The Murderers: The Crime That Changed A Pub
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ส.ค. 2021
- One of the most interesting and most famous murders to take place in Norwich that would change one pub for ever.
Sources & Pictures
www.themurderers.co.uk/norwich-pub-history.html
www.themurderers.co.uk/pub-history/henry-maria-wilby.html
www.themurderers.co.uk/uploads/images/murder1.pdf
www.themurderers.co.uk/uploads/images/murder5.pdf
www.themurderers.co.uk/uploads/images/charge.jpg
www.themurderers.co.uk/uploads/images/13%20June%201895%201.jpg
www.themurderers.co.uk/uploads/images/frank%20miles%20Execution%20Date.jpg
www.themurderers.co.uk/uploads/images/Repreive.jpg
www.themurderers.co.uk/uploads/images/murderers%20een.jpg
www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/norwich-pub-s-past-can-finally-be-seen-1718616
www.edp24.co.uk/lifestyle/why-is-norwich-pub-called-the-murderers-and-gardeners-arms-1552322
Pictures
Wig and pen picture - Mine
Lollards Pit picture - Mine
www.independent.co.uk/travel/uk/norwich-home-towns-norfolk-uk-travel-b1867012.html
www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Restaurant_Review-g186342-d3198287-Reviews-Kings_Head_Free_House-Norwich_Norfolk_East_Anglia_England.html
www.flickr.com/photos/jelltecks/35386122234
www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowUserReviews-g186342-d3835230-r462991955-The_Black_Horse-Norwich_Norfolk_East_Anglia_England.html
Pictures of the Murders - mine
www.scenicnorfolk.co.uk/timber-hill-norwich/
www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5654983
www.antiques.co.uk/antique/Norwich-Cathedral-from-the--Castle-Norwhich-Norfolk
www.norwich-pubs-breweries.co.uk/norwich_pubs_past/norwich_pubs_past.shtm
www.victoriana.com/VictorianPeriod/mourning.htm
www.starzina.com/Starzina%20Z%20Railways%20Southampton%20to%20Woking.htm
bakerstreet.fandom.com/wiki/S...
www.rnrm.org.uk/web_trail/web_bar_02.html
www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/14159623.images-reveal-changing-face-of-colchester-high-street/
/ prostitution-and-life-...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_E...
www.norwich-pubs-breweries.co.uk/Morgans/Morgans.shtm
www.alibaba.com/product-detail/custom-shaped-match-stick-holder-Vintage_60730384036.html
www.angelpig.net/victorian/engagement.html
www.pengeheritagetrail.org.uk/history/victorian-murder-mystery/
victorianweb.org/art/illustra...
www.mark-davis-photography.com/markdavisauthor/murder-by-gaslight-in-victorian-bradford/
Norfolk & Norwich - mine
choice.npr.org/index.html?ori...
www.norfolk.police.uk/about-us/our-organisation/our-history
commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...
www.antiques-atlas.com/antique/victorian_police_handcuffs__original_key_1862/as884a308
/ three-of-the-most-conv...
www.thehistorypress.co.uk/articles/jack-the-ripper-and-the-tabloid-press/
eehe.org.uk/?p=28288
www.mediastorehouse.com/heritage-images/great-yarmouth-town-hall-1895-14994707.html
www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/443393525799589760/
365psd.com/istock/victorian-c...
www.genealogyreviews.co.uk/reviews/article/hair-raising-history/
www.britannica.com/topic/gallows
www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/world-records/full-list-of-united-kingdom-records/institutions-and-organisations/england-and-wales-crime-prisons-and-punishment-1770-1935
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6602093/Gangster-Reggie-Kray-infuriated-fellow-Parkhurst-inmates-loudly-playing-Engelbert-Humperdinck.html
www.invisibleworks.co.uk/glass-norwich-skyline-1890s/
sotonopedia.wikidot.com/page-b...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles...
theconversation.com/1916-how-...
www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/12/how-does-uks-covid-recession-compare-with-previous-ones
edition.cnn.com/2013/06/11/wo...
www.edp24.co.uk/lifestyle/why-is-norwich-pub-called-the-murderers-and-gardeners-arms-1552322
www.norwich-pubs-breweries.co.uk/norwich_pubs_today/norwich_pubs_today.shtm
www.flickr.com/photos/lwr/4687063077/
NOTES: (1 of 2) It has been brought to my attention that I say Pankhurst rather than Parkhurst, my apologies a slip of the tongue on that one, been looking into the Suffragette movement in the area so naturally have been seeing Pankhurst a lot my brain must of auto filled.
(2 of 2) The current land lords options on Covid vaccines are none of my concern or interested, if you do not wish to use his establishment due to this that is fine but I don't think this comment section is the correct place for this.
I don’t know why I just found your channel. Sometimes YT gets stuff all wrong. You do a terrific job! Thank you. I have to leave, it’s morning here, but I am binge watching you later today. I have seen a couple of your videos now. Your writing and edits…! Blah, blah, blah. Have a great day!
A lot of the pictures are yours! Wow!
@@addie_is_me Had a day off in the city so went around and got any many as I could, wanted to get more but the weather was against me as you can see in London street one.
there was also the muder of Lee Bamber that played for widnes on 8th August 1988 at The Stanley Arms pub on lugsdale road widnes bamber was mudered by Barry Bliss, not long after the Muder The Stanley Arms closed down was empty for years untill it was demolished in 1994, site is now a car park for Tesco
Thanks for the great research and well presented video.
As an ex-Norwich lad and occasional frequenter of The Murderers, I found this very interesting.
Only other small error I noticed is that what you've called 28 London Rd (at 16m08s) is actually London STREET !
An easy, forgiveable mistake to make ! Keep up the great work.
Who leaves a big hammer in their pockets and forgets it's there? I smell bovine poop.
Poor Milly. Women got such a raw deal being married in those times.
Thanks for the upload. Thoroughly enjoyed it. :)
Yes, so unfair their husbands didn't approve of infidelity. However, they did tend to die for it.
@@saffa2326 No, not that at all. Because you were OWNED by your husband.
@@folkloreofbeing And thousands of years ago, men just hit a woman on her head and dragged her away. You go and mourn for what happened in the past and cry your little eyes out. Most of us know it is 2021 and things have changed.
@@saffa2326 There's no need to be hostile over comments. Have a good day :)
@@folkloreofbeing There's no need for you to be patronising, and my days are always good, probably far better than yours because I do not get judgemental over things that happened in the past and cannot be changed no matter how much they are wailed over :D
After weighing all we were told, I have not found the husband to be unfairly sentenced to death. Evidently it was her fault for upsetting him. There was NO mention of remorse for the suffering he caused -- and no pity for the woman he once claimed to love.
Thank you for delivering a clear, concise and factually interesting account, without the 'fluff', ego or upfront demands that are all too common place on TH-cam. Thanks also for your generosity in providing references to your sources.
Thank you, I think it largely comes from being a view of TH-cam from close to its start I know what things annoy me so I try and stay away from them.
That was brilliant. I've had many a decent pub lunch at the Murderers over the years but I didn't know that story. Love the amount of interesting history around Norwich.
Now you know. I feel like they should have a plaque for her or the event, but maybe they feel it would hurt business. Does it make you feel differently?
There is no such thing as a pub with a dull history. Thank you!
Here, here 🍻👍👻
I was thrown out of this pub in the 1980s. I have no idea what I had done although I was little tipsy. My mates thought it was hilarious that I was thrown out of a pub called The Murderers.
Another fantastic presentation
Love these little bits of history ...I’m a keen historian, but left my homeland in 1976, ........it’s so kind of you to research these oddities. Thank you. 💐
Given that he spent the rest of his life in prison it may have been that that was worse than a quick death at the end of a rope...
Great Pub. I like the fact that of one side of the pub sign it shows an image of a garden and on the other side it shows the images of murderous figures dressed in black.
So the images differs depending on which direction you approach
Fantastic always wondered why it was called the Murderers. One of my favourite taverns.
Greetings from Beccles!
Excellent video, well told and the visuals were great.
I believe that pubs should be prevented from renaming from historical and traditional names to some of the ridiculous names they are changed to, especially if the building is listed.
I can't say I disagree with you there, there is 1 in the city and I don't remember the exact dates but it has a blue plaque saying it was call the same thing for about 200 years, then new owner changed it to sound more modern, for sale atm so hopefully it changes back.
There is a pub in Kilburn, northwest London which was called The Cock Tavern which was licensed in 1486 and rebuilt in 1900 changed it's name toThe Juniper in 2020.
Fascinating story, thanks man
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it.
It's one in the morning and I really ought to go to sleep but I can't! I keep telling myself, "one more"!
Easy listening, interesting and addictive.
Thank you, Sir. I appreciate your time and effort. 🙏🏾
Thank you very much.
Many a good night out in Norwich started in the murderers. Once again excellent and well researched . You should do the Norwich ghost walk very knowledgeable.
I am thinking about it, it looks fun.
@@alittlebitofhistory you should. I went on that walk a few years ago.
Brilliant video and once again you have nailed it with the illustrations!
This story is so interesting. That husband received a long drawn out death sentence.
Thank you for another well told piece of history 👏👏
Thank you for sharing this compelling story. I can’t get enough of these fascinating accounts in history. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into creating these videos. Wishing you the best, 👏🇨🇦
I really admire all your research. This is brilliant, thank you.
The was a very well done piece of history, thank you, keep up the good work. Peace and love to everyone.
Excellent research and narration - thank you!
Very well done! Cheers,mate.. 🍻
Fascinating 👍 another great upload...thank you.
Really enjoy your videos thank you 😊
Loving this channel ♥️
"A fine upstanding man" controls his behaviour & temper, & takes full responsibilities for his actions.
Then he dies alone.
Great video, thank you!
Love getting A Little Bit of History! I've been wanting to suggest to you something interesting for you to hopefully dig into. It was the sinking in 1855 of the Barque John that killed many people, including my 1st cousin (6x removed) James Honey, his wife and 7 children. Thank you for all your time and effort put into your channel.
Thank you for suggesting it I will look into it and see if it falls in with the channel, if not I will prob keep it for when I run out of local history and expand.
Always good to hear a new story
For readers of fictional murder mysteries, American writer Martha Grimes has a series of books named after English pubs. Offhand, the one I recall is Help the Poor Struggler.
Very very interesting story and well narrated. Thank you for these stories very well ✔ done
Excellent, Thank you.
Very well done. I don't believe I've heard this story before. Thank you.
Excellent. Informative.👍
A very interesting, well read and sympathetic account
I am from South Africa but have family in Norfolk so I know Norwich. I have eaten at The Murderers several times, and can say they make great fries! Pleasant atmosphere too. I only hope Covid hasn’t ended my visits to that part of the world.
Love ur channel. I love old Victorian murders.
Very informative. Thanks
that was excellent thanks
Another brilliant presentation 👍🏻 The saddest thing for me is that similar killings of estranged wives by over jealous husbands are still far too common today
Sadly very true.
Yes, they are still very common.
As if you know the numbers. I think you are virtue signalling. That is what is all too common - and very tedious.
Jeez. How did she even survive an attack with such a terrible wound for the four days she did?
Not sure just one of those things I guess, the body if pretty great and wanting to survive even if it can't.
Loved this ! What a fascinating story new sub here😀
I can’t wait to visit and try a pint of Murderers Ale! 😊❤…. Really enjoyed that. 👍
Loving this Norfolk channel, you have earned a subscriber this morning. I've had many a messy night in the Murderer's in my youth, lol. I though it was a pub for everyday of the year and a church for every MONTH? One interesting factor that could've been included was how suspicions of prostition would've been perpetuated by the proximity of the red light district. I remember seeing 'ladies of the night' in broad daylight plying their trade at the top of Ber Street when I lived there. My 2 fav pubs where Pottergate Tavern and The Lifeboat. The Lifeboat would be worth covering because the 'Suffolk Strangler' was the landlord there, and suspiciously sex workers have been found in the river near to the pub...... He used to murder sex workers and dump them in flowing water to destroy evidence. Prostitutes were known to board at the Lifeboat when he was landlord also.
I had always heard week plus church for every month would only be 12 and there is more than that even now. Maybe I will cover him in the future but currently he's a bit modern for channel I think.
Was the Ferryboat.
@@alittlebitofhistory I take you point about the Suffolk Strangler is more modern and there are alot of modern true crime channels. Unfortuanately people don't even make in the paper if their is body is dragged out that river because it's just 'another dead prostitute'. It sounds harsh but when the red light district was down Riverside but they got 'moved on' when they redeveolped the area. Back then a body could be pulled up from the river bed and no one would blink an eye lid, let alone moount a full murder investigation. I'm not some internet nutter, but I very strongly suspect he killed in Norwich. The circumstantial evidence points in that direction, and there's alot. But the MSM didn't even touch on his time in Norwich and I'm pretty certain the authorities did not carry out an investigations. I have to apoplogise, got a bit aggressive at one of the COVID comments.....I was just frustrated that there is nowhere to go to find some escapism from all that and this comment section isn't for that, but I just added fuel to the fire.
Thank you. Many an ale tour started there. Love the Festival House sign 9.15. Am sure was there into 80s.
Wow.. so interesting... Thank You.
Earlier this year I was walking my grandson up Timber Hill and pointed to the Gardeners. “That’s known as The Murderers” I said to him. “Why is that?” Asked the seven year old! “That’s cos their all murderers in there”. The smokers outside all gave outlandish laughs and my grandson looked at me quisically and moved on. I hope he remembers that story when I am gone because that is how local history is remembered.
I hope he does too, my love of history is greatly inspired by the time I spent with my late grandfather.
Loved this
An interesting tale, good narration.
Thank you I have been in there many times and never heard the full story
Brilliant! Thank you for covering this nugget. I visited the pub during my Summer School in the 1990s and was told then that the 'church' objected to the pub-sign showing the two names. Noticing that in some pictures it was not present, can we presume that their wish was granted?
I don't know, the pictures without were taken by me only a few days ago, there is normally a sign up, possibly its been taken to be restored.
@@alittlebitofhistory Hope so - it's the sort of 'curiosity' that makes visitors want to learn about the history of a place.
@@alittlebitofhistory Yes, the sign is currently being refurbished - The Church were often unhappy about the gruesome history, but have now come to appreciate the heritage behind the story
Another interesting story, well told.
I side eith the judge on this one. Whether a man bought tickets and dresses for his wife weeks ago has no bearing on a man then announcing his intention for murder his wife the night before following through with the act the next morning. That's the exact definition of premeditation.
Very interesting and sad tale.
Hi, do you have any plans for a video on the old Norwich Asylum? I have visited the site however it’s history is hard to pin down. Love the videos, thank you.
It's on my list but I haven't looked into anything about it yet.
excellent. Ive been in that pub once many years ago. But didnt really know the back ground
That pub must make a killing with those festivals.
#iswydt
Ba dum tish
Well done.
Could you do some more if possible on lowestoft please? Really enjoying your storys chap
I have a look, this weeks is already written but will see what I can do for the week after.
I like that pub, good ales the staff and locals are alright too.
Good one.
Very interesting case….👍👍
Very interesting case.
Yeah I’ve been in the murderers a few times, a bit pricy for a pint but it is a very very atmospheric and fine place for a drink and food. There’s also a fantastic camera shop just a few doors up. 😊
Super pub, with great local beers.
Hay just found this channel, it's pretty good .....
Thank you, also just to let you know the amount of dots at the end got your comment flagged as spam by TH-cam.
@@alittlebitofhistory Thanks I'm a bit behind the times when it comes to computers and technology .I look forward to seeing what other stories you come out with in the future.NZ has some interesting history if you ever get the chance or inclination , anyway have a good one
A very interesting and well-presented account but I must challenge you on the pronunciation of Maria. The modern style came to Britain with West Side Story and until then the name was pronounced Mah-rye-ah. Do you remember the police vans known as Black Mah-rye-ahs? Older generations stuck to the original pronunciation but when my age group dies out (sooner rather than later) it may all be forgotten.
Thank you for pointing it out I did just use the pronunciation of the 3 Marias I have known in my life.
Very interesting history of just one building & it's local
Interesting that the 8 RIH is indicated as stationed at Britannia Barracks which was built for Royal Norfolk Regt. There was however a cavalry barracks at the foot of Mousehold on Barrack Street. The picture shows the Royal Norfolks marching from Britannia Barracks at the foot of St James’ Hill.
The picture was just to illiterate the barracks at time they were in use, every reference I found said that where they were station but they could always of been wrong, thanks for letting me know.
justice still prevailed he still got what he took he suffered like his victims did .
Interesting pub...been in many times...makes life easier for Norwich CID....any suspicious deaths in the city...just question the regulars at the bar...
I came to this expecting it to be about Ronnie Kray and the Blind Beggar, but this was every bit as interesting.
Haha, well I'm glad you liked it anyway, we do have a connection to the Kray's in Norwich though Reggie died in a small hotel by the river just outside the city.
17.35 Pankhurst Prison ?.
I am not aware of a Prison on the Isle of Wight called Pankhurst. The main Prison there is called Parkhurst and is used to contain the most violent Prisoners and also dangerous mentally ill prisoners.
[it is where the Yorkshire Ripper, Ian Brady and the Kray twins was imprisoned]
My mistake I must of misspoke, doing research into the suffragette moment in Norwich atm an Pankhurst come up a lot there as you can imagine, I think I just saw it and my brain took over.
Interesting thanks
Is Pankhurst prison on the Isle of Wight different from Parkhurst prison on the Isle of Wight ?
Scroll to the very top, he apologized 🤓
I thought the Judge read this trial extremely well . They ain't all fools , I doth opine .
Interesting story
A bar maid stole a tenner from my change never been back since
Fair enough comment, would put me off as well.
@@alittlebitofhistory haha it was years ago probably time for another chance, lovely building so much character
Wow, that was a really interesting story , though it seems horrible to call it that knowing what happened. I’m presuming the lady ,who’s had many a good lunch there , didn’t run into the resident ghost . So sad , maybe we’ll never know the full truth , she could have been innocently talking to someone vut he did seem a very jealous man and that can make a man with that temperament, violent. How do you leave a weapon like that in your pocket accidentally. You’d feel it when walking and surely you’d notice it when you disrobed at night. Thank you very much 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
I don’t know anything about Bung picks, but I wonder how common it was to happen to be walking around in ones pocket and on their way to their wives home.
Cheers 🥂 🍻 🌹
what is on the convicts "exercising" faces? covering head and face?
It was just a picture used to illustrate his time in prion but I believe it is of what was known a silent prion, where inmate were banned from talking to each other, they had to exercise in groups constantly watched by guards with hoods over their heads so they couldn't see who they were near.
The Ten Bells seems to have expanded into the next door building since I knew it. Didn’t it used to occupy just the corner house - or is my memory playing tricks on me?
It's always been that way since I have gone there but we are only talking 2014 and after for that.
‘The Bell’ When I 1st went to college in 1979 [yes I was too young to drink but what the hay] we used the go there for Friday lunch, get drunk and be useless for the afternoon lessons.😂
In those days the pub was huge and made up of multiple rooms and bars, I looked like it was serval premises all knocked through to make into 1 giant pub. I’ve no idea of it’s history, of how it got that way. I haven’t been there since so not sure if it’s the same now.
@@alittlebitofhistory Back in the ‘80s I seem to remember a very small and crowded bar. All I can remember was a great range of real ales and a sign at the bar saying “Not Drinking Water”.
@@robg521 yes, but The Bell Hotel is a different establishment.
Law & Order. Norfolk Constabulary.
Frank founded hard to cope with civil life and probably also suffered from some symptom like PTSD or something. Must had been a tough man to live with and share a life. Army personnel have structure and discipline in their lives, takes them awhile to adapt to life after the army. Throw a divorce on top, life stops making sense, routine is gone and loads and loads of questions come into your mind, plus stories you hear here and there. If you can’t cope with this unfortunately you will start to go down a dark path where anything can happen
I think this was probably the case too.
I heard it has a lot of spirits , they even sell them
Drank too much there... gotreallyhammered & next morning also had a splitting headache
was London street London Road in the past?
No I believe I just said it wrong, where I was living around the time I made this video had a London Road I think due to that it just slipped out and I didn't catch it. Interestingly though London Street in Norwich did use to be called Cockney Street.
❤️
Taking your missus there on your wedding anniversary might send out mixed messages!! 🤣
Really interesting case. Those poor women! The daughter taking almost a week to die after such a brutal attack, then having huge numbers of people saying that she somehow asked for it; a complete lack of respect for the dead and also for her suffering. The mother having to live through all of that, watching her daughter die slowly and painfully and having to hear of the man who did it receiving not just swaths of sympathy, but being glorified by the public.
Very sad.
Although he ultimately avoided the noose, a life in prison can’t have been much fun, not that it is anyway but back then it would have been far harsher. So there is a little compensation there.
I had to do a double take when I read how many signed, I knew there had been some but 9000 out of 100,000 is crazy.
@@alittlebitofhistory insane!
I don't believe in the death penalty, but he should not of got any public support. One reason might've been that people were suspicious of her being a 'lady of the night' is that the red light district is in close proximity.
Great pub in England's finest city.
Regular haunt for Norwich City supporters pre-match... ironically owned by an Ipswich Town fan!
Happy hour
Are all your stories local tales and history?🤔
Yes.
I wish l could work at a chemist and live above a pub. My god, all the things l would do.
those blue plaques are such a dreadful colour
I can see where you are coming from with that but I think the whole point is that they are eye catching to you go and read them,
London road ?
London street I think ?
It's PARKHURST Prison not Pankhurst Prison.
Sadly misspoke and didn't realise.
Why was my comment deleted ?
It wasn't by me I can assure you that. The only ones I have deleted are spam ones, please feel free to comment it again.
@@alittlebitofhistory
Cheers will do when I have time .
Thanks
@@graememorris7820 sorry again must be TH-cam being TH-cam.