Why I Converted To Eastern Orthodoxy : Author Frank Schaeffer
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ส.ค. 2011
- This is Frank Shaeffer speaking about his conversion to Orthodoxy...........................
Here is the moderator speaking on AncientFaithRadio about his own conversion to Orthodoxy: ancientfaith.com/podcasts/illu...
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I first found this video about two years ago when I was having serious doubts about Protestantism.
I am an Orthodox catechumen now, and I hope to be chrismated within the next six months.
Glory to God!
God bless brother.
Orthodox Reactionary did you become an atheist too?
Maybe. But note where Frank is 4 years later: th-cam.com/video/-33BUmx91BE/w-d-xo.html
And this: th-cam.com/video/M6vhZtOqTfM/w-d-xo.html
I thank God that I was born in the Serbian Orthodox faith and every time I went to a different church they never felt right.
Fun story: I was baptised a Catholic and even went to church with my grandma as a child. So that's what I grew up with. As a teenager of course I became sceptical with it. The first time I visited an Orthodox church in Crete I was still in puberty but I already felt that it's something different. Then the first one as an adult was a Serbian Orthodox church and it was a defining experience. Since then I just can't look at any other church the same way, and maybe it's rude to put it this way but honestly they feel like 'cheap knockoffs' in all terms and I don't feel any kind of connection to them on an honest spiritual level.
Бог в помощь, братец :)
The same thing happens for anyone who tries something unfamiliar for the first time. Could you elaborate?
It would be a sad look-out for humanity if *only* the Serbian Orthodox Church were the route to salvation! But I appreciate your devotion to your tradition.
@Stanley Weatherfield Yes, of course. I took his comment as the equivalent of "Mommy's cooking is best", which is a fine sentiment, as long as we acknowledge how subjective it is.
To be more nitpicky than is justified in a TH-cam comment, he *did* refer to "the Serbian Orthodox *faith* ", while as you point out, all Orthodox share the same faith: if you favour the Serbian, Romanian, Greek, whatever... expression of that faith, that's surely just a matter of familiarity and preference, like putting ketchup or mustard on your fries.
The man put it in one simple sentence: Even a deaf mute can worship God from the heart and be saved, regardless of thelogocial ideas.Too often modern christians forget this simple fact. Christ came to save all of mankind, from the simplest man to the most complicated philosopher.
Agreed full heartedly and amen
What Frank said at the beginning of his journey to Orthodoxy is how I, ultimately, also came to Holy Orthodoxy. I bless God for His wonderful mercy to me.
Glory to God!
When I finally was received into the Othodox Church I felt I had come home.
You know tath is real true Church.
I felt at home finally, when I went into a Catholic Church. The theology is so deep and so wide that it's unfathomable
I read the faith of the early church fathers, Jergens. All the writings that did not make it into the New Testament. However our new testament is a catalog of Doctrine. One scripture represents many other writings.
However, studying pre Jewish history is another matter. Studying sexual politics in our religion is another matter.
Pavlina Malise: Many converts to Roman Catholicism say the same thing about feeling they came home. How is what you experienced different?
And for the record, I'm not speaking out of theological/academic speculation. I was crippled and in a wheelchair from spinal trauma (and still part of a Reformed fellowship) when I was visited by a Saint during a time of prayer. What happened next is impossible to describe fully in words, but I was absolutely aware that this Saint (there was more than one, They are Family, and One) was totally filled with the power and love of God, and was profoundly fragrant. She gave me my legs back. No joke.
Really?!?!?
My wife and I went to listen to Frank on this subject in October of 1995. We walked out Orthodox with but a few months to go to receive baptism into the Orthodox church. We have never looked back, our hands are on the Orthodox plow.
+John Reeder hahahaha i'm sorry but it's pathetic people who convert to different religions. i am orthodox by right of birth that is my blood
You clearly have anger issues from the way you communicate your opinion. Respect that you are speaking to Orthodox believers and you should be demonstrating respect for other peoples beliefs. If you can not comment without blaspheming the apostle Paul, then do not comment at all.
BERTIL SCALI listen you peice of shit nobody gives a shit what you think of the orthodox religion if you dont have somthing good to say then fuck off and dont look back
Bertil Scali.... Go away you descendant of TURK stable boys.
_Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” And Philip said unto him, "Whoa, tiger, hold on. You can't just up and get baptized like they do in the Bible. This is the historic church we're talking about here. You have to wait months and take a class."_ (Acts 8:35-36 with an EO twist)
I converted from Baptist 12 years ago after 10 years of searching for answers and then 2 years of research about the Church itself. What a treasure!
Been a whole decade damn
I am a Canadian, not a Serb, but I feel very sad for my Christian brethren in Serbia. May God bless Orthodox Serbia. Also, Kosovo is Serbian!
his words on salvation may convert me to Orthodoxy.
you should never been driven by the words of any one in the bible it says study the written and keep in mind that the Holy Bible where not written then but was being written so study the apostols their students the writings of everyone. Go to church see if you can find inner pease use all of your senses while being there. And if it all concludes to you wanting to be in Eatern Orthodox Church then you are mostly wellcome but take your time to look and see and feel and read first, a small advice :)
me too
+Nate Nobile we orthodox do not convert people, we don't need you!!
that mean you are not orthodox! is wish of Christ for all peoples to be saved!
Catholics were Orthodox originally. The reason for the schism was the pope. If you think a human can be without sin, then you may stay a catholic and believe that the pope is God on earth. I personally think he has more sins than me and you combined.
Ghospodi Pomiluj !! What a fast speaker this fellow is. But I have to say, like him when I heard Liturgy the first time, I knew it was the only, right and proper.
I might be a sinner, but deep down I am grateful that I was baptized an Orthodox. The only true religion, were people love each other no matter race or behaviors under the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. The Holy Trinity, GOD.
Mourning Star what in the world nonsense and hatred is this? You should be ashamed of such hateful stuff.
@@eastwestcoastkid what do you mean?
“The only true religion” is zealot speak. You’re one step away from committing genocide with that rhetoric, even with the best of intentions. You’d be serving god well to be more open minded
@@leobird8756 op isn’t the moral arbiter of the universe. But he’s faithfully devoted to following, yes, the true God. To be open minded is being open to lies. Once you know the truth, it’s hard to start believing a lie, no matter how badly the culture wants you to. And the persecution currently happening in the East and the persecution to come is towards the devout.
@@leobird8756 truth is not relative. There's only one truth, one true religion.
This gentleman is very educated and has an incredible understanding of church history. More importantly he articulates and communicates it in a very objective manner to those who did not grow up in the Orthodox faith. I really appreciate he stressed that being Orthodox does not mean we are the only ones that can be saved because salvation is a mystery between you and God and gave the examples such as the person that was crucified and repented and contrasted that to the dogmatic doctrines of the west.
My thoughts exactly. He can explain things so clearly. Beautiful interview. And as another person wrote in comment here, I also feel so blessed that I was born in an Orthodox country (Romania) and that my parents are Orthodox. I have never felt confused or unsure about my faith, I know where I stand. :)
***** interessant - orthodox geboren. was wäre wenn du nonorthodox geboren wärst (katholisch oder prothestant)? was hättest du dann gemacht? es scheint komplizierter als du denkst, meine liebe.
nu-i așa?
otium .s I don't consider myself wise enough to answer. It would be easy to say the first thought that comes to mind, but things are indeed more complicated then that...just as you said.
modestă și amabilă.
---
transmite, te rog, salutările mele și lui Urechilă ;) am și eu 3.
“You die and reborn every day. Pick up your cross and stumble towards the city of God, you stumble but get up and keep on going” Jordan Peterson on Orthodoxy
Orthodox is best church i mean come on look at the way they pray they sing to jesus without dancing.they behave them selves infront of jesus.they respect jesus very much.they pray many times not only one time .any one can feel the holly spirit in it because it is best church ever.
+wolf
In fact it is the only Church ever...
"In ONE, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church..." (Creed of Faith)
About 2 1/2 weeks ago a Baptist preacher with a youtube channel sanderson1611 put out several videos mocking the Orthodox Church . I am actually a Baptist and used to watch him . However , these videos are satanic . Many of his own youtube subscribers said so but had their comments deleted. Please find these videos and down vote them. He can delete comments but he cannot delete down votes.
I remember attending an Orthodox service and was disappointed. People did the sign of the cross, crossing themselves over and over. Then, the kissing of the pictures/icons that went on and on. What's the difference between icons and statues of saints that the Roman Church has? Catholics don't kiss their saints, but they pray to the statues of saints.
Excellent presentation to the Orthodox faith. All are very true. Thank you!
18:00 absolutely true! More and more conservative Roman Catholics are looking to the Eastern Orthodox Church. I hope that the Pope will do the same soon. We must learn from the eastern church how to become what we were.
Njihov jets je samo njihov...
How beautiful this man described my religion and the truth about our God and were we come from, I sat here in tears listening seing that I'm not the only one feeling this way about Orthodoxy and this wonderful thing that is kept the same way even thousands of years later, amazing! and the way he was talking about the Holy week before Pasca (before Easter).....he just blew me away" because is true.......we all prepare for that time, were for just that special time we all get closer to God.
Thank you Frank.
They do this in the Roman Catholic Church also.
Nancy Gardner
Nancy Gardner They do this in the Anglican Church also. Beautiful rituals, v similar to the RC's, in English. High Church is v high.
NESTOR POTKINE , I think you have a problem with yourself, and the one being not si clever and "dumb" as you put, it is you!. there are millions of Teachers, Scientists, Doctors, Physicians, Surgeons, Lecturers, people in high positions, etc.. who are Christians, Orthodox Christians, and who embrace this religion, are also the way that you describe them? are you trying to tell me that, all these intelligent people around the world, they are dumb too....??
Personally, I think you should detach from your hateful world inside you and embrace the kinder world out there, and be nicer to people....
Peace and love to you.
NESTOR POTKINE
You sound like a very troubled man, and I hope you find your inna peace. God blessing
So happy I found this video
mr nice "If you make one step toward God...God will make a thousand steps toward you!" God bless us all!
Iată că l am găsit acum in 2021!este o bucurie pentru mine.
I loved it. All the many things that opened me up to Orthodoxy were the same ones that opened his eyes, too. History was the big one for me, too. I constantly had to ask, "If this is what the earliest Christians believed and taught, why aren't we doing the same today?"
Thank you, Mikhail. This is brilliant! Putting God in a box of our reason and rationality is creating God in more of our image and likeness and that has nothing to do with the mystical and spiritual union that the doctors of the Church had in mind and soul. The simple-minded man can be far more spiritual than the most intellectual scholar of theology. Even a person who cannot grasp any intellectual concepts like a child or a person mentally challenged can still partake in the mystery of Christ.
I like how he talks about the fullness. In Orthodoxy, I find the theology satisfying and complete, and in reformed theology I feel it is incomplete, and only dealing with the Christian externally.
Frank speaks as an amazing witness for the Orthodox Church. I too am certain beyond any doubt that Orthodoxy is the true church established by Christ and his disciples. The experience is transformative and the Protestants sadly have no idea what they are missing. The Orthodox Church is the best held, most amazing open secret in America and the West.
This man just told me what I've been thinking for a few years now. I needed this
No need to argue with others...i'm a Greek orthodox...if you are curious or very sure for your protestant ways then you have nothing yo fear about. Say it's a scientific experiment, go to an orthodox church during the Holy week ( 7 days closing at Christ's Ressurection ) and talk to a priest...then we can talik again... F.Schaeffer hit the jack pot.
It makes you wait for the next year and yet again. Pasxa
One fact of Orthodoxy = Struggling with our passions every moment of our lives.
Hearing how he talks about the faith, I'm actually not surprised he's gotten to where he is. That kind of aggressive dialectic intellectualism can destroy the faith because it's just not done in love, but out of a desire to persuade people. It's just quite sad. The way he talks is how I used to, and how I often still talk. I think his is a cautionary tale. The words of our Holy Father the Venerable Bede come to mind, "Better a stupid and unlettered brother who, working the good things he knows, merits life in Heaven than one who though being distinguished for his learning in the Scriptures, or even holding the place of a doctor, lacks the bread of love". Might we always remain in Christ and feed on the bread of love, so as to love others.
Behind that lurks spiritual pride, which hollows out the faith. Anyone who converts because of intellectual positions makes himself the arbiter. I too am struggling with my church, and am hungry for a change, but I will let the Holy Spirit lead me, and won't make a change until I know it is right.
How true.
Amen 🙏🏻
How do you know it’s not done in love?
@@MrGb1965 I suppose I don't know the heart of the man. But look at where he's at now in life. A secularist, if not a total agnostic, who's views on basic tenets of Christian morality have radically turned upside down.
I think he saw in Orthodoxy just another data set. Something to be grasped and used to bolster another set of ideas. His deconstruction of Christianity then is only the necessary outcome of anyone who views the world and Christianity like this. His entire ethos has less to do with the beauties of Orthodoxy and more to do with why everyone else is wrong and Orthodoxy is true.
You can both believe that Orthodoxy is the truth and not fall into the trap Frank Schaeffer does. That's why the saints are our guides, because this was the needle they also had the thread.
I greatly appreciate this conversation. Such a respectful and informative exchange. Well done.
I found this video very informative and helpful. I hope nobody is put off by the VHS era quality of the video. The conversation is very congenial and throught out.
Great to hear your testimony. I sm glad you found Orthodoxy. I read your book Dancing alone in Romanian language.Greetings from Romania -orthodox country,Europe.-
0:00 Title Card
0:24 Opening Sequence
1:02 Calvin Forum Introduction.
1:15 Host: Bob Buyring
1:28 Guest: Frank Schaeffer
2:33 Orthodox Tradition
*Frank Schaeffer’s Childhood*
2:46 Evangelical Protestant background in Switzerland.
3:12 His family takes Truth seriously.
3:38 Looking For The Historical Church
4:25
Philosophical Questions
Personal Questions
So, Frank Schaeffer read books written by Church Fathers. ☦️⛪️📖
5:16 Ancient Histories of The Church by Eusephius
5:53 The Historical Church’s practice.
+ What The Church has Always Been is not a matter of opinion. It is objective, empirical evidence.
6:37 To Be a Christian means you
• believe certain things
• do certain things
• don’t do certain things
7:10 Definite Church Worship
7:38 Christian Morality, Worship, and Doctrine, were all one piece of fabric.
It boiled down to this.
7:55 Christians from across time periods, cultural paradigms, could know where they were in the Liturgy. 8:53 That’s how uniform it was.
9:25 Country boy on his farm knows his farm. Orthodox Christian wouldn’t recognize home in a Protestant church.
10:21 Is there The Historical Church? Is it something we as 21st century people still he a part of?
11:08 What was happening in your life? Did people help you?
11:51 _“The problem is if you ask honest questions, you do find answers.”_
13:15 Roman Catholics
13:44 What kept Frank Schaeffer out of Roman Catholicism?
*Welcome Back to Calvin Forum*
14:22 Thomas Howard, Malcum Mugridge. What kept Frank Schaeffer from Roman Catholicism?
15:08 Pro-Life friendship between Orthodox, Protestant, and Roman Catholics.
16:18 Church History
+ Antioch
+ Alexandria
+ Rome
+ Constantinople
+ Jerusalem
17:08 _Dancing Alone_ is the perennial Protestant Problem
- You’re by yourself, all personalized, all inward looking, leaves you individual.
17:53 Modern Protestantism is
- Chaos
- Trivialization of Worship
- whatever feels good
18:46 Conservative Roman Catholics support Traditional Liturgy, they like to hear bashing the watering down of the faith.
19:41 Roman Catholic
- Immaculate Conception of Mary
- Purgatory
- Infallible Papal Pronouncement
*How do you look at Protestants?*
22:14 You personally?
22:36 “you of course are looking much further and there’s something attractive about that.”
24:00 Salvation is a Mystery between The Heart and God ♥️☦️
27:49 _Dancing Alone_ There is a better way, than 23,000 denominations and strife over doctrine.
29:38 The Fullness is The Original, The Real Thing, Well-Performed. The Way It Was Intended To Be.
31:15 Grace ☦️ Holy Week.
32:33 Experiencing An Orthodox Liturgy. ☦️♥️
34:12 What kind of relationship would you like to see between these Traditions?
34:56 How do we live as we?
• A “conspiracy of silence” is not the way to live
35:55 What do we do about…?
• The Naked Public Square
36:55 Our Dying and Sick American 🇺🇸 Culture 🤒
37:40 Kind of agreed upon wishy washy platitudes vs clearly stating differences while we are Rending to God what is God’s and Rendering to Ceaser what is Ceaser’s.
39:10
Pluralistic American Protestant Culture
42:45
Reformers: Sola Scriptura
Enlightenment: Sola
Orthodoxy Faith, Mystery, Love ❤️
43:29 Aquinas and Calvin speak The Western Idea of Rationalism.
44:00 God Sees The Heart ❤️
This was very interesting. Thanks for the upload.
This man has left the faith and does not spare any Christian in his wake. He is a tool of darkness. May God have mercy and bring him to repentance.
Very similar story to mine. I was chrismated December 19, 2020. I have not regretted it. I am home. I pray Frank finds his way back to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Has he since rejected the teachings of the Church?
@@that_sun_guy6527he now claims to be an atheist and the Bible is all a bunch of fables.
Dear Frank Schaeffer - this is an amazing insight, thank you for highlighting these incredible key points. Especially with the example you used when describing ways of worship between west (romans catholics and protestants) and east (Orthodox).
I'd like to point out that saying one is catholic does not mean you are roman catholic and believe in the pope. Catholic means to worship god universally. Orthodox means original, and true to its meaning it is unchanged and truley apostolic (vs infallable papacy & additions like purgatory). I also really agree with what you said that we all have Christ in our heart, whether we are christian or not, because we were all created by GOD and in his image.
Also nicely spoken about the reformed religions which think they can explain god, no one can, as long as we are on earth, we are unable to understand. We have been given Jesus to give us a simple message (his teachings) to help us get to god. This is the great mystery that awaits us and i cant wait!
Praise the lord, may he protect us but i also pray for more people to find God.
I hope i will be lucky enough to be an Orthodox soon, i am attending liturgy and for the first time i feel the holy spirit's presence.
Fantastic very useful in so many ways... delighted! Thanks Mikhail K
Thank you for posting this. I understand his journey.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Absolutely right about what he says about post-Vatican II Roman Catholicism. I was baptized Episcopalian, converted to Catholicism in 2002, now looking to Orthodoxy as being the "True Church".
Sadly Frank found the church but was never able to commit to the path laid out by Christ and the fathers of the church. The Royal Way or “narrow path” leading to the Eternal.
Instead Frank has fallen into cynicism with his ego still sadly pursing fame and wealth while living under the shadow of his father.
The Way to Life is a narrow path and few there are that pass through.
Frank was so focused on the historical part of Orthodox Christianity, he skipped over theosis, the spiritually transformative stuff.
Orthodoxy is called the Royal Path for a reason. Full of majesty and truth, it will bring you a peace like you have never known. It contains the oral traditions as well as written, by the original Church fathers all the way back to the apostles. Everyone should study it..there are great Orthodox books at the Jordanville Monestery in Jordanville, NY on line. Read up on it. Then go to an Orthodox service. You will never be sorry.
I've come to think of it in a (imperfect) marriage analogy - Orthodox Christians are in a lawful marriage, how it's supposed to be for a loving relationship, but protestants are dating - is there love? It's too difficult of a place to judge. There very well might be even if you simply date, it's just not assured and tested to be proper, they might easily burn themselves on that dating experience. And similarly, Orthodox Christians - there are all appearances of proper loving marriage from the beginning, but then again it would still be a mystery if there is love. It's still proper and better that way, so let's just hope and pray that it works out best for both, without pride of one over another - since it's not just about marriage that would signify that loving relationship, we should keep priorities straight.
I was just made a catechumen this past Pascha🙏🏻
That's incredible.
Bad news, friends- he has since become an atheist. Not a great commercial for Orthodoxy Im afraid.
Are you sure about that?
mysterychemistry
I’m not sure if he was being sarcastic as you seem to think, but the underlying point still stands:
Hollywood has poisoned Schaffer’s soul. He is NOT the same man he was in this interview. Thousands of favors from all the perverts in Hollyweird have softened head to their ways and hardened his heart ESPECIALLY against the faith of his father. He’s got this weird kind of hypocritical relationship with Orthodoxy now, but he has outright declared war on Evangelicals whom he still respected at the time of this filming. Reading his blog, He sounds like he hasn’t missed a single episode of “The Young Turks” since it premiered on TH-cam.
That’s the biggest fall from sanity I’ve heard about in a writer since the tragic suicide of the Author of “A Canticle for Leibowitz”, a story that could just as easily be applied to Orthodoxy as Catholicism.
Life At Home I’m listening to his voice and I feel nothing. Just sounds like another intellectual trying to puff his chest out. Then I read this. Well who knows and honestly it matters not
Everyone has relapses at one point or another. He's in a personal struggle with all his ideology. There have been faithful who go back and fourth, you either believe or you don't, in the end, the telos in the greek we will surely find out what this all means. Nevertheless in my journey I choose Eastern Orthodoxy, them ones who literally translated the new testament, the earliest witnesses to Christianity and by the way the only Christian denomination who suffered and were martyred more than any other, just askm the Russian Orthodox under the Bolsheviks.
Many people along the journey have been dweply faithful and then fallen away especially in the monastic world. The devil seea this progress and then fights from the right ... his "right" was Hollywood / Oprah / popularity and infact his journey to atheism IS what the fatherd warn happens when we fall from Grace due to pride.
Great interview . Be good to hear this talk know in 2021!
Unfortunately this man has changed a great deal and would probably not be able to deliver even a fraction of the power he delivered in this interview...
I'm all with you on this. Without loosing sight that all rites were created many years after the departure of Christ, the ceremonial services are of upmost importance as they create correct disposition for the serious reality taking place in front of us in the tabernacle. I may say, that out of lack of the carnal memories of those first Christians, ceremony comes to the aid to preserve those memories in likewise intensity.
This is a great interview. Welcome home Frank Shaeffer =)
I guess now he has left his home. He needs a lot of prayer.
he speaks so well here. a shame what has happened to him since.
Pray for him.
He sounds so sensible here. What happened to him?
No it's no shame; it's tragedy.
@@nikclinton2147 What happened to him?
@@randomango2789 he's atheist apparently
Thank you for putting it together for me.
thank you for posting this
19:51 Just to clear things up: Latin theology does not posit a molecular or "accidental" change of the bread at the epiklesis. Rather, it is the "substance" of the bread which is changed into that of Christ. Terminology matters.
I am saddened and shocked at what I hear about Frank Schaeffer's current position on things, in particular on abortion. I am so sad he went that way. He is so eloquent in this video, and I don't mind his admitting he has lots of doubts about God (we all do) but to think that standing up for an unborn child's right to live comes from hating women??? What
Absolutely and by far the best, hands down discussion about differences of Orthodox Church and everyone else. Waw, amazing.
This was FANTASTIC!!!!!👏👏👏
Wow! So full of wisdom. No better way to describe the Orthodox Church
The tree was Orthodoxy forever. Catholicism and other related religions are as the cut branches of the tree.
geoellinas really? Why then did Jesus change Simon's name to "Rock," and then say He was building His Church on him? Why was St. Peter *alone* entrusted with the keys to the kingdom? It was in this same context that Jesus promised His Church founded on Peter would never be destroyed. The Catholic Church is the "tree."
geoellinas the Roman Catholic Church started first. I have absolutely nothing against the Orthodox Church and think is very relevant in hope it's strong but please don't be telling me if the true church and only church
@@merricat3025 the Catholic Church did not start first. Please study history. The Church of Christ started as 5 Orthodox branches, one of the was the Roman branch which sadly took some very heretic turns.
orthodoxaustralia.org/the-orthodox-argument/
The Ship of Orthodoxy is sailing in rough waters - The Orthodox Church has always been and always will be under attacks and persecutions (click to view)
Pope Francis likens Jesus to ISIS
May 20, 2016 Apostate World
The perverted Christian understanding could not be more prevalent today than is in what the Pope just said. He speaks of “Christian roots of Europe”, but does not tell you Western Europe has lost touch with true Chriatianity in 1054 when it separated from Orthodoxy and adopted a new doctrine soon after (Pope Gregory VII
Let all Glory be to God for all things+++
The Catholic Church was part of the one church; East and West.
The more I listened, the more I realized I was listening to a huckster (and when I looked at his more recent pronouncements this was proven correct). If you can cut through the wall of words you'll apprehend he's talking not so much about Orthodoxy as he is about Frank Schaeffer.
an amazing video!
St. John of Damascus also makes the same point: "This rock was Christ, the incarnate Word of God, the Lord, for Paul clearly teaches us: 'The rock was Christ' (1 Cor. 10:4) (Homily on the Transfiguration)
Convert from Roman Catholic, old alter-boy, running from Vatican II madness! O.C.A. now and loving it! The true faith! Reminds me of the pre-Vatican II, Roman Catholic Church of my youth! Smells, bells,
respect, and piety! Back Home @ last. 🙏🌺☦️🌺🙏
Very good discussion with many clarifying points. The analogy of a Shakespeare play and Orthodoxy vs. a modern synopsis and Protestantism is excellent.
I just checked the link in the description of the video - about the interview with the interviewer :D! I was laughing the half of the time!! just amazing!
Love orthodox believe and religion. . The best after all.
Check historical facts and history
Wasn't too long after this that Frank claims atheism.
That's bad
An “atheist who believes in God”.
This is an amazing discussion.
Glad to hear you say it!
If you count the amount of times he says "I" in this interview you'll understand why he's now an atheist. The reason he left evangelism to come to orthodoxy is because "I researched it" not that he felt God allowed him to see all these things and the Holy Spirit opened his eyes. If you watch his talk about why he's an atheist you'll realize that the same style of thinking led him to draw those conclusions. At one point he says something like "I found it ridiculous that I had to tell my wife what to do and lead the house because the Bible told to." He spends much of his time talking about the "journey" away from religion through greater understanding of life. The point being he had reached a greater understanding, philosophically and through his own reason which placed him above religion and the church.Let us all pray that God will help us to protect our faith and humble ourselves to never believing God can be understood, accepted and denied through human reason.
Well said. We need to follow Christ, not a denomination.
@@titianmom Orthodoxy is not a denomination.
@@OlympicLeprechaun That is true. They lack the understanding that when we are baptized, we become a member of a community of faith and the household of faith.
Yeah man. I see a lot of myself in Frank here, but its this kind of mind rotting individualism, and rationalistic intellecutalism that leads one to fall away. I'm terrified of that happening because I just want to love God who I'm pretty sure is found in the EO Church, and I'm all too glad to have joined, but it wasn't without its fair share of problems. I ponder on the words of St. Bede
"Better a stupid and unlettered brother who, working the good things he knows, merits life in Heaven than one who though being distinguished for his learning in the Scriptures, or even holding the place of a doctor, lacks the bread of love."
May the Lord grant us the bread of love.
@@eduardovalentin9416 For real, man.
"And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church'; that is, on the faith of his confession. " (Homilies on the Gospel of Matthew 54.2-3). " Let us not then merely keep hold of Christ, but let us be cemented to Him, for if we stand apart, we perish...And accordingly, there are many images whereby He brings us into union. Thus, if you mark it, He is the 'Head', we are 'the body'...He is a 'Foundation', we are a 'building..." (Homilies on I Corinthians VIII.7)
A very interesting, knowledgeable and intelligent argument ... put forward by a man who is sincerely seeking the meaning of his existence, taking responsibility for his life, rather than simply regurgitating received ideas and blind faith propounded by others....
thanks...very educative video.
Nice, I am in Serbian ortodox church :).
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Awesome interview however I will say that looking at his other material this man has lost his soul again in the current time. Going from this interview to being pro- gay marriage shows that there his soul is under heavy attack by the fallen one. I feel sorry for him and pray he returns to the old days as demonstrated in this interview.
Frankie lost it somewhere after this fine interview. Early books and testimonies were keen, but his recent works seem confused and no credit to Eastern Orthodoxy.
May God have mercy on him and all the rest of us.
Brianchaninov I suppose it shouldn't be surprising, if someone as brilliant as Origin could be personally condemned as a heretic by the church, then Frank is not immune from his share of struggles.
Peace to you heart
is that for real. did he really became pro gay? i'm shocked. i found his videos(the defense of orthodoxy videos) last year and became his fun. i wonder what his priest thinks
Yea he appears very lost, reading his modern stuff he appears to have contradicted himself from this video of thinking that him as an individual is the temple of truth, here he bashes protestants for being allowing the individuals to shape the church, from what I can see he now as an individual is shaping morality
The Church isn't anti-gay but it doesn't support this redefinition of humanity and morality that is currently being aggressively pushed down everyone's throats by the secularist and the secular culture, he just seems to have jumped on the cultural bandwagon of pretending that its ok if don't have a national morality in the country that's all.
The man is smart no doubt, and don't let that discourage listening and learning from him why modern Christianity leaves a person empty and its faults. Origin was a heretic but boy was he a genius many fathers learned a great deal from.
At the end of the day we are all sinners, so all we can do is pray for him and remember that it is Christ and his Church who shape our morality, not the government or worst yet ourselves.
Peace
That will never happen in the Orthodox church. Anyone in the Orthodox church has to strive to not fall into the sin of fornication - whether straight or gay. I would say that he still needs Spiritual Counsel. The Lord counsels us not to judge other sinners, as we also are sinners/hypocrates. However, protestant and catholic converts proposing a gay-marriage agenda within the Orthodox church have no clue how things work in Orthodoxy... WE DON'T CHANGE what's been made perfect for 2000 years. That would be to trash God's Word and Scripture throughout the Old and New Testament.
This is an incredible film, a very productive dialogue.
Very sincere expression on his face! His speech is like a sharp knife
I have been sort of wandering around, spiritually speaking. I went to a Catholic church when I was really little, and I played around with wicca/european paganism in my middle school years. I've looked into the traditions and mindset of Catholocism and Orthodoxy, and there are parts of Orthodoxy that I really like. I like the idea that icons and art project a feeling of awe, I like that the Jesus prayer is very simple and yet very personal and powerful. I like the symbolism of the three-bar cross and the tassel and colors of a traditional chotki/komboloskini. I just like the idea of prayer beads/rope in general, being a very tactile person, and enjoy making them.
The kind of odd thing though is that I've never really read the Bible. I've tried, I really have, but, and I mean no offence by this, I get sort of bored. I really don't know why. That single book has done more to shape the history of the world than any other, and isn't that long of a read really. I've read much thicker in the spanse of about a week. To pray sincerely leaves me in tears, because I know how much of a sinner I am.
My own path as of late is a bit of a scramble. I've gone back to the traditions of my father's people, namely Native American teachings, and feel a light inside that I can't get in most places. And yet I get a similar feeling listening to liturgy in Greek or Latin, and by looking at the art of the Hagia Sophia and other churches, Catholic and Orthodox alike.
I'm not ready to denounce one tradition in favor of another, but by that very admission, am I weakening my own faith? am I "cheating" on tradition? It doesn't really feel like it.
Miguel,
As someone whose path has been similar to your own in some respects, I just have a few comments for you. First, most Christians throughout history have never read the Bible. They were mostly illiterate, and only heard the readings from the Epistles and the Holy Gospel in Divine Liturgy. They also had the holy icons in the Church, which told stories in pictures. It isn't necessary to read all of the scriptures, though it's a good thing if you happen to be motivated to do so. Being a Christian is not a "Rationalistic" (with a capital R) endeavor, though reasonable discourse is as much a part of every individual Christian's faith as he cares to make it.
Second, your father's spirituality is valid, and it yields a pure and unmediated experience with the unseen, which is actually much more "weighty" than the phenomenal world that we normally apprehend. But spirituality without Christ the Logos, and the Holy Ghost, who eternally proceeds from the Father, is missing something. The Holy Spirit actually "quickens" or makes something come alive in you, and that can never be extinguished. People can "sense" the difference in you after you are Baptized and begin to attend Liturgy. The Liturgy itself dates to Saint Luke and was stabilized in the Church when the Liturgies of Saints Basil and John Chrysostom became canonical. It is a sacrament in itself, even if you have not been baptized and taken Communion, and it affects you, usually for the better. Some non-Christians are actually disoriented or even frightened by the experience of the Liturgy, even though to look at it in a video is not frightening at all.
If you decide to be baptized, you don't have to renounce your family traditions. You only have to renounce, specifically, the works of the devil right before you are baptized. Don't worry about "cheating", as if you are straddling the fence and doing something dishonorable by simply respecting your traditions.
Talk to a traditional priest, when you are ready, and ask him about preparation for holy Baptism. A good priest will welcome you to Liturgy for a while and he will know when you are ready for Baptism. There is no hurry.
Good luck and God bless you.
Mark Powell Something I've looked into is the Native American Church, which uses traditional elements (drums, sage, rattles, chants) to promote Jesus' teachings. Unfortunately, a lot of them are "Peyote Churches," which I don't criticize, the Mescalero Apache have been doing it for ages. I just prefer to have any experiences come from the source, not hallucinogens. I'm sure there are some that don't use it, but my problem is that I'm in a little podunk town that's mostly Irish and Italian Catholics (of which my mom's family is the former). Not a whole lot of resources hehe I've tried to rationalize (lowercase r) the two faiths and I think it's possible to do. The Creator is self explanatory, whether you call him Wakan Tanka, Jehova, or whatever. As for the rest, well, the original word "angelus" meant messenger. Who's to say they always look like some winged seraph or cherub? The Holy Spirit appears as a dove sometimes right? Why not an eagle?
Thanks for all the advice, Mark. You've given me a lot to think about.
Miguel Cuervo HI, as a Greek Orthodox woman who lived on an Indian Pueblo, I have come to see that our cultures are of a very similar mindset, and that both of our cultures have a strong mystical heart. My fellow Pueblo friends told me that although they were believers, the Catholic churches on the rez fell short of helping them with the spirtitual warfare they experienced resulting from the oppression of witchcraft/sorcery practiced not by the original native american way, but by some who lost their way. Anyhow, I wrote a short article you might be interested in reading titled, "Native American Pathways to Orthodoxy, " which explains my journey back to the tradition of my youth, THROUGH the Native American Indian pathway. You can find the article on our micro website at www.naocf.org (Which stands for the Native American Orthdox Fellowship. We also have a page on Facebook your welcome to check out,and we can chat some more if you like. I always liked the concept of God as The Great Spirit, and I explain in the article the idea of Orthodoxy as fulfillment to Native tradition. I'd love to hear your thoughts on these ideas. Be Blessed!
marianne poulos I'd love to read the article, but I don't think the link you sent me is working. I keep getting error messages. I did find the Facebook page though, and I'll be sure to check it out! Thank you!
I hear what your saying about the bible, I've been searching through many translations. You should try the Mirror Bible by
Francois Du Toit. It will show you that the seaching that is going on inside of you is so beautiful and total of God and what God loves about you. Peace, Love, And Hope
As Luther said, "We have everything a thousand times better in Christ." :-)
Dont forget you are following a heresy..and salvation is hard outside of the true church. God bless
I really enjoyed hearing about his journey in finding a tradition that made sense to him. His historic Church explanation really helped me understand the different emphasis’s that Eastern and Western Churches have. I still hold to my mostly Reformed thinking but it has opened me up to or at least confirming some areas that I don’t see eye to eye with in Reformed Theology.
I am a Greek Orthodox Christian who has studied the history of our church, so let me concur with everything that Mr. Shaeffer has professed to be true in this accurate video. All Glory to God Our Father. AMEN!!!
There is one true church that represents all peoples and that is the Orthodox Church!
I cite father Nathaniel, an American Jew who became Greek Orthodox! The truth is the truth and any changes whether they be procedural or customary are simply against Gods will! Do not be misguided! Jesus's words are God's words!
These Frank Schaeffer videos really should be taken down. He is not an Orthodox Christian anymore.
Kabane I think the videos should stay because Frank was clearly speaking truth here. Yes, he has since fallen away but this remains a very powerful witness to truth.
We all at some point are TEMPTED through our weakness - demons ‘spiritual warfare ‘- we then are tested to strengthen our faith - God allows these temptations to make it known to EACH OF US our shortcomings- DEMONS do not sleep or rest and will keep tempting us till judgement Day - of which our SOULS will answer to what we sowed in earth - May Our Lord have mercy on us sinners - let’s ask for intercession prayers through our LIVING SAINTS and THEOTOKOS for never losing faith hope and LOVE
LOVE- in GREEK is Α - ΓΑΠ - Ω
ΑΓΑΠΩ- the A- lpha and Ω- mega
Beginning and the END+
Glory be to God+
Wow, God Is Good & We do indeed Glorify HIM for All Things! ☺ btw, Franki,
He helped himself to be well informed andt he is very eloquent.
You are right about Frank Schaeffer. It seems to me that he has always had this urge to rebel against something. For the past decade or so he has spent his energy and time attacking and belittling other people, including his own parents who gave him life, raised him, cared for him when he was very ill, and now he has repaid them by smearing their reputation and memory. He is an ungrateful person. I am sad that some Orthodox still parade him as a convert to Orthodoxy. They ought to be ashamed.
Given the truth on man's ultimate life purpose is buried in hierarchical dogmatism and not given ready in a dish, most people get easily frustrated and give up searching on their own accord.
The way Ortho-dontist and Ortho-pedic define complete meanings, similarly Ortho-doxy is one complete word, describing millennial old proven process for immediate interrelation with the transcendent other.
In fact true "Orthodoxy" is one's own pragmatism based self awakening realization and never blind belief on hierarchical religion, like, Orthodox Buddhist, Orthodox Hindu, Orthodox Mohammedanism and other.
The statement "Orthodox Christianity" people commonly use is sheer paraphrase, of each man's ultimate self realization individually, into seeking approval in hierarchical dogmatism.
Clearly, true Orthodoxy is applicable process on optimum life realization for each one individually here and now into eternity and not belief system of masses, deifying dogmatism.
Simply, true Orthodoxy means of self expanding one's own contemporary cognizance, to realize here and now, pragmatic everlasting Christhood. In that, Christhood is each man's innate and thereon eternal ultimate attainment, surpassing all religious belief systems attributed to deities and all ideologies men keep on deifying.
+gourglisou sopa That was a very beautiful and well put statement.
+Mikhail Kolitwenzew
2 1/2 weeks ago some cult style Baptist preacher with a youtube channel sanderson1611 put out videos mocking the Orthodox .
I'm actually a Baptist who used to follow his sermons until he went completely demonic on the Orthodox bashing video . He mocks the "Jesus prayer"?!?! Very disgusting .
Please find his vids and give them down votes.
Thankyou
God Bless
+Yvonne Theresa
BUT ...just keep in mind that he deleted most comments which criticized him or explained Orthodoxy . However he CAN NOT delete a down vote.
Please down vote these horrible videos.
Instead of doing this...it is better to pray for him. St Paisios said ...our pray should be like the train...you are the driver of the train...and you pray for all the people that they are in the train...
ON PRAYING
Pray as self induction, or self awakening ?
If self induction, how one avoids being enclosed in cocoon of matrix?
If self awakening, establish palpable means at overcoming intricate setting of self pretending. In that, only by daily """""sense realization"""" of the divine love that is ""...the heavenly bread to us essential, provide daily,,,""' can overcome countless wrongdoings that NOW become clearly apparent AND overly upsetting.
From, Ellymeus
Thank you for your reply. I will look closely at the Synonds.
May the Lord Bless you.
I'm here because of N.T Wright, so he always speaks very highly of the Orthodox Church.
This video it's worth a watching.
Thank you for uploading this.
ALL OTHER THE CREEDS WILL VANISH,JUST WILL REMAIN HOLY ORTHODOX A FAITH!!!
Thank you Frank, what a wonderful insight you gave me about my faith, even though i knew its historically true and original way of worship, i was not knowing the richness of my faith which is not distorted one like other denominations for their convenience.
GOD BLESS YOU BROTHER FRANK SCHAEFFER!
one real insightful discussion for Orthodoxy, that sheds lights historical, theological and in our daily lives aspects since the 1st century AD of the true christinaty
Does he ever take a breath lol
Why my friend you spread lies?
ONLY ORTHODOXY!!!
+gig gina
_'One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism'_ - Ephesians 4_5
I'm Catholic and love learning about all religions
This Man speaks the Truth...=)
Great Video Thank you for posting
And just like that, he's an atheist again. I LOVE the Orthodox Church, but Frank Schaeffer is a nut job... not to mention a rude jerk. Not really the sort of "mouth piece" Holy Orthodoxy needs. But as I said, he has pretty much renounced his faith from what I understand and has gone back to being atheist/agnostic
Honestly, I wouldn't walk to the end of my driveway to hear the man speak
I just read about that. I was raised protestant fundamentalist and it really can destroy a person's mental faculties. I follow the Orthodox Church privately, both Eastern and Coptic. I'm too old to be accepted as a member, but I can still follow Orthodoxy the best I can. Thank Iesous for leading me to it.
@Gy Bx
You're never to old to be accepte as a member in the Orthodox Church.
Wow, so because Protestants and Catholics speak definitively about certain aspects of God, even though our definitions are diametrically opposed, we're closer to each other theologically than Catholics are to Orthodox simply because we both have definitions? That's like saying American foreign policy is more similar to Russian foreign policy than it is to Canadian because America and Russia both have nuclear weapons. I suppose, if you have no definitions of who God is, then controversy within your communion is fairly difficult. Was this Eastern aversion to defining God present during the development of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity? What about the Real Presence? This not wanting to "put God in a box" seems an awful convenience for a communion that hasn't been able to convoke a council for a thousand years. Does the filioque put God in a box? Because the Orthodox who harp on that seem to have actual doctrinal opposition to it, not just an objection to there being a definition.
Right. Just like when scientists disagree on a particular theory of biology, or physics, or geology it proves life, matter, or planets don't exist. Hey, Republicans and Democrats disagree on the optimal role of American government; I guess government doesn't exist. Haven't been long on the logical argumentation train have ya?
NESTOR POTKINE There is one truth. Not everyone knows it; hence the disagreements. This is common to every field of human intellectual endeavor, even the hard sciences. Ignorance of and disagreements about the truth of a subject do not logically preclude the existence of said truth nor said subject. There is nothing logically contrary to a god's existence in said god's not smacking Nestor in the face with it.
Squiddy, and obviously India and Pakistan have similar foreign policy because of their nuclear weapons. And the same with the United Kingdom and North Korea. Excellent point you make.
Top marks, Nestor. "God doesn't exist because I don't like him very much and he doesn't do what I want him to. And let me summarize by conveniently contradicting myself when I assert the supremacy of reality over its perception in formal logic as a rebuttal to an axiom of reality that truth exists despite how it's perceived."
God bless you!!!
How this man has changed...
Sad isn't it...
He is really good, well spoken and we'll educated on this.
I love watching this Interview. I think mainly because of the interviewer is clearly sympathetic to Orthodoxy himself. When I heard the interview he gave with Kevin Allen, it made even more sense, haha.
Frank just GETS it. He is a brother. Glory to God.
Not anymore he isn't
I wish we had an Orthodox church in my largely Mormon, Protestant, and Catholic rural Arizona town. I have issues with some Catholic theology but yrs of going to Protestant churches has created barriers I have to overcome. I still have my mothers and Yia Yia's Greek Orthodox icons but our half German father insisted we all be raised Lutheran, with a yr spent at a Greek Orthodox church at 6-7. I'll try to go to the Tucson Greek Orthodox church over an hour from us this Sunday.
You should go to the monastery pf saint Antony in Arizona. God bless❤