Jim Cornette on If Bret Hart Would Have Fit Into The Attitude Era
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- From Episode 244 of Jim Cornette's Drive Thru
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Bret Kickstarted the Era. He went from corporate all round goodguy champ to company hater. He legitimized Austins ring work and character faster by having their feud . Brets the man
Yep,he was cussing on live tv way before these morons in AEW were even born.
He kicked started the Era by forcing Vince heel. That's it. Bret was a good hand that was willing to work for peanuts.
This is 💯 correct
@@steveomac385 this may be the most wrong statement of all time congrats 👏
@@hanssprungfeld8487 no you. That was his one contribution. Austin was on his way regardless. I'll take it further his only major contribution to the business was the scew job. Then he spent 2 decades plus whining about it instead of realizing it was the one thing to get him over his whole career.
Bret was apart of the AE, and I don’t like that people try to rewrite history as if he wasn’t. Bret left in November ‘97, Shawn left a few months later, April. If Bret isn’t, Shawn isn’t.
Agree 100%
Absolutely. The creative direction was already there. Matches were violent, characters were already edgier, the red white and blue ring ropes were done. Bret would easily continue doing things like the Hart Foundation, anti-American gimmick, etc. The Foundation could have gone up against DX, The Nation of Domination, etc., and Bret alone still had plenty of main event mileage, and got on well with both Austin and Rock. Bret was there, and would've just continued being awesome.
Shawn actually overlapped the official start of it though (Vince announced the switch, complete with the logo change in December), so he was a part of it no matter what. Bret's involvement or lack there of doesn't factor in there.
Shawn came back multiple times and played roles during the Attitude era to major pops and Shawn launched it with DX.
@@Aliquickk-X This is true he did, from commissioner, to color commentator, to special referee, he did it all lol.
His USA vs Canada angle was essentially the catalyst for the Attitude era. There’d be no DX, Austin vs McMahon, or blatant cheering for Heels without it!
It’s feels good to read someone who writes facts
I was going to say, how was he NOT part of the Attitude era? The Hart Foundation was also involved in that horrendous angle where DX framed them by writing "KFC" and other weird things in the Nation of Domination's locker room. One would also argue that "Austin 3:16" and the speech at the King of the Ring was the beginning of the Attitude Era, happens in early '96, Bret's not gone until late '97. So I don't think there's any question he could have fit in, maybe as a straightman to some of the nonsense, if he was in the main event picture/top of the card anyway he would have avoided it (Al Snow and Big Bossman or Val Venis and Kaientai weren't headlining PPVs)... if he was jammed in the midcard for some reason maybe he could have led Right to Censor... but if someone booked him right, they'd just make him more violent.
Could not have said it better myself. '97 Bret was fantastic.
@@ADoseofBuckley Lmao of course you watch Cornette (not meant to be a dig at you tho).
The NWO was the catalyst for attitude era
I've always believed that if Bret were around, it would've been him instead of Shawn that got the big match with Austin at WM14. The story would've been more fitting as their rivalry would've come full circle and Austin would've gotten that definitive win over Bret to ring in the Attitude Era.
Exactly.. the match would have been better and the story would’ve been tighter with Austin . For a long time Austin had no counterpart until The Rock was ready . Bret would’ve been that guy . Let’s not forget about the influx of Canadians in the next few months . There’s an argument this could’ve lead to a civil war within the Hart Foundation. Owen never does the Blue Blazer BS and is taken seriously … E&C , Test , Y2J , Lance Storm , and a guy I won’t name would have been a part of the conflict . Also , Kurt Angle is rising . Really the only person negatively impacted would have been HHH .
But HBK is the show stopper, the main event, the icon in professional wrestling!
@@Hsteel He is also the guy reigning during the start of the 83 weeks and trades the belt with Bret.
Lot's of nicknames not one of them is "household name".
@@darthbigred22 is this you bret??
@@Hsteel HBK is amazing. He was not great in 1997. Especially after the back injury that lead to his temporary retirement. HBK himself says that he was not in a good place at that time. That he was able to actually have a match with Austin is a miracle. I feel that Bret would have been a better match for reasons beyond that. Bret had two amazing matches with Austin, one of them being legendary. Bret was the victor both times. Austin beating Bret for the championship would have been the perfect end for that feud. It still would have been great to see a healthy HBK vs Austin match.
Bret is the most important person to the attitude era. He helped Austin, didnt let DX bury The Rock and helped create the Mr McMahon character indirectly. The attitude era also started before he left , even if it wasn't called that yet .
Thank you! I hate when ppl try to say the AE started at WM 14 when Austin won the title I always say it started after SS 97 so Bret was there for the first few months!
@@jabroni_z2686 No one can agree on when the AE started. Some say the "Austin 3:16" promo at KOTR 1996, some say Bret vs. Austin at WM 13, some say the ones you mentioned (SS 1997, Austin vs. HBK at WM 14). Still others say it was the Kliq Curtain Call at MSG in May 1996.
Did didn't try to bury the rock. The rock was doing that just fine on his own playing the baby face kiss ass riding his families name unearned
@@TheJohnnyCotts I say that the actual start of the Attitude Era was the Raw after WM 13. This was the first episode of the new RAW is War/War Zone hours and featured a full promotional shift in programming. Prior to this, there were segments and angles of an edgier manner starting in late 1995 and throughout 1996. All done in testing how audiences would react from the previous vanilla format. Pushing this change was primarily a need to keep up with WCW's ratings and attendance takeover with the NWO angle. This was mostly done with the Hart-Austin feud following KotR 96 (though I think the Mankind-Undertaker rivalry had a lot to do with it as well)... which lead to Bret getting screwed against Sid twice due to Austin's interference in the weeks leading to WM 13... thus costing him the WWF championship and losing the rematch inside a cage during the main event of the RAW before WM 13. In hindsight, Bret's promo cut after that match is what ushered in the Attitude Era the following week. At least in my opinion. Then you had Bret's turn on the American fans and setting up the new angle with HBK that would lead to the Screwjob during that RAW following WM 13.
There were other elements of creating storylines that would be the backbone of the Attitude Era during that show. Rocky Maivia's interview with his father where he drops the line that Farooq had been more of a father to him, only to have Bret Hart attack him after defending the IC title against Leif Cassidy and being helped out by Savio Vega (NoD member who would be in the next match). Owen Hart and Bulldog brawling after losing a match to the Headbangers, eventually leading to Owen challenging Bulldog for the European title... and down the road Bret having to get involved and bring them back together thus stoking the Canada V USA feuds that would happen later on. Mankind does a backstage interview announcing that Paul Bearer has left him. Bearer interrupts Undertaker's promo after winning the WWF title the previous night, asking to be taken back. Mankind shows up on the big screen asking for Paul to return to him... thus setting up their feud over Paul Bearer and the eventual angle that produced Kane and the infamous HIAC match the following year.
The Curtain Call only makes sense if you look at from the angle of Hall and Nash making it clear they were leaving for WCW, thus causing an early interest shift from WWF to WCW... which fueled the success of the NWO boom. Which in turn forced WWF to adapt a new strategy of full-promotional edgy programming. Even then, it's not the start of the era but more so the indication that such a change would come.
@@jabroni_z2686 it started with the nwo a year prior jabroni
When he had the "meltdown" and had those promos about Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, Sid Vicious. They were some of the best promos by anyone ever. Where is my opportunity is one of the best promos.
that WAS the attitude era imo or at least the beginning.
Don't forget Vince when he "quit"
Best promos ever? 🤣
Even though he had some "Sunny Days"
@@RG-lr4pk - You like Hulk Hogan 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I actually think Bret DID start the Attitude Era. His promo after WM13 and his killer promos in the Canada vs. USA rivalry was unbelievable. The the steel cage match promo where he cursed and shoved Vince was where I went, "ok, times are changing"....
This Is Bullshit!!!!
Bret hated that direction of wrestling he complained about it all the time, you are insulting him by saying this lol
@@firstroundboxing7649 Nah man, he didn't want to go WAY overboard. A lot of that AE shit was hotshotting and doing shit for the sake of it. WM13 was the exact perfect AE mix; gruesome, told a story and didn't get in to the shock bullshit that nuked the industry.
Bret Hart vs. Kurt Angle is the classic we never got 😞
And Owen lives
@@jkranites you're bringing that brutal truth, and exactly right.
The ultimate dream match I’ve always said it an absolute masterful clinic in wrestling it would have been
Probably greatest match ever
@@jkranites Owen being alive also means Martha Hart still has her husband so she isn't bitter at WWE. Owen gets put into WWE videogames (after WWF Attitude) and gets inducted WWE Hall of Fame (with no unhappiness from Martha).
id have prefered owen vs kurt angle tbh that would have been amazing
Bret would have fit perfectly in any era his promos were underrated. His work in 97 was some of the best promo work ever.
bret's promo skills really shined when he was mad about something...when he wasn't upset not so much
@@jrmichaels4648 his face promos are underrated
@@pleaseshutup7053 yeah but his bad guy promos were better because his passion showed through because he was fired up
@@jrmichaels4648 and it was just him being himself telling the truth. WWE has a history of bland babyface promos because they come off as fake. Hulk hogan nwo promos way better. Stone cold and the rock both of them were pretty much heels that got cheered. Heels will always be better promos in wwe because it feels like what they are saying is real
@@pleaseshutup7053 Yeah go watch "Wrestling with Shadows" Bret legitimately maintains in the film that he is leaving over HBK, how trashy WWF was becoming, and pay.
However I was a teen back then and Bret was lame. The "S" in front of Hitman was one of the best slams ever by SCSA.
Him and HBK were not cool and were considered "gay" by late 90s standards. The heels got cheered back then because we HATED HBK and Hart. The sissy prancing scrawny male stripper who won't shave his chest with his frilly earrings and the dork with the Michael Jackson-esque leather jacket with epaulets, a uni-shade, who was wearing hot pink long after it was cool for a guy to wear hot pink, and has the audacity to call himself "Hitman" . There's a reason you don't see anyone like those two after. The guys in the bright colors after that are a porn star and a pimp.
There's a reason they added Tyson in for the HBK fight, no one would have ever believed HBK was going to beat SCSA which is why they made it look like Tyson was going to fight SCSA alongside HBK.
Personally I wish Mr. Backlund would have been active during the Attitude Era. Imagine how much moral outrage that character would have gone off about.
He got a great pop at the 2000 Royal Rumble
I loved his unhinged character.
@@carter3369 he also managed Kurt early on
Imagine a feud with Austin
Heel backlund could've been great if he was properly used
Imagine bret hart vs Kurt Angle plus Austin would definitely want to work more with him.
imagine Jericho vs Bret in WWE 1999-2001
Angle was not there until late 1999. By then Bret would be tired, older,
@Phenomenal Ace Owen Hart tribute match!!!! Classic 5 star🤙🏼
@@OmegaRedFan pfft Brett did get tired until Goldberg basically destroyed him
@@OmegaRedFan Hart had several years left in him when Goldberg took him out. I think he could have come back after that still but after Goldberg, and Owen dying, and Pillman dying, and Davey Boy dying (after that), etc. I think he was just done with life until just recently.
Honestly, Bret staying would have resulted in a product that would probably still be seriously taken. Plus we probably wouldn't have had to deal with dx and the reign of terror post-attitude era.
Actually dx would have still formed but you are right Shawn's stress and over the top diva moments would have been drastically mitigated by him not being the only main event star carrying the whole company for years
He was an early contributor. Those promos with Shawn in 97 are proof!
I'd be more interested to see Bret after it, in the Ruthless Aggression era. Imagine him in the Smackdown Six era, just putting on workrate clinics weekly.
good point. i don’t think he suited the attitude era that much because he’d have to rely solely on his promos skills since
a lot of wwf fans at the time hated technical wrestling cause it was boring (you saw the way the booed kurt angle at first when he was going chin locks and holds).
Smackdown -02 was the first time in years that technical wrestling was on show so i would think he would excel there
@ Raveo
i think i read somewhere that Bret would have done a retirement angle with Randy Orton to help add to his legend killer, if 97 went differently
@John Dew I disagree. Main events needed more workrate as usually Austin struggled for good opponents until Rock was fully elevated. Vince siding with Bret and apologising for his lack of respect previously could have got the title back on Brets shoulders in late 98 , then Vince couldve screwed Bret leading to a big programme with Vince.
Him AND Owen
Didn't he technically return during Ruthless Aggression? Or was it already PG by then?
I'm pretty sure the Atittude Era started in '97 while Bret was still with the company... guess it depends on your definition of the Atittude Era.
I'd start it even before that, around Survivor Series 95 when Bret went through the first table in the WWF, the controversial Goldust just arrived and Sunny was now being sexualized. It sure took some time before the full blown explosion, but I'd say that's when the seeds were planted and started blooming.
For me the attitude era started with the outsiders first appearance on WCW. They were "attitude" and there whole start was that.
You really can't pin point when the attitude started honestly. Some say when goldust debuted, some say when Austin won the king of the ring, some say when Bret turn heel, some say when dx formed, some say when the wwf turned from raw to raw is war and changed the logo...who really knows.
@@Hsteel you forgot the most popular assumption, which was that it started at survivor series ‘97 or wm 14
@@thecorona1784 This a good point. Wrestling definitely was becoming more of a edgier product around 1996.
Lol Bret was there in the “attitude era”
He helped the two biggest stars in the industry when they were young. His rivalry with stone cold should not go unnoticed. He put over a young rock on tv and was mentoring him. Also the hart foundation with Brian pillman was definitely attitude era
How could he have been there for the Attitude Era when him leaving is what started it?
@@JMFSpike I think the start date should be the events leading up to the screwjob and not the screw job itself. For ex. Hell in the Cell occurred before the screwjob. Hart and Michaels had a real fight that technically isn’t part of the attitude era. Pillman’s and Austin’s rivalry isn’t considered part of the attitude era. Hart’s on air beat downs McMahon aren’t considered a part of the era.
@@JMFSpike Are you kidding? Watch In Your House Final Four and beyond. The night after the PPV Bret shoved Vince on his ass and yelled "Frustrated isn't the goddamn word for it! This is bullshit!" If that isn't attitude then I don't know what is.
@@quikdeath100 I'm just saying, Bret Hart's exit is what triggered the Attitude Era to officially become a thing. That doesn't mean that they weren't already transitioning into edgier content.
For the record, WWE claims it started December 15th, 1997 when Vince gave a promo officially declaring it. I think we can all agree that's too late. The way I see it, Survivor Series (November 9th, 1997) is what triggered the Attitude Era to go into full effect. But yes, there were elements of attitude here and there even before that. They were transitioning into it for sure.
No, Hart Foundation & Pillman was during the edgier, transitional part of New Generation. Like it or not, 1997 Raw is War before Survivor Series is still technically the New Generation
Bret's return after his WrestleMania 12 hiatus is what started the Attitude Era. He was feuding with Austin, Michaels, Taker and the Nation of Domination during all of 97.
Eh I attribute that more to Shawn but ya Brett was still a huge influence all the same
@@russelljordan7688 Nonsense. Shawn didn't even get involved until after the Hart-Austin rivalry hit white-hot leading into and after WM 13.
Bret vs Austin could've kept going for a couple years. Some version of the Hart Foundation could've also feuded with DX. Owen probably would've stayed in the Hart foundation and not turned into the Blue Blazer btw. Bulldog probably would've stayed in wwf and never got the back injury in wcw. Bret could've lasted into the early to mid 2000s in ring. I personally believe Brets stroke was related to his head injury he got in wcw. A lot would be different
It's very interesting to think about. Everything literally went to shit for him and his family when he left the WWE. Truly tragic.
If Bret stays in WWF, Owen stays alive. That's crazy.
@ Stevie
the Severe Concussion is part of why he had a stroke when Bret had his Bike accident
..totally agree Stevie brother
Considering that DX has it roots in the Canada V USA feuds that were sparked by Bret's turning on the American fans... we can say that those Foundation/DX feuds were already happening. Those Canadian teams were basically made up of the Hart Foundation, while they faced American teams featuring Shawn and HHH more often than not with Austin and Undertaker usually being the other two in the mix.
Bret had the biggest attitude of anybody. He would thrive in it.
Hbk would like a word with you.
😂😂😂
@Dino Vasiljevic hey, that wasn't nice
I would have loved a Bret/Owen tag team. They could have feuded with Edge/Christian; Jeff/Matt; Taker/Kane. Culd also add the Harts to all those TLC matches. Bret always wanted to do a big ladder match but never got to. After that, he could have had one last singles run against Angle then retire.
Sorry but Bret would not have been in those matches. It would have been Bulldog guaranteed
There is a Colosium Home Video of random WWF matches that has an Owen/Bret v The Steiner's match. 30 minute ddq and it is easily the best straight up tag team match I've ever seen from that company. Ever. Used to be on youtube, not sure if it still is.
Edit: That full match is on Facebook watch, tried to post it but it won't let me. It's worth the watch and is amazingly modern still.
@@jeffreymarksworld534 - Sorry but Bulldog would not have be in those matches. It would have been Brett gauranteed.
@@jeffreymarksworld534 BB/Owen would have probably remained the tag team, but they could have had 3 man tag teams with The Brood and the like.
@@MorpheusASmith yeah cause Bret and Owen teamed all the time right? No they didn't it was very rare when they teamed. If you know anything you know it would be Bulldog. You know nothing
Bret Hart was literally IN the Attitude Era. It started in 97 but honestly late 96 is when characters started to have an edge to them.
That Survivor Series '96 vignette that Austin did on Bret, plus Bret calling Shawn and Triple H homos on Raw was pretty much Attitude era
@@tylerneckbeard4294 exactly. The era was basically in effect way before vince used the term.
It was still the New generation just a little more edgy
Bret started the attitude era, go back when he grabbed vince on raw by the shirt collars and was cussing on a live tv. He was screwed in a cage match against Sid.
Those promos the following weeks were some of the best by anyone ever.
I feel like he was the main character in the story of transitioning from the PG era to the Attitude era. We saw him first as a guy who never broke any rules to a frustrated guy who still didn't want to break any rules, but he kept getting screwed by his opponents who were constantly breaking all the rules that he eventually had to start fighting fire with fire. He should have stayed in WWF in 1997 to keep that story going.
@@davidnec571
Yes this is exactly what I have been saying! Bret was basically WWE's Luke Skywalker...a WWE protagonist lol.
I know Bret and Shawn dont get the credit for the attitude era but they both kinda jumpstarted it. Bret with his anti American hero turn. And Shawn with the original DX. They kinda launched it and after they left 💩 just jumped off
I remember reports that Austin stopped allowing Russo to write for him after WMXV. Could easily see Bret doing something like that.
The Rock told him no a bunch of times. Said I'm not doing that and walked out.
I started watching in 98 just after Bret left. Having watched wrestling bios reliving the war I can say that mid 97 onwards was definitely early attitude era even if it wasn't branded as such. There was still a bit of new generation goofiness lower down the card but the main event scene was very attitude-ish.
Any Era with the nation of domination was definitely Attitude Era...
Wrestling Bios is lame ass
Yup, to this day the whole thing with the Hart foundation vs DX and Austin/Undertaker in the mix felt very Attitude-esque. Two heel factions facing off with real life tension behind the scenes felt more serious prior to anything the company had done.
Here's another thing:
Owen may not have died if Bret had stayed. I'm sure he would've gone to bat for him with Vince about going up in the rafters. Unless of course you believe in pre-destination, he may not have gone up.
Owen most likely wouldn't have been doing the dumb ass blue blazer gimmick if Brett were there.
@@joshuacobb2842 You're right.
Not just the rafters. If Bret had stayed, I doubt Russo would have saddled Owen with the Blue Blazer gimmick.
Bulldog would have also stayed and wouldn't have suffered that back injury that resulted in his downward spiral.
Bret was in early stages of the Attitude Era in 1997, and most people agree his work in 1997, especially promo-wise, was his best. In fact, his feud with Stone Cold, heel turn, formation of the Hart Foundation, anti-America angle, and the Hart Foundation's feud with Shawn and DX were all integral moments of the Attitude Era.
Some of my favorite moments was hom dressing down the 'degenerates', Michaels and HHH, i still laugh and Brett calling H a homo and H saying 'im mo queer'
Bret wasn’t a fan of the attitude era shenanigans. Especially the sexual innuendos. I just find it very hard to see Bret Hart in 1998 and beyond in WWF.
This!
Bret deserves more credit for helping kickstart the Attitude Era
I'll give him some credit with his contribution with the Canada US feud but that started to get old real quick in the fall of 1997
@@attiepollard7847 Bret was the first one to put his hands on Vince to help create the Mr. McMahon character.. he was the first big feud with DX who were the biggest WWE stable of the Attitude era and he had the biggest feud with Austin and responsible for putting Steve over to make him the biggest star of the Attitude Era..
@@2682shark yes but let's be honest though when Bret Hart left the flow of the matches started to get more fast pace. Does Bret Hart stayed I think those matches would have been slow as hell with this Canadian Strong style
I always figured Vince would have ended up as Mr. McMahon. They were setting a lot of it up before Bret left.¨
But of course, Montreal was the ultimate catalyst. I didn't watch WWF for the next 8 months.
Bret hart was calling out Vince as the owner in 97 when it was taboo. Also said “shit” on live tv
@Dino Vasiljevic yes he would and Austin would gladly loose the belt to bret as thanks for getting him into the world wrestling federation and being one of the main reasons he became a star even Steve has said this.
@@willjohnboy Don't Feed the Troll
@Dino Vasiljevic There's a little improvements you could make to your trolling. It's not bad, but your bait is too obvious, thus you won't receive as many reactions that you crave. You have to build it up to be a successful troll, not go full out in one comment.
@@kingslayer2999 says the king troll. You're hilarious dude.
Bret was an amazing worker. He would have had amazing matches with Austin and Taker throughout '98 - '01.
I’ve never understood the morons claiming Bret couldn’t cut a promo. Bret was never over the top-he was realistic. Everything he did screamed real. If he’d have stayed the Attitude era would have been miles better.
I think the real question is does the Attitude Era even happen if Bret stays? The Mr. McMahon character and his feud with Austin was a direct result of the screwjob. Also, would Bret be willing to step aside as thee top guy and let people like Austin and the Rock take that mantle? It’s fun to imagine Bret Hart thrown into the Attitude Era mix as the once pure hearted hero who has become cynical and jaded and is now the villain. And the matches and feuds he could have had with the likes of the Rock and Kurt Angle. But Bret staying in the WWF and the screwjob never happening drastically alters the history of wrestling to such a crazy degree I don’t think you can even begin to guess how things would have turned out.
I maybe would have given him a tag run with Owen. They would be intertwined with Taker and Kane somehow. End up maybe with Taker and Bret vs Owen and Kane---reluctant partners, etc.
Hot damn, that would have been absolute gold.
Bret would be fine as a heel to go with HHH and (sometimes)the Rock, Taker etc
Definitely, Bret was a very underrated heal with the anti-american angle.
Perfectly. He was already vs Mr. McMahon. Austin just slid into the role. We would have gotten Hart vs Angle...the ultimate dream match
Bret Hart pretty much started the Attitude Era..If he would have stayed
Bret vs Austin(return)
Bret vs Angle
Bret vs Rock
Bret vs WCW
Bret started the whole thing. He gave the whole "attitude" persona real longevity and believability with his rivalry and ring work with Stone Cold Steve Austin. It seemed legitimate and authentic
"IF" Bret would have stayed in the WWF in 1997-2001, the politics of the Cliq, the botched WCW Invasion along with the creative writing of Vince Russo would have drove Bret Hart to TNA Wrestling.
hart as a heel without doubt, his feuds with the likes of austin and the rock could have been legendary but hart as a face ? meh
Couldn’t be any more of a train wreck than his wcw run
nah
Bret had a hand in starting the attitude era. His fued with Austin, dx and him pushing Vince after the cell match and swearing on air
Bret should've been the one to face Stone Cold at WM 14!!! It would've been the perfect rematch from WM 13. Bret himself said that he was a WWF/WWE guy,not a WCW guy.
And Austin's first victory that didn't come from a DQ over Bret.
@@StephOMacRules True! All the what ifs.
@Phenomenal Ace Very true!
Bret staying would have significantly changed the WWF. No screwjob, no Mr. McMahon character, maybe not Austin vs McMahon, etc.
I'd like it to have played out the same way except after Bret is screwed over, he stays and Austin kinda takes up for Bret out of respect maybe.
The biggest change is Bret would never would have allowed Owen to do that stunt and Owen would have lived.
The McMahon character might still have been there. Vince already got stunned by Austin. He was started to get more and more involved with him during Austin's neck injury and inability to compete and Shawn was already pulling the curtain making more than clear allusions that Vince was the boss and owned the company in his promos.
Yea Austin during his injury was making the WWF authority, namely Slaughter and McMahon, heelish since people booed the crap out of them and went crazy when Austin flipped them off or Stunned them.
"Mr. Mcmahon" would've happened but just not as outright and instantly. It would've been more gradual. After the Bret/Shawn feud was blown off at RR, Bret was gonna be the one to pass the torch to Austin at WM 14.
I'm not sure if Bret would have Owen talked out of the stunt. I can imagine this is something Beret would think (and to be clear: I don't blame him), that he couldn't do anything because he wasn't there. You just don't know that.
If Bret had stayed, maybe the casket match at the Royal Rumble wouldn't have taken place, which means Shawn wouldn't have been hurt, which would make the whole think more interesting because it would have been interesting to watch if other talents like f.e. the Rock would have been where they were because of Shawn's backstage politics, and if Shawn's and Triple H's friendship had outlasted because sooner or later there would have been a conflict about who is the number 1 between them.
If I could change anything, I would have done the Screwjob, but Bret shouldn't have been injured by Goldberg and Owen shouldn't have died. That way Bret could have returned after his run in the WCW and would have had an awesome feud with Vince (and Owen would have lived happily in his dream home with his family seeing his kids grow up)
Bret Hart would not have fit in like Owen Hart did not fit in. Bret Hart was involved with all the top guys though (HBK, Stone Cold, Undertaker)
I mean he did spend a year in the Attitude Era (1997) and he fit just fine
No. Which is why he left. Bret has publicly stated that he felt the WWE was something he could no longer show his kids before he left.
Bret was so talented you could put him in any territory in any time period and he would not be out of place.
Except WCW lol
Would Vince have gotten the same amount of heat to be the ultimate heel against Austin?
Most definitely Bret would of fit into the Attitude Era. He already showed signs of it in 96 and 97.
I've wondered that too before what Bret would of been like though in the WWF at that time 🤔 Im curious now to see what the interactiom would of been like between him and The Rock.
Watch "Wrestling with Shadows", he hated the edgy stuff.
Bret was showing it way before that, refer my most recent post
Bret Mentioned he could have great matches with The Rock after he got his big break I would love to see Bret Hart vrs The Rock in 1998 or 1999 since Bret helped The Rock when he was Rocky Mavia. I'm sure Bret would have help bulid The Rock like he did with Stone Cold Steve Austin a year earlier in 1997 or Shawn Michaels in 1996
@@TheAaronChand Most definitely. I remember hearing Bret mentioned about when The Rock first entered the WWE, he said, "That guy is gonna be something one day." And man was he right.
Not only Bret pushing Vince and them locking up, but Bret also dropped some GD's and BS's before swearing was a regular thing.
I think 1997 Bret Hart was his best as a character. The cage match promo before Wrestlemania against Austin was his best promo ever and it was most attitude promo during the Attitude Era and technically it was slightly before that era.
Owen wouldn’t of been the Blue Blazer
Therefore, he wouldn’t of died
Sorry someone had to say it
I’ve always wondered what the Armageddon hell in a cell looks like if it’s
Stone cold Steve Austin.
The Rock.
The Undertaker.
HHH
Bret Hart
Kurt Angle.
Can’t convince me it’s the greatest hell in a cell ever if it has Bret. Instead of the pre determined spots that it became.
It would still have predetermined spots like every other match in history
Would've been cool.
Bret wouldn’t do that. Shawn would make more sense.
@@wereallscrewed9714 yes but the spots would make more sense.
lose the rock, put in Sid and it would be better
Bret wouldn’t have had to even do much of anything to fit, just play up the surliness, he would have been a superstar heel, the man was a total package performer.
I thought the HeartFoundation was apart of the attitude era.
You thought wrong
Bret Hart started the attitude ERA. That promo with him pushing Vince in the cage was the first time I saw some “attitude” on WWF television
But don't you think that this whole Canadian versus US angle was getting a little bit older and a little bit kind of lame in 1997.
100%!
He was in the attitude era, he started it
I hate when this question gets asked cause it’s bs Bret Hart is the one who kicked off the attitude era on 3 different occasions
1) the this is Bull S*** promo where he swore on tv which no one at the time did & he also in the same promo put his hands on Vince which no wrestler did up until that point
2) the double heel turn at wrestlemania & his decision to make Austin bleed which also wasn’t allowed at that point at all & that match put over Austin massively & created the Stone Cold Steve Austin character
3) when he spat on Vince’s face & created the Vince McMahon heel character
Also let’s not forget calling Shawn & HHH Homo’s 😄😂
So please would Bret fit in?
He helped create it massively
Bret would have been perfect for the Attitude Era because he was the antithesis for it. His character would be so out of place as basically a babyface out of time...essentially what Kurt Angle was going into 2000. And Bret was the ideal foil to Austin...recall that for all of '98 up until Rock's ascension at Survior Series, there was no real top heel other than Vince. Bret would probably have been bigger in '98 WWF than any other time in his career. And I'm sure would've continued on as a top star well into the 2000s. So many great matches we never saw.
I feel like a ton of people underestimate Bret's overall influence on the Attitude Era as a whole even if you wanted to argue that the attitude era started post SS97. His feud with Austin in late 96 and early 97 turned Austin face and both gave him credibility and helped him get over more (and if I remember correctly Bret was the one that saw potential in Steve Austin. His matches (along with HBK and Mankind) with Undertaker helped put him in good light after being in many awful feuds such as giant gonzalez, underfaker, ect. He put guys Rock, HHH, Shamrock, ect over on raw in 97 (granted those were ended in DQ, countout with outside help, and no contest respectively and rock was rocky mavia and hhh was just Hunter Hearst Helmsley at those times but still). Being that he was a face in everywhere but the U.S., the Hart Foundations feuds with Nation of Domination and DX (the factions that elevated rock and hhh respectively) helped add needed heat to the groups elevating them. Then the Montreal Screwjob added the heat to HBK that would ultimately help Austin be the beloved babyface by WM14 and turned vince heel creating the Mr. Mcmahon character from there on out. So without Bret, the many things we love about the attitude era wouldn't have existed without him.
Bret’s 1997 was amazing!
Makes me wonder if Owen would still be alive today had Bret stayed, I'm sure Owen wouldn't be wrestling to this day but at least he would be living
I always thought that when Bret went to WCW they should of formed a new Horsemen with Bret, Flair, Curt Henning and Bulldog to fight the nWo.
The four horsemen sucked by the time the nwo came out they were lame with old or lame jobbers. They should have formed the hart foundation instead
When Bret first started getting offers from WCW, Vince told him WCW wouldn't know how to book him properly. Vince was right.
Bret staying probably wouldve prevented rock or triple h from rising!! Also bret has spoken against attitude era many times.
Well he helped bring it in and was a massive part of it. Can only imagine great things. He would’ve carried on helping Austin, Rock etc
@Dino Vasiljevic I would say strange fanboy
@Dino Vasiljevic very healthy reaction!
@Dino Vasiljevic ok why has my reply to you disappeared all of a sudden? Im no fanboy mr keyboard warrior. Just appreciated good wrestling back in the day and appreciate Cornette's podcast. So instead of being poison be a decent human. I get youre not a Bret fan , not a problem but why sit here and wait for comments and reply insulting people? I wish you all the best
@@johnjedennett2206 thats a decent reply to be fair
@@DUFFYISBACK hey ✌ enough drama going on in the world shouldn't have to worry about getting insulted on shit like this. Not that ill lose any sleep over it but life is hard as it is this stuff here should be easy and abit of fun👍🤘
Montreal was needed to create Mr mcmahon. In an alternate universe the montreal screwjob and there is no austin vs mcmahon and we think of austin like hbk and undertaker someone wwe fans cherish but not someone who was a massive box office draw. Also Owen thankfully is still probably alive or at least would have lived a much longer life than he did.
Bret Hart would've been awesome in WCW during the 80's. Bobby Eaton, Great Muta, Barry Windham, so many matches that never were.
He ushered in the attitude era
What a stupid question
He did great with Austin and would've done great w Rock, DX, etc
Can you imagine Bret Vs Kurt Angle, Benoit, Guerrero ?
Well it's easier to imagine the Benoit match cause it happened
He worked with Benoit in WCW.
I love the match he had with Benoit, but it would have been so much better without those circumstances.
I would say yay because Brett could really say what's on his mind
I always thought in some way, Bret would've had Austin's place in the feud with Vince, turning back to a baby face Hitman but with an edge to him.
I think the logical conclusion of the Austin/Bret feud would have them finding common ground in hating Vince.
Mr. McMahon in some version would have come up because before Montreal Bret had pushed Vince, Austin had stunned Vince, and DX showed the footage of the Curtain Call to piss Vince off. I think Vince would have stayed on commentary longer, but the second Austin got the title from Bret, Austin would have goaded Vince into being Mr. McMahon.
A lot would have been different if Bret had stayed. The big question though is the powder keg between Shawn and Bret.
I would imagine Brett wonders what if he didn't leave just in regards to Owen.
Bret Hart WAS the Attitude Era. He started it, and his heel character was perfect for it.
We made the same comment at almost the same time. Well said and agree 100%. The Canadian hero Hart Foundation was fantastic.
Bret was literally the catalyst that put the attitude Era in motion.
I wonder how much longer Bret and Shawn could have coexisted together at that point. That situation might have been untenable, perhaps the contract situation was Vince's way of getting them away from each other for good.
Probably but if he knew Michaels would retire in 4 months he probably keeps Hart
Fit into the Attitude Era? Did you forget that he started the Attitude Era when he went heel?
Something else that would’ve happened if he’d stayed was Bret wouldn’t have had a meeting with Vince near the Hart Mansion, and Bret wouldn’t have told him that he would’ve convinced Owen not to go through with it.
Bret was so great he would be a major star in any era
Bret screwed Bret
@Dino Vasiljevic Hardly.
Yep Bret would have hated Shit Stain for sure lol
I have ben saying this for a while, the attitude era did NOT start with the Montreal Screwjob. It started with the King of the Ring in 1996, because that's where we first heard Austin 3:16. Trust me they were pushing the envelope LONG before Bret left the company.
king of the ring was the de facto and montreal was the official start
They would have had to give him Dr Deaths theme. Make him a heel and fued hardcore with Austin and Michaels. He would have done better than going to WCW. It sucks he didn't explore ECW short term.
If nothing else, Bret and Owen could have been a tag team and maybe Owen would have not been the Blue Blazer again, leading to his untimely death... wishful thinking 😑
😭😭
If Bret stayed there be no Austin
I kind of wish Bret would've been in the WWF during the Attitude Era. If he had stayed that heel Canadian role, I think he would've still been a contender for the world title and probably would've had some good feuds with The Rock or maybe when Bulldog got let go, him and Owen might've teamed up and been a dominant tag team and had a good feud with The New Age Outlaws. I could've even seen him being in The Corporation had Montreal not happened if and when all of the other Hart Foundation members left the company (aside from Owen). It's interesting to see if he had stayed...would Triple H have gotten pushed?
It's a good point, how would've Russo booked Brett if he did stay. He would've pushed back against anything stupid. Another thing too, if Russo tried to mess Brett's character and complain to McMahon, Austin, Taker, and Foley, among others, would be in Brett's corner 100%
I like to believe that had Bret Hart stayed in the WWF that WrestleMania 14 would've been a Hart/Austin rematch this time for the title & Bret would've put Austin over. They could've still brought in Mike Tyson to be the "enforcer" & maybe even had Tyson join the Hart Foundation saying he moved to Canada & stuff, then he could've counted the fall at Mania & punched Bret after the match. So basically everything they did with HBK but a lil different & way more professional..
I am curious what Jim has to say about the breaking news that Stephanie McMahon is stepping down. That came out of nowhere.
Oh shit. Had to google to confirm. She wants to focus on family. Hope all is okay.
Ikr?
Bret would've done a softer pillman impression
I would say, it would be Bret that drops the belt to Austin at WM 14. Then Bret would claim attitude era stuff was gross and fight people that were degenerates. Maybe disappear for a little.. then come back as a surpise one night and be on Austin's side while Austin is going up against McMan. Maybe McMan has a few guys going against Austin, and Austin needs a partner, and Bret makes a surprise return! Going off the heat, even without the screw job, that Vince turned the company into a cesspool, and helps Austin kick his ass!- Then Bret would have big legacy matches at Mania, vs. Angel, etc.
Between Austin invading Pillman's home, Bret shoving Vince after the cage match into a vulgarity laced promo, the Bret/Austin feud that eventually morphed into the USA v. Canada angle, and the not-so-secret but real animosity Bret had with Shawn, I'd say the "Attitude Era" started to really happen right around the summer/fall of 1997. Austin was fighting with WWF management over being stripped of his titles (w/McMahon appearing as the owner), the Hart Foundation were fighting with DX (neither group being face or heel, but jaded).
The spark that ignited everything was the "screwjob." It turned McMahon into a full-fledged heel (as well as Michaels) which gave the hottest star in the company (Austin) a perfect foil to build up toward WM.
Remember just a couple of years later shit stain left anyways so Bret would of gotten his way either or.. Then DX and bret would of had matches Undertaker and so on. Imagine Rock vs Hitman..... Gold.....
Bret's work in late 1996 and throughout 1997 in WWF proved he would have fit in perfectly. He was a master storyteller and highly underrated on the mic. He made you believe in everything he was doing, and without him, Stone Cold doesn't become the biggest star in the history of wrestling. Stone Cold was the Attitude Era. Bret would have fit in perfectly. In hindsight, it doesn't really matter to Vince, but he could have done a lot more with Bret than with Shawn, given the injury.
Bret💯💯💯💯
Yes hitman along with HBK started the era he would have been the anti attitude. The Montreal screw job would have been a great storyline with HBK that could have led to a wm14 rematch.
Bret started the attitude era with the JAM 💯💯
The downfall of Bret Hart was initially the start of The Attitude Era
I've thought a bit this for a while. If Vince had convinced him to stay, I believe he would have been in the position Triple H was in and would have been the Heel for Austin and The Rock to beat. Then later he would have put over Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle and working as the commissioner. Maybe having his last match at wrestlemania with Shawn Michaels when he had his comeback. I think if Triple H didn't get married to Steph, I think he might have jumped to WCW and joined the NWO. Then coming back with Nash, Hogan and Hall. He'd probably have not done much better than an upper midcard.