why.
Thanks for the comment there, Brad. It gave me a good chuckle. I think there's definitely right and wrong things to do,and I've drifted into the latter. That said, I think I've more of an idea going forwards (hopefully 😂). My super cheap little station did and still does work really well, but as soon as I changed the tip, the performance was suddenly garbage. I don't think you have to spend the earth to have 'good' equipment, I just think you need to have the basics skills to look after it. My old setup, I never changed the tip. It was just what it came with. I think I was just lucky in not messing it up. I never tinned after use or cleaned it properly and it just kept plodding on 😂. But putting into practice some good tips and cleaning regimes and my Yihua is like new again. All the issues I was having have disappeared. Let's see how long that lasts 😂
soldering is a very simple concept that is difficult to do. _"Soldering, sir, is a delicate art."_ -- Marconi (said to a man while holding a blow torch and a 2.5 Kg bar of lead)
I think that's the trap I fell into, believing it to be simpler than it was. However, it has been satisfying overcoming those frustrations and getting more or less to the bottom of it. I think what is interesting is having watched a ton of videos on it now, not everyone agrees on everything. I'm just glad I'm back on track! What solder would you recommend? I have to try wean myself off the super cheap stuff as I'm sure that doesn't help
You're having a problem with something called, "wetting". An iron tip has to be tinned but it also has to be wet. Just silver isn't really enough. It is the wetness of molten solder that couples heat. You said people add solder to the tip. That's wetting it. But the solder can't just ball up on the tip. It has to be wet on the surface of the tip. The tip has to be wet. Once a tip turns black it's difficult to recondition it. Without a molten solder pot it's virtually impossible to retin an oxidized tip. Although I've never fooled around with that sal ammoniac stuff which supposedly can do it? I just use the dip method. Which definitely works. I've heard of people shimming those T18 style tips you have with slivers of soda can. Mostly people have moved on to integrated heating element tips today. The T12s and T100s. I like Kester solder. As far as sponges go you want to use a damp sponge not a soaking wet one. Some don't like sponges at all. But I think if used right they're OK.
That's for the comment Paul. Yes I think I'm finally getting my head round it I think 😂. Time will tell though! I'm still on the super cheap solder at the moment as I've blown my budget for this month on bits for the Speccy build, but it's on my list of things to sort. Those T12 irons do look really good. It's something I will definitely try get my hands on at some point. I'll try practice more with the wetting. It's a balance I guess between none and a huge blob 😂
Someone suggested on Facebook that NASA engineers use blue roll instead of a sponge. I'm going to give that a whirl. Even if it's rubbish, it will come in handy for many other things 😀
Congratulate yourself! you have indeed discovered the problems, you are rubbish at soldering and your equipment is junk! :) No seriously you are on the right track now, just some further pointers to steer you right. No you dont need a more powerful soldering iron, ALL your problems are down to the heat from the ceramic element NOT getting to the work. The sloppy fit of the cheap bits being the main culprit but even with the proper branded stuff that system of replacement bits it about the worst there is. I have a old (50 plus years old) Weller TCP iron, 50 watt, and its bits are slightly tapered so you get good contact when you screw the outer cover back on. Today the better idea that most manufacturers have gone to is the cartridge system where the bit and element are all one bonded piece. More expensive but amazing performance, even allowing you to rework boards at sub 300 degree temps to stop pcb damage. Like other have commented, never leave your tip naked! never, not hot, not cold. ALWAYS have solder on your tip! You only wipe the tip and re-tin it just before you are going to solder. The tip cant oxidize if there is solder covering it. One thing I think I see you do incorrectly is you dont apply the freshly tinned surface of the tip to the joint you are working. It seems to be facing skyward! Apply the cleaned, tinned surface to the joint! Hope this helps.
Hi Bazzaar. Thanks for taking the time out to comment. I think the more I have learned from what I have suspected with the loose fitting tips and the comments from you guys, is that the cartridge types are the future. They do seem brilliant. I might have to try one of the cheap versions at some point (I know, I should.save up for a Hakko but that's just not realistic at the moment). I do hope my soldering is coming across clearly on film (whether it's right or wrong 😂). It should show the cleanly tinned side of the iron heating up the joints.. Either way, I hope you'll join me for part 2 of my Spectrum build. Hopefully you'll see some improvements 😁
@@RetroComputingReboot I have the cheapest of the cheap T12 kits off ali and it's fine. I think it was under $13? But you have to supply your own PSU. So I bought that off ali too. I think it cost another $5 and change? I mounted it all in an old PC PSU enclosure. Because I was too cheap to buy something.
I wonder why anybody still uses soldering iron without T-12 style integrated tips. This is crazy for me. Any cheap t12 soldering iron has soooooooo much better performance, instant on, reliability etc.
Hi Marcin, thanks for the comment. I've been looking at the T12 style irons. They do sound really good. I'd love to give one a try at some point. The reason I didn't go for one when I bought this set up is I'd never heard of them, plus starting out, I wouldn't have appreciated the difference they could make. Definitely something I'll save up for to try at some point 👍
Yeah I have a cheap put it together yourself T12 iron from aliexpress and the performance is solid. I got the 5 amp PSU for it. I think that makes it 75 Watts? I went with the old 7 segment style one. I've thought about picking the oled screen one up too.
Never buy Jinhu solder. I tried it and it seems a fake solder. It's certainly not 63/37. There are videos on this stuff comparing it to genuine leaded solder. There are good cheap Chinese solders out there, like Kaina and Dmiotech. My recommendation for cheap stuff is Mechanic solder. 👍 You'll see a huge difference once you get soldering with some good quality solder.
I think your right. I've just never used some 'good' stuff. The joints are always dark coloured too, never shiny. I'm going to have to use up what I've got though, as if I buy more solder, there's less to spend elsewhere 😕
That cheap solder from ebay , Ali express is garbage i bought some myself and it seems the lead content is a lot lower than claims and when it melts it melts all lumpy i bought myself some copper tips and tinned them myself they work so much better than those iron ones that come with the machine.
Thanks for that and taking time to comment. I strongly suspect that the cheap solder has been hampering my soldering. The issue I've had is I've only ever used the cheap stuff so never had anything to compare. I do need to bite the bullet though and try some decent stuff 👍
@@RetroComputingReboot yeah that solder you're using could be bunk. Something is stopping you from getting a truly wet soldering tip. Just melting solder isn't enough. Solder has to flow. The way solder is balling up on your tip isn't right. The surface tension has to break. What you want is a thin film of molten solder on your tip not just that silver dryness you got going on. But silver dryness is better than blackness. Once a tip goes black you're done. They can be recovered but it's not easy. What I do then is I shine them up and dip them into molten solder. But I have a solder pot so I can do that. Without molten solder to dip the tip into it's virtually impossible to retin them. Because as the tip heats up it'll oxidize again before any solder has a chance to melt onto it. People coat tips in flux and wrap solder around them and that might work? But it's iffy.
I use 370 ℃ and of course you need to clean them. I use a wet sponge and clean it after every soldering. Before i turn my solder iron off i put a bit solder on the tip and this will make the tip nice and clean the next time i want to use it. I have been using a wet sponge for 40 years and before that my father for another 20 years, so it will not damage your tip or make it oxidize more. I do look like your solder iron is crap and you have too low temperature. Does the solder have a rosin core?
Hi thanks for the comment 👍 I actually quite like my iron now I've managed to resolve some of the issues I've been having but I'm under no illusion there will be much better units out there. It's just that they are beyond my budget for now. I'm trying to discipline myself with my tip cleaning routine as I am prone to forgetting 😂 The solder I use is pretty poor, I'm convinced of that now. There seems to be very little flux in it. I am going to invest and try getting some better quality solder. I'm hoping that will make a big improvement too. 🤞
Professional & hobbyist in electronics for many years, here's my tips:
1. Buy a decent soldering iron (i.e. JBC) and chuck out those Yihua stations. With a good iron with enough power behind it you should rarely need to adjust the temperature from SMD up to large THP.
2. Use a decent brandname multicore solder.
3. Don't use a wet sponge to wipe off your tip, you'll just promote oxidization. Use a scourer type thing to clean your tip but sparingly. Don't wip off your tip when you finish a joint, only wipe it off when you are about to start a new joint. This leaves the old flux/solder on the tip when you are not using it and helps avoid oxidization. You want to avoid the tip being left 'bare' when it's hot.
4. Don't use conical tips except for special work, use a small chisel tip for most stuff. A chisel tip offers better heat transfer.
Thanks Ian. I really appreciate that.
I bow to experience having only really tinkered with soldering over the last 18 months or so.
I get what you're saying about Yihua and the cheaper brands. I don't have the experience of using the more expensive stuff, so no doubt you are right about the better performance. But it's just at a budget I can afford. Until I had issues creeping in, I was genuinely really pleased with how it worked. I'm hoping I've bottomed most of the issues by a bit of self education and support from comments like yourself.
I've been the same with solder. I've just gone cheap and hoped for the best without experiencing what the good stuff is like. But unlike replacing with a Hakko, I can budget for some good solder wire.
Interesting what you say about the wet sponge too. I'm certainly not arguing the point, but for whatever I have found the wet sponge to make it so much easier to clean the tip.
What I definitely need to do is make sure there's solder on the tip between joints and to clean it only at the point of being ready to do the next. That makes a lot of sense. I'll try discipline myself here to make sure I remember 😊.
I'm just glad I'm back to the point where I enjoy soldering again, as it had started to become a bit of a grind with all the issues that were catching up with me.
Thanks for your support and taking the time to help 😊
@@RetroComputingReboot I guess just remember that flux is your friend, i.e. you won't get much heat flow without it, so sometimes you would 'wet' the iron tip and your target before soldering proper. It's too easy to think it's a heat issue when in reality it's a simple heat transfer issue.
Have fun!.
@@RetroComputingReboot I should mention also that soldering old/vintage Pcb's can often be a challenge for anyone.......sometimes there's no choice but to remove all solder from a joint when heat transfer/wetting just won't happen. Contaminated solder is a pain!
@IanScottJohnston I'll take that 😁. I'll try remember it might not always be my fault 😂
@IanScottJohnston Thanks Ian. Really appreciate the support 👍. I should be embarking on part 2 of my new Speccy build tomorrow so hopefully I've learned something 😁
Hi Simon, I also suffered from quickly oxidizing tips until I learned the secret! Never let your iron cool with a clean tip. Always clean the tip whilst hot, re-tin with fresh solder and then turn the iron of immediately. Leaving some fresh solder on the tip protects it from oxidizing whilst not in use. Also, use decent quality 60/40 solder with a good flux ratio. You can still get good multicore 60/40 in the UK from CPC. Hope that helps you or someone! Looking forward to the zx spectrum build videos. I did an A500+ recently and also quite fancy doing a speccy as I owned both machines as a kid.
Thanks Neil. I appreciate the support 😊
I'm definitely going to up my game with the solder. The cheap stuff is fine I guess but can't help but believe some good quality stuff will be a big improvement. As always, it's learning where best to spend your budget
Awesome. I've got an A7000 and a RISC PC 600 to fix - battery damage :'( Looking for schematics and whatnot.
I learned to program on a BBC Master lol
I've been soldering since the late 1960's for both hobby and work. It looks like you figured out most of your issues and have a grasp on them. Also useful to have both tip cleaning methods available for best results and should always have some solder on the tip to help keep it in good condition even when not soldering. One thing I would suggest is to not use 60/40 solder, but to use a good Sn63 (63/37) flux core solder (I use Kester here in the states). It is eutectic which means it has the lowest melting point of any tin/lead solder and has little if any plastic stage (goes directly from liquid to solid) for less risk of cold solder joints. Good luck with your projects.
Hi there. Thanks for taking the time to comment 😊.
I agree, I need to move away from the cheap solder. I think it certainly doesn't help me. I'll add your recommendation to the stuff to have a try with. Thanks again!
Nice to know :) Sounds like the solder alloy I use.
@@RetroComputingReboot I watch another channel where the guy uses Chinese solder. Some of it is OK. I use Kester 44. I got a lifetime supply of it when I worked at a board assembly house. When we switched to water soluble the boss gave me all the stock of solder we had on hand.
@@1pcfred I'm going to invest in some better solder, I promise 😊
@@RetroComputingReboot I would just to see if it is an issue. What I'm seeing is your iron tips aren't wetting. When you first run a new tip you have to jump on it with solder. They come tinned from the factory but not really wetted. So when you fire a new tip up you have to feed it solder and get that solder on the tip as fast as you can. Otherwise what happens is they end up like those black tips that you got. Sometimes an iron tip will only have a little wet spot to it. The rest of the tip will be all oxidized. But you work with that one good wet spot. One good spot is better than no good spots. Really with a lot of tip shapes one spot is all you need. But you need that one spot to be good. So you need to work on getting a tip to wet. Once the tip has completely oxidized it needs to be cleaned and retinned. Which you can't do. Those tips are lost causes. They can be recovered but you don't have the means to do it now. I polish oxidized tips and then dip them into molten solder. I have a solder pot. So you need to focus on good tips and bringing one up right. Oxidation can occur quickly. You can watch it happen. When the metal turns a color it's oxidizing. When it turns a little blue that's oxidation. Just a little dark it's oxidizing. Black it's really oxidized.
With the loose fitting tips, a way around that is to put a thin copper foil around the ceramic heater core and put the tip on. It takes up the space and transfers heat faster as it touches both surfaces of ceramic and tip.
Another tip I have done is to make my own tip tinner. Buying is expensive for the amount you get. To make a tip tinner, get some crap / or solder wire without the flux core, melt a lot of it into a big blob and let it cool down. Grind it down into dust with a dremel (or similar) and a grindstone or sanding disk / roll. MAke plenty of solder dust. Add it to citric acid and place it in a metal tin with screw lid. You can add flux into it to bind it all together if wanted. Makes a good tip tinner.
I never use a damp sponge for cleaning hte tips, I use a brass or wire scrub sponge from tesco or sainsburys (I get me wife to buy them for me when she goes shopping) and if you want to make a holder for the scrub, a tin of carnation milk is an ideal size.
I made a tip cleaner from toothbrush size brass brushes. Cut the heads off from the handles and glued them into a square and wipe the tip over them. Works just as well as the sponges.
I love all that Ian 😁. I don't have any copper foil, but I'm going to see how the drink cans perform, but take all the coatings off next time. Someone mention d the coatings would affect heat transfer, which makes sense!
I love the idea of making some tip tinner! I was looking for some use for my crappy old solder. I might even do a video on that as I'm super curious to give it a try 😁.
Many thanks for taking the time to comment. I love reading them and really appreciate suggestions like this 😊
when i solder i like to use a soldering iron where the heating element is in contact with the tip and not like the ones you have where the heating element is flopping around in a tube.
i did build a lot of electronics kits back in the late 70s with the irons we had back then,i just started building kits again in jan this year(i did not think my shaky hands and bad eyes where able to solder any more after 40+years of not soldering)i got myself a t-12 soldering iron and it looks like i still know how to make good solder joints.
i use the same leaded tin as you do but the 0,2mm version at 350C.
Have you tried replacing the heating element yet? They can go bad sometimes. I had similar problems with my Aoyue 9378, it couldn’t heat the pads like it used to. The ceramic coating was coming off the heating wires inside, and although I initially couldn't see anything wrong on the outside, it eventually cracked and came loose. Before it completely failed, I was already having issues, so it was likely compromised inside and not functioning as a solid unit anymore.
When I put the tip on a wet sponge for a short period, the temperature reading didn’t change. This makes sense because the built-in temperature sensor was measuring the heating element, which stayed hot since it couldn’t transfer the heat to the tip. Normally, the station should detect the temperature drop and start heating the element again. However, when the element is broken and can’t transfer the heat, the temperature reading remains the same. I used a thermocouple to measure the tip and let it cool down to about 250°C on the sponge, but the station still read 350°C. That's a good indicator that there might be something wrong with the element.
I think the element is ok. I was considering that as a possible issue though, but when I swapped the tips over between the Yihua 968 and the little Yihua station I have, the problems followed the tip if that makes sense 😊
Several points - how have you calibrated the temperature? Invest in a tip cleaner, wet sponge works, brass shavings work, but a pot of tin cleaner is much quicker. Quality solder makes a huge difference - what ratio do you use? I use multicore which has flux in the center. Also flux helps.
Hi, thanks for taking the time out to comment.
Basically, I don't have a way of measuring the temperature. I might have to get something at some point.
Someone else mentioned to use a tip cleaner. I will have to give it a try. I hadn't heard there was such a thing until not that long ago.
I've always used the cheapest solder I can find, a 60/40 leaded. There's barely much flux in it.
I think form having so many comments, it's something worth spending a bit more money in and getting better solder wire. The problem for me has been when you've only ever used the cheap stuff, you don't realise the benefits of getting something more expensive
late to the party here but I tip for the large ground or power areas on the board is to use your hot air station. Put some general heat in the area kinda like if you were using a preheated. If these areas are already 100-150c then your iron won't have to work as hard. I agree with the others about getting a better iron. You can get a t12 clone for relatively cheap and it will be so much more powerful than what you are using. Also the tips being cartridges instead of covers is much more efficient.
Thanks, really appreciate that. Never too late to the party 😁
Nice video. Like you I'm on a budget, but here's a couple of things I've bought recently that have helped me. First, after years of not figuring I needed it, I picked up a tin of tip tinner (TMT-TC-2). It's pretty amazing how much it can clean up a blackened tip. The other is a handle for my flux syringe (RELIFE RL-062D) so I can dispense a little bit just where I want it (perhaps your flux isn't as solid as mine though?). Both are under $10 in case you want to try them.
Thanks Kenny, I appreciate that. I'll take a look at those
Plus one for the "tip cleaner & tinner".. I used to buy it from Maplin Electronics in the UK, back in the day, before they went bankrupt and still have some - it lasts ages😊. TMT-TC-2 seems readily available. Just heat up the iron and push the (oxidised) tip into the flux/solder powder in the small tin for a few seconds and watch it do its magic. I also stay away from using the wire kinds (copper or steel wool) of tip cleaner, as they can often cause damage by scratching the tip which causes it to oxidise more easily. Oh and as other commenters have said.. always clean/retin your tip when you've finished soldering before letting it cool down.
Retired from electronics for 30+ years always used Weller iron 50watt set 380c all day long... 3.2mm spade(wedge) ... reason for 380c is people don't understand thermal loading.. ie if your tip is roughly the same size as the joint then the material (pcb.& component leg) then it needs to come to 220c just to melt any leaded solder... so the thermal mass doubles the second you put the tip on the joint and instantly has to melt solder also new PCBs do not delaminate like the old days. So you want in and out quickly hence the higher heat.
Also get some heat transfer compound shove it down the tip/heater... as will stink up at first but will dry out and help regulate the temp control.
1...3.2mm spade
2... 380c
3. FLUX FLUX FLUX
4.... Always wet sponge every time you solder a joint (force of habbit)
5. Gravity is your friend always think were the solder wants to go from gravity. ie you want to desolder something have the pcb above the iron so it runs back onto the tip.(add flux)
Iron maintenance ... Heat sink compound (burn it off vent it ) in the heater and tip, Only do this once not every time , just when you find the heat not regulating.
N Tal, what a great comment. Thanks for that. I never knew there was something you could add inside the tip to improve transfer. I've heard in the comments people sometimes use home made shims but didn't know there was an 'official' solution
Don't forget flux when cleaning your tip! Flux is invaluable. I learned how to solder the hard way. I grew up in the 90s with a cheap Radio Shack soldering iron that just plugs directly into the wall with no station or heat control, and I had no flux! I soldered a bunch of projects with that bad boy, along with my dad's butane powered portable Snap-On iron, which I inherited when he passed away 9 years ago. It's a bit clogged up now and doesn't function reliably, the butane flow varies, but it does still work. That thing has gotten me through a ton of projects before I finally spent the money on a nice Hakko station, which I feel so spoiled with.
Charles, what a lovely comment. Thank you for that.
Yes I need to remember to use flux to help clean. I have been using it occasionally but mostly forget 😲. I'm just about to start filming part 2 of my new Spectrum build. I'm hoping the soldering will be better in this one 🤞
Once a tip oxidizes it is virtually impossible to retin it without a solder pot. That's because before an iron gets hot enough to melt solder it's already hot enough to oxidize again. So any cleaning you do is negated. You're playing beat the clock and losing every time.
@1pcfred oh yes, I'm very familiar now with that game and a bit fed up of playing it 😂
@@RetroComputingReboot yeah once a tip has oxidized you're in a bad way then. So you have to avoid it happening at all costs. I have a solder pot and it can retin tips. Solder pots can do a lot of things. So they're nice gear to have. But they can be pricey. I know mine cost a lot. You could put lead in a tin can and put it on a grill. That would work. I saw a China man stripping boards and all he had was a dished piece of sheet metal over some concrete blocks with a gas burner under it. That got him a molten puddle of solder to play with. He was going to town with his setup he had. Stripping mountains of circuit boards. Saw it here on TH-cam. I like board stripping porn.
@1pcfred I'm now googling solder pots 😂
There is reason why people has started using soldering irons, with integrated tips. Like t12, c210 or c245. It is because in those heating cardridge is part of the tip. Because there is the cap between tip and heater in conventional tips, even the heaters side of the tip can oxidize. Some ppl do combat this by putting thermal paste between the tip and heater, but it is messy. Tips like t12,c210 and c245 are better options.
Hi, thanks for commenting. I think you're right 👍
There is a video somewhere of a guy with the same problem using cheap tips. He solved it by cutting small strips of alloy from a drinks can and wrapping it round the element to take up the gap between the element and tip.
Cheers for that. I might give that a try. Nothing to lose there 😊
Please give a link to that video
Yeah I've heard of people doing that with the T18 tips. Today no one uses T18 tips anymore. That fixes the problem too. The built in element tips are much better thermally. I have a T12 iron and it's brilliant. It heats up faster than my Weller.
@1pcfred Thanks for the comment. I've seen the T12s. They do look amazing, I just don't have the budget at the moment, but it's something on my list for the future 😊
@@RetroComputingReboot I got in the platform as cheap as possible. Less than $20. But for that I did have to put it together myself. Which required soldering. I needed a soldering iron to make another soldering iron. The irony there is not lost on me either. If I didn't buy the PSU I could have done it even cheaper still. The soldering kit was like $10. I probably could have built a PSU. There's no probably about it I definitely could have. But I just bought one. I did make a little PSU just to drive a 12V box fan I put in the case. I used a PC PSU case as a case. So I put a fan in there to keep everything cool.
Been doing this 40 years now, professionally and as a hobbyist.
Essay ahead:
If you can find the EPE Magazine PDF guide to soldering have a read, it may be useful.
Watch out for the temperature of the iron, people will tell you to wind up the temperature for 'difficult' joints, that's a great way to ruin boards, tips, burn flux and make bad joints.
What you need is a high power, temperature controlled iron because it can pump heat into the tip and keep it at the right temperature.
It's informative to get one of those soldering iron temperature calibrators and watch what happens when you stick the iron on it then add a big chunk of metal or large solder joint, the temperature will droop and lots of the cheap irons can't 'get it up' fast enough or at all
A larger tip might help because the more metal you have in the tip at the right temperature the longer it takes for a solder joint to soak it away but again, the cheaper irons have difficulty keeping it at temperature.
Buy a decent quality soldering iron instead of the cheap Amazon/Aliexpress/Temu stuff that's flooded the market, it'll make your wallet cry but it's worth it and should last you years so it's a one time purchase (except for tips as they wear out)
Good quality multicore flux solder wire should be all you need to make a decent joint on through hole stuff, it's not cheap but it's worth it.
If you find you need to add flux your solder is rubbish, your iron is too hot (the flux vaporises and burns away too quickly), the component lead/board is oxidised or any combination of all those.
Solder paste for SMD stuff is a mix of flux and solder and, again, should be all you need to make decent solder joints on most SMD stuff so you don't need to add flux unless as above
Reflowing SMD or (re)working BGA where you're not adding solder or you've pretinned pads/leads is different, you probably do need to add good quality (liquid) flux.
Cheap cellulose kitchen sponges from somewhere like B&M (assuming you're UK) soaked and then squeezed so it's only damp work best for cleaning the tips, I've tried the various copper/stainless steel scourer thingies and found they were at best only mildly useful and you shouldn't really be using anything abrasive on soldering iron tips anyway unless there's absolutely no alternative.
Wow, brilliant reply. Thanks for that. I did suspect a more powerful iron may be the route to go, and certainly better solder wire. It's that eternal balancing budgets 😢. But I'll get there eventually. At least I've reached a point where I know some of the mistakes I've been making 😁
I have a cheap Aliexpress iron and it's great. I have a Weller WTCPN right next to it too. So I know what a good iron is. There's nothing wrong with Chinese T12 irons. The T18s like this guy has aren't great.
@1pcfred I must admit I am tempted with those Chinese T12 irons
@@RetroComputingReboot I have one and it out performs my Weller. I don't think it'll work as long as my Weller has. We used to use irons like my Weller at the board house I worked at. We'd come in, in the morning and turn them on and then just leave them on all day long. Day after day. Year after year. The sun comes up and Weller irons work. The other day when I turned my Chinese T12 on it glitched for a moment. But I turned it off and back on and it worked. Normally it's been pretty reliable. I do not expect it to last forever though. It's a lot more complicated than my Magnatstat. I ain't getting rid of my Weller. The T12 is the toy I like to play with. It has a knob and digits. The Weller just has a switch.
@1pcfred I think there's always (for most of us at least) a balance to be had between cost and performance. I do actually really like my Yihua station. I'd used it for ages with no issues and then the performance just seemed to deteriorate but I was soldering different stuff, so just shrugged it off and turned up the iron. It was only once I'd got so frustrated with it, I tried swapping the tip with my other iron, and lo and behold, the problem moved.
I'm going to have a go at dropping some shims in just to see how it gets on. What's the worst that can happen? 😂
I am definitely going to get a cheap T12 unit at some point though 😁
I've stopped using a wet sponge years ago. I have a tin of fluxite which I dip my tip in before cleaning it off on the brass wool. I always tin my bit before I switch off.
The oxidisation caused by the water in the wet sponge was eating away at my tips.
I now try to solder inside a bubble of flux. All my joints are lead solder and nice and shiny now.
I started soldering using a screwdriver heated up on my mum's cooker when I was a kid lol
Thanks for the comment Stin. That's really interesting to know. I'll have to have a go with that too!
@@RetroComputingReboot Thank you.
I just measured the temperature of the 'chisel' tip of my iron after soldering a pin header (with my 'professional-quality' laser thermometer) and it came out at ~177°C, but take that with a pinch of salt lol. That does tally-up with the melting point of the Sn-Pb alloy I use at ~180-190°C, though.
So, I suppose, not too hot. I usually do small THT soldering on stripboard but I could use more heat for desoldering or working with larger joints.
I use a 58W 'Katsu'-branded current-controlled(?) soldering iron station, no heat gun. I do like it, but it is the second one after the heating element went on the last one.
Last thing... Clean solder. I have taken to cleaning my solder with alcohol to make sure there's no chemical residue. I started doing this after inheriting an oily knot of solder from my uncle lol
I think from comments I've read, 60W should be more than ample for most jobs if it's a good quality iron. I've no way of measuring the temperature of mine though other than when accidentally touching.it 😂. I might have to get myself a solder temperature thingy at some point.
@@RetroComputingReboot The way your tips are acting it looks like you're running too hot. For whatever reason you're just not getting good wetting. You should be able to get solder to be liquid on the tip. Not just a ball of solder either. Like a film. But you can't heat big joints because you're getting lousy heat transfer to the tip. The tip style you have has fallen out of use. Today everyone uses integrated tips. Where the tip and heating element are one. I have a T12 iron. It's OK. I also have a Weller WTCPN too. The OG iron. But I use my T12 today. It heats up faster. I've drag raced them.
@@RetroComputingReboot I agree. Good idea, I think you can get sensors made for that.
I have a vivid memory of grabbing my first soldering iron by the naughty end and received a nasty burn across my palm and fingertips. Valuable lessons learned all lol
Hi, like others said, good tips and solder make a difference. But I think that wet sponge and bad brass metal for cleaning are the major issues on those tips. Also when finishing and storing the tip, apply a little of solder on the tip and let it cool
There's been a significant improvement. I think with decent solder it will improve again too. Thanks for the comment. I appreciate the support
@@RetroComputingReboot You welcome, have a nice one!
HI Simon, as mentioned by other viewers, I would recommend good quality solder. Multicore, MG Chemicals or Stannol solder are good brands, they cost a bit more but are so much better than the cheap Chinese solder. I still have a reel of 40 year old Multicore solder and its absolutely fine. Also I have found that coating the tip with some solder before switching off the iron also helps. I avoid lead free solder as well.
Hi John. Yes, I have to face facts and accept that decent solder is always going to help. I suspected this, but it's good to know 😁
@@RetroComputingReboot About a year ago I bought a Yihua 995D+, which so far seems fine. Before then I used my trusty Antex C15 ( I also have a Antex XS25 which has been fine) which if I remember is a 15w non temperature controlled iron, which I'd had for some 40 years and was absolutely fine for my needs.
Changing the subject, I been experimenting with Retrobrighting. I tried the vapour method on a Atari ST case but after 2 days in a vapour box I found no change. The problem I think was that I could not keep the temperature of the Peroxide above 22C?
Then I tried immersing the case completely in Peroxide, which was costly because I found out that I needed about 12L of Peroxide to fill the box used for Retrobrighting! This worked, but although it's not a perfect "grey" colour, it's certainly a lot better than before. I did however find it caused a weird spot to appear on the bottom of the case, so I decided to call it quits to avoid any further damage. Luckily because it's on the bottom of the case it will never be seen during normal use. Next I will try to spray one case and then I will try the dye paint you used on one of your ST's.
Look for "multicore" solder, it comes on a red reel - ideally you want a 500g one. I understand that it can be hand on eBay etc. as ex-military stock - which sits on a shelf for a couple of years before they get rid. I've used a reel of that stuff (60/40 tin/lead split, 5 flux cores - so no need for extra flux) along with an Antex 'C' soldering iron (15 Watts, non-temperature controlled, with a 0.5mm point tip) - both of which I've had for over 20 years. I used those to build a Harlequin 128 issue 2D kit - sourced from ByteDelight - with no issues ... and it even worked first time 🙂
EDIT: checked - the Antex 'C' soldering iron (sometimes listed as C15) is about £35. The only issue as such with that one is whilst it's great for DIL chips, resistors etc. it will struggle with bigger components like modulators -and big ground planes, so you might also need a bigger iron for those. But for the majority of speccy soldering at least, it does the job well.
Thanks Dan, appreciate that. I'm my own worst enemy sometimes when it comes to bargains. I think with the solder it's not such a bargain. I'll have to step up here and see how I get on with some better stuff
@@RetroComputingReboot no worries, also I found that using a damp (rather tthan wet) sponge is best, it doesn't suck out as much heat then. Good to see you videos though, it's always good to show stuff like this as many others are likely in the same situation ... I was fortunate that my Dad taught me soldering when I was young and he had a supply of faulty boards and components for me to practice on. Soldering is very much a skill - like riding a bike - once you've mastered it, you can not touch one for years and pretty much pick up where you left off. The key other point I found when assembling boards like this is to make sure you heat the pad and the component lead for a second or two before you bring the solder in, it should then melt almost instantly. It's very easy - especially on original spectrum boards, which were quite fragile back then and even more so now - to put too much heat into a joint and end up lifting pads and/or traces ...
@barge2007 I'll try just damp. That's a good shout. I've gone from one extreme to the other 😂
It just became so frustrating as I felt I was going backwards and couldn't understand why. As is often the case, it isn't just one thing. I'm really glad though it's not the soldering station as I know it's a cheapie but I really liked it when I got it, I just couldn't for the life of me work out why the performance had fallen off.
It's really nice to be back soldering again and enjoying it 😊. Thanks as always for your support. I should have part 2 of the new Speccy build up in the next few days
As others say, avoid cheap Chinese solder, I buy Duratool solder from CPC for around £4.00 or if in a hurry the same 50g reel from B&Q for £11.
Thanks Phil
one thing that does seem to be missing is flux. flux will also help clean your tip.
You're right John. I get flux everywhere but forget to put some.on the tip for cleaning 😂
Geeze, I don't know what I am doing right! I have been using $8 Amazon Special irons for years. I have never used such a complex soldering iron. I have always been very happy with the performance too. That being said, and after reading these comments, I abuse my stuff like crazy!
My iron is currently 3.5 years old now. Still using the tip that was on it when shipped, never cleaned the tip with anything iver than steel wool. Always have the temperature maxxed. Never care how I put it away... just turn it off and clean it next time. I have left it on, accidentally, for over 24 hours. I think my question is... why is it still working like new? I do buy super cheap solder, but I do actually get good flux. From my own experiences over the past 23 or 24 years, I can not understand why anyone would pay more than $15 for an iron. Unless you're working with some super sensitive components. I have not found any yet, tho the most complex chips I use are 74 series logic.
It seems to me that the cheap irons and tips are better than the expensive ones. At least I see people needing to clean and take care of those tips, whereas mine I put away and abuse and it never dies! Maybe im just lucky, but ive been through several irons and never paid more than $15 bucks for one. They always last for years with the original tip. Dont know why.
Thanks for the comment there, Brad. It gave me a good chuckle.
I think there's definitely right and wrong things to do,and I've drifted into the latter. That said, I think I've more of an idea going forwards (hopefully 😂). My super cheap little station did and still does work really well, but as soon as I changed the tip, the performance was suddenly garbage. I don't think you have to spend the earth to have 'good' equipment, I just think you need to have the basics skills to look after it.
My old setup, I never changed the tip. It was just what it came with. I think I was just lucky in not messing it up. I never tinned after use or cleaned it properly and it just kept plodding on 😂. But putting into practice some good tips and cleaning regimes and my Yihua is like new again. All the issues I was having have disappeared. Let's see how long that lasts 😂
soldering is a very simple concept that is difficult to do.
_"Soldering, sir, is a delicate art."_
-- Marconi (said to a man while holding a blow torch and a 2.5 Kg bar of lead)
I think that's the trap I fell into, believing it to be simpler than it was.
However, it has been satisfying overcoming those frustrations and getting more or less to the bottom of it.
I think what is interesting is having watched a ton of videos on it now, not everyone agrees on everything. I'm just glad I'm back on track!
What solder would you recommend? I have to try wean myself off the super cheap stuff as I'm sure that doesn't help
You're having a problem with something called, "wetting". An iron tip has to be tinned but it also has to be wet. Just silver isn't really enough. It is the wetness of molten solder that couples heat. You said people add solder to the tip. That's wetting it. But the solder can't just ball up on the tip. It has to be wet on the surface of the tip. The tip has to be wet. Once a tip turns black it's difficult to recondition it. Without a molten solder pot it's virtually impossible to retin an oxidized tip. Although I've never fooled around with that sal ammoniac stuff which supposedly can do it? I just use the dip method. Which definitely works. I've heard of people shimming those T18 style tips you have with slivers of soda can. Mostly people have moved on to integrated heating element tips today. The T12s and T100s. I like Kester solder. As far as sponges go you want to use a damp sponge not a soaking wet one. Some don't like sponges at all. But I think if used right they're OK.
That's for the comment Paul. Yes I think I'm finally getting my head round it I think 😂. Time will tell though!
I'm still on the super cheap solder at the moment as I've blown my budget for this month on bits for the Speccy build, but it's on my list of things to sort.
Those T12 irons do look really good. It's something I will definitely try get my hands on at some point.
I'll try practice more with the wetting. It's a balance I guess between none and a huge blob 😂
The sponge lowers the temp of hte tip too much
Someone suggested on Facebook that NASA engineers use blue roll instead of a sponge. I'm going to give that a whirl. Even if it's rubbish, it will come in handy for many other things 😀
Congratulate yourself! you have indeed discovered the problems, you are rubbish at soldering and your equipment is junk! :)
No seriously you are on the right track now, just some further pointers to steer you right.
No you dont need a more powerful soldering iron, ALL your problems are down to the heat from the ceramic element NOT getting to the work. The sloppy fit of the cheap bits being the main culprit but even with the proper branded stuff that system of replacement bits it about the worst there is. I have a old (50 plus years old) Weller TCP iron, 50 watt, and its bits are slightly tapered so you get good contact when you screw the outer cover back on. Today the better idea that most manufacturers have gone to is the cartridge system where the bit and element are all one bonded piece. More expensive but amazing performance, even allowing you to rework boards at sub 300 degree temps to stop pcb damage.
Like other have commented, never leave your tip naked! never, not hot, not cold. ALWAYS have solder on your tip! You only wipe the tip and re-tin it just before you are going to solder. The tip cant oxidize if there is solder covering it.
One thing I think I see you do incorrectly is you dont apply the freshly tinned surface of the tip to the joint you are working. It seems to be facing skyward! Apply the cleaned, tinned surface to the joint!
Hope this helps.
Hi Bazzaar. Thanks for taking the time out to comment.
I think the more I have learned from what I have suspected with the loose fitting tips and the comments from you guys, is that the cartridge types are the future. They do seem brilliant. I might have to try one of the cheap versions at some point (I know, I should.save up for a Hakko but that's just not realistic at the moment).
I do hope my soldering is coming across clearly on film (whether it's right or wrong 😂). It should show the cleanly tinned side of the iron heating up the joints..
Either way, I hope you'll join me for part 2 of my Spectrum build. Hopefully you'll see some improvements 😁
@@RetroComputingReboot I have the cheapest of the cheap T12 kits off ali and it's fine. I think it was under $13? But you have to supply your own PSU. So I bought that off ali too. I think it cost another $5 and change? I mounted it all in an old PC PSU enclosure. Because I was too cheap to buy something.
I wonder why anybody still uses soldering iron without T-12 style integrated tips. This is crazy for me. Any cheap t12 soldering iron has soooooooo much better performance, instant on, reliability etc.
Hi Marcin, thanks for the comment. I've been looking at the T12 style irons. They do sound really good. I'd love to give one a try at some point.
The reason I didn't go for one when I bought this set up is I'd never heard of them, plus starting out, I wouldn't have appreciated the difference they could make.
Definitely something I'll save up for to try at some point 👍
Yeah I have a cheap put it together yourself T12 iron from aliexpress and the performance is solid. I got the 5 amp PSU for it. I think that makes it 75 Watts? I went with the old 7 segment style one. I've thought about picking the oled screen one up too.
Never buy Jinhu solder. I tried it and it seems a fake solder. It's certainly not 63/37. There are videos on this stuff comparing it to genuine leaded solder.
There are good cheap Chinese solders out there, like Kaina and Dmiotech. My recommendation for cheap stuff is Mechanic solder. 👍
You'll see a huge difference once you get soldering with some good quality solder.
I think your right. I've just never used some 'good' stuff. The joints are always dark coloured too, never shiny. I'm going to have to use up what I've got though, as if I buy more solder, there's less to spend elsewhere 😕
That cheap solder from ebay , Ali express is garbage i bought some myself and it seems the lead content is a lot lower than claims and when it melts it melts all lumpy
i bought myself some copper tips and tinned them myself they work so much better than those iron ones that come with the machine.
Thanks for that and taking time to comment. I strongly suspect that the cheap solder has been hampering my soldering. The issue I've had is I've only ever used the cheap stuff so never had anything to compare.
I do need to bite the bullet though and try some decent stuff 👍
@@RetroComputingReboot th-cam.com/video/17VmfE3CavE/w-d-xo.html
@@RetroComputingReboot yeah that solder you're using could be bunk. Something is stopping you from getting a truly wet soldering tip. Just melting solder isn't enough. Solder has to flow. The way solder is balling up on your tip isn't right. The surface tension has to break. What you want is a thin film of molten solder on your tip not just that silver dryness you got going on. But silver dryness is better than blackness. Once a tip goes black you're done. They can be recovered but it's not easy. What I do then is I shine them up and dip them into molten solder. But I have a solder pot so I can do that. Without molten solder to dip the tip into it's virtually impossible to retin them. Because as the tip heats up it'll oxidize again before any solder has a chance to melt onto it. People coat tips in flux and wrap solder around them and that might work? But it's iffy.
I use 370 ℃ and of course you need to clean them. I use a wet sponge and clean it after every soldering. Before i turn my solder iron off i put a bit solder on the tip and this will make the tip nice and clean the next time i want to use it.
I have been using a wet sponge for 40 years and before that my father for another 20 years, so it will not damage your tip or make it oxidize more.
I do look like your solder iron is crap and you have too low temperature.
Does the solder have a rosin core?
Hi thanks for the comment 👍
I actually quite like my iron now I've managed to resolve some of the issues I've been having but I'm under no illusion there will be much better units out there. It's just that they are beyond my budget for now.
I'm trying to discipline myself with my tip cleaning routine as I am prone to forgetting 😂
The solder I use is pretty poor, I'm convinced of that now. There seems to be very little flux in it. I am going to invest and try getting some better quality solder. I'm hoping that will make a big improvement too. 🤞