I work at Keslow Camera and helped the camera team on Top Gun: Maverick for an entire year and a half with getting this thing setup. Saying it was insane is an understatement. Claudio Miranda had countless lens tests and Dan Ming, Bob Smathers, and Max DeLeo prepped camera for an entire 3 months prior to shooting. a normal feature film preps for maybe 4-5 days. They had the exact dimensions of the cockpit mapped out on the floor in tape so he can figure out exactly how to run all the cabling for the Rialto blocks. The crew worked directly with our R&D team to design and manufacture all the brackets needed to pull it off. Custom camera trigger boxes were needed to start recording on all the cameras at the same time and had to be done by the cast. The Voigtlander lenses were modified to remove the hoods that come stock on them because they would get in each others shots. Not necessarily for weight but more so for space. IIRC at it's peak, Top Gun had 32 cameras out at the same time across multiple units. None of the custom gear can be used again because it's all certified by the US Department of Defense. Sadly it may never see the light of day again. Keslow is the owner of Venice & Rialto serial #1. If you rent from them you may get lucky and get it!
This system was also used to film "Minamata" in 2019. I remember I was blown away by it, when they removed the sensor to get low to the ground dynamic shots of Johnny Depp for a frog eye perspective view. Almost like having a smaller form factor camera or mirrorles with a powerful brain...
The Venice camera with the Rialto system sounds like a dream configuration. If I could afford the Venice 2 camera, I would definitely include the Rialto system in my setup.
I’m not sure that’s correct about Sony being inspired by the Alexa M. The Alexa M was released in 2011, I think. But way before that in 2006, Sony had the HKC-T1500 which is essentially exactly the same concept.
wow that sony venice 2 is a true beauty, the detachable mount is very practical even to put a stabilizer on it without losing the brutal specifications. 😍
Just finished prepping venice 2 for a 5 week feature. There are some things I like about it like the full set of internal ND's, 2x 3pin fischer standard, and the control panel on dumb side. Thing's I dislike are the EVF, the arri cage is mediocre at best and attaching TX is a nightmare compared to alexa studio or mini, also attaching an MDR is not fun. I like the idea of the rialto system but I believe if you want to use it that way it's better to have a dedicated body for rialto because when you have to changeover it's literally like building an entire new package. Backpack rigs are also contradictory for tight spaces as the op is gonna be banging the body into walls and things behind him. Guarantee it happened multiple times on boiling point.
@@anirudhtd7193 mini, mini LF, or alexa 35 > venice 2 imo. My colleague was on B cam for s1 of Last of Us and they used a stripped down mini LF body with backpack rig to mount TX, MDR, battery etc. The body is a couple lbs heavier than the rialto extension when stripped but overall weight and size is smaller because you're not carrying the additional huge body on your back. Mini also more versatile for steadicam, ronin2 and crane etc. Also the alexa mini EVF > sony EVF. Somehow the mini EVF is smaller and has a flipout LCD screen than the sony EVF.
The Venice 2 and Rialto system create a formfactor that I would love to do some shoots with. Unfortunately they are at a price point a touch out of my scope until I hit bigger and more frequent clients X"D But, as with most tech, I can see this system making its way down to the lower end of the pro lineups within a decade or two. Thankfully cameras like the FX3 pair fairly well with the FX9 and give your a smaller formfactor to fit in those tighter and more awkward spaces. But definitely keep the high end showcases coming :3 I love seeing what the industry has on all spectrums and seeing where we are headed with technology~
Great video and pretty incredible system! Although I would say there was a little missed opportunity to not mention Avatar: The Way of Water with that weird stereoscopic setup they had.
Love this - back to the 90s/00s with small high quality agile cam systems - thanks CVP for super informative and thorough (as always) deep dive. Will share with colleagues and students- cheers + love the 80s/90s video game arcade!!
We've used it for a few shoots where I was a 2nd AC with the body strapped to a cine saddle and that saddle strapped to me. I would just move with the DP and kind of spot him at the same time. Also because it wasn't on my back, but resting on the saddle in front of me I had quick access to the camera settings. This system can be a real advantage shooting here in Tokyo where space can be non-existent in certain locations.
I feel like it would make more sense for the whole camera to be on a cine saddle with just one person instead of the camera in two pieces with two people if space was a big deal…
Ok Sony… let’s see a 4.8k Venice sensor later this year. With dynamic range that competes with an Alexa 35, higher frame rates, and Venice 1/2 compatible. Boom!
It's so clever and so useful that it's weird that it wasn't widely adopted many years ago. I wish you mentioned how they connected two of them to record Avatar: The Way of Water in IMAX 3D.
nice vid. I gotta rig this tomorrow and now I know most of what I need to know :) that emount tucked away brings an option if the cine glasss is too heavy
So cine cameras turning into mirrorless cameras and mirrorless cameras are turning into cine cameras. What you can get out of a a75, R5, s5ii, and many others can easily go on the big screen. What a time we live in!
This is so funny. All the would be TH-cam filmmakers are trying to get larger and larger looking cameras (or at least trying to make their mirrorless cameras look like cinema cameras by adding matte boxes that they don't even use) and Hollywood is like 'hey if we didn't need all the buttons, and inputs, we'd be using smaller cameras too.'
Imagine, if more manufuctureser could so this and have common cable systems that allowed third parties to develop their own sensors (or bodies) a red Red sendor with a sony body or vice versa
@@vhateg I've used a pocket 6K as a webcam...pretty frequently actually. If you're just sitting there, and have peaking pulled up on a monitor it's not tough to do.
@@CVPTV The picture quality is really great, I wanted to buy the r5c, but the price in China and the US is too high. I finally chose bmpcc6kpro. Picture quality is okay too.😁😁
There are a few things Sony would have to unlock with firmware in order for it to be more appropriate like DCI, true 24fps, open gate and shutter angle. Of course the Venice shoots 6k as well.
@@daniellove162 I'm less concerned about the resolution, but yea huge issue if it lacks true 24 and is not actually DCI, but I figure that doesn't mater much if you chose to record ProRes RAW.
@@daniellove162 that is completely false. You can record 16 bit RAW on the Venice 1 through the R7 via Rialto. And ProRes RAW is the most overrated codec around. You get way more practical use out of ProRes 4444 XQ.
@@Dlowreyjr01 - The production house I work at has 2 Venice 1s with the AXS-R7 backs. Show me documentation that the Rialta system can leverage the R7 back. At Cinegear 2022 we had exclusive meetings with Sony execs. They talked about how in Top Gun 2 the RIALTA does NOT accommodate RAW. Even the RED corporate was trashing the Rialta for not doing RAW.
Not a new concept. In 2009, Silicon Imaging introduced the SI-2K. A digital cinema camera with a detachable sensor block. Slumdog Millionaire was partially filmed on it.
Let’s be honest… The Sony Venice as far as I’m concerned does not look very good. The number one camera used by Hollywood is the Alexa. And more people use Red then the Venice.
the fx3 wouldnt work at all, not only is the image difference alot when you start grading and doing vfx passover, the venice would allow for sdi output and the bigger body works alot better
The Sony VENICE 2 & RIALTO Extension System is awesome but let us know what you think of it down below!
What I think? I want one 🙏🙌💯😂 pleeeeeease 😂 great review guys, as always
I work at Keslow Camera and helped the camera team on Top Gun: Maverick for an entire year and a half with getting this thing setup. Saying it was insane is an understatement. Claudio Miranda had countless lens tests and Dan Ming, Bob Smathers, and Max DeLeo prepped camera for an entire 3 months prior to shooting. a normal feature film preps for maybe 4-5 days. They had the exact dimensions of the cockpit mapped out on the floor in tape so he can figure out exactly how to run all the cabling for the Rialto blocks. The crew worked directly with our R&D team to design and manufacture all the brackets needed to pull it off. Custom camera trigger boxes were needed to start recording on all the cameras at the same time and had to be done by the cast. The Voigtlander lenses were modified to remove the hoods that come stock on them because they would get in each others shots. Not necessarily for weight but more so for space. IIRC at it's peak, Top Gun had 32 cameras out at the same time across multiple units.
None of the custom gear can be used again because it's all certified by the US Department of Defense. Sadly it may never see the light of day again.
Keslow is the owner of Venice & Rialto serial #1. If you rent from them you may get lucky and get it!
I like Miranda's work. Thanks for sharing!
You could literally wear a backpack and run and gun like its a mirrorless rig...that's awesome!
except you still have to carry all the weight of the body and its got some heavy bones..
@@markymarkvancity or... someone else can carry it
0:05 dhanush 😍
This system was also used to film "Minamata" in 2019. I remember I was blown away by it, when they removed the sensor to get low to the ground dynamic shots of Johnny Depp for a frog eye perspective view. Almost like having a smaller form factor camera or mirrorles with a powerful brain...
The Venice camera with the Rialto system sounds like a dream configuration. If I could afford the Venice 2 camera, I would definitely include the Rialto system in my setup.
Like CVP mentioned, Sony got inspired by the extension unit from the ARRI Alexa M. As far as I know, ARRI abandoned the M-Line...
Exactly, like 8 years ago
I am hoping Arri will revisit this.
I’m not sure that’s correct about Sony being inspired by the Alexa M.
The Alexa M was released in 2011, I think. But way before that in 2006, Sony had the HKC-T1500 which is essentially exactly the same concept.
wow that sony venice 2 is a true beauty, the detachable mount is very practical even to put a stabilizer on it without losing the brutal specifications. 😍
You just melted my brain. Thank you.
1:06 Total Ghostbuster vibes!
This not camera, this is SONY...
Just finished prepping venice 2 for a 5 week feature. There are some things I like about it like the full set of internal ND's, 2x 3pin fischer standard, and the control panel on dumb side. Thing's I dislike are the EVF, the arri cage is mediocre at best and attaching TX is a nightmare compared to alexa studio or mini, also attaching an MDR is not fun. I like the idea of the rialto system but I believe if you want to use it that way it's better to have a dedicated body for rialto because when you have to changeover it's literally like building an entire new package. Backpack rigs are also contradictory for tight spaces as the op is gonna be banging the body into walls and things behind him. Guarantee it happened multiple times on boiling point.
Would you prefer an arri lf or the Venice?
@@anirudhtd7193 mini, mini LF, or alexa 35 > venice 2 imo. My colleague was on B cam for s1 of Last of Us and they used a stripped down mini LF body with backpack rig to mount TX, MDR, battery etc. The body is a couple lbs heavier than the rialto extension when stripped but overall weight and size is smaller because you're not carrying the additional huge body on your back. Mini also more versatile for steadicam, ronin2 and crane etc. Also the alexa mini EVF > sony EVF. Somehow the mini EVF is smaller and has a flipout LCD screen than the sony EVF.
The Venice 2 and Rialto system create a formfactor that I would love to do some shoots with. Unfortunately they are at a price point a touch out of my scope until I hit bigger and more frequent clients X"D But, as with most tech, I can see this system making its way down to the lower end of the pro lineups within a decade or two. Thankfully cameras like the FX3 pair fairly well with the FX9 and give your a smaller formfactor to fit in those tighter and more awkward spaces. But definitely keep the high end showcases coming :3 I love seeing what the industry has on all spectrums and seeing where we are headed with technology~
Great video and pretty incredible system! Although I would say there was a little missed opportunity to not mention Avatar: The Way of Water with that weird stereoscopic setup they had.
Love this - back to the 90s/00s with small high quality agile cam systems - thanks CVP for super informative and thorough (as always) deep dive. Will share with colleagues and students- cheers + love the 80s/90s video game arcade!!
We've used it for a few shoots where I was a 2nd AC with the body strapped to a cine saddle and that saddle strapped to me. I would just move with the DP and kind of spot him at the same time. Also because it wasn't on my back, but resting on the saddle in front of me I had quick access to the camera settings. This system can be a real advantage shooting here in Tokyo where space can be non-existent in certain locations.
I feel like it would make more sense for the whole camera to be on a cine saddle with just one person instead of the camera in two pieces with two people if space was a big deal…
Ok Sony… let’s see a 4.8k Venice sensor later this year. With dynamic range that competes with an Alexa 35, higher frame rates, and Venice 1/2 compatible. Boom!
People don’t realize that when you use the rialto system with the Venice 1 it can not do RAW but uses a 10 bit log file.
6K at 10bit for cinema is fine.
why you telling lies lol.
The most useful channel on youtube knocking it out of the park again.
i covered the rialto in my top gun video. it's awesome.
It's so clever and so useful that it's weird that it wasn't widely adopted many years ago.
I wish you mentioned how they connected two of them to record Avatar: The Way of Water in IMAX 3D.
nice vid. I gotta rig this tomorrow and now I know most of what I need to know :) that emount tucked away brings an option if the cine glasss is too heavy
It has that "Sony look". Grey-green and kinda milky/hazy is their style. Japan winter misty daylight colour spectrum.
Varicam 35 also had a similar system to this. It’s a great concept
Other movies you forgot to mention were shot with the Sony Venice are _Avatar: The Way of Water_ and _Black Panther: Wakanda Forever._
I love how everyone started to make videos about the rialto system when topgun came out and I was shooting with it 1 year before that xD
Awesome review CVP! 👍
Great video! In andor they used the arri lf as main cam and the venice as bcam
Favorite camera. 🖤
So cine cameras turning into mirrorless cameras and mirrorless cameras are turning into cine cameras. What you can get out of a a75, R5, s5ii, and many others can easily go on the big screen. What a time we live in!
informative 6.5mins, do the FX6 (sony) too, Thanks CVP.
I could have sworn I JUST WATCHED a video just like this 🤔🤔🤔
DJI ronin can do it also for a quarter of the price
How long can the cable go? Is it a fixed length?
Could you do a full review of the original Venice?
I was wondering how they got that corridor shot in ‘Top Gun: Maverick’ with such little room for a cinema rig. Nice
sony did this back in the 90s with an ENG camera BVP-T70
Very cool for VR production. Probably get the IDP correct being that small.
Amazing camera
I swear I saw a Pentax Takumar on one of those Top Gun cameras!
It's also nice in a 3d rig using two cameras.
О, прикольно, вчера видел как на Арбате на такую снимали какой-то сериал)
Worked as an AC for gig with this camera. Honestly Did not like it. Shoots well but it's kinda hard to be quick with between setups
This is so funny. All the would be TH-cam filmmakers are trying to get larger and larger looking cameras (or at least trying to make their mirrorless cameras look like cinema cameras by adding matte boxes that they don't even use) and Hollywood is like 'hey if we didn't need all the buttons, and inputs, we'd be using smaller cameras too.'
Imagine, if more manufuctureser could so this and have common cable systems that allowed third parties to develop their own sensors (or bodies) a red Red sendor with a sony body or vice versa
It would be a killer webcam.
Jokes aside, it won't. It doesn't have autofocus.
@@vhateg I've used a pocket 6K as a webcam...pretty frequently actually. If you're just sitting there, and have peaking pulled up on a monitor it's not tough to do.
But where is the link to the short film you shot?
You can see it in this video - th-cam.com/video/YXMaUtfWHkU/w-d-xo.html
please review samyang V-AF prime lenses.
Great cameras ...
may I know which camera shoot you in this video?thx
Canon R5 C! Jake
@@CVPTV The picture quality is really great, I wanted to buy the r5c, but the price in China and the US is too high. I finally chose bmpcc6kpro. Picture quality is okay too.😁😁
I always wished I could get a top end Sony camera since the F65.
The F65 you can buy cheap these days
I legit thought those fighter jet scenes were all done in a digital backlot
The name makes sense, the Rialto being this famous bridge in Venice (Italy, not California 😂).
Great video.
Sent here by frame Voyager 😆
👊
the only curiousity i have is that why no manufacturer made this design since the seperate camera / vtr era...
.... And before the SI2K mini;
We only had the BVW-35 BetaCam SP
NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT UMATIC.
nice, thank you
u forgot black panther 2 was shot on the venice and venice 2
Dhanush greay man
I don't understand why this needed, I feel like most would just use a FX3 in these situations. That should intercut seamlessly.
There are a few things Sony would have to unlock with firmware in order for it to be more appropriate like DCI, true 24fps, open gate and shutter angle. Of course the Venice shoots 6k as well.
@@daniellove162 I'm less concerned about the resolution, but yea huge issue if it lacks true 24 and is not actually DCI, but I figure that doesn't mater much if you chose to record ProRes RAW.
@@darrenorange2982 - This is crazy but the Rialto system does not actually record RAW on Venice 1, only 10 bit log.
@@daniellove162 that is completely false. You can record 16 bit RAW on the Venice 1 through the R7 via Rialto. And ProRes RAW is the most overrated codec around. You get way more practical use out of ProRes 4444 XQ.
@@Dlowreyjr01 - The production house I work at has 2 Venice 1s with the AXS-R7 backs. Show me documentation that the Rialta system can leverage the R7 back.
At Cinegear 2022 we had exclusive meetings with Sony execs. They talked about how in Top Gun 2 the RIALTA does NOT accommodate RAW.
Even the RED corporate was trashing the Rialta for not doing RAW.
Alot filmmaker's use this camera
Sony owns most of hollyweed. That's why.
Excellent observation.
Imagine a world where GoPro has PL mounts.
I feel like they used it mostly because the Alexa mini didn’t shoot 4k.
If that was the case why not use the Mini LF? Jake
Not a new concept. In 2009, Silicon Imaging introduced the SI-2K. A digital cinema camera with a detachable sensor block. Slumdog Millionaire was partially filmed on it.
We mention this in the video mate!
@@CVPTValso the Sony HKC-T1500 back in 2006.
@@CVPTVoh, also the F65 T-Head!
Not gonna lie, it was a little difficult to get excited about this system. I'd have to know more about how robust that cable system is.
Do I need a Venice? No. Am I now working out why I need a Venice? yes. Video calls are a good enough reason, right?
kinda ghostbusters
I love how they use plastic E lenses on high end camera 😃😃🤪😁😁😆
Is this the camera made for James Cameron?
Why am i watching this? I need to sleep.
DJI be like ✍✍✍
3/4" Used it first ; )
I think avatar 2 also used it
Almost as if Sony wants a pocket size cinema camera...
Avatar?
Yes, Avatar 2 was shot with two Venices with Rialtos mounted into a 3D rig.
Let’s be honest… The Sony Venice as far as I’m concerned does not look very good. The number one camera used by Hollywood is the Alexa. And more people use Red then the Venice.
No they don't, almost every major movies at Oscars are shot on arri
I don't get it. Sony has been obsessed with this tethering for years. I'd rather use something like a Komodo.
Or you could shoot on an FX3 and most wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. 😅
the fx3 wouldnt work at all, not only is the image difference alot when you start grading and doing vfx passover, the venice would allow for sdi output and the bigger body works alot better
Japanese technology
Made in nippon
DJI copied it
Your glasses are crooked.
I will have two please.