Porsche Panamera dead?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ส.ค. 2024
- We take a look at the sales trends with in the Porsche line up and some bad news for the Porsche Panamera.
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Good for 2nd hand buyer - get a epic car for much less than a taycan
Range is the only reason why I bought an E-hybrid instead of a Taycan.
But 1 year leftovers can also be a good deal 20-30% discounts as you go towards a higher msrp.
You read my mind
True, but the 1st gen ones are too ugly for me. 2nd gen only haha
Just checked and it seems used Panamera is still more expensive then Cayenne, same year same trim
Just purchased a 2018 4s, and I am incredibly happy with it. Good combination of luxury, sport, and size - imo one of the best out there. Would be sad to see this model go as the taycan is much smaller, and many drivers, myself included, are not as interested in SUVs/crossovers
I’ve got a loaded 2021 Panamera Turbo S Executive on order. So psyched I can barely stand it!!!
(Currently own a 2010 Panamera 4s)
If you turn the sound off, all the arm movements make it look like Nick is pledging for hugs, or not to be left alone, or both.
looks like he's trying to convince a lady, who he is on an expensive dinner date with, that they should go back to his place for a nightcap
Who else here thinks the comments on Nick's videos are better than any other TH-cam channel comments ?
And, if you turn the sound off, it also improves your overall experience.
Redesign and bring back the 928 model name. Wishful thinking from an old Porsche head i know....
928 variant of the Taycan would be pretty nice.
Got unexpectedly caught in the Texas snowstorm aftermath and spent 17 hours on HWY 20 in my 2017 Porsche Panamera before we could exit and find a place to stay. It performed flawlessly. The Taycan would never have made it. Battery tech has a long way to go before I would buy an EV
Tesla camp mode uses about 15% battery per night, would have probably lasted
True, a car battery holds a tremendous amount of energy. So does a gas tank either, but you can really power a lot of stuff with a state of the art car battery.
@@artemZinn But would heat last in snowstorm on an EV? Sounds like a bad bet to me.
Please go and check a video made by the German TH-camr Car Maniac - he did pretty much that exact „test“ with the Mazda MX30, a car that has about half the range of a Taycan. I think you would be surprised about the results: That car, which has an atrociously small battery, only used around 76km of range in a simulated traffic jam of 8.5 hours.
@@Likealot77 Awesome Leon. Thanks!
Nice Eulogy for the Panamera. LOL
Thanks a bunch Nick, just traded in my Model 3 P for a Panamera Sport Turismo Hybrid (don’t care though, no range anxiety and whilst it is subjective, I think the ST is an automotive thing of beauty) 😀
Its not Dead Nickolasss, Porsche announced they have plans for it and there will be a third generation. I suspect they will push it more upmarket so it's a true S class competitor, changing from its between AMG GT 4 Door and S class position right now while making the Taycan the sportier 4 seater offering.
How well pushing it to a higher price lower selling class retain it?
@@machtschnell7452 since they need to further differentiate their two product lines, and they’re hardly going to down grade the Panamera.
I hope you are right. To be honest I never saw that it was in competition with the S-Class. More so with the AMG GT 4 door.
i wouldn't be surprised if they do that. in america, the panamera has lackluster sales but in other markets (like south korea) the panamera sells like hotcakes
I think they'll let the Panamera run until it's originally planned end of generation. Partially because they already bothered doing the refresh so they might as well try and profit off of it as much as possible since it's already done. And then they can also say it was always planned to end then and spin it so it seems like less of a disappointment for Porsche.
I agree Matt! Plus the Chinese are still buying them!
@@NickMurray Please explain your comment?
@@cel7892 What part was confusing for you?
What you are suggesting is the sunk cost fallacy. It doesn't matter what Porsche has already invested in the Panamera, sometimes it is better to just wash your hands of a mistake and move on, even though that is an emotionally difficult business move.
@@TheeAaron I am not understanding the jab comment against the Chinese. I drive a Panamera in Southern California. So far, all other Panamera drivers I have encountered driving a Panamera are Anglos. Additionally, the only complements I have ever received when cruising around are from Anglos. So, please help me understand why @Nick Murray seems to be taking a cheap shot at Chinese people?
Panamera 4 e-Hybrid makes much more sense to me than the Taycan. The e-Hybrid seems like you have your cake and can eat it too. The range is incredible and it goes something like 130kph on electric power and you can use it as a electric commuter.
@nathanjohnson you are so right. I love my Panamera 4 ehybrid
I love mine too but be aware to check the drains in the boot lid as they can become blocked which resulted in the battery getting wet which was very dangerous and £14,000 to replace including VAT and Labour . Porsche had my car for 7 months , quarantined it until the part arrived, it was too dangerous to fix until an expert came down to examine it .
Hybrids are great on paper but not quite as good in the real world. They are always alot heavier than their regular ICE counterparts (the turbo se hybrid was 2400kg vs 2100kg on the normal turbo) which spoils the performance quite a bit. The added hybrid power is more or less eliminated by the extra weight and handling suffers.
Not to mention that they are more expensive and most people only buy them because they are cheaper to run (taxes).
Don't get me wrong, being able to drive short distances electric only is great but we are slowly approaching a point where electric range becomes good enough that the ICE is no longer needed. Electric motors are far superior and I expect EV within the next 3-5 years to rougly double their range when new batteries arrive.
Like the other contributors I love my 2018 4 ehybrid. Commute in electric, no range anxiety and I get to play with that V6 sound when I want to. I'm still not convinced battery electric is the future. Once they have raped the Indian Ocean for cobalt what's next. Although I have to say i have a Taycan on order. I do sometimes pinch myself, in the world we live in today my conundrum to buy another Panamera or a Taycan is not up there with real world problems.
I am not ready to go hybrid but right now it makes sense a business standpoint.
Porsche chief Blume actually just announced they are working on a new Panamera and are making it the most luxurious one so far.
0:39 DO NOT GOOGLE THAT
I agree with you. Two problems with the Taycan though: range and network.
Another Taycan negative versus the Panamera is - rear legroom
@@najibkraytem3473 depends how you look at it. If you look at it as a sports car which happens to have two extra doors and two extra seats, it isn’t bad. If you look at it as a four door luxury sedan then that’s another matter. I see it as the former actually. Porsche make sports cars.
I was just thinking the other day, how many people will say 911 is too small for them and taycan too electric 🤔
That is sad : ( It really is a great car.
Same here. This makes me sad.
@Brian Lee I like both generations of the Porsche Panamera. I would be sad if they cancel it.
@Brian Lee the Panamera fits a perfect market and maybe a nieche market. It is for people who want a fast car but want some cargo space but that is not a SUV. Both generations of the sedan looking ones are popular. When I saw the first generation Panamera, my first thought was that I or anyone can have a Porsche and fit my family and stuff in it and take it to the race track.
Meecedes-Benz did a cleaver commercial with this on the W212 E63 wagon. The commercial showed a woman taking her kids to school, going to get a manicure and then going to race track. Showing this is a car that suit all of your needs and then some.
@@Andrew-zv4fm Your description of what a panamera buyer wants fits me to a T and guess what, I would love to have one for those reasons
@@RideTheTrack so we should go to Porsche and talk to them. Lol
e-hybrid Panamera is a better option to my taste right now. It's pure electric in the city, and it still give you Porsche drive when engine kicks in
A local OPC recently told me they hadn’t even had an enquiry on a Panamera in eight weeks!
1:25 I like how the Boxter/Cayman don't even make the list 😅
Shame the Cayman GTS 4.0 is an epic manual car
Hopefully that is because their sales are off the chart. Oh, who am I kidding. People buy the Cayenne and Macan.
Okay, it is because the Taycan and 718 sales are near identical. That is why you can’t see them.
When Porsche was selling 911 and Boxster/Cayman only their sales worldwide were 20-30k a year. Only with the Cayenne/Macan and Panamera where they able to reach 200k...
China/Asia&Middle East sales in 2020 for Porsche 129k North America: 69k Europe: 81k
The Panamera is fine on a global scale.
I agree with you (I think in general all of the super sedans will die out) but I can still hate it. My first experience with the Panamera was at barber msp and it really is a fantastic car if you need 4 doors and want a driving experience to enjoy
I dont think they will kill it.
Maybe it is not popular in the US, but how about other markets?
In Germany and Switzerland I see it quite often
What about 718??
I understand the interest in the Taycan but don’t believe EVs will ever grow from the small percentage of the overall vehicle fleet they are now to as high a percentage as people predict. The initial party trick of acceleration and the benefits of use for commuting in urban areas will appeal to some buyers. However, EVs will never replace construction vehicles, become a significant segment of the pickup truck market, sell well in rural America, or replace long distance cruisers who don’t want to waste time charging. Not to mention the facts that they are not as “green” as many think considering much of the energy to charge them comes from coal, the battery material is a limited resource, and the current electric grid could never handle even 50% of American vehicles needing to be charged daily. RIP Panny. I own 5 Porsches currently but not a Panny so I guess I’m partially to blame.
Jesus, we are heading towards complete bans on petrol engines by governments. Audi/Mercedes have already said they will not be making another petrol engine. Whether we like it or not EVs are the most feasible replacement we have.
@@ash3rr Not in your lifetime. Batteries are not the final answer.
@@Closertotruth2 I don't claim that batteries are the final answer, but they are the most feasible option we have at present, as we move away from petrol engines. You do realise there are a lot of companies in the US that are focusing on EV utilitiy vehicles (workhorse for example).
@@ash3rr Yes and the solution for Europe will not be the solution for the US. We have decommissioned many nuclear plants and don’t have the grid to charge tens of millions of car batts. We have a much higher percentage of pickups that travel in sparsely populated areas that don’t even have reliable internet let alone charging station. While the US continues to build out our wind and solar capabilities they are already proving to be unreliable, just ask the folks in Texas recently. The US automobile population will be reliant on gasoline until natural gas, hydrogen, or even nuclear power is adapted to vehicles on a broad scale. It won’t matter what car manufacturers decide to produce. Folks will just keep their gas vehicles longer or buy even more vehicles from Japan or Korea.
@@ash3rr Synthetic fuels are a possible way ahead. Porsche is spending heavily into their research at present.
So basically, the Panamera will become a classic, collectible car in the near future 😀
Recently purchased a 2015 GTS Panamera and absolutely love it. Comfortable, powerful and beautiful in red with tan interior.
Agreed. Once I saw the Taycan Sport Turismo I knew Panamera’s days were numbered
It's called Cross Turismo, but yeah.
@@oysteinalsaker A Sport Turismo is also reportedly coming.
@@henryhealy Looking forward to that. I can't stand the crossover styling.
Why? I own a 4 ehybrid. Had a turismo for a while and got rid. May look good on a video but unless you get the right angle it's one umfu. Everyone wondered what I had done.
I've never come across a man so dedicated to the Porsche brand, truly a sight to behold!
Market tastes do change and everybody is going electric, I think it'll make a great buying opportunity on the used mkt to pick up a Panamera, which has a very handsome interior.
Used Panamera prices are still high in my neighborhood
Panameras have been sold pretty well in Finland thanks to the hybrid models and car tax based on co2. But now Taycan is taking snatching those customers here also. 300 Porsches sold in Finland in 2020 of which 100 were Taycans.
The Taycan/Cross Turismo lack the rear legroom and boot space to replace the Panamera. My guess is that Porsche will introduce a larger electric platform for the Cayenne and Panamera (which will get used by other non-Porsche vehicles as well).
Where’s Nick? I only see an Elvis impersonator...
That would be Ilvus.
As a current owner of a 4 e-hybrid, im sad about this but it does of course make complete sense. Still love it though! Future classic? :)
Thinking about getting a Pana Sport Turismo to keep my 911 company.
A couple years ago I had a friend take me and two other chaps for a blast in his brand new Panamera, Hybrid Turbo S. This 150k four seater went like the clappers with four robust late 40’s gentlemen onboard. But as impressive as hybrid 0-100 mph was it was the brakes on that beast. It was internal organ rearranging stuff!!
One heck of a car imo.
Cheers Nick.
Earlier in life, had the Panamera been around (as well as more scratch to pay for one), it would have been an over the top choice for hauling family and a**. Children are grown now, so the 911 sits in the garage.
Had to laugh when I saw your post. My daughter is grown and the 911 is beautiful but with two grandkids to haul around I'm really leaning towards the Panamera. My daughter currently drives a Macan. It's been a fun car to drive. Love Porsche.
I just ordered a new 2021 GTS lol .. but I'm a straight up ICE pistonhead and this fits exactly what I need. To each his own ... as long as it keeps Porsche making great cars all good.
congratulations can I ask you what discount you got out of curiosity ?
@@clementelu6155 came out to about 4-5%
To your point Nick, just ordered a Taycan 4s and never even considered owning another Panamera
Would make for a decent used purchase with the deals that can be had on one. The newer ones look quite nice.
As my current car leasing contract is running out, I was looking for a successor of my current car. My shortlist was: BMW M5; BMW M8, AMG E63 and Porsche Panamera Turbo. From my perspective, the Panamera is really a nice car and drives superb. But, in comparison to its competitors, it is just far to expensive (esp. For leasing). Compared to an BMW M8 (2.200 EUR), the panamera turbo (3.500) costs approx 1.000 EUR more per month for leasing. Maybe if Porsche would make the car cheaper, it would sell significantly better
Forget the Panamera - wtf have you done to your hair?!
What’s the story behind rocking the 50’s Elvis look? Feeling All Shook Up Nick? 😉
Looks like a Jimmy Neutron hairdo
Not dead at all, turbo s E-Hybrid range is a success in europe
I hope you're wrong. I've had 3 Panameras so far - 2010 4S, 2013 GTS, and 2018 Turbo Sport Turismo. I've loved them all, but the Turbo most of all. I'm a few months away from ordering a 2021 Turbo S Sport Turismo. I'll admit that the Taycan Turbo is the car I actually *want* but it would have to be my long distance ski car (SoCal to the Sierras) if it replaces my Panamera. I'm afraid that between issues of range, charging locations, cold weather, and the length of charge stops vs. gas stops, the Taycan just doesn't make sense for me. So it's going to be at least one more Panny while I wait to see if some of those problems can be worked out of the Taycan. Just a thought, but might lease residuals give a clue as to Porsche's plans? I'd expect them to drop noticeably if there's a plan to terminate the car.
The Panamera is not planned as a high volume car. afaik they haven't stopped the development of the Panamera G3 yet. Perhaps as a BEV.
I don't know. I love everything about my Panamera... To me, it's a true Porsche driving experience and ...family option. I call it my family 911
Remarks:
1. The Panamera shares it's platform with the Cayenne. That means, only a fracture of design & development costs. Just another body (not a big deal).
2. What you are telling us souds logical from an US point of view. Guess, US customers use their cars for driving to work or to places like the golf club and things. I don't think they us that car to drive frequently (e.g. once a month) from the LA area to the San Fransisco area and back (or these kind of distances, here approx 620 km).
3. However, its designers think about business people who do frequent long haul trips, between 200 and 500 km + return same day (typical for German business people, where Porsche comes from). Because of the charging problem, this is still IMPOSSIBLE for most battery eleltric cars. Therefore, a well-done hybrid is the only alternative. And- that's what you get with a Panamera. Apart from that- I personally don't like the look of the Taycan- but that's a different story... .
4. As of 2026 Europe will be facing new, extremely tight exhaust gas regulations. It's quite unlikely to sell combustion engine only cars as of this date. If Porsche would be phasing out some models, it would be then. Not earlier.
I’m starting to love Porsche, I would love a GT3
The Panamera and Taycan are so close in size. I would love to see the, both replace with a numbered coupe-like lift back. I think 928 would work well if the design was spot on. I think my dad will be getting a base model Taycan.
It is true that Panamera sales are not that good, but it does really depend on the market. Where I'm from (Netherlands), about an equal amount of Macans and Panamera's have been sold
Not sure I agree with you on this one Nick, the Taycan and the Panamera are not competing in the same segment. Unless Taycan make a hybrid or Panamera go full EV.
Just picked up a 4S with 63k for 30. Best buy of my life! It might be dead for the new market, but for the used market, its just begun!
What year was it if you don't mind sharing?
@@justjayallen8744 2013
@@octoman_games thank you! Do you still drive it? And has it been reliable? I'm thinking of getting a 2015-17.
@@justjayallen8744 I've had ZERO issues with it. I did the PDK service already tho. I was told NOT to edit for 100k miles. I love it
@@octoman_games awesome man thank you. Good luck with everything going forward. I'm either going Lexus or Porsche. I'm excited
maybe...drove a new 3lt last month; not enough rear leg room, I'm 188cm and I cant fit behind my driving position, not quiet enough for a luxury sedan, [epic fail] our cayenne and a Macan are quieter, haptic dash is a disaster in ergonomics, boot too small in length, cant fit golf clubs. So close but not executed well enough, and of course the price is stupid....Porsche price gouging at its finest. and I've always been a fan of them in principle.
Hi Nick! The Panamera sells still well in their other large markets China and Europe. But in general I agree the Taycan will steal sales from the Panamera.
After 3 years driving an EV, I sold it and returned to combustion. Not going back to an EV for at least 10 years or a point where the charging infrastructure is more reliable
Agreed upon, Nick. No tears shed over here in The Netherlands either. Thanks however, again, for your video! Cheers, Irwin 🦅
Where is the Boxster / Cayman in your graph? (or: "Boxsterle", as some Porsche employees in Weissach call the little one)
great car... i bet they would've sold way more if msrp was 15k less.
Love these sit down videos. Hoping you do a breakdown of the 992 GT3 configurator soon! 🤗
I have my eye on an second hand 2019 ST GTS with the goal of buying one right around the time they reach the end of their product lifecycle to try to maximize value from the depreciation curve.
Panamera urban pick up truck coming soon. The German Elcamino!
Someone did that to a rolls royce in Marin County. They use it to buy hay bales for their horses. Porsche needs to fill that niche.
I agree Nick. As soon as there were rumors of an electric “Pajun” (remember that?) I always thought the Panamera’s days were numbered. Looking forward to your real world impressions of the Taycan RWD as I’m in the market in the next 2 years when my Model 3 Performance lease is up.
Just ordered one to replace the Cayenne e hybrid Nick. Really great value with the Platinum edition. Handles better than the Cayenne and not ugly like the Taycan
I actually wondered if this was strategic on Porsche’s part - who wouldn’t see that coming?
I agree. I think all these editions are more just a way to get rid of parts bin. It's very typical for end of life cycle Porsche to add a bunch of "special editions" so this is actually pretty on par for them.
Sadly our aged infrastructure requires you to have an suv. Lol
In my eyes, it's not really dead. It's just renamed and redesigned as the Taycan
I agree Nick. Thank you for the insight.
Excellent video as almost always Nick!
(i did follow you even at those dark M3 days!)
😊
I have always loved the Panamera, until last week when I loaned a Taycan 4S while my 911 was being serviced. The Taycan 4S was shocking impressive, I will never again consider the Panamera given their similar pricing. The Taycan 4S should be rebadged the Orgasmatron 4S.
“Sales of mid-sized saloon cars have dropped right off; nobody buys the them...”. Yep, totally agree. Why do you think, the demand for the Taycan runs contrary to this trend? 🤔😊
Incentives. In the U.K. you can write off the entire purchase of a Taycan tax free in the 1st year. Other markets vary, but there are powerful schemes to drive demand.
I saw a European press article within the last fortnight were Oliver Blume had said the Taycan was not a replacement for the Panamera which was more up market and there could well be an EV vehicle with that name. I would agree that we probably have the last ICE Panamera
Sad... I've always loved the panamera!
im from the future and there is a new panamera 3rd gen out now, so no it’s not dead yet still
Nick, I really enjoy your content, and I don’t know why. Anyway, my Chalk 992 4S with Graphite Blue interior is awesome. Thanks N
It's so sad, it is a beautiful car 😭❤️
Panamera GTS is a fantastic car. I agree it’s days are numbered!!
Hello Nick, Gerry here, I enjoy your appraisals on Porsche's, however I have a 2020 Panamera GTS its a killer car, nothing else to be said. I believe it is not suited to everyone but I have no
buyers remorse and look forward to upgrades in the future. (I gave up playing with electric cars when I was 10) Nice channel! thanks
LOL 10
Tragic. I love my Panamera Turbo, with FVD goodies that brought it up to 700 hp.
According to “motor authority“ of January 7,
“Porsche engineers are out testing a Panamera sporting an update, suggesting that the current generation of the big fastback hatch is about to be updated for the second time.
The current Panamera arrived on the market as a 2017 model and was given its first update for 2021, though that update focused more on the powertrains and as a result the exterior and interior designs have changed little since the original market launch.
Looking at the prototypes, we can see that the front fascia is a new design featuring larger side intakes and a new shape for the center intake. A second center intake has also been added, sitting just above the license plate.
The front fascia also features Porsche's thin-slit daytime running light design, which already features on the 911, 718 and Cayenne and has just been added to the Macan which received its own second update for 2022.
Though not shown in the photos, the dash in the prototypes was fully covered, which points to tweaks being made here as well.
It's difficult to gauge when we might see this second update introduced, but a strong possibility is the 2023 model year, as this is when the Cayenne is due to receive its own update. Both models will likely share powertrain and interior technology. An updated version of the Panamera Sport Turismo wagon should also arrive around this time.”
Between the Taycan and the Audi RS7, which is all but the same thing as the current Panamera turbo's for much less cash, the Panamera seems to have lost its raison d'etre. I'd love a low-mile, well-optioned first gen, pre-refresh Turbo or Turbo S though; gorgeous cars.
Its sad. We're sunsetting these combustion engine cars with the assumption that the move to EV will be the right one. Its not really that cut and dry, we'll see how the future works out but I don't think it's the inevitability everyone is projecting
I guess if Porsche do go ahead and make synthetic fuels readily available at a reasonable cost the whole drive towards EVs could be questionable. I simply can’t understand how EVs are marketed as non polluting. The minerals mined to construct the batteries and the energy it takes to build them is off the scale before the cost of disposal is factored in. Where does all the power come to charge them??
Nice video, good question. I won't miss the Panamera, it looks big and clumsy. If I want to drive something with an Audi engine, I'll get an Audi.
I disagree about the 2024 demise of Panamera... It still sells pretty well in Europe and China, and the E-Hybrid version sells well in Europe, which is a big plus for it there (over the ICE-only version, due to increasing European restrictions on ICEs). In fact, the E-Hybrid aspect of both Panamera and Cayenne are pluses that will carry them through the rest of the decade, I would imagine. Many Panamera owners are not happy with the smaller size of the Taycan -- both for seating, for ingress and egress, and for storage; the Panamera is longer than the Taycan and bigger inside. And the Macan has a disadvantage going through the 2020s because it has no E-Hybrid variant, so the ICE version of Macan is more likely to die off before the ICE version of Panamera (in E-Hybrid form), ironically.
While it is true that sales of the Panamera are still strong in China, in Europe they sales are worse than in the US.
I've once read that they're very aware of the fact that the Taycan cannibalized the Panamera. However apparently they'll turn it into an EV as well, so it will be interesting to see how they'll differentiate both cars.
The bigger question is what will happen to the Boxster/Cayman. They apparently want to keep the current generation running al the way until 2023/24.
Very good analysis Nick - as always! Can’t wait to see how you configure your 992 - as sole inspiration
How was New Zealand?
Porsche Panamera was never alive IMO. Thing looked like a loaf of bread 🥖
Just bought a 16’ w/ only 17k mi. Great car!
I'm guessing "saloon car" must be a European term? I came across it once in print, but thought it was a misspelling. 1:12
I seem to recall reading or hearing somewhere that the Gen 1 Panamera was ugly because someone with lots of influence at Porsche insisted on extra head height for back seat passengers.
It is not just that the Panamera sales never took off, the depreciation value is plain terrible (around -17%/year) for a six-figure vehicle.
A used Taycan Sport Turismo will probably be my first dedicated daily driver (23, just coming out of college, having owned coupes my whole life)
Hey Nick, whats that flashing cube in the background?
I have a Panamera 4. Great car, but I agree with you Nick.
I’ve got a 2020 992 S but I’m chopping it in for the new electric Macan next year. I used to have 2017 Macan and it was the most comfortable car I’ve ever owned.
I wish Porsche made it into a proper wagon.
I'm really looking around for a nice used one...2015-2019...I actually love these cars... Hopefully I'll get blessed with a low miles,one owner and garage kept one...Thanks great video
I think you are on to something Nick and if the sails dose not show any signs of increasing it will not live for long.
I do not think Panamera will be discontinued but it will become a hybrid model. All electric is just not feasible, imagine how the New Yorkers would have to run their power cables from their apartments to the streets to charge their cars 😂
I did not love the original Panamera, but this second generation I do appreciate the design language much more. I also like the Turismo versions, but my budget couldn't afford a colored wheel crest...so there's that. lol
Glad to see them go