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I have it and love it .. simple and doesn't spoil the look of your bike ..also with the elastic band mounts easy to your bars and can be quickly slipped into your pocket
read my suggestion about a cheap and more solid way to mount it John. i found the rubber band mount moves when you twist to unlock, and wonder about the eventual long term fatigue in the rubber due to this or temperature changes. You dont want it coming apart and the thing falling off unexpectedly getting damaged or losing it. GL
This is by far the best, most comprehensive and honest review I’ve seen for the Beeline Moto. I really like its simplicity, but think there is room for improvement and some slight tweaking. I think there is also a mode on the app where you just set your final destination and you ride the route you want and the Beeline just points and counts down the distance until you arrive.
I’ve had mine about a year now, i got one as I dont use/want earphones or music when riding. For me it works great for the kind of day or few hour rides i do, dont do long trips. There are however a few things to know. Firstly, when planning your route if you just enter names of towns/villages it will take you to the center of each town, you need to go through your route and drag the pointer so you go around each waypoint , takes a minute to do. When taking bigger A roads or motorways it can be difficult to know which exit to take when there are 2 or 3 exits one after the other. For that reason its a good idea to have some idea of where your going as you may well need help from road signs. The technique is to just look at it once for your next turn, i.e. next roundabout 2nd exit, then you can ignore it until you have taken the exit for your next instruction. No need to keep looking down every 2 seconds at it. Anyway’ great gadget , works fine but be prepared for the odd wrong turn.
I have one for the bike and more than happy to use it on the motorbike. However it does have limitations. Having used lots of sat navs for cars and Hgv s I think it has one major drawback and that’s not having traffic. The reason for that is not the obvious holdups but road closures and happened to me this weekend. Road closure in Lancaster town centre, an area I m not familiar with, went off route so it recalculated route took me round two blocks and brought me back to the road closure. However generally it’s very good and has certainly got me out of a few messes. I don’t want a big phone or sat nav on my bike for shorter trips. Not sure I’d want to rely on it for long European tours or detailed city riding but then I d definitely take it as a backup with a TomTom/GARMIN.
Thank you. This is the only review I have seen so far that mentioned the importance of the device being pointed in the "RIGHT" direction...i.e. that the on/off button needs to be pointed straight ahead. I have to rethink my mounting options before I purchase because the only place I have to mount easily is the handle bars where they pull/slant back at an angle. I will most likely need to use the Ram Ball mounting system which will add to the overall cost. That being said I agree with your great assessment. Great little simple device that will benefit my riding/exploring more often than not.
I already have a dedicated TomTom on my motorcycle and it works brilliantly, providing lots of detail and features that I really want to be able to see on a single screen when riding. Audio warnings and instructions work well with my Interphone Tour headset. I have however purchased a Beeline Moto, instead of the cycle variant, to use on my pushbike. It fits my requirements brilliantly. The advantage for me over the dedicated cycle variant is the fact that I can use it on other motorcycles and motor vehicles if required, whereas the dedicated cycle variant does not have that capability. It is also so small, compact and easy to fit and remove, making it extremely convenient to carry.
It's a bit naff. You can only load a route if you are online....so not like any other satnav...big issue. And it will ony reroute if you're online....so get lost by going off-route and you're lost...and its back to the phone and navmii. Its best use, for me, is as a super-compass cross country on foot...you can mark a location and navigate there as the crow flies offline.....the arrow will always point to the location and give you the distance....so however wiggly your route you will always know the direction you need to go. The arrow has a mind of its own and does not always point anywhere near accurately where you're going...especially at junctions....it can take you down the wrong road. Because it's online only every route you take is logged by Beeline...a Chinese company...so if you're military or other maybe not for you. If you wear glasses or contacts its impossible to read unless you put it far enough away....and then you can't see the small indicators on it for turns etc. You need good eye-sight or varifocal glasses. A good idea badly executed. Much better to buy a cheap second phone and use that and Navmii which works, and calculates routes, offline.....a clear map with your location marked on it for say $100...or a dodgy, awkward to use, difficult to see and interpret device that doesn't work unless you're online and costs twice the price?
Hi great video mate! I may have missed this but has it got a learn mode on it? What I mean by that is can you switch it on and it will follow and record where you’ve been, and you can save it for a future ride!
Im riding a multistrada v4s with build in satnav, but then you still want it (I have it) because Ducati satnav sux. Great review. Very recognizable. The reconnect to the route when it is "lost" is the biggest negative for me. Thought it was my Android at first (Google Pixel) but good to hear you have the same issue. The best option in the moto is the compass mode where it shows you the direction where to go but it leaves it up to you how to get there. Drive safe buddy 👌🏼
Regarding the auto reroute not working sometimes it may be that you have mobile data switched off or in an area of poor/no reception as per this from Beeline's website: Before you set your route, you can decide whether or not you would like to keep ‘auto reroute’ on in the Beeline app settings menu. If you keep it on, and you go off route, your Beeline Moto will automatically reroute you within three seconds*. If you have a very specific route that you would like to follow, leave ‘auto reroute’ turned off and you will be guided, by the black arrow, back to your route if you go off it. You can still reroute manually by pressing the bottom button. *Please note that you need to have mobile data switched on for rerouting to work. If you have mobile data switched off, or you are in an area with no reception, your Beeline Moto will fail to auto reroute and the arrow will continue to point you back to your original route. You can press the bottom button to ask it to try rerouting when you have data again.
I use an old iPhone six,with sygic sat,don’t need internet access,seems to work ok.I like information when on the bike of upcoming routes.Seems a good idea,but not for me🥴
If you're using imported GPX, remember auto re-routing is not supported - which may explain why sometimes it worked and not other times. If it did it during app-planned routes, with dragged via points, then you probably didn't zoom in 100% on each point to ensure it was physically in a road.
I'd buy one except it doesn't have an anti-reflective coating. I wonder if it's possible to get some sort of a stick-on membrane to reduce the glare and reflection, so that the actual dial is easier to see?
i wondered that as well at first, but even in sunlight it's easy to read and adjusts itself when darker so i wouldnt worry about extra reflective coatings as i've never had an issue. GL
It looks good on retro bikes and I like the look of it. I don’t have cruise control on my bike so on a long journey you can go slightly over the speed limit. Doe this device give speed camera alerts ?
nope. it just tells you your current direction of travel, the next turn (with an indication of how sharp it will be) and the distance to it, as well as an approximation of the %complete your journey is.
I live in a mountainous region of northern thailand, I normally use a phone on the handle bars, theft is never a problem here and I like to see the bends and U turns etc ahead of time so happy using my phone, however, heat is a problem. My only concern would be the longevity of the battery in the unit, as and when the battery does give up on the Beeline can it be replaced ?
@@Tom-bm7mm yep that can be a problem. Been speaking with a friend in the uk that knows someone that has a beeline, he said they’re not as good as they make out??
Seems it struggles exactly in those situations when you need it most - on junctions and if you leave the route. The beeline velo 2 looks much better but its for bicycles only. For me, Tomtom Vio was the best moto nav until Tomtom bricked it by disabling the app. I hope they will fix the beeline moto ... spring is coming soon.
Can it be used in a city though with all its left right turns and traffic lights etc?…..Plus you’d have to be pretty sharp on the old obs having to ride and look at that tiny screen as well!!!
Best sat nav is phone with Google maps, but for me it is distracting, so I just use voice guide commands trough my sena communicator in the helmet connected to my phone.
An iPhone model after the x is able to connect to multiple Bluetooth devices. I don’t have a Beeline yet but it should be able to connect to your phone at the same time as the phone is connected to your headset, Apple Watch, bike TFT modes etc
It can. Wasn't straight forward however.... I have an iPhone 12 and a Sena coms set. The first time I tried using the beeline and Sena, I could only use one or the other. After some messing about with iPhone pairings, settings and software updates it did eventually work in tandem.
I use mine on a pushbike. The phone I use is an iPhone 7 which connects to the Beeline AND simultaneously to my Bluetooth headset for music (either AirShokz or HV800). I don’t use any audible directions from the Beeline Moto as they are unnecessary on a pushbike (plus to hear audible directions would mean paying for a subscription to Beeline), so I cannot really say whether any additional features of your Sena headset would be sacrificed if using the audible directions from your Beeline Moto but it would definitely connect to your phone and also your headset. If you don’t use the audible directions feature of the Beeline Moto, all of the Sena features else should work as usual.
Thanks for the information on that little Gadget montaigne it ain't worth the money ride safe I'll keep using my phone got to go to all that trouble just to get that thing to work some people might like it ride and be safe
Nobody goes into detail when using GPX tracks because there the use of the Beeline gets frustrating and limited. The 'recalculating mode' does not work with a preplanned GPX track. So if you encounter an obstacle on your road and you need to deviate from you route, the Beeline does not guide you back to your track. You have to take out your phone, put out your gloves and try to find an alternative road on the screen of your phone to get back on track. This might force you to stop a few times and look on you phone. Very annoying! When you go from A to B the recalculating works fine so I use it now this way only. Another point. If you wear or need reading glasses it is rather hard to see the small figures. During a ride you can press and hold the right or left button. This gives you the opportunity to like or dislike a road. And last, the user guide is very very basic/poor and Beeline support is crap even if it is to help them to improve their system.
If you lose data connection whilst driving and the beeline needs to reroute, it fails, turns off and becomes a £180 clock. don't purchase one until they fix it, or unless you live in an area where there is total coverage and you never lose data connection.
I rode through the Mt Blanc tunnel on my bike, so the signal was obviously lost, however it continued to work perfectly when I emerged from the tunnel. The only time it totally lost the signal was riding through Andorra, where there was no signal.
@@jonathanwilkinson267for what its worth: No mobiles work in Andorra - as its not part of the EU and apparently doesn't have telecom agreements. I found it in the tipping rain and literally ended up turning around in someone's garden on a dead end road! 🤦♂️
Bought this device 2 months ago. Found planning routes problematic; easy to accidentally add points by mistake and not realise it. Mapping for Thailand rubbish. Sent me down a heavily sanded track on a Triumph Speed Twin 900. Fell over twice! Waze far superior mapping. The actual device is hard to follow as a lag at junctions. Nothing like as good as Garmin, Tom Tom GPS etc. devices. Recommend you avoid as the cheap cost gives very poor guidance
Unless they've updated it it's a Rubbish device. Rather than show you the direction of your next turn, the big arrow (the only thing you can safely see while riding) indicates the direction you are travelling. Huh.....I already know that. I'm not even comfortable giving this to another rider. It's unsafe to use.
Watched your video on Beeline and you clearly didn’t read the instructions? When it doesn’t show an island on the screen you know it’s a junction ok The settings on the Beeline are for time miles etc the rest is on the Beeline app. And last every TH-cam video where the motorcyclist is using Beeline it rerouted very quickly. So please go and re-learn it 😊
It’s a waste of money- just use ur phone. It’s only good for vloggers to easily mount on multiple machines. I think the Ottocast motorcycle CarPlay is better.
Thanks for watching. Let me know what you think in the comments below. More videos like this here: th-cam.com/play/PLmgCmljtdCzUqvX8H5C5vG1b7QiagtD3Z.html
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I have it and love it .. simple and doesn't spoil the look of your bike ..also with the elastic band mounts easy to your bars and can be quickly slipped into your pocket
read my suggestion about a cheap and more solid way to mount it John. i found the rubber band mount moves when you twist to unlock, and wonder about the eventual long term fatigue in the rubber due to this or temperature changes. You dont want it coming apart and the thing falling off unexpectedly getting damaged or losing it. GL
This is by far the best, most comprehensive and honest review I’ve seen for the Beeline Moto. I really like its simplicity, but think there is room for improvement and some slight tweaking.
I think there is also a mode on the app where you just set your final destination and you ride the route you want and the Beeline just points and counts down the distance until you arrive.
Thanks for your views on the Beeline Alf. I have just bought one based on online reviews, but your review is much better.
I’ve had mine about a year now, i got one as I dont use/want earphones or music when riding. For me it works great for the kind of day or few hour rides i do, dont do long trips. There are however a few things to know. Firstly, when planning your route if you just enter names of towns/villages it will take you to the center of each town, you need to go through your route and drag the pointer so you go around each waypoint , takes a minute to do. When taking bigger A roads or motorways it can be difficult to know which exit to take when there are 2 or 3 exits one after the other. For that reason its a good idea to have some idea of where your going as you may well need help from road signs. The technique is to just look at it once for your next turn, i.e. next roundabout 2nd exit, then you can ignore it until you have taken the exit for your next instruction. No need to keep looking down every 2 seconds at it. Anyway’ great gadget , works fine but be prepared for the odd wrong turn.
I have one for the bike and more than happy to use it on the motorbike. However it does have limitations. Having used lots of sat navs for cars and Hgv s I think it has one major drawback and that’s not having traffic. The reason for that is not the obvious holdups but road closures and happened to me this weekend. Road closure in Lancaster town centre, an area I m not familiar with, went off route so it recalculated route took me round two blocks and brought me back to the road closure. However generally it’s very good and has certainly got me out of a few messes. I don’t want a big phone or sat nav on my bike for shorter trips. Not sure I’d want to rely on it for long European tours or detailed city riding but then I d definitely take it as a backup with a TomTom/GARMIN.
the beeline is incredible! I used it last week on a super long ride over 5 days. Zero issues and functioned perfectly brilliant!
cheers
Had one for a couple of years. Love it! Conventional satnav shows way too much information. Just need to know where/when to turn. Perfect device.
How does it display motorway lane & exit change?
Excellent video! Particularly pleased you cover the #1 reason why having your phone on the bars is a bad idea.
Thank you. This is the only review I have seen so far that mentioned the importance of the device being pointed in the "RIGHT" direction...i.e. that the on/off button needs to be pointed straight ahead.
I have to rethink my mounting options before I purchase because the only place I have to mount easily is the handle bars where they pull/slant back at an angle. I will most likely need to use the Ram Ball mounting system which will add to the overall cost.
That being said I agree with your great assessment. Great little simple device that will benefit my riding/exploring more often than not.
I already have a dedicated TomTom on my motorcycle and it works brilliantly, providing lots of detail and features that I really want to be able to see on a single screen when riding. Audio warnings and instructions work well with my Interphone Tour headset.
I have however purchased a Beeline Moto, instead of the cycle variant, to use on my pushbike. It fits my requirements brilliantly. The advantage for me over the dedicated cycle variant is the fact that I can use it on other motorcycles and motor vehicles if required, whereas the dedicated cycle variant does not have that capability. It is also so small, compact and easy to fit and remove, making it extremely convenient to carry.
Very good review, after watching I decided this is just what I need. Thank you. 👍
It's a bit naff.
You can only load a route if you are online....so not like any other satnav...big issue. And it will ony reroute if you're online....so get lost by going off-route and you're lost...and its back to the phone and navmii. Its best use, for me, is as a super-compass cross country on foot...you can mark a location and navigate there as the crow flies offline.....the arrow will always point to the location and give you the distance....so however wiggly your route you will always know the direction you need to go.
The arrow has a mind of its own and does not always point anywhere near accurately where you're going...especially at junctions....it can take you down the wrong road.
Because it's online only every route you take is logged by Beeline...a Chinese company...so if you're military or other maybe not for you.
If you wear glasses or contacts its impossible to read unless you put it far enough away....and then you can't see the small indicators on it for turns etc. You need good eye-sight or varifocal glasses.
A good idea badly executed.
Much better to buy a cheap second phone and use that and Navmii which works, and calculates routes, offline.....a clear map with your location marked on it for say $100...or a dodgy, awkward to use, difficult to see and interpret device that doesn't work unless you're online and costs twice the price?
Those issues you mention.. you just need to make sure your phone is not in power saving mode. Then works a treat.
Ordered it. Coming in 2 days.
Great review!
100 miles, a long ride? I used mine for 1,000 miles over three days without recharging it - Beeline is the best!
Great overview. I have just bought one for an 11 Day Trip. Cheers Dean
Hi great video mate! I may have missed this but has it got a learn mode on it? What I mean by that is can you switch it on and it will follow and record where you’ve been, and you can save it for a future ride!
Great review always wanted to know (in detail) how it works thank you.
Great review ! Thanks !
It looks good is ther any problems with the internet dropping out and can it be used with a Samsung galaxy a5 phone
Wanting to try this out for a long time now...
Im riding a multistrada v4s with build in satnav, but then you still want it (I have it) because Ducati satnav sux.
Great review. Very recognizable.
The reconnect to the route when it is "lost" is the biggest negative for me. Thought it was my Android at first (Google Pixel) but good to hear you have the same issue.
The best option in the moto is the compass mode where it shows you the direction where to go but it leaves it up to you how to get there.
Drive safe buddy 👌🏼
Regarding the auto reroute not working sometimes it may be that you have mobile data switched off or in an area of poor/no reception as per this from Beeline's website:
Before you set your route, you can decide whether or not you would like to keep ‘auto reroute’ on in the Beeline app settings menu. If you keep it on, and you go off route, your Beeline Moto will automatically reroute you within three seconds*.
If you have a very specific route that you would like to follow, leave ‘auto reroute’ turned off and you will be guided, by the black arrow, back to your route if you go off it. You can still reroute manually by pressing the bottom button.
*Please note that you need to have mobile data switched on for rerouting to work. If you have mobile data switched off, or you are in an area with no reception, your Beeline Moto will fail to auto reroute and the arrow will continue to point you back to your original route. You can press the bottom button to ask it to try rerouting when you have data again.
I use an old iPhone six,with sygic sat,don’t need internet access,seems to work ok.I like information when on the bike of upcoming routes.Seems a good idea,but not for me🥴
The only problem I found using the iPhone 6 was the screen wasn't bright enough.
If you're using imported GPX, remember auto re-routing is not supported - which may explain why sometimes it worked and not other times. If it did it during app-planned routes, with dragged via points, then you probably didn't zoom in 100% on each point to ensure it was physically in a road.
I'd buy one except it doesn't have an anti-reflective coating. I wonder if it's possible to get some sort of a stick-on membrane to reduce the glare and reflection, so that the actual dial is easier to see?
i wondered that as well at first, but even in sunlight it's easy to read and adjusts itself when darker so i wouldnt worry about extra reflective coatings as i've never had an issue. GL
Nice Harley and informative review!👍😉
It’s not a “navigation _system_ ” as it relies on your phone’s GPS… it’s just an auxiliary screen, hence why it has to be mounted a certain way ‘up’
It does not have to be mounted a certain way up. Doesnt matter how i mount mine, it will always "allign" itself to "up" or "top"
I think using your iPhone mounted on handle bars connected to Bluetooth helmet system all you need and bigger screen
I need glasses to read. Will I be able to see the instructions on the small display?
Not sure
Great review.
Worth to think about.
Anyway, what phone holder on your handlebar?
Tops review - thanks Alf
Can u send me a link to the fitment u have on ure bike please as I'm looking at buying this item.... thanks...
please note that you can save routes and it works with the phone 'off'
I use my Wahoo cycle computer. Small and simple.
It looks good on retro bikes and I like the look of it. I don’t have cruise control on my bike so on a long journey you can go slightly over the speed limit. Doe this device give speed camera alerts ?
nope. it just tells you your current direction of travel, the next turn (with an indication of how sharp it will be) and the distance to it, as well as an approximation of the %complete your journey is.
@@Bob-ts2tu it also has a clock and a GPS speedometer but no speed alerts
How do I get back to my GPX track if I decide at a certain point to leave the track and go for a coffee in a town?
Route direct I suppose
This doesn't work. There the system is very limited and frustrating.
I live in a mountainous region of northern thailand, I normally use a phone on the handle bars, theft is never a problem here and I like to see the bends and U turns etc ahead of time so happy using my phone, however, heat is a problem. My only concern would be the longevity of the battery in the unit, as and when the battery does give up on the Beeline can it be replaced ?
I'm in northern Thailand as well. I've found it a bit difficult read in direct, bright sunlight.
@@Tom-bm7mm yep that can be a problem. Been speaking with a friend in the uk that knows someone that has a beeline, he said they’re not as good as they make out??
Seems it struggles exactly in those situations when you need it most - on junctions and if you leave the route. The beeline velo 2 looks much better but its for bicycles only. For me, Tomtom Vio was the best moto nav until Tomtom bricked it by disabling the app. I hope they will fix the beeline moto ... spring is coming soon.
Only problem is if you dont have Internet connection to you phone it wont work.
Can it be used in a city though with all its left right turns and traffic lights etc?…..Plus you’d have to be pretty sharp on the old obs having to ride and look at that tiny screen as well!!!
Yes good point, but should be fine
Best sat nav is phone with Google maps, but for me it is distracting, so I just use voice guide commands trough my sena communicator in the helmet connected to my phone.
But that only takes you from A to B, and if you want to do that Waze does a far better job.
@@RichDunn either Waze or google maps with voice commands trough helmet 😉
Can you eat out of your trough helmet?
If this has to be paired to a phone at all times to work I take it that the phone cannot be paired to a Sena headset at the same time?
good question
An iPhone model after the x is able to connect to multiple Bluetooth devices. I don’t have a Beeline yet but it should be able to connect to your phone at the same time as the phone is connected to your headset, Apple Watch, bike TFT modes etc
It can. Wasn't straight forward however.... I have an iPhone 12 and a Sena coms set. The first time I tried using the beeline and Sena, I could only use one or the other. After some messing about with iPhone pairings, settings and software updates it did eventually work in tandem.
I use mine on a pushbike. The phone I use is an iPhone 7 which connects to the Beeline AND simultaneously to my Bluetooth headset for music (either AirShokz or HV800).
I don’t use any audible directions from the Beeline Moto as they are unnecessary on a pushbike (plus to hear audible directions would mean paying for a subscription to Beeline), so I cannot really say whether any additional features of your Sena headset would be sacrificed if using the audible directions from your Beeline Moto but it would definitely connect to your phone and also your headset. If you don’t use the audible directions feature of the Beeline Moto, all of the Sena features else should work as usual.
Thanks for the information on that little Gadget montaigne it ain't worth the money ride safe I'll keep using my phone got to go to all that trouble just to get that thing to work some people might like it ride and be safe
Yep horses for courses
Nobody goes into detail when using GPX tracks because there the use of the Beeline gets frustrating and limited. The 'recalculating mode' does not work with a preplanned GPX track. So if you encounter an obstacle on your road and you need to deviate from you route, the Beeline does not guide you back to your track. You have to take out your phone, put out your gloves and try to find an alternative road on the screen of your phone to get back on track. This might force you to stop a few times and look on you phone. Very annoying! When you go from A to B the recalculating works fine so I use it now this way only.
Another point. If you wear or need reading glasses it is rather hard to see the small figures.
During a ride you can press and hold the right or left button. This gives you the opportunity to like or dislike a road.
And last, the user guide is very very basic/poor and Beeline support is crap even if it is to help them to improve their system.
I just couldn't get along with mine, I sent it back.
If you lose data connection whilst driving and the beeline needs to reroute, it fails, turns off and becomes a £180 clock. don't purchase one until they fix it, or unless you live in an area where there is total coverage and you never lose data connection.
I rode through the Mt Blanc tunnel on my bike, so the signal was obviously lost, however it continued to work perfectly when I emerged from the tunnel. The only time it totally lost the signal was riding through Andorra, where there was no signal.
@@jonathanwilkinson267for what its worth: No mobiles work in Andorra - as its not part of the EU and apparently doesn't have telecom agreements. I found it in the tipping rain and literally ended up turning around in someone's garden on a dead end road! 🤦♂️
@@CosmicSeeker69 😁Me too, turned into someone's private driveway! Great ride back home to France though.
It looks like you still using google maps as phone holder is on your handle bars, right?
I'm not sold, I'll stick to my phone.
Sounds like your phone has to be connected to the internet at all times!!!
Bought this device 2 months ago. Found planning routes problematic; easy to accidentally add points by mistake and not realise it. Mapping for Thailand rubbish. Sent me down a heavily sanded track on a Triumph Speed Twin 900. Fell over twice! Waze far superior mapping. The actual device is hard to follow as a lag at junctions. Nothing like as good as Garmin, Tom Tom GPS etc. devices. Recommend you avoid as the cheap cost gives very poor guidance
Should cost nothing more than £50
Unless they've updated it it's a Rubbish device. Rather than show you the direction of your next turn, the big arrow (the only thing you can safely see while riding) indicates the direction you are travelling. Huh.....I already know that. I'm not even comfortable giving this to another rider. It's unsafe to use.
Watched your video on Beeline and you clearly didn’t read the instructions? When it doesn’t show an island on the screen you know it’s a junction ok The settings on the Beeline are for time miles etc the rest is on the Beeline app. And last every TH-cam video where the motorcyclist is using Beeline it rerouted very quickly. So please go and re-learn it 😊
In defence - he is a man...... Ikea instructions syndrome 😜
It’s a waste of money- just use ur phone. It’s only good for vloggers to easily mount on multiple machines. I think the Ottocast motorcycle CarPlay is better.
No. No it isn’t.
Rubbish then 🙈