I am. In my early teen years I converted to Protestantism from Catholicism because I was naive and impetuous. It was when I read the Bible and Church fathers and learned of the history of the Church that I realized that I had made a terrible mistake, and I came back to the blessed Sacrament and the blessed Faith which we both share. God bless you
I was a reformed protestant, and I also found the TREU church of Christ.Best thing happend to me. It is the best way to get close to God. God bless Orthodoxy!
I once asked an orthodox priest if orthodox Eucharists were Consubstantiatial or transubstantiatial, he said "neither". He described it as a mystery. It's like a burning coal; you can't tell if it it's burning or if it's dead, it's just a mystery. This is an amazing faith, thank you for posting this!
Mikhail! I want to thank you so much for posting this series. For the past decade I've been reading books and praying about my spiritual path. I am a former Evangelical. I recently became a Catechumen at a local Greek Orthodox Church here in Los Angeles. I wasn't 100% sure if I was going to convert...but I think this video was the confirmation that I needed to believe what I was doing was right. I have found the TRUE Church of Christ. God bless you and Thank you again. Christ is in our midst!!
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
If someone is curious and very interested about confession, and truly finds something in confession worthy of your 100% focus. Reading books and lecturing on it will in the end not make you to confess much easier. We all know that the reality and experience of the confession is what will produce conviction in the heart. I stumbled a lot upon the church of Christ, untill I one day decided to go "all in" without any conviction, just run in and stay quiet there! I promise you I came out convicted.
Thank you Ioan, I would love to go to Mount Athos and certainly the Church (Orthodoxy) is welcoming and only God can judge so I work my salvation out with fear and trembling. The charity of the Orthodox Church is beyond compare. God bless you Ioan Pena.
Falling and getting up takes much faith don't judge or you will be judged so worry about your own SOUL MY BROTHER don't know where his @ in his faith non of my business. Christ's church does NOT need you or I!!! or Luther CHRISTS ' CHURCH DOESN'T NEED REFORMATION SO READ THE LIVES OF APOSTLES MARTYRS SAINTS PIOUS LAY and of course the old and new testament you cannot reform GOD !!!!
Your basically saying orthodox brought him to his current belief and peter denied an eyewitness to the Lord orthodox is the 1 holy and apostolic church the only true Church you as Christian is non of my business your a better Christian then ill ever be the point is true Church and being Christian DISCERN my friend
The story he tells at 44:36 explains why I have felt lacking in all the denominations I have been. Everybody has re-arranged the jewels claiming that their new mosaic is authentic. This has exhausted me. I am glad I found the Orthodox videos I have been watching for the last week or two. It finally makes sense. I think I will be entering the church for the first time this week. 6/24/19
As a former atheist coming to Christ and his beautiful living orthodox church I admire you dear brother for your honesty and openness. My sincere advice to you, truly brother, from the bottom of my heart, is that you experience the church rather than to quote on quote "study" it. It will strengthen you in many ways and I think that this example might explain the mystery of the blessed church.
Ha! Of course! This week I've been fasting Facebook, and God has shown me the purity of His love. And yes, I had to sit and stay quiet without any distractions and focus on God. I even came across Philippians 1 which deals with intelligent love. It's not just sentimental gush that we're supposed to feel. It's pure, intelligent, overflowing and satisfying.
Well God Bless you! Right above your head there is a long post that I believe will help you decide if that's where you belong, and the fact that you are "seeking it out" by asking is your soul crying "this is what we need! The physical results of standing for 2,3, or if you are among "Old Believers" ( a really hard core parish of Russians only, and it will seem odd but if you don't belong there, they will "help you out the door" one way or another) you will stand for 5 hours. All these rigors fall under the heading of "Good works" and in this light "Faith without works is dead" become clearer. Also, I finally discovered Orthodoxy, which sometimes is referred to as "the best kept secret in Christianity", and I certainly never heard of it until one day in the library when I found a book with the intriguing title ("Orthodox" literally means "correct doctrine" which I think is pretty cool don't you?) "The Soul After Death" by Father Seraphim Rose. I'm thinking "What's dis guy, Catlick or sumpin ( forgive my Queens accent lol...Sorry, kidding. I like to inject some humor to lighten the convo when it's heavy and I think this convo qualifies.) So I flip it over and it says he's a monk of the Russian Orthodox Church. Now this book is seriously heavy, and Father has told me often NOT to recommend THAT book to newbies cos it'll scare them away. My response is "but Father, it is the book that brought me here to Orthodoxy, how can I keep that a secret? It will seem radical because NOTHING is more radical than the TRUTH in a world run by the father of lies. ☦️☦️☦️
Thank you, you're the nicest person on the Orthodox side so far! Well the "national history" needs to be done away with... Not forgotten... Celebration with music, dancing, banner waving, and exuberant expression is the best way to celebrate your salvation! And if you want I can back up ALL of this with scripture! EVERY LAST ONE!
Good point you make my dear friend, I would recommend this FAQ article that helped me on the same issue. As a starting orthodox i went in with the same conclusion, without considering each factor to why iconography is being used. Please take some time to atleast read the article, then you can vote for yourself afterwards
In any case I admire your honesty, would you please pray for me dear brother that the Lord would in every second grant me that kind of gift which you inspired me with!
Very interesting testimony. Deep thanks! One thought ... I am sure had Frank been digging a little deeper and in his search had past the orthodox Greek Church and may have reached some of the understanding that Moses and all the Prophets got from God - then he may have found the original view of God.
@@HS-pz3sq ....... This is my 3rd attempt to answer you Brother. I’m thinking the ADMINISTRATOR keeps deleting & censoring the answer to your question. th-cam.com/video/-33BUmx91BE/w-d-xo.html
Can someone list the names of all the elders books he mentioned. I'm exactly in his shoes now... Baptist who feels lots of things are wrong in my church and doctrine. I need to read what he read... I'm so thirsty for knowledge.
Baptist too brother I just discovered eastern orthodoxy (the best kept christian secret) last month look up the channel orthodox wisdom he reads the patristic father's and it is truly eye opening and with us both being baptist I think you'll find it to be too brother God bless you brother
FYI: Mr. Shaeffer vigorously and vociferously proclaims his own responsibility for the weirdness in our politics today, as on 2024. He is easily found on any search engine and you can learn how he believes his own, self professed, religion was used against him and all of us. His many years of insider knowledge can teach us all to recognize what is false and what is not.
I was very involved in Full Gospel circles for ten years. We do have a few Orthodox priests who speak in tongues behind the alter (Antioch converts). Those of us who can speak in tongues follow Paul's advise to keep it out of the Church services. Speaking in tongues has always been a controversial issue in the Orthodox Church. St. John Chrysostom (347-407 AD) wrote of it. Most people don't do it, but we do not condemn the practice and our people are free to pray in that manner.
I came form a protestant fundamentalist background and although I am yet to officially converted, I feel I am ready to accept orthodox Christianity. I like the faith because not it "separate the infidels form fatih" but "accepts those who are no infidels"
That is exactly how they worshipped in the OT & NT. Praising the Lord with spiritual songs, hymns, etc. They didn't dance,shout and jump around. There exists a respect, a reverence to God when people gather for worship.
As you point out, the key for us ancient Orthodox Catholic Christians is that we have maintained the most ancient presuppositions - since our Church wrote, compiled, and canonized the Bible! Unlike Protestants, we understand what the Bible means because we have the active fullness of the Holy Spirit guiding us and because we have maintained the universal truth of interpretation for 2000 years! We maintain "that which has been believe by all, everywhere, and at all times"! Christ is risen!
These experiences in charismatic circles are actual experiences of God's presence. It includes His love, joy, peace & power. I have been in meetings where there was good music but no presence.There is a big difference. When I pray for non-Christians for healing I ask them did you feel something on that area of your body? Did you feel some warm/heat or electric sensation (the power of God) on that part of the body & we go from there, because sometime (not all the time) healing comes progressively
@TheWorldCitizen1 - Your answers are right in the Bible 1)images-Exodus 25:18-19, Numbers 21:8-9, 1 Kings 6:23-29, 1 Kings 7:25-45 2)Intercessory prayer of saints/Veneration of Saints--Joshua 5:16, Daniel 8:17, Mark 9:4, Rev. 6:9-11, Hebrews 12:1, Rev. 20:4, Romans 8:35-39 3)Mary--Luke 1:48 4) Kiss hands-Hebrews 13:17
It has been a while since I have been close to Full-Gospel Christianity. However, 20 years ago, there were a lot of RC who spoke in tongues. The speaking in tongues, etc. has been back in vogue for about 125 years now. These waves of Christian expression come and go. That does not mean there a bad thing, just a transitory thing. There will be something new in Christianity tomorrow. People will be excited about it. However, Orthodox will be the same tomorrow as it is today and was in 33AD.
On Amy Goodman’s program Democracy Now, Frank Schaeffer went so far as to describe Michelle Bachman’s adherence to what his father Francis Schaeffer articulated as “bronze age mythology including its misogyny, its homophobia, its racism…”
True! However, Psalms 42:11 "Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me? Hope in God; for I shall again PRAISE him, my salvation and my God." Psalms 40:1-3 "I waited patiently for the LORD; he inclined to me and heard my cry. He drew me UP from the pit of destruction, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure. He put a new SONG in my mouth, a SONG of PRAISE to our God. Many will see and fear, and put their trust in the LORD." Amen!!! ;)
Oh dear. I am not sure I found your particular plan. I will check it out if you can help me find it. FYI, the Orthodox Church reads the Scripture all year long. If you only go on Sundays, you miss a lot of it. But, if you can go to all the services, you hear almost everything over the course of a year.
Not exactly because the Orthodox church is not in full communion with the oriental church, but I am also grouping different denominations together. These protestant denominations are though united by protestant ideas like sola fide, sola scriptura, sola gratia. They are even united by evangelicalism and increasingly by the charismatic movement.
3. Being non-charismatic. The most dangerous thing is to assume that you have some super-natural powers because of your Christian beliefs. Holy Orthodox monks could be prophets, seers and such but it takes decades of Saint-like lifestyle to reach that height of consciousness! They pray, they purify their hearts from any negative thinking, they fast, they abandon all life's pleasures. Do modern Protestants do that? No, but some of them claim they are filled with Holy spirit! Who is to judge?
1. In some places the DSS did side with the Septuagint, but in the great Isaiah scroll it sides I think more with the Masoretic. For example in the DSS Isaiah 53 reads much closer to the Masoretic than it does for the Septuagint. There are scriptures in other places that read better in the masoretic. 2.Hebrew and Arabic are semitic languages and share a whoe lot in common. After taking a coarse in Arabic in college and with my knowledge of Hebrew I was able to read some of the Koran for myself.
The only issue I've found we disagree on is purgatory. I've heard conflicting things on the orthodox position. Is it believed to be heretical or an issue where each believer can have their own opinion without being a heretic (similar to Thomism/Molonism in the Catholic Church)
And please note that Purgatory has never been referred to by the Church as a place of fire, the fire motif has merely been a development in the artistic representation of purgatory, not theological.
Yes it is. The Orthodox church may not be the only church "doing God's work and singing His praises" but it is the first such church to do so. It is from the Greeks that you have the bibles both old and new to read for yourself. The only pride here is pride of place.
As James 1:27 reads: "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." This could be interpreted, love those and guide those who are lost and have lost loved ones. Religion even on the protestant side can be exhausting spiritually... But when you look at Jesus and not the outside appearance, it's so freeing. Jesus is who saved me, not a church, nor a religion.
In reference to the perceived drunkenness of Pentecost the people understood them. They said "how is it we understand them ..." so they did appear to be odd. There are two verses that talk about being overwhelmed by His presence 2 Chron. 5:14 and Rev. 1:17. Whats wrong with laughing and crying? Is there not fullness of joy in His presence (Pslm16:11)? Does He not cause us to laugh (Pslm 126:2)? Are there not tears of repentance (Zechariah 12:10)? And there are tears of joy of course.
There has been information, it just hasn't been written by the Orthodox. It appears as though we Catholics have a different theology from the Orthodox, but to quote Thomas Aquinas "Many things which sound well enough in Greek do not perhaps sound well in Latin. Hence, Latins and Greeks professing the same faith do so using different words."
3. He slams us for experience warmth on or in our bodies. Did He not manifest as fire and is He not a consuming fire? He slams laying on of hands as if it were not biblical and one who is filled with the Spirit for praying for another by contact to receive the Spirit. He quotes Joel but slams the idea that everyone can have this experiences. He slams the meetings that are lively and "disorderly " but remember what is said “These people are not drunk, as some of you are assuming (Acts 2)”
"I have the Holy Spirit to guide me through the scriptures." Unfortunately many christians think like that, and thats' why there're about 30'000 denominations in protestantism. Remember John 14.21/23 - you've to keep the commandments completely of our Lord so that may have full communion with our Lord. Faith without deeds are dead. Apostle Peter even admit that the letters of Paul are difficult to understand. Have you ever read the Apostolic fathers?
I try to tell my mom why I want to become orthodox and she says whats wrong with our church. I dont know how to answer and when I do she doesnt get it. How can I tell her I found the more excellent way?
The Orthodox Church is the one true Church of Christ simply because it has never changed the faith and doctrines once delivered by the Apostles. That's why the Lord still confirms His presence in it through signs and wonders [Mark 16:20].
I pray to God for them & He answers. Does someone else answer in His stead? Does some else glorify His name before the lost? Before Muslims in Mozambique (Iris Ministries)? The question is does the gospel extend past Christ's incarnate, His death & resurrection for our sins (1 Cor.2:2)? Is faith in Christ, His gospel and walking in love enough or do we need more to be His? Does repentance and faith justify us before God or do we need more? If we have Christ we have the Father and His Spirit.
He raises some good points. I am a charismatic nondenominational christian and hate seeing all the different churches on a single street and the different churches being found at someone's whim. I find the ideal of apostolic succession and this kind accountability an awesome ideal, but I do not like some of the things in the orthodox church. These would include being non-charismatic (not have fellowship w/God presence), veneration of the saints and the lack of evangelism in the orthodox church.
But he still speaks with a evangelical tone and manner. Converts bring with themselves a different flavour to orthodoxy. He shows a lot of dualism in his conversations. In one interview he said that he will rather talk to an orthodox jew than to anyone else and now he claims to be an atheist.
"Religious obligations"? Did I mention that I was Orthodox? We don't have "religious obligations." Jesus said that his mission was to establish a Church. He never said anything about freeing us from "religious obligations." God is love. God became man, so that man could become more like God. Love is a good first step.
Did you read this Church history in the original Greek language of the Church fathers (that includes the Gospel writers)? Or is it your view that if English was good enough for Jesus it is good enough for you?
1. Prophecy is judge to be true when it does not contradict scripture. Like one can't prophecy new scripture or doctrine because" the faith has been once for all delivered to the saints." Prophecy is usually foretelling of things to come in one's life or the church or something like "God is calling you to be a missionary." 2. Tradition is okay but what about when tradition contradicts scripture or leaves certain things behind like prophesy in the church (which continued to Origen's day).
As a Catholic, I am about fed up with all of the insults from the Eastern Orthodox--Ecumenism has been mostly a dead end for Catholics, although no deader end than Ecumenism with Judaism.
Ecumenism via pluralism is a religion of modern man. It is a modern tower of babel against the Holy Spirit and this is why it keeps falling down and collapsing.
Indeed. Ecumenism is a heresy. A pan-heresy as a matter of fact. It is the heresy of heresies. Combining truth and falsehood. We have no communion with the ecumenists
I don't mean Greek as in "Greeks" I mean Greek as in civilizational the way the western Church is the "Latin" rite, etc. I know this is in the USA and this confuses the heck out of people. Whatever errors are in the church they are based on the logical assumption that those closest to the source in place, language and history have it more correct than those removed by both geography, time and language.
Barbara made a wonderful comment. I always thought of the Church as the body of people united with Christ, as a living organism. He is the head and His people are the body. Western Christianity tends to be more incarnational which we really need today. God is involved in the world to the point we can say in Christ God became man. Eastern Orthodoxy tends to be more trinitarian in its approach. We both have big weaknesses and great strengths and we need humility with a sense where Jesus Himself is the head and we are members in His body, granted the honor of sharing in His life with the Father not in our own strength (as Luther realized) but in the power of God s own Spirit. All I know is I am thankful to be part of His body, and all the church politicking and cruel bashing from some members of these different Christian churches is depressing.
Interesting views about Eastern Orthodox church, I never heard the Orthodox church preaching anti-semitism, they always preached that they were the chosen people of God. As far as the celebration the shofar, and the tambourine that was a long time ago, a joyous time awaiting for the Messiah. Messiah came and instead of continued to be celebrated He was crucified that explains the mourning of the Orthodox (see black robes). The church is open for anyone who wishes to accept Jesus as the Messiah.
Actually what is going on in 4 Kingdoms 18:4 is "The Spiritual reality of the bronze serpent made by Moses in Nm 21:9 is lost and its meaning worthless".
I do not understand your question. St. John's baptism was an adaptation of the mikvah or ritual immersion, that had been a part of Jewish life for generations. St. John was baptized in this way.
As far as I understand, the Orthodox Church doesn’t: -recognise papal infallibility but does recognise the bishop of Rome as first among equals. -doesn’t recognise the Immaculate Conception of Mary but does recognise her as being full of grace, the Ark of the New Covenant, the New Eve, and Queen of Heaven. -doesn’t recognise the Catholic definition of purgatory but does recognise that prayers are useful for the dead. -doesn’t recognise the Catholic understanding of Original Sin (which is that, while everyone bears the consequences of the first sin - chiefly death - everyone also bears the guilt for that sin) *Although I believe the Catholic Church officially teaches that Original Sin is our inherited state of deprived original holiness and not Adam and Eve’s personal guilt, which would indicate the Orthodox Church has misunderstood the Catholic position here. -doesn’t recognise the Catholic addition of the Filoque clause (that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son equally) but is open to the definition that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father primarily and the son secondarily. Or am I wrong here? -doesn’t recognise the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation but does recognise the Eucharist as the actual body and blood of Christ and not as a mere symbol.
This Frank Shaeffer is a nice guy; I still don't get it why Os Guiness called him a "brat"... Sad, that some evangelicals would hate on someone because that person changed his/her religious standing.
Do you believe scripture is clear? Do you believe that Christ in the gospels covered all the bases? Do you believe the written Gospels came down to us from the Apostles to be the ground and pillar of our faith? Does Paul fail to present the gospel to Galatians or Romans? Does Luke succeed in communicating to Theophilus (or the Church) an orderly account of Christ, His life and message so that Theophilus may know with certainty the things that have been taught?
I once saw a comment on a TH-cam post somewhere, that referred to the founders of the Protestant Church as rebellious priests of the Catholic Church. Wisdom. Were they not rebellious priests of the Catholic Church? The answer is that of course they were. Regardless of how bad the situation might have been in the Catholic Church, to rebel against it amounts to heresy, does it not? The answer is that of course it does. Humility stays in the Catholic Church, pride leaves it, and pride is a sin.
I was nowhere Istanbul Wayne. I was in Bodrum, which is on the Aegean,. you can reach Kos in Greece by taking a short ferry trip. I have heard of the ruins you mention yes. There are many things older than the pyramids, we have plenty of things older than them in Ireland for example, as do many other nations. Americans are sometimes called septic tanks in rhyming slang in the UK you might like to note. I am sure the RUSSIANS could not care less what you call them ultimately of course.
The Orthodox through what I think is called "economy" (used in the Greek sense not to mean economics but household) allow mercy to a married couple to use contraception in limited circumstances after consulting with a priest. I read that a long time ago so my details are hazy.
Most Orthodox Nations have to bare the sorrow which is tied to both their history and religion and can't help express any other way. Since the time of the Apostoles (persecution) till now nothing has changed for them. To speak musically if you wish: Music is expressed many ways: Major Scale (happy), Minor scale (sad), or others: Phrygian(Glorious), Dorian(Dark), Pentatonic/Blues (Sad), etc.. but Orthodox best express themselves with the Byzantine Scale. There is the right season for everything
NT was written by Apostles, not written down later, NT was there from the start, see Irenaeus and Clement and others quote them.councils just defended the received identity of and boundaries of canon of Scripture.
Mount Athos is a testament to the truth of Orthodoxy! I would feel so unworthy to even step on its grounds...I came from a Roman Catholic home and went to Seminary and was a monastic (Uniate). I am now a Catechumen of an Old Calender Orthodox church. Deo Gratias! I am home.
@@Mishakol1290 Thanks Michael! I should have realized it was that one. I have read a couple parts of it but not all of it. I am now at the 52 minute mark and loving it.
Well that's all good that you read the Bible, PRAISE THE LORD that you do! HOWEVER, I've been trying to tell people this, and they think I'm an idiot for doing/thinking this... But when I visited an Orthodox church, I did not feel free in the Spirit to praise the Lord the way I felt led in the Spirit, i.e. raising my hands, praying in the Spirit (tongues), and/or dancing... And there were no people saying testimonies or prophecies... It was just liturgy, chanting, somewhat of a sermon...END.
HA! It's very nice to know that YOU out of billions know so much... Ephesians 5:19 (KJV) "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;" The Amplified Bible says this "Speak out to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, offering praise with voices [and instruments] and making melody with all your heart to the Lord," I rest my case.
Like I told Hans S Protestants share four Solas. Many different branches of Protestantism go to the same conferences and buy the same books. There is a certain level of agreement. The Word of God forces us to arrive at certain truths. We are trinitians. We are saved by faith alone to good works & service to Christ. We obey the gospels being Baptized into Christ, His death, burial and life and covenant. In the Lord's Supper we remember & partake of His blood and body thru the bread and wine.
Orthodoxy is a living and breathing faith. Part of that faith was written down. The Church took 27 books of the written down portion of Orthodox faith and declared it to be the New Testament and to be Canon. So, if you trust the NT to be correct, you should most certainly trust the entire Orthodox Church. BTW, 2 Tim. 3:16 ONLY refers the OT, as there was no NT in those days.
In the early church it was the Oral Tradition handed down by the Apostles. The early church depended on Oral Tradition entirely for its knowledge of the Christian faith. All Protestants seek to understand the BIble while ignoring Church Tradition. Each Protestant group believes that their group has rightly understood the BIble, while dismissing Church Tradition. There exists no central authority.
There is no hatred only dialogue. I dont hate Hans S and I am sure he does not hates me but we can disagree. These types of conversations are to get us to think and evaluate what we believe and why we believe it.
Does anyone know what year this was filmed? Looks like the 80s. Schaeffer seems to have drifted a little in his thinking since his father died in 84. I hear him more vocally in politics than theology, which doesn't seem very Orthodox to me.
Cool. Just wondering if you are EO? I am a Protestant but I think we can definitely learn some things from the EO church. He no doubt makes good points and if anything much of what he spoke of is even worse now as 18 years have passed since this lecture.
+thapack45, I am not EO - at least not yet. My wife and I have been reading and praying through things. Both of us have always found the existence of denominations unsettling, but have not known how to ask why they exist and if it is what Christ originally intended when he established himself as the head of the Church. My thought was simply "well, denominations exist and there's nothing we can do about it so we might as well 'choose one' to be a part of. We both grew up Baptist and are now attending an Independent Methodist Church (whose pastor is admittedly "a reluctant Protestant"). If you're much of a reader and are interested in doing some further thinking: you should take a look at Roger Olson's "Story of Christian Theology", Dennis Kinlaw's "Let's Start with Jesus", and John Zizioulas' "Being as Communion". Those books - though only one written by an EO - opened my eyes to the rich and forgotten tradition lacking in Protestantism, starting with the nature of human personhood.
1. Please answer the question I have posted twice already. 2. Its all in the word. "For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." John 8:24 We must believe that He is the I Am who was talking to Moses at the burning bush. Arius blasphemed by saying the Word was a creature that should be worshiped as God even though He was not. Not understanding that only God is to be worshiped and God (the Word) does not come into being. Nestorians are severely confused.
![[TH] VCT Pacific Stage 2 - Playoffs Day 3 // DRX vs GEN | PRX vs TLN](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CWM1Q-2-o3M/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m visiting an Orthodox Church this weekend for my first time. I’m so excited. ❤️
And what's your perspective today
So how do you feel about the orthodox Church
Frank found the true historic church and then lost his way. Pray he may return.
I am. In my early teen years I converted to Protestantism from Catholicism because I was naive and impetuous. It was when I read the Bible and Church fathers and learned of the history of the Church that I realized that I had made a terrible mistake, and I came back to the blessed Sacrament and the blessed Faith which we both share. God bless you
I was a reformed protestant, and I also found the TREU church of Christ.Best thing happend to me. It is the best way to get close to God. God bless Orthodoxy!
Thank you for posting this excellent lecture!
I once asked an orthodox priest if orthodox Eucharists were Consubstantiatial or transubstantiatial, he said "neither". He described it as a mystery. It's like a burning coal; you can't tell if it it's burning or if it's dead, it's just a mystery. This is an amazing faith, thank you for posting this!
Very interesting way to explain the faith! God bless that Priest!
@@Gregori-mi2vy8nc6y Thank you for replying to my nine year old comment!
@@89Awww is that good or bad?
@@89Awww I had a hunch that you would respond after nine years 🙂
@@Gregori-mi2vy8nc6y It's great! Thanks again 😊
What a wonderful blessing brother Michael :) Welcome home to the church of the Lord!
Mikhail! I want to thank you so much for posting this series. For the past decade I've been reading books and praying about my spiritual path. I am a former Evangelical. I recently became a Catechumen at a local Greek Orthodox Church here in Los Angeles. I wasn't 100% sure if I was going to convert...but I think this video was the confirmation that I needed to believe what I was doing was right. I have found the TRUE Church of Christ. God bless you and Thank you again. Christ is in our midst!!
It's Great testimony!!! "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." John 8:32
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
What a great Vid! Thanx for uploading, it explains true Faith thoroughly.
very good speaker ,great knowledge about church history and great expose of todays evangelical crazy church
If someone is curious and very interested about confession, and truly finds something in confession worthy of your 100% focus. Reading books and lecturing on it will in the end not make you to confess much easier. We all know that the reality and experience of the confession is what will produce conviction in the heart. I stumbled a lot upon the church of Christ, untill I one day decided to go "all in" without any conviction, just run in and stay quiet there! I promise you I came out convicted.
Thank you Ioan, I would love to go to Mount Athos and certainly the Church (Orthodoxy) is welcoming and only God can judge so I work my salvation out with fear and trembling. The charity of the Orthodox Church is beyond compare. God bless you Ioan Pena.
It’s so sad to see how far this man has fallen..Praying that he’ll come to himself and return to the faith.
Falling and getting up takes much faith don't judge or you will be judged so worry about your own SOUL MY BROTHER don't know where his @ in his faith non of my business. Christ's church does NOT need you or I!!! or Luther CHRISTS ' CHURCH DOESN'T NEED REFORMATION SO READ THE LIVES OF APOSTLES MARTYRS SAINTS PIOUS LAY and of course the old and new testament you cannot reform GOD !!!!
@@3aldog Go leave paragraphs on someone else’s comments..You do realize he’s an atheist now? Is it not right to pray that he’s restored to the faith?
Till the 11th hour only god knows the heart ill comment like you did please forgive me if I offended you
Your basically saying orthodox brought him to his current belief and peter denied an eyewitness to the Lord orthodox is the 1 holy and apostolic church the only true Church you as Christian is non of my business your a better Christian then ill ever be the point is true Church and being Christian DISCERN my friend
@@AZSETX What happened to him?
The story he tells at 44:36 explains why I have felt lacking in all the denominations I have been. Everybody has re-arranged the jewels claiming that their new mosaic is authentic. This has exhausted me. I am glad I found the Orthodox videos I have been watching for the last week or two. It finally makes sense. I think I will be entering the church for the first time this week. 6/24/19
Glory to God!
Rice, how are things now?
1 Timothy 3:15, "the church is the pillar of truth." Go get 'em Shaeffer.
As a former atheist coming to Christ and his beautiful living orthodox church I admire you dear brother for your honesty and openness. My sincere advice to you, truly brother, from the bottom of my heart, is that you experience the church rather than to quote on quote "study" it. It will strengthen you in many ways and I think that this example might explain the mystery of the blessed church.
Ha! Of course! This week I've been fasting Facebook, and God has shown me the purity of His love. And yes, I had to sit and stay quiet without any distractions and focus on God. I even came across Philippians 1 which deals with intelligent love. It's not just sentimental gush that we're supposed to feel. It's pure, intelligent, overflowing and satisfying.
Frank Shaeffer is the man in this lecture! A gifted speaker!
Mikhail Kolitwenzew you must become the new Frank Schaeffer :) !
Hi, I would like to know more about the Orthodox Church
Try OrthodoxInfo.com
Well God Bless you! Right above your head there is a long post that I believe will help you decide if that's where you belong, and the fact that you are "seeking it out" by asking is your soul crying "this is what we need! The physical results of standing for 2,3, or if you are among "Old Believers" ( a really hard core parish of Russians only, and it will seem odd but if you don't belong there, they will "help you out the door" one way or another) you will stand for 5 hours. All these rigors fall under the heading of "Good works" and in this light "Faith without works is dead" become clearer. Also, I finally discovered Orthodoxy, which sometimes is referred to as "the best kept secret in Christianity", and I certainly never heard of it until one day in the library when I found a book with the intriguing title ("Orthodox" literally means "correct doctrine" which I think is pretty cool don't you?) "The Soul After Death" by Father Seraphim Rose. I'm thinking "What's dis guy, Catlick or sumpin ( forgive my Queens accent lol...Sorry, kidding. I like to inject some humor to lighten the convo when it's heavy and I think this convo qualifies.) So I flip it over and it says he's a monk of the Russian Orthodox Church. Now this book is seriously heavy, and Father has told me often NOT to recommend THAT book to newbies cos it'll scare them away. My response is "but Father, it is the book that brought me here to Orthodoxy, how can I keep that a secret? It will seem radical because NOTHING is more radical than the TRUTH in a world run by the father of lies. ☦️☦️☦️
@Braylen Pierce stfu dude
Amen brother!
Merry Christmas!
Peace and love bro possess it!
very good video
Thank you, you're the nicest person on the Orthodox side so far! Well the "national history" needs to be done away with... Not forgotten... Celebration with music, dancing, banner waving, and exuberant expression is the best way to celebrate your salvation! And if you want I can back up ALL of this with scripture! EVERY LAST ONE!
God bless you too !
Good point you make my dear friend, I would recommend this FAQ article that helped me on the same issue. As a starting orthodox i went in with the same conclusion, without considering each factor to why iconography is being used. Please take some time to atleast read the article, then you can vote for yourself afterwards
In any case I admire your honesty, would you please pray for me dear brother that the Lord would in every second grant me that kind of gift which you inspired me with!
Very interesting testimony. Deep thanks! One thought ... I am sure had Frank been digging a little deeper and in his search had past the orthodox Greek Church and may have reached some of the understanding that Moses and all the Prophets got from God - then he may have found the original view of God.
@GENESIS 3 ...... he now refers to himself as an Atheist.
@@robertnewell4054 How can he be both orthodox christian and atheist at the same time.
@@HS-pz3sq ....... This is my 3rd attempt to answer you Brother. I’m thinking the ADMINISTRATOR keeps deleting & censoring the answer to your question. th-cam.com/video/-33BUmx91BE/w-d-xo.html
Can someone list the names of all the elders books he mentioned.
I'm exactly in his shoes now... Baptist who feels lots of things are wrong in my church and doctrine.
I need to read what he read... I'm so thirsty for knowledge.
Baptist too brother I just discovered eastern orthodoxy (the best kept christian secret) last month look up the channel orthodox wisdom he reads the patristic father's and it is truly eye opening and with us both being baptist I think you'll find it to be too brother God bless you brother
FYI: Mr. Shaeffer vigorously and vociferously proclaims his own responsibility for the weirdness in our politics today, as on 2024. He is easily found on any search engine and you can learn how he believes his own, self professed, religion was used against him and all of us. His many years of insider knowledge can teach us all to recognize what is false and what is not.
I am in Serbian orthodox church :)
he speaks so well here. it's a shame what's happened to him.
What happened to him?
@@HS-pz3sq he's a progressive wacko now. oh and i think he claims to be an atheist.
@@APAL880 He's just another troll thats not really into orthodoxy but vain glory.
I was very involved in Full Gospel circles for ten years. We do have a few Orthodox priests who speak in tongues behind the alter (Antioch converts). Those of us who can speak in tongues follow Paul's advise to keep it out of the Church services.
Speaking in tongues has always been a controversial issue in the Orthodox Church. St. John Chrysostom (347-407 AD) wrote of it. Most people don't do it, but we do not condemn the practice and our people are free to pray in that manner.
god bless you
The video says quite clearly when it was delivered, 16 March 1996. It says this at 56 seconds into the video.
I came form a protestant fundamentalist background and although I am yet to officially converted, I feel I am ready to accept orthodox Christianity.
I like the faith because not it "separate the infidels form fatih" but "accepts those who are no infidels"
Thanks for this video! God Bless!
That is exactly how they worshipped in the OT & NT. Praising the Lord with spiritual songs, hymns, etc. They didn't dance,shout and jump around. There exists a respect, a reverence to God when people gather for worship.
Tell that to David
As you point out, the key for us ancient Orthodox Catholic Christians is that we have maintained the most ancient presuppositions - since our Church wrote, compiled, and canonized the Bible! Unlike Protestants, we understand what the Bible means because we have the active fullness of the Holy Spirit guiding us and because we have maintained the universal truth of interpretation for 2000 years! We maintain "that which has been believe by all, everywhere, and at all times"! Christ is risen!
These experiences in charismatic circles are actual experiences of God's presence. It includes His love, joy, peace & power. I have been in meetings where there was good music but no presence.There is a big difference. When I pray for non-Christians for healing I ask them did you feel something on that area of your body? Did you feel some warm/heat or electric sensation (the power of God) on that part of the body & we go from there, because sometime (not all the time) healing comes progressively
@TheWorldCitizen1 - Your answers are right in the Bible 1)images-Exodus 25:18-19, Numbers 21:8-9, 1 Kings 6:23-29, 1 Kings 7:25-45 2)Intercessory prayer of saints/Veneration of Saints--Joshua 5:16, Daniel 8:17, Mark 9:4, Rev. 6:9-11, Hebrews 12:1, Rev. 20:4, Romans 8:35-39 3)Mary--Luke 1:48 4) Kiss hands-Hebrews 13:17
It has been a while since I have been close to Full-Gospel Christianity. However, 20 years ago, there were a lot of RC who spoke in tongues. The speaking in tongues, etc. has been back in vogue for about 125 years now. These waves of Christian expression come and go. That does not mean there a bad thing, just a transitory thing. There will be something new in Christianity tomorrow. People will be excited about it. However, Orthodox will be the same tomorrow as it is today and was in 33AD.
On Amy Goodman’s program Democracy Now, Frank Schaeffer went so far as to describe Michelle Bachman’s adherence to what his father Francis Schaeffer articulated as “bronze age mythology including its misogyny, its homophobia, its racism…”
True! However, Psalms 42:11 "Why are you cast down, O my soul, and why are you in turmoil within me? Hope in God; for I shall again PRAISE him, my salvation and my God." Psalms 40:1-3 "I waited patiently for the LORD; he inclined to me and heard my cry. He drew me UP from the pit of destruction, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure. He put a new SONG in my mouth, a SONG of PRAISE to our God. Many will see and fear, and put their trust in the LORD." Amen!!! ;)
Oh dear. I am not sure I found your particular plan. I will check it out if you can help me find it.
FYI, the Orthodox Church reads the Scripture all year long. If you only go on Sundays, you miss a lot of it. But, if you can go to all the services, you hear almost everything over the course of a year.
Not exactly because the Orthodox church is not in full communion with the oriental church, but I am also grouping different denominations together. These protestant denominations are though united by protestant ideas like sola fide, sola scriptura, sola gratia. They are even united by evangelicalism and increasingly by the charismatic movement.
3. Being non-charismatic. The most dangerous thing is to assume that you have some super-natural powers because of your Christian beliefs. Holy Orthodox monks could be prophets, seers and such but it takes decades of Saint-like lifestyle to reach that height of consciousness! They pray, they purify their hearts from any negative thinking, they fast, they abandon all life's pleasures. Do modern Protestants do that? No, but some of them claim they are filled with Holy spirit! Who is to judge?
When did Frank Schaeffer deliver this lecture?
1. In some places the DSS did side with the Septuagint, but in the great Isaiah scroll it sides I think more with the Masoretic. For example in the DSS Isaiah 53 reads much closer to the Masoretic than it does for the Septuagint. There are scriptures in other places that read better in the masoretic. 2.Hebrew and Arabic are semitic languages and share a whoe lot in common. After taking a coarse in Arabic in college and with my knowledge of Hebrew I was able to read some of the Koran for myself.
The only issue I've found we disagree on is purgatory. I've heard conflicting things on the orthodox position. Is it believed to be heretical or an issue where each believer can have their own opinion without being a heretic (similar to Thomism/Molonism in the Catholic Church)
And please note that Purgatory has never been referred to by the Church as a place of fire, the fire motif has merely been a development in the artistic representation of purgatory, not theological.
Can you please articulate for me your understanding of what sola scriptura means?
Yes it is. The Orthodox church may not be the only church "doing God's work and singing His praises" but it is the first such church to do so. It is from the Greeks that you have the bibles both old and new to read for yourself. The only pride here is pride of place.
"May I say something to you?" "Do you speak Greek?" Acts 21:37
Moi?
I am currently considering becoming an orthodox too. The only problem. There are no parishes where I live or close by. =(
As James 1:27 reads: "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." This could be interpreted, love those and guide those who are lost and have lost loved ones. Religion even on the protestant side can be exhausting spiritually... But when you look at Jesus and not the outside appearance, it's so freeing. Jesus is who saved me, not a church, nor a religion.
In reference to the perceived drunkenness of Pentecost the people understood them. They said "how is it we understand them ..." so they did appear to be odd. There are two verses that talk about being overwhelmed by His presence 2 Chron. 5:14 and Rev. 1:17. Whats wrong with laughing and crying? Is there not fullness of joy in His presence (Pslm16:11)? Does He not cause us to laugh (Pslm 126:2)? Are there not tears of repentance (Zechariah 12:10)? And there are tears of joy of course.
There has been information, it just hasn't been written by the Orthodox. It appears as though we Catholics have a different theology from the Orthodox, but to quote Thomas Aquinas "Many things which sound well enough in Greek do not perhaps sound well in Latin. Hence, Latins and Greeks professing the same faith do so using different words."
3. He slams us for experience warmth on or in our bodies. Did He not manifest as fire and is He not a consuming fire? He slams laying on of hands as if it were not biblical and one who is filled with the Spirit for praying for another by contact to receive the Spirit. He quotes Joel but slams the idea that everyone can have this experiences. He slams the meetings that are lively and "disorderly " but remember what is said “These people are not drunk, as some of you are assuming (Acts 2)”
"I have the Holy Spirit to guide me through the scriptures." Unfortunately many christians think like that, and thats' why there're about 30'000 denominations in protestantism. Remember John 14.21/23 - you've to keep the commandments completely of our Lord so that may have full communion with our Lord. Faith without deeds are dead. Apostle Peter even admit that the letters of Paul are difficult to understand.
Have you ever read the Apostolic fathers?
I try to tell my mom why I want to become orthodox and she says whats wrong with our church. I dont know how to answer and when I do she doesnt get it. How can I tell her I found the more excellent way?
The Orthodox Church is the one true Church of Christ simply because it has never changed the faith and doctrines once delivered by the Apostles. That's why the Lord still confirms His presence in it through signs and wonders [Mark 16:20].
I pray to God for them & He answers. Does someone else answer in His stead? Does some else glorify His name before the lost? Before Muslims in Mozambique (Iris Ministries)? The question is does the gospel extend past Christ's incarnate, His death & resurrection for our sins (1 Cor.2:2)? Is faith in Christ, His gospel and walking in love enough or do we need more to be His? Does repentance and faith justify us before God or do we need more? If we have Christ we have the Father and His Spirit.
He raises some good points. I am a charismatic nondenominational christian and hate seeing all the different churches on a single street and the different churches being found at someone's whim. I find the ideal of apostolic succession and this kind accountability an awesome ideal, but I do not like some of the things in the orthodox church. These would include being non-charismatic (not have fellowship w/God presence), veneration of the saints and the lack of evangelism in the orthodox church.
But he still speaks with a evangelical tone and manner. Converts bring with themselves a different flavour to orthodoxy. He shows a lot of dualism in his conversations. In one interview he said that he will rather talk to an orthodox jew than to anyone else and now he claims to be an atheist.
"Religious obligations"? Did I mention that I was Orthodox? We don't have "religious obligations."
Jesus said that his mission was to establish a Church. He never said anything about freeing us from "religious obligations."
God is love. God became man, so that man could become more like God. Love is a good first step.
Did you read this Church history in the original Greek language of the Church fathers (that includes the Gospel writers)? Or is it your view that if English was good enough for Jesus it is good enough for you?
1. Prophecy is judge to be true when it does not contradict scripture. Like one can't prophecy new scripture or doctrine because" the faith has been once for all delivered to the saints." Prophecy is usually foretelling of things to come in one's life or the church or something like "God is calling you to be a missionary."
2. Tradition is okay but what about when tradition contradicts scripture or leaves certain things behind like prophesy in the church (which continued to Origen's day).
what frame work of tradition?
As a Catholic, I am about fed up with all of the insults from the Eastern Orthodox--Ecumenism has been mostly a dead end for Catholics, although no deader end than Ecumenism with Judaism.
Ecumenism via pluralism is a religion of modern man.
It is a modern tower of babel against the Holy Spirit and this is why it keeps falling down and collapsing.
Indeed. Ecumenism is a heresy. A pan-heresy as a matter of fact. It is the heresy of heresies. Combining truth and falsehood. We have no communion with the ecumenists
I don't mean Greek as in "Greeks" I mean Greek as in civilizational the way the western Church is the "Latin" rite, etc. I know this is in the USA and this confuses the heck out of people. Whatever errors are in the church they are based on the logical assumption that those closest to the source in place, language and history have it more correct than those removed by both geography, time and language.
i am a GREEK orthodox and i am ashame fromall the paganistic that is going on in my church GOD HAVE MERCY ONUS
Barbara made a wonderful comment. I always thought of the Church as the body of people united with Christ, as a living organism. He is the head and His people are the body. Western Christianity tends to be more incarnational which we really need today. God is involved in the world to the point we can say in Christ God became man. Eastern Orthodoxy tends to be more trinitarian in its approach. We both have big weaknesses and great strengths and we need humility with a sense where Jesus Himself is the head and we are members in His body, granted the honor of sharing in His life with the Father not in our own strength (as Luther realized) but in the power of God s own Spirit. All I know is I am thankful to be part of His body, and all the church politicking and cruel bashing from some members of these different Christian churches is depressing.
Interesting views about Eastern Orthodox church, I never heard the Orthodox church preaching anti-semitism, they always preached that they were the chosen people of God. As far as the celebration the shofar, and the tambourine that was a long time ago, a joyous time awaiting for the Messiah. Messiah came and instead of continued to be celebrated He was crucified that explains the mourning of the Orthodox (see black robes). The church is open for anyone who wishes to accept Jesus as the Messiah.
Actually what is going on in 4 Kingdoms 18:4 is "The Spiritual reality of the bronze serpent made by Moses in Nm 21:9 is lost and its meaning worthless".
I do not understand your question. St. John's baptism was an adaptation of the mikvah or ritual immersion, that had been a part of Jewish life for generations. St. John was baptized in this way.
As far as I understand, the Orthodox Church doesn’t:
-recognise papal infallibility but does recognise the bishop of Rome as first among equals.
-doesn’t recognise the Immaculate Conception of Mary but does recognise her as being full of grace, the Ark of the New Covenant, the New Eve, and Queen of Heaven.
-doesn’t recognise the Catholic definition of purgatory but does recognise that prayers are useful for the dead.
-doesn’t recognise the Catholic understanding of Original Sin (which is that, while everyone bears the consequences of the first sin - chiefly death - everyone also bears the guilt for that sin) *Although I believe the Catholic Church officially teaches that Original Sin is our inherited state of deprived original holiness and not Adam and Eve’s personal guilt, which would indicate the Orthodox Church has misunderstood the Catholic position here.
-doesn’t recognise the Catholic addition of the Filoque clause (that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son equally) but is open to the definition that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father primarily and the son secondarily. Or am I wrong here?
-doesn’t recognise the Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation but does recognise the Eucharist as the actual body and blood of Christ and not as a mere symbol.
This Frank Shaeffer is a nice guy;
I still don't get it why Os Guiness called him a "brat"...
Sad, that some evangelicals would hate on someone because that person changed his/her religious standing.
Why was Solomon's Temple so full of Idles.2 Chronicles ch.3 and 4.
Woah dude, I never noticed the icons in Solomons Temple. Good catch
Do you believe scripture is clear? Do you believe that Christ in the gospels covered all the bases? Do you believe the written Gospels came down to us from the Apostles to be the ground and pillar of our faith? Does Paul fail to present the gospel to Galatians or Romans? Does Luke succeed in communicating to Theophilus (or the Church) an orderly account of Christ, His life and message so that Theophilus may know with certainty the things that have been taught?
I once saw a comment on a TH-cam post somewhere, that referred to the founders of the Protestant Church as rebellious priests of the Catholic Church. Wisdom. Were they not rebellious priests of the Catholic Church? The answer is that of course they were. Regardless of how bad the situation might have been in the Catholic Church, to rebel against it amounts to heresy, does it not? The answer is that of course it does. Humility stays in the Catholic Church, pride leaves it, and pride is a sin.
I was nowhere Istanbul Wayne. I was in Bodrum, which is on the Aegean,. you can reach Kos in Greece by taking a short ferry trip. I have heard of the ruins you mention yes. There are many things older than the pyramids, we have plenty of things older than them in Ireland for example, as do many other nations. Americans are sometimes called septic tanks in rhyming slang in the UK you might like to note. I am sure the RUSSIANS could not care less what you call them ultimately of course.
The Orthodox through what I think is called "economy" (used in the Greek sense not to mean economics but household) allow mercy to a married couple to use contraception in limited circumstances after consulting with a priest. I read that a long time ago so my details are hazy.
Most Orthodox Nations have to bare the sorrow which is tied to both their history and religion and can't help express any other way. Since the time of the Apostoles (persecution) till now nothing has changed for them.
To speak musically if you wish: Music is expressed many ways: Major Scale (happy), Minor scale (sad), or others: Phrygian(Glorious), Dorian(Dark), Pentatonic/Blues (Sad), etc.. but Orthodox best express themselves with the Byzantine Scale. There is the right season for everything
I believe so. After his journey he could only remain there or move to a form of Anglicianism.
NT was written by Apostles, not written down later, NT was there from the start, see
Irenaeus and Clement and others quote them.councils just defended the received identity of and boundaries of canon of Scripture.
Mikhail Kolitwenzew did you ever think there would be so many comments on your page?
Mount Athos is a testament to the truth of Orthodoxy! I would feel so unworthy to even step on its grounds...I came from a Roman Catholic home and went to Seminary and was a monastic (Uniate). I am now a Catechumen of an Old Calender Orthodox church. Deo Gratias! I am home.
what is the name of the letter to Irenaeus to the heretic that he mentions at about the 44 minute mark
Agaisnt Heresies its online and even in audio format somewhere (Librovox)
@@Mishakol1290 Thanks Michael! I should have realized it was that one. I have read a couple parts of it but not all of it. I am now at the 52 minute mark and loving it.
Well that's all good that you read the Bible, PRAISE THE LORD that you do! HOWEVER, I've been trying to tell people this, and they think I'm an idiot for doing/thinking this... But when I visited an Orthodox church, I did not feel free in the Spirit to praise the Lord the way I felt led in the Spirit, i.e. raising my hands, praying in the Spirit (tongues), and/or dancing... And there were no people saying testimonies or prophecies... It was just liturgy, chanting, somewhat of a sermon...END.
Now I have no doubt you didn't understand the talk given by Mr Shaeffer. He is not talking about the RCC. He IS talking about Eastern Orthodoxy.
HA! It's very nice to know that YOU out of billions know so much... Ephesians 5:19 (KJV) "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;" The Amplified Bible says this "Speak out to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, offering praise with voices [and instruments] and making melody with all your heart to the Lord,"
I rest my case.
Like I told Hans S Protestants share four Solas. Many different branches of Protestantism go to the same conferences and buy the same books. There is a certain level of agreement. The Word of God forces us to arrive at certain truths. We are trinitians. We are saved by faith alone to good works & service to Christ. We obey the gospels being Baptized into Christ, His death, burial and life and covenant. In the Lord's Supper we remember & partake of His blood and body thru the bread and wine.
Orthodoxy is a living and breathing faith. Part of that faith was written down. The Church took 27 books of the written down portion of Orthodox faith and declared it to be the New Testament and to be Canon.
So, if you trust the NT to be correct, you should most certainly trust the entire Orthodox Church.
BTW, 2 Tim. 3:16 ONLY refers the OT, as there was no NT in those days.
In the early church it was the Oral Tradition handed down by the Apostles. The early church depended on Oral Tradition entirely for its knowledge of the Christian faith. All Protestants seek to understand the BIble while ignoring Church Tradition. Each Protestant group believes that their group has rightly understood the BIble, while dismissing Church Tradition. There exists no central authority.
What's your definition of religion?
There is no hatred only dialogue. I dont hate Hans S and I am sure he does not hates me but we can disagree. These types of conversations are to get us to think and evaluate what we believe and why we believe it.
Have you read what FS has had to say about Evangelicals lately, or Conservative Orthodox believers for that matter?
Does anyone know what year this was filmed? Looks like the 80s. Schaeffer seems to have drifted a little in his thinking since his father died in 84. I hear him more vocally in politics than theology, which doesn't seem very Orthodox to me.
Bro, it says right at the beginning that it was filmed in 1996...did you fall asleep less than 1 minute in? :P
Haha, narcolepsy sucks. Nah, I listened while I was getting some work done, didn't watch every detail.
Thanks, bro.
Cool. Just wondering if you are EO? I am a Protestant but I think we can definitely learn some things from the EO church. He no doubt makes good points and if anything much of what he spoke of is even worse now as 18 years have passed since this lecture.
+thapack45, I am not EO - at least not yet. My wife and I have been reading and praying through things. Both of us have always found the existence of denominations unsettling, but have not known how to ask why they exist and if it is what Christ originally intended when he established himself as the head of the Church. My thought was simply "well, denominations exist and there's nothing we can do about it so we might as well 'choose one' to be a part of. We both grew up Baptist and are now attending an Independent Methodist Church (whose pastor is admittedly "a reluctant Protestant"). If you're much of a reader and are interested in doing some further thinking: you should take a look at Roger Olson's "Story of Christian Theology", Dennis Kinlaw's "Let's Start with Jesus", and John Zizioulas' "Being as Communion". Those books - though only one written by an EO - opened my eyes to the rich and forgotten tradition lacking in Protestantism, starting with the nature of human personhood.
1. Please answer the question I have posted twice already.
2. Its all in the word. "For if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins." John 8:24
We must believe that He is the I Am who was talking to Moses at the burning bush. Arius blasphemed by saying the Word was a creature that should be worshiped as God even though He was not. Not understanding that only God is to be worshiped and God (the Word) does not come into being. Nestorians are severely confused.