For Christmas sake I'm tired of hearing people whine about these replicated watches. Who would buy a lux watch on the street corner, ebay or a pawn shop? And if you're not buying it from an AD and your purchasing it on the secondary market you'd better get it from a known and reputable dealer and have it authenticated, or don't buy it. Who buys a used BMW without taking the vehicle to a BMW certified-mech and having them check it exhaustively and completely? Stop your crying when you get a so called "great deal" and you did not do your due diligence.
I don’t have anything against folks that BUY clones or “replicas” when they know what they’re buying and don’t try to fool anyone otherwise. Some people just genuinely love that look but can’t justify spending thousands for a time telling bracelet. It’s when people try to SELL fakes as if you’re getting an unbelievable deal on a real watch.
This is absolutely true. But in my opinion this is the role that Homage watches should play. You can have that exact look and feel on the wrist but that logo should not be telling a lie. This is where you cross the line in my books.
@@marcusflack1523 splendid point. I stand behind my Duro collection like it’s my pride and joy; i’m a big guy so a 44mm $50 Sun homage is literally picture perfect and I love them but I love the look of a classic, tough dive watch. I don’t care what logo is between the hands and the twelve. But I definitely think I’d feel gross wearing a dive watch that I liked the looks of if it was pretending to be something it wasn’t. Idk, that doesn’t bother some folks and as long as it’s not a situation of “Yeah so and so has an awesome Submariner… Wait, it’s fake? He said it was real!” (which infuriates me lol), i’m glad they’re happy then.
Completely agree. Unobtainable wants/needs are a rationale for many. I work in pro audio where replicas of existing hardware is now a very common option for engineers when scarcity of an original means having to look at other options. Then there is the matter of the original (particularly vintage) being so knackered that it is good money after bad results to not consider modern well built quality options that attain similar or more often better results. Perhaps this desensitises an entire community of professionals to brand loyalty, which I think is truly absurd all things considered. In this circumstance, I’m referring to equipment needs, not really an option. Opinions will vary on this but the point remains and has become far less contentious in modern times. One of the things I believe applies to luxury items including watches, is that luxury is unnecessary and the indulgence is part of the price tag, it’s not purely quality, it’s absolutely more vanity and egotism. In pursuit of the aesthetic appeal is a devaluing integer in the whole equation, so the replica market responds accordingly. To refer to them as fakes is completely inaccurate and intentionally misleading. I have both on brand and replicas and I have no f*_ks to give about whether the replica is a bother to the aficionado community who regard unobtainable as luxury, that’s not the whole picture imho. I would be happy as a clam in dip to have a super clone minus the on brand logo because for me, I enjoy if not am mesmerised by the form and function of the aesthetic. I don’t wear a watch with any thought of what someone thinks of a watch I’m wearing, it’s 100% about me lol! Such a great episode. I think there is room in the watch world for both on brand and super replicas. I have super clones I got for around 1kAUD that are remarkably well built and I love them for all my own reasons. Watch brands also have a tendency to take themselves way too seriously. More brands really need to consider building multi tiered versions of their products if they are truly that bothered by the replica builders. The replica builders are actually no genuine threat to anyone and in some ways offer buyers are more realistic cost access to quality than on brands, it’s just a fact. Some brand’s really are just taking the piss with their pricing, I get it, they smell money and that’s what they want because creating the allure of luxury is just too easy for the experienced entrepreneur who is probably just as good at separating people from their money as they are at making a product. Again, great episode that could have been even better with perspectives from the super clone / replica world Thanks so much for the video To the AET sound person, please address the harsh sybillance that is borderline excruciating to listen on near field and headphones alike!! Mic placement is the fix but some stronger de essing /plosives control in post would be kindly appreciated ✌️ ❤
This episode perfectly describes why I buy Christopher Ward. The margin is 100% transparent and... it is fair. Marketing cost also is zero. You pay a great quality watch and you pay Chr. Ward a fair gain. The whole industry should be like that. That would give fakes no room. Ps: I guessed for the starbucks to be gen for the great cyclops. Shame on me. Lol
If Rolex would fix their supply chain/production issues so people could ACTUALLY buy models at retail price, and not have to look at the grey market where prices are 3x retail prices. If you could actually buy an OP 41mm at $6k in the store (or say 3-5 years ago, entry level Rolexes were sub-$5k) then the fake scenario wouldn’t occur to the same extent. I’ve been on a AD “waiting list” for 12+ months, and I’m not going to spend thousands buying other things I don’t want to get preference on the list.
For Christmas this year, my wife purchased a Pagani Design PD-1662 in root beer because I LURVE the GMT Master-II in the same colorway, but even were I to consider the Roller, I'd never wear it. I wear the PD wherever and whenever I want...it cost $130US. If it fails, it's inexpensive enough that I'll also do the calibre swap-out; it's not like I can reduce its value!
Nothing wrong with a Pagani "Design" (LOL) watch, I've got a PD 1664 (Panda Daytona) and I do wear it, but (and I have no idea how this works), it just doesn't feel special (probably 'cause it's not special!) like some other watches I've got do. When in reality I know it actually feels just like any other 120-160g steel, oyster bracelet watch. ***edit*** in fact I just did it, went to glace at the time on the Sub I "know" I'm wearing and I'd put the PD 1664 on writing this post then forgot, so it had stopped feeling cheap, cause the Sub wasn't cheap! ***edit***
@@WestCoastAce27 the Pagani "Explorer 2" really will "fake everyone out" cause no one expects to see an Explorer homage or fake, you presume it's real. And that Pagani is a 100% clone. You wear a Submariner or a Daytona (real, fake or homage) and someone WILL ask if it's real or fake, it'll get spotted. But an Explorer 2? You'll just presume it's real until you get so close as to see the logo. And that's closer than you think.
I own 3 AAA fake Rolex, I am on some sort of list with my AD but haven’t heard anything from them. I refuse to pay a flipper overs for a watch. The 1:1 replica watches are so close to the real ones hopefully in time it will stop flippers and allow us to go back to the time when you can just get the watch you want slightly off MRSP. And I work hard for my money and I can afford the real watch but hate flippers and dealer antics.
I owned a fake yachtmaster when I was in management and working in the shop. It eventually through an end link pin and shattered on the ground. I missed that watch so much I bought a real rolex to replace it, and decided to wear something else while at work. We all start somewhere...
I too once had a fake Tag Heuer from Bali when I was teenager. Wore it until the battery died (maybe like a year), but then was too embarrassed to get the battery changed! Really great discussion guys, absolutely loving the channel!
Found you guys today and have watched nearly of season 1 and some of season 2. Your content has definitely gotten better and I really enjoyed this episode and the one finding the best diver under 10K, 5k and 1k.
I’m happy that you guys keep things real. You stated if you made a mistake in your past and you acknowledge it. Thank you 🙏 you are great help to the community.
I enjoy micro brands and collaborations as much as some of my “brand” watches and as result there is not a need for a fake in my collection. You asked the question during the episode that is most important about a watch…”does it make you smile”! Rock you favorite watch, regardless of the logo on it! Thank you guys!
Bloody great proving re the smile side of things. Yes I myself are far more interested in finding a watch that resonates with just me. Not what resonates with a colossal marketing spend.
Andrew, spot on, w'ere being bummed by Rolex, the real Rolex is 7k because they spend 100's of millions advertising/marketing, per year, that's what we're paying for. Great debate guy's
Sounds like Longines needs to digitize it’s records in a searchable database. I’m glad I stumbled across this channel. Quickly becoming one of my favorite watch channels.
Grew up in the jewelry business and have a ton of experience with knock offs. We always lived by two mottos If they’re knocking you off, you’re doing something right. When they’re knocking you off, its time to start working on what comes next.
I love it when a billionaire’s kid shames people for buying a replica. If you’ve always loved a Rolex and can’t afford the real thing, go for it. This idea that you’re some kind of imposter speaks volumes about entitlement and privilege. Personally if I could buy a perfect 1:1 Zeitwerk I would do it in a heartbeat. My heart would leap with joy with every time change and I would love it for exactly what it was, a beautiful recreation of mechanical perfection.
@@marcusflack1523 That's my pleasure, thank you Marcus for all the great work you've been doing all this time to make this happen. Hands down the best watch podcast/youtube series ever. ✌🏼
What's the point of owning a luxury watch if you're not going to wear it? Well, where I live, you are subject to lose it at gun point. Therefore, having the original in a safe and a fake on my wrist outside the house makes sense.
I actually own a couple of San Martin watches and they are an exceptional build. I do believe they are built to look like it's a lot of very popular watches. However, the quality of their watches is impeccable
I liked it guys. Love the idea, loved season one but honestly haven’t enjoyed everything in season 2. But this was just right. Just talking, good topic. No stig etc.👌🏻
George never answered the question about the difference between his watches and the fake Heuer he purchased. He very deftly dodged it but didn't actually answer it.
The best use of a fake that I have seen is one of my friends has a couple really nice rolex watches and he keeps them safe, but wears the fakes out. So that he does not damage the originals. He only has the fakes as copy’s of the originals.
Genuinely interesting chat guys, thoroughly enjoyed it -it was refreshing to hear your honesty too about buying fakes in the past. My experience; I had a friend who travelled to China for work, and he asked if I wanted him to bring me back a watch - at the time I didn't own anything decent really, but aspired to. I asked him for a black ceramic Submariner... original I know. A few weeks later he returned and handed me the watch, for which I'd given him £60GBP for. And while it was a pretty "good" fake, I was filled with disappointment and regret. I wanted to capture that feeling of owning the watch I'd lusted after for so long, and when I had what I thought would do that for a fraction of the cost, it just did not give me that feeling - not out of snobbery, it just didn't feel right, it didn't give me that feeling of accomplishment, that feeling of owning something which will be around for longer than I will and can hand down to my children. I would never have lied to anyone if they asked if it was real or fake, and I wouldn't have been able to be comfortable with having to explain to someone why I'm wearing a fake - I wouldn't have a decent enough answer. That same day, I handed to the watch to my much younger brother who was delighted, and then a few weeks later, I stumped up the cash and bought a genuine Submariner for a good price at the time. This gave me all the feelings I'd wanted and sent me on a totally different journey with my watches from then on. It taught me, that no matter what watch it is, I couldn't bare to wear it if it was a fake. There's plenty of people out there who will tell you you're an idiot for spending that sort of money on a real one, and, even some, who if you gave them a real one, they would say "no thank's, I'd rather not be a chump who just spent 10 grand on a stupid watch, this replica will do". Good for them, but that's not me I'm afraid! Great show guys!
Great level of honestly there. And I think your sentiments will resonate with so many others out there in the watch game. Interesting how the fake seemed to motivate the actual purchase of the legit model hey. There is a comment about that tells a similar story from @TheCameltotem. Check it out.
I’m slightly ashamed to admit I’ve bought a fake watch before (with honest intentions). I bought a fake BB58 to wear for a few weeks to see if I liked the feel of it even after the ‘honeymoon phase’. I didn’t want to drop £3k on the real thing and regret it in a months time. Ended up buying the real deal of course… as for the fake, it’s sat in drawer with a kaput movement (of course) 😂
While fake watches are certainly trademark infringement, it’s amusing to me how much money is spent on a logo when you’re purchasing most Rolex models. When a high quality ETA based fake SUB can be purchased for ~$500 it demonstrates that you’re probably paying at least $7000 for a logo. While I don’t support brand theft, I have less sympathy for a company like Rolex which could put measures in place that would allow customers to purchase a watch from an AD.
Rolex don't want the fake watch industry to go away, they sell all the watches they can make, the fake industry is free publicityand marketing for them. It doesn't hurt them one bit, they benefit from it hugely. As discussed at least 75% (very conservative estimate) of the Rolex's you see out in the world are fakes and most of those wearing them even if they do own genuine watches wouldn't buy a real Rolex (too expensive) or wouldn't wear one 8n that situation. Rolex would rather you wore a fake Sub than a real Tag that's for sure.
Hmmmmmm……..no ! First of all, all the clones are much, much lower quality. They excel at things that you can easily see (but also fall short there) and what you don’t see is in a completely different league. If you compare an ETA movement to a Rolex movement, then I probably just waste my time here. They are not even similar by a country mile. And then there is all the R&D and brand promoting, which is hugely expensive. They created something that is hugely successful, that is a HARD task. It’s easy just to copy from someone else. Without the R&D and the marketing, those clones would not exist too, you do realize that ? Also keep in mind that in watch world specs aren’t the most important. The cheap Casio G-Shock I’m wearing right now is better than any Rolex in any practical application.
Yeah it's true, when we buy a watch we pay for all their marketing we see along gran prix and the tennis... Would they still be king if they weren't so "reassuringly expensive"?
@@d3xmeisterhave you seen a fake 3235 movement, or a 4130, or 3285? All are 1-1 (bar the free sprung balance) and individual parts can be swapped out. In fact the latest clones are totally 1-1, everything can be swapped, it just fits and works.
Finally a good episode. Honestly i had a hard time enjoying the first few episodes of this season. Good work on this one, it felt like season 1 again :)
My issue with fakes is when a person or dealer knowingly sells a fake for the same price as the real watch. I feel like that's where most of these celebrities get duped. A lot of them really aren't watch people like that and would never be able to tell the difference between real and fake so they get played
I don't justify the purchase of fake watches. But at the same time I always wonder if it could be considered as a entry gate to the watch world. Greatings from a Bolivian fan!!
Sweet episode. Ive been ‘into’ watches for about a year. Ive had watches all my life though and I think before that point, if someone showed me a Rolex, fake or not, I would have assumed it was legit. Its only being in the ‘hobby’ more thats made me aware of fakes at all price points. Id say the average consumer who wants a *insert luxury watch name* will go for a fake if its cheap enough, to ‘flex’. Its the same as people who have a poverty spec Merc/BM just to say they have the badge!
First: You are really the best Watchcast 👍 I like the starbucks a lot. The dealer gives me only a laugh. So I buy a Steinhart hommage. Now a question myself, get I more fun from the original? For the saved money, I can buy a nice Tag 😉 Even two !
If you simply went to any gray market dealer or trade shows in your area, I'm fairly sure they'd be more than happy to humor you with any requests for an education and try on, and especially if it's to fill the need of buying a fake
I contend that a majority of watches labeled “Swiss Made” in the under $1,500usd range have mostly made in China components. This is especially true for micro brands.
I like building my own watch with parts, but it’s made me realize how much we overpay for brands… sometimes 10x price for just the brand name using same movements
As a new viewer of your channel [brand new, but have ⌚️ ed a handful in past few days], who loves watches but can't afford them atm.. I'll relate it to my luv for sneakers.. I've had a larger collection, then downsized, but only really sold when I found myself in hard times.. I have been burdened with proving that my purchase was fake before, & have the knowledge and resources to buy the best 1:1 fakes, but have never done it for whatever reason. I also had a situation where someone owed me money and I took a good fake pair of a hype shoe, and then proceeded to wear them once over couple years, and they just sit in back of my closet now. It's a aj1 which I've got/ had real pairs with varying values, but I've worn them all regardless of how much society will change their market share.. I bought a $90 pair in 2016 at retail, which was $2-300 until Jordan documentary made them instantly $1000 & now close to double that.. but I still used them the most, and then after 100s of wears, sold for $400 in good condition/ sole in fair.. and I'll wear the real cheaper ones vs the brand new fake I can't afford the 1k+ real pair, cuz I have a passion for the community, culture, & personal experience.. but not the company who continues to wait close to a decade for bringing back their most cherished creations, & will do it in small #s & not in the stores who sell their normal products everyday. Even though they don't profit from the secondary market who sells them for way over retail, they are taking advantage of the free clout & marketing built in with the disdain of their own customers. They are already manufacturing in 3rd world and marking them up from $10 to $200, and have the ability to 10x the quantity, but will refuse to. To the extent that many fakes are made by the same factory, same leftover material, by same workers.. so it's a slippery slope, with many degrees of good, bad, and ugly, but I just operate in a space where it still makes me smile.. but I have an empathy of some of the reasons why fakes exist.. sorry so long winded, but I believe that's the reason why you made this a long form topic of podcast.. but keep it up, luv the videos and found a long term subscriber of me💯✌️
This was a great episode. Topic was on-point and all of you added perspectives/experience that make one think a bit deeper. On a more boring point, this was perhaps the easiest episode to watch. You maintained a nice casual tone, like a natural conversation, without stepping on each other and going down tangents. In other words, it was pro without looking forced. Keep going but as Teena Marie told Rick James, "Yeah, well, don't be too slick now!"
Great discussion guys. Early in my watch collecting journey I bought several fake luxury watches. At that time I fell for the hype surrounding luxury Swiss watches and there was no way I could afford the real thing. I was buying some of the best replicas available at the time and my first purchase was a Tag Heuer Link chronograph. I couldn’t believe the quality and feel of that particular watch which only encouraged me to buy more replicas. With each purchase however I discovered that the watches only had an illusion of luxury. Every subsequent watch had quality issues and many of them serious enough to prevent any enjoyment of the watch. I eventually had to admit to myself that I had wasted my money. I then discovered vintage watches and also the fact that I could get loads of enjoyment from watches at the more affordable end of the spectrum. I have been seriously collecting for over 15 years now. Along the way I have also managed to acquire a couple of expensive Omegas and I don’t really buy much these days as I’m very happy with my collection now.
My friend what a great end to your story. I love your honesty with how the purchases made you feel and interresting that the more you get into thiosgame the more the little things become deal breakers. But def so good that you have found the right way to play the game now. All the best Craig.
When you start collecting the natural desire is to want to build your collection quickly and you usually have your sights set on watches you cannot really afford. I think this is when the temptation of fake watches is very strong. If you can get past this temptation I have discovered it’s not just owning and wearing different types of watches that I enjoy but also the hunt to find the right one. This is especially true for vintage watches. My two favourite brands are Seiko and Omega which both represent excellent value for money.
I guess I don't travel in the 'right circles'. However I've noticed that most 'normal' people don't even seem to recognize if I'm wearing a 'luxury watch'. And then any 'watch people' who would actually care will probably realize it's a fake... So there doesn't seem to be ANY upside? Also, spending $500+ on a 'decent' replica just seems silly. If you're going to spend that much cash then there are many respectable 'real' watch brands to choose from...
It’s an interesting point that the fake market isn’t actually hurting the big brands due to the cost difference and online searches. Do you think the fake market is actually hurting Casio, Citizen, Seiko, and up to Hamilton and Longines? That maybe someone has $100-$2,000 to spend on a watch and is skipping over the quality entry level brands and going for the fake Rolex instead?
you make a great point and yes. If someone opts for the fake rolex for 600 bucks over a great microbrand for the same money then yes its hurting the little guys.
I have been thinking about why people would want to wear a fake watch but then I remembered the Rolex attitude from the majority of the stores if the average man goes into the store for a Sub they will not get one and it depends on who you are if you get the call, now that can be frustrating to the average user only to be tempted to buy a fake, or worst still get sold a fake without knowing and finding out when you take it for service. There are other watches but that fake Rolex you showed had alarm bells rining.
After seeing George's watch, I think to the market for the authentic parts of iced out watches, & the companies that don't cater for bands/ dials, which add to the Frankenstein market
I bought a fake Bell and Ross in Bangkok when I was 17 years old. I am not advocating that anyone should buy fakes but it was through that I learnt about other watch brands. Ironic as this may sound, it was the AAA and double AA replica markets that exposed me to the world of watches!
This is a repeating story in the comments. So many people where red this hobby through the world of fakes and now they have amazing collections of the real deal.
Guys you are great just found your channel - following now. One minor gripe (awesome content by the way) the heads on your logo should represent your individuality more. Three skulls is hard to differentiate at a glance) and also will won’t let you cross over into some territories in the east. try more cool characters using glasses, hair and t shirts and shirts. Ps. I’m in a highly creative business myself. Minor grip aside loving the show
Shocked by your intentional and unintentional fake stories. Expected none of you would have purchased one. Got 1 as a gift - Korean Datejust - ran for 25 yrs!
So, the watch costs £600 to make and “the marketing” costs £6,000 per watch??? 🤔 And even at £600 the counterfeiters are making a manufacturing profit too. Rolex hasn’t made a ‘new’ watch in decades - they spend £2.53 a year on R&D 😂 If you buy/wear a counterfeit no matter how good, or bad, it is, you’re only conning yourself and trying to do the same to anyone noticing what’s on your wrist. If you buy/wear a genuine example costing more than 10 times the price you’re getting conned by the brand… 😉😆 So, buy a Casio F91 instead 😁😂
Is it any wonder that there are so many internet searches for fake Rolexes? You can't get a real one. I know quite a few people that have the money for a real one, are stuck on an AD's waiting list possibly never to get a real one.
I have this personal rule when comes to watches, never trash (verbally or by selling it), at least for a LONG period of time (5-10 years), a watch that you were gifted, even if you hate it, or even if you don't use it, do not trash that watch, because a person that thought about you and your hobby cared enough to put down a significant sum for a watch. Now there's only ONE exception to that rule, and that's fake watches, I get why they bought them, either they didn't know or don't know enough to think that a fake will be harmful (like it seems in fashion), in that case, you need to politely and gently let them know and pass it on, maybe bin it, destroy it whatever, but don't sell it, cause it would be keeping the fake monster alive. Edit: I want to add the following, in that information process of telling them its a fake or the "poor" taste in watch gifting continues, use that moment to teach them about watches and your tastes in them, who knows, you'll maybe find a fellow watch nerd, or expand your taste in watches.
I would like to remind everyone who buys a fake watch because they can't afford it or dont want to pay for that real watch is that when you buy the fake one and put it on you STILL don't have the watch just remember that in fact now you threw away some of the money you could've use for the real one it's all an illusion.
Just remember when they make you buy 16 tudors and date justs to get on a wait list they’re still not the Daytona you actually wanted to buy, lol. Just remember that whenever you wear your Rolex shitters you bought just to get the good one you actually wanted.
I cannot per personally bash on anyone who buys a fake watch. Some people aspire to have "that watch" but will never be able to afford it and this may be the closest thing in reach. I personally would not buy a fake watch! There are so many good watches out there at every price range (I have gold plated vintage Seiko 5 that cost me £30) that there is no need to buy a fake watch but that it's all dependent on the person’s motivation for wanting the watch! One thing I have learnt over the years is the look of a watch can be way different to the feel of a watch when on the wrist so everyone should go out there and try on as many watches as possible and pick the ones that feel good and speak to them!!
When we were kids, it was proper flex to have a fake Tag, Breitling etc... Obviously no kid has the money for a one, so no one honestly believes you're wearing the real thing but the feel good factor is worth it. When you're an adult, not so much... On holiday in kusadasi in Turkey last summer, they had a street full of really nice boutique stores stocked with high quality fakes, boxes, papers the whole lot. Really quite a sight to behold... especially when accompanied by the 'real genuine fakes' sign 😁
Hahahahah they actually have the sign advertising the fake factor. “Ahhh lemme get one sub, one seamaster and one kebab with extra garlic sauce. I love garlic sauce.”
@@marcusflack1523 gotta love Turkey 🇹🇷 I think I'm right in saying that copyright infringement isn't illegal in Turkey which is why the fake stuff is so prevalent. Probably contributes a fair amount to it's tourism industry too
I wore a fake Rolex for 2 years in my early 20s nobody ever questioned it and ever asked if it was real or not ended up losing it at a music festival. I never had the desire to buy another. I just moved on to watchs more in my price range and hopefully, some day I’ll be able to buy a real one
I think this may be your best ever pre-recorded episode. There was a tone of sincerity and honest fascination in your consideration of the realm of fake watches. The best points revolved around the idea that some people feel the need to own the fake version of a brand to feel like they then have purchase on the tier which that brand represents. What is doubly tragic is that such self-delusion robs those people of the opportunity of owning a gorgeous watch that is within their grasp, like a Tudor Black Bay 36, the Baltic HMS 002 or the Khaki Field Automatic Murph, be it the 38mm or the 42mm. I see similar motions in the school I work in where the children need the brand, when something that is not a famous brand may offer an even better product. When the world is so governed by the need for the perception of quality over the reality of quality, then something is extremely wrong. A superb episode because the sentiment was so valuable and true.
You never disappoint me Raymond. Your degree and level of insight always pushes my thinking just that little bit further. Your point about attainable now watches is so on point. I think for many people buying fakes they actually have little to no idea of whats on offer out there in the watch world. They gravitate automatically to Rolex as its a household brand name in the watch game and they stop there. Thinking that somehow they have made a wise decision. hmmmm. But yeah there is so much quality on offer out there that is affordable, obtainable and very keepable (if keepable is a word)
@@marcusflack1523 Thank you Marcus. I just have never had any illusions about being able to afford something like a Rolex. I've set myself tiers of what I would like to own, mainly because I know what I can afford and what would carry me too far. You know, I hope he doesn't mind me saying so, but George really shone on this one. Everyone was on point, and extremely honest, but George had several fascinating stories to tell; they were amazing. I think it may have been Andrew who pointed out last week that the aim of a successful podcast is the feeling of being in the room and being involved in the conversation. I think that is absolutely true, and this week's episode nailed that sentiment. Also, keepable is a word, which is a shame because I thought you'd nailed a perfectly acceptable neologism.
I just recently bought the GP/Bamford Ghost - LOVE IT. 😍 I want to get the rubber strap too (I wonder if a black rubber strap would look good… What do you think?).
Why not. Contrast is going to be an awesome change up on that watch every now and then. It will feel completely new on your wrist so I think go for it. You can always change to something else when you get bored.
Thumbnail says can you spot a fake watch. but none of you talked about how to spot fakes. just one tip by Bamford to check the edges. about effing time you guys stay to the subject.
I personally absolutely hate the normalization of , so called , "homage" watches. Specifically the ones which are clearly just ripoffs with a brand-name stuck on so they don't get sued...
Trouble is that there are so many black bezel steel case and bracelet watches around these days even from established Swiss and Japanese brands that from ten feet away look pretty much identical that to me they all look like homage watches! To me a seamaster or Oris equivalent is just as much a homage as a Steinhart is. Fundamentally they all look the same. It would be nice for the established brands got a bit more adventurous, trouble is, most customers are not, they want a look!
Although I tend to agree, it should be noted that the oft copied Submariner is by definition a Mil. Sub. It's designed to a very narrow specification. In other words it's a formula and in that sense somewhat generic. Now does Rolex take it to a higher, more refined, unique level!? Yes! But, if you are designing a mil. sub., good luck making it look like something original. A perfect example would be A11 field watches; do they all look the same? Yes! Exactly! But, that's the brief. Regarding the Crocs and them being copied. First, they are rather generic so . . . . But, also, they have some limited editions that were designed by famous designers that are highly sought after.
Good episode as always. My 2 cents: even if you are talking about fakes from a humble point of view, you are not humble because still you have the privilege (or have the possibility) to buy relatively expensive watches (from a "commoner" point of view) which provide you alternatives to satisfy your needs. Secondly, Rolex for me is a business case I would love to understand. My dad spent his first salary buying a Day Date. 50 year ago it cost EUR84. I grew up infatuated with the brand. I finally bought my Rolex in 2014 when they were still "premium aspirational" watches (expensive but still "attainable" and with a price point in consonance for the steel watch you get). Since then, the constant prices increases (many of them totally unjustified from an inflationary or innovation point of view) coupled with the grey market have made me grow a feeling of resentment towards the brand. Rolex is taking advantage of this high demand to climb to the price echelon of the holy trinity without actually changing its product. And considering they are a "foundation", I think their margins are hefty enough to justify this "greedy corporate attitude". I am very happy about the appearance of micro brands and the role they are playing in providing watch enthusiasts with beautiful and good quality watches. I personally will not buy a watch from brands that bully their customers.
Wow. A very well thought out response from you here Adbove. So crazy to think you could once get a Rolex for under 100 bucks. It’s such a strange beast when you really look into it all and interesting to speculate as to who benefits on both sides of the fence. Micro brands are just awesome. The innovation we see from them as opposed to Rolex keeps this game super interesting doesn’t it. Strange that the biggest superpower in Rolex does not innovate anymore. They seem to be so scared of wrong footing themselves that it’s actually crippled them. They are now a sausage factory. All be it very refined sausages but sausages none the less. If that’s you flavour then go for it. But for so many of us out there me included. This is just not an interesting dish to be searched up. Th ask for the comment. Appreciate your feedback a lot. 😊
I know I will never spend 50k+ on a gold Rolex Smurf so I bought a Squale 1545 instead and it checks off all the boxes: sapphire crystal, nice blue sunburst dial, and a solid ETA movement. Plus I have the peace of mind I will never get robbed for my Squale. Who cares what people think…lol
This for me has been by far the most educational episode yet. I absolutely loved learning more about the fake watch market and yet I feel that a lot of us will come away far more vigilant. It's a terrifying ordeal and one which I can only feel sorry for George in his situations. I loved this episode so much and it's a nice change from the more casual episodes. Keep up the great work👊
Ahhh fantastic that it hit the mark for you George. Yeah this was a great ep for us here with so much to dig into. Thanks for watching and commenting. Means a lot to hear how people like you respond to the content we make. 😊
Great video as usual guys. Hate the whole fake watch game if you can’t afford the real thing buy something else cool in your budget. Watch lovers don’t care about value. I would love to know in the next therapy session from GB just how he didn’t realise that GMT Bakelite bezel was fake when he received it just from the colours and finish cause he obviously has far more experience than most people.
I searched for fake Rolex watches before I bought a GMT Master II because I wanted to make sure I know what mistakes they make so I can be sure mine is real. Many people would be doing this and it may explain why the number of searches are so high. I did the same before I bought my Omega Seamaster.
@@marcusflack1523 no I did not. But by searching I learned that fake omegas don't have a black balance wheel etc. So when I finally bought a watch I was sure it was real. Fakes are so good these days that there is always an element of doubt even when buying from a reputable dealer. It's a shame that this is the state of affairs
One thing I was wondering if you guys were going to talk about was the point Adrian made about "feeling dirty" wearing a fake. Where does that feeling come from? Is it internal, or external? And additionally, what about the "dirtiness" of brands (specifically Rolex) who will not sell their goods to regular consumers? Rolex doesn't encourage or promote pure commerce (which should be free of prestige and classism), so if Rolex is bring "dirty" in this way, does it make it okay to wear their fakes?
Hmmm I think that dirty feeling comes down to the way you view yourself. I cant speak for Adrian, but for me to wear a fake today would jest never work. To me the point of this watch game is to attain and aspire for that real piece that ticks so many boxes for me. And looking down knowing it aint the real deal just makes me say to myself....What are you doing man? What are you saying by wearing that thing? But each to his own I guess.
Great content, but the pie chart is vastly simplified. Yes, there is the manufacturing cost, but you have R&D, Marketing, sales, operations, modern day software to run a company, building facilities, labor for all departments, health insurance for employees, environmental waste, it goes on and on. Rolex has to scale volume of sales to make this business model work. If they were to disclose their balance sheet, I think you would see this business is enormously expensive to run. best, Mr Valjoux
Bought a fake B&R 03 92 off a work colleague for 100 notes I had it for two years it's now in bits. Also bought an AP royal oak offshore for 100 notes. Had it for 18 months, glass broke and is now also in bits. That was the last fake I bought.
Great episode, but you left out one extremely important consideration - the proceeds from the sales of counterfeit goods (including but not limited to luxury watches) fund some of the worst people on the planet, including organized crime, cartels, and international terrorists.
Omega does this certification but they charge a lot for it something like 800 swiss francs plus VAT... so IMHO they do this as an additional revenue stream and nothing more
Ziarex must be stopped at all costs. People are losing money since their mega clone watches started to be sold as originals on the aftermarket.
For Christmas sake I'm tired of hearing people whine about these replicated watches. Who would buy a lux watch on the street corner, ebay or a pawn shop? And if you're not buying it from an AD and your purchasing it on the secondary market you'd better get it from a known and reputable dealer and have it authenticated, or don't buy it.
Who buys a used BMW without taking the vehicle to a BMW certified-mech and having them check it exhaustively and completely?
Stop your crying when you get a so called "great deal" and you did not do your due diligence.
@@designated_hitter_EGANobody has a bmw checked by a certified mechanic 😂😂😂
I don’t have anything against folks that BUY clones or “replicas” when they know what they’re buying and don’t try to fool anyone otherwise. Some people just genuinely love that look but can’t justify spending thousands for a time telling bracelet. It’s when people try to SELL fakes as if you’re getting an unbelievable deal on a real watch.
This is absolutely true. But in my opinion this is the role that Homage watches should play. You can have that exact look and feel on the wrist but that logo should not be telling a lie. This is where you cross the line in my books.
@@marcusflack1523 splendid point. I stand behind my Duro collection like it’s my pride and joy; i’m a big guy so a 44mm $50 Sun homage is literally picture perfect and I love them but I love the look of a classic, tough dive watch. I don’t care what logo is between the hands and the twelve. But I definitely think I’d feel gross wearing a dive watch that I liked the looks of if it was pretending to be something it wasn’t. Idk, that doesn’t bother some folks and as long as it’s not a situation of “Yeah so and so has an awesome Submariner… Wait, it’s fake? He said it was real!” (which infuriates me lol), i’m glad they’re happy then.
Completely agree. Unobtainable wants/needs are a rationale for many. I work in pro audio where replicas of existing hardware is now a very common option for engineers when scarcity of an original means having to look at other options. Then there is the matter of the original (particularly vintage) being so knackered that it is good money after bad results to not consider modern well built quality options that attain similar or more often better results. Perhaps this desensitises an entire community of professionals to brand loyalty, which I think is truly absurd all things considered.
In this circumstance, I’m referring to equipment needs, not really an option.
Opinions will vary on this but the point remains and has become far less contentious in modern times.
One of the things I believe applies to luxury items including watches, is that luxury is unnecessary and the indulgence is part of the price tag, it’s not purely quality, it’s absolutely more vanity and egotism. In pursuit of the aesthetic appeal is a devaluing integer in the whole equation, so the replica market responds accordingly. To refer to them as fakes is completely inaccurate and intentionally misleading. I have both on brand and replicas and I have no f*_ks to give about whether the replica is a bother to the aficionado community who regard unobtainable as luxury, that’s not the whole picture imho.
I would be happy as a clam in dip to have a super clone minus the on brand logo because for me, I enjoy if not am mesmerised by the form and function of the aesthetic. I don’t wear a watch with any thought of what someone thinks of a watch I’m wearing, it’s 100% about me lol!
Such a great episode. I think there is room in the watch world for both on brand and super replicas. I have super clones I got for around 1kAUD that are remarkably well built and I love them for all my own reasons.
Watch brands also have a tendency to take themselves way too seriously.
More brands really need to consider building multi tiered versions of their products if they are truly that bothered by the replica builders. The replica builders are actually no genuine threat to anyone and in some ways offer buyers are more realistic cost access to quality than on brands, it’s just a fact.
Some brand’s really are just taking the piss with their pricing, I get it, they smell money and that’s what they want because creating the allure of luxury is just too easy for the experienced entrepreneur who is probably just as good at separating people from their money as they are at making a product.
Again, great episode that could have been even better with perspectives from the super clone / replica world
Thanks so much for the video
To the AET sound person, please address the harsh sybillance that is borderline excruciating to listen on near field and headphones alike!! Mic placement is the fix but some stronger de essing /plosives control in post would be kindly appreciated ✌️
❤
This episode perfectly describes why I buy Christopher Ward. The margin is 100% transparent and... it is fair. Marketing cost also is zero. You pay a great quality watch and you pay Chr. Ward a fair gain. The whole industry should be like that. That would give fakes no room. Ps: I guessed for the starbucks to be gen for the great cyclops. Shame on me. Lol
As a customer, could you give a brief rating of your opinion
@@detgoat Could you tell me more exactly what you mean with that. I would be happy to do that for you.
Micro Brands are cheaper because they are Micro Brands.
If Rolex would fix their supply chain/production issues so people could ACTUALLY buy models at retail price, and not have to look at the grey market where prices are 3x retail prices. If you could actually buy an OP 41mm at $6k in the store (or say 3-5 years ago, entry level Rolexes were sub-$5k) then the fake scenario wouldn’t occur to the same extent. I’ve been on a AD “waiting list” for 12+ months, and I’m not going to spend thousands buying other things I don’t want to get preference on the list.
For Christmas this year, my wife purchased a Pagani Design PD-1662 in root beer because I LURVE the GMT Master-II in the same colorway, but even were I to consider the Roller, I'd never wear it. I wear the PD wherever and whenever I want...it cost $130US. If it fails, it's inexpensive enough that I'll also do the calibre swap-out; it's not like I can reduce its value!
Nothing wrong with a Pagani "Design" (LOL) watch, I've got a PD 1664 (Panda Daytona) and I do wear it, but (and I have no idea how this works), it just doesn't feel special (probably 'cause it's not special!) like some other watches I've got do. When in reality I know it actually feels just like any other 120-160g steel, oyster bracelet watch.
***edit*** in fact I just did it, went to glace at the time on the Sub I "know" I'm wearing and I'd put the PD 1664 on writing this post then forgot, so it had stopped feeling cheap, cause the Sub wasn't cheap! ***edit***
My GMT "Root drink" came a few days ago. Banger of a watch. Just ordered the Lefty diet sprite, should be arriving in 2 weeks lol
Ditto. Fakes everyone out. Have the Pagani Explorer II Polar also. Very solid body, bracelets are nothing amazing and will probably be what fails.
@@WestCoastAce27 the Pagani "Explorer 2" really will "fake everyone out" cause no one expects to see an Explorer homage or fake, you presume it's real. And that Pagani is a 100% clone.
You wear a Submariner or a Daytona (real, fake or homage) and someone WILL ask if it's real or fake, it'll get spotted.
But an Explorer 2? You'll just presume it's real until you get so close as to see the logo. And that's closer than you think.
@@WestCoastAce27 I guess...I don't want to fake anyone out...I like the look and won't afford the Roller...
I own 3 AAA fake Rolex, I am on some sort of list with my AD but haven’t heard anything from them. I refuse to pay a flipper overs for a watch. The 1:1 replica watches are so close to the real ones hopefully in time it will stop flippers and allow us to go back to the time when you can just get the watch you want slightly off MRSP. And I work hard for my money and I can afford the real watch but hate flippers and dealer antics.
You sir make perfect sense.
I owned a fake yachtmaster when I was in management and working in the shop.
It eventually through an end link pin and shattered on the ground.
I missed that watch so much I bought a real rolex to replace it, and decided to wear something else while at work.
We all start somewhere...
Same here, bought rep first ended up with the gen.
So many stories in the comments with the same ending. Seems the fakes drive many people to the real thing anyways.
I too once had a fake Tag Heuer from Bali when I was teenager. Wore it until the battery died (maybe like a year), but then was too embarrassed to get the battery changed! Really great discussion guys, absolutely loving the channel!
"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, and fool me three times you're f**ked."
- George Bamford 2023
Love it!
Great episode chaps.
That should be on a t shirt.
Tombstone vibes 🪦
Third time, completely f*cked🤘
@@marcusflack1523 I think so
This was gold.
Found you guys today and have watched nearly of season 1 and some of season 2. Your content has definitely gotten better and I really enjoyed this episode and the one finding the best diver under 10K, 5k and 1k.
Welcome aboard!
I’m happy that you guys keep things real. You stated if you made a mistake in your past and you acknowledge it. Thank you 🙏 you are great help to the community.
fanbloodytastic feedback. Glad this is hitting the truth mark for you.
Great episode as always guys. I would never buy a fake willingly but those 1:1 clones are scary. Like you say a reputable seller is key.
I enjoy micro brands and collaborations as much as some of my “brand” watches and as result there is not a need for a fake in my collection. You asked the question during the episode that is most important about a watch…”does it make you smile”! Rock you favorite watch, regardless of the logo on it! Thank you guys!
Bloody great proving re the smile side of things. Yes I myself are far more interested in finding a watch that resonates with just me. Not what resonates with a colossal marketing spend.
Andrew, spot on, w'ere being bummed by Rolex, the real Rolex is 7k because they spend 100's of millions advertising/marketing, per year, that's what we're paying for. Great debate guy's
BTW, I don't buy fakes, but I can understand the normal person that does, however the people/celebs that can afford them, meh!
They don't do any advertising the stupid people do it for them for some discount
@@قناةالحقيقة-م8خ Watch any tennis open. Rolex pays tons in advertising.
Sounds like Longines needs to digitize it’s records in a searchable database.
I’m glad I stumbled across this channel. Quickly becoming one of my favorite watch channels.
Actually I believe they have digitised it. Its a free service now if you have a longines they can look it up for you.
Oh yes because computers can't be hacked. Can they, well done you have just legitimatized half the fakes
Grew up in the jewelry business and have a ton of experience with knock offs. We always lived by two mottos
If they’re knocking you off, you’re doing something right.
When they’re knocking you off, its time to start working on what comes next.
Now thats a bloody good motto. Seems like its served you well Michael.
I love it when a billionaire’s kid shames people for buying a replica. If you’ve always loved a Rolex and can’t afford the real thing, go for it. This idea that you’re some kind of imposter speaks volumes about entitlement and privilege.
Personally if I could buy a perfect 1:1 Zeitwerk I would do it in a heartbeat. My heart would leap with joy with every time change and I would love it for exactly what it was, a beautiful recreation of mechanical perfection.
Yeah….but it’s still not the real thing.
Is that watchmaker a Stig fake or a Stig homage?
This is such an underrated comment.
or Stigs lovechild
Love the new season, it's on another level. Keep up the good work and looking forward to your next livestream. Your biggest fan from Iran, Sam ✌🏼
Bloody awesome IRAN....YOURE THE MANNNNNm SAMMMM. Thanks for watching
@@marcusflack1523 That's my pleasure, thank you Marcus for all the great work you've been doing all this time to make this happen. Hands down the best watch podcast/youtube series ever. ✌🏼
What's the point of owning a luxury watch if you're not going to wear it? Well, where I live, you are subject to lose it at gun point. Therefore, having the original in a safe and a fake on my wrist outside the house makes sense.
I actually own a couple of San Martin watches and they are an exceptional build. I do believe they are built to look like it's a lot of very popular watches. However, the quality of their watches is impeccable
And your the richer for it!! Cheers!
“GP- it’s mouthwash for the eyes”, good lord where did that come from! Thanks for sharing bits of your collection!
I liked it guys. Love the idea, loved season one but honestly haven’t enjoyed everything in season 2. But this was just right. Just talking, good topic. No stig etc.👌🏻
George never answered the question about the difference between his watches and the fake Heuer he purchased. He very deftly dodged it but didn't actually answer it.
The best use of a fake that I have seen is one of my friends has a couple really nice rolex watches and he keeps them safe, but wears the fakes out. So that he does not damage the originals. He only has the fakes as copy’s of the originals.
Buying a watch you’re afraid to wear means you can’t actually afford the watch and you shouldn’t have bought it.
Genuinely interesting chat guys, thoroughly enjoyed it -it was refreshing to hear your honesty too about buying fakes in the past. My experience; I had a friend who travelled to China for work, and he asked if I wanted him to bring me back a watch - at the time I didn't own anything decent really, but aspired to. I asked him for a black ceramic Submariner... original I know. A few weeks later he returned and handed me the watch, for which I'd given him £60GBP for. And while it was a pretty "good" fake, I was filled with disappointment and regret.
I wanted to capture that feeling of owning the watch I'd lusted after for so long, and when I had what I thought would do that for a fraction of the cost, it just did not give me that feeling - not out of snobbery, it just didn't feel right, it didn't give me that feeling of accomplishment, that feeling of owning something which will be around for longer than I will and can hand down to my children. I would never have lied to anyone if they asked if it was real or fake, and I wouldn't have been able to be comfortable with having to explain to someone why I'm wearing a fake - I wouldn't have a decent enough answer.
That same day, I handed to the watch to my much younger brother who was delighted, and then a few weeks later, I stumped up the cash and bought a genuine Submariner for a good price at the time. This gave me all the feelings I'd wanted and sent me on a totally different journey with my watches from then on. It taught me, that no matter what watch it is, I couldn't bare to wear it if it was a fake.
There's plenty of people out there who will tell you you're an idiot for spending that sort of money on a real one, and, even some, who if you gave them a real one, they would say "no thank's, I'd rather not be a chump who just spent 10 grand on a stupid watch, this replica will do". Good for them, but that's not me I'm afraid!
Great show guys!
Great level of honestly there. And I think your sentiments will resonate with so many others out there in the watch game. Interesting how the fake seemed to motivate the actual purchase of the legit model hey. There is a comment about that tells a similar story from @TheCameltotem. Check it out.
That was nice of you to shoutout Jody. Love his videos as somebody who can't afford Rolex, Omega, Vacheron, Zenith, etc.
I watch his stuff plenty myself. I think hes great!
I love Jody’s videos but I didn’t know he was on this
I’m slightly ashamed to admit I’ve bought a fake watch before (with honest intentions).
I bought a fake BB58 to wear for a few weeks to see if I liked the feel of it even after the ‘honeymoon phase’. I didn’t want to drop £3k on the real thing and regret it in a months time.
Ended up buying the real deal of course… as for the fake, it’s sat in drawer with a kaput movement (of course) 😂
No shame in buying a fake watch. Buy fake watches!!!
While fake watches are certainly trademark infringement, it’s amusing to me how much money is spent on a logo when you’re purchasing most Rolex models. When a high quality ETA based fake SUB can be purchased for ~$500 it demonstrates that you’re probably paying at least $7000 for a logo. While I don’t support brand theft, I have less sympathy for a company like Rolex which could put measures in place that would allow customers to purchase a watch from an AD.
Rolex don't want the fake watch industry to go away, they sell all the watches they can make, the fake industry is free publicityand marketing for them. It doesn't hurt them one bit, they benefit from it hugely. As discussed at least 75% (very conservative estimate) of the Rolex's you see out in the world are fakes and most of those wearing them even if they do own genuine watches wouldn't buy a real Rolex (too expensive) or wouldn't wear one 8n that situation.
Rolex would rather you wore a fake Sub than a real Tag that's for sure.
Hmmmmmm……..no ! First of all, all the clones are much, much lower quality. They excel at things that you can easily see (but also fall short there) and what you don’t see is in a completely different league. If you compare an ETA movement to a Rolex movement, then I probably just waste my time here. They are not even similar by a country mile.
And then there is all the R&D and brand promoting, which is hugely expensive. They created something that is hugely successful, that is a HARD task. It’s easy just to copy from someone else. Without the R&D and the marketing, those clones would not exist too, you do realize that ?
Also keep in mind that in watch world specs aren’t the most important. The cheap Casio G-Shock I’m wearing right now is better than any Rolex in any practical application.
Yeah it's true, when we buy a watch we pay for all their marketing we see along gran prix and the tennis...
Would they still be king if they weren't so "reassuringly expensive"?
@@d3xmeisterhave you seen a fake 3235 movement, or a 4130, or 3285? All are 1-1 (bar the free sprung balance) and individual parts can be swapped out.
In fact the latest clones are totally 1-1, everything can be swapped, it just fits and works.
@@fontyyy Hmmm, no. I’ve seen them. What you say only apply to some simple parts. They are far, far from being “1 to 1”
Finally a good episode. Honestly i had a hard time enjoying the first few episodes of this season. Good work on this one, it felt like season 1 again :)
Have no fear. There are plenty of amazing eps to come. It’s only getting better from this point.
I loved this episode, I am glad I have found you
Ahhh awesome that its hitting the mark for you Maria. More to come.
As a native Detroiter, I am so proud of Shinola. I have the Runwell watch you showed on B role.
My issue with fakes is when a person or dealer knowingly sells a fake for the same price as the real watch. I feel like that's where most of these celebrities get duped. A lot of them really aren't watch people like that and would never be able to tell the difference between real and fake so they get played
Until they take their watch to get serviced. Then the truth hurts. Ouch.
Just binged all of these over the last 2 days or so. Absolutely love it! Would love to hear your thoughts on watch modding, like seikos for example
Best episode so far. Good job
Adrian’s Australian accent is about as real as the watches in this episode.
🏆
I don't justify the purchase of fake watches. But at the same time I always wonder if it could be considered as a entry gate to the watch world. Greatings from a Bolivian fan!!
Def on the money there. Check out the comment above from @TheCameltotem. His story is exactly what you are talking about.
Sweet episode. Ive been ‘into’ watches for about a year. Ive had watches all my life though and I think before that point, if someone showed me a Rolex, fake or not, I would have assumed it was legit. Its only being in the ‘hobby’ more thats made me aware of fakes at all price points.
Id say the average consumer who wants a *insert luxury watch name* will go for a fake if its cheap enough, to ‘flex’. Its the same as people who have a poverty spec Merc/BM just to say they have the badge!
I own two watches over 20k and I bought two good replicas to wear in public..
First: You are really the best Watchcast 👍
I like the starbucks a lot. The dealer gives me only a laugh. So I buy a Steinhart hommage. Now a question myself, get I more fun from the original?
For the saved money, I can buy a nice Tag 😉 Even two !
I would buy a Aliexpress homage just to see if I liked the fit of a watch before buying the real thing.
If you simply went to any gray market dealer or trade shows in your area, I'm fairly sure they'd be more than happy to humor you with any requests for an education and try on, and especially if it's to fill the need of buying a fake
Can we make "Gerald Genta" be the new version of drink every time George says "Tag Heuer"?
Bloody hell you’re right. Gents gets a mention almost every ep. What an incredible legacy he left hey.
The #1 watch podcast in Virginia USA! 😎
Yesssss Virginia
I contend that a majority of watches labeled “Swiss Made” in the under $1,500usd range have mostly made in China components. This is especially true for micro brands.
Psychology 101, status
I like building my own watch with parts, but it’s made me realize how much we overpay for brands… sometimes 10x price for just the brand name using same movements
That’s the story on especially every Mass produce item in every industry unfortunately.
Really that sounds like fun. I wanna do this one time for myself as well. What’s the Frankenstein watch that you have built?
As a new viewer of your channel [brand new, but have ⌚️ ed a handful in past few days], who loves watches but can't afford them atm.. I'll relate it to my luv for sneakers.. I've had a larger collection, then downsized, but only really sold when I found myself in hard times.. I have been burdened with proving that my purchase was fake before, & have the knowledge and resources to buy the best 1:1 fakes, but have never done it for whatever reason. I also had a situation where someone owed me money and I took a good fake pair of a hype shoe, and then proceeded to wear them once over couple years, and they just sit in back of my closet now. It's a aj1 which I've got/ had real pairs with varying values, but I've worn them all regardless of how much society will change their market share.. I bought a $90 pair in 2016 at retail, which was $2-300 until Jordan documentary made them instantly $1000 & now close to double that.. but I still used them the most, and then after 100s of wears, sold for $400 in good condition/ sole in fair.. and I'll wear the real cheaper ones vs the brand new fake I can't afford the 1k+ real pair, cuz I have a passion for the community, culture, & personal experience.. but not the company who continues to wait close to a decade for bringing back their most cherished creations, & will do it in small #s & not in the stores who sell their normal products everyday. Even though they don't profit from the secondary market who sells them for way over retail, they are taking advantage of the free clout & marketing built in with the disdain of their own customers. They are already manufacturing in 3rd world and marking them up from $10 to $200, and have the ability to 10x the quantity, but will refuse to. To the extent that many fakes are made by the same factory, same leftover material, by same workers.. so it's a slippery slope, with many degrees of good, bad, and ugly, but I just operate in a space where it still makes me smile.. but I have an empathy of some of the reasons why fakes exist.. sorry so long winded, but I believe that's the reason why you made this a long form topic of podcast.. but keep it up, luv the videos and found a long term subscriber of me💯✌️
Welcome 🙏🏻
This was a great episode. Topic was on-point and all of you added perspectives/experience that make one think a bit deeper. On a more boring point, this was perhaps the easiest episode to watch. You maintained a nice casual tone, like a natural conversation, without stepping on each other and going down tangents. In other words, it was pro without looking forced. Keep going but as Teena Marie told Rick James, "Yeah, well, don't be too slick now!"
Hahahaha yesssss we may finally be finding our best angles. But def appreciate the feedback Mitch. It does mean a lot for our development. 😊
This was a absolutely great video, you guys are the best
Ohhhh thanks Chris. Great to have u along for the ride.
Great discussion guys. Early in my watch collecting journey I bought several fake luxury watches. At that time I fell for the hype surrounding luxury Swiss watches and there was no way I could afford the real thing. I was buying some of the best replicas available at the time and my first purchase was a Tag Heuer Link chronograph. I couldn’t believe the quality and feel of that particular watch which only encouraged me to buy more replicas. With each purchase however I discovered that the watches only had an illusion of luxury. Every subsequent watch had quality issues and many of them serious enough to prevent any enjoyment of the watch. I eventually had to admit to myself that I had wasted my money. I then discovered vintage watches and also the fact that I could get loads of enjoyment from watches at the more affordable end of the spectrum. I have been seriously collecting for over 15 years now. Along the way I have also managed to acquire a couple of expensive Omegas and I don’t really buy much these days as I’m very happy with my collection now.
My friend what a great end to your story. I love your honesty with how the purchases made you feel and interresting that the more you get into thiosgame the more the little things become deal breakers. But def so good that you have found the right way to play the game now. All the best Craig.
When you start collecting the natural desire is to want to build your collection quickly and you usually have your sights set on watches you cannot really afford. I think this is when the temptation of fake watches is very strong. If you can get past this temptation I have discovered it’s not just owning and wearing different types of watches that I enjoy but also the hunt to find the right one. This is especially true for vintage watches. My two favourite brands are Seiko and Omega which both represent excellent value for money.
I guess I don't travel in the 'right circles'. However I've noticed that most 'normal' people don't even seem to recognize if I'm wearing a 'luxury watch'. And then any 'watch people' who would actually care will probably realize it's a fake... So there doesn't seem to be ANY upside?
Also, spending $500+ on a 'decent' replica just seems silly. If you're going to spend that much cash then there are many respectable 'real' watch brands to choose from...
That zenith is a thing of beauty!
It’s an interesting point that the fake market isn’t actually hurting the big brands due to the cost difference and online searches. Do you think the fake market is actually hurting Casio, Citizen, Seiko, and up to Hamilton and Longines? That maybe someone has $100-$2,000 to spend on a watch and is skipping over the quality entry level brands and going for the fake Rolex instead?
you make a great point and yes. If someone opts for the fake rolex for 600 bucks over a great microbrand for the same money then yes its hurting the little guys.
Hilarious Crocs higher than Nike and Adidas regarding fake list🤦♂️Excellent content guys👍👍👍
I have been thinking about why people would want to wear a fake watch but then I remembered the Rolex attitude from the majority of the stores if the average man goes into the store for a Sub they will not get one and it depends on who you are if you get the call, now that can be frustrating to the average user only to be tempted to buy a fake, or worst still get sold a fake without knowing and finding out when you take it for service. There are other watches but that fake Rolex you showed had alarm bells rining.
After seeing George's watch, I think to the market for the authentic parts of iced out watches, & the companies that don't cater for bands/ dials, which add to the Frankenstein market
I'm terrified of buying a fake watch. It's holding me back from buying anything used and not from a boutique.
buy second hand from trusted sellers
I bought a fake Bell and Ross in Bangkok when I was 17 years old. I am not advocating that anyone should buy fakes but it was through that I learnt about other watch brands. Ironic as this may sound, it was the AAA and double AA replica markets that exposed me to the world of watches!
This is a repeating story in the comments. So many people where red this hobby through the world of fakes and now they have amazing collections of the real deal.
Guys you are great just found your channel - following now. One minor gripe (awesome content by the way) the heads on your logo should represent your individuality more. Three skulls is hard to differentiate at a glance) and also will won’t let you cross over into some territories in the east. try more cool characters using glasses, hair and t shirts and shirts.
Ps. I’m in a highly creative business myself. Minor grip aside loving the show
Shocked by your intentional and unintentional fake stories. Expected none of you would have purchased one. Got 1 as a gift - Korean Datejust - ran for 25 yrs!
Hell yes, another episode!!! Question, when are Bark & Jack straps back? Ivw got a new hamilton khaki auto that is begging for one
Thanks guys, another rocking episode. Take care. Cheers
Hi, guys been wondering for some time, where do you get the wall clocks on your wall?
So, the watch costs £600 to make and “the marketing” costs £6,000 per watch??? 🤔 And even at £600 the counterfeiters are making a manufacturing profit too. Rolex hasn’t made a ‘new’ watch in decades - they spend £2.53 a year on R&D 😂
If you buy/wear a counterfeit no matter how good, or bad, it is, you’re only conning yourself and trying to do the same to anyone noticing what’s on your wrist. If you buy/wear a genuine example costing more than 10 times the price you’re getting conned by the brand… 😉😆
So, buy a Casio F91 instead 😁😂
hahahah Casio F91.....no wait list there as well. 😉
I never understood why people get upset at what others do with their money. Why would I care if you bought a fake Rolex or if you bought a real one.
The best thing about clones and homage Rolex watches are their quality and price.
well... fakes are here to stay. Punkt! Only issue i have with is payin as they are original. Other than that... Keep rollin AET!
Is it any wonder that there are so many internet searches for fake Rolexes? You can't get a real one. I know quite a few people that have the money for a real one, are stuck on an AD's waiting list possibly never to get a real one.
I have this personal rule when comes to watches, never trash (verbally or by selling it), at least for a LONG period of time (5-10 years), a watch that you were gifted, even if you hate it, or even if you don't use it, do not trash that watch, because a person that thought about you and your hobby cared enough to put down a significant sum for a watch. Now there's only ONE exception to that rule, and that's fake watches, I get why they bought them, either they didn't know or don't know enough to think that a fake will be harmful (like it seems in fashion), in that case, you need to politely and gently let them know and pass it on, maybe bin it, destroy it whatever, but don't sell it, cause it would be keeping the fake monster alive.
Edit:
I want to add the following, in that information process of telling them its a fake or the "poor" taste in watch gifting continues, use that moment to teach them about watches and your tastes in them, who knows, you'll maybe find a fellow watch nerd, or expand your taste in watches.
I would like to remind everyone who buys a fake watch because they can't afford it or dont want to pay for that real watch is that when you buy the fake one and put it on you STILL don't have the watch just remember that in fact now you threw away some of the money you could've use for the real one it's all an illusion.
nailed it
Just remember when they make you buy 16 tudors and date justs to get on a wait list they’re still not the Daytona you actually wanted to buy, lol. Just remember that whenever you wear your Rolex shitters you bought just to get the good one you actually wanted.
BOUGHT = past tense: to buy
BROUGHT = past tense: to bring
Man. Boring episode, but i am here for it still, dont change I think im just grumpy today.....Cheers fellas
All good brett, it’s a marathon not a sprint doing this kind of show - different paces, different vibes
Love your honesty. Thats indeed our motto. Dont sweat it. Great to know your hanging in there with us.
@@marcusflack1523 Of course! I adore this podcast, and im confident that I will enjoy this at another date with a whole new perspective.
You also have one fan in El Salvador, Central America!
That is a place that I def want to go one day. I have been to many places in the world. you are def on my bucketlist. Thanks for watching!
Labor cost in China is super low..... thats why the price difference is justified. Also movement is definitely not as good as the genuine for sure.
I cannot per personally bash on anyone who buys a fake watch. Some people aspire to have "that watch" but will never be able to afford it and this may be the closest thing in reach. I personally would not buy a fake watch! There are so many good watches out there at every price range (I have gold plated vintage Seiko 5 that cost me £30) that there is no need to buy a fake watch but that it's all dependent on the person’s motivation for wanting the watch! One thing I have learnt over the years is the look of a watch can be way different to the feel of a watch when on the wrist so everyone should go out there and try on as many watches as possible and pick the ones that feel good and speak to them!!
When we were kids, it was proper flex to have a fake Tag, Breitling etc... Obviously no kid has the money for a one, so no one honestly believes you're wearing the real thing but the feel good factor is worth it. When you're an adult, not so much...
On holiday in kusadasi in Turkey last summer, they had a street full of really nice boutique stores stocked with high quality fakes, boxes, papers the whole lot. Really quite a sight to behold... especially when accompanied by the 'real genuine fakes' sign 😁
Hahahahah they actually have the sign advertising the fake factor.
“Ahhh lemme get one sub, one seamaster and one kebab with extra garlic sauce. I love garlic sauce.”
@@marcusflack1523 gotta love Turkey 🇹🇷
I think I'm right in saying that copyright infringement isn't illegal in Turkey which is why the fake stuff is so prevalent. Probably contributes a fair amount to it's tourism industry too
I wore a fake Rolex for 2 years in my early 20s nobody ever questioned it and ever asked if it was real or not ended up losing it at a music festival. I never had the desire to buy another. I just moved on to watchs more in my price range and hopefully, some day I’ll be able to buy a real one
Maturity is a hell ov a thing hey. Good luck on your future watch game John. Nice to have u along for the ride.
I think this may be your best ever pre-recorded episode. There was a tone of sincerity and honest fascination in your consideration of the realm of fake watches. The best points revolved around the idea that some people feel the need to own the fake version of a brand to feel like they then have purchase on the tier which that brand represents. What is doubly tragic is that such self-delusion robs those people of the opportunity of owning a gorgeous watch that is within their grasp, like a Tudor Black Bay 36, the Baltic HMS 002 or the Khaki Field Automatic Murph, be it the 38mm or the 42mm. I see similar motions in the school I work in where the children need the brand, when something that is not a famous brand may offer an even better product. When the world is so governed by the need for the perception of quality over the reality of quality, then something is extremely wrong. A superb episode because the sentiment was so valuable and true.
You never disappoint me Raymond. Your degree and level of insight always pushes my thinking just that little bit further. Your point about attainable now watches is so on point. I think for many people buying fakes they actually have little to no idea of whats on offer out there in the watch world. They gravitate automatically to Rolex as its a household brand name in the watch game and they stop there. Thinking that somehow they have made a wise decision. hmmmm.
But yeah there is so much quality on offer out there that is affordable, obtainable and very keepable (if keepable is a word)
@@marcusflack1523 Thank you Marcus. I just have never had any illusions about being able to afford something like a Rolex. I've set myself tiers of what I would like to own, mainly because I know what I can afford and what would carry me too far. You know, I hope he doesn't mind me saying so, but George really shone on this one. Everyone was on point, and extremely honest, but George had several fascinating stories to tell; they were amazing. I think it may have been Andrew who pointed out last week that the aim of a successful podcast is the feeling of being in the room and being involved in the conversation. I think that is absolutely true, and this week's episode nailed that sentiment. Also, keepable is a word, which is a shame because I thought you'd nailed a perfectly acceptable neologism.
I just recently bought the GP/Bamford Ghost - LOVE IT. 😍 I want to get the rubber strap too (I wonder if a black rubber strap would look good… What do you think?).
Why not. Contrast is going to be an awesome change up on that watch every now and then. It will feel completely new on your wrist so I think go for it. You can always change to something else when you get bored.
Please don’t buy fake. There is tons of cheap and cool legit watches.
Thumbnail says can you spot a fake watch.
but none of you talked about how to spot fakes. just one tip by Bamford to check the edges.
about effing time you guys stay to the subject.
I think your TH-cam name says it all.
@@marcusflack1523 you putting your picture and name in a YT id says a lot about you too 🤣
@@thetroll1887 TOCHE ON GUARDE, LETS DANCE....
I personally absolutely hate the normalization of , so called , "homage" watches. Specifically the ones which are clearly just ripoffs with a brand-name stuck on so they don't get sued...
Yes, and it's so uninspired, don't want one.
tap tap tap....(on your shoulder) Hey HorologicalHeritic. Its me Marcus standing in the ('we hate homage watches line') with you.
Trouble is that there are so many black bezel steel case and bracelet watches around these days even from established Swiss and Japanese brands that from ten feet away look pretty much identical that to me they all look like homage watches! To me a seamaster or Oris equivalent is just as much a homage as a Steinhart is. Fundamentally they all look the same. It would be nice for the established brands got a bit more adventurous, trouble is, most customers are not, they want a look!
Although I tend to agree, it should be noted that the oft copied Submariner is by definition a Mil. Sub.
It's designed to a very narrow specification. In other words it's a formula and in that sense somewhat generic. Now does Rolex take it to a higher, more refined, unique level!? Yes! But, if you are designing a mil. sub., good luck making it look like something original.
A perfect example would be A11 field watches; do they all look the same? Yes! Exactly! But, that's the brief.
Regarding the Crocs and them being copied. First, they are rather generic so . . . .
But, also, they have some limited editions that were designed by famous designers that are highly sought after.
Worrying amount of “watch enthusiasts” who love Pagani design and co.
Good episode as always. My 2 cents: even if you are talking about fakes from a humble point of view, you are not humble because still you have the privilege (or have the possibility) to buy relatively expensive watches (from a "commoner" point of view) which provide you alternatives to satisfy your needs. Secondly, Rolex for me is a business case I would love to understand. My dad spent his first salary buying a Day Date. 50 year ago it cost EUR84. I grew up infatuated with the brand. I finally bought my Rolex in 2014 when they were still "premium aspirational" watches (expensive but still "attainable" and with a price point in consonance for the steel watch you get). Since then, the constant prices increases (many of them totally unjustified from an inflationary or innovation point of view) coupled with the grey market have made me grow a feeling of resentment towards the brand. Rolex is taking advantage of this high demand to climb to the price echelon of the holy trinity without actually changing its product. And considering they are a "foundation", I think their margins are hefty enough to justify this "greedy corporate attitude". I am very happy about the appearance of micro brands and the role they are playing in providing watch enthusiasts with beautiful and good quality watches. I personally will not buy a watch from brands that bully their customers.
Wow. A very well thought out response from you here Adbove. So crazy to think you could once get a Rolex for under 100 bucks. It’s such a strange beast when you really look into it all and interesting to speculate as to who benefits on both sides of the fence. Micro brands are just awesome. The innovation we see from them as opposed to Rolex keeps this game super interesting doesn’t it. Strange that the biggest superpower in Rolex does not innovate anymore. They seem to be so scared of wrong footing themselves that it’s actually crippled them. They are now a sausage factory. All be it very refined sausages but sausages none the less. If that’s you flavour then go for it. But for so many of us out there me included. This is just not an interesting dish to be searched up. Th ask for the comment. Appreciate your feedback a lot. 😊
I know I will never spend 50k+ on a gold Rolex Smurf so I bought a Squale 1545 instead and it checks off all the boxes: sapphire crystal, nice blue sunburst dial, and a solid ETA movement. Plus I have the peace of mind I will never get robbed for my Squale. Who cares what people think…lol
This for me has been by far the most educational episode yet. I absolutely loved learning more about the fake watch market and yet I feel that a lot of us will come away far more vigilant.
It's a terrifying ordeal and one which I can only feel sorry for George in his situations.
I loved this episode so much and it's a nice change from the more casual episodes.
Keep up the great work👊
Ahhh fantastic that it hit the mark for you George. Yeah this was a great ep for us here with so much to dig into. Thanks for watching and commenting. Means a lot to hear how people like you respond to the content we make. 😊
Fascinating opinions. Just incredible points of views. Great job lads
What about a video all about the best looking/fitting bracelets and strap options, other than Bark and Jack nato straps?
But that would mean we can’t shill our own products??
@@AboutEffingTime And it would mean that Adrian would have NOTHING to say.
I paused the video. I believe the green one is fake. The cyclops magnification looks under powered.
Here’s a good topic… what makes a watch a strap monster? What are the best strap monster watches?
Hey thats a great shout. Im gonna discuss this with the lads.
What is the watch worn at the start of the video?
Great video as usual guys. Hate the whole fake watch game if you can’t afford the real thing buy something else cool in your budget. Watch lovers don’t care about value. I would love to know in the next therapy session from GB just how he didn’t realise that GMT Bakelite bezel was fake when he received it just from the colours and finish cause he obviously has far more experience than most people.
Good question Maddy. I will try to remember to ask that question in therapy next week.
I searched for fake Rolex watches before I bought a GMT Master II because I wanted to make sure I know what mistakes they make so I can be sure mine is real. Many people would be doing this and it may explain why the number of searches are so high. I did the same before I bought my Omega Seamaster.
Wow. So you bought a fake to educate yourself? Was it a super clone or something super cheap?
@@marcusflack1523 no I did not. But by searching I learned that fake omegas don't have a black balance wheel etc. So when I finally bought a watch I was sure it was real.
Fakes are so good these days that there is always an element of doubt even when buying from a reputable dealer. It's a shame that this is the state of affairs
Loved the episode, thanks for the great content!
An absolute pleasure to have you on board Justusbuscham.
One thing I was wondering if you guys were going to talk about was the point Adrian made about "feeling dirty" wearing a fake. Where does that feeling come from? Is it internal, or external? And additionally, what about the "dirtiness" of brands (specifically Rolex) who will not sell their goods to regular consumers? Rolex doesn't encourage or promote pure commerce (which should be free of prestige and classism), so if Rolex is bring "dirty" in this way, does it make it okay to wear their fakes?
Hmmm I think that dirty feeling comes down to the way you view yourself. I cant speak for Adrian, but for me to wear a fake today would jest never work. To me the point of this watch game is to attain and aspire for that real piece that ticks so many boxes for me. And looking down knowing it aint the real deal just makes me say to myself....What are you doing man? What are you saying by wearing that thing? But each to his own I guess.
Great content, but the pie chart is vastly simplified. Yes, there is the manufacturing cost, but you have R&D, Marketing, sales, operations, modern day software to run a company, building facilities, labor for all departments, health insurance for employees, environmental waste, it goes on and on. Rolex has to scale volume of sales to make this business model work. If they were to disclose their balance sheet, I think you would see this business is enormously expensive to run. best, Mr Valjoux
Fake Crocs did it for me 😂. Great videos gents.
Can u believe it right. I mean how much cheaper could a fake croc be from the real thing???
Bought a fake B&R 03 92 off a work colleague for 100 notes I had it for two years it's now in bits. Also bought an AP royal oak offshore for 100 notes. Had it for 18 months, glass broke and is now also in bits. That was the last fake I bought.
Needing a fake Rolex because you get too drunk and keep falling and messing up your Rolex is THE definition of Rolex culture
Hahahahahahaah nailed it. Nailed it. It’s just so true.
Can we see that shooting a fake video anywhere ? Email ? FB ?
Adrian any secret link you wanna share?
Can you explain the Cathay Pacific collaboration? George “ waffling for 5 mins making no sense at all”
Great episode, but you left out one extremely important consideration - the proceeds from the sales of counterfeit goods (including but not limited to luxury watches) fund some of the worst people on the planet, including organized crime, cartels, and international terrorists.
Indeed you are correct. This is a very dark side of the conversation hey. Hmmmmm
Omega does this certification but they charge a lot for it something like 800 swiss francs plus VAT... so IMHO they do this as an additional revenue stream and nothing more