Want more microneedling info? See our latest free articles: Microneedling the scalp: does it cause scarring? perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-the-scalp-does-it-cause-scarring/ Do I need to bleed during a microneedling session? perfecthairhealth.com/do-i-need-to-bleed-when-microneedling-for-results/ Is shedding from microneedling a good or bad sign? perfecthairhealth.com/i-am-shedding-after-microneedling-why/ Can microneedling cause an infection? perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-infection/ If I stop microneedling, will I maintain my hair gains? perfecthairhealth.com/what-happens-if-i-stop-microneedling/ How do I reduce the pain from microneedling? perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-for-hair-loss/ Microneedling vs. PRP: which is better? perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-vs-prp-which-is-better/
you should look more into the work on sublingual and oral minoxidil, although the studies on sublingual aren't that extensive. It's crazy how much of the population are unresponsive to topical minoxidil.
Although the studies you are talking about, says that 1 or 1.5 mm length does not work, instead 0.5 - 0.8 is better, but on the other hand multiple personalized experiments on internet shows that 1 and 1.5 mm works better. And, the numbers of such individuals on Internet are overwhelming. No one even talks about 0.5, 0.6 mm. This is confusing of course. But, when you say that 1.5 showed no positive result at all, it becomes a sus and the credibility of such experiments gets a big question mark. You can say, I'm biased towards bigger length but how can I not be. These TH-camrs are showing their full journeys from the start. The online posters (individuals) who have no gain or loss from this matter are doing the same. I know you are already aware about such huge imbalance in this matter. I just don't know why it didn't confuse you.
@@rohondas2179 From memory the video didn't say it doesn't work but that there is a possibility that at such depths you might actually harm the part of the hair you don't want to. The studies say that 0.5-0.8 is best which translates to 1-1.2 for rolling (or something like that) which is not the same as with derma-pens. The types of anecdotal evidence that you talk of is going to be biased with a self selected sample type of person. Ie. people willing to go deeper are probably more desperate for results and therefore more likely to be consistent with treatment. You'd be surprised how many treatments fail due to the failure of the participant simply failing to keep up with the actual treatment. And with all these anecdotal treatments, what sort of controls were in place to isolate the effects of derma needling from other things that might also be having an affect on regrowth, like Minoxidil? Why would you trust anecdotal evidence over actual methodical studies? He previously said at least twice before that bigger studies need to be done with a more consistent approach as their meta study revealed that it was difficult to draw many conclusions from all the various studies that had already been done as a result. And that's the main problem with anecdotal evidence but x10: everyone does their own thing and you have no way to know what types of controls are in place or how closely they followed any specific regime. In the end if you don't want to believe the study then don't believe it and use the deeper depth. You don't need anyone's permission to do your own thing. But you can't blame him for not quoting anecdotal evidence as evidence.
I'm glad to hear this. I've been microneedling at 1.5mm depth and it's honestly just so uncomfortable. Being able to reduce the depth to a more comfortable level AND get potentially better results is just a win-win.
C est parfaitement bien avec la traduction en français, intéressant aussi vos commentaires cela aide à comprendre pour pouvoir l essayer plus en confiance
Hmmm, I always felt (based on the pain felt and how red the area become) different part of the scalp required different lengths. Front part and crown upto 0.5 to 0.7mm. Side and back of the head upto 1.2 to 1.5mm, nape of the neck 1.5 to 1.8mm. I consider redness as the right depth indicator as thats whats making the flood flow to fix the damage. Maybe it will differ from person to person on how thick the skin is at each part of the head, the settings i mentioned was for my shaved head.
You're right! Skin thickness changes across scalp regions, and across ages & severity levels of androgenic alopecia. This makes it incredibly hard to discern the exact depth of hair follicle stem cells everywhere, and for every single individual. I think 0.5-0.8mm is a great approximation of the "best" current needling depths, but it may not apply to everyone.
@@PerfectHairHealthHey Rob!! You're changing lives man! Thanks from India Please give your insights on topical dutasteride in a video like you did for topical finesteride I'm starting topical dutasteride but confused about the dosage
Thank you for putting these datas and information together for all of us. You are the shining light for all balding people. Hair loss was never my concern until recently, but here I am... Hit us with some good news my man.
@@PerfectHairHealth Why is a FIXED needle depth of 0.75mm recommended for the derma stamps, as opposed to a range of depths like the derma roller and pen?
Hi... I have been micro needling (0.5mm) for about a year in every Thursday in the apex of fronto temporal triangle. I have seen improvement though it's not much. But baby hair can be seen and further recession has stopped (i think). I don't use minoxidil cuz i just only want to stop the recession. The targeted area isn't shiny as it used to be before dermarolling. Baby hair are more visible when the scalp is wet. I have taken some pictures in June and September 2023 and comparing with pictures I can definitely say I have seen improvement. P.s. I am also taking multivitamins and sorry for any grammar mistakes, English isn't my first language.
Hi bro do you see baby hair to fall out more as my condition is also getting good as my thick hairs are not falling now that much, around 15 to 20 daily but I am seeing baby hairs falling out so much
@@zenithsharma7460 yes...baby hairs fall off but they grow again. They don't get thick. My main concern is to prevent further recession and to increase collagen production. You should not worry about baby hairs. Just make sure you are getting enough protein and vitamins...
@@PerfectHairHealth thank you!🙏🏼 Very much appreciated! I own the largest evidence based fitness channel in my country, and I always enjoy watching more evidence based videos, and you have an amazing quality! I'll continue recommend people in my country to watch your videos!👌🏼
@@PerfectHairHealthHey Rob, will you upload a video on using FDA drugs and massaging/micro needling and everything that doesn't require expensive procedures like PRP?
Hey Rob!! You're changing lives man! Thanks from India Please give your insights on topical dutasteride in a video like you did for topical finesteride I'm starting topical dutasteride but confused about the dosage
Oh dang! Ive been using a Dr. Pen at 1.75-2.00mm and stamping at 2.5mm, and it was so painful I had to take a break from doing it weekly. With this new information I will get back into a routine! Thank you for the information!
@@futurebreedmachine9302 yeah, I have to try and measure the depth of the needle stabes. I will say using it at 0.8mm is a breeze and barely even hurts compared to 1.75mm
@@mrgekko6386 Very painful but I did have hair growth. I couldn't continue it though because of the pain. I am now using 0.8mm once a week and its a walk in the park compared to what I was doing.
A great rule of thumb is the perfect length should cause redness but no bleeding. Everyone has slightly different scalp thickness. For me 0.7mm has produced amazing results. Also split test everything. Do 1/2 of your scalp at 0.5mm and the other half at 0.7mm (or whatever lengths you want to test) for a while and you will have a scientific case study of which works better for you.
Been only using 1.5mm but no medicine or topical products. Twice a week. Light bleeding. After 8 months I can honestly say that there’s a slight improvement. Is it perfect? No. Is it better? Yes.
ive been going with single needle manually, to 1.0 roller, so far the single needle has given me moderate improvement, but its a very laborious process, thats why i decided to go with with the roller, i got a 0.5, a 1.0, and a 1.5, Im kinda scared of the 1.5, so i decided to use the 1.0 roller because honestly i dont feel like the 0.5 is doing anything.
@@saitamaizgod2983 there's new hairs, very few and tiny, but for 3 weeks of doing it, definitely an improvement, im also losing less hair, im taking general vitamins (the ones that have all the important ones including vitamin E) and doing some cardio each week, i apply the roller 2 times a week, just enough so my skin starts to look red, i also massage my whole scalp and my temples the back of the head too as ive found that hair loss mostly has to do with stress, tension of the skin and bad circulation, the vitamins help the body in the repair process stimulated from the micro needles. the 1.0 definitely is doing something compared to 0.5, as i was doing the same with the 0.5, im not touching the 1.5 though, going too deep could do the opposite efect.
I used a roller for 6 months.. It didn't do anything. Switched to dr. Pen. 5 months now. It definately fuzzed up my vellus hairs. No cosmetic growth here, but i value the results . Also.. i would start at 1mm depth at the back and drop 0.25 increments as i go forward. Hairline gets 0.25mm. Otherwise i swear im hitting bone.. the pain is unbearable.
I have used both 0.5mm & 1 mm. I Noticed that with 0.5mm I’ve seen better improvement in my hair growth and I used to think why. Thankgod now there’s a study that proves that. Will start using it again. Thanks for the video👍
I watched a video a while ago and (can't remember the channel) and the guy got great results from doing 0.5mm (derma roller, but he was stamping it) daily. I also shortened my needle length to 0.5mm and decided to do it more often (a couple times per week). I suspect also the extra blood flow caused by microneedling more often could be beneficial.
The caveat is as you go deeper you need more healing time... I have not read the study but by the way you communicate they applied all groups with the same frequency. This is the weak point, more recovery time with the deeper wounds may have better results than the shorter wound group over time. I use different lengths and the frequency depends on my (subjective) healing time, this is the best way to be sure of benefits in my opinion
Thank you very much for the informative video! Would greatly appreciate a video demonstrating how to use an automated pen on the scalp and all the nuances that may come with that.
Since i practice breathing technique and practice calmness,my scalp dermatitis,itchy and hair loss reduce,and my hair texture improve, it’s weird but i’m gonna keep experimenting with it.
I'm doing what Mr.English recommends with needle length, .05 mm, I'm doing this twice a week & I'm alternating using 5% minoxidil & castor oil. I just started, I'll report back in 5- 6 weeks with results, good or bad! The reason I'm using castor oil is I'm getting unbelievable results using it on my face for smoother skin & wrinkles! I'm 63
I take finasteride and minoxidil. I micro needle a couple times a month. I had about 25% of my hair left on the top of my head and my crown was completely bald. Now after a year of treatment my top is at 70% and my crown on the back of the head is at 25%
In his video of his scientific review about hair growth studies (from 2 years ago), he said that 7 to 14 days between sessions seems optimal, but there's not a lot of studies about this.
Awesome man thank you SO much... I really struggled getting past the 1mm thinking every time I should try to pull through the pain! Your video is a relief !!!
Excellent video, I just try my very first needling last week with 1mm stamp, I pressed too hard with good amount of blood, lucky to watch this video so soon
Men bygun sotib oldim 1'5 mm soch uchun, Chisnok zaytun yogi va piyozdan dori tayyorladim, Bir yil sinab kormoqchiman, rezultat bolishga inshallax ishonaman, Hammaga salom uzbekistondan
i used 1mm derma roller and it worked for me using it for almost a year now replacing it every 3 months. i can see blood on the roller but not on my head , only redness on the skin. frequency once a week is good enough.
Glad to have a Dermatologist like you who is Semi active on YT as well :7 also my hair has almost completely stopped falling out after 20+ days .thanks Rob ❤ Just a note of appreciation
I like to view myself as a non black pilled reliant naturalist meaning I mostly rely on the massages (twice a day) and natural hair oils to stabilize my hair miniaturization (I have nothing against Kevin man) I do not use a Derma Rollers but I heard 1.5mm was the most effective range
Thanks for such an informative video. I would appreciate information on where I can purchase the micro-needling pen that has the right penetration size. Could you advise me, please. Thanks
The question then arises: If regrowth is decreasing with needle length, without a no-treatment group how do we know that this monotherapy does not actually inhibit regrowth, and that all groups in the study did not perform worse than if they had not been treated at all?
Such a good point about the limitations of the study. I also wish they had done one with 0.25mm to see if the benefits taper off or if THAT is optimal.
True but this supports prior science of .5 mm. I would like to see the .25 study as well. A ton of hair loss studies have been done and the placebos are not like that of this .5 mm group (or 1.5 mm for that matter).
@@mortius9319- hello do you use pen or roller? Which brand found best? And day use pen or roller not using minoxidil but use minoxidil on all ohter days? Thanks on update.
Microneedle is long term safe? I ve watched a doctor reporting monthly cases of patients having scars and then leading to less hair in that region Obvious microneedling is not recommended for scaring or inflamation alopetia. But any side effect for androgenic alopetia, regarding appearance of some scars, which may be irrreversible?
Did my research and have found 1mm is the best for skin and scalp. I oil my scalp every morning with rosemary, argan or Jajoba oils. I microneedle once a week. I also eat two pasture raised free range eggs every day. I also eat grass fed beef. My hair is growing faster, thicker, and stronger.
@karinodendaal5277 Yes, you are absolutely right. I was also searching for a good microneedling tutorial. The way he explained this is beautiful but not more than your appearance in your profile picture😍
Can you please talk about microneedling fibrosis ? I’m doing prp and mesotherapy and the nurse said it was a thing, an also just watched the hair cafe guy video about your video and he also mentioned it. Thanks nice video !
8:19 "14 men and 31 women": Why the predominance of women among this study cohort, considering that androgenic alopecia affects men much more commonly? Although the study seems very well documented, 14 men is quite a small sample... 😐 Especially with randomly dividing them into three groups - that's 4-5 men per group in the best case.
Hey Rob! Just binge watched some of your videos just to get a better understanding of hair growth treatment; really great stuff and keep doing what you're doing! I have been applying 5% topical minoxidil for just over 4 months already (still not seeing results but experiencing the shedding). I was originally using the foam solution, but I felt that I wasn't properly targeting the scalp so I have just switched to the liquid version and I feel that it's actually hitting the scalp and not just the follicles. I also use a rubber scalp massager to help distribute the minoxidil. I wanted to look more into microneeding and while I am interested in trying it, I am curious though about a specific factor for which I think hasn't really been covered in your videos. I live in the Philippines which has a hot climate, and I'm also someone who easily sweats. It's great to know that the 0.6-0.8mm needle length looks to be a good start for people trying out microneedling for the first time but I am curious as to what sweat does these micro-punctures, how it will affect hair growth in general, and possible causes for infection if possible. Would love to know your thoughts because this is actually the limiting factor for me for trying microneedling (aside from the pain of course but as they say beauty is pain). Hope to hear from you soon!
Same bro. Do you think the light pressure on a 1.5mm would theoretically yield the same results as a 0.5mm? As long as you achieve a certain "redness" per session? Not necessarily pinpoint bleeding. @PerfectHairHealth
According to Rob’s previous video on micro needling, yes. Minoxidil alone is similar to micro needling alone. The two add up to produce twice the results.
Hi. Very interesting and well researched information for hair loss. For each session how long is needed for micro needling, and how often is a session needed. Is the whole hair scalp possible in one session or like your excellent massage videos one session at a time?. Thanks
Great video, but do you have a remedy for topically minoxidil and microneedling causing seborrheic dermatitis conditions worse? I have tried various antibacterial shampoos, scalp peelings, but due to all that flakes cannot continue my journey with minoxidil and needling.
A quick perplexity search of "does alcohol based topicals make seborrheic dermatitis worse?" shows that the alcohol content of your daily or twice daily topical minoxidil is probably making your dermatitis worse. I'd swap to oral/sublingual minoxidil anyway (it's just better) but especially if you have dermatitis.
@@dannii_L How would oral minoxidil achieve the same effect of locally blocking the DHT from docking to the scalp? I don't see how this is remotely the same...
I am confused. The 2021 paper on depth highlighted in the middle of the video compares patients using minoxidil, indicating the depth benefits the drug’s effects. To suggest less than 1 mm based on that paper should assume the person is taking topical minoxidil.
I've been using a pen at around .5 to .6 depth, there's never bleeding on its own once finished, only redness, but if i apply pressure or squeeze around the wounds it will produce the pinpoint droplets. Should i assume this is where i want to be?
Hi - please can reply which brand pen using? Did ever try a brand roller? Pen indicating much more controlled. With pen you are using how many times over small area - as example for 1” x 1” area - how many very approximate push downs with the pen? Thank you for any update.
As someone who does face microneedling consistently I can attest that for pens you need to select the proper amount of pins in the cartridge, 36 needles will not go as deep as the 12 needles.
I still have a good amount of hair, infact I get comments like your lucky since you don’t have hair loss etc. I use a pen and once used head with more than 12 needles and it pulled allot of hairs out. I only use 12 needles since this traumatic experience 😂😂😂 So it might also depend on you’re status and thickness of the hair.¿
@@mehditalibhello - which brand pen are you using? And do use minoxidil - if so not on day use the pen? Just use minoxidil on all other days at twice per bottle recommendation? Thank you for any update?
Haven’t seen it. I don’t really find his coverage of videos/people very honest. He has a habit of exaggerating the things people say to make it easier for him to criticize or demonize them, and/or ignite outrage. FWIW, there’s nothing really in this video to “debunk”. It’s just our coverage of a new study on microneedling, and the comparison of its findings to previous microneedling studies we covered in our 2021 literature review.
@@PerfectHairHealth I think it’s worth a watch! Essentially, what he says is this: Without a placebo control group, you can’t actually prove that shorter needle depths promote more hair growth, but rather, they do less damage. He also points out that no microneedling studies have ever had a placebo control group. He also makes the case that microneedling can only cause damage, and even fibrosis.
Thanks. If those are the criticisms, it proves what I was saying earlier. In this video, in our previous microneedling video, and in our literature review about microneedling, we’ve repeatedly commented about how microneedling studies haven’t utilized untreated groups, which makes it difficult to ascertain its true effects as a monotherapy. I’m guessing Haircafe forgot to mention this, and then tried to make it look like a novel insight he had that we somehow overlooked (we hadn’t). As we’ve mentioned before, the evidence on microneedling as a monotherapy is mixed, though it trends positive at the needle lengths we describe in this video. There are placebo-controlled studies on PRP demonstrating hair parameter improvements, and comparative studies between PRP and microneedling monotherapy showing noninferiority between both interventions. We’ve never claimed microneedling is a substitute for better-studied treatments like finasteride, and we hold microneedling to the same level of scientific scrutiny that we do all potential interventions. Regarding microneedling and fibrosis, this wasn’t the subject of our video. We’ve reviewed the evidence on this here. perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-the-scalp-does-it-cause-scarring/
Maybe I still have more hair than most people who do microneedling against hair loss. I also had a hair transplant 3 years ago that went pretty well. But even though my hair is pretty thin, when I use a .5 millimeter microneedling, the needles don't even reach my scalp in most areas. The layer of hair is simply too thick. And again, my hair is thin. Maybe like the bottom right picture at 09:05 of the video. I also have a derma pen, and yes, if I carefully comb my hair out of the way for each spot, I'm able to use a .5 mm head, but that's far too tedious. So I'm definitely going with longer lengths. The last one I've been using was a 2.5mm(!) dermaroller for the scalp. I'm not pushing in the whole length of the needles, obviously. My microneedle sessions never cause bleeding. After this video and those studies, I'll be more careful to not use too much pressure, but .5 mm is far too impractical for me.
Great video, and quite lovely that we don't need to torture ourselves with more than 1 mm needles. Would love to know if the same recommendation applies for overall facial skin rejuvenation.
I have read studies on that and what i remember you need pin point bleeding and the thickness i different on different areas on the face so you may need different lengths on the face, look at Pubmed får the studies.
interesting video/information. have assumed a deeper depth, more like tattoo depth, 1-1.25. have always used a 1.25 needle with a pen being cognizant of actual penetration depth over needle size. certain areas were extremely sensitive that now are not, crown mainly, and have seen significant hair recovery (while including other therapy modalities as well). taken an almost 3 month planned break and when starting back will try lowering the needle depth. question: like the video you did showing the older guy who fell in the fire place and burned his scalp and regrew his juvenile hairline, has there been experimental therapies for (deep?) chemical peels of the scalp to generate hair regrowth? did see NIH article about use in AA (Alopecia Areata) with success. thanks for sharing!
@@Asiansxsymbol depends on what tattoo artist you ask and literature you read and going that deep causes a lot more blowouts and i said "more like". dumbass-pay attention instead of just openly showing your illiteracy and lack of comprehension skills.
To my knowledge, I haven't seen any clinical studies assessing scalp peels and hair regrowth. However, there's a procedure called autologous split-grafting, where the first few layers of skin are peeled off and transplanted to burned skin on the same person. One of the preferred locations on children is (literally) the entire scalp, mainly due to its dense concentration of stem cells. The long-term studies show (for almost everyone) no visible scarring, and no hair loss. I've personally wondered what would happen if the same procedure were performed in conjunction with medical therapy (dutasteride, minoxidil, immunosuppressants) on a completely bald scalp. Would the hairs regrow with a larger (and deeper) wounding surface area? Obviously, zero people would ever sign up for such a study, and short of burn victims actively opting into such an experiment immediately following a burn, I doubt it'll ever be conducted. But I do feel like wound-healing pathways, in the future, will unlock new levels of hair regrowth. We're in the early days of experiments for these mechanisms!
@@PerfectHairHealth great answer and thank you for taking the time! agree, it makes sense that wound-healing pathways (especially the (currently) extreme?) will create some dramatic effects in the future. seen some crazy face skin peels (only in videos) that were "wow". also, looked up some images for autologous split-grafting to be sure i was understanding the reference-and yeah can see why that study would be difficult to manifest… maybe a study of one square inch? hahaha
How often are we supposed to micro needle? The video mentioned a study that did “6 sessions (over 3 months)”. The wording is a little confusing. Does that mean 6 sessions each month? Or, only twice a month, within those 3 months?
Hey Rob, I really appreciate how passionate you are in your research. Do you have any provisional recommendations or suggestions for microneedling the face to help fix a patchy beard? Ive got a few weak spots on each side that drive me nuts. I've been derma stamping (0.5 mm) my beard region once every 5 days, with a thin layer of castor/peppermint oil daily. I cannot use monoxidil due to strong sensitivity reasons. It's only been a month so far so not much to report. Thank you and have a great day.
There are still some unanswered questions for me: 1. Should you apply treatment like Minoxidil on the day of Microneedling? 2. How often should you microneedle?
Also yes use Minoxidil and also keep your hair short to not lose motivation to use Minoxidil because the longer the hair gets the more you wash your hair with Minoxidil instead of actually going into the scalp
I have a real problem I was using derma stamping and minoxidil for 1 month but I was derma stamping frequently I don’t know the rules,and every 3 or 4 days I was derma stamping 1.5mm. After a month I have massive side effects chest pain breathing problems headaches, walking problems. I thought it was minoxidil and I was increasing shedding, I discontinued using minoxidil but I continue derma stamping for almost 2 weeks again but yet still my hairline was increasing in shedding and my scalp was healing. Then I suspect the derma stamp. I then go and researched the rules of derma stamp. Thats the time I know I was damaging my scalp I have infection due to derma stamp. So my question is can I recover from this infection to regrow my hairline back because it’s too worse than before. Or when there is any natural treatment to recover. Pls I need opinion 🙏
Hey Rob!! You're changing lives man! Thanks from India Please give your insights on topical dutasteride in a video like you did for topical finesteride I'm starting topical dutasteride but confused about the dosage
Quite possible that anything above 0.8mm is not seen as effective because many participants in the study won’t commit to it if they feel too much pain. Everything above 1mm will start to get uncomfortable so they might have just not used it as they should. Regardless good to see that low depth is also useful.
Hey this is nice information to me who just start microneedling. I havr question for you. How long should we wait after microneedling to apply minoxidil ???
Just keep in mind that it won't be the same depth of penetration if microneedling is performed over the skin with existing hair or if it is performed on skin with no or very thin hair.
Thank you so much for all this amazing info. How often were they microneedling and for how long? I also wonder on the device which speed setting they'd choose.
I read that microneedling will cause scar tissue overtime, making future hair transplant procedures less effective. Can you do a video on this subject?
People microneedle their faces regularly for long periods of time and don't seem to have scarring. You could for example go and look at Claudia Glows, she's been doing it for years. 🙂 But yes a video on the subject would be good. 😊
The derma rollers with actual needles which have 192 needles provide a lower risk of scarring the higher count rollers with 500 plus needles. Which actually aren't needles are all but sharpened disks. More painful as well.
I don't understand why you recommend 1mm-1.25mm for Dermarollers. Even if we don't get the full depth with those devices, it's hard to imagine the "depth loss" is more than 30%. I started micro needling just last week and went for a 0.75mm roller. It seems to me like I picked a good length.
He is referring to a study which concluded that only about 50-70 % of the derma roller needle length reaches into your scalp. You can see it in his old Microneedling Video from 2021.
@@Θεόφιλος_0 I don't know about the specific study, but I think we should differentiate between someone who just randomly buys a device on Amazon without looking into the topic deeply and someone who is actually informed and watches videos like this. With casual application I can see why it would only give you 50% depth, but once someone knows that it's important to press down while using the device, I don't see why we can't assume 70-95% penetration depth. This is especially true for the shorter length rollers where pain won't be too much of a hindrance.
I have done it at 1.5 mm for years. And I bet many with me have done it because that used to be a common recommendation. Do any have any insight if we are just damaged beyond repair now? I will obviously drop down to the "correct" length. I am already at 1mm. But I used to do it 1.5mm for several years before that. I really wonder how much damage i did.
Hey man! Several months ago, I consulted with HairDAO to identify regulatory pathways for testing an experimental intervention. As a result, I’ve met both Andrews (the founders) over video calls. As far as I can tell, they’ve got a few really interesting projects in their pipeline, and I hope the one I got to see moves to a clinical trial.
@@PerfectHairHealth Oh cool, were you the one who worked with Jumpman ? He's part of their core team (working group). He created the "Jumpman Cure Protocol" and several people have started it. I just came from their Twitter and you were mentioned alongside him so I was curious if you worked with him as well. I'm assuming you've seen their discord?
Oh interesting! I haven’t worked with Jumpman, but it’s possible we worked on the same project and I didn’t know it (my scope was really narrow). I’m not involved with the Jumpman Cure Protocol. I do know about their discord, but since I’m not a member, I am out of the loop with the discussions. I will check this out, thanks a ton for telling me about it.
Awesome. I've been stamping with 0.5mm needle length for some time now and have seen minor improvement. I have relatively thick scalp so I was wondering if I should go deeper since I very rarely notice any redness or bleeding. I'll give 0.75mm a try. Thanks
Thank you for your amazing work, I watched your tutorial on making Topical finasteride And I wonder can i dissolve finasteride pill into Rosemary mint oil ?
Very interesting. Thank you. 😊 My guess would have been a much longer length. Good to know that short is better since that is less uncomfortable and bleeds less. I would imagine that the perfect length would be different depending on the person's individual skin thickness.
Want more microneedling info? See our latest free articles:
Microneedling the scalp: does it cause scarring?
perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-the-scalp-does-it-cause-scarring/
Do I need to bleed during a microneedling session?
perfecthairhealth.com/do-i-need-to-bleed-when-microneedling-for-results/
Is shedding from microneedling a good or bad sign?
perfecthairhealth.com/i-am-shedding-after-microneedling-why/
Can microneedling cause an infection?
perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-infection/
If I stop microneedling, will I maintain my hair gains?
perfecthairhealth.com/what-happens-if-i-stop-microneedling/
How do I reduce the pain from microneedling?
perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-for-hair-loss/
Microneedling vs. PRP: which is better?
perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-vs-prp-which-is-better/
Is pen better than rolling?
you should look more into the work on sublingual and oral minoxidil, although the studies on sublingual aren't that extensive. It's crazy how much of the population are unresponsive to topical minoxidil.
@@keylanoslokj1806 I wanted to know that as well and thought he was going to answer that but don't think he did, unless I missed it.
Although the studies you are talking about, says that 1 or 1.5 mm length does not work, instead 0.5 - 0.8 is better, but on the other hand multiple personalized experiments on internet shows that 1 and 1.5 mm works better. And, the numbers of such individuals on Internet are overwhelming. No one even talks about 0.5, 0.6 mm. This is confusing of course. But, when you say that 1.5 showed no positive result at all, it becomes a sus and the credibility of such experiments gets a big question mark. You can say, I'm biased towards bigger length but how can I not be. These TH-camrs are showing their full journeys from the start. The online posters (individuals) who have no gain or loss from this matter are doing the same. I know you are already aware about such huge imbalance in this matter. I just don't know why it didn't confuse you.
@@rohondas2179 From memory the video didn't say it doesn't work but that there is a possibility that at such depths you might actually harm the part of the hair you don't want to. The studies say that 0.5-0.8 is best which translates to 1-1.2 for rolling (or something like that) which is not the same as with derma-pens.
The types of anecdotal evidence that you talk of is going to be biased with a self selected sample type of person. Ie. people willing to go deeper are probably more desperate for results and therefore more likely to be consistent with treatment. You'd be surprised how many treatments fail due to the failure of the participant simply failing to keep up with the actual treatment. And with all these anecdotal treatments, what sort of controls were in place to isolate the effects of derma needling from other things that might also be having an affect on regrowth, like Minoxidil?
Why would you trust anecdotal evidence over actual methodical studies? He previously said at least twice before that bigger studies need to be done with a more consistent approach as their meta study revealed that it was difficult to draw many conclusions from all the various studies that had already been done as a result. And that's the main problem with anecdotal evidence but x10: everyone does their own thing and you have no way to know what types of controls are in place or how closely they followed any specific regime.
In the end if you don't want to believe the study then don't believe it and use the deeper depth. You don't need anyone's permission to do your own thing. But you can't blame him for not quoting anecdotal evidence as evidence.
10:00 why we are all here.
Also he says the .5 millimeter is the best. You're welcome
Thanks Bro
Thx bruv
#Hero
11:42 dermaroller 1.00 ~ 1.25
Why is 0.75 recommended for derma stamp then?
I'm glad to hear this. I've been microneedling at 1.5mm depth and it's honestly just so uncomfortable. Being able to reduce the depth to a more comfortable level AND get potentially better results is just a win-win.
This is why I stay subscribed! You have the best content on the Internet. Thank you so much for what you do 💚
C est parfaitement bien avec la traduction en français, intéressant aussi vos commentaires cela aide à comprendre pour pouvoir l essayer plus en confiance
It's always like attending a class when we just want to listen to a video to kill time lol..I hope he can switch to the skin research too..
Hmmm, I always felt (based on the pain felt and how red the area become) different part of the scalp required different lengths. Front part and crown upto 0.5 to 0.7mm. Side and back of the head upto 1.2 to 1.5mm, nape of the neck 1.5 to 1.8mm. I consider redness as the right depth indicator as thats whats making the flood flow to fix the damage. Maybe it will differ from person to person on how thick the skin is at each part of the head, the settings i mentioned was for my shaved head.
You're right! Skin thickness changes across scalp regions, and across ages & severity levels of androgenic alopecia. This makes it incredibly hard to discern the exact depth of hair follicle stem cells everywhere, and for every single individual. I think 0.5-0.8mm is a great approximation of the "best" current needling depths, but it may not apply to everyone.
Same. I have to use 0.25 at the former hairline. Otherwise the pain is unbearable.
@@PerfectHairHealthHey Rob!! You're changing lives man!
Thanks from India
Please give your insights on topical dutasteride in a video like you did for topical finesteride
I'm starting topical dutasteride but confused about the dosage
@@PerfectHairHealth maybe in the future someone will design a non invasive scanner to quantify an individuals thickness at all the different regions!
Wonderful information thank you! What about frequency though?
Thank you for putting these datas and information together for all of us. You are the shining light for all balding people. Hair loss was never my concern until recently, but here I am... Hit us with some good news my man.
You got it! Watch this video: Men: How To Fix Hair Loss At Home (Full Guide)
th-cam.com/video/8MHUO5nxvwI/w-d-xo.html
@@PerfectHairHealth Why is a FIXED needle depth of 0.75mm recommended for the derma stamps, as opposed to a range of depths like the derma roller and pen?
Hi... I have been micro needling (0.5mm) for about a year in every Thursday in the apex of fronto temporal triangle. I have seen improvement though it's not much. But baby hair can be seen and further recession has stopped (i think). I don't use minoxidil cuz i just only want to stop the recession. The targeted area isn't shiny as it used to be before dermarolling. Baby hair are more visible when the scalp is wet. I have taken some pictures in June and September 2023 and comparing with pictures I can definitely say I have seen improvement.
P.s. I am also taking multivitamins and sorry for any grammar mistakes, English isn't my first language.
your hairline looks pretty good bro
@@zaki_1337lol
Y are good.my too.y are better then me
Hi bro do you see baby hair to fall out more as my condition is also getting good as my thick hairs are not falling now that much, around 15 to 20 daily but I am seeing baby hairs falling out so much
@@zenithsharma7460 yes...baby hairs fall off but they grow again. They don't get thick. My main concern is to prevent further recession and to increase collagen production. You should not worry about baby hairs. Just make sure you are getting enough protein and vitamins...
Amazing to see a new video!!
Upload more man!
Your last recommended video about treatment-induced hair shedding is coming! Just finished the edit.
@@PerfectHairHealth thank you!🙏🏼 Very much appreciated!
I own the largest evidence based fitness channel in my country, and I always enjoy watching more evidence based videos, and you have an amazing quality!
I'll continue recommend people in my country to watch your videos!👌🏼
@@PerfectHairHealthHey Rob, will you upload a video on using FDA drugs and massaging/micro needling and everything that doesn't require expensive procedures like PRP?
This video might help: th-cam.com/video/8MHUO5nxvwI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=4jiTy2_OK18jb-j8
Hey Rob!! You're changing lives man!
Thanks from India
Please give your insights on topical dutasteride in a video like you did for topical finesteride
I'm starting topical dutasteride but confused about the dosage
Best video on the topic so far!
Oh dang! Ive been using a Dr. Pen at 1.75-2.00mm and stamping at 2.5mm, and it was so painful I had to take a break from doing it weekly. With this new information I will get back into a routine! Thank you for the information!
1.75 is too much indeed. But depth of a derma pen isn’t the same as that of a dermaroll
@@futurebreedmachine9302 yeah, I have to try and measure the depth of the needle stabes. I will say using it at 0.8mm is a breeze and barely even hurts compared to 1.75mm
That sounds painful but did you get any results, more hair?
@@mrgekko6386 Very painful but I did have hair growth. I couldn't continue it though because of the pain. I am now using 0.8mm once a week and its a walk in the park compared to what I was doing.
A great rule of thumb is the perfect length should cause redness but no bleeding.
Everyone has slightly different scalp thickness.
For me 0.7mm has produced amazing results.
Also split test everything. Do 1/2 of your scalp at 0.5mm and the other half at 0.7mm (or whatever lengths you want to test) for a while and you will have a scientific case study of which works better for you.
we bald people trust/depend on your valid research.BRAVO.
Been only using 1.5mm but no medicine or topical products. Twice a week. Light bleeding. After 8 months I can honestly say that there’s a slight improvement. Is it perfect? No. Is it better? Yes.
ive been going with single needle manually, to 1.0 roller, so far the single needle has given me moderate improvement, but its a very laborious process, thats why i decided to go with with the roller, i got a 0.5, a 1.0, and a 1.5, Im kinda scared of the 1.5, so i decided to use the 1.0 roller because honestly i dont feel like the 0.5 is doing anything.
@@Wolfrich666 are you seeing results with 1.0mm? or its same like .5
@@saitamaizgod2983 there's new hairs, very few and tiny, but for 3 weeks of doing it, definitely an improvement, im also losing less hair, im taking general vitamins (the ones that have all the important ones including vitamin E) and doing some cardio each week, i apply the roller 2 times a week, just enough so my skin starts to look red, i also massage my whole scalp and my temples the back of the head too as ive found that hair loss mostly has to do with stress, tension of the skin and bad circulation, the vitamins help the body in the repair process stimulated from the micro needles. the 1.0 definitely is doing something compared to 0.5, as i was doing the same with the 0.5, im not touching the 1.5 though, going too deep could do the opposite efect.
As you can see in the study… 1.5 will get you 0 results!!! Also once every 2 weeks, why 2 times per week? Now you know what’s wrong
I used a roller for 6 months.. It didn't do anything. Switched to dr. Pen. 5 months now. It definately fuzzed up my vellus hairs. No cosmetic growth here, but i value the results . Also.. i would start at 1mm depth at the back and drop 0.25 increments as i go forward. Hairline gets 0.25mm. Otherwise i swear im hitting bone.. the pain is unbearable.
I have used both 0.5mm & 1 mm. I Noticed that with 0.5mm I’ve seen better improvement in my hair growth and I used to think why. Thankgod now there’s a study that proves that. Will start using it again. Thanks for the video👍
Same I might switch back up to .5
Do you use a pen or a roller? The roller does not penetrate as deep according to the video so would be interesting to know 🙂
@@mrgekko6386 I’ve used a roller
@@mrgekko6386I want to know as well.
Pen or roller?
I watched a video a while ago and (can't remember the channel) and the guy got great results from doing 0.5mm (derma roller, but he was stamping it) daily. I also shortened my needle length to 0.5mm and decided to do it more often (a couple times per week). I suspect also the extra blood flow caused by microneedling more often could be beneficial.
Hows the result now
hows the result now ?
how are the results now and how many times a week do you do micro needling 0.5mm ?
The caveat is as you go deeper you need more healing time... I have not read the study but by the way you communicate they applied all groups with the same frequency. This is the weak point, more recovery time with the deeper wounds may have better results than the shorter wound group over time. I use different lengths and the frequency depends on my (subjective) healing time, this is the best way to be sure of benefits in my opinion
Thank you very much for the informative video!
Would greatly appreciate a video demonstrating how to use an automated pen on the scalp and all the nuances that may come with that.
Since i practice breathing technique and practice calmness,my scalp dermatitis,itchy and hair loss reduce,and my hair texture improve, it’s weird but i’m gonna keep experimenting with it.
I personally also have good results in this too
What's a breathing technique?
Is bro talking about mewing
@@supasfno 🤦♂️
What's the techniques bro ??
I'm doing what Mr.English recommends with needle length, .05 mm, I'm doing this twice a week & I'm alternating using 5% minoxidil & castor oil. I just started, I'll report back in 5- 6 weeks with results, good or bad! The reason I'm using castor oil is I'm getting unbelievable results using it on my face for smoother skin & wrinkles! I'm 63
so.. any update ?
Update
I take finasteride and minoxidil. I micro needle a couple times a month. I had about 25% of my hair left on the top of my head and my crown was completely bald. Now after a year of treatment my top is at 70% and my crown on the back of the head is at 25%
@@travisconover4762 Awesome stuff! Keep up the great work my friend!
How is it going so far?
It didn't say much about the optimal frequency - 6 times in 3 months?
Good question.
Yehh I'm waiting for that also lol
In his video of his scientific review about hair growth studies (from 2 years ago), he said that 7 to 14 days between sessions seems optimal, but there's not a lot of studies about this.
In that study they needled every 2 weeks
If you do it too frequently it will create scar tissue
Awesome man thank you SO much... I really struggled getting past the 1mm thinking every time I should try to pull through the pain! Your video is a relief !!!
Excellent video, I just try my very first needling last week with 1mm stamp, I pressed too hard with good amount of blood, lucky to watch this video so soon
Thank you for your clarity & professionalism. My go to source.
Men bygun sotib oldim 1'5 mm soch uchun, Chisnok zaytun yogi va piyozdan dori tayyorladim, Bir yil sinab kormoqchiman, rezultat bolishga inshallax ishonaman, Hammaga salom uzbekistondan
Can you do a video dedicated to Saw palmetto and brand recommendations? AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR CONTENT!!
What do you think about the use of topical hyaluronic acid when microneedling?
i used 1mm derma roller and it worked for me using it for almost a year now replacing it every 3 months. i can see blood on the roller but not on my head , only redness on the skin. frequency once a week is good enough.
How often should we microneedle the scalp?
I do it once a week with 2.5 and its worked ALOT
I do it once a week with 1.5 mm; doesn't seem to do anything for me.
I'll change to 0.8mm instead of 1.5
@@californiadoll6273 Do you have pics? If so drop them somewhere and share it with us.
I though he was going to answer that in the video but he didn't.
Glad to have a Dermatologist like you who is Semi active on YT as well :7 also my hair has almost completely stopped falling out after 20+ days .thanks Rob ❤
Just a note of appreciation
Did u use 0.5 mm?
I like to view myself as a non black pilled reliant naturalist meaning I mostly rely on the massages (twice a day) and natural hair oils to stabilize my hair miniaturization (I have nothing against Kevin man) I do not use a Derma Rollers but I heard 1.5mm was the most effective range
Great update, thanks! The next question I'd love an update on is the most effective frequency (currently mn once per week).
Thanks for such an informative video. I would appreciate information on where I can purchase the micro-needling pen that has the right penetration size. Could you advise me, please.
Thanks
I wonder if it’s the same for the skin on your face for collagen production like for scars and what not
The question then arises: If regrowth is decreasing with needle length, without a no-treatment group how do we know that this monotherapy does not actually inhibit regrowth, and that all groups in the study did not perform worse than if they had not been treated at all?
Such a good point about the limitations of the study. I also wish they had done one with 0.25mm to see if the benefits taper off or if THAT is optimal.
True but this supports prior science of .5 mm. I would like to see the .25 study as well. A ton of hair loss studies have been done and the placebos are not like that of this .5 mm group (or 1.5 mm for that matter).
This is why there should always be a control group :/
يا دكتور عندي سوال يصلح استخدام الديرما رولر اذا في قشره في فروه الراس واذا هيحاله وراثيه
خل تفاح يشيل القشرة بس ابحث باليوتيوب عن كيفكه تخلص من قشره عن طريق خل تفاح
Thank you very much for bringing this to our knowledge!
lets say now needle with 0,5 pen, how often can we do it ? i miss this info in the video.. 0,5 = less scalp dmg = more frequent Sessions..??
Watch the video again. Study was doing the microneedling sessions once every 2 weeks.
@@mortius9319- hello do you use pen or roller? Which brand found best? And day use pen or roller not using minoxidil but use minoxidil on all ohter days? Thanks on update.
the video is great, can you recommend a derma pen for this treatment?
Microneedle is long term safe?
I ve watched a doctor reporting monthly cases of patients having scars and then leading to less hair in that region
Obvious microneedling is not recommended for scaring or inflamation alopetia.
But any side effect for androgenic alopetia, regarding appearance of some scars, which may be irrreversible?
Did my research and have found 1mm is the best for skin and scalp.
I oil my scalp every morning with rosemary, argan or Jajoba oils. I microneedle once a week.
I also eat two pasture raised free range eggs every day. I also eat grass fed beef.
My hair is growing faster, thicker, and stronger.
@karinodendaal5277 Yes, you are absolutely right. I was also searching for a good microneedling tutorial. The way he explained this is beautiful but not more than your appearance in your profile picture😍
Really thx for the precious info! Once a week? or once every two weeks?
Can you please talk about microneedling fibrosis ? I’m doing prp and mesotherapy and the nurse said it was a thing, an also just watched the hair cafe guy video about your video and he also mentioned it. Thanks nice video !
We did a deep-dive into this here: perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-the-scalp-does-it-cause-scarring/
8:19 "14 men and 31 women": Why the predominance of women among this study cohort, considering that androgenic alopecia affects men much more commonly? Although the study seems very well documented, 14 men is quite a small sample... 😐 Especially with randomly dividing them into three groups - that's 4-5 men per group in the best case.
Group C did see thicker hair shafts which could make your hair look fuller, right?
Love your work so much. We appreciate you.
So basically if only doing a 1.5 mm lightly, it would be doing the 0.5 to 0.75 penetration
9:41 what exactly are these numbers representing in the way of hair count?
Hey Rob! Just binge watched some of your videos just to get a better understanding of hair growth treatment; really great stuff and keep doing what you're doing! I have been applying 5% topical minoxidil for just over 4 months already (still not seeing results but experiencing the shedding). I was originally using the foam solution, but I felt that I wasn't properly targeting the scalp so I have just switched to the liquid version and I feel that it's actually hitting the scalp and not just the follicles. I also use a rubber scalp massager to help distribute the minoxidil. I wanted to look more into microneeding and while I am interested in trying it, I am curious though about a specific factor for which I think hasn't really been covered in your videos. I live in the Philippines which has a hot climate, and I'm also someone who easily sweats. It's great to know that the 0.6-0.8mm needle length looks to be a good start for people trying out microneedling for the first time but I am curious as to what sweat does these micro-punctures, how it will affect hair growth in general, and possible causes for infection if possible. Would love to know your thoughts because this is actually the limiting factor for me for trying microneedling (aside from the pain of course but as they say beauty is pain). Hope to hear from you soon!
Dang ive been using 1.5mm 🫠 but i suppose if i use light pressure, i might as well be hitting that sweet spot
Same bro. Do you think the light pressure on a 1.5mm would theoretically yield the same results as a 0.5mm? As long as you achieve a certain "redness" per session? Not necessarily pinpoint bleeding. @PerfectHairHealth
best video i have seen about microneedling im using 1.5mm and i bleed as well so im goin to shift to 0.5mm now
Does extended use of microneedling make the epidermis or dermis thicker, thereby paradoxically leading to less penetration?
Pressure is important. Whether you use 0.5 or 1.5
Ne kadar bastırmak gerekir?
Do it goes the same for facial hair too?
I can't find a derma pen device above 0.25mm on Amazon. Where can I get this 0.5mm version?
do you need to apply any product before or after because any pain or to avoid infection??
Does it make sense to microneedle without using minoxidil or other remedies?
According to Rob’s previous video on micro needling, yes. Minoxidil alone is similar to micro needling alone. The two add up to produce twice the results.
@@fi4re thank you very much for the quick info.. I'll check that video out as well :)
Doesn't help much if you're already losing hair. 🤦
Hi. Very interesting and well researched information for hair loss. For each session how long is needed for micro needling, and how often is a session needed. Is the whole hair scalp possible in one session or like your excellent massage videos one session at a time?. Thanks
Great video, but do you have a remedy for topically minoxidil and microneedling causing seborrheic dermatitis conditions worse? I have tried various antibacterial shampoos, scalp peelings, but due to all that flakes cannot continue my journey with minoxidil and needling.
A quick perplexity search of "does alcohol based topicals make seborrheic dermatitis worse?" shows that the alcohol content of your daily or twice daily topical minoxidil is probably making your dermatitis worse. I'd swap to oral/sublingual minoxidil anyway (it's just better) but especially if you have dermatitis.
@@dannii_L How would oral minoxidil achieve the same effect of locally blocking the DHT from docking to the scalp? I don't see how this is remotely the same...
@@user96RR You're correct minoxidil does nothing to address DHT but the OP never mentioned anything about DHT, finasteride or dutasteride.
Thanks for the info rob, any update on use frequency?
I don't think you mentioned what the frequency recommendation is? once a week?
Solid research and summary, thanks!
I am confused. The 2021 paper on depth highlighted in the middle of the video compares patients using minoxidil, indicating the depth benefits the drug’s effects. To suggest less than 1 mm based on that paper should assume the person is taking topical minoxidil.
I've been using a pen at around .5 to .6 depth, there's never bleeding on its own once finished, only redness, but if i apply pressure or squeeze around the wounds it will produce the pinpoint droplets. Should i assume this is where i want to be?
Hi - please can reply which brand pen using? Did ever try a brand roller? Pen indicating much more controlled. With pen you are using how many times over small area - as example for 1” x 1” area - how many very approximate push downs with the pen? Thank you for any update.
As someone who does face microneedling consistently I can attest that for pens you need to select the proper amount of pins in the cartridge, 36 needles will not go as deep as the 12 needles.
I still have a good amount of hair, infact I get comments like your lucky since you don’t have hair loss etc.
I use a pen and once used head with more than 12 needles and it pulled allot of hairs out.
I only use 12 needles since this traumatic experience 😂😂😂
So it might also depend on you’re status and thickness of the hair.¿
@@mehditalibhello - which brand pen are you using? And do use minoxidil - if so not on day use the pen? Just use minoxidil on all other days at twice per bottle recommendation? Thank you for any update?
Is skin redness a good indicator of correct microneedling depth? I'm using a derma stamp at 0.75 mm, and there's no pinpoint bleeding or redness.
this is the best channel
such a well structured video.
Could you talk about kx826? And gt00029? Thank you 🎉
What do you say of the recet Haircafe video debunking this one?
Haven’t seen it. I don’t really find his coverage of videos/people very honest. He has a habit of exaggerating the things people say to make it easier for him to criticize or demonize them, and/or ignite outrage.
FWIW, there’s nothing really in this video to “debunk”. It’s just our coverage of a new study on microneedling, and the comparison of its findings to previous microneedling studies we covered in our 2021 literature review.
@@PerfectHairHealth I think it’s worth a watch! Essentially, what he says is this:
Without a placebo control group, you can’t actually prove that shorter needle depths promote more hair growth, but rather, they do less damage.
He also points out that no microneedling studies have ever had a placebo control group.
He also makes the case that microneedling can only cause damage, and even fibrosis.
Thanks. If those are the criticisms, it proves what I was saying earlier. In this video, in our previous microneedling video, and in our literature review about microneedling, we’ve repeatedly commented about how microneedling studies haven’t utilized untreated groups, which makes it difficult to ascertain its true effects as a monotherapy. I’m guessing Haircafe forgot to mention this, and then tried to make it look like a novel insight he had that we somehow overlooked (we hadn’t).
As we’ve mentioned before, the evidence on microneedling as a monotherapy is mixed, though it trends positive at the needle lengths we describe in this video. There are placebo-controlled studies on PRP demonstrating hair parameter improvements, and comparative studies between PRP and microneedling monotherapy showing noninferiority between both interventions. We’ve never claimed microneedling is a substitute for better-studied treatments like finasteride, and we hold microneedling to the same level of scientific scrutiny that we do all potential interventions.
Regarding microneedling and fibrosis, this wasn’t the subject of our video. We’ve reviewed the evidence on this here. perfecthairhealth.com/microneedling-the-scalp-does-it-cause-scarring/
great info, thanks a lot!
Maybe I still have more hair than most people who do microneedling against hair loss. I also had a hair transplant 3 years ago that went pretty well. But even though my hair is pretty thin, when I use a .5 millimeter microneedling, the needles don't even reach my scalp in most areas. The layer of hair is simply too thick. And again, my hair is thin. Maybe like the bottom right picture at 09:05 of the video. I also have a derma pen, and yes, if I carefully comb my hair out of the way for each spot, I'm able to use a .5 mm head, but that's far too tedious. So I'm definitely going with longer lengths. The last one I've been using was a 2.5mm(!) dermaroller for the scalp. I'm not pushing in the whole length of the needles, obviously. My microneedle sessions never cause bleeding. After this video and those studies, I'll be more careful to not use too much pressure, but .5 mm is far too impractical for me.
Great video, and quite lovely that we don't need to torture ourselves with more than 1 mm needles. Would love to know if the same recommendation applies for overall facial skin rejuvenation.
I have read studies on that and what i remember you need pin point bleeding and the thickness i different on different areas on the face so you may need different lengths on the face, look at Pubmed får the studies.
How often? How should one clean the needles? Any opinion on 2-deoxy-D-ribose (2dDR)?
Once a week; sanitize with alcohol.
Also what to do AFTER microneedling? Should we rinse our scalp? Put some soothing products?
@Tkimba2 just rinsing with cold water is enough.
interesting video/information. have assumed a deeper depth, more like tattoo depth, 1-1.25. have always used a 1.25 needle with a pen being cognizant of actual penetration depth over needle size. certain areas were extremely sensitive that now are not, crown mainly, and have seen significant hair recovery (while including other therapy modalities as well). taken an almost 3 month planned break and when starting back will try lowering the needle depth.
question: like the video you did showing the older guy who fell in the fire place and burned his scalp and regrew his juvenile hairline, has there been experimental therapies for (deep?) chemical peels of the scalp to generate hair regrowth? did see NIH article about use in AA (Alopecia Areata) with success. thanks for sharing!
Tattoo depth is way more than 1-1.25 mm; more like 1.5-2 mm
@@Asiansxsymbol depends on what tattoo artist you ask and literature you read and going that deep causes a lot more blowouts and i said "more like". dumbass-pay attention instead of just openly showing your illiteracy and lack of comprehension skills.
To my knowledge, I haven't seen any clinical studies assessing scalp peels and hair regrowth. However, there's a procedure called autologous split-grafting, where the first few layers of skin are peeled off and transplanted to burned skin on the same person. One of the preferred locations on children is (literally) the entire scalp, mainly due to its dense concentration of stem cells. The long-term studies show (for almost everyone) no visible scarring, and no hair loss. I've personally wondered what would happen if the same procedure were performed in conjunction with medical therapy (dutasteride, minoxidil, immunosuppressants) on a completely bald scalp. Would the hairs regrow with a larger (and deeper) wounding surface area? Obviously, zero people would ever sign up for such a study, and short of burn victims actively opting into such an experiment immediately following a burn, I doubt it'll ever be conducted. But I do feel like wound-healing pathways, in the future, will unlock new levels of hair regrowth. We're in the early days of experiments for these mechanisms!
@@PerfectHairHealth great answer and thank you for taking the time! agree, it makes sense that wound-healing pathways (especially the (currently) extreme?) will create some dramatic effects in the future. seen some crazy face skin peels (only in videos) that were "wow". also, looked up some images for autologous split-grafting to be sure i was understanding the reference-and yeah can see why that study would be difficult to manifest… maybe a study of one square inch? hahaha
How often are we supposed to micro needle? The video mentioned a study that did “6 sessions (over 3 months)”.
The wording is a little confusing.
Does that mean 6 sessions each month?
Or, only twice a month, within those 3 months?
What is the perfect needle length for depressed acne scarring and open pores?
I may have missed it, how often is it recommended we microneedle? 1/ day, week, month?
I used his paper in one of my presentations
Great video! I’m just curious if you ever had a chance to test Therabrushes and generally what is your opinion on the red light therapy?
Is there any product you recommend?
oh and how often should you use the dermaroller (1.0 to 1.25 mm)?
Awesome video, thanks for the great work!
Hey Rob, I really appreciate how passionate you are in your research. Do you have any provisional recommendations or suggestions for microneedling the face to help fix a patchy beard? Ive got a few weak spots on each side that drive me nuts.
I've been derma stamping (0.5 mm) my beard region once every 5 days, with a thin layer of castor/peppermint oil daily. I cannot use monoxidil due to strong sensitivity reasons. It's only been a month so far so not much to report. Thank you and have a great day.
Did you try minoxidil foam?
There are still some unanswered questions for me:
1. Should you apply treatment like Minoxidil on the day of Microneedling?
2. How often should you microneedle?
the research paper talks about 2 weeks
From my experience I can 100% agree to do it every two weeks
Also yes use Minoxidil and also keep your hair short to not lose motivation to use Minoxidil because the longer the hair gets the more you wash your hair with Minoxidil instead of actually going into the scalp
Yes; once a week.
i do it 3-4 times a week. I dont know why would they suggest to do it once every 2 weeks its foolish
I have a real problem I was using derma stamping and minoxidil for 1 month but I was derma stamping frequently I don’t know the rules,and every 3 or 4 days I was derma stamping 1.5mm. After a month I have massive side effects chest pain breathing problems headaches, walking problems. I thought it was minoxidil and I was increasing shedding, I discontinued using minoxidil but I continue derma stamping for almost 2 weeks again but yet still my hairline was increasing in shedding and my scalp was healing. Then I suspect the derma stamp. I then go and researched the rules of derma stamp. Thats the time I know I was damaging my scalp I have infection due to derma stamp. So my question is can I recover from this infection to regrow my hairline back because it’s too worse than before. Or when there is any natural treatment to recover. Pls I need opinion 🙏
Do more research and make a full plan, im new too
Hey Rob!! You're changing lives man!
Thanks from India
Please give your insights on topical dutasteride in a video like you did for topical finesteride
I'm starting topical dutasteride but confused about the dosage
Where do you get topical dutsateride and prescription?
@@shovon9412 Minoxidilmax
Quite possible that anything above 0.8mm is not seen as effective because many participants in the study won’t commit to it if they feel too much pain. Everything above 1mm will start to get uncomfortable so they might have just not used it as they should. Regardless good to see that low depth is also useful.
Hey this is nice information to me who just start microneedling. I havr question for you.
How long should we wait after microneedling to apply minoxidil ???
And also once we start microneedling, will we have to do it forever? What’s maintenance look like?
Just keep in mind that it won't be the same depth of penetration if microneedling is performed over the skin with existing hair or if it is performed on skin with no or very thin hair.
Thank you so much for all this amazing info. How often were they microneedling and for how long? I also wonder on the device which speed setting they'd choose.
Did I missed it. I couldn't find the recommended microneedling devices, particularly the roller ones. Thanks
11:42
I read that microneedling will cause scar tissue overtime, making future hair transplant procedures less effective. Can you do a video on this subject?
People microneedle their faces regularly for long periods of time and don't seem to have scarring. You could for example go and look at Claudia Glows, she's been doing it for years. 🙂 But yes a video on the subject would be good. 😊
The derma rollers with actual needles which have 192 needles provide a lower risk of scarring the higher count rollers with 500 plus needles. Which actually aren't needles are all but sharpened disks. More painful as well.
I don't understand why you recommend 1mm-1.25mm for Dermarollers. Even if we don't get the full depth with those devices, it's hard to imagine the "depth loss" is more than 30%.
I started micro needling just last week and went for a 0.75mm roller. It seems to me like I picked a good length.
He is referring to a study which concluded that only about 50-70 % of the derma roller needle length reaches into your scalp. You can see it in his old Microneedling Video from 2021.
@@Θεόφιλος_0 I don't know about the specific study, but I think we should differentiate between someone who just randomly buys a device on Amazon without looking into the topic deeply and someone who is actually informed and watches videos like this. With casual application I can see why it would only give you 50% depth, but once someone knows that it's important to press down while using the device, I don't see why we can't assume 70-95% penetration depth. This is especially true for the shorter length rollers where pain won't be too much of a hindrance.
Fantastic info Love ya bro
I have done it at 1.5 mm for years.
And I bet many with me have done it because that used to be a common recommendation.
Do any have any insight if we are just damaged beyond repair now?
I will obviously drop down to the "correct" length. I am already at 1mm. But I used to do it 1.5mm for several years before that.
I really wonder how much damage i did.
Whats your association with HairDAO?
Hey man! Several months ago, I consulted with HairDAO to identify regulatory pathways for testing an experimental intervention. As a result, I’ve met both Andrews (the founders) over video calls. As far as I can tell, they’ve got a few really interesting projects in their pipeline, and I hope the one I got to see moves to a clinical trial.
@@PerfectHairHealth Oh cool, were you the one who worked with Jumpman ?
He's part of their core team (working group). He created the "Jumpman Cure Protocol" and several people have started it. I just came from their Twitter and you were mentioned alongside him so I was curious if you worked with him as well.
I'm assuming you've seen their discord?
Oh interesting! I haven’t worked with Jumpman, but it’s possible we worked on the same project and I didn’t know it (my scope was really narrow). I’m not involved with the Jumpman Cure Protocol. I do know about their discord, but since I’m not a member, I am out of the loop with the discussions. I will check this out, thanks a ton for telling me about it.
Awesome. I've been stamping with 0.5mm needle length for some time now and have seen minor improvement.
I have relatively thick scalp so I was wondering if I should go deeper since I very rarely notice any redness or bleeding.
I'll give 0.75mm a try. Thanks
Any findings on if oral minoxidil has similar results with microneedling compared with topical?
Thank you for your amazing work,
I watched your tutorial on making Topical finasteride
And I wonder can i dissolve finasteride pill into Rosemary mint oil ?
Very interesting. Thank you. 😊 My guess would have been a much longer length. Good to know that short is better since that is less uncomfortable and bleeds less. I would imagine that the perfect length would be different depending on the person's individual skin thickness.