Sorry for the delay with this one folks, but hope you all enjoy this promised analysis video of the Janissary! As mentioned in the video, I will be away from my PC for a few weeks, but I will be back with many videos in December. I will be launching a new series for AoE4, so stay tuned. Thanks for tuning in. :)
Could you make a similar video for the Landsknecht? It feels like the only thing they can effectively deal with are spearmen and MaA. Cavalry technically, too, but in reality they can just run away
@@zwojack7285 Landsknecht are exactly like that. its a unit that is strong when mixed with man at arm because it is realisticly impossible to micro ranged unit to focus the Landsknecht.
They should make them fight with swords up close and rifles for long-range targets, as they did with the Immortals in Age of Empires Online project calesta
Janissary: Carries a musket, the one weapon that changed the world. Literally gets slaughtered by toothpicks (ie all the other weapons/units in this game)
yeah, Janissaries were incredible elite warrirors of the Ottoman empire, not sure how they thought it would be cool to make them so weak, maybe for balance changes.
I mean on the era that aoe4 covers you would never see arquebus alone they where a support element to pikemen and polearm troops And otoman armies althougth what it may seem was mostly consistent of cavalry they tended to have more cavalry than infantry and infantry was also mostly the levies and auxiliary troops from the subjects not the jannisaries
IMO they should have been a stronger version of the hand canoneer. There is no obvious reason why a gunner should be an anti-cavalry specialist. It is counter-intuitive and AoE4's conuters system is already complex enough.
So, from a historical perspective it makes sense because the sound of gunfire would spook horses unless they were highly trained (which was rare). Not sure if that's what the devs were going for though
if the janissaries are not a ranged unit, the ottomans should also have normal H.C. I don't understand why the janissaries aren't just made as a bonus unit like the other races. camel riders, landsknechts, mangudai, mounted archers, genadiers, etc. all agree that the janissaries are not handcannoiers, so the Ottomans lack this unit. Unfortunately, crossbowmen did not replace handcannoneers. And no special unit performs worse compared to the normal version except for the Janissaries. Still a super cool and informative video.
I do agree with this. Make them special HC in imperial age instead of a completely different unit. Keep their uniqueness in castle age with a small buff.
No. The unique funtion on janissaries is to protect siege bro against cav. So always the janissaries has to go with mangonel / great bombards those units melt the archers.
@@cseijifja Same. Idk about your reasoning but my reasoning is ALL ranged units should be weak to Artillery. Janissaries are weak to literally every ranged unit in the game whilst being more expensive than HC and that's kind of bullshit. Janissaries are not just good gunpowder infantry, they're good melee infantry as well. They're one of if not the most robust military unit in the late medieval and throughout the renaissance period. But I agree with one comment in this thread. Make it underpowered so it can be buffed, instead of making it overpowered and then nerfed to oblivion.
you know they suck when he said back them up with spears so to summarize it you are better off making spears instead, more health and they stop charges, cost half the jans, wood instead of gold and only take bonus damage vs archers instead of every ranged unit in the game
The thing is, janissary aren’t a main army unit, they are IMO a support unit. Just mixing a few into your normal army composition makes it much harder for enemy cav
@@maxmustermann3811 I agree. I use them to guard my xbows from cavalry. They're much more reliable in that guarding role than spearman because, unlike spearman, they don't need to expose themselves to archer fire to deal with the threat of cavaly at the frontlines. But they are pretty much unreliable in everything else, which is bad for Ottoman imperial age imo.
The rifle began to be used by the Janissaries as it became widespread in the army from the 16th century. But on the other hand they mostly used sword, shield, reaper and axe + their "smack". They were one of the most terrifying and horrific unit in their timeline but IDK why, AoE team always represent them like only musketeers but actually they are not. I was expecting both ranged and melee unit in AoE4 at least but it's quite same unit as like 2 and 3...
Also it doesn't make any sense for the Ottomans to not have horse archers, I am Alevi-Turkmen, we lived on our horses and the Ottoman empire wouldn't have gotten anywhere without horse archers. Did AoE4 devs do any research on the Ottomans?
It's a balance thing. There's a lot of factions in this game which don't have units which would've made sense historically, because the devs want to keep the factions more varied and balanced.
@@anilkarakaya9343 no, the ottomans used Sipahi cavalry who were horse archers well into the 17th century, and the sipahi could be heavily armoured as well for the highest status ones.
@@anilkarakaya9343 the ottomans made use of troops recruited from the balkans and other territories as the primary force in battles yes, hence why it can be considered 'byzantine' as the byzantines did similar things back in their day. However their own raised troops such as the Sipahi and the Janissaries would make up the last line of defence in a battle and they still made up a significant part of the army. Of those, the sipahi would serve as horse archers and melee cavalry at the same time, and the janissary would serve as foot archers/gunners and melee infantry, in a system very unlike the byzantines.
This video is excellent. Janissary does not fit squarely into the traditional rock-scissor-paper role, so the only way to analyze it is to do all matchups individually and then combine it. Now we see why Janissary is so rare in competitive matches, and "didn't exist" in Redbull Wololo. A shame. But Great Bombard and Grand Galley are even worse
It's historically accurate, however. When wieldable handheld gunpowder guns and weapons first became usable in warfare, in the late and high medieval era, they weren't anywhere near the high velocity high calibre guns we see today. They also didn't have the same accuracy or range as they do today. A bow most certainly outranged a gun, as it does in the game, and it was also much faster to prepare a new arrow than a new shot/pellet.
@@ratzrudi Still even when in range and outnumbering the bow wins, it's rediculous. I could get behind the idea of bows outranging early hand cannons but the shots are so weak even when compared to AoE II. Their guns do the same damage as the arrows. And you can't win even when outnumbering or ambushing the bowmen. It's just bad design. The same balance of bows/crossbows countering handguns and handguns countering everything else can be achieved by just the range difference alone. There's no need for bullshit bonus damages and weak base damage.
@@ratzrudi if you go by that logic, then jannisarries or any other gunpowder unit should cost nothing compared to bowmen, since training a man to shoot an arrow accuratly is way more time intensive and than holding a gun infront of you hoping for the best. So therefore your argument makes no fucking sense, since bowmen themselves are not historically accurate
I haven't been playing long and I'm on a console so take all this as opinion but iI find the flow of units produced to complement one another for the ottoman. The military schools are supposed allow you to field a more diverse army and spend resources on upgrades and siege spears into archers with a mangonel or springald holds up well and adding in jans and bombards to that ball is an easy transition. Make cavalry as needed if the enemy is going mass siege/archers. I find most opponents go mass knights and archers/Xbow in lategame and the bombard jan combo with a few lancers to shield them can be brutal. Side note: the little drummer horse should not be ignored. Pretty sure with multiple meta one can have all three buffs active at once plus the speed buff from the viz point.
crushing in conq with them in every single match that the enemy makes a stables. there is nothing more cost effective in the game than having a small clump of these behind your other units.
Jannisaries are meant to be with speed buffed Mehters. If you give them an “maa front line” and “aoe healers” on top of that. it’s over for any civ. No one beats that
@@depressedespresso3928 they will still be the worst unit. They need more cav dmg. Janissary purpose is having 4-8 around a great bombard to protect those great bombards enemy knights. Knights melt down siege +jans in EVERY ladder game.
@@BuggyDClown-pc7sc Maybe more ranged + removal of the ranged debuff will be the answer. Having the range to perform 2 attacks before being hit sounds great
I think they need to raise their range by a tile or even a half* tile. IMO, the Chinese handcannons should be on equal terms for range with the janissaries with janissaries edging out the chinese with damage by 1 or 2 while retaining that siege repair. China is credited with birthing gunpowder onto the battlefield, but in game they are clearly using some simple weapon designs where as the janissaries have crafted their guns with metal barrels and are specifically trained to use them. Their reload should be improved with the elite upgrade also.
Did they get any buff after this video was made...? I recently picked up the game again, so I was wondering if Janissarys are viable or considered good in any way? ☺️
While you were fighting with wood, we were destroying castles with big cannons. We were firing guns while you were throwing wood into the air. Now we understand that you want to make yourself look bigger here. Because you are small.
I feel like their bonus should be expanded to all melee units, and not just cavalry. Its very strange that they counter cavalry, but the slower infantry units can still beat them rather consistently. That plus their lack of range could be fixed by a buff or by providing the Ottomans with normal hand cannoneers as well.
Oof most comments didn't age well. Either a bunch of bronzies, aoe2 fanatics or overly patriotic turks. Turns out putting ranged units into direct fights (weird how ingame you'll play to avoid that like the plague) doesn't give a great view of reality in the end. Kinda spicy that units with similar stats to a crossbow (to which nearly every age 3 army defaults to for range), will do quite well if you don't let it get bumrushed. Especially if the bumrishing cav gets near insta deleted by them.
This janissary is the worst janissary, that I have seen for ages. Gunpowder “destroys” armored units. Period. This useless thing can not even win against spears, horse archers, streltsy, bowman, longbowman, javelin throwers? Really? Really? It’s anti cav but loses to mangudai, knights, african cavalry? What is this anyway? Than you are wondering why people dont play aoe4. Give janissary a unit count and make them robust like hell. They were the only proffessional army of europe for a long time.
Uuuuhhhh gunpowder didn't destroy armor no questions asked for hundreds of years after it was in use. The term "bullet proof" comes from armorers literally shooting their armor with bullets to "prove" that it could protect against them. So no, gunpowder units absolutely didn't annihilate all armor until well after the middle ages and even the rennaissance. That said, sure, it can be re-balanced for better gameplay. But if no one plays AoE4 then why are we all here watching this video? Lol
this is a great video, but how much does it change when you add mehters, which is what the civ is supposed to use how much does it change when you add mehters, which is what the civ is supposed to use. its like discussing HRE eco without factoring prelates, or mongols without the signal arrow or yam or stone or improved tech
The Janissaries are clearly weak as a single composition. However, in AOE4, the Ottomans become quite powerful during the Age IV, and one of the reasons is the strength of the Janissaries. During the Ottoman's Age IV, most units consisted of Sipahi + Janissaries + Great Bombard. The Janissary is not a unit made for spamming. While sipahi and MAA and others are biding their time at the front line, more than 20 Janissaries open fire from the rear and Great Bombard fire shells, crushing most civilizations' Age IV armies. People underestimate the results of the Janissaries' battles based on only fragmentary results. This is a unit similar to the Terran Siege Tank from StarCraft 1. A unit comprised only of Siege Tanks is easily destroyed by the efficient and mass-produced melee attack units of the Zerg or Protoss, but the core of the Terran army is a 'well-combined army', and having Vultures and Goliaths escorting Siege Tanks is ridiculous. The Ottoman army should also play like this. I noticed a problem while watching several games played by Ottoman users for a while. They entered the Age III with too much hope for the Handcannoneer produced in the Age III, and when the economy was not stabilized, they produced only Janissaries and were trampled by MAA and knights of other civs. Janissaries should begin production in Age 3 middle time when the economy has stabilized and the base is secure. Of course, this does not mean that the Janissary is OP. In particular, gamers like Beasty (of course I respect his skills) are propagating that the Janissaries are a OP unit(S+), but I can't agree with that. Janissary is just... A tier. yeah.
The Janissaries turned the largest western church into a mosque. (Hagia Sophia) Bad game. If the rifle is so weak, why did they use a rifle? The West's hypocritical and false historical view appears in this game. In reality, 100 Janissaries easily defeat 1000 archers. Otherwise, Istanbul would be in the hands of Europe, not the Turks. They were coming together and getting beat up and leaving. They were so afraid that the Turks were coming, they discovered America while escaping from the Ottoman Empire. The Black Sea and the Mediterranean were like a Turkish lake.
I am Alevi, there's a good chance I have an ancestor who was a Janissary. It's highly upsetting seeing them being so awful in this game. There was a reason why the Janissaries were so powerful and effective that the Sultan had to use Sipahi's to betray and destroy the Janissaries. I don't get offended by stuff like this, but damn.
@@crowrider199 Yes the Janissaries were composed of many Orthodox Christian children that were stolen and forced to convert to Islam, but Alevi people were not seen as Muslim, so they took us too. The Janissary Corps school was the Haci Bektaş Veli, an Alevi school.
@@anilkarakaya9343 Yes and no, I think you are misunderstanding me. Janissaries included Alevi-Turkmen. The Janissary corps school was that of Haci Bektaş Veli. The people were a mix of Greek Christians and Alevi because they did not consider us Muslim, it is why there are and have been many pogroms against us. Especially when the Ottoman empire betrayed the Janissaries and uses the Sipahi to do it.
Some may say Janissary is for "protect siege from cav"(?) but fact is, 1- siege kills siege 90%, not cav, 2- the HC / Streltsy unit plays a critical, life-or-death role for all civs in Imperial, and the Ottomans don't have any unit to fill this life-or-death role, 3- Mango +Jan combo is very hard to micro, and so vulnerable vs skilled player, 4- "ranged spearman" function is strcturally redundant, 5- dependence on babysitting from Mango, is recipe for a very useless, terrible unit, 6- Ottomans desperately need tanky Imperial units per population slot, not weak units wasting the pop slot, 7- Great Bombard is too fragile, dies too fast, too weak, too ineffective to be able to make a difference in combo in competitive play etc etc etc. Summary, it all makes no sense. Janissary is iconic and beloved: I DON'T believe AoE4 balance devs are acting in good faith.
why dont you believe the devs are not acting in good faith? its much more likely that they just wanted to make a cool niche unit and missed the mark a bit. people have too much emotions invested into a damn unit and its clouds judgement. honestly i think what they will do is buff the base damage a bit to make it on par with other hand cannoneers and then excel vs cav. dont think devs will change their mind too much about the niche
@@zaganim3813 Fully upgraded, Janissaries do practically match Hand Cannoneers. It's just that they did a strange twist in AOE4 where Janissaries are dramatically lower cost than Hand Cannoneers where in the other AOE2 and AOE3, they were higher cost. In AOE4, a Hand Cannoneer is 240 total cost while Janissary is 160 total cost. To do an accurate cost comparison, you need to compare 2 Hand Cannoneers to 3 Janissaries. On top of that, base production times are 35 seconds for Hand Cannoneers and 24 seconds for Janissaries so you can make 3 janissaries in practically the same time frame as 2 hand cannoneers anyways, and dramatically quicker when you consider the ottoman influence reducing it to 18/15 seconds. When you look at it that way, it makes sense why they feel weak in a 1-to-1 comparison. In fact, I think that's why Janissary Guns exist: to keep their damage almost equal to Hand Cannoneers at equal cost comparison. That +3 boost lets 3 janissaries deal 69 damage where 2 hand cannoneers would deal 70. I do agree with the siege destroys siege thing though. The introduction of the springald just made that the norm and Janissary really isn't a good answer to that from the Ottomans. A Chinese Clocktower Springald after Siege Works can even tank a hit from the Great Bombard.
They have to balance the unit somehow. If the Janissaries could deal with both Infantry and Cavalry, then they'd be unstoppable. :D I do agree though that I would've taken a different approach designing their place in the game.
@@AgeofNoob there's archers/xbow, and these units have 3.5 range. So any ranged unit should deal with them, They should be able to wreak melee units in mass and when microed though. For 100g a unit, they shouldn't die to Spearman, I assume spears don't cost gold like age2
@@AgeofNoob in AoE2 they have less bonus dmg against infantry too, they're mostly to deal with cavalry and siege. and they get wrecked by archers there too.
As kids in Malaysia, we're told about a great empire of the past. When Europeans were pillaging Africa, America and Asia, the Ottomans welcomed all peoples, defeated Europeans in the heart of Europe, and sent powerful navies with gifts and elite troops to defend us: the Janissaries. I can't describe my sadness to see what Age 4 devs have done to the Jans, dude. Our own family name, common here, is a tribute of affection and respect to the great Empire. You did a brilliant analytical video, I just had to comment this.
Yeah, they were so great that about 1/5th of the empire were actual slaves and sex slavery only got banned in the 20th century. The Ottoman empire was somewhat tolerant compared to early modern Europe, but your "Malaysian schools" seem to be spewing pure uncritical propaganda.
dude there is a lot of historical propaganda going on there. i bet ottoman empire did a lot of great things for you country but know that there is a lot of other not so bright parts of history where "welcoming all peoples" is a lie. you know ottoman empire had a slave trade right? sure the war with european countries was a lot about religion but at its heart it was also about economy.
@@Deathskull0001 Gotta love them young boys taken away from their families to become soldiers. In a scale that an african warlord would shed a tear of envy.
@@Deathskull0001 What feudal lord in Europe didn't impose soldier levy on its subjects? Or anywhere in the world ftm? Difference is, they were paid Nothing and got No training, cannon fodder for sacrifice. Janissary was the highest paid, highest status, best training soldier / officer of the age.
So stupid how weak janissaries are. Losing to a Zhuge nu is absurd, as that weapon was considered poor for military use and just suitable for self defense of scholars and women due to the low energy of the darts. In a military setting the darts were poisoned because of how weak they are. They just get destroyed by trash units too, when in their time period they dominated the most advanced armies of their time, like the French at Nicopolis or the cream of Europe's knights at Varna.
So paying food and gold for a reasonably powerful ranged spearman? A real shame that we don't have a bulk army unit, but a specialized counter. As long as we see them fairly frequently it should still be fine.
Would be nice to have the info without micro. as usuallly in big fights it is tough. Does noy look like the Janissary is a good units, and you are better to make spears, requires less micro.
I think they should buff their range a bit and lower that insane bonus damage they take from ranged sources. Otherwise, they are a good option to counter cavalry charges, specially to guard your siege units.
This game developer doesn't know who are the jenisseries period. Also the sipahis stronger than any other units . Also ottoman has also horse archers as well .
It might be better with Mehter but, still Janissaries are horrible! It must be like in the history, the strongest one must be. They could be the most expensive gunners yet the best must be. They should swap with russian one and swap it with terico. Terico should have bonus damage against calvary and they could be weak against others...
takes 50% more damage... there is nothing as stupid as this in the game. why? why he takes more ranged damage? honestly, these developers should turn off their brains and just make janissaries as a skin to handcannoners.
@@AzzeddineXT Makes what? I said CIV win rates, not any specific unit. However you may feel about any of the particular units in the game, the civs have been pretty well balanced overall so far.
Tbh historically you don't do equal number with gunnery, you get as many peasant as you can and give them as many guns as you can then just train them how to load and point their gun at the enemy for few days and they'll plough through anything
Great video as always! Really looking forward to an updated version on which economic upgrades that are worth getting when, now that eco upgrades are cheaper.
good video as usual, the production and editing is impecable as always. but i'm a little dissapointed (english is not my first language and this word it's too strong for what i'm trying to convey but i can't find another that fits) in the analysis part, it's a good analysis but it's have room from improvement. just throwing a unit type against each other is just a face level analysis that more often than not fail to tell the whole story, Specially when is about ranged units. i know that it's imposible to perfect analyse this kind of topic. but some feedback: show us how other similar units perform in the same test to have a point of comparison. also, when analysing ranged units vs melee units don't only show us a fight between the units but also the DPS that the ranged unit deal to the melee unit to have an idea about how they perform when having a meat shield in front. also. some footage/test were recorded during PUP when they were bugged and being considered ranged despite not having the ranged tag? because at 06:09 you say that janissaries take two bonus damage from the Javelins thrower. and at 12:48 you can see some full hp janissaries getting two shooted by the mangonels but that doesn't happens on the live server, they take three mango shots to kill instead of two like archers and crossbows.
While you make good points in the first part of your comment, it's just a matter of time & effort spent, as well as the length of the video. For more detail, the video would include when you'd use Archers vs Crossbows vs Spear, and include critical mass of each vs each type of unit (and take into account blacksmith upgrades and different unique civ upgrades). It's impossible to cover every single scenario in the game without making the video 2 hours. Hence, while I do agree with you, players can still watch this video and get a rough idea on how much damage they deal and take from all units, and they can decide on their own how to engage after a bit of experience. Regarding the second part of your video - all of the footage in the video was filmed using the current live patch. Mangonels' RNG spread matters in whether or not they take the full damage and subsequently die.
@@AgeofNoob thanks for the answer and sorry if i sounded a pedantic. i don't know how to proper phrase myself in english and reading my coment i feel like i sound like and a**hole. just to be clear, amazing video as always, top notch aoe content, and i know that it take a lot of time an effort. . regarding the mangonel part, there is something weird in the footage that you are showing, maybe a bug or something. but the maximun possible damage that a mangonel should deal to a janissarie per voley is 36 (they deal siege damage so it's damage shouldn't be amplified by 50% like the damage of archers, crossbows and springalds. and janissaries not having the ranged tag shouldn´t take the extra 18 bonus damage of mangonel vs ranged units) so the full hp janissaries even if they take full splash damage from both mango shots should survive with 18 hp.
No worries at all mate, no offense taken. :) You make a good point regarding the mangonel damage actually. I'll run some tests to double-check and ask the devs if the interaction is intended. Could be a carry-over bug perhaps.
Really badly designed units overall. It forces the Turks to rely on seige engines. IRL the Ottomans changed warfare, the Janissaries were used as elite shock troops and would constsntly be put in the worst situations available, i.e. a breaking center or full breach in a seige, and they would persevere against anything. These guys literally made the knight obsolete in warfare as it was a complete counter, light armor, far ranging weapon, with am emphasis on mace close to close combat they were ridiculously effective.
AoE4 Janissary = unbelievable trash. AoE4 Great Bombard = unbelievable trash. AoE4 Grand Galley = unbelievable trash. Sipahi's Fortitude = unbelievable trash. Hmmm I see a pattern? All of these are Ottoman units. All are core symbols of the civ soul and culture. I've never seen such an incredible "coincidence"! Lol
I played like 200 games with ottomans without even touching jannisary icon xD I am diamond now with happy stats. Ottomans are just fine. But DO NOT create or try janissaries or GB's.. Devs made ABSOLUTE HUUUGE mistake by designing Ottoman gunpowder units to be niche and crap like this. Idk this game left me speechless about the design. Sipahi+Mehter+Archers+M@A with some Heavy cavalry is only way to go with ottos... WORST UNITS IN THE GAME ! 1) Great Bombards 2) Jannisaries 3) Eleps. 4) Langshedlts
I think with 4 you mean Landsknechte? They are one of the most powerful units in the game, and every pro uses them when playing hre. Also Jans are definetily better than melee elephants
@@maxmustermann3811 yea i mean landsckenete or whatever. U are right maybe they have some way to go. But definetely jans are CRAP i dont even argue about it
Not sure if you meant landsknecht for number 4 but they're far from the top 4 worst in the game. You see them in top-tier competitive matchups all the time.
One of the devs must be either from Greece or Armenia. Ottomans have no real power or strategy to surprise enemy. All UU' s are basically BS. Huge failure.
Hi Age of Noob! is it possible for you to look deeper into units fighting and espiecialy their death animations? Drongo lately has shown closer a death animation of two spearmen killing each other and it looked amaizing.
In summary devs made janissaries as support units for siege units....they heal siege and kills cavs attacking those siege units.....i think devs made jans to protect great bombards....btw the units that really suck vs janissaries are elephants looool....always those poor elephants.....i hope devs give elephant an area damage for tusks or tremple.....save elephants pls
Ottoman minaret used 'Pencil' minaret, different from Persian-Indian/Dehli-Mughal and Arabian-Egyptian style minaret, the dome of Ottoman similar to Byzantine/Eastern Roman style. while in Persia/Iran, India, Central Asia and Iraq used Onion Dome styles.
A little tip: you can clump and shorten the explanation with the match-ups. Just explain similar results at once, no need to go through every single unit. It became kinda repetitive. Nice video though!
Wait a minute! Moustaches ARE seroius business!! Thanks for the video! I don't know what I was expecting from the Janissaries other than being more 'ard than your video depicts. I know that placing them in age 3 means they can't be powerful in all categories, but the janissaries seemingly got pwned more often than not. Plant them with other parts of your military then and have them defend(against cav) and mend artilllery as opposed to being a super unit on it's own.
AOE3's janissaries were very good, even in close combat they showed solid skill and defeated their enemies, but this is unlikely in AOE4 and they don't even have swords
How does the damage interaction work with mangonel? Janissairy are Light Gunpowder Infantry that mean they don't take hte bonus damage from the mangonel. But they take 50% more damage from ranged source does this apply to mangonel?
Great video! I've been playing the Ottomans on ranked, and something I think is underappreciated when testing unit matchups like this is how well the janissary is positioned in the evolving game state of a typical match. Ottomans are currently known for big feudal archer masses with multiple archery ranges built in feudal age. This means that when you get to castle age, you A) already have the ranges you need to start massing janissaries, B) already have a ranged mass that you can just start mixing your janissaries into, and C) will have likely forced your opponent into making cavalry to counter your archers, which you can then counter with janissaries. So I've found that an early castle age switch into janissaries is a really good tactic (except against English lol longbows). Of course, whether janissaries continue to be strong in castle age depends on what the opponent techs into, but they definitely have a stage of the game where they consistently feel powerful imo
@@ilansobel1631 why must the unique unit be spammable? this is like how people play rts when they are a kid. like in starcraft 1 when you fight the AI and build 30 battlecruisers just because its cool.
Hey age of noob! Really great and informative video! The janissary is indeed a very complex unit, two key questions that are left in my mind after watching this video are 1) how do janissaries do vs cavalry compared to the traditional cav counter, the spearman if compared 1 to 1 ? And also 2) how do the jannisarries do compared to the crossbowmen when it comes to units like the knight and sofa ?? I understand probably mixing them with a spear frontline is ideal vs Knights and sofas, as their ranged attack can be very beneficial making them very efficient that way, but from a raw comparison standpoint I want to know what i am getting out of the trade investing my resources into one or the other yk! Thanks again for always producing such amazing content ! (I thought these questions would be addressed like in your MaA vs Landsknecht video ! )
This analysis goes pretty deep but there are a few key asterisks: -You need to actually micro the jans to beat basic spearmen - and even then you lose to basic maa which everyone has -Vs other gunpowder units jans dont scale as hard with numbers - e.g. 30 hc's can take out 45 jans, but as we saw smaller numbers favor the jans. At a critical mass, jans DO NOT counter hcs of any kind. In smaller numbers hc' can also kite jans like most ranged infantry. -Camel archers do not cost gold. Ottomans can get free units, but think very carefully about messing with a food heavy, trash unit back by abba eco. -CA's might struggle (or might not) but horse archers and even tower eles can beat jans in even res if allowed to kite. Most ranged cav outrange jans with the exception of mangudai (that apparently just beat them) and have the speed to keep distance. It takes ranged cav staying in 3.5 tiles for jans to win. In lower numbers, expect kiting, in higher numbers (even pop scenario) stay away from CA's and Mangudai. -Just make ribauldequins instead.
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Sorry for the delay with this one folks, but hope you all enjoy this promised analysis video of the Janissary! As mentioned in the video, I will be away from my PC for a few weeks, but I will be back with many videos in December. I will be launching a new series for AoE4, so stay tuned. Thanks for tuning in. :)
Its better to give a video of good quality late than giving a bad video in time
Could you make a similar video for the Landsknecht? It feels like the only thing they can effectively deal with are spearmen and MaA. Cavalry technically, too, but in reality they can just run away
@@zwojack7285 Landsknecht are exactly like that.
its a unit that is strong when mixed with man at arm because it is realisticly impossible to micro ranged unit to focus the Landsknecht.
They should make them fight with swords up close and rifles for long-range targets, as they did with the Immortals in Age of Empires Online project calesta
AoE 2 and 3 Janissary: super strong and versatile troop but high cost
AoE 4: expensive ranged spearmen
Janissary: Carries a musket, the one weapon that changed the world.
Literally gets slaughtered by toothpicks (ie all the other weapons/units in this game)
yeah, Janissaries were incredible elite warrirors of the Ottoman empire, not sure how they thought it would be cool to make them so weak, maybe for balance changes.
@@attractivegd9531 they were just slave warriors
Musket would be in Age III
This is medieval musket didn't exist yet.
I mean on the era that aoe4 covers you would never see arquebus alone they where a support element to pikemen and polearm troops
And otoman armies althougth what it may seem was mostly consistent of cavalry they tended to have more cavalry than infantry and infantry was also mostly the levies and auxiliary troops from the subjects not the jannisaries
@@attractivegd9531 They were better than carrying Kilij swords
Such a thorough and high quality video, love these!
Glad you like them Duncan!
IMO they should have been a stronger version of the hand canoneer. There is no obvious reason why a gunner should be an anti-cavalry specialist. It is counter-intuitive and AoE4's conuters system is already complex enough.
So, from a historical perspective it makes sense because the sound of gunfire would spook horses unless they were highly trained (which was rare).
Not sure if that's what the devs were going for though
@@Kellethorn If regular hand cannoneers not using silencers, they should have the bonus too then.
if the janissaries are not a ranged unit, the ottomans should also have normal H.C. I don't understand why the janissaries aren't just made as a bonus unit like the other races. camel riders, landsknechts, mangudai, mounted archers, genadiers, etc. all agree that the janissaries are not handcannoiers, so the Ottomans lack this unit. Unfortunately, crossbowmen did not replace handcannoneers. And no special unit performs worse compared to the normal version except for the Janissaries. Still a super cool and informative video.
Yes, I agree that would be nice
I do agree with this. Make them special HC in imperial age instead of a completely different unit. Keep their uniqueness in castle age with a small buff.
Excellent review as usual, thanks for all the work!
No problem! :)
The quality of your Videos is so high. Thank you so much for all the effort you put in here.
extra 50% damage from ranged units is crazy they should remove that
No. The unique funtion on janissaries is to protect siege bro against cav. So always the janissaries has to go with mangonel / great bombards those units melt the archers.
@@carlossime6572 i would rather have the janissiers be weak against artillery really.
@@cseijifja Same. Idk about your reasoning but my reasoning is ALL ranged units should be weak to Artillery. Janissaries are weak to literally every ranged unit in the game whilst being more expensive than HC and that's kind of bullshit. Janissaries are not just good gunpowder infantry, they're good melee infantry as well. They're one of if not the most robust military unit in the late medieval and throughout the renaissance period. But I agree with one comment in this thread. Make it underpowered so it can be buffed, instead of making it overpowered and then nerfed to oblivion.
And to think that the janissaries have a musket, instead of that stick with the metal cylinder of Handcannoneers.
you know they suck when he said back them up with spears
so to summarize it
you are better off making spears instead, more health and they stop charges, cost half the jans, wood instead of gold
and only take bonus damage vs archers instead of every ranged unit in the game
but jans clean up cav much fast than spears in equal numbers.
@@zaganim3813 true, but they are alot more squishier than spearman
The thing is, janissary aren’t a main army unit, they are IMO a support unit. Just mixing a few into your normal army composition makes it much harder for enemy cav
@@maxmustermann3811 I agree. I use them to guard my xbows from cavalry. They're much more reliable in that guarding role than spearman because, unlike spearman, they don't need to expose themselves to archer fire to deal with the threat of cavaly at the frontlines. But they are pretty much unreliable in everything else, which is bad for Ottoman imperial age imo.
@@acommoncommenter9364 that's it, their role is protecting siege or ranged units from cav
But still they need buff, maybe 10 more HP, and 4,5 range?
How are your graphics and shades so good, man its perfect
The rifle began to be used by the Janissaries as it became widespread in the army from the 16th century. But on the other hand they mostly used sword, shield, reaper and axe + their "smack". They were one of the most terrifying and horrific unit in their timeline but IDK why, AoE team always represent them like only musketeers but actually they are not. I was expecting both ranged and melee unit in AoE4 at least but it's quite same unit as like 2 and 3...
Relic probably thought that melee would make them streltsy reskins or something
Also it doesn't make any sense for the Ottomans to not have horse archers, I am Alevi-Turkmen, we lived on our horses and the Ottoman empire wouldn't have gotten anywhere without horse archers. Did AoE4 devs do any research on the Ottomans?
It's a balance thing. There's a lot of factions in this game which don't have units which would've made sense historically, because the devs want to keep the factions more varied and balanced.
Only in early stages. Ottoman army was infantry heavy aside from light cav
@@anilkarakaya9343 no, the ottomans used Sipahi cavalry who were horse archers well into the 17th century, and the sipahi could be heavily armoured as well for the highest status ones.
@@duchessskye4072 their main force was always byzantine style infantry. you can see people like shah ismael mocking them for this
@@anilkarakaya9343 the ottomans made use of troops recruited from the balkans and other territories as the primary force in battles yes, hence why it can be considered 'byzantine' as the byzantines did similar things back in their day.
However their own raised troops such as the Sipahi and the Janissaries would make up the last line of defence in a battle and they still made up a significant part of the army. Of those, the sipahi would serve as horse archers and melee cavalry at the same time, and the janissary would serve as foot archers/gunners and melee infantry, in a system very unlike the byzantines.
Thanks, I will never use Jannisaries after this
This video is excellent. Janissary does not fit squarely into the traditional rock-scissor-paper role, so the only way to analyze it is to do all matchups individually and then combine it. Now we see why Janissary is so rare in competitive matches, and "didn't exist" in Redbull Wololo. A shame. But Great Bombard and Grand Galley are even worse
It is a shit unit.
Guns losing to bows is the worst ape-shit Relic has ever done.
It's historically accurate, however. When wieldable handheld gunpowder guns and weapons first became usable in warfare, in the late and high medieval era, they weren't anywhere near the high velocity high calibre guns we see today. They also didn't have the same accuracy or range as they do today. A bow most certainly outranged a gun, as it does in the game, and it was also much faster to prepare a new arrow than a new shot/pellet.
@@ratzrudi Still even when in range and outnumbering the bow wins, it's rediculous. I could get behind the idea of bows outranging early hand cannons but the shots are so weak even when compared to AoE II. Their guns do the same damage as the arrows. And you can't win even when outnumbering or ambushing the bowmen. It's just bad design. The same balance of bows/crossbows countering handguns and handguns countering everything else can be achieved by just the range difference alone. There's no need for bullshit bonus damages and weak base damage.
@@ratzrudi if you go by that logic, then jannisarries or any other gunpowder unit should cost nothing compared to bowmen, since training a man to shoot an arrow accuratly is way more time intensive and than holding a gun infront of you hoping for the best. So therefore your argument makes no fucking sense, since bowmen themselves are not historically accurate
I haven't been playing long and I'm on a console so take all this as opinion but iI find the flow of units produced to complement one another for the ottoman.
The military schools are supposed allow you to field a more diverse army and spend resources on upgrades and siege spears into archers with a mangonel or springald holds up well and adding in jans and bombards to that ball is an easy transition.
Make cavalry as needed if the enemy is going mass siege/archers.
I find most opponents go mass knights and archers/Xbow in lategame and the bombard jan combo with a few lancers to shield them can be brutal.
Side note: the little drummer horse should not be ignored. Pretty sure with multiple meta one can have all three buffs active at once plus the speed buff from the viz point.
janisarries seriously need a touch never used one or saw someone use them in mp.
crushing in conq with them in every single match that the enemy makes a stables. there is nothing more cost effective in the game than having a small clump of these behind your other units.
They are a support for siege
@@theequalizer5501 They wanted freedom
Jannisaries are meant to be with speed buffed Mehters. If you give them an “maa front line” and “aoe healers” on top of that. it’s over for any civ. No one beats that
Waiting for this video. Sadly janissaries arent as i expected so im avoiding using them mostly.
What I gathered from this video is that they suck and need a buff. They're an expensive ranged spearman.
I think that if we remove the 50% damage they receive from ranged units they will be allright
@@depressedespresso3928 they will still be the worst unit. They need more cav dmg. Janissary purpose is having 4-8 around a great bombard to protect those great bombards enemy knights. Knights melt down siege +jans in EVERY ladder game.
@@depressedespresso3928 its a gun powder unit and loses to maa😂
@@BuggyDClown-pc7sc Maybe more ranged + removal of the ranged debuff will be the answer. Having the range to perform 2 attacks before being hit sounds great
Excellent presentation
I think they need to raise their range by a tile or even a half* tile. IMO, the Chinese handcannons should be on equal terms for range with the janissaries with janissaries edging out the chinese with damage by 1 or 2 while retaining that siege repair. China is credited with birthing gunpowder onto the battlefield, but in game they are clearly using some simple weapon designs where as the janissaries have crafted their guns with metal barrels and are specifically trained to use them. Their reload should be improved with the elite upgrade also.
much awaited video
I watch this at 2 AM even though I don't play the game...
Did they get any buff after this video was made...?
I recently picked up the game again, so I was wondering if Janissarys are viable or considered good in any way? ☺️
While you were fighting with wood, we were destroying castles with big cannons.
We were firing guns while you were throwing wood into the air.
Now we understand that you want to make yourself look bigger here. Because you are small.
Was that a skyrim BG music? It seemed familiar to my ears, but cant remember where i heard it
Indeed, it's music from Skyrim. :)
I feel like their bonus should be expanded to all melee units, and not just cavalry. Its very strange that they counter cavalry, but the slower infantry units can still beat them rather consistently. That plus their lack of range could be fixed by a buff or by providing the Ottomans with normal hand cannoneers as well.
Oof most comments didn't age well.
Either a bunch of bronzies, aoe2 fanatics or overly patriotic turks.
Turns out putting ranged units into direct fights (weird how ingame you'll play to avoid that like the plague) doesn't give a great view of reality in the end.
Kinda spicy that units with similar stats to a crossbow (to which nearly every age 3 army defaults to for range), will do quite well if you don't let it get bumrushed. Especially if the bumrishing cav gets near insta deleted by them.
Where are the new videos? There are a lot of things that needs to be analyzed including gathering upgrades now when they are cheaper.
Hello Age of Noob, are siege crews worth a vesir point, you may get 25% more attackspeed but the units supply cost is sort of raised by 1...
This janissary is the worst janissary, that I have seen for ages. Gunpowder “destroys” armored units. Period. This useless thing can not even win against spears, horse archers, streltsy, bowman, longbowman, javelin throwers? Really? Really? It’s anti cav but loses to mangudai, knights, african cavalry? What is this anyway? Than you are wondering why people dont play aoe4. Give janissary a unit count and make them robust like hell. They were the only proffessional army of europe for a long time.
On the other hand, I'm glad they don't launch it OP and nerf it down. I'd rather have them launch it underpowered and buff them to a good spot.
Uuuuhhhh gunpowder didn't destroy armor no questions asked for hundreds of years after it was in use.
The term "bullet proof" comes from armorers literally shooting their armor with bullets to "prove" that it could protect against them.
So no, gunpowder units absolutely didn't annihilate all armor until well after the middle ages and even the rennaissance.
That said, sure, it can be re-balanced for better gameplay. But if no one plays AoE4 then why are we all here watching this video? Lol
@@Kellethorn lol I'd rather watch the video than play a crappy game, my money will stay in my pocket
The game is actually awesome lol
@Snorbo Plate armor could stop 3 musket shot and they used musket for testing.
this is a great video, but how much does it change when you add mehters, which is what the civ is supposed to use
how much does it change when you add mehters, which is what the civ is supposed to use. its like discussing HRE eco without factoring prelates, or mongols without the signal arrow or yam or stone or improved tech
Nice video. Do the same with rus streltsy to see the diffs with janissary….
why do the horse archers just stand in place?
The Janissaries are clearly weak as a single composition. However, in AOE4, the Ottomans become quite powerful during the Age IV, and one of the reasons is the strength of the Janissaries. During the Ottoman's Age IV, most units consisted of Sipahi + Janissaries + Great Bombard.
The Janissary is not a unit made for spamming.
While sipahi and MAA and others are biding their time at the front line, more than 20 Janissaries open fire from the rear and Great Bombard fire shells, crushing most civilizations' Age IV armies.
People underestimate the results of the Janissaries' battles based on only fragmentary results. This is a unit similar to the Terran Siege Tank from StarCraft 1.
A unit comprised only of Siege Tanks is easily destroyed by the efficient and mass-produced melee attack units of the Zerg or Protoss, but the core of the Terran army is a 'well-combined army', and having Vultures and Goliaths escorting Siege Tanks is ridiculous.
The Ottoman army should also play like this. I noticed a problem while watching several games played by Ottoman users for a while. They entered the Age III with too much hope for the Handcannoneer produced in the Age III, and when the economy was not stabilized, they produced only Janissaries and were trampled by MAA and knights of other civs. Janissaries should begin production in Age 3 middle time when the economy has stabilized and the base is secure.
Of course, this does not mean that the Janissary is OP.
In particular, gamers like Beasty (of course I respect his skills) are propagating that the Janissaries are a OP unit(S+), but I can't agree with that.
Janissary is just... A tier.
yeah.
The Janissaries turned the largest western church into a mosque. (Hagia Sophia)
Bad game.
If the rifle is so weak, why did they use a rifle?
The West's hypocritical and false historical view appears in this game.
In reality, 100 Janissaries easily defeat 1000 archers.
Otherwise, Istanbul would be in the hands of Europe, not the Turks.
They were coming together and getting beat up and leaving.
They were so afraid that the Turks were coming, they discovered America while escaping from the Ottoman Empire.
The Black Sea and the Mediterranean were like a Turkish lake.
i love the janissaries
I am Alevi, there's a good chance I have an ancestor who was a Janissary. It's highly upsetting seeing them being so awful in this game. There was a reason why the Janissaries were so powerful and effective that the Sultan had to use Sipahi's to betray and destroy the Janissaries. I don't get offended by stuff like this, but damn.
This is why the Sultan destroyed them. You Alevis are evil.
Soryy alevi but they are ortadox childs
@@crowrider199 Yes the Janissaries were composed of many Orthodox Christian children that were stolen and forced to convert to Islam, but Alevi people were not seen as Muslim, so they took us too. The Janissary Corps school was the Haci Bektaş Veli, an Alevi school.
Alevi means you were not only turkmen, you were on opposite side against ottomans rum-western orientation. And janissaries were never ever turkmen
@@anilkarakaya9343 Yes and no, I think you are misunderstanding me. Janissaries included Alevi-Turkmen. The Janissary corps school was that of Haci Bektaş Veli. The people were a mix of Greek Christians and Alevi because they did not consider us Muslim, it is why there are and have been many pogroms against us. Especially when the Ottoman empire betrayed the Janissaries and uses the Sipahi to do it.
Some may say Janissary is for "protect siege from cav"(?) but fact is, 1- siege kills siege 90%, not cav, 2- the HC / Streltsy unit plays a critical, life-or-death role for all civs in Imperial, and the Ottomans don't have any unit to fill this life-or-death role, 3- Mango +Jan combo is very hard to micro, and so vulnerable vs skilled player, 4- "ranged spearman" function is strcturally redundant, 5- dependence on babysitting from Mango, is recipe for a very useless, terrible unit, 6- Ottomans desperately need tanky Imperial units per population slot, not weak units wasting the pop slot, 7- Great Bombard is too fragile, dies too fast, too weak, too ineffective to be able to make a difference in combo in competitive play etc etc etc. Summary, it all makes no sense. Janissary is iconic and beloved: I DON'T believe AoE4 balance devs are acting in good faith.
why dont you believe the devs are not acting in good faith? its much more likely that they just wanted to make a cool niche unit and missed the mark a bit. people have too much emotions invested into a damn unit and its clouds judgement. honestly i think what they will do is buff the base damage a bit to make it on par with other hand cannoneers and then excel vs cav. dont think devs will change their mind too much about the niche
@@zaganim3813 What emotions. It's all rock solid argumentation there. Can read?
Haha, ottomans have tanks units in imperial, what do you mean with no tanks units per population? They have knights and maa
"the HC / Streltsy unit plays a critical, life-or-death role for all civs in Imperial" can you elaborate on this one please?
@@zaganim3813 Fully upgraded, Janissaries do practically match Hand Cannoneers. It's just that they did a strange twist in AOE4 where Janissaries are dramatically lower cost than Hand Cannoneers where in the other AOE2 and AOE3, they were higher cost.
In AOE4, a Hand Cannoneer is 240 total cost while Janissary is 160 total cost. To do an accurate cost comparison, you need to compare 2 Hand Cannoneers to 3 Janissaries. On top of that, base production times are 35 seconds for Hand Cannoneers and 24 seconds for Janissaries so you can make 3 janissaries in practically the same time frame as 2 hand cannoneers anyways, and dramatically quicker when you consider the ottoman influence reducing it to 18/15 seconds.
When you look at it that way, it makes sense why they feel weak in a 1-to-1 comparison. In fact, I think that's why Janissary Guns exist: to keep their damage almost equal to Hand Cannoneers at equal cost comparison. That +3 boost lets 3 janissaries deal 69 damage where 2 hand cannoneers would deal 70.
I do agree with the siege destroys siege thing though. The introduction of the springald just made that the norm and Janissary really isn't a good answer to that from the Ottomans. A Chinese Clocktower Springald after Siege Works can even tank a hit from the Great Bombard.
This is a so bad, aoe2 janni is one of the most powerful ranged unit in the game.
And this one dies to Spearman 11
They have to balance the unit somehow. If the Janissaries could deal with both Infantry and Cavalry, then they'd be unstoppable. :D I do agree though that I would've taken a different approach designing their place in the game.
@@AgeofNoob Well at least they shouldn't lose to Sofas then. And win much harder against Sipahis. They're cavalry after all.
@@AgeofNoob there's archers/xbow, and these units have 3.5 range. So any ranged unit should deal with them,
They should be able to wreak melee units in mass and when microed though.
For 100g a unit, they shouldn't die to Spearman, I assume spears don't cost gold like age2
@@AgeofNoob in AoE2 they have less bonus dmg against infantry too, they're mostly to deal with cavalry and siege. and they get wrecked by archers there too.
@@Stelphy876 Aoe 2 Janissaries are not anti Cav units, they are generalist allrounders with good damage to everything.
As kids in Malaysia, we're told about a great empire of the past. When Europeans were pillaging Africa, America and Asia, the Ottomans welcomed all peoples, defeated Europeans in the heart of Europe, and sent powerful navies with gifts and elite troops to defend us: the Janissaries. I can't describe my sadness to see what Age 4 devs have done to the Jans, dude. Our own family name, common here, is a tribute of affection and respect to the great Empire. You did a brilliant analytical video, I just had to comment this.
Yeah, Janisaries were also recruited via a blood tithe, so not quite the romantic picture
Yeah, they were so great that about 1/5th of the empire were actual slaves and sex slavery only got banned in the 20th century.
The Ottoman empire was somewhat tolerant compared to early modern Europe, but your "Malaysian schools" seem to be spewing pure uncritical propaganda.
dude there is a lot of historical propaganda going on there. i bet ottoman empire did a lot of great things for you country but know that there is a lot of other not so bright parts of history where "welcoming all peoples" is a lie. you know ottoman empire had a slave trade right? sure the war with european countries was a lot about religion but at its heart it was also about economy.
@@Deathskull0001 Gotta love them young boys taken away from their families to become soldiers. In a scale that an african warlord would shed a tear of envy.
@@Deathskull0001 What feudal lord in Europe didn't impose soldier levy on its subjects? Or anywhere in the world ftm? Difference is, they were paid Nothing and got No training, cannon fodder for sacrifice. Janissary was the highest paid, highest status, best training soldier / officer of the age.
So stupid how weak janissaries are. Losing to a Zhuge nu is absurd, as that weapon was considered poor for military use and just suitable for self defense of scholars and women due to the low energy of the darts. In a military setting the darts were poisoned because of how weak they are.
They just get destroyed by trash units too, when in their time period they dominated the most advanced armies of their time, like the French at Nicopolis or the cream of Europe's knights at Varna.
İ think they were win against only wilagers😢
If people is so mad at this jenissary, then they should just change them to be anti-armour and problem solve
incredible video with great content, I always keep coming back for more!!!
amazing work!!
So paying food and gold for a reasonably powerful ranged spearman? A real shame that we don't have a bulk army unit, but a specialized counter. As long as we see them fairly frequently it should still be fine.
AOE 3 Janissaries are still better though. I still think Relic did a terrible job with this game.
The jannisaries comped with buffed Mehters, aoe healers and an maa frontline shreds everything. Even HRE gets taken to the woodshed
You have to make translate for turkish language too
what the f is this even troop? %60 or higher buf needed or make it range even longer.
Janissaries being anti-cav makes tons of sense.
AND THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!!!!!!!
the damage is toooooo weak.
Help me Anakin!!
-Janissaries, probably
Would be nice to have the info without micro. as usuallly in big fights it is tough. Does noy look like the Janissary is a good units, and you are better to make spears, requires less micro.
I think they should buff their range a bit and lower that insane bonus damage they take from ranged sources. Otherwise, they are a good option to counter cavalry charges, specially to guard your siege units.
This game developer doesn't know who are the jenisseries period. Also the sipahis stronger than any other units . Also ottoman has also horse archers as well .
It might be better with Mehter but, still Janissaries are horrible! It must be like in the history, the strongest one must be. They could be the most expensive gunners yet the best must be. They should swap with russian one and swap it with terico. Terico should have bonus damage against calvary and they could be weak against others...
Can you also share the name of the songs you use in the description if possible ?
I usually love them and its bad that I cannot find em.
takes 50% more damage... there is nothing as stupid as this in the game. why? why he takes more ranged damage? honestly, these developers should turn off their brains and just make janissaries as a skin to handcannoners.
The balance team is a joke in this game
@@AzzeddineXT Considering all the civ win rates are fairly close, that doesn't seem to be the case at all.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn because nobody makes them, instead it archer mehter sipahis feudal rush
@@AzzeddineXT Makes what? I said CIV win rates, not any specific unit. However you may feel about any of the particular units in the game, the civs have been pretty well balanced overall so far.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn No AoE4 civ win rates and pick rates are very not close.
The scaling of this game really is terrible, the buildings look like cubby houses next to all the giant humans
janisary in history: i will conquer balkan for my sultan
janisary in aoe4: helmp armcher
They are meant to be with speed buffed Mehters, which turns them into a fast tankier unit.
Tbh historically you don't do equal number with gunnery, you get as many peasant as you can and give them as many guns as you can then just train them how to load and point their gun at the enemy for few days and they'll plough through anything
Great video as always! Really looking forward to an updated version on which economic upgrades that are worth getting when, now that eco upgrades are cheaper.
good video as usual, the production and editing is impecable as always. but i'm a little dissapointed (english is not my first language and this word it's too strong for what i'm trying to convey but i can't find another that fits) in the analysis part, it's a good analysis but it's have room from improvement. just throwing a unit type against each other is just a face level analysis that more often than not fail to tell the whole story, Specially when is about ranged units. i know that it's imposible to perfect analyse this kind of topic. but some feedback: show us how other similar units perform in the same test to have a point of comparison. also, when analysing ranged units vs melee units don't only show us a fight between the units but also the DPS that the ranged unit deal to the melee unit to have an idea about how they perform when having a meat shield in front.
also. some footage/test were recorded during PUP when they were bugged and being considered ranged despite not having the ranged tag? because at 06:09 you say that janissaries take two bonus damage from the Javelins thrower. and at 12:48 you can see some full hp janissaries getting two shooted by the mangonels but that doesn't happens on the live server, they take three mango shots to kill instead of two like archers and crossbows.
While you make good points in the first part of your comment, it's just a matter of time & effort spent, as well as the length of the video. For more detail, the video would include when you'd use Archers vs Crossbows vs Spear, and include critical mass of each vs each type of unit (and take into account blacksmith upgrades and different unique civ upgrades). It's impossible to cover every single scenario in the game without making the video 2 hours. Hence, while I do agree with you, players can still watch this video and get a rough idea on how much damage they deal and take from all units, and they can decide on their own how to engage after a bit of experience. Regarding the second part of your video - all of the footage in the video was filmed using the current live patch. Mangonels' RNG spread matters in whether or not they take the full damage and subsequently die.
@@AgeofNoob thanks for the answer and sorry if i sounded a pedantic. i don't know how to proper phrase myself in english and reading my coment i feel like i sound like and a**hole. just to be clear, amazing video as always, top notch aoe content, and i know that it take a lot of time an effort.
. regarding the mangonel part, there is something weird in the footage that you are showing, maybe a bug or something. but the maximun possible damage that a mangonel should deal to a janissarie per voley is 36 (they deal siege damage so it's damage shouldn't be amplified by 50% like the damage of archers, crossbows and springalds. and janissaries not having the ranged tag shouldn´t take the extra 18 bonus damage of mangonel vs ranged units) so the full hp janissaries even if they take full splash damage from both mango shots should survive with 18 hp.
No worries at all mate, no offense taken. :)
You make a good point regarding the mangonel damage actually. I'll run some tests to double-check and ask the devs if the interaction is intended. Could be a carry-over bug perhaps.
lol and i wanted to buy aoe 4 only for this unit, not anymore.
Excellent review, thank you very much for yet another great video!
You forgot to test with french knight. I think heavy lose and lose when equal number. Another UU pay to lose in this game 😂😂
Really badly designed units overall. It forces the Turks to rely on seige engines. IRL the Ottomans changed warfare, the Janissaries were used as elite shock troops and would constsntly be put in the worst situations available, i.e. a breaking center or full breach in a seige, and they would persevere against anything. These guys literally made the knight obsolete in warfare as it was a complete counter, light armor, far ranging weapon, with am emphasis on mace close to close combat they were ridiculously effective.
Jannissary is my favorite in AoE 3. It has good ranged and melee. The feature that a unit has either melee or ranged weapon in AoE 3 is neat.
So the Janissary unit is pretty terrible then really...
AoE4 Janissary = unbelievable trash. AoE4 Great Bombard = unbelievable trash. AoE4 Grand Galley = unbelievable trash. Sipahi's Fortitude = unbelievable trash. Hmmm I see a pattern? All of these are Ottoman units. All are core symbols of the civ soul and culture. I've never seen such an incredible "coincidence"! Lol
One of the devs must be an Armenian.
@@arda213 llooooooooooool
I played like 200 games with ottomans without even touching jannisary icon xD I am diamond now with happy stats. Ottomans are just fine. But DO NOT create or try janissaries or GB's..
Devs made ABSOLUTE HUUUGE mistake by designing Ottoman gunpowder units to be niche and crap like this. Idk this game left me speechless about the design.
Sipahi+Mehter+Archers+M@A with some Heavy cavalry is only way to go with ottos...
WORST UNITS IN THE GAME !
1) Great Bombards
2) Jannisaries
3) Eleps.
4) Langshedlts
You forgot the "even worst of the worst" of all AoE games: Ottoman Grand Galley
@@malbatahan801 Yea thats true. But i dont play sea maps xD
I think with 4 you mean Landsknechte? They are one of the most powerful units in the game, and every pro uses them when playing hre. Also Jans are definetily better than melee elephants
@@maxmustermann3811 yea i mean landsckenete or whatever. U are right maybe they have some way to go. But definetely jans are CRAP i dont even argue about it
Not sure if you meant landsknecht for number 4 but they're far from the top 4 worst in the game.
You see them in top-tier competitive matchups all the time.
very nice video.
One of the devs must be either from Greece or Armenia. Ottomans have no real power or strategy to surprise enemy. All UU' s are basically BS. Huge failure.
aoe4 killed janissary rip
So they suck?
they look weak, they were stronger in AGE OF EMPIRES 3, had the same melee strength as halberds
soo....useless?
Stupid game mechanics. Gun loses to arrow lol
Love your videos! Keep it up
How is archer defeating jannisary in equal numbers? Doesn't Janissaries have better stats even when you amplify archer damage by %50?
Yes, and they still lose. Remember that the Janissaries' range are also very low, so they lose one or two before they can even begin engaging.
@@AgeofNoob Oh I see. Thank you for explaining and, as always, thank you for top notch content.
Absurt
they ruined ottomans in game completely let alone janissaries hope they fix it
Hi Age of Noob! is it possible for you to look deeper into units fighting and espiecialy their death animations? Drongo lately has shown closer a death animation of two spearmen killing each other and it looked amaizing.
Actually, I might give this a shot. Thanks for the suggestion.
@@AgeofNoob make sure to add Dramatic sad music for the prolonged death scenes!
In summary devs made janissaries as support units for siege units....they heal siege and kills cavs attacking those siege units.....i think devs made jans to protect great bombards....btw the units that really suck vs janissaries are elephants looool....always those poor elephants.....i hope devs give elephant an area damage for tusks or tremple.....save elephants pls
devs really hate the zoo guys
save the elephants
Ottoman minaret used 'Pencil' minaret, different from Persian-Indian/Dehli-Mughal and Arabian-Egyptian style minaret, the dome of Ottoman similar to Byzantine/Eastern Roman style. while in Persia/Iran, India, Central Asia and Iraq used Onion Dome styles.
Janissaries are useless. I dont know which idiot came up with the idea but when i play ottoman i never do Janissaries.
Any chance of seeing these comparisons with the drummer boys and talent upgrade? 15% attack seed and movement is no joke.
Drummer boys analysis will be a standalone video, so it'll be covered then. :)
A little tip: you can clump and shorten the explanation with the match-ups. Just explain similar results at once, no need to go through every single unit. It became kinda repetitive. Nice video though!
Wait a minute! Moustaches ARE seroius business!! Thanks for the video! I don't know what I was expecting from the Janissaries other than being more 'ard than your video depicts. I know that placing them in age 3 means they can't be powerful in all categories, but the janissaries seemingly got pwned more often than not. Plant them with other parts of your military then and have them defend(against cav) and mend artilllery as opposed to being a super unit on it's own.
thanks for your testing.
They are very weak the janissary of AOE3 were better they were feared and not op
AOE3's janissaries were very good, even in close combat they showed solid skill and defeated their enemies, but this is unlikely in AOE4 and they don't even have swords
@@guardsmensquad
I agree they were feared for me they were the best infantry in the game
Pretty useless and pricey just like the game
lol get rekt its the best rts in years for a lot of us.
@@zaganim3813 get AOE2 DE
How does the damage interaction work with mangonel?
Janissairy are Light Gunpowder Infantry that mean they don't take hte bonus damage from the mangonel.
But they take 50% more damage from ranged source does this apply to mangonel?
They removed extra damage from mangonel
Mangonel has "siege" damage which is different than "ranged" damage.
They are better against mangonels than archers, they don’t take any bonus damage
Great video! I've been playing the Ottomans on ranked, and something I think is underappreciated when testing unit matchups like this is how well the janissary is positioned in the evolving game state of a typical match. Ottomans are currently known for big feudal archer masses with multiple archery ranges built in feudal age. This means that when you get to castle age, you A) already have the ranges you need to start massing janissaries, B) already have a ranged mass that you can just start mixing your janissaries into, and C) will have likely forced your opponent into making cavalry to counter your archers, which you can then counter with janissaries. So I've found that an early castle age switch into janissaries is a really good tactic (except against English lol longbows). Of course, whether janissaries continue to be strong in castle age depends on what the opponent techs into, but they definitely have a stage of the game where they consistently feel powerful imo
You're describing a super situational (= TERRIBLE) core unique unit
@@ilansobel1631 Dude this is getting old now. Move on
@@CloudCuckooCountry Truth never gets old. I'm correct, and proven again. You move on
@@ilansobel1631 why must the unique unit be spammable? this is like how people play rts when they are a kid. like in starcraft 1 when you fight the AI and build 30 battlecruisers just because its cool.
Hey age of noob! Really great and informative video! The janissary is indeed a very complex unit, two key questions that are left in my mind after watching this video are
1) how do janissaries do vs cavalry compared to the traditional cav counter, the spearman if compared 1 to 1 ?
And also
2) how do the jannisarries do compared to the crossbowmen when it comes to units like the knight and sofa ??
I understand probably mixing them with a spear frontline is ideal vs Knights and sofas, as their ranged attack can be very beneficial making them very efficient that way, but from a raw comparison standpoint I want to know what i am getting out of the trade investing my resources into one or the other yk! Thanks again for always producing such amazing content ! (I thought these questions would be addressed like in your MaA vs Landsknecht video ! )
wow they suck.
This analysis goes pretty deep but there are a few key asterisks:
-You need to actually micro the jans to beat basic spearmen - and even then you lose to basic maa which everyone has
-Vs other gunpowder units jans dont scale as hard with numbers - e.g. 30 hc's can take out 45 jans, but as we saw smaller numbers favor the jans. At a critical mass, jans DO NOT counter hcs of any kind. In smaller numbers hc' can also kite jans like most ranged infantry.
-Camel archers do not cost gold. Ottomans can get free units, but think very carefully about messing with a food heavy, trash unit back by abba eco.
-CA's might struggle (or might not) but horse archers and even tower eles can beat jans in even res if allowed to kite. Most ranged cav outrange jans with the exception of mangudai (that apparently just beat them) and have the speed to keep distance. It takes ranged cav staying in 3.5 tiles for jans to win. In lower numbers, expect kiting, in higher numbers (even pop scenario) stay away from CA's and Mangudai.
-Just make ribauldequins instead.
Amazing review indeed, many thanks! What is the title of the tune played at the 'Covering their Weaknesses' part btw?
Yelkenler Biçilecek
Nice!!!