@@joeystar8888 i heard of the NZ ground crew for their NH-90 that the Australian ground crews had very little idea what they were doing when it comes to looking after the taipans
NH90 were be workhorse like Seakings, blackhawks were tactical different as NH90 didn't come with SF operations although there was early on joint SF plan NH90 with French help. Australian baseline, manufacturing, sustainability was different to NZ NH90, just like with Seasprite the RAN had complexes capability, when NZ got hold of them they went basic, flight operations were limited.
MRH-90 Taipans. There was an existing Australian and UK Security Agreement before AUKUS that included that all Australian equipment would be offered to the UK. There is no indication that was ever complied with and should be complied with for the remaining airframes. There are a substantial number of countries that Airbus were attempting to sell very similiar models of helicopter at the time including the UK New Medium Helicopter of up to 44 medium-lift support helicopters to replace the Westland Puma HC2. If there are fourteen remaining in Townsville is it not prudent to ask that their recycling and destruction be immediately halted until the Auditor-General has formed an opinion which is assuredly more independent and worthwhile than the opinion of Airbus?
Senator, what are your thoughts on RAAF Base Woomera being without power or personnel for three weeks in late October? There is no back up plan, we just ship people and families away.
Don't you just love the Ribbon bars of these Senior General's, Admiral's who ALWAYS have the mandatory AC, AO, DSC, DSM, CSC, CSM's. If they ONLY have one it would seem that they have been left behind. And when you actually read into their citations they get the higher awards for doing the EXACT SAME JOBS but just in the higher rank.
Kerry Packer summed it up so well ‘Anyone who didn’t at least try to their reduce tax needs their head read, because Governments don’t spend it wisely’
LNP purchased in 2001. And was responsible for over 22 years. And now questioning current govt what went wrong!!, LNP should reimburse Auusies for their monumental stuff ups!
As an Australian Remote Area fireman.... i wouldn't get in a taipan helo. My life and service is more important than crashing. Tha ADF needs a kick in the arse, as does the Federal Government.
There's always been something fishy about the burial of airframes, like the Taipans, just like there was with the F-111's. I reckon it's a case of the US doing a 'humiliation' ritual.
Had nothing to do with the HUDs…everything to do with not being able to communicate via links 16 and 22 from the get go. Designed and built with Eurolink…works perfectly in NATO battle forces…not allied/coalition
These Military Desk Jockeys need to be pressed & pressed hard during questioning. This may appear to be satisfactory to most but it severely lacks detail & substance. No good enough if your throwing away hard earned taxpayer money. More accountability & scrutiny required.
We should never have purchased them in the first place. The ADF should have continued with the Blackhawk. The Navy continued with the S70 R aka “Romeo” variant.
@@Iwishiwasflying and SF guys know what about flying? The MRH isnt a SF platform, its a battlefield support helicopter. If you use a platform for a role it was not designed for then the issue is not with the platform, but the operator.
@ are you serious? The ADF purchased a helo that DID NOT meet the requirements at all. It doesn’t matter if you are referring to grunts or SF. They all use the basic principles of battlefield tactics. If you seriously think because the SF don’t know anything about flying, you my learned friend are on crack.
Selling the MRH-90 to another operator would have made a lie of the story they were unsafe and unsupportable. Which of course was the excuse to get rid of them and buy more Blackhawks. New Zealand operates them perfectly well, and has operated them perfectly well in Australia and off ships. The only thing wrong with the 90s is that they weren't American and they weren't Blackhawks, which is to say the only thing wrong with them was certain elements within the ADF had ulterior motives to paint them as unsuitable.
Hit the nail on the head. The Blackhawk generation didn’t want it, they found a way to get rid of it. Defence has never achieved something so fast, as to how quickly these aircraft were stripped and destroyed.
@@nzgunnie So true my friend, the army just wanted to bury the evidence and not be proven incompetent. The Kiwi’s proved that when the acquired the Seasprites
@@jasonmilne6920 also pisses me off when its wasn't even the aircraft fault with the most recent crash, and i hate that the govt just buying US as a bench line without seeing if their are better options around
Nobody mentions the almost tragic disaster that would have seen the CDF killed in a MRH90 crash over water several years ago. 5 minutes into the flight from the deck of our LH ship and the the ACFT started shuddering violently. The decision was made to return to the ship immediately. Upon investigation, it was found that the tail rotor was starting to delaminate and break apart. It was later found that more MRH90 had the same condition. There were not enough spare parts to fit out the ACFT with serviceable tail rotors so the decision was made to pirate other ACFT to keep the fleet flying. The manufacturer knew of this but didn’t tell Australia until after it was discovered. Other nations already knew, but not us.
@@nythawkau Here we have two right wing conspiracy theorists here that somehow think Russia, the eternal enemy of the west, is somehow the injured party. Almost certainly boomers and certainly worth avoiding and ignoring.
ADF tried the excuse that they would be too expensive and difficult for Ukraine to operate and maintain, Ukraine said they would literally operate them exactly like New Zealand in reply...
What was the projected life span of these helicopters, Where any faults found in the stripped down helicopters , what did the accident report discover its either mechanical or pilot error ?
It was new software integrated into the smart helmets for the pilots that was pushed out far too fast to meet deadlines and it had already been paid for and thus was faulty. The Taipan that crashed was flying at night, the helmet heads us display gave some incorrect readings which caused a crash into the water. The software that cause the crash is called TopOwl 5.10
@@Praktical_it didn’t cause the crash. I played a role in the crash. The aircraft is still fine to fly, and the pilots still have the relevant information on the display screens. The top owl is an aid. You’re blaming the aircraft as a single failure. If there was a problem with the aircraft Airbus would have been forced to ground the fleet globally. That did not occur, 2 days NZ stopped flying for.
The HUD caused the pilots to lose situational awareness which is obviously vital at night and the bad weather only made the issue worse. There is an actual ex ADF pilot who explains it on here and covers how the normal HUD system keeps all the relevant info facing forward whereas with the modified Australian version the info follows where ever the pilot looks. ADF had previously been warned during trials that this could pose significant risk under certain conditions but ran with the system anyway. Not the helicopters fault, it goes where the pilot directs it and the pilots fly where the instruments (in this case the HUD) tell them.
The taipan was a very capable aircraft. It far outshone the capability of the Blackhawk, but BUT, the operators and technicians were never fully bought in. The logistic and support for the aircraft are exactly like the abrahms when it came in. Terrible. And as always instead of blaming the right people others were used. With the Blackhawk, we got them because we are using more and more American equipment. It’s actually horrifying when you look at it. We use now more USA equipment than anything else. I used to teach on the Abrahms at puckapunyal for many years as driving and servicing, gunnery, and commanding. Compared to what we had with the leopards to what we got we lost far far more. Yes leopards are outdated, but we could have had Leo 2 which would have only enhanced what we already knew and were known throughout the world for. Our bush driving and our skill. Instead we went abrahms, good tank yes for desert and open fields, terrible for Australian bush. Point is this. They never ask any operators.
The aircraft could not be donated or even sold because that would have required someone to see the maintenance logs.... and then the truth about our incompetence would be made public. The ADF didn't dispose of the aircraft.... they disposed of the maintenance logs.
David is there chance ADF could save small number NH90 for non military use like old Seakings, maybe 7? Search/Rescue, firefighting n flood relief. How many more NH90 going aviation museums?
The main issue with the aviation corps is they have zero understanding of how to manage a fleet. Get this in 2007 the then Aviation BDE if it still exists had the sum total of 3 officers in its headquarters ringing up a Tankie to ask about how to live fire airframes. Zero enlisted members on their staff who are SME’s in the technical aspects of everything the ADF operates, the Officer Corps doesn’t have any idea how things work, just like a doctor has zero idea of how a MRI machine is constructed and works. But we all know who could tell us, and who could help procure a new updated one. Way too many Officers to doer ratio in the ADF it’s turned into a griftathon with Star ranks offered remuneration based on a bonus system set by civilians who have zero interest in capability and every interest in their negotiated salary package tied to cost and efficiency gains irrespective of in field performance. It’s the self licking ice cream that keeps on giving the same useless utility no warfighter wants or even asked for.
All of the MRH incidents were operator caused not type specific. The first incident was attributed to hot starting, a process not good for any helicopter and the manufacturer actually came up with a software upgrade immediately to fix by literally stopping hot starts which the ADF was slow to roll out which then lead to the second incident because that particular MRH hadn't had the upgrade and was then made worse by the pilot inadvertently shutting down the wrong (good) engine causing it to ditch into the ocean. The 3rd incident (crash) was caused by an Australian specific helmet HUD issue which they knew about so again not the actual helicopter but user error.
yet another cluster by DMO with procurement of key assets. Taipans, Tigers, AWD, Seasprite on and on, Defence recommends a capability with preferred option and the bean counters go with cheapest option everytime even if it is junk.
Have not seen people use paper folders for 10ys. Time we uplifted the Defence force to meet modern requirements. We have a legacy of poorly funding our fighting troops with regards to equipment including weapons and vehicles.
The Taipan saga has been an absolute disgrace from start to finish! I firmly am of the opinion that they should have been donated to Ukraine. The reason they weren’t was to not show up the ineptitude of the ADF in failure to properly sustain and operate the equipment effectively . I’m all for a strongly supported defence force and sovereign capability... but for FFS stop pissing away tax dollars , sitting on your hands with countless reviews and give the Australian people an effective deterrent / defence force!
I have no doubts that Ukraine could have successfully operated most of Australia's original 47? MRH-90 Taipan fleet by scavenging parts from a portion of that fleet and by gaining assistance from existing European users of the NHIndustries NH90 helicopter and from the manufacturer. Army, the Defence Department and the Australian federal government made a major error by so rashly destroying these helicopters that had so many useful flight hours remaining.
People have no idea what it takes to run complex aircraft. Do ukraine have simulators to train the pilots on that exact helicopter? Cabinet's full of manuals? Spares? Diagnostic equipment? Trained maintenance crews? Tools? No. They have none of those things. It is a mammoth effort to do all this. You can't just hand over a helicopter and say good luck! You have no idea.
So the helmet upgrade will terminate the craft because of acquisition error and poor implementation? The rotor craft is fine, just a cover-up to protect the senior staff.
They actually didnt want them and who could blame them, the MRH is quite obviously a faulty deathtrap that doesnt fly?...well according to this panel of experts as well as a few on here they seemingly are. Guess we'll never really know now considering they were all buried in the sand so quickly and efficiently...
I understand costs should be recovered but seriously... Why aren't they going into parks? Kids would go nuts for a stripped down helicopter. You'd get untold numbers hooked on aviation which drives education and even for the ADF that could lead to a larger pool of recruits.
It astounds me how much money has been wasted on failed helicopter programs in Australia. The failed Navy Super Sea-sprites program ($2Billion wasted), Aussie Tigers (to be withdrawn 10 years too early) and now the Taipans, which were selected for one reason only, so that they could be 'built' in Queensland. They have been unloved and unsuitable ever since they were brought into service. No Wonder the Army wanted to bury them at the first available opportunity. Another $4Billion wasted.
Classified The government should always give defense there first choice It should not be left to politicians to decide They don’t comprehend May I have an upgrade
That "Major General" looks like a Uni student in dress up and his every third word "Ah'" would have got his arse kicked in my Arty Sig school back in '74. His mate on his right has enough medal ribbons it seems like his career must have started on the Somme back in 1916 !
Not the first time Australia has done this. Same with the seasprite saga and that was a well proven type already in service! ADF just tries to get too clever and cutting edge with capabilities for their own good with catastrophic results! All the gear and no idea! or is it a case of too many ideas instead of just calling a spade a spade and just digging a hole?
I don’t think Ukraine could operate these. They are very technical aircraft. Some aspects still classified. Allies would want sent to Russia. Former Eastern Bloc nations would have rotary wing aircraft already used and suited by Ukraine as they upgrade to western aircraft. Ukraine needs more rudimentary and rustic aircraft that don’t need so much maintenance.
That was the initial excuses for the US not sending M1 Abrams and F-16s as well but in reality the US just didn't want the flaws shown up in actual combat against a peer nation for once. In Australias case they just didnt want the embarrassment of Ukraine actually getting them flying in a warzone as that would have literally dis-proven their entire reasoning of getting rid of the $billion MRH capability in the first place. Taxpayers will only stomach gross negligence with adequate or at least mediocre excuses at least otherwise heads will roll, from the top down.
The list of ADF stuff ups is endless. No checks or balances in place. You may blame governments, but ultimately they rely on ADF advice. Which is mostly flawed , looking at history. Helicopters, fighter jets , landing crafts , frigates, ordinance , submarines. The list is endless.
It's a shame we can't make our own helicopters. Are we not smart enough? Does our current political leadership not believe in our own people or is there insufficient political will, to build our own defensive capabilities? We bring all of these people to our Universities to learn from us, but we can't make a helicopter. We don't make our own car. Excuses .. we are too small; our market isn't big enough; we can't compete against the labour costs in Asia. Well, we used to have protections for that. Gov't has that ability. People do want to do business here.
I'm actually working on a prototype, although small in size. I could produce 500 for the price of one Crapache. Military in Australia is run by the US. They are closing down Australian owned manufacturers.
The issue I have is that these Taipans as well as the Tigers are in use by other armed forces without issues. New Zealand uses Taipans. Why are they so problematic here or did we just not procure enough parts or is Australia just a harsh and awful environment for aircraft built in less dusty and extreme environments? We had maintenance issues with Black Hawks when first relocated to hot and humid and dusty Townsville. Maybe relocate them to Brisbane. Keep your good stuff behind front lines not in the tropics.
This was always a bad purchase and having served in the Army for 30 plus years an in an out helicopters , this helicopter ( Taipan) was always a bad investment. It was originally designed as a civilian aircraft and trying militarise this platform was like turning a cat into dog. The real reason was this was a pork barrel decision made by Kevin Rudd when he was PM for his electorate. Soldiers were injured and lost lives in this platform and people should be concerned when government makes these decisions,because equipment is replacement is possible not Defence personnel lives.
Wrong, the MRH was a military helicopter from the outset. The problem is the operator and the blackhawk Mafia that discredited the MRH to justify replacement. The Kiwis are successfully operating their MRHs. MRH, Seapsrite, Tiger have all been mismanaged as platforms by the ADF.
@@TheOne23_ and just giving them a free place to live will not solve all their problems. they require rehabilitation so they can stand of their own two feet and be productive members of society.
Should have never even got the Taipans in the first place
F35 are the new taipans……
@@notathome13 No, they really aren't.
@@joeystar8888 i heard of the NZ ground crew for their NH-90 that the Australian ground crews had very little idea what they were doing when it comes to looking after the taipans
NH90 were be workhorse like Seakings, blackhawks were tactical different as NH90 didn't come with SF operations although there was early on joint SF plan NH90 with French help. Australian baseline, manufacturing, sustainability was different to NZ NH90, just like with Seasprite the RAN had complexes capability, when NZ got hold of them they went basic, flight operations were limited.
@@notathome13no they aren’t
9.10. Excellent question senator. 👍👍
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Thanks Senator
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Should be questioning little Johnny Howard and Brendon Nelson!!!
I was born a Fawcett and I am proud of your service Senator Fawcett 👏
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Thank heavens for people like Senator fawcett. These people must be made responsible to the taxpayer for their actions.
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Good work senator
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
MRH-90 Taipans. There was an existing Australian and UK Security Agreement before AUKUS that included that all Australian equipment would be offered to the UK. There is no indication that was ever complied with and should be complied with for the remaining airframes. There are a substantial number of countries that Airbus were attempting to sell very similiar models of helicopter at the time including the UK New Medium Helicopter of up to 44 medium-lift support helicopters to replace the Westland Puma HC2. If there are fourteen remaining in Townsville is it not prudent to ask that their recycling and destruction be immediately halted until the Auditor-General has formed an opinion which is assuredly more independent and worthwhile than the opinion of Airbus?
The British don't want Tiapans, the only aircraft under consideration is the Leonardo AW149
Love your work dave
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Senator, what are your thoughts on RAAF Base Woomera being without power or personnel for three weeks in late October? There is no back up plan, we just ship people and families away.
Don't you just love the Ribbon bars of these Senior General's, Admiral's who ALWAYS have the mandatory AC, AO, DSC, DSM, CSC, CSM's. If they ONLY have one it would seem that they have been left behind. And when you actually read into their citations they get the higher awards for doing the EXACT SAME JOBS but just in the higher rank.
Kerry Packer summed it up so well ‘Anyone who didn’t at least try to their reduce tax needs their head read, because Governments don’t spend it wisely’
LNP purchased in 2001. And was responsible for over 22 years. And now questioning current govt what went wrong!!, LNP should reimburse Auusies for their monumental stuff ups!
Pathetic, incompetent ADF
It's the upper level officers , not the guys on the ground who are incompetent
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
As an Australian Remote Area fireman.... i wouldn't get in a taipan helo. My life and service is more important than crashing. Tha ADF needs a kick in the arse, as does the Federal Government.
What helo would you get on?
Ah, as a remote area fireman u r an expert on helicopters?
@@nzgunnie Probably a R22.....
You realise the blackhawk has a far worse safety history?
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
There's always been something fishy about the burial of airframes, like the Taipans, just like there was with the F-111's. I reckon it's a case of the US doing a 'humiliation' ritual.
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Should have kept the tipans. Just needed to scrap the hud helmets.
Had nothing to do with the HUDs…everything to do with not being able to communicate via links 16 and 22 from the get go. Designed and built with Eurolink…works perfectly in NATO battle forces…not allied/coalition
Great questions and once again nobody is being held accountable for the original decision to buy.
He's more pushing the point about why they were destroyed at all not why they were bought in the first place.
I saw a taipan yesterday if you want photos
These Military Desk Jockeys need to be pressed & pressed hard during questioning. This may appear to be satisfactory to most but it severely lacks detail & substance. No good enough if your throwing away hard earned taxpayer money. More accountability & scrutiny required.
We should never have purchased them in the first place. The ADF should have continued with the Blackhawk. The Navy continued with the S70 R aka “Romeo” variant.
PM John Howard.
Nothing wrong with the MRH...
@@jasonmilne6920 rofl really ? Are you serious ? Go ask the SF “guys” and you will change your mind quickly.
@@Iwishiwasflying and SF guys know what about flying? The MRH isnt a SF platform, its a battlefield support helicopter. If you use a platform for a role it was not designed for then the issue is not with the platform, but the operator.
@ are you serious? The ADF purchased a helo that DID NOT meet the requirements at all. It doesn’t matter if you are referring to grunts or SF. They all use the basic principles of battlefield tactics. If you seriously think because the SF don’t know anything about flying, you my learned friend are on crack.
Selling the MRH-90 to another operator would have made a lie of the story they were unsafe and unsupportable. Which of course was the excuse to get rid of them and buy more Blackhawks.
New Zealand operates them perfectly well, and has operated them perfectly well in Australia and off ships.
The only thing wrong with the 90s is that they weren't American and they weren't Blackhawks, which is to say the only thing wrong with them was certain elements within the ADF had ulterior motives to paint them as unsuitable.
Hit the nail on the head. The Blackhawk generation didn’t want it, they found a way to get rid of it. Defence has never achieved something so fast, as to how quickly these aircraft were stripped and destroyed.
@@nzgunnie So true my friend, the army just wanted to bury the evidence and not be proven incompetent. The Kiwi’s proved that when the acquired the Seasprites
The Kiwi NH-90s have the most flight hours on the frames aswell and NZ seems to be having limited issues
@ Kiwi can do attitude at its best
@@jasonmilne6920 also pisses me off when its wasn't even the aircraft fault with the most recent crash, and i hate that the govt just buying US as a bench line without seeing if their are better options around
No country that bought the MRH 90 has been satisfied or found it to meet operational requirements.
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
What a criminal waste.
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Nobody mentions the almost tragic disaster that would have seen the CDF killed in a MRH90 crash over water several years ago.
5 minutes into the flight from the deck of our LH ship and the the ACFT started shuddering violently. The decision was made to return to the ship immediately. Upon investigation, it was found that the tail rotor was starting to delaminate and break apart.
It was later found that more MRH90 had the same condition. There were not enough spare parts to fit out the ACFT with serviceable tail rotors so the decision was made to pirate other ACFT to keep the fleet flying.
The manufacturer knew of this but didn’t tell Australia until after it was discovered. Other nations already knew, but not us.
They weren't replaced according to their maintenance schedule. If replaced as intended there would be no issue
Why would you "pirate" other NH90s? Wouldn't you just fly THOSE NH90s?? And who are these other countries out of interest?
This is unusual, questions are getting answered!
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
When was this brought to the Australian people to give their opinion on if they could be sent to Ukraine?
You should read up about the West's war in Ukraine
@@TheInvoice123wat?
@@nythawkauruso simp spewing nonsense, pay no mind.
@@nythawkau Here we have two right wing conspiracy theorists here that somehow think Russia, the eternal enemy of the west, is somehow the injured party. Almost certainly boomers and certainly worth avoiding and ignoring.
Ignore them, they are rubes. Putin has also convinced them that Poland started WW2 by not giving Hitler Danzig.
should have given them to Ukraine
ADF tried the excuse that they would be too expensive and difficult for Ukraine to operate and maintain, Ukraine said they would literally operate them exactly like New Zealand in reply...
What was the projected life span of these helicopters, Where any faults found in the stripped down helicopters , what did the accident report discover its either mechanical or pilot error ?
It was new software integrated into the smart helmets for the pilots that was pushed out far too fast to meet deadlines and it had already been paid for and thus was faulty. The Taipan that crashed was flying at night, the helmet heads us display gave some incorrect readings which caused a crash into the water. The software that cause the crash is called TopOwl 5.10
@@Praktical_it didn’t cause the crash. I played a role in the crash. The aircraft is still fine to fly, and the pilots still have the relevant information on the display screens. The top owl is an aid. You’re blaming the aircraft as a single failure. If there was a problem with the aircraft Airbus would have been forced to ground the fleet globally. That did not occur, 2 days NZ stopped flying for.
The HUD caused the pilots to lose situational awareness which is obviously vital at night and the bad weather only made the issue worse. There is an actual ex ADF pilot who explains it on here and covers how the normal HUD system keeps all the relevant info facing forward whereas with the modified Australian version the info follows where ever the pilot looks. ADF had previously been warned during trials that this could pose significant risk under certain conditions but ran with the system anyway. Not the helicopters fault, it goes where the pilot directs it and the pilots fly where the instruments (in this case the HUD) tell them.
Regardless of any political military decisions, they could have at least sold them on the private market
Great questions!!
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
The taipan was a very capable aircraft. It far outshone the capability of the Blackhawk, but BUT, the operators and technicians were never fully bought in. The logistic and support for the aircraft are exactly like the abrahms when it came in. Terrible. And as always instead of blaming the right people others were used.
With the Blackhawk, we got them because we are using more and more American equipment. It’s actually horrifying when you look at it. We use now more USA equipment than anything else. I used to teach on the Abrahms at puckapunyal for many years as driving and servicing, gunnery, and commanding. Compared to what we had with the leopards to what we got we lost far far more. Yes leopards are outdated, but we could have had Leo 2 which would have only enhanced what we already knew and were known throughout the world for. Our bush driving and our skill. Instead we went abrahms, good tank yes for desert and open fields, terrible for Australian bush.
Point is this. They never ask any operators.
We are being prepared for US invasion.
The aircraft could not be donated or even sold because that would have required someone to see the maintenance logs.... and then the truth about our incompetence would be made public. The ADF didn't dispose of the aircraft.... they disposed of the maintenance logs.
David is there chance ADF could save small number NH90 for non military use like old Seakings, maybe 7? Search/Rescue, firefighting n flood relief. How many more NH90 going aviation museums?
It’s a good job we’re running trillion dollar budget surpluses so we can bury our procurement mistakes. Oh wait…
You'd think a Lt Gen would be able ro avoid ands ums and ahhs
The main issue with the aviation corps is they have zero understanding of how to manage a fleet.
Get this in 2007 the then Aviation BDE if it still exists had the sum total of 3 officers in its headquarters ringing up a Tankie to ask about how to live fire airframes.
Zero enlisted members on their staff who are SME’s in the technical aspects of everything the ADF operates, the Officer Corps doesn’t have any idea how things work, just like a doctor has zero idea of how a MRI machine is constructed and works. But we all know who could tell us, and who could help procure a new updated one.
Way too many Officers to doer ratio in the ADF it’s turned into a griftathon with Star ranks offered remuneration based on a bonus system set by civilians who have zero interest in capability and every interest in their negotiated salary package tied to cost and efficiency gains irrespective of in field performance.
It’s the self licking ice cream that keeps on giving the same useless utility no warfighter wants or even asked for.
Any truth to the rumour the problem wasn't the Taipan as such, but the interfacing to the NVH?
All of the MRH incidents were operator caused not type specific. The first incident was attributed to hot starting, a process not good for any helicopter and the manufacturer actually came up with a software upgrade immediately to fix by literally stopping hot starts which the ADF was slow to roll out which then lead to the second incident because that particular MRH hadn't had the upgrade and was then made worse by the pilot inadvertently shutting down the wrong (good) engine causing it to ditch into the ocean. The 3rd incident (crash) was caused by an Australian specific helmet HUD issue which they knew about so again not the actual helicopter but user error.
I’m pretty sure someone’s got their ranks crossed.
Norway also got caught with these units .but got in early for adequate compo...howzat?
yet another cluster by DMO with procurement of key assets. Taipans, Tigers, AWD, Seasprite on and on, Defence recommends a capability with preferred option and the bean counters go with cheapest option everytime even if it is junk.
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
This is the personnel that are supposed to protect the country....very very pathetic! Those aircraft could have been transferred to Ukraine!
@@stoso9864that was the dumbest comment I've read all day. Congratulations.
Also, time to grab a dictionary.
They couldn't have transferred them, as it would disprove the belief that they are unsafe, then the Army would have to admit they are lying.
@@slickstrings your grammar isn't any better LOL
Have not seen people use paper folders for 10ys. Time we uplifted the Defence force to meet modern requirements. We have a legacy of poorly funding our fighting troops with regards to equipment including weapons and vehicles.
The Taipan saga has been an absolute disgrace from start to finish! I firmly am of the opinion that they should have been donated to Ukraine. The reason they weren’t was to not show up the ineptitude of the ADF in failure to properly sustain and operate the equipment effectively .
I’m all for a strongly supported defence force and sovereign capability... but for FFS stop pissing away tax dollars , sitting on your hands with countless reviews and give the Australian people an effective deterrent / defence force!
like this guy
Donate to Ukraine they have the smarts to fix and fly!
I have no doubts that Ukraine could have successfully operated most of Australia's original 47? MRH-90 Taipan fleet by scavenging parts from a portion of that fleet and by gaining assistance from existing European users of the NHIndustries NH90 helicopter and from the manufacturer. Army, the Defence Department and the Australian federal government made a major error by so rashly destroying these helicopters that had so many useful flight hours remaining.
People have no idea what it takes to run complex aircraft.
Do ukraine have simulators to train the pilots on that exact helicopter? Cabinet's full of manuals? Spares? Diagnostic equipment? Trained maintenance crews? Tools?
No. They have none of those things. It is a mammoth effort to do all this. You can't just hand over a helicopter and say good luck!
You have no idea.
@@slickstrings Quite frankly Ukraine has more expertise to maintain and operate such helicopters than Australia.
All those things are much easier to obtain in Europe where the aircraft is designed and manufactured
@@zachfpv4493 it's not manufactured there any more, and there's no support from the vendor for this model
@@Ocker3 still easier to run and maintain aircraft in Europe.Australia is one of the worst places for logistics and manufacturing.
So was there was pressure to buy BlackHawks as part of AUKUS?
Yes. The US stated they want our equipment to be compatible with their forces. We have wrong hand drive vehicles now also.
@@chippyjohn1 anyone who gets into bed with the USA is sleeping with a double edged sword.
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Send them to NZ for bits?
So they are selling parts hey, Ive got a craving for a turbine thanks, how do i place a bid? Itd go nicely on the back of my car.
Can a civilian buy the enjine ss for science project
So the helmet upgrade will terminate the craft because of acquisition error and poor implementation? The rotor craft is fine, just a cover-up to protect the senior staff.
How long does it take to investigate and determine the true cost
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Instead of destroying them you could maybe have given some to the New Zealand Airforce they seen to be able to maintain theres ok.
They have all they need
The army always had trouble maintaining their helicopters because have put army fittnes above maintaining.
They actually didnt want them and who could blame them, the MRH is quite obviously a faulty deathtrap that doesnt fly?...well according to this panel of experts as well as a few on here they seemingly are. Guess we'll never really know now considering they were all buried in the sand so quickly and efficiently...
I understand costs should be recovered but seriously... Why aren't they going into parks?
Kids would go nuts for a stripped down helicopter. You'd get untold numbers hooked on aviation which drives education and even for the ADF that could lead to a larger pool of recruits.
It would be even more embarrassing for ADF if children got MRH flying so they couldn't take the risk!
Depressing
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Can someone clear house in defence procurement? Maybe just helicopters? Between these and the tiger
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
It astounds me how much money has been wasted on failed helicopter programs in Australia. The failed Navy Super Sea-sprites program ($2Billion wasted), Aussie Tigers (to be withdrawn 10 years too early) and now the Taipans, which were selected for one reason only, so that they could be 'built' in Queensland. They have been unloved and unsuitable ever since they were brought into service. No Wonder the Army wanted to bury them at the first available opportunity. Another $4Billion wasted.
It's what happens when public servants with political masters and no operational knowledge decide on systems.
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Perhaps ADF should send the tigers to NZ then and they can get those flying as well?
Anyone know why they kept crashing? Was it pilot error? Whats the go?
Modifications and poor maintenance including lack of training
Crashed once. You sound like an army colonel....
@@regregan6852 kk
taipans usually get you twice in the same instance slippery snake
Probably in the Land Fill with the other embarrassing purchases
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Classified
The government should always give defense there first choice
It should not be left to politicians to decide
They don’t comprehend
May I have an upgrade
Defence* First choice was the Taipan.
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
how come the Army spokesmen are festooned with medals.
That "Major General" looks like a Uni student in dress up and his every third word "Ah'" would have got his arse kicked in my Arty Sig school back in '74. His mate on his right has enough medal ribbons it seems like his career must have started on the Somme back in 1916 !
There's too much cover up and red tape.., questions are not answered directly.., there's always a political answer..,😢
THESE KILLER CHOPPERS WERE BOUGHT BY THE LIBERAL/NAT COLAITION. AGAINST every experts advice to go with Blackhawks.
They even bought MORE in 2006.
Massive waste of money. Nothing wrong with this aircraft. It was the equipment added
Not the first time Australia has done this. Same with the seasprite saga and that was a well proven type already in service! ADF just tries to get too clever and cutting edge with capabilities for their own good with catastrophic results! All the gear and no idea! or is it a case of too many ideas instead of just calling a spade a spade and just digging a hole?
Stealing from tax payers should be a crime sir
Absolute embarrassment that they we not just donated to Ukraine
I don’t think Ukraine could operate these. They are very technical aircraft. Some aspects still classified. Allies would want sent to Russia. Former Eastern Bloc nations would have rotary wing aircraft already used and suited by Ukraine as they upgrade to western aircraft. Ukraine needs more rudimentary and rustic aircraft that don’t need so much maintenance.
That was the initial excuses for the US not sending M1 Abrams and F-16s as well but in reality the US just didn't want the flaws shown up in actual combat against a peer nation for once. In Australias case they just didnt want the embarrassment of Ukraine actually getting them flying in a warzone as that would have literally dis-proven their entire reasoning of getting rid of the $billion MRH capability in the first place. Taxpayers will only stomach gross negligence with adequate or at least mediocre excuses at least otherwise heads will roll, from the top down.
Donated to what???
It's interesting people and gov want to blame the helicopters when it is out gov fault, they shouldn't had been flying to begin with..
What a waste of money.
Amazing that one can get to these ranks in the Army without the ability to speak confidently whatsoever...UM, UM
The list of ADF stuff ups is endless. No checks or balances in place. You may blame governments, but ultimately they rely on ADF advice. Which is mostly flawed , looking at history. Helicopters, fighter jets , landing crafts , frigates, ordinance , submarines.
The list is endless.
Ukraine was asking for them
Every other country operating them has been happy with them
Ukraine could use them
It's a shame we can't make our own helicopters. Are we not smart enough? Does our current political leadership not believe in our own people or is there insufficient political will, to build our own defensive capabilities? We bring all of these people to our Universities to learn from us, but we can't make a helicopter. We don't make our own car. Excuses .. we are too small; our market isn't big enough; we can't compete against the labour costs in Asia. Well, we used to have protections for that. Gov't has that ability. People do want to do business here.
I'm actually working on a prototype, although small in size. I could produce 500 for the price of one Crapache. Military in Australia is run by the US. They are closing down Australian owned manufacturers.
Not even smart enough to fly existing helicopters (this is not the first fleet failure) so not that confident in actually building them from scratch!
The issue I have is that these Taipans as well as the Tigers are in use by other armed forces without issues. New Zealand uses Taipans. Why are they so problematic here or did we just not procure enough parts or is Australia just a harsh and awful environment for aircraft built in less dusty and extreme environments? We had maintenance issues with Black Hawks when first relocated to hot and humid and dusty Townsville. Maybe relocate them to Brisbane. Keep your good stuff behind front lines not in the tropics.
What a lot of BS. You cant tell me you vant sell the operating A/C
This was always a bad purchase and having served in the Army for 30 plus years an in an out helicopters , this helicopter ( Taipan) was always a bad investment. It was originally designed as a civilian aircraft and trying militarise this platform was like turning a cat into dog.
The real reason was this was a pork barrel decision made by Kevin Rudd when he was PM for his electorate.
Soldiers were injured and lost lives in this platform and people should be concerned when government makes these decisions,because equipment is replacement is possible not Defence personnel lives.
Try again it John Howard that ordered the taipan helicopters.
Wrong, the MRH was a military helicopter from the outset. The problem is the operator and the blackhawk Mafia that discredited the MRH to justify replacement. The Kiwis are successfully operating their MRHs. MRH, Seapsrite, Tiger have all been mismanaged as platforms by the ADF.
The platform wasn't the issue in any accident. Lack of maintenance and Top Owl were
Yeah righto. Soldiers were injured and lost lives in blackhawk too.
@@kingdizzle8925 was that due to the aircraft design and capabilities, or maintenance or aircrew error?
How do we have so much money for bombs but just a couple large weapons purchases could solve homelessness for generations?
because we need a country before we can cure homelessness
@ pretty sure a few missiles won’t matter when a lot of people couldn’t care less about the country because the government seemingly doesn’t care
throwing money at the homelessness problem isn't going to solve it
@ you know what people who are homeless don’t have? …. Homes :)
@@TheOne23_ and just giving them a free place to live will not solve all their problems. they require rehabilitation so they can stand of their own two feet and be productive members of society.
more medals than the proper fighting men
More taxpayer wasted money!!! I'm sick of living and paying these clowns wages
IT LIKE ANY GEAR IN AUS IT JUST RUN IN TO THE GROUND BACK IN AOTEAROA 5 OUT OF 10 PEOPLES ARE BUSH MECHANICS.
what the fk are you on about?
Who else likes their tax buried in the ground 🙋🏼♂️
I wonder who’s pockets were lined in the process of all this
Blame the liberals as they were the ones who bought a lemon.