Movies That Wrecked Directors' Careers
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- All it takes is one strike to derail your career in Hollywood, and it can be a long, arduous process to get back in the game. That was the case for Damien Chazelle, M. Night Shyamalan, Gore Verbinski, James Mangold, and countless others. One misstep was all it took and some of them were out of work for years, decades, or their whole lives.
In this video essay, I want to take a look at Movie Jail (or Director Jail, if you prefer), specifically what it is and how one lands there, those that have landed there and how they got out, and how Hollywood can change to ensure it's less of a recurring thing.
00:00 Intro
00:30 The Curious Case of Damien Chazelle
03:58 How & Why Movie Jail Happens
11:29 Other Directors in Movie Jail
21:10 Finding a Happy Medium
#damienchazelle #mnightshyamalan #entertainment #films #movies #babylon #lalaland #whiplash #avatar #jamescameron - บันเทิง
I always found it kind of ridiculous that a director is expected to make hit after hit all in a row with no mistakes at all. It's not realistic.
Kinda, but also when you are running a production with tens of millions or even hundreds of millions in backing, you are expected to deliver. Athletes have a bad week and people want their head, a whole season and the owners are looking at other options. Some directors seem to be immune to this and continue to make bomb after bomb though.
They become the scapegoat although at every stage there is a studio exc..but then they wipe their hands off and run away.
Tarantino, Nolan, and Scorsese beg to differ.
well he chose to make a super expensive film - he knew what he was getting into.
@@deusexmachina9776 Also except The drummer movie, I havent really liked Damien’s films!
The fact that Zack Snyder still has an active career despite the fact he hasn't made a profitable and well received movie since 300 is astonishing.
It's ridiculous how certain figures in Hollywood (not just directors) get kicked to the curb with one misstep, or worse yet, don't even get opportunities in the first place, while others keep inexplicably finding work.
And he’s made Rebel Moon, and still thinks he’s the shit. He needs someone to palm him in the face and remind him he’s a director, not a writer
Someone tweeted about this, and Greg Silverman, former president of WB actually tweeted back and clarified “Not true. We lost some money on GAHOOLE and a fair amount on SUCKERPUNCH. The rest of his films at WB were very profitable.
Very.”
He never delivered the insane amount of money Marvel produced in it's golden age, but most of his films have been profitable. Furthermore, he has a legion of fans that will watch anything he makes, so a certain base level of profit is almost guaranteed with his films as long as he keeps budgets under control.
@@ThaninViriyaki Yeah, I heard about it. And just like anyone with a working brain, find it very strange how the guy didn't provide any evidence for what he said.
Yet there is plenty of evidence to prove him wrong.
The biggest problem with Babylon, was its marketing along with its name. All they were showing in trailers were people dancing, drinking, having sex and doing drugs.
.
There was no interesting dialogue or premise of what the movie was really about in its marketing. So, no one showed up.
Agreed. The transition from silent films to sound is a very interesting era for me, but I never knew Babylon was about that, so I ignored it for a long time.
@@TomCruz54321
I loved Babylon, but have no idea why they thought it would be a mass market crowd pleaser.
I hope Damien Chazelle makes another low budget movie. Whiplash proved he can do a lot with a little.
I believe in Damien Chazelle.
In Chazelle We Trust
Tis a shame cause Babylon is my favorite project he’s done, I immediately went to the theater the same day I found out about it.
Babylon is one of the best. If it was directed by Tarantino, it would get acceptance it deserved. People don’t want Chazele to be experimental.
Babylon sucks
The growing appreciation of Babylon inside me is getting stronger day by day
It's way too soon to say either way with Damien Chazelle or James Mangold. But I'm shocked no one here has mentioned Tom Hooper with Cats. Guy won an Oscar for directing and hasn't even been heard of since Cats.
James Mangold has already a Swamp Thing movie lined up for DC, if Gunn/Safran get DC Studios in a good place I'd say a Mangold directed Swamp Thing is easy money after what he did for Wolverine.
He was a director and producer on the HBO His Dark Materials series.
@@LBAW Pretty sure he worked on that before Cats came out?
@@LostFanaticBenLinus Possibly. Looking it up, they both came out at the end of 2019, so it’s possible. At most, he was working on them at the same time.
Fincher should've won that oscar. He towers over Hooper as a director.
All of Kubrick’s movies made studios money, that’s why studios gave him what ever he wanted . . Ridley Scott has a much more erratic box office record but when he hit big, it was huge.
Yup, also why Kubrick never went to movie jail. I suppose part of it was a strong trust in him from Warner Bros., which not a lot of directors get. Kubrick could get his budget + time + control because he was able to successfully deliver solid movies that, in addition to being good, also didn't lose money. Other director's were bigger, but WB wanted to be in the Stanley Kubrick business.
Scott is more of a working mans director than Kubrick. Part of it always feels like Scott is trying to catch up on movies he wasn't able to make because he got started directing at 40ish as opposed to in his 20s or 30s. But by dint of having so many movies to make, it stands to reason some of them might be missteps (majorly in the case of Napoleon, but the man loves his historical epics).
I don't know how well the Shining did, but it was bombed by critics back then. Clockwork Orange the same.
@@Syntopikonwell outside of this superhero movie era Warner was one of the most approachable for many directors simply for their legacy. Even Snyder was given so much money for Watchmen at the time to the point you have an animated film and a whole mockumentary on the first Nite Owl that is 20 minutes long. Clint Eastwood is another who yes has had a series of flops in recent years, still was allowed to make films with Warner. In fact Clint had stayed loyal with WB since his first directorial work. It’s also a reason why I like a group like Sony Pictures Classics where their films carry actual weight of directors and their authorship onto their films. I unfortunately have to root for the dumb major movies Sony makes just to keep SPC alive.
Not true. 2001was bad enough that he had to do Clockwork Orange to prove that he could make a movie cheap. And he only made The Shnng becuse he needed a hit after Barry Lyndon. Most Kubrick movies where not appreciated on release and only got credit about 10 years alter.
@@AgentLemmon The Shining made 47m on a 13m budget, so it more than broke even. Clockwork Orange was even better, grossed 114m on a budget of just 1.3m
Babylon was released in a time where counter programming doesn’t exist. Babylon should’ve done moderately well (though the high budget would always be an issue) as the adult drama placed against the general audience big blockbuster, but the previous Christmas had a similar situation with West Side Story, Licorice Pizza, and Nightmare Alley all being major flops against Spider-Man. The barbenheimer meme was so large that we had an exception, but otherwise it’s been hard for non IP blockbusters to compete against the tent poles in the current times.
Especially when the tentpoles cast such an overwhelming shadow, as Avatar: The Way of Water did. Both were 3+ hour films, but in order to sell that to a lot of people, they need to buy the fact that the director can deliver 3+ hour worth of solid content.
@@Syntopikon and the major studios get every theater and showing booked too. Spider-Man and Avatar both played on most screens in any multiplex in all kinds of different formats. Tom Cruise had this exact problem when Paramount set a hard date for M:I7 right before with the double whammy of Barbenheimer, thus the movie got reduced to barely any screens only a week in. And that was for a $300m film too. Imagine what a 50m goes through in that scenario
I actually loved Babylon. Like legitimately loved it. Lol
I thought the film was interesting if you’re interested in the change of silent Hollywood to films with sound. The history of the silent era & its end.
@@SyntopikonI wish James Cameron would do something else. He’s very talented but some people, including myself, are bored of avatar by now.but I guess he’s helping cinemas in a way. Random kinda 😅
studios putting a director in movie jail when they were the ones who chose to release a film during a GLOBAL PANDEMIC is absolutely insane.
May Denis Villeneuve have all the time and money he needs. May his audience have the intelligence to grant him the successes he deserves.
Yup. He's delivered consistently good + successful movies. Dune 1 would've done better had it not been for things being up in the air thanks to the pandemic. But he's one of the few directors I can think of that has delivered successful original movies like Prisoners, Sicario, and Arrival.
You just called all the non fans of Villeneuve's idiots. As a non fan, I have to say that Villeneuve tries to imitate Tarkovsky and Kubrick, but fails due to the simple fact that he doesnt seem to understand what made their movies great. Be it Stalker or 2001, they were all engaging in one way or another. Incendies and Arrival were his best works, because there was no big need for exposition and when needed Villeneuve stayed true to himself and didnt have to reach (the sequence about Heptapods was a nod to his early career as a documentary filmmaker and was both necessary and well balanced, given the subject matter). Arrival really won because of Villeneuve's brooding and contemplative style, not in spite of it.
Dune movies, on the other hand, required exposition dump, required character engaging scenes, but they were all equally distant and sterile, so non readers missed so much and book readers only had nods and references to much important stuff.
So, I think, Villeneuve doesnt respect characters, doesnt respect dialogues, doesnt respect traditional narrative structure, which doesnt necessarily have to be a bad thing, but he should choose projects wisely, he is very limited, relying too much on set pieces to carry emotional engagement, reminiscient of "theme park movies" which do have dialogues, but they, just like Villeneuve's movies, exist as a prelude to the real meat of the movies - set pieces, or action pieces, if you will.
@@Syntopikonhow come blade runner 2049 didn't get him in movie jail? 👀
@@CATDHDwaaaah
@@dmen0563 ok, your response was pretty funny😅. You win
people seem to forget it but Akira Kurosawa was in director jail in Japan in the mid to late 70's after Dodeskaden and quitting/fired from Tora Tora Tora. He was only able to get KAGEMUSHA made because Coppola, Lucas, Spielberg came to the rescue.
Thank God they did. His next after Kagemusha, RAN, is one of the best films ever made.
@@trevorwhiteboy2649 and now Coppola who is around the age that Kurosawa was when he made RAN has his new dream project movie out.
It's insane how much money La La Land made for an old fashioned musical.
I think that one caught everyone by surprise. I think most assumed musical's were a bygone genre (in terms of box office performance). Now, it seems as though we're getting more musicals BUT they're not being marketed as such.
"It's insane how much money Joker made for a character study movie about mentally ill person in the 70s."
And one with such sloppy choreography.
Almost as if what audiences want is a fantastic crowd-pleasing movie which La La Land was.
@@CATDHD Joker is well known character of DC though. Truly original films are harder to greenlight
Francis Ford Coppola is another big director who was put in movie jail for One from the Heart
he should stay in movie jail. scummy ass human protecting a convicted pedo
🚫
Coppola made his own studio so he can make his movies without all this BS.
should’ve staying in movie jail. mf defended a convicted chomo
@@numberjuan469 is that English?
The fuck is a chomo?
Babylon is still a masterpiece to me. 🎬
So underrated movie
To me it’s absolute trash.
nah, it sucks
🤮‼
3 hours of Hollywood sucking its own --.
if youre gonna make a 3 hour long movie you gotta bring back the early 1900s practice of INTERMISSIONS, some of us gotta pee and would rather watch that stuff at home so we can pause
Hollywood is a dark place man, if a struggling director refuses to take the studio's shitty project then that director is banned to ever work in the industry. Same goes for the actors and the actresses. A proper puppet technique.
I think the older model of "one for me, one for you" worked well. That way, the studios were happy that a director made a hit for them and a director was happy that the studio funded their passion project (which could be a hit, too).
@@Syntopikon Oh yea, but then again there's a reason why "Greed" is one of the deadliest sins.
No one has a divine right to make movies: unless they pony up the dough themselves.
Feel free to be a bartender, doctor, lawyer or construction worker: plenty of opportunities for those.
Actors are given far more chances. The only way to ruin your career as an actor is with sexual assault allegations or saying something offensive on the internet
@@goat9295 oh yeah, remember what happened to Mel Gibson?
Damien Chazelle isn’t even in movie jail. He has a new movie at Paramount slated for next year. Budget is smaller, but he is still working with the same studio
I think studio will control his movie from now on.
Movie probation then
directors careers dont get 'wrecked' by one movie. I've seen bad movies from Speilberg, Scorsese, Hitchcok, Coppolla, Welles, Eastwood, Allen, Polanski, Leone, Scott...
Shyamalan is a risk taker, loves what he does, not for everyone but great choices from him. His choice to put his house on mortgage could have been a disaster but it paid of in the long run.
It's pretty admirable. A true entrepreneur. Most of the movies since The Visit were self-funded, and he does his best work with small, weird movies as opposed to blockbusters.
sure but overall he’s not that great a filmmaker. if the majority of what you are making even if you are taking risks if they are failing than that’s not a good sign
@@paulelroy6650 I don't know your understanding of "Great filmmaking". i believe engagement with the story and caring about the characters as great filmmaking techniques/storytelling, and most of his films achieve this, so yes to me he is a great filmmaker. Failing financially does not equal bad film, just bad luck.
Great Essay - I would say that Peter Jackson got to this point with King Kong (which is utter indulgence) to the point that his next film The Lovely Bones has a $95M take on a 65M budget. Hell...even Christopher Nolan did Tenet and was certainly was more constrained on budget for Oppenheimer. The fact is directors (creatives) need some constraints to make great art. After 1941 Spielberg made Raiders....need I say more!
Agreed that some directors need constraints to make great art. I think the canonical example is Jaws and Aliens - the shark sometimes wouldn't work and the Alien would look like a guy in a suit, so they kept the shark off-screen and the Alien shrouded in darkness: two constraints that helped elevate those movies. Sometimes, a constrained budget just means you need to think outside the box, which can make for a great movie.
Chazelle is a generational talent. He’s not going away anytime soon.
He’s fine I honestly think he’s talented. I liked whiplash and la la land but neither stay with me years later. Moonlight did. Women talking does prisoners. Whiplash is well written but to me the majority of its success rest on JK Simmons. He’s gonna make anything great. Also gosling made la la land.
@@karenwilliams777cap
Surely Alex Cox is the best example of a director in movie jail. Walker was so controversial it wrecked his career completely
It also depends on how much you want a Hollywood career. I dont see Cox as the type who went around LA kissing ass and begging for a second chance after Walker.
@@unkopower7899 Firstly that and secondly Cox is a respected cult figure one of the directors who made your favorite directors' favorite movies type of guys.
The story of Heaven's Gate is more telling than that. UA took outside money on the production, not unusual, but they took part in dealing with Cimino, which meant he was directly funded by first-time producers from completely outside the industry. As filming went along, spending more and more, the newbies stepped in and demanded to know where all the money was going. Cimino showed them a "sizzle reel" filled with beautiful shots that were put together with painstaking detail, so much detail that he described the clothing on extras being handmade and period correct for the time. This looked and sounded amazing to the producers, so they just let him go. They didn't get dailies, and they didn't ask questions after that, assuming he would blow the market away with his passion project. UA had little to do with the actual production.
Amateurs.
Yeah, Cimino went crazy with the money, and everyone got what was coming to them. EVERY movie needs cost controls. Dealing with them effectively is half the creativity of the profession. On that subject, RIP Roger Corman, we need him now more than ever. There's no GOOD reason we shouldn't have an army of low-budget auteurs slamming together original films for $250k all over the streaming services.
Couldn't get past the elephant shitting and the guy getting pissed on within the first 10 minutes of Babylon. First Man is so underrated.
First Man was a solid movie. Definitely deserved its VFX Oscar.
Just as I predicted in my review: pschadenberg.blogspot.com/2023/01/babylon-2022.html
I stopped watching right after that. Sickening. What people loved about it baffles me. That’s not art.
@@StellaAdler_"I stopped watching it 10 mins in" "What people loved about it baffles me, that's not art".... Yeeeah u didn't watch the movie, u clown, how would u know?
@@Syntopikon maybe *First Man* would have made more money if he didn't delete the American flag raising on the Moon. When people heard that, it turned a lot of people off. Like it or not, the Apollo program was done for national pride and achievement. To eject the very point of _why_ we went was a major disservice. I still really like the movie, I just wish that he didn't pander to the Left and didn't feel ashamed about making a movie about American Exceptionalism.
Babylon is a Masterpiece..🔥
Singer didn't direct Dark Phoenix, it was Simon Kinberg
A major mistake that could've been easily avoided with minimum knowledge/research (i.e. google) making the entire video embarassing.
@@YY-mi9rfthank you. ridiculous
I bailed after 30 seconds. This guy’s dictation is atrocious. I’m not surprised there’s factual errors in it. It sounds like this guy is reading about a subject he has no interest and/or knowledge in, off a teleprompter. It’s a shame because this could be an interesting topic to make a video about, preferably by someone who actually cares about the subject they’re talking about instead of some hack trying to get Ad views. There’s way too much of this shit going down on TH-cam these days and I’m pretty sick of it. Either way, I’d rather hear nails on a chalkboard as opposed to this voice for another 30 seconds. You guys are braver than me.
@@7Jstamper 💯💤💤💤
Thank god there’s such a thing as independent films.
I never knew that M. Night Shamamalan took out a loan against his house just to make The Visit and another loan to make Split. That’s some hardcore dedication that paid off. He basically flexed on everyone saying that he’s still got it. Not every film he makes will be a hit, but I’m always eager to see whatever he’s cookin. M. Night or BUST!
Damien Chazelle's career is not wrecked lol. He's already got another in the movie in the works and signed a deal with Paramount post-Babylon. Every great director misses once in a while.
If there's a "movie jail", then there's a "Get free out of jail" card around because there's also too many writer directors making money despite making sh1t...
"Hey, I resemble that remark!"- Zack Snyder
It fucks me off because we're in a period where studios blame audiences for not seeing their movies, yet they either start advertising these things like a month before they come up; 2 years before we'll even see anything else on it, or just not at all.
And I'm getting sick and tired of being blamed for something flopping, when it's marketing is so piss poor.
Yeah, it seems like there's always a blitz at the announcement and then in the last couple months before release, but I'm surprised they don't have more of a drip marketing campaign for movies. Maybe it's because it won't work, but I dunno why they don't start releasing behind the scenes footage that doesn't give stuff away in the mid-range lead up. I'd find that more interesting than another perfunctory actor interview.
Paul Schrader is a good example of a guy who's been to movie jail multiple times, but always managed to stay up directing low budget stuff and come back with a banger after a while.
Richard Kelly is one very sad example. Southland Tales was an ahead-of-the-time masterpiece that was sadly misunderstood and messed up theatrically. I hope with the recent resurgence of Southland Tales and its growing cult status he will get another chance - he hasn't done anything since The Box.
One person who was in movie jail for around a decade, which was absolutely criminal, was David Cronenberg - the fact that one of the greatest and most influential directors of all time couldn't manage to get a movie made for almost a decade, had multiple projects cancelled, and had to resort to writing a book and playing supporting characters in TV shows in order to get some money for Crimes of the Future...
Paul Schrader strikes me as something of a difficult case in that I'm not sure that he's in, or ever was, in movie jail, insomuch as he just didn't want to be a big part of the system. Directors like Greta Gerwig, Damien Chazelle, and M. Night strike me as ambitious individuals that want/wanted to play with the biggest canvas available. But I never got that feeling from Schrader. He always struck me as someone who preferred to do smaller films but with creative control - and didn't want to cede any of the latter.
As someone who enjoyed Donnie Darko, I feel the same about Richard Kelly and hope he's able to make a comeback. Unfortunately, he's been out for so long that each passing year might be a strike against him. But, then again, Hollywood loves nothing more than a prodigy making a comeback. Kelly was like 25/26 when he did Donnie Darko and it's been almost that many years since the movie came out.
Cronenberg has always struck as one of those directors that one should be happy to fund because he creates interesting work. It's kind of like Guillermo del Toro or Paul Thomas Anderson in that regard. Will their movies make money? It'd be nice if they did. But will they craft something great that, if nothing else, will bring your studio some recognition, either awards or a cult-like following? That's a safe bet.
Chazzelle will be fine he has stuff lined up.
Also babylon is underrated
Robert Townsend is another great example. Hollywood shuffle was a movie made for 40 to 60K. To be more specific he maxed out his credit cards. The return on the movie was 5 million dollars… that’s insane.
Next thing you know he’s making a big budget movie called meteor man with pretty much every black celebrity except Denzel, Washington and Wesley Snipes .
The film cost 20 million to make and it’s returned was a poultry eight Million. He never truly had a shot to make a big budget film again.
That's a solid point. I know a lot of directors have described having a small budget as something of a forcing function for creativity: you lack the money, so you MUST get creative (in writing, acting, directing, or even cutting corners [safely]). Kevin Smith seemed to be the same way - Clerks was great but as his budgets got bigger, movie quality suffered.
You are absolutely right! Smith’s films definitely suffered after Clerks.
No it’s not. Because he didn’t go from Hollywood Shuffle to Meteor Man.
He directed Eddie Murphy’s Raw. Then The 5 Heartbeats.
And there was no jail for him. He was back directing by 97. 4 years after MM.
And, Hollywood doesn’t put you in jail while allowing you to create and star in your own TV show, The Parent ‘Hood as well as Townsend TV.
I’m talking about big budget films… yes, I know about raw I own it. I’m not gonna count concert films as the same.
Also, I said in my original comment “ the next thing you know” I never said he immediately moved to make a $20 million film.
He ran out of money on the five heartbeats… and it was a struggle for him.
We’re talking about why opportunities are taken away after let’s say a 20 million film flops and you’re not given an opportunity to create a big budget film again.
TV before streaming was pretty much jail time for actors, writers, and directors who were cast out by holly wood Studios. Netflix changed the game .
@@keithwalker3989The next thing LITERALLY means the next thing. Lol
20 million ain’t a big budget movie. And he was given opportunities.
Townsend was never in jail. He just isn’t a good/great director.
Stop digging.
I wonder if when a movie is ruined by studio interference, the executives/vps responsible are also put in 'executive jail' just like a director would. It seems unfair that when a director fails is personally crucified, but when a studio fails, nobody really seems to be held accountable. Convenient double standard that results in the same incompetent studio people being involved and running into the ground dozens of projects behind the scenes and then blaming the contractors, and now even the audience. They are really running out of excuses tho at this point.
I'm surprised that you didn't mention David Robert Mitchell, he directed It Follows and the follow up Under The Silver Lake was basically buried by A24 until it was begrudgingly released on streaming. Such a good movie that sadly wasn't given a proper run by the distributor.
Babylon was such a bizare experience. It starts with an elephant shiting himself and I was like "what the actual fuck is this?" and for a while it wasn't doing much for me, but then we get to the scene where Nellie is shooting her first talkie scene and I was blown away, and after that the film kept getting crazier but also more beautiful and at the end, while almost bawling my eyes off, I was like "ok, this is fucking amazing". One of my favourites from that year. It was like Singing In the Rain meets The Artist (both films I love) but on cocaine
James Mangold is already on his way directing his next movie A Complete Unknown about musician and singer Bob Dylan. Despite the poor box office performance of Dial of Destiny (which I did like then most people), Mangold has proven himself on and off that he can make studio movies in various genres and budgets to both commercial and critical success. One of the reasons he managed to move from Dial of Destiny to A Complete Unknown is because he was already attached to make the latter around the same time he was asked to do Dial of Destiny. So he was always going to jump to A Complete Unknown no matter what, and he’s currently filming it right now. However, I do think it’s very obvious that budget for A Complete Unknown is not anyway near the 250 to 300 plus million dollar range 😂.
He seems to be attached to Swamp Thing for DC Studios too, so he might get a comeback on the big budget stuff.
JJ Abrams seems to be in movie jail as well post ROS.
I mean JJ is like a roach, and I love him. He finnessed WB out of millions for a project that never happened 😂
With no possibility of parole hopefully
@@Juan-tm8fk yep, he got a nice little retirement package out of them 😅👏🏾
Good.
If only the fact that the movies are bad would be a reason for movie jail, then Michael Bay and Zach Snyder wouldn't have had a career in a long time. But since RoS made a lot of money, he's more like in a personal exile than movie jail.
Director Martin Brest came off the spectacular "Meet Joe Black" with "Gili." He never worked again.
M. Night Shyamalan is an interesting one: Sitxh Sense was OUTSTANDING and he never made another movie that impacted culture and movieland like this one. He definetly disappointed every Last Airbender-Fan on the planet but he managed to make DECENT movies. Im not EXCITED about his films but im always interested. The Happening, The Visit, Split, Old and Knock at the Cabin are decent entertaining movies. I was surprised how much his last movies entertained me even though they are on some levels even "dumb". I will definetly see his upcoming movie. Not at the cinema but i will likely rent it on Amazon for 4.99$ when its available for rent. Its cheaper than the cinema but enough excitement to pay for it and not to wait for another year until its somewhere for free on any streaming service. My point, he is NOT a very great director of stardom but he is enough to consider for simple entertainment for a few hours.
Okay if you directed whiplash I think you should get a one bad movie free pass
Easy to say that when it's not you losing millions of dollars.
I really tried to like Babylon, but it felt like overflowing visual bloat with a bunch of pretty pictures, and the story was hugely boring around the cast. I understand that the narrative style was almost like the rhythm of a musical, but despite its massive visual style, it felt really hollow. But maybe I'm alone in my opinion.
You’re not alone. The Day of the Locust is way better.
Also there was nothing really new in what it was trying to say or do.
-The transition from silent movies to talkies and the downfall of a silent era star was just covered in The Artist.
-The over the top debauchery was seen in The Wolf of Wall Street.
-The whole Tobey Maguire sequence was almost entirely a carbon copy of the Alfred Molina scene in Boogie Nights.
-And then there was the “history of film” highlight reel at the end that made me more queasy than the elephant diarrhea seen at the beginning of the movie 😂 🤢
Hopefully Chazelle can learn from this and bounce back because Whiplash, La La Land and First Man are all great and he’s got too much talent to disappear entirely
Here's my review of it. pschadenberg.blogspot.com/2023/01/babylon-2022.html
I agree, I thought the movie boring, over the top without substance, and the end was trying to be pretty and dramatic, but it was in fact too long and also boring. And Margot Robbie is playing Harley Queen all over again, she has this character type at least 4 times in her career, it is exhausting.
@@isaacs3822 Carbon copy of the Alfred Molina scene in Boogie Nights? I'm sorry, but, did we see the same scene? While it is tonally very similar, the things that actually happened in the scene and how it unfolded are all completely different. It is not at all a copy of the other scene, even if it was definitely inspired by that scene.
Babylon being his downfall is just so ironic and poetic lol
Babylon want his fault.
This is a superbly put together video, i look forward to seeing more of what you produce.
I appreciate it!
👆🏳🌈
I love Babylon than most of the director's movies so no idea why it's so hated.
Carl Rinsch, director of 47 Ronin has also been in film jail since. The film cost 175 million and bombed at the box office.
I recall everyone thinking 47 Ronin was another Dinero film, and avoiding it.
It should be illegal to make films stealing any same or similar title.
i feel like Damien accelerated too fast and studios gave him giant budgets. i feel like he has another great movie with A24 or a simpler low budget musical
I think part of it is also, to a certain extent, ego. Chad Stahelski, who directed each John Wick movie, got roughly the same increases as Chazelle over the same period - $20M to $40M to $75M to $80M for each of the John Wick movies respectively. But Stahelski kept them very tight. He indulged himself with the fights - where it mattered - but kept things going along.
About as comprehensive as one could get describing the modern state of Hollywood. Great vid!
Bryan Singer was not involved with Dark Phoenix. He was fired from Bohemian Rhapsody with roughly 3 weeks left of production and hasn't directed a new film since. Bohemian Rhapsody, I should add, made over $900 million on a roughly $50 million budget, while also winning the Golden Globe for Best Drama and 4 of the 5 Oscars it was nominated for.
I should also mention that Dark Phoenix was held back by BOTH Fox during and Disney after their merger and the last 40 minutes of the movie were completely scrapped, re-written and re-filmed so that elements originally intended for the film could be directed toward other MCU properties. Disney brought in a ghost crew to finish it up, as many of the people that started working on the film were let go when Disney took over. It was originally meant to be a two-part film, but Disney ultimately had it sent off to die so they could integrate the X-Men brand back into their mainstream Marvel media.
I'd argue Simon Kinberg wasn't going to cook something good with Dark Phoenix anyways, whenever there's a Blade: Trinity scenario going on with a production you just know there's a shit show coming.
Brian Singer was not put in Movie Jail for making any bombs. He was put in Movie Jail because he likes to diddle kids.
Kinberg has the ability to do good work, but it seems he needs to be steered in the right direction rather than taking the wheel himself. Regardless of the man's personal life, both Days of Future Past and (to a lesser extent) Apocalypse were far better films than The Last Stand and Dark Phoenix thanks to Bryan Singer driving his own vision. Then enter Brett Ratner, who was basically the "camera-for-hire" on the third movie, but letting Kinberg take on a $200 million production of that magnitude as his directorial debut was asking for trouble. Along with David Goyer doing double duty on Blade Trinity, Frank Miller writing and directing The Spirit is another good example of what not to do helming your first big movie.
Shyamalan couldn’t have gotten “back on top with *The Happening*.” That 90-minute environmental PSA was a trainwreck
Correction: Dark Phoenix was directed by Simon Kinberg, not Bryan Singer.
The saddest part of this is that Damien Chazelle's Babylon is one of the best films I've ever seen in this century. I still believe that he will survive through movie jail fairly easily.
The thing that's lowkey upsetting is Babylon was a really good movie and maybe if the marketing wasn't so bad and it was released earlier in the year (or even the next year) it could've been a humongous box office success and another Oscar success but I think the main thing that brought Babylon down was the god awful marketing. Babylon deserved better!
Reminds me of Ryan O’Neal character in Irreconcilable Differences. Makes one hit, then his Gone With the Wind musical goes kaput.
I am anticipating the first A.i. directed film. Most of the audience do not appreciate good cinema, they just want something which is mildly entertaining.
Subbed! Great content, analysis and uour final points are so well said.
Guy Ritchie was another director that went into movie Jail and came back again
I don't think he ever was in movie jail.
He was given some old IPs to revive which no one thought would be that successful to begin with. That's why no one really blamed him. Plus all of those movies were critical success which is why he made a comeback easily.
@@gabbar51nghAfter Snatch he made this really strange movie with Madonna, that flopped. He got one more chance after that, which then flopped too. He slowly had to climb his way back until he got to Rock’n’Rolla and now he’s up-and-going again
Love the videos, man. Keep it up!!!
Thanks! And will do!
Heaven's Gate and Year of the Dragon had money issues but are legitimately great movies
There are two books written and many documentaries made in regard to the making of Heaven's Gate.
This was well explained. You had my distracted mind unusually focused lol thanks
As someone who's mind is also distracted far too often, I'm happy to help.
Great video! Thanks!
Andrew Dominik deserves a comeback
It's wild there was a 10 gap between Killing Them Softly and Blonde, especially considering how KTS is so good.
Fantastic video man! 🙌
I think with musicals there is a fine line between how much singing is just right and too much. Wonka got it just right, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Great video. Just a little advice: consider improving the audio, cause I could barely make out what you said sometimes.
The advertising for Babylon was misleading. It's a good movie, but it's not for everybody. Whiplash and La La Land set the bar too high
Your narration-style is an interesting choice.
Tiger Woods, right?
This is a very intelligent and well produced video. I would suggest that more than a director’s hits in defining their ability is their failures. Hits are usually the result of many contributions, not just the directors’s. Failures usually reveal the director’s inabilities. Babylon was so horrifically bad that I think it indicates Chazelle’s serious limitations. AI imagery will end the myth of the auteur theory. It will prove that the most important element of any film is the screenplay. However, most successful films today are adaptations of novels, comic books, video games, or plays, so even the Hollywood screenwriter will be debunked as AI requires original stories which only a handful of writers can create.
Glad you enjoyed it! I think your point on writing is spot on, and I think that's why it's particularly important for directors to ALSO be their own writers. Akira Kurosawa said “But if you genuinely want to make films, then write screenplays. All you need to write a script is paper and pencil. It’s only through writing scripts that you learn specifics about the structure of film and what cinema is.” Kurosawa also edited his own films, so he really controlled the process from idea to screen, to great effect. More directors would benefit from his example.
@@Syntopikon Yes. However most directors can’t write. A director is like the conductor of a symphony. They don’t play instruments nor write the scores. They are the one set of ears to balance the artistic work of others. That is why the auteur theory-unless a director is also the writer of an original screenplay and also the production designer or editor- is bunk and has harmed the quality of films.
Really interesting, I had never before heard of "Movie Jail" though it makes sense and could explain why some new directors I enjoy (that don't make blockbusters though) tend to disappear really quickly or enter the indie scene. If I can give some constructive criticism may I recommend trying to have some more fluctuation in your voice? It's soft and nice to hear but tends to be a bit monotone. Fantastic video nonetheless, loved it :) super informative and gave a lot of info but made it super easy to consume.
Thanks for the constructive criticism! Yeah, I'm trying to change the voice and I think I've improved over older videos, but still got a long way to go. I speak in the videos as I do normally, so on one hand, it's unvarnished. But will try to inflect a lot more going forward (though it'll probably take several videos to get into the swing of things).
Oscars ruin careers. It is indeed a curse. Lets also not pretend that Barbie was successful because Margot Robbie was in it. Most of her movies flop
Yep. The IP was the star of that movie: could have been any slim blonde in the Barbie role, it would have crushed at the BO.
Ryan Gosling carried that film.
Great vid!
"But he was back on top with The Happening" made me chuckle
Buy Babylon on 4k DVD, everyone. It looks incredible.
Great essay! As a matter of fact, all these directors have great potential but studios irrationally want them to perform in a perfect ratio. That model is unsustainable and that's the main risk companies like Warner cannot survive much longer. They tend to expect bigger and bigger box office success but they do not trust their directors. The leash is so short producers end up sabotaging their own future movies due fear.
Art cannot survive like that.
Gore Verbisnki did 3 masterpieces ( Pirates of Caribbean) then just....well.
Hope he gets out of Jail 😂
Likewise. POTC is one of my favorite trilogies and, I would argue, some of the funnest movies ever made.
I’m really surprised that Damien Chazelle is still doing another film for Paramount despite Babylon bombing in theaters. I guess either the movie did well on Paramount+ or they really love working with Chazelle. My guess is good as mine. But I was really lucky enough to meet the guy when the film was released and he was pretty chill.
I think it's probably something contractual. It was a first look deal, so I think Chazelle has to take it to Paramount before he can take it elsewhere. Then, they can decide whether they want to produce it outright or maybe find a partner to produce it with. They can also probably set the budget, based on past performance. I think Chazelle would've had a harder time elsewhere than with Paramount. Hopefully it works out for him. I like Chazelle, and I think he's a solid filmmaker. Plus, if he's easy to work with or get along with, that'll probably go a long way as well.
18:42 To my knowledge, Bryan Singer wasn't part of Deadpool 2 and Dark Phoenix.
What movie is the animated hand pulling a trigger at 6:05 from?
Kill bill vol 1
Great directors bombs are akin to a great singer making a bad song choice on a competition show. Still talented but stick to what fits if you want to win.
Great video. Subscribed.
So basically it's a Hollywood version of getting suspended or expelled from school?
Pretty much. Usually suspended as many directors do end up making a return, though it takes them several features to get back on top. Even guys like Cimino directed movies after Heavens Gate, but fewer and fewer people saw them until, at least, he stopped.
As a means of promoting culture, the film industry should be partially subsidized by the state so that visionary directors can create works of art without being constrained by a profit motive . They should, however, be prohibited from abusing the medium for the purposes of social engineering and overt political messaging . But of course that could never happen in the US
Unfortunately, by involving the state, you give the state too much power in being able to reject things that whoever is in charge doesn't agree with. Any prohibition would probably be disallowed on First Amendment grounds, too.
@@Syntopikon how is that any different from a private organization that decides what can and can’t achieve wide release ?
Movie budgets need to decrease. I know the arguments about why blockbusters are kind of the only think that works in modern cinema, I know that streaming killed the DVD/Blu-Ray market so nowadays if a movie doesn't earn money in the first two weeks it will never earn anything, I know that FOMO has become the only way to put people into theaters against the "I'll check it out when it comes to Netflix" attitude and a good way to create FOMO is to say "you will not enjoy this movie at its fullest unless you watch it in a screen bigger than your house", but still, filmmakers can archieve all that without spending 100 million dollars on a movie. Also, there's no reason why an installement in an stablished franchise can't be made in a low-mid budget, not everything has to be Avengers Endgame or Godzilla vs Kong, give me a Captain America movie that its just him in an island trying to deactivate a bomb, with no robots or aliens, just a dude throwing his shield to other dudes untill he reach the Important Dude, the one that you know is important becase he sits in front of a giant computer monitor, simple, engaging, and a competent director can make it with 50 millions or less. Gime an Star Wars film that happens mostly inside one spaceship and the greater universe is mostly implied instead of sending the second-unit director and his crew in a globetrotting adventure because the cities on the planet Naboo look like Istambul but the ones on Yavin VI look like Palenque or something.
Wow interesting topic and great video
Great video
"back on top with 'the happening '" he said.....he said that, I heard it .....I know what I heard, he referred to 'the happening ' in a positive way. You heard it too, right?
Indeed, I said what I said. Terrible critically, but it did manage to eke out a profit based on its budget, which is a success unto itself.
@@Syntopikon" back on top....."
I read a lots of Babylon critics on RT and I still don’t get why they hate it. For me it’s one of the best in 2022. The most disappointing of that year should be Amsterdam
Simon Kinberg directed "Dark Phoenix", not Bryan Singer.
No mention of Tom Hopper and his disastrous _Cats_ movie?
Cats pussied out.
I would love a good comeback story for David Robert Mitchell and Richard Kelly. Their get out of jail card after misfires is going back to the movie that made them successful. Mitchell with a sequel to It Follows set to go and Kelly suggesting going back to Donnie Darko for more. Fingers crossed.
I’d rather watch Babylon then Way of Water any day.
HELL NO!!
Way of Water was actually really good lol much better than the first
@@uhuhuh1966 the first one was really bad I watched it here about three years ago and I’m very skeptical on the new one.
fuck no. you alone on that
@@numberjuan469 nah
The thing you can’t take away from Damien Chazelle is he hasn’t made an actually bad film and despite his setbacks he will recover.
Yup. I'm hoping the next movie turns it around well for him. I think he'll probably be a bit more careful with it.
Babylon was incredible. What a shame. Here’s to the next one Damien 🎉
Tom Hooper should have been mentioned, he is also in movie jail after the Cats disaster. I loved this video, thank you for it.
I used to work with the guy that did the technical execution (I'm not sure of the exact title, but he was in charge of stuff like the CG rendering pipeline) for cats. That film took down a 700 person company, among other things. The stories are pretty wild. Apparently one of the reasons they were sending out edited versions to the cinemas after it had been released was that the director thought it would be so good that it would get nominated for an oscar.
.A video about it would be great. Thank you again
Heavens gate is underrated, it's long and inconsistent, but has moments of absolute beauty
It's one of those movies that's been better reviewed in the time since its release (after restoring Cimino's original cut, I believe).
there is a good movie somewhere inside *Heaven's Gate.* If you have ever heard of David Soderberg's *Heaven's Gate: the Butcher's Cut,* you should look that up and check it out.
there's two good articles online about Phil Joanou and Bob Rafelson (Esquire), both who's strong personalities got them in director jail. Not playing well with others, is probably the bigger crime. The directors who never got out of movie jail were well publicized for being a pain in the ass - Cimino, Trank, Carl Rinsch...
When you watch a movie, which is about movie making like, "The Player"? You wonder, "They are all a pain in the ass! Who should you hate?" (or, "Swimming with Sharks"?) When I hear complaints, without details, I just assume the director/actor is a decent human with a good heart. They are surrounded by nut jobs. Another guy with ups and downs is Terry Gilliam. He is a genius! My feeling is he can't hide his contempt for studio execs.
This could also be a good explanation for why Zack Snyder isn't there (yet). By all accounts, he's a nice, decent, good guy to work with and he gets along with everyone.
Fingers crossed for Rogue Moon 2 being added to the list in the future
I genuinely don't understand budgets any more. How did they swell, and where is the money going? Jurassic Park had a budget of $65m, which adjusted for inflation is about $130m. It doesn't even make the top 100 most expensive films. And that was made with film cameras, mostly practical effects and stunts, and the CGI that was used (and it's actually quite sparing, about 9 minutes) was state of the art at the time and exceedingly expensive. You'd imagine that with much cheaper digital cameras and CGI, the ability to upload and edit dailies on the fly etc. would make films far cheaper these days, not three times more expensive. I mean Titanic was infamous for its giant budget, but at least I can see that on screen with those huge sets, models, and again the CGI was ground-breaking and expensive in 1997... it barely even makes the top 10 now. Someone's getting a very big slice of the pie (lawyers, ip holders etc?)
Directors need creative control other wise the movie just falls apart. Universal truth
The canonical example for me is that the Weinstein's wanted Peter Jackson to tell the entire Lord of the Rings story in 1 movie, Jackson tried to pitch it as 2, and when New Line came in, they said 3 lol