G3 as a one time thing is A-S tier. As a homework, it is D tier. The worst designed content from a reclear perspective. Clash mechanic is one of the worst designs in any MMO. Time-waster, mega-punishing on not getting perfect, can even provoke a reset on fail. If you do not have good reaction time, GGs. Which is why I avoid doing it, unless it is clash 5 where I can sacrifice myself on fail as long as the rest are alive up until that point. Clash needs to be nerfed to give more reaction time for old farts like me. If Echidna would've come in global 6 months later than Thaemine, I would've chilled and do HHN. But since we get it 2 months after Thaemine, I have to reclear G3 HM multiple times to upgrade Transcendence. I guess this is what also kills the population in NA/EU, as the fast-paced content release incentivizes reclears for G3 HM.
Nobody wants to get flamed for wiping everyone in a game with such a toxic community.. It's actually really shitty too because if you end up doing a clash, your chances of getting MVP are drastically less.. The dps loss is so ridiculous and there are ppl who play for MVP too. Hell, bible is so bad for the game that it drives morons to hold skills and wipe hw runs by failing stagger checks and all sorts of much easier hw. I used to not give a shit, but once runs become hw status, you start to care more and more over time since you inherently care to see that you're getting better at the game over time. MVP chasers on top of the older hands people with slow reaction times.. basically nobody wants to do it. If you start asking before the lobby who is doing what clashes, you get radio silence like who is doing janitor in g3 akkan lol. Many people quit/ statics broke simply because of clash and this raid design direction. It just feels gimmicky and outlandish in a MMO raid.
@@supaaznjigga i actually think doing certain clashes helps you mvp, esp when its a mega juiced lobby like in nm. But i guess its subjective and dependent on how much you can make use of the buff.
@@supaaznjigga I personally do not care about MVPing in this game. I care about having fun raiding and finishing it. Bible is not bad, players are bad depending on how they choose to use it. There are people who use the Bible to improve themselves. There are people who use it to help others improve. And there are people who use it to flame others and be toxic. I have used it to kick some Baker types from the lobbies I made and some supports who were awful. But other than that, I try to help people with it where I see potential. I hope they do some reworks for clashes, make them braindead or something so that anyone can do them leisurely.
@@imtoooldtolive Realistically, you can't. Even the buffs that it gives you, you get them if you execute clash perfectly. And while those that weren't clashing can enjoy a burst window with the boss not moving, the one that clashes and got the buffs will have to contend with a mobile boss, where skills can miss, not hit positionally and time is wasted on intercepting the boss whenever he moves/teleports. It also depends on the class though. As an RS SF main, it is hard for me to get MVP either way, because my class has not received any buffs for almost a year, while other classes have reworked/buffed ever since. I need to play godly and others need to fuck up big time, especially the S and A tier classes for me to get MVP.
Ah the effect of a vocal minority, of course people have time / skill / static to learn and clear it will praise it , but it seems the poor clear rate reflect another reality.
That is because the vocal minority are more on the hardcore side. Genre wide, what is real good design, does not kill a population overnight. Good raid design is more than just catering to the masochistic side of gamers. Good raid design brings people in, is fun for the majority && has a hardcore element to keep the sweaty taints entertained. If it is designed in such a way that it's populace would rather quit than clear it, has a super low clear rate, etc ... then it's objectively a bad design. Period. These are standards in the MMO genre for 25+ years.
From my experience, the last counter for G2 - 8 Counters was the most frustrating. I failed it 3 times because my character refused to aim where my mouse was. The altered camera angle strikes again.
There are two main problems when fixed would make Thaemine much better imo. Biggest problem is how (and this is an overarching problem of progression design in Loa) transcendence works. In order to get the juicy level 7 you need to clear G3 HM... But G3 HM is too difficult for casual or even semi-hardcore players. Trans 7 however gives an exponentially great boost, same problem as gems have. The "last" level of these progression systems should just give a minor, 1-3% increase for the minmaxers instead of granting a huge boost. This meant the majority of players can still attain an ok damage boost without level 7... but that's not the case unfortunately. Second is how G2 is designed. G1 is easy enough but G2 with the wrong kind of people can also be unforgiving and frustrating. So if they had made G1-G2 "easy" level raids like Brel 1-2 for the casual playerbase and the ability to farm trans to lvl 6 without being too severely punished, then the difficulty of 3 and 4 would not matter that much since casuals could just stick to 1-2 and not be too far behind. Thaemine is supposed to be this badass OP leagion commander and I think that's why the difficulty of 3 and 4 are fine AND also not meant for everyone to clear. People who complain about it would be in the wrong IF the changes I mentioned would be implied.
i like your proposal to make g1/2 easier like Brel without locking progression so much, however this should be similar to the “nerf” version. Old Brel 1-2 with Prokel and also lock ancient gear to HM is also very annoying. I think a better solution is just make an easy mode for all the gates with less reward and keep HM the same. There is no point to just lock raid/ progression in a game tbh.
@@petetam7394 Dont know about that. An "easy" version of the hyped up legion commander would just not feel the narrative in my opinion. Sure, down the road when Thaemine is an old raid go ahead and nerf the crap out of it. Just like they rightfuly did with Brelshaza.
@@hubachecka G2 is an easy gate already, the main issue is the players with which you are playing. I got jailed yesterday in it not because the boss is too annoying and powerful, but people kept fucking up. They were fucking up the pool cleanse mechanic. Whenever I was luring a white orb to cleanse a pool, some Andy interrupted and triggered it. The Andy with lead kept fat fingering, using Thirain in 2nd platform rather than Azena, or not using Thirain for the last 2 mobs. People being pushed and falling pointlessly. And of course, not doing damage. You realize how bad things are when an RS SF and and Blue GL are the top DPS.
I can't get into any legion raids at all because I took a little break now I'm stuck on 2 gold until I can get my una's tokens please AMAZON PLEASE push solo content quicker. if they don't release it soon I'm shitting in the urinal at the warehouse I work at as a way of protesting.
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G3 as a one time thing is A-S tier. As a homework, it is D tier. The worst designed content from a reclear perspective. Clash mechanic is one of the worst designs in any MMO. Time-waster, mega-punishing on not getting perfect, can even provoke a reset on fail. If you do not have good reaction time, GGs. Which is why I avoid doing it, unless it is clash 5 where I can sacrifice myself on fail as long as the rest are alive up until that point. Clash needs to be nerfed to give more reaction time for old farts like me.
If Echidna would've come in global 6 months later than Thaemine, I would've chilled and do HHN. But since we get it 2 months after Thaemine, I have to reclear G3 HM multiple times to upgrade Transcendence. I guess this is what also kills the population in NA/EU, as the fast-paced content release incentivizes reclears for G3 HM.
Nobody wants to get flamed for wiping everyone in a game with such a toxic community.. It's actually really shitty too because if you end up doing a clash, your chances of getting MVP are drastically less.. The dps loss is so ridiculous and there are ppl who play for MVP too. Hell, bible is so bad for the game that it drives morons to hold skills and wipe hw runs by failing stagger checks and all sorts of much easier hw. I used to not give a shit, but once runs become hw status, you start to care more and more over time since you inherently care to see that you're getting better at the game over time. MVP chasers on top of the older hands people with slow reaction times.. basically nobody wants to do it. If you start asking before the lobby who is doing what clashes, you get radio silence like who is doing janitor in g3 akkan lol. Many people quit/ statics broke simply because of clash and this raid design direction. It just feels gimmicky and outlandish in a MMO raid.
With the event express you should easily get trans to 7 btw and even if you don't, Echidna doesn't need fully 7 trans.
@@supaaznjigga i actually think doing certain clashes helps you mvp, esp when its a mega juiced lobby like in nm. But i guess its subjective and dependent on how much you can make use of the buff.
@@supaaznjigga I personally do not care about MVPing in this game. I care about having fun raiding and finishing it. Bible is not bad, players are bad depending on how they choose to use it. There are people who use the Bible to improve themselves. There are people who use it to help others improve. And there are people who use it to flame others and be toxic. I have used it to kick some Baker types from the lobbies I made and some supports who were awful. But other than that, I try to help people with it where I see potential. I hope they do some reworks for clashes, make them braindead or something so that anyone can do them leisurely.
@@imtoooldtolive Realistically, you can't. Even the buffs that it gives you, you get them if you execute clash perfectly. And while those that weren't clashing can enjoy a burst window with the boss not moving, the one that clashes and got the buffs will have to contend with a mobile boss, where skills can miss, not hit positionally and time is wasted on intercepting the boss whenever he moves/teleports. It also depends on the class though. As an RS SF main, it is hard for me to get MVP either way, because my class has not received any buffs for almost a year, while other classes have reworked/buffed ever since. I need to play godly and others need to fuck up big time, especially the S and A tier classes for me to get MVP.
Ah the effect of a vocal minority, of course people have time / skill / static to learn and clear it will praise it , but it seems the poor clear rate reflect another reality.
That is because the vocal minority are more on the hardcore side. Genre wide, what is real good design, does not kill a population overnight. Good raid design is more than just catering to the masochistic side of gamers. Good raid design brings people in, is fun for the majority && has a hardcore element to keep the sweaty taints entertained. If it is designed in such a way that it's populace would rather quit than clear it, has a super low clear rate, etc ... then it's objectively a bad design. Period. These are standards in the MMO genre for 25+ years.
I stopped doing Brel cause no prokel, what's the point
lol
From my experience, the last counter for G2 - 8 Counters was the most frustrating. I failed it 3 times because my character refused to aim where my mouse was. The altered camera angle strikes again.
Yep! Terrible design for mandatory counters. It is asking for resets.
Skill issue, never failed a counter since release of the raid
If you failed 3 times that's an issue with you. It's a pretty easy mechanic.
There are two main problems when fixed would make Thaemine much better imo.
Biggest problem is how (and this is an overarching problem of progression design in Loa) transcendence works. In order to get the juicy level 7 you need to clear G3 HM... But G3 HM is too difficult for casual or even semi-hardcore players. Trans 7 however gives an exponentially great boost, same problem as gems have. The "last" level of these progression systems should just give a minor, 1-3% increase for the minmaxers instead of granting a huge boost. This meant the majority of players can still attain an ok damage boost without level 7... but that's not the case unfortunately.
Second is how G2 is designed. G1 is easy enough but G2 with the wrong kind of people can also be unforgiving and frustrating.
So if they had made G1-G2 "easy" level raids like Brel 1-2 for the casual playerbase and the ability to farm trans to lvl 6 without being too severely punished, then the difficulty of 3 and 4 would not matter that much since casuals could just stick to 1-2 and not be too far behind.
Thaemine is supposed to be this badass OP leagion commander and I think that's why the difficulty of 3 and 4 are fine AND also not meant for everyone to clear. People who complain about it would be in the wrong IF the changes I mentioned would be implied.
Ah and make G3 biweekly, why not?
i like your proposal to make g1/2 easier like Brel without locking progression so much, however this should be similar to the “nerf” version. Old Brel 1-2 with Prokel and also lock ancient gear to HM is also very annoying.
I think a better solution is just make an easy mode for all the gates with less reward and keep HM the same. There is no point to just lock raid/ progression in a game tbh.
@@petetam7394 Dont know about that. An "easy" version of the hyped up legion commander would just not feel the narrative in my opinion. Sure, down the road when Thaemine is an old raid go ahead and nerf the crap out of it. Just like they rightfuly did with Brelshaza.
No, the difficulty isn't fine if it kicks many players out of the game. If you want a challenge, leave it as a hell mode raid for the tryhard players.
@@hubachecka G2 is an easy gate already, the main issue is the players with which you are playing. I got jailed yesterday in it not because the boss is too annoying and powerful, but people kept fucking up. They were fucking up the pool cleanse mechanic. Whenever I was luring a white orb to cleanse a pool, some Andy interrupted and triggered it. The Andy with lead kept fat fingering, using Thirain in 2nd platform rather than Azena, or not using Thirain for the last 2 mobs. People being pushed and falling pointlessly. And of course, not doing damage. You realize how bad things are when an RS SF and and Blue GL are the top DPS.
that raid is nothing but filler mechs to take you away from the boss thats it. nothing else just fillers to make it "harder"
I can't get into any legion raids at all because I took a little break now I'm stuck on 2 gold until I can get my una's tokens please AMAZON PLEASE push solo content quicker.
if they don't release it soon I'm shitting in the urinal at the warehouse I work at as a way of protesting.
G3 is F-tier. Shittiest gate ever designed for reclears. Data speaks for itself. 16% clear rate 6 weeks in lmao
looks like we found a part of the 84%
Honestly reclear has been pretty easy. People are starting to get comfortable. I just wish they would get rid of gate 1 and 2.
@@jlee9360 if they remove gate 1 and 2, only you and your friends will play this game.
G3 easy D tier. Thank god they brought this raid so i can finally work on my backlog of games.
lul the game just deserve to lose the moment they decided that the current thaemine design is a good idea...
Thamine 1 and 2 are disgusting, but g3 Chefs kiss
Really???? No Shitte Sherlock