Since this is becoming an FAQ: Defense of the Heart has what we call an "intervening if" trigger. It will only trigger if the condition is true as the upkeep begins. If the condition isn't true, then the trigger won't even go on the stack, and it won't go back and trigger if the condition becomes true later on during the upkeep. So when Ladee's upkeep began, no opponent controlled three or more creatures, so the Defense's trigger won't even trigger. Even though Craig will get a third creature during the upkeep, we're passed the point where the Defense would have triggered, so she won't get the Defense trigger that upkeep.
Actually, the ruling on gatherer says that the trigger will check the condition again on resolution. Due to APNAP Greg would've made the snake first, then the Defense trigger would go off and it would check the condition again, seeing that an opponent does indeed have 3 creatures and thus go off.
To add to this: Per Oracle text for Defense of the Heart, "This triggered ability only triggers if your opponent controls 3 or more creatures at the beginning of upkeep. This condition is checked again on resolution."
@@fl1735 It checks as the upkeep begins to see if it should trigger in the first place. And it will check again when it goes to resolve to make sure the condition is still true. But if the condition isn't true as the upkeep begins, then there's no trigger in the first place (and, in the fact, the Gatherer ruling you're referencing backs up this point). *This triggered ability only triggers if your opponent controls 3 or more creatures at the beginning of upkeep.* This condition is checked again on resolution.
Yeah 2 green players, 3 black players, and 1 red player. No board wipes, artifact hate, or creature removal. Pretty sure only 1 piece of removal was used the entire game. Meh game, cool way to finish it though.
I'm definitely noticing Game Knights/Extra Turns are all suffering from enchantments that nobody is willing to blow up. Single target removal is on the rise but letting opponents combo off with non-creature methods is happening a LOT.
Yeah, Bane of Progress, Fracturing Gust, Nevinyrral's Disk and the like may not be splashy, but they put in a lot of work against complicated board states and get rid of annoying artifacts and enchantments!
@@mrknarf4438I feel like mass artifact/enchantment removal doesn't see much play because most of the time you're also blowing up your board just as much, not saying its the smart way to play, just might be why it happens
Most of the removal used is Creature Removal, for those kill on sight Commanders that keep being printed. PS: Also less and less people play White, so no Farewell, Austere Command and Cleansing Nova to save the day.
Honestly its a problem in our local playgroup. we have 2 groups of people who play in paper those with "skill" who play 10plus removals in their deck. vs johnny combos players who only play their combo and lose to one counterspell. there isnt a middle ground
I was sooo happy to see Wilhelt as it is my current (and only) commander. Then he played kamikaze only to make his friend win by giving free mana... Is it actually legal to go together to play with one player's engine only there to ramp and help the other?
Seriously?They've had Joe Manganiello, Post Malone and two of the main characters from the most watched show on Netflix in recent episodes. Call me crazy but I think people would rather see legit celebrities over some people who contribute articles to some website not even half of the entire EDH community visits.
Craig is probably overjoyed: two players lost to infect, and although he also lost, he wasn't one of them (the two triggers that killed him came from the non-infect Alibou copies).
They did also kill the 18/18 Mycoloth with their first set of Alibou triggers so it wasn't the only interaction but yes, they where the only one interacting with the board.
I'm surprised by the lack of interaction in this game. The only removal played was a a path to exile by Chase. So much stuff went unchecked despite the many draws by Joey and the tutors with Razaketh.. But hey when you don't draw you don't draw it! Great game I love Alibou in my zabazz deck.
It always surprises me how little interaction there seems to be in these shows. I feel I always have a targeted removal or board wipe and never see them on these. I get you may not draw into one but it feels like they just don't play them. Idk.
@@Omaly360 They purposely don't run much interaction. Game Knights has always been like that. Extra Turns was supposed to be more optimized decks and less Wizards Advertisement, but it's not really the case anymore lol.
As someone who plays smothering tithe, it happens a lot actually. After two turn cycles if no one blows it up they stop caring about it completely. Their logic when I ask is "You already have X treasure, no point in paying or wasting the removal "
@@jfrizzell6645 As an Alibou player myself, I can concur: the only thing you're scrying for when resolving Alibou triggers is either Mycosynth Lattice or a tutor for Mycosynth Lattice. Everything else doesn't matter.
@@noahcarroll4944 super late reply but i actually don't even run mycosynth anymore - you have the possibility of vandalblasting your opponents and annihilating them from the game, but also, you have the possibility of that happening to you. plus ive had 2 separate instances of farewell send us all back to the start so in my personal experience the pro of scrying 7 more cards is not worth the con of possibly losing everything haha
Yeah! Love EDHRECAST! It’s so great to see them here! And all these decks we incredible! I truly find it’s one of my favourite Extra Turns episode! Greetings from France!
Have you ever considered doing an episode on how you organize your board states? I feel like this is one of the things I struggle with the most, and the board states on Game Knights and Extra Turns are always so clean.
idk i thought ladee made a mistake not bringing out meren early then playing lands to proliferate experience counters so it just depends on the person and how well they know the synergy
@@pedrino321 She at least remembered to actually use Meren's trigger and put something back in her hand. One game she just wouldn't target anything in her graveyard if it wouldn't be revived due to experience counters.
19:32 instead of copying alibou's trigger, it would be more efficient to copy helm of the host's trigger and create a third alibou trigger via a third body instead (also increasing the number of tapped artifacts for said trigger)
Two of my current commanders (Wilhelt and Meren), one of my former ones (Prossh) and one from a deck I'm planning to build around in the future... I like it. 🥰
@@dillongause7528 Assuming you mean "Kenrith"... I'm a Sith deckbuilder and Ravnica fan, so I abide by the Rule of Two: only two colors per deck. I'm currently aiming to build one deck for each 2-color combination. I stopped building three or more colors to make the decks - especially their mana bases - more budget-friendly. 🙃
How is that the 2 decks with green do not run enchantment/artifact removal? They have a ton of cheap ones for target removal, and others for mass removal. With the current meta heavy on both types is kinda weird they don't run those types of cards.
All Lady Danger had to do was tutor up a Bane Of Progress with the Defense Of The Heart, which she's in the colours for and is a great reanimation target, and that would have solved every major problem.
@@precursorboop4380 which is pretty embarrassing considering it's a cheap card that slots in amazingly well for her deck, and even 8 months ago would be pretty powerful as artifacts were already creeping in representation. I mean, she KNOWS at least 2 opponents will be using enchants and artifacts pretty heavily (Wilhelt/zombies have some absolutely brutal enchants and Alibou...literally just artifact tribal). It should be a staple in that kind of deck, and was the optimal play at the time. Shit she even has acidic slime, another reasonable target.
I just wanted to thank you guys for changing the patreon tier costs, so I can afford to support you guys. I'm now part of the 50 dollar annual tier for the first time, and am happy to finally be support the show that has entertained me for years. I've been enjoying your content since 2019 when I started playing the game. I always enjoyed your game knights, extra turns, and even some of the talk show.
When smothering tithe sticks around and everyone essentially ignores it, this is what happens. Have to say, I always thought Alibou looked like a powerful commander.
That was a fantastic combo with Alibou, a commander I haven't seen before. But I would like to POINT OUT that Lady Danger could have milled the top card before it came around to Chase's turn using Sir Konrad. It was very likely after Chase scryed for 27 that she put the best card in her deck on top of her library, and my assumption is that the top card was the inventor's fair used to tutor the grafted exoskelton which ended the game.
It is so friggin awesome seeing Chase here, she not only is a regular at my LGS which is already cool but its even cooler seeing her on here having played against her.
@@PoppinNoggins honestly, it’s less about Tithe and more about the fact that that person kept feeding it and then did a king-making move on their way out
Smothering tithe only gives treasures not card advantage. Sure more mana in form of treasure artifacts especially in an artifact deck are a good thing but it is by far not a sure win without getting the right cards. A simple destroy all arifacts would have been more devastating to Chase's board state. That is why drawing more cards to get an answer sooner than later was the right call.
Despite the comlpex boardstate and everybody doing nuts stuff, I really enjoyed the episode. You can always be 'that person' and say why didn't anybody interact with the problematic pieces, but there were too many to deal with, and also a lot of the times it'll just happen that people simply don't have the answers. Besides, it was a very quick and enthusiastic game. Not every game needs to be a 1-for-1 war of attrition, and this looked like a half an hour of enjoyable table talk and mindmelting amounts of triggers. Always love to see both Joey and Chase, I'd be stoked if you brought on more of the EDHRec folks over for some shenanigans
oh, joey schultz from the edhrecast? wow that's a pretty good show, how did you get a pull like that? theyve got really good editing and post production too maybe you guys should let them know
Lots of questions about Defense of the Heart... so, explanatory comment: Defense of the Heart's trigger is a conditional one (because of the "if"), and it will check for its condition both at the moment of the trigger and as it resolves. If no opponents control three or more creatures before the upkeep starts, Defense of the Heart won't trigger at all. By the time Craig gets his Ophiomancer token, the moment of the trigger has already passed, so Defense of the Heart won't check for its condition until Ladee's next upkeep.
@@Forgember No, Ophiomancer only triggers if you don't control a Snake during the upkeep. Once he has a Snake token, he won't get another one until that Snake token leaves play. And on his turn before her first upkeep with the Defense in play, he sacrificed the Snake token (and his other tokens) to get down to two creatures to stop the Defense from triggering.
The command zone is the WWE of EDH There is no universe ever where a smothering tithe last that long with two green players on the table especially if one has a tutor It’s enjoyable to watch because of the commentary but I know I’m not the only one skeptical
irk. Two players playing Golgari (best enchantment removal and best tutors) and neither of them can find a piece of spot removal for one of the most dangerous value engines in the game?
I'm always happy to see a mycoloth enter the battlefield. One of the first decks that made me be like "oh magic is real neat" was a saproling spam deck, and the fact that it actually managed to hang with my friends somewhat optimized kithkins list
Amazing extra turns! It's awesome to see Chase and Joey on here. I gotta mention Chase with the drag race reference and Lady getting it! Love to see it. That Alibou deck is something else though. Very strong showing. Poor Craig got stopped at pretty much every turn.. gg
This episode is a lesson to everyone: PAY YOUR TAXES! Don't let the rhystic study draw cards, don't let the smothering tithe make treasure, it's ok to limit yourself on spells to cast/cards to draw. Yes you slow down, but if you don't they speed up sooooo much more. ALWAYS PAY YOUR TAXES *some restrictions apply, always use your better judgment
Unlike Rhystic Study, paying for tithe is just bad unless you have an extra two mana lying around. You're spending more mana than you are denying the tithe player. People just needed to play more interaction this game, not sink mana into tithe triggers.
How about an extra turns tournament. 16 players all make a deck and then those are randomly given out to players. The 4 winners get to bring their made deck to the final table. Yay more content?
I really appreciate the narration that the players do. I wish the people I played with (random, not a regular pod) would do a little more of this. Not overdone, but everyone knows what is going on.
I'm posting this b4 I watch the episode, the funny thing I said to myself just the other day is that I would like to see a Command Zone vs Edhrec crews have a face off, and here it is. I sort of don't care who wins the match, I hope it is a good game! They're all great, thanks you all the advice you all have given out over the years!
There are lots of comments about Smothering Tithe not being dealt with. This really is a two-part problem: Do the decks have answers to Smothering Tithe and did the players draw those answers? If a deck has sufficient answers, but does not see them because of random variation, then a powerful card can definitely go unanswered and run away with the game. That just happens sometimes. So the real question is did the other players' have answers in their decks? I reviewed the deck lists quickly and this is what I found: Craig's Prossh: 1 applicable removal spells (!) Ladee's Meren: 4 applicable removal spells (3 of which are creature, and can be recurred from the graveyard) Joey's Wilhelt: 1 appliable removal (in his defense, UB is not strong on enchantment removal) So the answer to the first part is that Craig's deck could be criticized for not having adequate answers. That does seem consistent with his all-or-nothing style, however. Probably the best opportunity to deal with the Smothering Tithe was when Joey and Craig were making a deal to delay the activation of Ladee's Defense of the Heart. They could have asked Ladee if she had a creature to remove the Smothering Tithe and made a deal with her. I think the criticism is warranted primarily in regards to Craig's choices in his deck list. Beyond that, saying that the game was bad because the players didn't deal with it seems like a pretty absurd comment. You cannot deal with a threat unless you draw or tutor for the response.
Unfortunately i thought ladee’s meren deck was weak in power level compared to the other commanders. it’s a shame too cause you can make a relatively cheap meren deck a 7-9 power level and take control of the game early.
Respect to Chase for that Chandra mat. I have a chandra tribal deck, super fun. Also, gotta support Joey for playing dimir. The one colour pairingvI have too many of, and I JUST built Kels too.....
Ladee could have picked up a razaketh and a rec sage/acidic slime with the degree of the heart trigger and politicked with the other two players. It was clear Chase was a turn away from winning on board.
That was I think my favorite episode I have seen on the channel. Seeing things popping off I was hoping Lady was grabbing a mind crank and going for a mill win
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't APNAP rule make it so that on Ladee's upkeep the DoH trigger goes on the stack and then the Ophiomancer and they resolve in reverse order, making it so that Craig has 3 creatures, allowing DoH to get two creatures? @12:19 Again, more so asking rather than pointing out. This was a very fun game to watch, with LOTS of triggers so completely understandable if some were missed. Being able to grab a piece that allows her to tutor, Ladee could have pulled something sooner to the infect threat, who knows. Still though, great display of each deck!
i don't think that it works this way. if a if is written in the rule text it checks on triggering AND resolving and at both moments the conditions have to be true.
The Defense has an "intervening if" trigger - it will only trigger if the condition is true as the upkeep begins. It won't go back and trigger if the condition becomes true later on during the upkeep. When she started her upkeep, no opponent controlled three or more creatures, the Defense won't even trigger, even if an opponent gets a third creature later on during her upkeep.
Defense of the Heart's trigger is a conditional one, and it will check for its condition both at the moment of the trigger and as it resolves. If no opponents control three or more creatures before the upkeep starts, Defense of the Heart won't trigger at all. By the time Craig gets his Ophiomancer token, the moment of the trigger has already passed, so Defense of the Heart won't check for its condition until Ladee's next upkeep.
At 12:13 in Ladee's upkeep the Defense of the Heart trigger should resolve. Defense of the Heart triggers goes to stack before the Ophiomancer trigger because Ladee is the active player, so then Ophiomancer trigger should resolve right before the Defense of the Heart trigger, which would mean Ladee could search for 2 creatures and put them into play. Am I missing something or they missed this?
Just got there and looked to see if someone had mentioned this. Active player triggers go on the stack and then goes around table to resolve anyone else’s triggers. Craig would have the snake and thus 3 creatures for Defense to see.
I came looking for this comment. I hated that they missed this trigger because it was sooooooo good after they thought they got around it. Update: Since Nathan Long posted I went and checked the Oracle and this is the ruling: "This triggered ability only triggers if your opponent controls 3 or more creatures at the beginning of upkeep. This condition is checked again on resolution. " So unfortunately it would not even go on the stack at the beginning of upkeep because the criteria wasn't met.
Haven't been on Twitter for a few years and I had forgotten Chase existed until I heard them introduce her. Was quite a lightning in the brain moment. Glad nobody dealt with her silly cards and won the game
If you don't interact with an artifact deck your gonna have a bad time. Guessing smothering tithe, Helm of the host, and grafted exoskeleton are going to get a bump in price
As if the first two weren't coveted cards already... Smothering Tithe is a staple white card and Helm of the Host will see competitive play as long as Godo exists.
There seems to be some sort of weird aura around Alibou that makes people not interact with it at all. I built an Alibou deck myself and during a game, I got out Forsaken Monument and Basalt Monolith, getting infinite mana. Literally *NO ONE* attempted to destroy either piece. I literally cannot explain why.
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
Since this is becoming an FAQ:
Defense of the Heart has what we call an "intervening if" trigger. It will only trigger if the condition is true as the upkeep begins. If the condition isn't true, then the trigger won't even go on the stack, and it won't go back and trigger if the condition becomes true later on during the upkeep. So when Ladee's upkeep began, no opponent controlled three or more creatures, so the Defense's trigger won't even trigger. Even though Craig will get a third creature during the upkeep, we're passed the point where the Defense would have triggered, so she won't get the Defense trigger that upkeep.
beat me to it (:
Actually, the ruling on gatherer says that the trigger will check the condition again on resolution. Due to APNAP Greg would've made the snake first, then the Defense trigger would go off and it would check the condition again, seeing that an opponent does indeed have 3 creatures and thus go off.
To add to this: Per Oracle text for Defense of the Heart, "This triggered ability only triggers if your opponent controls 3 or more creatures at the beginning of upkeep. This condition is checked again on resolution."
@@fl1735 It checks as the upkeep begins to see if it should trigger in the first place. And it will check again when it goes to resolve to make sure the condition is still true. But if the condition isn't true as the upkeep begins, then there's no trigger in the first place (and, in the fact, the Gatherer ruling you're referencing backs up this point).
*This triggered ability only triggers if your opponent controls 3 or more creatures at the beginning of upkeep.* This condition is checked again on resolution.
@@fl1735 It can't check again on resolution if it fails to trigger in the first place, though.
Who would've thought that the unchecked Smothering Tithe would get out of hand? Fun episode and an interesting finish.
It was hard to watch. Three players and nobody did anything about it. Wild finish though. Funny group too.
Yea I skipped to the end. A game of just mere board building just to lose to tithe in the end.
Yeah 2 green players, 3 black players, and 1 red player. No board wipes, artifact hate, or creature removal. Pretty sure only 1 piece of removal was used the entire game. Meh game, cool way to finish it though.
Yeah does an unchecked tithe ever not win the game haha
@@brandonstevens4513 this might have been the only game where I was actively hoping that the blue deck would counter something
I'm definitely noticing Game Knights/Extra Turns are all suffering from enchantments that nobody is willing to blow up. Single target removal is on the rise but letting opponents combo off with non-creature methods is happening a LOT.
Yeah, Bane of Progress, Fracturing Gust, Nevinyrral's Disk and the like may not be splashy, but they put in a lot of work against complicated board states and get rid of annoying artifacts and enchantments!
@@mrknarf4438I feel like mass artifact/enchantment removal doesn't see much play because most of the time you're also blowing up your board just as much, not saying its the smart way to play, just might be why it happens
Most of the removal used is Creature Removal, for those kill on sight Commanders that keep being printed.
PS: Also less and less people play White, so no Farewell, Austere Command and Cleansing Nova to save the day.
Honestly its a problem in our local playgroup. we have 2 groups of people who play in paper those with "skill" who play 10plus removals in their deck. vs johnny combos players who only play their combo and lose to one counterspell. there isnt a middle ground
@@faerie7dragon 100% correct on white- Especially with so many flexible sweepers and ways to protect your board from your own sweepers
PSA: according to the rules of the game, you can remove enchantments, it's true!
Attacking in with Infect and then saying “you’re going to love Phyrexia” confirms to me that Chase was a Praetor the whole time
She will compleat you.
Honestly a lot of my excitement for this episode was lost due to how little anyone did anything to stop what was obviously the biggest threat.
I was sooo happy to see Wilhelt as it is my current (and only) commander. Then he played kamikaze only to make his friend win by giving free mana... Is it actually legal to go together to play with one player's engine only there to ramp and help the other?
Okay. That was probably the coolest KO on Extra Turns to date
I don't know, man. Manson running over everyone with Zada was pretty awesome too xD
As a Boros player I highly approve.
Well, hope you guys have a copy of grafted exoskeleton. The price just went up
@@Auzweed have it in my inferno deck. Definitely a mean thing
@@Oswen120 it’s in my Nekusar, the mindrazer deck.
"Prepare to get EDHREC'd." is the single hardest line I've ever heard. S+ delivery, too. This is gonna be a good one.
I'm honestly surprised that such great guests are on Extra Turns instead of the main event!
They were there for EDHRECcast edition transition. I guess no time for full featured
Seriously?They've had Joe Manganiello, Post Malone and two of the main characters from the most watched show on Netflix in recent episodes. Call me crazy but I think people would rather see legit celebrities over some people who contribute articles to some website not even half of the entire EDH community visits.
@@jsum33 I know you’re right. Actual celebs bring in more views than Magic content producers. But I don’t necessarily want you to be right.
Great to see Joey here. Love the EDHRECAST. More dad jokes please.
Hoping they do an entire dad joke compilation
Came for the magic, stayed for the dad jokes
Craig is probably overjoyed: two players lost to infect, and although he also lost, he wasn't one of them (the two triggers that killed him came from the non-infect Alibou copies).
Dude spoilers!
My headcanon of Ladee and Craig being the most evil/wholesome besties in the crew grows stronger every day
Was Chase’s Path to Exile the only interactive spell played the entire game?
They did also kill the 18/18 Mycoloth with their first set of Alibou triggers so it wasn't the only interaction but yes, they where the only one interacting with the board.
Welcome to Game Knights!
@@Kunx990 oh well it was a fun and explosive game and the vibe at the table was great! I'm not complaining 😀
@@Strakneus actually chase goes by they/them shame on you for not knowing
@@thewhitemage8763 I am very sorry. You are right. I will edit my comment asap. Thank you🙂
the moment I saw strionic resonator and the kicked Skyclave relic, I was like, "Thaaaaaaaaaaaat's a lot of damage".
Chase could’ve had more copies of skyclave relic early on 😅
I am LIVING for the RPDR reference!! Thanks for mixing my worlds together!
Valentina your smile
Katya referenced mtg on that uhhhh show she does with some amateur queen.
@@williammorgan-boyer9604 She could walk out with a diaper and they'd EAT. HER. UP.
They eat her up every single time she's on that damn stage
I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING! I was hoping to see more straight guys be like "what are those ladies talking about?" 😝
Ladee Danger just is Meren in disguise and you can't convince me otherwise!
NEED MORE JOEY ON COMMAND ZONE PLEASE!
I’ve never seen Joey! I listen to the Edhrec podcast on Spotify all the time and had no idea. So cool seeing him on here!
FINALLY JOEY! Guessed you might whilst getting that sweet VFX/Editing Training
I'm surprised by the lack of interaction in this game. The only removal played was a a path to exile by Chase. So much stuff went unchecked despite the many draws by Joey and the tutors with Razaketh.. But hey when you don't draw you don't draw it! Great game I love Alibou in my zabazz deck.
It always surprises me how little interaction there seems to be in these shows. I feel I always have a targeted removal or board wipe and never see them on these. I get you may not draw into one but it feels like they just don't play them. Idk.
@@Omaly360 They purposely don't run much interaction. Game Knights has always been like that. Extra Turns was supposed to be more optimized decks and less Wizards Advertisement, but it's not really the case anymore lol.
That Joey guy looks a lot like my Syr Konrad... so awesome to finally see EDHREC members on The Command Zone!!!!
Got to love how everyone kept pouring water on a grease fire. Here, please have more treasures to help kill me with.
As someone who plays smothering tithe, it happens a lot actually. After two turn cycles if no one blows it up they stop caring about it completely. Their logic when I ask is "You already have X treasure, no point in paying or wasting the removal "
27:30 wasn’t expecting the valentina vs aja reference but LIVED for it!!
Mana Curves : Kills everyone with infect
Craig : I can’t stay mad at you *heart eyes*
What an awesome game. Ladee's reaction face roundabout 19:03 made me lmao.
Imagne the godly sensation of "Scy 9 three times"
But she really only needed the 1 on top - Inventor's Fair - since she didn't put 9 on the bottom the first time out, she probably had it then!
@@jfrizzell6645 As an Alibou player myself, I can concur: the only thing you're scrying for when resolving Alibou triggers is either Mycosynth Lattice or a tutor for Mycosynth Lattice. Everything else doesn't matter.
@@noahcarroll4944 super late reply but i actually don't even run mycosynth anymore - you have the possibility of vandalblasting your opponents and annihilating them from the game, but also, you have the possibility of that happening to you. plus ive had 2 separate instances of farewell send us all back to the start so in my personal experience the pro of scrying 7 more cards is not worth the con of possibly losing everything haha
@sunflower Well that's why you laser that person to death first. Once you get Mycosynth Lattice, each Alibou trigger turns into 20 damage
9:16 That snake *hiss* was so subtle, yet so satisfying to see. Well done.
Let's talk about the fact that Ladee's outfit is always on point.
She looks like a homeless 1990s punk kid.
She wasn’t even going all in on a look and dialed it back here and she still looks amazing
Loved the unexpected Drag Race reference at 27:26
That made me happy 😃
One of the coolest guests ever. What a fun this game was to watch. AND CRAIG IS ALWAYS A BLAST TO HAVE IN THE TABLE!!!
*Two of.
Yeah! Love EDHRECAST! It’s so great to see them here! And all these decks we incredible! I truly find it’s one of my favourite Extra Turns episode!
Greetings from France!
Have you ever considered doing an episode on how you organize your board states? I feel like this is one of the things I struggle with the most, and the board states on Game Knights and Extra Turns are always so clean.
idk i thought ladee made a mistake not bringing out meren early then playing lands to proliferate experience counters so it just depends on the person and how well they know the synergy
@@pedrino321 She at least remembered to actually use Meren's trigger and put something back in her hand. One game she just wouldn't target anything in her graveyard if it wouldn't be revived due to experience counters.
Lol I love the quivering snake token every time they hiss 😂
19:32 instead of copying alibou's trigger, it would be more efficient to copy helm of the host's trigger and create a third alibou trigger via a third body instead (also increasing the number of tapped artifacts for said trigger)
Nice catch
Two of my current commanders (Wilhelt and Meren), one of my former ones (Prossh) and one from a deck I'm planning to build around in the future... I like it. 🥰
Why not make a deck around Kenereth that way you have 5 colors
@@dillongause7528 Assuming you mean "Kenrith"... I'm a Sith deckbuilder and Ravnica fan, so I abide by the Rule of Two: only two colors per deck. I'm currently aiming to build one deck for each 2-color combination.
I stopped building three or more colors to make the decks - especially their mana bases - more budget-friendly. 🙃
@@dillongause7528 5-color "good stuff" commanders aren't a popular playstyle for some people.
Not tutoring for removal when bronze guardian was on the stack was a huuuuge mistake
Now the Tweet about removing Smothering Tithe from Chase’s decks make a lot of sense. 😂
Joey really made that Smothering Tithe shine by drawing so many cards
How is that the 2 decks with green do not run enchantment/artifact removal? They have a ton of cheap ones for target removal, and others for mass removal. With the current meta heavy on both types is kinda weird they don't run those types of cards.
Wow, Joey having to watch Syr Konrad do work on the opposite side of the field must've been bittersweet.
Seeing Joey on here is amazing !!! And cool to see someone new who is chase I never heard of till now
Loved seeing Joey, hope he comes back for a Game Knights sometime!
Every episode with Ladee Danger is worth, she is so much fun!
you must be happy because she's in most of them! and I agree
All Lady Danger had to do was tutor up a Bane Of Progress with the Defense Of The Heart, which she's in the colours for and is a great reanimation target, and that would have solved every major problem.
Bane of Progress isn't in her deck.
@@precursorboop4380 Ive never even heard of it
@@precursorboop4380 which is pretty embarrassing considering it's a cheap card that slots in amazingly well for her deck, and even 8 months ago would be pretty powerful as artifacts were already creeping in representation. I mean, she KNOWS at least 2 opponents will be using enchants and artifacts pretty heavily (Wilhelt/zombies have some absolutely brutal enchants and Alibou...literally just artifact tribal). It should be a staple in that kind of deck, and was the optimal play at the time. Shit she even has acidic slime, another reasonable target.
I just wanted to thank you guys for changing the patreon tier costs, so I can afford to support you guys. I'm now part of the 50 dollar annual tier for the first time, and am happy to finally be support the show that has entertained me for years. I've been enjoying your content since 2019 when I started playing the game. I always enjoyed your game knights, extra turns, and even some of the talk show.
When smothering tithe sticks around and everyone essentially ignores it, this is what happens. Have to say, I always thought Alibou looked like a powerful commander.
That was a fantastic combo with Alibou, a commander I haven't seen before. But I would like to POINT OUT that Lady Danger could have milled the top card before it came around to Chase's turn using Sir Konrad. It was very likely after Chase scryed for 27 that she put the best card in her deck on top of her library, and my assumption is that the top card was the inventor's fair used to tutor the grafted exoskelton which ended the game.
Ladee was a true lady letting her guest win
nobody bothered to interact with Chase at all. Just let them run crazy with smothering tithe and win.
Oooh Im so glad you got Joey on the show, I absolutely love their podcast
It is so friggin awesome seeing Chase here, she not only is a regular at my LGS which is already cool but its even cooler seeing her on here having played against her.
Yes Joey playing black like I knew you would, so proud
27:30 "She could walk out onto the battlefield in a fucking diaper and the judges would be like 'oh Meren, your smile is ADORABLE'"
OMG YES HAHAHA WASNT EXPECTING THE VALENTINA VS AJA REFERENCE
Who knew that a Smothering Tithe nobody bothers to touch could lead so such an easy win?
Who though someone would see a smothering tithe and deside to draw 20 cards, just cause.
Yeah, what do you know, another game dominated by an early, untouched smothering tithe. How interesting...
@@PoppinNoggins honestly, it’s less about Tithe and more about the fact that that person kept feeding it and then did a king-making move on their way out
Smothering tithe only gives treasures not card advantage. Sure more mana in form of treasure artifacts especially in an artifact deck are a good thing but it is by far not a sure win without getting the right cards. A simple destroy all arifacts would have been more devastating to Chase's board state. That is why drawing more cards to get an answer sooner than later was the right call.
@@phelanwolf6747 I agree & don’t agree, you can still pay while drawing
Love Joey's energy :) too bad we didn't saw a board wipe or anything or else the game would have been alot more awesome xD
A Rupaul's reference in an Extra Turns episode. I loved it so much. Thanks Chase ^_^
Despite the comlpex boardstate and everybody doing nuts stuff, I really enjoyed the episode. You can always be 'that person' and say why didn't anybody interact with the problematic pieces, but there were too many to deal with, and also a lot of the times it'll just happen that people simply don't have the answers.
Besides, it was a very quick and enthusiastic game. Not every game needs to be a 1-for-1 war of attrition, and this looked like a half an hour of enjoyable table talk and mindmelting amounts of triggers. Always love to see both Joey and Chase, I'd be stoked if you brought on more of the EDHRec folks over for some shenanigans
oh, joey schultz from the edhrecast? wow that's a pretty good show, how did you get a pull like that? theyve got really good editing and post production too maybe you guys should let them know
To be fair, Chase does the production for the EDHREC cast nowadays.
Love the edhrec cast! It's so great to see y'all playing with Joey ^-^
It was great to see the edhrec cast come on the show! Hopefully they return some time
Lots of questions about Defense of the Heart... so, explanatory comment:
Defense of the Heart's trigger is a conditional one (because of the "if"), and it will check for its condition both at the moment of the trigger and as it resolves. If no opponents control three or more creatures before the upkeep starts, Defense of the Heart won't trigger at all.
By the time Craig gets his Ophiomancer token, the moment of the trigger has already passed, so Defense of the Heart won't check for its condition until Ladee's next upkeep.
@@Forgember No, Ophiomancer only triggers if you don't control a Snake during the upkeep. Once he has a Snake token, he won't get another one until that Snake token leaves play. And on his turn before her first upkeep with the Defense in play, he sacrificed the Snake token (and his other tokens) to get down to two creatures to stop the Defense from triggering.
The command zone is the WWE of EDH
There is no universe ever where a smothering tithe last that long with two green players on the table especially if one has a tutor
It’s enjoyable to watch because of the commentary but I know I’m not the only one skeptical
irk. Two players playing Golgari (best enchantment removal and best tutors) and neither of them can find a piece of spot removal for one of the most dangerous value engines in the game?
I'm always happy to see a mycoloth enter the battlefield. One of the first decks that made me be like "oh magic is real neat" was a saproling spam deck, and the fact that it actually managed to hang with my friends somewhat optimized kithkins list
I have never seen the phrase "Optimized kithkin list" and it has me very intrigued
@@TwilitLugia this was right after lorwynn so the block constructed powerhouses were fairies and kithkin
Joey on the Command Zone!!! We need some more EDHREC cast on this show.
Finally! The EDHREC crossover episode!!
Love that Craig is playing Dragon Shield sleeves like a turn mtg player
Some high level playing over here! Great watch! Thanks yall
Finally we see the edhrec cast :) :) please more of them
Amazing extra turns! It's awesome to see Chase and Joey on here. I gotta mention Chase with the drag race reference and Lady getting it! Love to see it. That Alibou deck is something else though. Very strong showing. Poor Craig got stopped at pretty much every turn.. gg
This episode is a lesson to everyone: PAY YOUR TAXES! Don't let the rhystic study draw cards, don't let the smothering tithe make treasure, it's ok to limit yourself on spells to cast/cards to draw. Yes you slow down, but if you don't they speed up sooooo much more. ALWAYS PAY YOUR TAXES
*some restrictions apply, always use your better judgment
Unlike Rhystic Study, paying for tithe is just bad unless you have an extra two mana lying around. You're spending more mana than you are denying the tithe player. People just needed to play more interaction this game, not sink mana into tithe triggers.
@@calebyarbrough7705 Don’t play greedy. Play a spell, pay the tax and pass.
So awesome to see Chase and Joey. Have to get them back soon again 💕
How about an extra turns tournament. 16 players all make a deck and then those are randomly given out to players. The 4 winners get to bring their made deck to the final table. Yay more content?
I really appreciate the narration that the players do. I wish the people I played with (random, not a regular pod) would do a little more of this. Not overdone, but everyone knows what is going on.
:D I have been waiting for Joey at the Command Zone for sooooo long!!!
Loved the game and loved the guests! Chase is one of my favorite content creators and that Alibou deck SLAPS! GGs all!
I'm posting this b4 I watch the episode, the funny thing I said to myself just the other day is that I would like to see a Command Zone vs Edhrec crews have a face off, and here it is. I sort of don't care who wins the match, I hope it is a good game! They're all great, thanks you all the advice you all have given out over the years!
@27:29 I love Ladee and Chase, never would have thought drag race would be referenced on this channel
Wait, a Meren deck is at the table and Joey isn’t playing it?
There are lots of comments about Smothering Tithe not being dealt with. This really is a two-part problem: Do the decks have answers to Smothering Tithe and did the players draw those answers? If a deck has sufficient answers, but does not see them because of random variation, then a powerful card can definitely go unanswered and run away with the game. That just happens sometimes. So the real question is did the other players' have answers in their decks?
I reviewed the deck lists quickly and this is what I found:
Craig's Prossh: 1 applicable removal spells (!)
Ladee's Meren: 4 applicable removal spells (3 of which are creature, and can be recurred from the graveyard)
Joey's Wilhelt: 1 appliable removal (in his defense, UB is not strong on enchantment removal)
So the answer to the first part is that Craig's deck could be criticized for not having adequate answers. That does seem consistent with his all-or-nothing style, however.
Probably the best opportunity to deal with the Smothering Tithe was when Joey and Craig were making a deal to delay the activation of Ladee's Defense of the Heart. They could have asked Ladee if she had a creature to remove the Smothering Tithe and made a deal with her.
I think the criticism is warranted primarily in regards to Craig's choices in his deck list. Beyond that, saying that the game was bad because the players didn't deal with it seems like a pretty absurd comment. You cannot deal with a threat unless you draw or tutor for the response.
And I thought Lady would tutor for an obscuring haze. That would have been the card in this moment.
It’s such a good card and people don’t respect it
Unfortunately i thought ladee’s meren deck was weak in power level compared to the other commanders. it’s a shame too cause you can make a relatively cheap meren deck a 7-9 power level and take control of the game early.
Respect to Chase for that Chandra mat. I have a chandra tribal deck, super fun. Also, gotta support Joey for playing dimir. The one colour pairingvI have too many of, and I JUST built Kels too.....
Ladee could have picked up a razaketh and a rec sage/acidic slime with the degree of the heart trigger and politicked with the other two players. It was clear Chase was a turn away from winning on board.
Aja reference giving me whiplash forgetting what side of TH-cam I’m on hahaha loved having her as a guest!
I hope this video send folks over to their YT channel their content should easily have over 100k subscribers great stuff as always
Loved this episode. Bonus points for Chase and Ladee quoting RPDR!
damn, that ending was intense
DID YOU STONE THOSE TIGHTS?????
Loved the drag race moment there 🤣
Seriously ladee, why didn’t you tutor for force of vigor, nature’s claim, beast within etc for the smothering tithe?
Implying they played any interaction
she does not play any of those cards, in fact she plays play not instants or sorceries that can kill artifacts or enchantment's
I LOVE that this game showed off Alibou. Absolutely underrated commander. Just the absolute best. That was DOPE
That was I think my favorite episode I have seen on the channel.
Seeing things popping off I was hoping Lady was grabbing a mind crank and going for a mill win
Totally enjoyed this episode! Love the decks that both Ladee and Craig build. Really great to see Chase and Joey!
great to see joey on this!
In a lot of ways Extra Turns is better than Game Knights imo.
Love the personal decks and the guests
Joey on extra turns, hell yes!!!
Yeah watch as he gives the weather balloon the direct win by drawing so many cards for literally no reason
27:30 AHHHHH, SO Ladee and Chase are confirmed the best players on Game Knights!! The Aja vs Valentina reference will live RENT FREE
Correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't APNAP rule make it so that on Ladee's upkeep the DoH trigger goes on the stack and then the Ophiomancer and they resolve in reverse order, making it so that Craig has 3 creatures, allowing DoH to get two creatures? @12:19 Again, more so asking rather than pointing out. This was a very fun game to watch, with LOTS of triggers so completely understandable if some were missed. Being able to grab a piece that allows her to tutor, Ladee could have pulled something sooner to the infect threat, who knows. Still though, great display of each deck!
I was thinking the same thing
i don't think that it works this way. if a if is written in the rule text it checks on triggering AND resolving and at both moments the conditions have to be true.
@@PuTeee89 Hmm, right I see. But even then, wouldn't Craig's Ophiomancer make a snake even before Ladee's DoH checks the battlefield?
The Defense has an "intervening if" trigger - it will only trigger if the condition is true as the upkeep begins. It won't go back and trigger if the condition becomes true later on during the upkeep. When she started her upkeep, no opponent controlled three or more creatures, the Defense won't even trigger, even if an opponent gets a third creature later on during her upkeep.
Defense of the Heart's trigger is a conditional one, and it will check for its condition both at the moment of the trigger and as it resolves. If no opponents control three or more creatures before the upkeep starts, Defense of the Heart won't trigger at all.
By the time Craig gets his Ophiomancer token, the moment of the trigger has already passed, so Defense of the Heart won't check for its condition until Ladee's next upkeep.
There will never be any cards more humble than Mana Vault and Smothering Tithe.
Chase's deck is awesome!
So happy to see Alibou getting time in the spotlight. Super underrated commander when compared to Osgir and super effective.
At 12:13 in Ladee's upkeep the Defense of the Heart trigger should resolve. Defense of the Heart triggers goes to stack before the Ophiomancer trigger because Ladee is the active player, so then Ophiomancer trigger should resolve right before the Defense of the Heart trigger, which would mean Ladee could search for 2 creatures and put them into play. Am I missing something or they missed this?
You are correct, they missed the order of triggers. Her Defense of the Heart should have gone off
Ophiomancer states "at the beginning" and Defence has "during" upkeep too
Just got there and looked to see if someone had mentioned this. Active player triggers go on the stack and then goes around table to resolve anyone else’s triggers. Craig would have the snake and thus 3 creatures for Defense to see.
@@EthanLong1 I was thinking the exact same thing. I was really confused why Craig kept saying Ophiomancer triggers at END of upkeep.
I came looking for this comment. I hated that they missed this trigger because it was sooooooo good after they thought they got around it.
Update: Since Nathan Long posted I went and checked the Oracle and this is the ruling: "This triggered ability only triggers if your opponent controls 3 or more creatures at the beginning of upkeep. This condition is checked again on resolution.
" So unfortunately it would not even go on the stack at the beginning of upkeep because the criteria wasn't met.
Haven't been on Twitter for a few years and I had forgotten Chase existed until I heard them introduce her. Was quite a lightning in the brain moment. Glad nobody dealt with her silly cards and won the game
If you don't interact with an artifact deck your gonna have a bad time. Guessing smothering tithe, Helm of the host, and grafted exoskeleton are going to get a bump in price
As if the first two weren't coveted cards already... Smothering Tithe is a staple white card and Helm of the Host will see competitive play as long as Godo exists.
nah, the players are to blame. they should know never to leave those cards in the game lol
There seems to be some sort of weird aura around Alibou that makes people not interact with it at all. I built an Alibou deck myself and during a game, I got out Forsaken Monument and Basalt Monolith, getting infinite mana. Literally *NO ONE* attempted to destroy either piece.
I literally cannot explain why.
Awesome game! I hope to see many more in the future :D
Thank you for entertaining us!