Right off the bat I would say that the worse designed raids are those where you have time wasting mechanics such as lanterns, or football (in Akkan g2) which put a direct hold on the swift reclear of the gate. Even after you overgear the raid by 100 ilvl you still have to spend 5m looking at cinematics and playing long ass mechanics. The other issue is that even if you zero down the boss HP it still keeps doing mechs and does not die like kakul G3 and that’s very annoying. If you spend enough time and money to reap the benefits of your increased stats then why can’t you just “ farm “ old fights? That was always the case up until Argos I believe. I remember popping atrophine potion while being overgeared in Alaric’s paradise and cut through most of the fight.. If you could deal enough dmg that’s it well done you skipped the mech or killed the boss altogether.
As bad as Brel 5/6 were it wasn’t needed for anything. But Theamine G3 hard is required and terribly brutal design along with transcendence taking a very long time without “gifts”. Clown G3 was also terrible for gimmicks, but was awesome for atmosphere. It seems like most raids I liked the community hates…but, I bet many agree with me although they likely all quit.
It is really interesting that the comparisons between Brel 5-6 and Thaemine G3 are even made. Both were a killer to a percentage of the community. A lot of people think it's good design ... but something that is well-designed wouldn't delete a portion of active players almost overnight. Can argue about what is and isn't good design, not really my point here, the point in which Fun should be the point of design, period and designing a raid, knowing it will kill off a significant amount of players is just irresponsible. At the very least, NM should not even be as difficult as it is (personally, didn't have issues with it) but nevertheless the completion rates are horrid. I quit due to just the lack of fun. Thaemine made me realize I was playing to complete the raids, there was no enjoyment. I don't think that is raid design but rather verticality, maybe? I made it through Brel 1-6's 6 times a week for a year but 1 Thaemine Hard G3 made me realize that my only goal every week was to check my daily boxes every day and complete raids every week. I don't blame Thaemine, particularly, I think it's a fine raid ... To me, it was more about the pacing and the never-ending verticality. But yeah, I think Thaemine G3 is a bit of a weird one. I don't think it is as hard as Brel 5-6 was, not by any means, but for some reason it seems to have had a much steeper impact to the community that Brel did.
@@saikame5833 Both may have been a killer of the community percentage, but looking back now G5-6 were not necessary for progression. They would speed up your progression, you could craft your gear faster. But at the end of the day even someone that did G1-4 would be gear-ready by Brel hard release. I completely agree with you on the design part. A good raid design is meant to attract players. Not to drive them away from your game. If players leave because of your raid, then you failed your raid design. Because that means people either can't clear it, or they can but they do not want to bother with the effort. What is supposed to be a fun experience, turns into a chore nightmare. SG made a worse Brelshaza out of Thaemine, despite admitting that Brelshaza was a failed raid design but since the raid was for some reason successful in Korea, they are not willing to admit it. And nobody cares that this raid has caused a player exodus in other regions. As someone who cleared G5-6 in first week, both on NM and HM, I beg to differ. G3 Thaemine, especially on HM is way harder. Barely cleared it in like the 3rd week or something and the time I invested in progging is several times more compared to G5-6 Brel. At the end of the day, after a month of Brel, I think more people cleared G5-6 than G3-4 Thaemine. I do not have the data to back this up, but I can bet that is the case. And even if less or the same amount of people cleared them, at the end of the day you were not forced to do as the vertical progression system was not locked behind G5-6. Many people did G1-4 and they were fine. Some people even did only G1-2 and they were still fine.
so from ilvl1540 to ilvl1610 apart from akkan g2 (hide lantern) and ivory g3 (pillars) nothing is good ? thaemine saved the game it seems so. what about echidna is it any good ?
People liking G3 kakul should be in an asylum. There is nothing good in the fight. When it came out, it was okay, mario was fun but Week 1 only. Everything else is just horribly bad. 90bars damage reduce is bad, marios are boring, there is fire everywhere on the map, not being able to walk in the middle of the map when mario starts is a pain. The curse (they removed it ? been a while i didnt see it) was dumb, showdown slow boring, bingo, fun once. There is no other raid i've been jailed in more than G3 clown the level of people getting hit by saws or not being able to press 2 buttons on mario is super sad. And imagine if there was no maxroll bingo, people would never clear it
I don't expect everything to be "S-tier" because not everything can be the best raid in the game. I'd rate gates on a simpler "trash" and "fun" scale. Trash: KayaG1, VoldisG1, ThaemineG1 Fun: Everything else Notice a pattern in all the trash gates? The bosses have a bunch of time wasters, boring mechanics, and non-stop teleport or have unfair un-telegraphed push attacks they throw randomly.
G3 ivory when he does the cheeto pillar he gets DR. I hate DR, that in itself drags the fight down, along with the 2 morons that can't ping at the start or count their pillar order.
Right off the bat I would say that the worse designed raids are those where you have time wasting mechanics such as lanterns, or football (in Akkan g2) which put a direct hold on the swift reclear of the gate. Even after you overgear the raid by 100 ilvl you still have to spend 5m looking at cinematics and playing long ass mechanics.
The other issue is that even if you zero down the boss HP it still keeps doing mechs and does not die like kakul G3 and that’s very annoying. If you spend enough time and money to reap the benefits of your increased stats then why can’t you just “ farm “ old fights?
That was always the case up until Argos I believe. I remember popping atrophine potion while being overgeared in Alaric’s paradise and cut through most of the fight..
If you could deal enough dmg that’s it well done you skipped the mech or killed the boss altogether.
As bad as Brel 5/6 were it wasn’t needed for anything. But Theamine G3 hard is required and terribly brutal design along with transcendence taking a very long time without “gifts”.
Clown G3 was also terrible for gimmicks, but was awesome for atmosphere. It seems like most raids I liked the community hates…but, I bet many agree with me although they likely all quit.
It is really interesting that the comparisons between Brel 5-6 and Thaemine G3 are even made. Both were a killer to a percentage of the community. A lot of people think it's good design ... but something that is well-designed wouldn't delete a portion of active players almost overnight. Can argue about what is and isn't good design, not really my point here, the point in which Fun should be the point of design, period and designing a raid, knowing it will kill off a significant amount of players is just irresponsible. At the very least, NM should not even be as difficult as it is (personally, didn't have issues with it) but nevertheless the completion rates are horrid.
I quit due to just the lack of fun. Thaemine made me realize I was playing to complete the raids, there was no enjoyment. I don't think that is raid design but rather verticality, maybe? I made it through Brel 1-6's 6 times a week for a year but 1 Thaemine Hard G3 made me realize that my only goal every week was to check my daily boxes every day and complete raids every week. I don't blame Thaemine, particularly, I think it's a fine raid ... To me, it was more about the pacing and the never-ending verticality.
But yeah, I think Thaemine G3 is a bit of a weird one. I don't think it is as hard as Brel 5-6 was, not by any means, but for some reason it seems to have had a much steeper impact to the community that Brel did.
@@saikame5833 Both may have been a killer of the community percentage, but looking back now G5-6 were not necessary for progression. They would speed up your progression, you could craft your gear faster. But at the end of the day even someone that did G1-4 would be gear-ready by Brel hard release.
I completely agree with you on the design part. A good raid design is meant to attract players. Not to drive them away from your game. If players leave because of your raid, then you failed your raid design. Because that means people either can't clear it, or they can but they do not want to bother with the effort. What is supposed to be a fun experience, turns into a chore nightmare. SG made a worse Brelshaza out of Thaemine, despite admitting that Brelshaza was a failed raid design but since the raid was for some reason successful in Korea, they are not willing to admit it. And nobody cares that this raid has caused a player exodus in other regions.
As someone who cleared G5-6 in first week, both on NM and HM, I beg to differ. G3 Thaemine, especially on HM is way harder. Barely cleared it in like the 3rd week or something and the time I invested in progging is several times more compared to G5-6 Brel. At the end of the day, after a month of Brel, I think more people cleared G5-6 than G3-4 Thaemine. I do not have the data to back this up, but I can bet that is the case. And even if less or the same amount of people cleared them, at the end of the day you were not forced to do as the vertical progression system was not locked behind G5-6. Many people did G1-4 and they were fine. Some people even did only G1-2 and they were still fine.
so from ilvl1540 to ilvl1610 apart from akkan g2 (hide lantern) and ivory g3 (pillars) nothing is good ? thaemine saved the game it seems so. what about echidna is it any good ?
They should have maid lantern as PVP mode and if someone dies that guy is added as zombie inside
People liking G3 kakul should be in an asylum. There is nothing good in the fight. When it came out, it was okay, mario was fun but Week 1 only. Everything else is just horribly bad. 90bars damage reduce is bad, marios are boring, there is fire everywhere on the map, not being able to walk in the middle of the map when mario starts is a pain. The curse (they removed it ? been a while i didnt see it) was dumb, showdown slow boring, bingo, fun once. There is no other raid i've been jailed in more than G3 clown the level of people getting hit by saws or not being able to press 2 buttons on mario is super sad. And imagine if there was no maxroll bingo, people would never clear it
I don't expect everything to be "S-tier" because not everything can be the best raid in the game. I'd rate gates on a simpler "trash" and "fun" scale.
Trash: KayaG1, VoldisG1, ThaemineG1
Fun: Everything else
Notice a pattern in all the trash gates? The bosses have a bunch of time wasters, boring mechanics, and non-stop teleport or have unfair un-telegraphed push attacks they throw randomly.
G3 ivory when he does the cheeto pillar he gets DR. I hate DR, that in itself drags the fight down, along with the 2 morons that can't ping at the start or count their pillar order.
On point!
The worst gate that was gladly removed is g1 Vykas its unhealthy on Ilvl and g1 brel so much wasting time
finally I am third to something
Finally I am second in something
Finally I am first in something 😂🎉🎉