Testing the Newest Low Consumption Toilets | Ask This Old House
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.พ. 2019
- Ask This Old House plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey travels to a plumbing facility in New Jersey to learn about advances in toilet engineering that help save water.
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Steps:
1. A series of tests are performed on new designs of toilets to ensure they are achieving the goal of minimizing the water usage of toilets without compromising their cleaning and waste disposal abilities.
2. First, prototypes are created and tested to measure water usage.
3. Once the prototype passes a series of water usage tests, a real model is built and put through an additional series of tests.
4. One test measures the distance the low flow toilet is able to move waste material.
5. Another test measures the quantity of material, both big and small, that can be flushed down the toilet.
6. Another test ensures that the bowl remains clean after every flush.
Resources:
Richard toured the American Standard test facility (www.americanstandard-us.com/). The toilet with two flush valves for better bowl cleaning is part of the VorMax collection.
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Testing the Newest Low Consumption Toilets | Ask This Old House
/ thisoldhouse - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Didn’t have a dad growing up, thank y’all for teaching me everything I need to know to take care of my future family.
I can be your daddy.
Bruh, typical dad won't go that far into toilet physics. The generalities, *maybe*, but you didn't miss out too much with no dad when it comes to toilets.
Girls now can do this stuff too. Just watch youtube.
@@suzanneseale9543 They can clean my toilets
This is awesome. So much thought put into it. The miso paste cracked me up.
They should have colored them orange
Please do a video on sewer systems. Particularly the importance of proper venting. I loved your water and steam hammer videos.
@@zombiekush760 stop eating straight Tang.
Like poo
It's so awesome to see you here!
I think you should have explained the miso paste before showing the dude grabbing it with his hands
Good thing he didn’t eat it like in the movie Caddyshack.
They could have used a lighter colored miso paste. Seems like the director was going for shock value in that scene!
@@jazzjohn2 The director had nothing to do with what that company uses.
Hahahahahaha so true
When I was in high school I worked at an arby's, I often had to clean the bathrooms. I am confident your laboratory tests are inadequate.
I'm sure others have brought this up but we don't poop hard round smooth balls and our poop is not encased in a plastic bag. Not trying to be gross but poop is more like wet sticky cement or gumbo, heavy clay, mud. Many times in a 3-gallon flush toilet the thick sticky stuff just won't go down and out comes the plunger, not a pretty site. They need more realistic test media to solve problems in the real world.
.. those polyballs will never stop!! Rolling like maniacs. Try cubes or something. Or those miso things.
They need to put like 40 of them in the toilet to see if the toilet will get clogged - of course the 12 went down just fine - ridiculous. Forget the standard - the standard needs to be a little bit better than what it is. They need a bowl or whatever is set up to make the bowl and flushing and whatever else to flush to make it so that people only need to flush one time (or two times if needed) if there are big things in the toilet. I understand if it will cause more water use and pressure to push the stuff down the toilet and where it needs to go but still it will save people time, less water usage and money.
REcently removed a regular round toilet that was 1.6 gal flush which was handling the waste products fine. Put in an ADA Sterling 1.28 and immediately started having problems with it flushing it down. What a mess, product clogged up the trap, stool auger wouldn't release it, figured it had to be further down the line... push come to shove... had the main cleared which brought nothing much back to indicate a problem. $250 later and the next day, same issue. It has become an ongoing problem. Some medications make for bricks and they don't flush well. I am in the process of adapting the flush valve tube by adding a 3/4" pvc coupling (amazingly it fit) and will cut a few varying lengths of tube to see if I can get the water level up in the tank. I hope it works. Will have to see if the fill valve float will accommodate this maneuver! They currently have to flush at least 3 times with plunging going on. This water saving only saves water if it works... right now we are wasting 3x as much water as we used to. Wish me luck...
Gee, i just bought an old American standard from a plumbing salvage yard and installed it. Works great cheap to rebuild. Pushes the waste through old cast iron and into the city sewer.
Did the pvc trick work?
What's the name of the toilet with dual valves, when i google it all comes up dual flush :/
Most people don't pump out rabbit pellets. People usually push out somewhere between a stake and dropping an engine block into the porcelain.
I've never understood why big box stores don't install the toilet's they are selling in their restrooms so buyers can take a test drive. That's a real-life test.
The only place that would do that is a store dedicated to only toilets.
They would probably be always calling for a plumber or the customers wasting water with 2 or more flushes. I just picked up a Gerber Viper toilet--liking it. The plumbing store where I got it had Kohler toilets also. In fact, there was one in their rest room. But I decided to go with the Viper based on a plumber's recommendation on YT.
The problem lies with the difference between a homeowner toilet and a commercial toilet. Public toilets almost never have a tank and use what's called a flushometer. This is to keep people from hiding things they're not supposed to be hiding in the tank. Flushometers aren't used in homes because a flushometer requires higher water pressure to operate, and also because they're loud.
@@tier3rd375 I was had a summer job dumping trash in a factory's corporate office. One of the co-workers told me that they removed the toilets with tanks because the executives would hide their bottles of booze in them.
@@AStanton1966 You would think that being an executive that they would have their own desk.
I love how they spend the first half of the video skirting around the idea of poop, only to suddenly whip out a big box of homemade dookie that they then try to ram down its throat.
Great if we pooped wet poly balls
Well you beat me to the punch line .
Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking, "Oh great... round balls will go down a smooth pipe ... probably if there was no water to push them". Do that brown miso paste poop test on that pipe and lets see if it pushes it all along.
@@atherahmed6397 only if I eat a lot of grapes.
Am I the only one laughing when the guy starts grabbing shit I mean miso paste
@@Mike__B miso paste and a rusty old cast-iron clogged with tree roots
I can't speak for everyone here, but what I've found just asking around at small local businesses in my town is that the most efficient option is urinals. Urinals use barely any water for when men pee, and you've still got a higher consumption toilet for the poops, since people (including myself) still tend to clog the low flows. However, it is cool to see that low flow technology is getting better, and I like the double flapper idea.
Random Stuff In Oregon when I get a house I’m definitely gonna have a urinal for the laughs and practicality of them
I'm never eating miso paste again. Kudos to Rich for remaining professional 😂
I wonder if they had to do several takes on that scene.😁
Thanks, TOH. Really good info.
Bought a house recently and really glad this channel exists!
One comment concerning "Low Consumption" toilets is, if you have a exceptionally long waste line which runs from the farthest point in the home and eventually, another even longer run from the home to the street, some of these Low Consumption toilets may not be able to "push" the waste to the street efficiently with LESS WATER behind it. You may find clogging problems easier to come by. Personally, I am not sold on these low usage toilets in my opinion.
I noticed in the testing they did none of what they tested was shall we say sticky... It would have been a little more realistic if they would have cut open two of those miso paste sleeves are stirred in some nice thick chocolate pudding to add some friction and hold back and then see how far it makes it down the line
If I took a dump in that it would back up and flood the house, corn chunks would be everywhere!
@@allentoyokawa9068 dude… LOL
@@allentoyokawa9068gross
I’ve made my 1.28g toilet use about 2g to make sure that it has enough drain line carry
Ok, the first test with the balls doesn't seem fair. You could eliminate the water and just drop the balls into the tubing and at 1/4" per foot they are going to roll at least 40' downhill on their own.
So is that final toilet that was demonstrated in production yet?
You can say that again,and you can get a toilet like the final toilet that was shown,buy a TOTO Drake 2 with tornado flush.
They should test toilet papers or somethings other than balls.
@@HsingSun I suspect they don't because objects like toilet paper behave too eraticly to make for a reliable test that can deliver the same results for a given configuration.
Water (fluids in general) alone is really hard to simulate, add in stuff like toilet paper and you get chaos, which we can define as systems where a slight change in initial conditions results on a major change later on.
Toilet paper pliable enough to align itself with the flow, but more eh, 'solid' waste can get blocked spanwise, or stick to the walls of a pipe, causing turbulence which reduces the force of flow downstream.
For an iterative R&D process, where you need to be able to see the effect of small changes in design, using a test which varies so much isn't helpful, so they use objects like plastic balls made to a certain spec. Of course, before the product is ready to market, I'm sure they use more, uh, 'real world tests'.
American Standard VorMax
This is by far my favorite episode. 👍
That's it! I'm gonna plumb my house with clear PVC!
I'd say streamlining the cavity just under the flush valve would help a great deal! With an insert of some kind so as not to make the walls too thick as that would cause problems in the kiln.
Not real test use something not round or bagged. Many homes have more then 40 foot sewers. I been a plumber for 30 years and have seen many problems with low flow stools
Low-flow toilets and front-loader washers mean sewer pipes never get flushed like they used to. Even tho I'm not on septic, I dose my sewer pipes with Rid-X.
4:46 I wanted to see that go down the long drain pipe. Just to see how far it goes. Even if its angled... that's a lot of "Miso" xD
Perfectly round balls rolling down a perfectly clean pipe that's pitched down........Brilliant Test!
Excellent Research...
I can't help but to giggle throughout this video... But I also learned a lot!
So I looked further into this and imo it doesn't work. The reason being is that you need more water to carry the waste down the sewer lines. In this test the pipes were all clean and they used balls? A real sewer line is rusted and the waste will catch and build up. SF had this problem..
I have the same exact toilet vormax and I love it
I wish I remember the brand, but my dad had installed a pressurized water tank toilet. It used very little water, but pressurized it. When you flushed it sounded like a jet engine. it was great. Never plugged up.
It was probably a Sloan Powerflush or something like that. If you simply search "pressure assist toilet" you'll most likely find what you're looking for.
Balls roll, turds don't.
Don't turds roll down hill...
I have that last toilet they showed. Works great. They also used miso paste tubes. A little more realistic than the balls.
@@aeros5678 maybe your turds!!! do you bark?
turds smear.
The ball's serve a function or else they wouldn't use them, and the meso paste is closer to what one would expect. Overall a quite educational video.
Toilet engineering is a lot more complex than I thought. Great work guys!
I enjoyed that video. Keeping some of the water trapped below the bowl ... I never saw a working demonstration of that before. I've heard of "pre-loaded" toilets, and now I understand the concept.
same reason sink & tubs have a U shaped trap pipe. if it didn't you'd smell sewer gases. it also keeps the critters from coming up the drain pipe and into your house.
Very informative.
Would've been nice to know what brand/models we were watching be tested...
My only complaint about this show. They never tell you the brand they are demonstrating. Really hated the one where they were talking about an app to document the contents of your home. They gave a very extensive review but never told you what the name of the app was. For this video though, it appears they are American Standard toilets.
What good are the newest toilets when you have to flush at least 3 times at 1.28 gallons versus 1 time using 3.5 gallons
90 % of the time you're just going number one in which case 1.28 is plenty for a flush.
Tanks.....
you should have done some tests with toilet paper to simulate real world situations...
But then they can't advertise super low flow toilets. Ever been to california? You need two flushes to get JUST some tissue down the pipe.
@@FullSendPrecision I live in California, and never needed more than one flush on any toilet I've used.
@@Mike__B Then you must have a very petite and dirty bum.
@@BoxxerCore Not any dirtier than the next guy, I just don't require half a roll of toilet paper to clean myself.
@@FullSendPrecision Today's toilets work better than ever now. I'll give you there are old ones still out there that need to be replaced.
So rare that changes to products actually improve it!!!!
I like this. I wish that I could get the Clear Toilet Version and the other thing is I would love to see it use less than half of that water. Three it the toilet bowl and tank could be lit up with color changing lights that would seal the deal.
One problem with reducing the amount of water is in older homes, or where septic pipes are. Tree roots tend to penetrate the pipes. Reducing the amount of water will increase root activity.
Stealth! It’s awesome! .8 gallons and no problems so far, been a couple months
Less than 1 Gallon of Water 💦 isn't enough
Wow that's very good and I love ur show
4:20 miso ‘links’ do an excellent job of approximating both plop and crayoning. SCIENCE!
Very informative. Saving water saves money
2 separate flush values will require another leaky gasket to replace. Isn't there another way to apportion the water flow?
Would be awesome to have a clear see through toilet.
I wish I could show people Toilet physics simulations on my laptop. Quite the conversation piece hahaha
Awesome!
Please post the make and model number of the last toilet in the video . The best seat in the house ! Thanks .
Quote of the day... “go big or go home”
How about teflon coating the bowl like on an airplane?!
I haven’t seen anything (yet), but I
Would the 2-1/4” trap be better than the 2-1/8” trap in clearing the bowl with less water 1.28 gal. In addition, pair it with a 1.6 gal. capacity.
So neat.
which manufactureres have all those features described in that wonderful video?
8:00, Whoosh! I want that toilet. :)
I had to pause to read the comments as soon as the miso paste showed up to the pool party
7 links of miso. I freaking died. Buying a merch shirt just for that.
I like the dual release idea! What are these called and where can I get one :-)
I installed clear sewer line in my basement as well,but also added a corkscrew and a couple of loopty-loops for more entertainment. 🐒💩🚽
This was a somewhat surreal This Old House video. The guys standing around running computer simulations of the toilet reminded me of the Adult Swim "Smart Pipe" video, which is a must watch. 😅
How are flushing round balls (which will roll down a pitched pipe-regardless of water amount) an accurate portrail of the oblong waste that I'm hoping to get rid of??
Can you believe they test the speed and the velocity?!
Thank you for this video -- important stuff -- but was anyone on your staff (shooting crew, editing, etc.) laughing maniacally during production, or is it just me?
What kind of toilet they are testing and where can I get one
This is fitting as I am watching this while on the toilet.
nice now i gotta use the toilet
Oh, a nice unique and cutting edge dual flapper system. I can't wait to see how much those cost when I have to buy a replacement...
I have that toilet, it is so nice I have never had to plunge that thing and I will tell you I have tried and so has my brother over Thanksgiving and Christmas vacations
What brand/model is it?
@@jazzjohn2 this video was filmed at American Standard and the toilet demonstrated with the two flaps is of the VorMax variation.
James may not be the hero we deserve but he's the hero we need.
Kinda disappointed they didn't mention MaP testing for toilets - it's how the industry rigorously quantifies flush performance
What kind of toilet was that last one with no holes on the rim? Great idea.
It's a line of American Standard VorMax toilets. They come in a few models like the Optum, Esteem, and Astute. I believe there is also a Yorkville VorMax variant.
The balls would have rolled away with no water...
They wouldn't have made it past the trap in the toilet without water...
Why not just move the water tank back to the ceiling like it was 60 years ago?
Because hydrostatic pressure is an insignificant factor here. Raising a tank up through a gravity fed flush box by about 6 feet gives about 2.6 psi increase. Also pull chain tanks are far more than 60 years old.
Just pull the plug having a big party and roof on fire
@@Furiends 'more then 60 years old '
Is that your little straw man?
@@andriyshapovalov8886 1. This is a 2 year old comment you're replying to. 2. pull chain cisterns with wash down pans or bowls were invented in the Victorian era well over century ago. Siphonic toilets eliminated the need for a raised cistern. Although they persisted for aesthetic reasons.
@@FuriendsOP stated when they were common, not when they were invented nor how old they ere. So you are arguing a straw man.
Also if it bothers you, you should delete all your expired comments.
They would go down with or without water. Other than the siphon, there's nothing to stop them from ROLLING their way through your system... A bit of a glaring error in your test assembly!
And I'm using an exclamation mark because I wanted to say "they know their shit!"
I am planning on two Toto Drake toilets when I remodel my house. I have heard good things about them. Has anyone had experience using Toto? I would like to hear opinions before I buy them.
Thanks
@RichardTrethewey 3:34 you would say, "it looks like we passed" ...
Flushing 95% of material means you will have to flush twice, thereby using 2.4 gallons per use.
I wonder how long the flappers will last and does it “flush” harder? Is the lever harder to push by hand?
The lever I imagine would feel pretty normal. And the flappers would last as long as they would in a normal toilet.
PRETTY COOL
All joking aside, toilet improvements can only do so much to reduce water use. Those areas that need water conservation please everybody do the best you can. Thanks!
“We’re really going to stretch it” hahha
Watching this on the toilet :D
Great
I wonder how many Couric's is even to seven miso links
So what would be a good toilet to buy
How is flushing round balls a test? Even without water they will roll 40 feet easily.
When we moved into our house I had to disable the water saver feature in one of the toilet's tanks because it never got all the solids out of the bowl. Plus we get plenty of flooding in MN so I don't think we're that hard up on water over here.
That means you'll be using over 5 gallons of water you ought to reactivate the water saving feature
@@stephensnell1379 What? Water saver is 1.28 GPF. Non water saver is typically 1.6. So a difference of 0.32 gallons. You were WAY off. Also he should use all the water he needs. You feel free to be a good little water saver all you want. Never mind that the planet is 70% covered in water. We ain't running out but keep letting the politicians and media brain wash you into being a good little sheep.
Very cool job, flushing toilets all day long
What's the Brand on this toilet and model #?
I for one will not take this sitting down
For some odd reason, this video does not specify the company/brand, or the model of the toilet featured. I researched this, and I can tell you this is American Standard, and the model is the Optum VorMax.
How did he get one of his cutaways into this guys place of business! Amazing
That's good but what is the most reliable and flushing a bowl clean toilet brand and model?
what brand was the toilet tested
If we really wanted to conserve water the water utilities would not punish those that conserve water. We typically pay for water we don't use because we often use less than the minimum billable amount. So do we really want to reduce water consumption?
Yep. I use 1,000-3,000 gallons every 3 months, but get billed for 9,000.
I gotta say that's where I like my utility department, charges for every 750 gallons that you use and the homes that are the conserving the most get $5.00 of their bill.
these toilets are great for drain cleaning guys..they are getting better but the the standard will be the 1 and 2 separate flush ones..
What brand has the best non clogging toilet? I'm not looking to save water, just want poop and toilet paper gone when I flush.
A vintage ''Standard'' Cadet from the 50s or 60s
I made my own stick shift variable flush wall mounted toilet. Tank is on the opposite side of the wall.
Mostly the standard here in Germany these days to install wall mounted toilets. But the tank is inside of the wall covered with plaster board, in most cases this green board which is rated for damp locations and then tiled or covered with glass fibre wall"paper". Variable flush is actually no new thing here, got that here already 25-30 years ago, on these old ones you could interrupt the flush at any time. It was shaped like a seesaw, pushed on the right side and the flush started (left side of the lever going up). To interrupt push the left side down:
images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4193wRHkseL._SY355_.jpg
My parents still have one such a toilet at home, the other one is wall mounted.
These new toilets only work in these videos. I wish I could find one of those old 6 gallon flush toilets. How is it saving water when you have to flush two or three times to empty the bowl? And I have had three homes and even replaced toilets twice trying to get a good flusher.
1.28 * 3 = 3.84
Still almost half as much water as a 6 gallon flush, even using your example.
Hell, even 1.6 * 3 is less than 6 gallons by over 1 gallon. I can't imagine a 6 gallon flush, that's completely wasteful.
If you're flushing 2 or 3 times then you probably didn't install the refill tube correctly (should flow directly into overflow tube). This is a common mistake that is hard to catch by the unaware consumer (toilet will still flush but very weakly).
@@Craigthepope This is on both toilets, two different houses and one of the toilets is brand new and came completely assembled. And, yes the fill tube is installed correctly.
So who makes these toilets and were can I buy one.