I really hope that when this stuff gets updated and modernized, those original relay racks and interlock stand get put in a museum. Those are gorgeous pieces of machinery that interests me far more than a couple of back boxes with LEDS and fans would.
engineering is going from mechanical to digital. in 100 years time (or probably a lot less) we will be looking at "beautify pieces of code" which make up these digital systems.
@@redcloud4741no we won’t. Code gets rewritten all the time and simply isn’t as interesting as an intricate mechanical interface. Watches are the perfect example: no matter how much doodads are added to an Apple Watch, people will still covet the mechanical complexity and time tested durability of a mechanical Rolex. Doesn’t mean this isn’t needed. Frequency is more important than physical subway expansion. But….software is always less appreciated.
I've been riding the New York City subway system for almost 60 years, I never had any clue of what was going on behind the scenes. This is amazing! What's even more amazing is that you have parts from the 1940s that are still working perfectly.
@@the0000alex0000 Yeah, it is surprising that we don't have a lot crashes inside the tunnels. Besides, and good example, of older technology working better than newer is the R32s replacing R179 on the J line because the R179 had problems.
@@blaazer9473 Newer signalling would surely be more efficient though. The old stuff does work but isn’t the most efficient. Maybe it’s simpler though so is prone to less faults.
New signals are less efficient because of overzealous safety "features." Unnecessarily slowing trains to a crawl approaching switches, for example. @@PeteS_1994
@@allangibson8494 In all three versions, they had the train stopped. From there, they cut a car and turned off the power. Once it was time to move, they turned on the power. The movies never had a train move with the power off.
@@TheRailLeaguer Saw that orig. version a number of times. St Louis Car Co-built R22s used in the filming..fresh MTA paint, no graffiti!! The Transit Authority did very little to co-operate with technical advising during the filming. Credits at end showed that. Dug it any way. Have not seen re-makes...Am a NYC Subway aficionado, specially the prewar/post war rolling stock!!
I’ve been a train lover all my life. And I just got a job with the Metro North Railroad as a coach cleaner!! I absolutely love this stuff and I follow progression of the modernization efforts very closely. The L and the 7 trains are fully equipped with CBTC. Queens Boulevard (E, F, M, R) I believe is finished as well. The lines that are currently being worked on are the Culver Line (F) in Brooklyn as well as eighth avenue (A, C, E) in Manhattan.
@@hatsunehatsunemikumikumikuNo but hopefully it’s on the docket for the near future. The MTA would need to purchase new trains for a modernization project of the Lexington Avenue line. The new equipment currently being delivered are the R211A’s and the R211T’s. Those cars are for the lettered lines (BMT, IND). The R262 is the next potential car model for the numbered lines (IRT).
@@FowlorTheRooster1990 I guess you didn't really watch the video. He clearly says there is a separate "relay room" from the control room that houses all the electromechanical switching equipment. That big switchboard is nothing more than a panel with lights and a whole bunch of signal switches. No significant electric current flows through that machine.
AlgonquinRider810 also a lot of whining without having a clue what it takes to move 6 MILLION people per day! Anyone with any small slight insight into what NYCT does day in and day is in awe of what they accomplish safely.
Everyone is like ‘they need to upgrade it,’ but no one realizes that they have to close lines or sections of lines to change it, which will cause many delays and headaches to do it
I was a signalman and looking at those old relays is awesome. I worked on those years ago out in the desert for southern pacific. The weigh a ton and are reliable for a hundred years. The old wabcos, Union switch and signal GE and safetran stuff is just amazing
Absolutely fascinating! I've always been amazed at how well the system works as old as it is. Congratulations to the many, many tower operators that keep it functioning! Great video!
Bruce Cohen Maybe you weren't born yet but in the 70's and 80's much worse. For $2.75 people expect you to carry them from their front door, serve them breakfast, have 1st class accommodations, and carry them to their destinations, and they would still complain.
@@jerrypeukert5732 My gosh! I've been outta of New Yawk a long time. When did the fare go to $2.75? Jeez! I think it was 50 cents? When I was there last. Been over 20 years now. It was only for a minute, my father passed away. But I had left maybe 3 years before. I miss him, and I miss NY. I was born and raised in N.Y. Never would've thought I wouldn't get back. But life sometimes has other plans. It's amazing how time just moves on. Sometimes it seems like it was only yesterday. 🙂
@@geoben1810 When I was back there in 1982 visiting Brklyn relatives, the fare was .75. When we moved fr. N.Y. in 1967, it had jumped fr. .15 to .20..!! Yes, time moves along!! Now they've got all these newer cars, most of them aren't worth a shit!! Give me the old, scary, noisy, wicker seat/light bulbed/ exposed fan prewar R1/R9 units, any day!! They were dependable workhorses!
People over here complaining about 2 dollars and change when they can buy all other types of expensive shit. And they complain about the subways and buses. Like Stfu, yall don't know how good yall actually have it until you see a shittier one or we don't have the MTA Anymore.
I work as a machinist in the subway of Moscow. We have a system of ALS-ARS (automatic locomotive speed control system) allows you to keep the minimum interval between trains is one minute thirty seconds at the maximum train speed of 80 km per hour.
That's nice and all and I will say as a mechanical engineer myself I am a firm believer of "if it ain't broken, don't fix it." But at $2.75 a ride and growing every two years I find it hard to believe funding for upgrading can't be found. So call up Mr. Cuomo and tell him to stop hoarding that cash his fat pockets don't need and get us a modern communications system.
ToxicTiki you don't understand that transit systems are an economic engine for a region. If the business activity paid for the benefit it receives from it's transit system, the transit system would be awash in profit. Transit is a benefit to private businesses subsidized by public money. Yet another example of the Capitalist trick of publicizing cost while privatizing profit.
Sangheili 112 True. That's the nature of the beast. Nobody wants you to shut stuff down to upgrade, or pay more for the improvements, but when it breaks they complain. It's just the way things are.
+ToxicTiki Except in they UK, where they can charge you insane amounts for a shitty service. Because everything from trains to buses is private, and deregulated, and thus only here to make a profit, not to serve as public transportation. An example: stagecoach, which operates the bigger part of bus routes thoughout the country, prides itself on a 100+ million profit. But definitely not on being affordable nor efficient.
Love the technical stuff. I worked for BART in the 80's and 90's. The more automated train control (and the less manual control) the better for safety. Thank you.
Interesting to hear about the "old-fashioned way" which includes the interlocking equipment. When I "broke-in" on on the Southern Pacific in 1971, there were some signal towers that had equipment dating back to the WWI era. The power supply for moving the switches was via direct current motors. The signals, I was told, were originally semaphore types. The semaphores had given way to "target signals" prior to my 1971 arrival.
I'm a freight conductor and work out of Houston. The interlocking board almost reminds me of a system we had in which you had to turn knobs to line switches. Neat video, be safe.
Hats off all the workers that keep this ancient system running and shame to all the politicians stealing the resources and not giving the workers modern and updated equipment to run
As an Electronics technician I find this all absolutely amazing, and hats off to all of these people doing a wonderful job upgrading these systems, especially maintaining service while doing so, however I do find it hard to believe that it's difficult for them to track the locations of the trains without some type of GPS system of some type at least until the newer updates have taken place.
They do plan for the installation of an Ultra-Wideband system for the MTA signal upgrades. This presumably takes the place of the transponders installed on the bottom of the train for tracking the trains at the MTA Rail Control center in Manhattan. Much of the equipment can be installed in the tunnel walls, while the antennas for it can easily be installed on each end of the train consist.
The new CBTC tech uses those transponders that locate the train with accuracy down to 6inches then the trains count distance travelled from that point with a combination of radar and tachometer + wheel diameter calculations until they hit the next transponder.
lol at 4:44 you can here how concerned he is reading the script telling people that the train there on is just somewhere in this area and that they don't actually know where they are
The closest I've seen subway trains operate is in Madrid, Spain. Watch the trains go by in a busy station. You can heard another train arriving before the current train in the station has completely left.
flyingchimp99 This city is always a target for evildoers, so it makes sense for them to continue using this control system, as antiquated as it may be.
flyingchimp99 driverless trains cost way more (mostly for intrusion prevention and detection) and the delays when they occur take longer to recover from.
+Sunny Raines I prefer having a person up front driving the train I am riding. Yeah, it means you have to pay a person a salary to sit up front and drive the train. But It means a paycheck at the end of the week and I feel safer knowing there is a trained individual in control of the train I am riding. The idea of having a machine doing the driving doesn't set well with me.
I've seen a (L) train operator using CBTC nd I noticed the train driving itself, stopping at every station by itself I thought it was cool. I also seen the driver get out of his seat while the train was breaking into one of the Manhattan stations. I noticed this everytime I've missed a (L) train, that there's always another (L) train behind driving really close to the one that left the station that I missed at the morning rush hour
Im a train Fanatic i know right, i recently saw like yesterday around 9pm on Livonia Ave a train operator on the manhattan bound platform was on his phone while the train was breakin into the station💯💯
Blake McNamara It is better. CBTC has been in operation on the Canarsie Line for nearly 6 years, and so far, not a single crash. Compare that to what happened in 1995, when a J train crashed into an M train on the Williamsburg Bridge since the signal system did not work.
As a driver on the MTA subway system, I like CBTC because I can drive the train when I am drunk and there is much less possibility of causing an accident.
Coming into work intoxicated is the LAST thing you need to do. It doesn’t matter that if the train is automated. You’re still operating the train. You have to stay focused and alcohol impairs your judgement.
This was a very well put together video. Very informative even if the current political and funding situation doesn't leave a lot of light at the end of this tunnel. But thanks for this informative piece. Would love more like this about the transit system.
It's great that train technology has lasted this long, but while NYC is dealing with 100 year old systems, other nations have already upgraded to high-speed rail. What's holding NYC back? Perhaps the US can build fewer military jets.
Lerkero Yes, because what the department of defense decides to spend its money on really does mean that a city level transit system will get less money. The 100 year old system is great, I've worked with analogous systems on railways in New Zealand and the take home message from them is this: If you maintain it, and use it right it will do exactly what it was designed to do: stop trains from colliding.
Samuel Zelter The US government allocates funding and grants for projects at different levels of government - including the department of defense and states that provide money to counties and cities. My criticism isn't that the system doesn't work. If something works that doesn't mean it can't be improved to be more efficient. Perhaps a newer system will require less maintenance and provide a better design to prevent trains from colliding.
Lerkero high speed rail is for INTER-city service up to 400 miles. NYCT and other transit systems provides INTRA-city service. There is rarely a need for speeds over 60 mph and in most instances 35 mph works great. AGreed the US should be implementing high speed rail where it makes sense like the Boston to Richmond Northeast Corridor.
+Lerkero Because nobody votes for politicians that are WEAK ON DEFENCE AND WANT THE RUSSIANS AND CHINESE TO WIN. This gets no funding because it is invisible to regular people.
+Sunny Raines The main issues here are reliability and running costs - as time goes on and these components become harder to replace, they become both less reliable and more expensive to maintain. It's a bit like having a unique 1930's vehicle - it will get you from a to b just fine, but when it breaks down, which happens frequently, you're going to be paying 10 times as much for parts.
A very interesting video about operations. Well done, but updates would be a plus. • Love coming to NYC, and being a rider. • Cheers from The Detroit & Mackinac Railway 🚂
Very cool. The old control equipment that is maintained internally, reminds me of the older components in the FAA's air traffic control system. And if the subway is like the FAA, they could use more funds for upgrading the infrastructure.
We're long past the point where all this old signaling equipment should have been torn out but the fact that it still does it's originally intended job is a testament to the skills of engineers and mechanics long gone.
Just because something is old doesn't mean it has to be eliminated. The main concern(s) are how well it works. If its working poorly can it be fixed or what can reliably replace it and will the replacement be as reliable or even more reliable. From a passenger standpoint it doesn't matter if the system is so old that it dates back to the Medieval days or so new that it was just invented. All that matter is that it's reliable, safe, and gets the jobb done in a satisfactory manner.
Londan underground is WAY older and yet their trains are cleaner and were semi auto(although no CBTC) since 1960s. Londan underground stations are also better looking some stations with screen doors
+odisy64 depends on how you do it. those rare relay and switches can be converted into modern logic gates and stuff. advance system is not less vulnerable, it's just not done right. if the company can make his own FPGA application and locking it up inside security perimeter, it'll be the same "vulnerability" people are referring the new system in such way that it can be accessible from anywhere to everywhere and using common protocol on top of that.
C'mon MTA and Cuomo... Let's get this done faster. I'm still late to work because of signals on the 4,5,6 not working. I still have to wait 10 minutes in the morning and sometimes 12 minutes in the late afternoon. This is NYC - speed and efficiency are most important.
The issue is not having antiquated stuff; for example, Paris and Montreal metros do have trains that are over 50 years old (MP59 and MR63 most notably). Yet they work. The point is to have something that can work fine on a day to day basis. And of course being able to properly maintain it, this is where it can get tricky.
Frankly it's impressive how such an old system has been kept working with limited upgrades for so long. Some parts of the UK are also still using semaphores from the early 1900's as well, so it's not unusual.
The L and the 7 lines now have CBTC. Queens Boulevard (E, F, M, R) is almost done. The Culver line in Brooklyn (F) is being heavily worked on, and the 8th Avenue line (A, C, E) has very recently started. It’s coming on a lot of lines and it’s exciting.
That’s old West 4th tower. It was taken out of service about 2 years ago. 34th Street Master took it’s place & it now runs both 6th & 8th Avenue. I remember signing on at West 4th my first year on the job.
Did they keep the tower as a museum? That 1930s technology really was built to last. It will be interesting to see how long it is before the CBTC system needs upgrading. I hope all the very skilled people working at the 4th St tower were redeployed in other interesting and skilled positions and didn't just lose their jobs.
@@bluewren65, nope. It’s been gone for almost 3 years. Any Tower Operator or Dispatcher that picked that job were redeployed to 34th Street Master. It was demoed a long time ago. That old machine is gone, too.
For all saying, "If it aint broke, dont fix it" it causes delays so long it marks the slowest major transportation system in the world. Its so old, theres a MAJOR risk one thing can go wrong and cause a MAJOR disaster. Its not just broke, its outdated and dangerous. The Fix Block Signaling also cause MASSIVE delays and causes speed control risks for collision
In singapore SMRT or Singapore Mass Rapid Transit PTE LTD, we are currently upgrading our old lines. This includes Sleeper replacement Timber To concrete, 3rd Rail upgrade and CBTC By Thales SelTrac.
And also we are upgrading Train motors from current VVVF to PMSM Motors(Permanent Magnetic Synchronous Motor) This helps train energy to an efficiant rate to 30% and CBTC Will help train frequency from 2Mins waiting time to future 100Sec waiting time. Better Frequency More trains on the line. +mtainfo
syed daniel So which train models have them? I'm assuming Downtown Line and Circle Line trains? Or maybe those new trains for the older North-South/East-West Trains that rolled out?
Fatal_Taco The C151s have the PMSM motors (for now). The C951 (for DTL), the C830/C830A/C830C (for the CCL), the C651, C151B, C151C (2019)(for the NSEWL), the C751A/C751C (for the NEL) and maybe the CT251 (for the TECL in 2019) have the Thales CBTC. All lines will be resignalled anyways
Doesn't it look the same with ATP(Automatic Train Protection)? CBTC looks a lot like it. Here in Athens, Greece, in the subway system, that is what they use. For example, a train can get clearance when stoped at a station, but if the ahead train is close enough, instead of 70-80 Km/h, it will get a 40 maybe limit. This helps a lot to maintain a steady and of course a safe, time and distance.
kev p I agree. This is the one thing needed to make our subway system more reliable. With installation on Queens Blvd, Lower 8th Avenue, Lexington IRT, and others, I hope to reap the benefits of additional train service.
Came here to cleanse my palette after being horrified by the quality of the New York Times documentary about late trains. Their referencing of this MTA video was the single redeeming moment in their video. Great work, MTA!
The equipment may be old, but at least it's 100% hacker proof. Just make sure that when you update the system, you don't connect it to the internet. Everything that gets connected to the internet becomes a security risk.
Well if someone really wanted to go digging for wires in the tunnels then you can't really consider the current system hacker-proof. But yes, connection to the internet will pose a big risk, although I don't see why there would be any reason to do so. It would be on their own intranet if anything.
This is a no_brainer. Hopefully whatever funds are being remitted for Capital Improvement will go to replacing those relays in that West 4th Street Station Tower with server racks like one would find in a datacenter.
Hi, my name is Trevor, I was born and raised in New York City, from The Bronx. I was never an employee with the transit authority, but I almost know how the light signals works on the subway trains. I always been fascinated with the signaling of the lights of the signals where a train will go by one of the blocks where it turns it to red as it's going through that particular signal or block. I even know how it works where you can see a split of the track where once the wheels goes over that particular split that's where the signal lights gets tripped to a different signal otherwise known as red signal, I also notice when the train is clear it will have a yellow Bracket I really don't know the name of it, or what you call it, but it pops up every time the train clears's that particular block or signal, so I'm guessing it's the emergency breaker, it will stop the train if a train is going too fast tripping that signal. I noticed something new, and I would like to know more about this new system of the traffic light system of the green flashing light on the signals is this part of the new CBTC system? I have also have seen this flashing green lights signal in Atlanta, Georgia. Is this where did you get the idea of the green flashing lights from? I moved to Atlanta in 89 and I lived there for 30 years and I've also been fascinated with the trains in Atlanta as well as the transit system called Marta.
So, this is similar to how aircraft and ships now use respectively different but similar technologies... for location tracking via satellite or ground-based communications. The way the FAA may be ultimately going with ATC in the USA anyway, is pilot-to-pilot. So like if that translates to the NYC subway I'm not sure but it'd basically be like that.
I was linked this video on an article about organizations that still use outdated computers....this has to be one of the oldest "computers" still used!!😗
Hey, can someone explain to me why its already Q2 of 2017 (as of putting this up), and Flushing Line hasn't started CBTC? Its killing me the space on rush hour, and its like they shut down like rarely. If the MTA is gonna do CBTC on Flushing Line, at least get it done with, instead of spreading it out. I think some CBTC things are breaking on Flushing Line even though they aren't being used.
Queens Blvd line is up next after the 7. I think it says somewhere (can't recall, sorry) that the MTA currently runs 29 TPH (trains per hour) on the Queens Blvd express tracks. With CBTC+ATO, they hope to run 32 TPH on the Express tracks. An additional 3 TPH doesn't sound like much, but keep in mind that (according to Wikipedia) the R160B cars have a *theoretical* maximum capacity of 258 per car (52 seated, 206 standing). Practically, that won't be achieved, so we'll assume that an R160B's *practical* maximum capacity is 92% of the theoretical capacity, or in this case, roughly 237 people. Apply that to a 10-car train, and that's an extra 2,370 people per train. For the 3 TPH extra, that's an additional 7,110 people per hour on the Express tracks. That's a fairly impressive capacity increase for a line running at very, very close to 100% capacity. I personally think that in order to take less time overall, that the Express tracks should be taken completely out-of-service. To mitigate the inconvenience, I propose the following: >Truncate the M at Delancey/Essex Sts in Manhattan. Temporarily stop running the W, and reroute the R to Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to replace the W (temporarily). Finally, reroute the E to run alongside the F between W 4th St/Washington Sq and 21st St/Queensbridge (via the 6th Ave Local and the 63rd Street Connection). Then run the E/F via the Queens Blvd *Local* to Briarwood/Van Wyck, after which the E and F will split and run as normal to Jamaica Ctr-Parsons/Archer and Jamaica-179th St, respectively. >Integrate fares on the LIRR and Subway in Queens, by making rides from QBL stations and the Woodside, Flushing-Main Street, Forest Hills, Kew Gardens, Jamaica, Hollis, and Queens Village stations, onto Subway lines in Manhattan, only the cost of a single Subway ride. Unlimited Ride 7-day passes will also work for this. For example, someone traveling from Rego Park-63rd Dr to 59th St/Columbus Circle could take the E/F to 74th/Jackson Heights, the 7 to Woodside, the LIRR to Penn Station, and the A to 59th/Columbus; they could do all of this on just one fare of $2.75. Another example: Someone who normally travels only by Subway between Jamaica-179th Street and 23th Street on the F/M (6th Ave line), could instead take the F to Kew Gardens, walk from the Subway to the LIRR, take the LIRR to Penn Station, then take the 1 train to 23rd Street on 7th Ave, and would only be 1 block west of their usual arrival station. >Operate a non-stop bus route every 5 minutes between Briarwood/Van Wyck (E/F) and Middle Village/Metropolitan Ave (M) to carry riders who work closer to Lower Manhattan than Midtown, who would normally take the QBL to Court Sq for the G, or who might stay on the E or F to get to their workplace south of 14th Street. After the Express tracks are finished, the Local tracks would have CBTC installed. For this, I recommend reconstructing the 74th St/Jackson Heights station on the 7 train to serve both Local *and* Express trains. I also recommend running a replacement bus service between Queens Plaza and Forest Hills-71st Ave. This would only stop at the Subway stations themselves, not stopping in between. To make up for the non-sheltered walks to the stations, temporarily remove parking on the outer lanes of Queens Blvd, and run the buses in those parking areas as a de-facto bus lane. Also run the buses no less frequent than every 4 minutes (traffic permitting). Because the Local tracks are out of service, keep the pattern for the M, R, and W trains in place until the Local tracks have CBTC installed. Because the QBL Express CBTC upgrade includes the 53rd St line, route the E back through Queens Plaza, Court Sq, and under 53rd St. Create a free Metrocard-only transfer from Queens Plaza to Queens*boro* Plaza to provide other options for getting into Manhattan. Keep the F running in its normal pattern. Get rid of the non-stop bus route from Briarwood/Van Wyck to Middle Village/Metropolitan Ave, as the QBL Express tracks are back in service at this point. However, keep the LIRR transfer incentives and expand the services covered by a single $2.75 fare to the QBL Local bus replacement service.
HostilePancakes, The One and Only I don’t think we need to make 74th Street-Broadway an express station. It would make the already-crowded expresses even more crowded and the locals would be virtually empty. Having the expressed not stop there would balance out the loads.
I really hope that when this stuff gets updated and modernized, those original relay racks and interlock stand get put in a museum. Those are gorgeous pieces of machinery that interests me far more than a couple of back boxes with LEDS and fans would.
They still using them today lol
engineering is going from mechanical to digital. in 100 years time (or probably a lot less) we will be looking at "beautify pieces of code" which make up these digital systems.
@@redcloud4741no we won’t. Code gets rewritten all the time and simply isn’t as interesting as an intricate mechanical interface.
Watches are the perfect example: no matter how much doodads are added to an Apple Watch, people will still covet the mechanical complexity and time tested durability of a mechanical Rolex.
Doesn’t mean this isn’t needed. Frequency is more important than physical subway expansion. But….software is always less appreciated.
I've been riding the New York City subway system for almost 60 years, I never had any clue of what was going on behind the scenes. This is amazing! What's even more amazing is that you have parts from the 1940s that are still working perfectly.
working perfectly?
@@the0000alex0000 Yeah, it is surprising that we don't have a lot crashes inside the tunnels. Besides, and good example, of older technology working better than newer is the R32s replacing R179 on the J line because the R179 had problems.
@@blaazer9473 Newer signalling would surely be more efficient though. The old stuff does work but isn’t the most efficient. Maybe it’s simpler though so is prone to less faults.
Amazing? You americans still living in stone age
New signals are less efficient because of overzealous safety "features." Unnecessarily slowing trains to a crawl approaching switches, for example. @@PeteS_1994
I thought the control setup in “The Taking of Pelham 123” in the 1970s was filmed in a museum. And they’re still using it!!!
And was bull when originally written. If there is no power the train will not move.
@@allangibson8494 In all three versions, they had the train stopped. From there, they cut a car and turned off the power. Once it was time to move, they turned on the power.
The movies never had a train move with the power off.
@@TheRailLeaguer Saw that orig. version a number of times. St Louis Car Co-built R22s used in the filming..fresh MTA paint, no graffiti!! The Transit Authority did very little to co-operate with technical advising during the filming. Credits at end showed that. Dug it any way. Have not seen re-makes...Am a NYC Subway aficionado, specially the prewar/post war rolling stock!!
@@TheRailLeaguer Three versions?
@@trainer1158 Yeah. There were three versions: the 1974 original, the 1998 remake one made for TV and the 2009 film remake.
Incredible! I hope this system ends up properly preserved and explained in a museum some day. Thanks for the detailed footage!
The planning, the co-ordination this takes. Remarkable!
yos
I’ve been a train lover all my life. And I just got a job with the Metro North Railroad as a coach cleaner!! I absolutely love this stuff and I follow progression of the modernization efforts very closely. The L and the 7 trains are fully equipped with CBTC. Queens Boulevard (E, F, M, R) I believe is finished as well. The lines that are currently being worked on are the Culver Line (F) in Brooklyn as well as eighth avenue (A, C, E) in Manhattan.
do you know when the 4,5, and 6 lines will be updated?
@@hatsunehatsunemikumikumikuNo but hopefully it’s on the docket for the near future. The MTA would need to purchase new trains for a modernization project of the Lexington Avenue line. The new equipment currently being delivered are the R211A’s and the R211T’s. Those cars are for the lettered lines (BMT, IND). The R262 is the next potential car model for the numbered lines (IRT).
@mikeysullivan it's part of there 5 year plan so in like 2030 or so
That tower looks like an electrical fire waiting to happen.
We already had one in 2005 at the Chambers Street A C station, and boy did it do one hell of a job knocking out service.
@@FowlorTheRooster1990 I guess you didn't really watch the video. He clearly says there is a separate "relay room" from the control room that houses all the electromechanical switching equipment. That big switchboard is nothing more than a panel with lights and a whole bunch of signal switches. No significant electric current flows through that machine.
@@TheRailLeaguer ..Man, I'll just bet! !
Oh my god your right! I just realized lol
That’s not very optimistic
Pretty clear half the people in the comments don't understand how CBTC works and its purpose.
AlgonquinRider810 also a lot of whining without having a clue what it takes to move 6 MILLION people per day! Anyone with any small slight insight into what NYCT does day in and day is in awe of what they accomplish safely.
Being in awe and expecting better are not mutually exclusive.
Sunny Raines how does it work?
Everyone is like ‘they need to upgrade it,’ but no one realizes that they have to close lines or sections of lines to change it, which will cause many delays and headaches to do it
AlgonquinRioder810
Great video! Well produced and narrated. Proud of our subway managers and workers.
I was a signalman and looking at those old relays is awesome. I worked on those years ago out in the desert for southern pacific. The weigh a ton and are reliable for a hundred years. The old wabcos, Union switch and signal GE and safetran stuff is just amazing
Absolutely fascinating! I've always been amazed at how well the system works as old as it is. Congratulations to the many, many tower operators that keep it functioning! Great video!
100% agree A native New Yorker…. So I talk junk about transit travel….. but this is cool beyond words
at least this partially explains WHY the service is slow and UN predictable.
Bruce Cohen Maybe you weren't born yet but in the 70's and 80's much worse. For $2.75 people expect you to carry them from their front door, serve them breakfast, have 1st class accommodations, and carry them to their destinations, and they would still complain.
@@jerrypeukert5732
My gosh! I've been outta of New Yawk a long time. When did the fare go to $2.75?
Jeez! I think it was 50 cents? When I was there last. Been over 20 years now. It was only for a minute, my father passed away. But I had left maybe 3 years before. I miss him, and I miss NY. I was born and raised in N.Y. Never would've thought I wouldn't get back. But life sometimes has other plans. It's amazing how time just moves on. Sometimes it seems like it was only yesterday. 🙂
@@geoben1810 When I was back there in 1982 visiting Brklyn relatives, the fare was .75. When we moved fr. N.Y. in 1967, it had jumped fr. .15 to .20..!! Yes, time moves along!! Now they've got all these newer cars, most of them aren't worth a shit!! Give me the old, scary, noisy, wicker seat/light bulbed/ exposed fan prewar R1/R9 units, any day!! They were dependable workhorses!
People over here complaining about 2 dollars and change when they can buy all other types of expensive shit. And they complain about the subways and buses. Like Stfu, yall don't know how good yall actually have it until you see a shittier one or we don't have the MTA Anymore.
I work as a machinist in the subway of Moscow. We have a system of ALS-ARS (automatic locomotive speed control system) allows you to keep the minimum interval between trains is one minute thirty seconds at the maximum train speed of 80 km per hour.
"The system is old" and that's why I love riding the train
That's nice and all and I will say as a mechanical engineer myself I am a firm believer of "if it ain't broken, don't fix it." But at $2.75 a ride and growing every two years I find it hard to believe funding for upgrading can't be found. So call up Mr. Cuomo and tell him to stop hoarding that cash his fat pockets don't need and get us a modern communications system.
You don't understand railroads and public transportation. The costs far outweigh the income. That is why ALL passenger railroads are subsidized.
ToxicTiki you don't understand that transit systems are an economic engine for a region. If the business activity paid for the benefit it receives from it's transit system, the transit system would be awash in profit. Transit is a benefit to private businesses subsidized by public money. Yet another example of the Capitalist trick of publicizing cost while privatizing profit.
+ToxicTiki not to mention the older the object is the more the cost for maintaining it goes up.
Sangheili 112 True. That's the nature of the beast. Nobody wants you to shut stuff down to upgrade, or pay more for the improvements, but when it breaks they complain. It's just the way things are.
+ToxicTiki Except in they UK, where they can charge you insane amounts for a shitty service. Because everything from trains to buses is private, and deregulated, and thus only here to make a profit, not to serve as public transportation. An example: stagecoach, which operates the bigger part of bus routes thoughout the country, prides itself on a 100+ million profit. But definitely not on being affordable nor efficient.
"it belongs in a MUSEUM" - Indiana Jones
Love the technical stuff. I worked for BART in the 80's and 90's. The more automated train control (and the less manual control) the better for safety. Thank you.
Interesting to hear about the "old-fashioned way" which includes the interlocking equipment. When I "broke-in" on on the Southern Pacific in 1971, there were some signal towers that had equipment dating back to the WWI era. The power supply for moving the switches was via direct current motors. The signals, I was told, were originally semaphore types. The semaphores had given way to "target signals" prior to my 1971 arrival.
I'm a freight conductor and work out of Houston. The interlocking board almost reminds me of a system we had in which you had to turn knobs to line switches. Neat video, be safe.
that was a great piece! thank you mta!
Hats off all the workers that keep this ancient system running and shame to all the politicians stealing the resources and not giving the workers modern and updated equipment to run
As an Electronics technician I find this all absolutely amazing, and hats off to all of these people doing a wonderful job upgrading these systems, especially maintaining service while doing so, however I do find it hard to believe that it's difficult for them to track the locations of the trains without some type of GPS system of some type at least until the newer updates have taken place.
They do plan for the installation of an Ultra-Wideband system for the MTA signal upgrades. This presumably takes the place of the transponders installed on the bottom of the train for tracking the trains at the MTA Rail Control center in Manhattan. Much of the equipment can be installed in the tunnel walls, while the antennas for it can easily be installed on each end of the train consist.
don't forget, most trains are underground......
The new CBTC tech uses those transponders that locate the train with accuracy down to 6inches then the trains count distance travelled from that point with a combination of radar and tachometer + wheel diameter calculations until they hit the next transponder.
lol at 4:44 you can here how concerned he is reading the script telling people that the train there on is just somewhere in this area and that they don't actually know where they are
"it's not just the architecture that's old. It's also the basic technologies" not off to a great start
never doubt wab-tech signalling equipment, it doesn't have a expiration date if you do the maintenance
I'd like to comment even some of our people and employees are old, but I recognize this is a more serious video.
@@traindude70 New Tech also doesn’t have an expiration date.
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The MTA subway system is a technological marvel… they’re doing pretty good moving 8 million people a day with technology from 1920
The closest I've seen subway trains operate is in Madrid, Spain. Watch the trains go by in a busy station. You can heard another train arriving before the current train in the station has completely left.
You'd think a city like New York could have automated subways by now. Many other cities have had them for years now.
flyingchimp99 This city is always a target for evildoers, so it makes sense for them to continue using this control system, as antiquated as it may be.
TheMusketITuckedIt So are other cities.
flyingchimp99 I'm all for the old tech. with as much of a target as NYC actually is, old tech is more reliable and cant be hacked.
flyingchimp99 driverless trains cost way more (mostly for intrusion prevention and detection) and the delays when they occur take longer to recover from.
+Sunny Raines I prefer having a person up front driving the train I am riding. Yeah, it means you have to pay a person a salary to sit up front and drive the train. But It means a paycheck at the end of the week and I feel safer knowing there is a trained individual in control of the train I am riding. The idea of having a machine doing the driving doesn't set well with me.
Can't wait for CBTC to be installed and activated on the IND Queens Blvd line!
Wheatley GLADOS Slowly but surely. It should be done in summer 2022.
CBTC BIE.
I can’t wait for CBTC on the Queens Blvd Line to start working
Absolutely amazing! What a work and what a system! Seeing this makes me want to go back to NYC very soon! :-)
I've seen a (L) train operator using CBTC nd I noticed the train driving itself, stopping at every station by itself I thought it was cool. I also seen the driver get out of his seat while the train was breaking into one of the Manhattan stations.
I noticed this everytime I've missed a (L) train, that there's always another (L) train behind driving really close to the one that left the station that I missed at the morning rush hour
Im a train Fanatic i know right, i recently saw like yesterday around 9pm on Livonia Ave a train operator on the manhattan bound platform was on his phone while the train was breakin into the station💯💯
Camara Dëx And they say that this is better.
Blake McNamara It is better. CBTC has been in operation on the Canarsie Line for nearly 6 years, and so far, not a single crash. Compare that to what happened in 1995, when a J train crashed into an M train on the Williamsburg Bridge since the signal system did not work.
Why they don't just make them fully automatic ?
French Dude Last time we tried reducing the number of employees on the train there was backlash from the union since it violated outdated union rules.
You guys have to fix Chambers Street it looks horrific.
Carl Smith What does this have to do with CBTC signaling?
@@TheRailLeaguer its a reference to a jon bois video....
Never, it’s history and that disgusting station, it’s actually the result of the 2005 Chambers Street tower fire
Carl Keep clean, but interesting historically.
Chambers St is like the Rolling Stones of subway stations: old, weathered, haggard, but still humming along.
This is a great behind the scenes video of some train control aspects of the NYC subway. I learned a lot from this video. Thank you!
Really great explanations and a balance between detailed and easy to understand.
As a driver on the MTA subway system, I like CBTC because I can drive the train when I am drunk and there is much less possibility of causing an accident.
Coming into work intoxicated is the LAST thing you need to do. It doesn’t matter that if the train is automated. You’re still operating the train. You have to stay focused and alcohol impairs your judgement.
Taking “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” to the extreme
I did my college thesis on interlocking towers, this was really cool!
Is it online?
@@danielcallender8649 sadly no.
I trust this more than something that relies on the internet to function.
So you’re saying that you trust the CBTC system?
Before I watched this, I watched an old subway training video from the 80s, and nothing much has changed indeed.
This was a very well put together video. Very informative even if the current political and funding situation doesn't leave a lot of light at the end of this tunnel. But thanks for this informative piece. Would love more like this about the transit system.
This makes me feel so much safer.....(seriously).......thanks MTA!
It's great that train technology has lasted this long, but while NYC is dealing with 100 year old systems, other nations have already upgraded to high-speed rail. What's holding NYC back? Perhaps the US can build fewer military jets.
Lerkero Yes, because what the department of defense decides to spend its money on really does mean that a city level transit system will get less money.
The 100 year old system is great, I've worked with analogous systems on railways in New Zealand and the take home message from them is this: If you maintain it, and use it right it will do exactly what it was designed to do: stop trains from colliding.
Samuel Zelter The US government allocates funding and grants for projects at different levels of government - including the department of defense and states that provide money to counties and cities.
My criticism isn't that the system doesn't work. If something works that doesn't mean it can't be improved to be more efficient. Perhaps a newer system will require less maintenance and provide a better design to prevent trains from colliding.
Lerkero high speed rail is for INTER-city service up to 400 miles. NYCT and other transit systems provides INTRA-city service. There is rarely a need for speeds over 60 mph and in most instances 35 mph works great. AGreed the US should be implementing high speed rail where it makes sense like the Boston to Richmond Northeast Corridor.
+Lerkero Because nobody votes for politicians that are WEAK ON DEFENCE AND WANT THE RUSSIANS AND CHINESE TO WIN.
This gets no funding because it is invisible to regular people.
+Sunny Raines The main issues here are reliability and running costs - as time goes on and these components become harder to replace, they become both less reliable and more expensive to maintain.
It's a bit like having a unique 1930's vehicle - it will get you from a to b just fine, but when it breaks down, which happens frequently, you're going to be paying 10 times as much for parts.
A very interesting video about operations. Well done, but updates would be a plus.
• Love coming to NYC, and being a rider.
• Cheers from The Detroit & Mackinac Railway 🚂
Beautiful. It should become a museum.
Us: yo MTA your systems kinda falling apart...
MTA: no shit, *its old*
Love these videos!
Excellent video
Excellent! So this is how it works
Great video. Got here from the NYT article.
Great video! The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3!
Very cool. The old control equipment that is maintained internally, reminds me of the older components in the FAA's air traffic control system. And if the subway is like the FAA, they could use more funds for upgrading the infrastructure.
Thanks for the very interesting information.
We're long past the point where all this old signaling equipment should have been torn out but the fact that it still does it's originally intended job is a testament to the skills of engineers and mechanics long gone.
It’s not doing it’s job well right now. An upgrade is really needed.
@@TheRailLeaguer They have been upgrading it. The work is mostly done at night between 12am - 5am.
Just because something is old doesn't mean it has to be eliminated. The main concern(s) are how well it works. If its working poorly can it be fixed or what can reliably replace it and will the replacement be as reliable or even more reliable. From a passenger standpoint it doesn't matter if the system is so old that it dates back to the Medieval days or so new that it was just invented. All that matter is that it's reliable, safe, and gets the jobb done in a satisfactory manner.
The technology of the old is usually more reliable, sturdier, and will often last longer than the crap we use today.
Not necessarily, given that many systems around the world use CBTC and it’s been proven to be even more reliable, sturdier, and long-lasting.
Londan underground is WAY older and yet their trains are cleaner and were semi auto(although no CBTC) since 1960s. Londan underground stations are also better looking some stations with screen doors
Why don't you try upgrading the infrastructure with all of these fair hikes rather than lining the pockets of MTA executives?
James Poling it will cost money, this one works fine, more advance system are faster and more efficient but more vulnerable.
+odisy64 depends on how you do it. those rare relay and switches can be converted into modern logic gates and stuff. advance system is not less vulnerable, it's just not done right. if the company can make his own FPGA application and locking it up inside security perimeter, it'll be the same "vulnerability"
people are referring the new system in such way that it can be accessible from anywhere to everywhere and using common protocol on top of that.
A subway ride is cheap compared to every other metro system.
James Poling
Yeah I think the fare hikes are fair.
Just built a new subway line....
C'mon MTA and Cuomo... Let's get this done faster. I'm still late to work because of signals on the 4,5,6 not working. I still have to wait 10 minutes in the morning and sometimes 12 minutes in the late afternoon. This is NYC - speed and efficiency are most important.
Wow... Get some help.
Woah you need to wait a hole 10 MINUTES!?!???
@@Nathan-cv6sm now multiply those 10 minutes by the hourly wages of the millions of passengers that go through the system each year.
Leave earlier...
@@Nathan-cv6sm in a first world major city that is too long... many others are only 3 minutes... learn about how the world works
The issue is not having antiquated stuff; for example, Paris and Montreal metros do have trains that are over 50 years old (MP59 and MR63 most notably). Yet they work. The point is to have something that can work fine on a day to day basis. And of course being able to properly maintain it, this is where it can get tricky.
Funny how they try to make having outdated technology for such an important transportation system a good thing
Nathan Zaremskiy if it works why up Agra’s
Frankly it's impressive how such an old system has been kept working with limited upgrades for so long. Some parts of the UK are also still using semaphores from the early 1900's as well, so it's not unusual.
@@JacobHoggan "if it works"
It doesn't though, they mention several times that reliability is an issue.
The MTA really needs to update this stuff.
The L and the 7 lines now have CBTC. Queens Boulevard (E, F, M, R) is almost done. The Culver line in Brooklyn (F) is being heavily worked on, and the 8th Avenue line (A, C, E) has very recently started. It’s coming on a lot of lines and it’s exciting.
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@@kobyschechter8163 yos
I agree.
@@kobyschechter8163 That is why the N,Q,D,B is filled to brim with r46s and r68s
An interesting video showing the age of the MTA system
That’s old West 4th tower. It was taken out of service about 2 years ago. 34th Street Master took it’s place & it now runs both 6th & 8th Avenue.
I remember signing on at West 4th my first year on the job.
Did they keep the tower as a museum? That 1930s technology really was built to last. It will be interesting to see how long it is before the CBTC system needs upgrading. I hope all the very skilled people working at the 4th St tower were redeployed in other interesting and skilled positions and didn't just lose their jobs.
@@bluewren65, nope. It’s been gone for almost 3 years. Any Tower Operator or Dispatcher that picked that job were redeployed to 34th Street Master. It was demoed a long time ago. That old machine is gone, too.
@@NYG1991 Thank you for your reply. That makes me sad.
@@bluewren65, you’re welcome. It is what it is.
This is really cool!
Here in philly our blue and green line runs on CBTC..good way to keep safe!
Unfortunately the BSL is still ancient technology from 1981
In Australia some of our trains are fully driverless. You can stand right up the front and look out the front window where the drivers cab usually is
Thank you MTA!
This is amazing
Awesome video
that r160 sounded sick!!!!!!
For all saying, "If it aint broke, dont fix it" it causes delays so long it marks the slowest major transportation system in the world. Its so old, theres a MAJOR risk one thing can go wrong and cause a MAJOR disaster. Its not just broke, its outdated and dangerous.
The Fix Block Signaling also cause MASSIVE delays and causes speed control risks for collision
In singapore SMRT or Singapore Mass Rapid Transit PTE LTD, we are currently upgrading our old lines. This includes Sleeper replacement Timber To concrete, 3rd Rail upgrade and CBTC By Thales SelTrac.
And also we are upgrading Train motors from current VVVF to PMSM Motors(Permanent Magnetic Synchronous Motor) This helps train energy to an efficiant rate to 30% and CBTC Will help train frequency from 2Mins waiting time to future 100Sec waiting time. Better Frequency More trains on the line. +mtainfo
syed daniel So which train models have them? I'm assuming Downtown Line and Circle Line trains? Or maybe those new trains for the older North-South/East-West Trains that rolled out?
Fatal_Taco The C151s have the PMSM motors (for now).
The C951 (for DTL), the C830/C830A/C830C (for the CCL), the C651, C151B, C151C (2019)(for the NSEWL), the C751A/C751C (for the NEL) and maybe the CT251 (for the TECL in 2019) have the Thales CBTC.
All lines will be resignalled anyways
Adelaide signal cabin (South Australia) had similar interlocking machine & mimic board, all went in late 1980's.
You are rocking and amazing
Doesn't it look the same with ATP(Automatic Train Protection)? CBTC looks a lot like it. Here in Athens, Greece, in the subway system, that is what they use. For example, a train can get clearance when stoped at a station, but if the ahead train is close enough, instead of 70-80 Km/h, it will get a 40 maybe limit. This helps a lot to maintain a steady and of course a safe, time and distance.
Fantastic!
beautiful
This is Awesome!!!!! :-D
kev p I agree. This is the one thing needed to make our subway system more reliable. With installation on Queens Blvd, Lower 8th Avenue, Lexington IRT, and others, I hope to reap the benefits of additional train service.
Do y'all have any plans on saving that old interlocking machine for a museum whenever it's retired or replaced?
Wow, this tower is still like this. Amazing.
what a great video
Amazing 👏
This is really cool😊😊😊
Came here to cleanse my palette after being horrified by the quality of the New York Times documentary about late trains. Their referencing of this MTA video was the single redeeming moment in their video. Great work, MTA!
The equipment may be old, but at least it's 100% hacker proof. Just make sure that when you update the system, you don't connect it to the internet. Everything that gets connected to the internet becomes a security risk.
+Kabuki Jo really? they can "hack" the lines though.
but guess what? they don't get any money from it.
Well if someone really wanted to go digging for wires in the tunnels then you can't really consider the current system hacker-proof.
But yes, connection to the internet will pose a big risk, although I don't see why there would be any reason to do so.
It would be on their own intranet if anything.
Kabuki Jo It dont need no hackers to break down all the time.
connect to the net? nah no use for MTA to connect the system to the net tho
Add to that any RF interference could cause major issues.
ニューヨーク地下鉄の制御設備は結構古そうですね。新たに無線式の制御システムを導入して更新するのですね。
Impressive old tec still in use
“The itrack system is what it’s called.” Shows composition book.
This is a no_brainer. Hopefully whatever funds are being remitted for Capital Improvement will go to replacing those relays in that West 4th Street Station Tower with server racks like one would find in a datacenter.
smoothjazzaxe They plan to replace the entire 6th Avenue and 8th Avenue Lines with CBTC, so that tower should be updated to have CBTC equipment.
@@TheRailLeaguer yeah it wouldn't make sense ( and neither dollars ) to keep the tower circuitry and just replace the track equipment
Nice!
A crazy world we don't know nothing about... amazing :)
Hi, my name is Trevor, I was born and raised in New York City, from The Bronx. I was never an employee with the transit authority, but I almost know how the light signals works on the subway trains. I always been fascinated with the signaling of the lights of the signals where a train will go by one of the blocks where it turns it to red as it's going through that particular signal or block. I even know how it works where you can see a split of the track where once the wheels goes over that particular split that's where the signal lights gets tripped to a different signal otherwise known as red signal, I also notice when the train is clear it will have a yellow Bracket I really don't know the name of it, or what you call it, but it pops up every time the train clears's that particular block or signal, so I'm guessing it's the emergency breaker, it will stop the train if a train is going too fast tripping that signal. I noticed something new, and I would like to know more about this new system of the traffic light system of the green flashing light on the signals is this part of the new CBTC system? I have also have seen this flashing green lights signal in Atlanta, Georgia. Is this where did you get the idea of the green flashing lights from? I moved to Atlanta in 89 and I lived there for 30 years and I've also been fascinated with the trains in Atlanta as well as the transit system called Marta.
So, this is similar to how aircraft and ships now use respectively different but similar technologies... for location tracking via satellite or ground-based communications. The way the FAA may be ultimately going with ATC in the USA anyway, is pilot-to-pilot. So like if that translates to the NYC subway I'm not sure but it'd basically be like that.
I was linked this video on an article about organizations that still use outdated computers....this has to be one of the oldest "computers" still used!!😗
Hey, can someone explain to me why its already Q2 of 2017 (as of putting this up), and Flushing Line hasn't started CBTC? Its killing me the space on rush hour, and its like they shut down like rarely. If the MTA is gonna do CBTC on Flushing Line, at least get it done with, instead of spreading it out. I think some CBTC things are breaking on Flushing Line even though they aren't being used.
@ -- Wow. Buss fuses. I can't even remember the last time I saw buss fuses.
Can anyone tell me who does the music in the background of this?
I love railroad relays I have a lot of them
Just finished watching video. MTA, great job but please update that system in the beginning of this video.
Is cbtc being installed on the 2nd Ave line as they construct it?
***** yes
Now thats how (SG) Signaller role is made in stepford county railway
@@apeami8953 THEN MIND UR BUSINESS
Queens Blvd line is up next after the 7. I think it says somewhere (can't recall, sorry) that the MTA currently runs 29 TPH (trains per hour) on the Queens Blvd express tracks. With CBTC+ATO, they hope to run 32 TPH on the Express tracks. An additional 3 TPH doesn't sound like much, but keep in mind that (according to Wikipedia) the R160B cars have a *theoretical* maximum capacity of 258 per car (52 seated, 206 standing). Practically, that won't be achieved, so we'll assume that an R160B's *practical* maximum capacity is 92% of the theoretical capacity, or in this case, roughly 237 people. Apply that to a 10-car train, and that's an extra 2,370 people per train. For the 3 TPH extra, that's an additional 7,110 people per hour on the Express tracks. That's a fairly impressive capacity increase for a line running at very, very close to 100% capacity.
I personally think that in order to take less time overall, that the Express tracks should be taken completely out-of-service. To mitigate the inconvenience, I propose the following:
>Truncate the M at Delancey/Essex Sts in Manhattan. Temporarily stop running the W, and reroute the R to Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to replace the W (temporarily). Finally, reroute the E to run alongside the F between W 4th St/Washington Sq and 21st St/Queensbridge (via the 6th Ave Local and the 63rd Street Connection). Then run the E/F via the Queens Blvd *Local* to Briarwood/Van Wyck, after which the E and F will split and run as normal to Jamaica Ctr-Parsons/Archer and Jamaica-179th St, respectively.
>Integrate fares on the LIRR and Subway in Queens, by making rides from QBL stations and the Woodside, Flushing-Main Street, Forest Hills, Kew Gardens, Jamaica, Hollis, and Queens Village stations, onto Subway lines in Manhattan, only the cost of a single Subway ride. Unlimited Ride 7-day passes will also work for this. For example, someone traveling from Rego Park-63rd Dr to 59th St/Columbus Circle could take the E/F to 74th/Jackson Heights, the 7 to Woodside, the LIRR to Penn Station, and the A to 59th/Columbus; they could do all of this on just one fare of $2.75. Another example: Someone who normally travels only by Subway between Jamaica-179th Street and 23th Street on the F/M (6th Ave line), could instead take the F to Kew Gardens, walk from the Subway to the LIRR, take the LIRR to Penn Station, then take the 1 train to 23rd Street on 7th Ave, and would only be 1 block west of their usual arrival station.
>Operate a non-stop bus route every 5 minutes between Briarwood/Van Wyck (E/F) and Middle Village/Metropolitan Ave (M) to carry riders who work closer to Lower Manhattan than Midtown, who would normally take the QBL to Court Sq for the G, or who might stay on the E or F to get to their workplace south of 14th Street.
After the Express tracks are finished, the Local tracks would have CBTC installed. For this, I recommend reconstructing the 74th St/Jackson Heights station on the 7 train to serve both Local *and* Express trains. I also recommend running a replacement bus service between Queens Plaza and Forest Hills-71st Ave. This would only stop at the Subway stations themselves, not stopping in between. To make up for the non-sheltered walks to the stations, temporarily remove parking on the outer lanes of Queens Blvd, and run the buses in those parking areas as a de-facto bus lane. Also run the buses no less frequent than every 4 minutes (traffic permitting). Because the Local tracks are out of service, keep the pattern for the M, R, and W trains in place until the Local tracks have CBTC installed. Because the QBL Express CBTC upgrade includes the 53rd St line, route the E back through Queens Plaza, Court Sq, and under 53rd St. Create a free Metrocard-only transfer from Queens Plaza to Queens*boro* Plaza to provide other options for getting into Manhattan. Keep the F running in its normal pattern. Get rid of the non-stop bus route from Briarwood/Van Wyck to Middle Village/Metropolitan Ave, as the QBL Express tracks are back in service at this point. However, keep the LIRR transfer incentives and expand the services covered by a single $2.75 fare to the QBL Local bus replacement service.
HostilePancakes, The One and Only I don’t think we need to make 74th Street-Broadway an express station. It would make the already-crowded expresses even more crowded and the locals would be virtually empty. Having the expressed not stop there would balance out the loads.
In dublin ireland we just got our first bus stop