The "boyfriend service" thing needs to stop, IMO. Young kids that are into kpop and buying into this fantasy are more likely to grow up with unrealistic expectations of what real, healthy, romantic relationships are actually like.
Yes yes and YES like I couldn’t agree more! And it’s just weird tbh like… these are real people having to do boyfriend service AND THEY DO NOT EVEN GET PAID ENOUGH FOR THIS like c’mon😭😭 ~ imagine being a 18+ y.o. And you’re doing boyfriend fantasy stuff… idk. It would feel weird too
regarding the first one...we should kind of consider that sometimes the company may stil force the members to play along wiht the narrative even if theyre not "struggling rookies" and we frankly have no idea what's going on behind there
We do not own the artists! They can't possibly date any of us irl even if they give fanservice. Why would you want them to be lonely forever instead of happy??
I don't think woosan is entirely fanservice. They even got matching tattoos together. No one would go so far to get something engraved on your body for mere fanservice
I think as far as the "boyfriend service" goes, male idols don't ask for or deserve the backlash, but i think they SHOULD mentally prepare for it and assume it's going to happen. also this vid was soooo fun it literally felt like i was just dishing with my judies. thank you legendaric queens!!!!
I think there’s more shipping among boy groups because Kpop fans are majority girls and and shipping is usually about consciously or subconsciously projecting your own desires onto other people.
35:23 it’s because a lot of girls fetishise gay mlm relationships, and they would rather their faves be with a guy than be with another woman. also because male idols act softer than a lot of men, male and female fans stereotype them as gay. i think shipping is common in girl groups if one of them is boyish or has a lot of lesbian fans but in general gg ships are more friendship because in society women tend to show a lot more platonic affection towards each other so their interactions aren’t seen as gay. but the girlies are shipped with random bg members ALL THE TIME. Usually people they never even publicly spoken to. I think romantic shipping members is really problematic, it stereotypes and fetishises gay people. It also is so inappropriate to be writing 18+ content about real people who know each other. The fantasy is between the fan and the idol. Not between an idol and their friends. You can imagine whatever you want but when you start believing they’re actually dating and saying they are lying to the audience and keeping the relationship a secret, it’s completely wrong! When the idols do get married or date, they receive so much hate because they broke that fantasy someone made in their head that they are dating their members. Look at what happened with 1D and Larry. Shipping is toxic and needs to stop
My thoughts exactly. I also don't understand headcanoning real people and assigning them identities. Why would anyone do that? I think some closeted queer idols may actually feel uncomfortable with people discussing their labels, it's just so wrong. All the "fruity" jokes are just cringy at this point, because they perpetuate stereotypes such as: men can't be affectionate with each other, like friendships don't exist apparently? Everything is sexual and romantic. I'm sorry if people aren't comfortable with their own orientation or identity, but using real people as their comfort characters is not the right thing to do. If people want to feel represented then it's good to support artists who are out as queer, not assuming things about those who may identify differently than the label stans slapped on them. Overly sexual comments like "d*ddy" or whatever from thirsty fans are embarrassing as well. People need to learn boundaries. I also get annoyed at the "omfg, his wife will be lucky" or "I can't wait to see X with wife and kids" comments, what the hell? I wish people minded their own business. Or the "NSFW headcanons" where people discuss idols and their kinks and some are genuinely convinced they're right, I'm sorry, but that's just not normal. First of all, why would they even think about it, second of all, the level of delusion is off the charts. But on Twitter it's actually more acceptable to think everyone's gay than straight, lol, because you get called homophobic otherwise. And I say it as someone who is queer too.
@@s.k.t Yeah I agree. There are so many artists who are out as queer and make people feel represented, fans don’t need to start imagining stuff up about idols to satisfy themselves. It annoys me when fans accuse celebrities of queerbaiting, just because they assume certain personality traits or being “sassy” means you’re gay. These are harmful stereotypes. If they’re gay and they want to come out and it’s safe enough to do so, then they will! But they haven’t for a reason, so we should respect that and not slap any labels onto them. I come from a very homophobic country like korea and i don’t know any openly gay people there, all my out lgbtq+ friends are living abroad. If you’ve ever tried to date as a queer person, you’ll soon find that twitter was lying to you and in fact the VAST majority of people are very straight! And these idols are most likely straight. It’s not homophobic to realise probability. Anyway whether it’s a gay or straight ship, it’s so rude to start speculating on who someone likes to sleep with. Yep the delulus need help!
just wanna share: not a movie but there was a kpop fanfic that turned into a very successful Thai BL series. btw loving all the topics of your podcasts
there are already a couple out there but at top is 2g3th3r: th3 s3ri3s (I don’t want to promote it so just look it up anyway 😅) which its author is an ex0 stan.
I actually agree with the first one tho. Anyone can see how toxic JK stans react when JK is with another girl, or how IU is hated everytime bcuz JK is her fan. So if u dont wanna get so much backlash if u were caught dating, then don't market on those types of fans, do it like TXT were they literally friendzoned the whole fandom (it's still not good bcuz they're selling the "we're besties" idea to their fans when we're CLEARLY not friends with them at all, but it's better than bf)
About "forcing" your friends to like kpop, my advice would be to pay attention to the type of music they like and then show them kpop songs that have the same influences or genres. Kpop is so vast and they may not know how many hidden gems there are because they think kpop is just bubblegum pop, with fun and colorful concepts and catchy phrases that don't make sense. I say this as someone who also used to have this stereotypical mindset about kpop music until I found some songs that fit my personal taste, and ended up going down the whole rabbit hole lol. Of course kpop isn't for everyone, so some people might not like it even if the song sounds like something they would normally listen to, but I think it's a good way to introduce kpop to people who aren't familiar with it.
Yes to whoever said perfect timing, I have to drive quite a long way to the grocery store to order one of my kids' birthday cake and I have grocery shopping to do so I have something to listen to now!
The thing about western interpretations on how idols show platonic affection is so true, and about the shipping it really does have to do with women and their fetishization of gay men like why else are they that obsessed with romantically shipping male idols lol, its so normalized
This Podcast wouldn't be complete without a few hot takes on why "2nd Gen Kpop was better", so I am very joyful to see an entire chapter of the video with that title. I am a full on late 3rd and 4th Gen Kpop fan and I consider Angelina to be the only reliable source of those better, free times of live singing. Thank you for keeping 2nd Gen alive.
Your podcast is such a breath of fresh air in the kpop fandom scene! I've watched every single one and their always so interesting, hilarious, and entertaining! Also drop the skincare routine sis
1) For the first one, thats what we call a parasocial realtionship, and alot of people fall into with both kpop idols, actors, streamer, and even characters (anime/otome games characters). That being said, I personally think they ARE the kpop villain in this case. From the cases they named, the backlash was absolutely horrible and no matter what their career is, no person should feel and be treated like that just because they want to get married and live a happy life with someone real. Like all these fans like to ship or create drama between idols but get mad when they get in actual relationships. It's fun to create fantasies and live in those as long as you dont feel possesive of someone being part of that fantasy. Sorry not sorry. What do you expect? For them to MARRY the FANDOM?? Again, fun to play into the fantasy and to daydream with the idols u stan, thats okay, but from that to say they deserve and are responsible of the backlash is just- No. It's part of their role, its part of their job. It is on you for taking that role seriously and EXPECTING smth in return of ur own feelings. TKV frfr. 2) I don’t think this person is TKV. I personally was never around during 2nd gen, i came in when it was abt to finish and 3rd Gen was starting. I see what they talk abt and i get it. More people means more toxic fans cause thats how it works. But it also means more recognition and appreciation and growth for the kpop groups and companies. I totally get what they mean and I lowkey agree. Lately, with anything really, not just kpop but yk, we're talking abt kpop xD I do think people overanalyse things, people over react, share a hella lot of misinformation and clips taken out of contexts etc. No one can even breath in the right manner and it is annoying that so many people seem to be toxic within the community. again, NOT the TKV. Personally i have little to o interaction with the fandoms of the groups i stan aside of reading comments and liking videos/comments i like. 3) uhm- listen ik the OP said they're logical but that doesnt meant they couldn’t have supported their friend? like- Just say its gonna be hard, so you'll have to take it seriously and work really really hard if you want that to come true. Or tell her that u are getting kinda tired of hearing abt it, instead of listing the reasons why you think its not gonna happen. Like bruh- idk the OP sounded really off. TKV tired of typing, ill comment on the rest of the cases if y'all want idk xD
I believe in soulmates and platonic loves, and as a STAY, there had been many conversation from Stray Kids members how most of them just like & do skinship naturally and even clips behind the scene, where the camera is not focus on them, there are the members on the back still being as goofy and touchy to each other. I'm okay with ship because the meaning of the word had become more broad as more international fans know kpop. I see "ship" as a word of 2 members that i love having interactions of each other, and no, it doesnt have to be sexual. What's not okay is forcing your beliefs of someone 'sexuality' and use "ship" as an excuse. Pretty sure the members won't be comfortable with that either. So yeah, woosan? I believe they are very comfortable to each other and just like to do skinship. Also, as someone who is also touchy to a lot of my friends, i can see myself in them since i'm that close with my bestfriends.
k-pop is really cringy sometimes, so yeah, it's not a good decision to show it to your friends or family. showing them some bands or reappears is safer, i guess
I think that it's okay to tell your friends about something that you like and somehow force them to like it. Everyone wants to talk with someone about their favorite things. If you aren't co-workers, after they'll lose interest in other your common interest, you can end your friendship cuz you'll not have other things to talk about. It's really important to have common interests
The issue I have with the boyfriend service is its one thing if they're a rookie struggling to sell but other groups have made it clear they are not your boyfriend and they still do well. Plus these are young impressionable kids that use oppa as an escape. Im not surprised when they get backlash. Im not saying its right but the industry really needs to do better with parasocial relationships
But we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. How do we know management and PR isn’t telling them to do this and that? We shouldn’t assume: that makes a arse out of ourselves. Blaming them gets nothing solved.💖
@@anyone1111 once you get to a certain level you can tell management to fk off bc you already made your money and just fufilling a contract. and I blame the industry as you can see in my last sentence
I don't think the first one was a villain. Saying someone deserves it is different from wishing them the bad karma. It's just saying "they asked for it". Because I do agree at a certain extent. Idols could really just start being real for once and say that their fans are just their friends but still with limitations. They should start educating their own fans on their platforms. A lot of fans are still gonna support them and a lot of them will actually be hit with a bit of reality, especially the young ones. Them encouraging the delusional ones with their fantasies are gonna face the consequence of heavier backlash when they're gonna have relationships and they're gonna regret tolerating fans' bullshit.
it's stupid how people want to become an idol, when they can become independent artists. why choosing the hardest way, already knowing truth about k-pop industry?😐
Je ne veut pas être creepy, mais je me demande vraiment d’où vous venez…😅 Genre dans quel coin du Québec… The boyfriend service shiuld not existe IMO, it’s doing nothing for me, like it’s not real!!! Aaahhhhhhhhhh!!!
Coming in hot with some insider information as someone who reads ateez fanfics and is on nsfw twitter. First off, a disclaimer 😅 i watched a big chunk of that section on mute but the subs were in full sentences, so I trust their accuracy. Secondly: yes, its all part of the fantasy or experience or what you want to call it. I know it’s not real. I know that I do not, and will not ever know ateez personally behind the cameras. Thirdly (and so on), on nsfw twitter at least, we basically operate on a ”what they don’t know can’t hurt them” coupled with a ”leave us the f alone” basis. We block the official accounts, yell at minors to stay the hell out of here and sensor the hell out of idols names and everything surrounding them, all to prevent our stuff from showing up in searches so if (when) idols look up their name, all they’ll see is praise, critisism, photos and vids from shows and stuff. Oh, and soft ranging to explicit thirst posts from sfw twitter. Very often those are posted straight into the comments or quote retweets of the official accounts 🙃 But that’s fine! A sfw woman answering a tweet asking about mingi’s position in ateez with ”in bed folding me over like a lawn chair” went semi-viral and everybody was laughing. But when a nsfw person points at woosan and says ”they kiss” or call seonghwa a milf or a trans person liking the thought of seonghwa being trans too, it’s disgusting and we should kill ourselves. And yes, that has really happened. The queerphobia of the antis is truly a special brand. That particular witch hunt was started by a minor, no less. To end it off, hopefully on s more positive note, I do agree with your verdict. Any person have a right to say ”I don’t want to hear about this” and the shipper must respect that and vice versa. But for gods sake, don’t say it like the example person did, because if the shipper does it right, the idols will *never* find it out in the first place. Be decent and don’t shame them for a fun thing.
To be honest I don't understand it. I can't say I respect it either, but as long as I don't have to see it... sadly once in a while I come across NSFW tweets (I even had shippers reply to my tweets and it was gross), so I just block those people. Still, shipping and NSFW things are an issue to me. And it applies to Y/N fantasies as well - I'm on tumblr and get bombarded with explicit content, it's just weird and unnecessary. They're real people after all... it feels invasive as hell. Just because idols won't see it doesn't mean it's not a problem. And shipping seems like a fetishization of mlm, because as far as I know most people who engage with sexual content aren't actually gay men... Maybe it's because I'm aro-ace and hate the sexualization and romanticization of everything. I know shipping and fanfiction about real people won't go away (and kpop companies are definitely to blame as well), but I just can't wrap my head around it.
@@s.k.t I’m genuinely sorry on your behalf that you still come across it, but I also wanted to thank you for blocking and moving on. We prefer that option much more than witch hunts. Funnily enough, as a fellow aro-ace I also find Y/N fiction weird and gross. It makes it ”too real” for me. There’s been many interesting discussions of if shipping is fetishizing mlm and I’m hoping there’ll be more in the future. What I can say it that yes, there’s a huge lack of gay men in mlm spaces, especially in commercial spaces like printed mlm books and BL shows (for instance, one lead actor in a thai BL show turned out to be homophobic and I’m sure there’s many more both in front of and behind camera) but from my decade long experience of fandom and ao3 spaces, *many* of both creators and consumers have been all kinds of queer. And many from that queer group have also been under the trans umbrella. When it’s queer people writing queer stories their ”brand” on queerness isn’t the most important part to me, personally, and that goes for all fandoms I’ve ever been in.
@@pinkseonghwa Yeah, there's not much I can do about it. But I did ask writers on Tumblr and Twitter not to use my gifs for their stories, because it makes me uncomfortable and I had some not very nice experiences with those people. I see, well for me it doesn't matter whether it's Y/N x idol or member x member, it's all the same for me. A lot of those stories are too realistic and based on actual events that happened, so I can't tolerate it. I like to view people as friends, not sexualise or romanticise every single interaction and quite frankly I'm tired of people doing it, not just in fandom spaces, but in life as well. I understand queer people shipping or writing same sex stories seems a bit better than straight people doing it, and I generally agree, but it's still gives me the ick. Especially when fans assign genders and identities, I just think it's unfair and I would hate if someone did that to me. I also like to think there are aro and ace people among idols, but I would never headcanon them as such. And I know for many fans it's definitely not just a fantasy, they may say it is, but I met a few people who turned out to be delusional shippers behind the closet doors or they had all these conspiracy theories about idols and their preferences. I just don't see the appeal and reason behind such behaviour, queer people or not. Because real humans aren't fictional characters we can shape the way we want.
@@s.k.t I totally see where you’re coming from, and 2 years ago when I too avoided rpf, I would’ve agreed with you on some points. I still do, I too think some people take it too far, especially in spaces that’s not meant for it and people analyzing every single action is very ugh. I’ve been mulling it over why I don’t mind rpf fiction and it basically mulls down to 1. I’ve always been a ship and let ship person. The X button exists for a reason. 2. My first ever ship and fandom was rpf. Makes it very interwoven with point 1. I was more delulu and generally quite obsessed with the band back then but could still tell reality apart from fiction (and if anyone’s curious, it was not 1D). 3. I see pretty much everything about an idol as a persona. A character. All we know is how they are on stage and in front of a camera. Not how they are alone in the dorms or at home with their families. In front of fans they are in Idol mode, playing a straight, cis, single and virgin character that don’t smoke and never swear. It’s those Idol characters that I ship basically. Put them in a fanfic (my preffered medium) and they’re even more a character who happens to share the idols face, name and some general traits. Similar to how Captain America happens to share Chris Evans’ face. They’re words on a screen. And yes, there are idol aus in fanfic, but there’s also coffee shop aus, space aus, vampire and zombie aus. Are we still thinking that an idol on stage and an idol killing zombies are interchangeable? 4. You find people making assumptions about you highly uncomfomfortable. I understand that and the reasons why. But I don’t get uncomfortable with it. And I’ve had people make assumptions. I’ve floored more than one coworker when they found out I’m ace and a virgin while also being almost 30. I found their reactions hilarious more than anything. In the end, it’s all about boundaries isn’t it? Your boundaries for fiction stops at rpf (or before since you mentioned you didn’t like anything romantic or sexual?). I respect that. Mine stop at a later point and all I want is to be respected for that too. Then we can agree to disagree all what we want.
@@pinkseonghwa I hear this "idol persona" argument a lot and I agree to a certain extent, because yes, we don't know them, yes they often can't show their true selves, however it feels unfair to assume idols are always acting, especially nowadays when a lot of them are allowed to be more genuine. So to me it's different than actual actors portraying fictional characters. And it's interesting that a lot of people are okay with self-insert stories, but not member x member ships and vice versa. It's the same thing. I would argue that member x member stories seem more realistic, because everyone included is a real person. Like I said, the least I can do is block people who share NSFW content, but it's tiring especially when I see it under my posts or tweets. People are too comfortable being inappropriate in public. I would personally feel weirded out if random people wrote very kinky stories about me and my friends, assumed my gender and identity or even joked about it for their own benefit. And that actually happened to - people tried to put me in certain boxes. Apparently I'm also dating all my friends, lol. So I can imagine some closeted queer idols may dislike it too. Some might not of course. We clearly won't see eye to eye on this, because as you can tell I have strong opinions and they won't change, you have your own views as well and that's okay. I don't go out of my way to hate on shippers and writers unprovoked, but I do have my problems with the whole shipping and fanfiction culture and I won't pretend otherwise. And when people try to justify smut and shipping as something bigger, it's just doesn't sit right with me. I personally can't detach myself from reality to the point of forgetting these are real human beings, so yeah RPF is definitely not for me. And I'm wary of anyone who aggressively defends real people smut and shipping due to my bad experiences with lots of them. And again, my identity also influences the way I feel.
The "boyfriend service" thing needs to stop, IMO. Young kids that are into kpop and buying into this fantasy are more likely to grow up with unrealistic expectations of what real, healthy, romantic relationships are actually like.
I've never agreed to something somebody said more. I thought I was the only person who thought this
Yes yes and YES like I couldn’t agree more! And it’s just weird tbh like… these are real people having to do boyfriend service
AND THEY DO NOT EVEN GET PAID ENOUGH FOR THIS like c’mon😭😭
~ imagine being a 18+ y.o. And you’re doing boyfriend fantasy stuff… idk. It would feel weird too
regarding the first one...we should kind of consider that sometimes the company may stil force the members to play along wiht the narrative even if theyre not "struggling rookies" and we frankly have no idea what's going on behind there
True. They don’t even get a choice on their style or hair colors for each concept. You have a good point!
Mamamoo's Solar auditioned for almost every company if I remember well and RBW (her current label) was the only one to accept her.
Did y’all forget the in person 1st gen fights 💀💀💀 over HOT. I think fan culture has evolved to whatever platform they have
We do not own the artists! They can't possibly date any of us irl even if they give fanservice. Why would you want them to be lonely forever instead of happy??
Especially when they’re like 23 like…. They’re adults!
I don't think woosan is entirely fanservice. They even got matching tattoos together. No one would go so far to get something engraved on your body for mere fanservice
Perfect timing, now I can listen to it while working on my presentation
babes I'm doing the same thing
@@pablojoelaban363 good luck!!
i hope you two continue this podcast for more episodes, it's lovely and entertaining to hear both of your thoughts!
Thank you 💕
I think as far as the "boyfriend service" goes, male idols don't ask for or deserve the backlash, but i think they SHOULD mentally prepare for it and assume it's going to happen.
also this vid was soooo fun it literally felt like i was just dishing with my judies. thank you legendaric queens!!!!
I think there’s more shipping among boy groups because Kpop fans are majority girls and and shipping is usually about consciously or subconsciously projecting your own desires onto other people.
35:23 it’s because a lot of girls fetishise gay mlm relationships, and they would rather their faves be with a guy than be with another woman. also because male idols act softer than a lot of men, male and female fans stereotype them as gay. i think shipping is common in girl groups if one of them is boyish or has a lot of lesbian fans but in general gg ships are more friendship because in society women tend to show a lot more platonic affection towards each other so their interactions aren’t seen as gay. but the girlies are shipped with random bg members ALL THE TIME. Usually people they never even publicly spoken to.
I think romantic shipping members is really problematic, it stereotypes and fetishises gay people. It also is so inappropriate to be writing 18+ content about real people who know each other. The fantasy is between the fan and the idol. Not between an idol and their friends. You can imagine whatever you want but when you start believing they’re actually dating and saying they are lying to the audience and keeping the relationship a secret, it’s completely wrong! When the idols do get married or date, they receive so much hate because they broke that fantasy someone made in their head that they are dating their members. Look at what happened with 1D and Larry. Shipping is toxic and needs to stop
My thoughts exactly.
I also don't understand headcanoning real people and assigning them identities. Why would anyone do that? I think some closeted queer idols may actually feel uncomfortable with people discussing their labels, it's just so wrong. All the "fruity" jokes are just cringy at this point, because they perpetuate stereotypes such as: men can't be affectionate with each other, like friendships don't exist apparently? Everything is sexual and romantic. I'm sorry if people aren't comfortable with their own orientation or identity, but using real people as their comfort characters is not the right thing to do. If people want to feel represented then it's good to support artists who are out as queer, not assuming things about those who may identify differently than the label stans slapped on them.
Overly sexual comments like "d*ddy" or whatever from thirsty fans are embarrassing as well. People need to learn boundaries. I also get annoyed at the "omfg, his wife will be lucky" or "I can't wait to see X with wife and kids" comments, what the hell? I wish people minded their own business. Or the "NSFW headcanons" where people discuss idols and their kinks and some are genuinely convinced they're right, I'm sorry, but that's just not normal. First of all, why would they even think about it, second of all, the level of delusion is off the charts.
But on Twitter it's actually more acceptable to think everyone's gay than straight, lol, because you get called homophobic otherwise. And I say it as someone who is queer too.
@@s.k.t Yeah I agree. There are so many artists who are out as queer and make people feel represented, fans don’t need to start imagining stuff up about idols to satisfy themselves. It annoys me when fans accuse celebrities of queerbaiting, just because they assume certain personality traits or being “sassy” means you’re gay. These are harmful stereotypes. If they’re gay and they want to come out and it’s safe enough to do so, then they will! But they haven’t for a reason, so we should respect that and not slap any labels onto them.
I come from a very homophobic country like korea and i don’t know any openly gay people there, all my out lgbtq+ friends are living abroad. If you’ve ever tried to date as a queer person, you’ll soon find that twitter was lying to you and in fact the VAST majority of people are very straight! And these idols are most likely straight. It’s not homophobic to realise probability. Anyway whether it’s a gay or straight ship, it’s so rude to start speculating on who someone likes to sleep with. Yep the delulus need help!
Exactly. I agree with *EVERYTHING* like the shipping, fetishization, stereotypes, and fanfics.
If I could like a comment more than once I would🤧
just wanna share: not a movie but there was a kpop fanfic that turned into a very successful Thai BL series. btw loving all the topics of your podcasts
What's the name of the BL series?
What is it called??
Kpop just opened on Broadway too.
there are already a couple out there but at top is 2g3th3r: th3 s3ri3s (I don’t want to promote it so just look it up anyway 😅) which its author is an ex0 stan.
Love your podcasts.
thank you! 💕💕
As a boomer myself, I just feel so integrated in your conversation. I love the podcast, hope you keep it up
I actually agree with the first one tho. Anyone can see how toxic JK stans react when JK is with another girl, or how IU is hated everytime bcuz JK is her fan.
So if u dont wanna get so much backlash if u were caught dating, then don't market on those types of fans, do it like TXT were they literally friendzoned the whole fandom (it's still not good bcuz they're selling the "we're besties" idea to their fans when we're CLEARLY not friends with them at all, but it's better than bf)
About "forcing" your friends to like kpop, my advice would be to pay attention to the type of music they like and then show them kpop songs that have the same influences or genres. Kpop is so vast and they may not know how many hidden gems there are because they think kpop is just bubblegum pop, with fun and colorful concepts and catchy phrases that don't make sense.
I say this as someone who also used to have this stereotypical mindset about kpop music until I found some songs that fit my personal taste, and ended up going down the whole rabbit hole lol. Of course kpop isn't for everyone, so some people might not like it even if the song sounds like something they would normally listen to, but I think it's a good way to introduce kpop to people who aren't familiar with it.
Yes to whoever said perfect timing, I have to drive quite a long way to the grocery store to order one of my kids' birthday cake and I have grocery shopping to do so I have something to listen to now!
The thing about western interpretations on how idols show platonic affection is so true, and about the shipping it really does have to do with women and their fetishization of gay men like why else are they that obsessed with romantically shipping male idols lol, its so normalized
This Podcast wouldn't be complete without a few hot takes on why "2nd Gen Kpop was better", so I am very joyful to see an entire chapter of the video with that title.
I am a full on late 3rd and 4th Gen Kpop fan and I consider Angelina to be the only reliable source of those better, free times of live singing. Thank you for keeping 2nd Gen alive.
OMG wait I didn't know you had a podcast! I haven't been getting notifications I guess! Yay!
yes! and omg that's so sad 😭
Your podcast is such a breath of fresh air in the kpop fandom scene! I've watched every single one and their always so interesting, hilarious, and entertaining! Also drop the skincare routine sis
1) For the first one, thats what we call a parasocial realtionship, and alot of people fall into with both kpop idols, actors, streamer, and even characters (anime/otome games characters). That being said, I personally think they ARE the kpop villain in this case. From the cases they named, the backlash was absolutely horrible and no matter what their career is, no person should feel and be treated like that just because they want to get married and live a happy life with someone real. Like all these fans like to ship or create drama between idols but get mad when they get in actual relationships. It's fun to create fantasies and live in those as long as you dont feel possesive of someone being part of that fantasy. Sorry not sorry. What do you expect? For them to MARRY the FANDOM?? Again, fun to play into the fantasy and to daydream with the idols u stan, thats okay, but from that to say they deserve and are responsible of the backlash is just- No. It's part of their role, its part of their job. It is on you for taking that role seriously and EXPECTING smth in return of ur own feelings. TKV frfr.
2) I don’t think this person is TKV. I personally was never around during 2nd gen, i came in when it was abt to finish and 3rd Gen was starting. I see what they talk abt and i get it. More people means more toxic fans cause thats how it works. But it also means more recognition and appreciation and growth for the kpop groups and companies. I totally get what they mean and I lowkey agree. Lately, with anything really, not just kpop but yk, we're talking abt kpop xD I do think people overanalyse things, people over react, share a hella lot of misinformation and clips taken out of contexts etc. No one can even breath in the right manner and it is annoying that so many people seem to be toxic within the community. again, NOT the TKV. Personally i have little to o interaction with the fandoms of the groups i stan aside of reading comments and liking videos/comments i like.
3) uhm- listen ik the OP said they're logical but that doesnt meant they couldn’t have supported their friend? like- Just say its gonna be hard, so you'll have to take it seriously and work really really hard if you want that to come true. Or tell her that u are getting kinda tired of hearing abt it, instead of listing the reasons why you think its not gonna happen. Like bruh- idk the OP sounded really off. TKV
tired of typing, ill comment on the rest of the cases if y'all want idk xD
I believe in soulmates and platonic loves, and as a STAY, there had been many conversation from Stray Kids members how most of them just like & do skinship naturally and even clips behind the scene, where the camera is not focus on them, there are the members on the back still being as goofy and touchy to each other.
I'm okay with ship because the meaning of the word had become more broad as more international fans know kpop. I see "ship" as a word of 2 members that i love having interactions of each other, and no, it doesnt have to be sexual. What's not okay is forcing your beliefs of someone 'sexuality' and use "ship" as an excuse. Pretty sure the members won't be comfortable with that either.
So yeah, woosan? I believe they are very comfortable to each other and just like to do skinship. Also, as someone who is also touchy to a lot of my friends, i can see myself in them since i'm that close with my bestfriends.
The true Villains of Kpop are Drippin and Drippin only.
LOOOL!
can't wait for part 2
k-pop is really cringy sometimes, so yeah, it's not a good decision to show it to your friends or family. showing them some bands or reappears is safer, i guess
I was stressed from work, logged out and got this. Best time to start my rest days 😌
You guys are iconic 🎉
I think that it's okay to tell your friends about something that you like and somehow force them to like it. Everyone wants to talk with someone about their favorite things. If you aren't co-workers, after they'll lose interest in other your common interest, you can end your friendship cuz you'll not have other things to talk about. It's really important to have common interests
Late but I love your podcast, yall should live stream your podcast
The issue I have with the boyfriend service is its one thing if they're a rookie struggling to sell but other groups have made it clear they are not your boyfriend and they still do well. Plus these are young impressionable kids that use oppa as an escape. Im not surprised when they get backlash. Im not saying its right but the industry really needs to do better with parasocial relationships
But we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. How do we know management and PR isn’t telling them to do this and that? We shouldn’t assume: that makes a arse out of ourselves. Blaming them gets nothing solved.💖
@@anyone1111 once you get to a certain level you can tell management to fk off bc you already made your money and just fufilling a contract. and I blame the industry as you can see in my last sentence
Is that a french accent I hear? More precisely from Quebec? If it’s true I’m so glad to be supporting a kpop podcast from my province!!!
i am here to admit i found tiffany annoying cuz she was loud and more outgoing but i feel like looking back it was also a bit of my misogny speaking
2:10 OMG yesss that would be sooo fun!
i love these sm!!
The dogs are stars of this show, super cute.
I don't think the first one was a villain. Saying someone deserves it is different from wishing them the bad karma. It's just saying "they asked for it". Because I do agree at a certain extent. Idols could really just start being real for once and say that their fans are just their friends but still with limitations. They should start educating their own fans on their platforms. A lot of fans are still gonna support them and a lot of them will actually be hit with a bit of reality, especially the young ones. Them encouraging the delusional ones with their fantasies are gonna face the consequence of heavier backlash when they're gonna have relationships and they're gonna regret tolerating fans' bullshit.
Can someone find the video of seonghwa getting friend zoned I can’t find it 😭
i'll post it to my IG story!
@@moluccensis thank you!!
it's stupid how people want to become an idol, when they can become independent artists. why choosing the hardest way, already knowing truth about k-pop industry?😐
Je ne veut pas être creepy, mais je me demande vraiment d’où vous venez…😅 Genre dans quel coin du Québec… The boyfriend service shiuld not existe IMO, it’s doing nothing for me, like it’s not real!!! Aaahhhhhhhhhh!!!
Reminder to self. 29:54
I was waiting for thia
Coming in hot with some insider information as someone who reads ateez fanfics and is on nsfw twitter.
First off, a disclaimer 😅 i watched a big chunk of that section on mute but the subs were in full sentences, so I trust their accuracy.
Secondly: yes, its all part of the fantasy or experience or what you want to call it. I know it’s not real. I know that I do not, and will not ever know ateez personally behind the cameras.
Thirdly (and so on), on nsfw twitter at least, we basically operate on a ”what they don’t know can’t hurt them” coupled with a ”leave us the f alone” basis. We block the official accounts, yell at minors to stay the hell out of here and sensor the hell out of idols names and everything surrounding them, all to prevent our stuff from showing up in searches so if (when) idols look up their name, all they’ll see is praise, critisism, photos and vids from shows and stuff. Oh, and soft ranging to explicit thirst posts from sfw twitter. Very often those are posted straight into the comments or quote retweets of the official accounts 🙃
But that’s fine! A sfw woman answering a tweet asking about mingi’s position in ateez with ”in bed folding me over like a lawn chair” went semi-viral and everybody was laughing. But when a nsfw person points at woosan and says ”they kiss” or call seonghwa a milf or a trans person liking the thought of seonghwa being trans too, it’s disgusting and we should kill ourselves.
And yes, that has really happened. The queerphobia of the antis is truly a special brand. That particular witch hunt was started by a minor, no less.
To end it off, hopefully on s more positive note, I do agree with your verdict. Any person have a right to say ”I don’t want to hear about this” and the shipper must respect that and vice versa. But for gods sake, don’t say it like the example person did, because if the shipper does it right, the idols will *never* find it out in the first place. Be decent and don’t shame them for a fun thing.
To be honest I don't understand it. I can't say I respect it either, but as long as I don't have to see it... sadly once in a while I come across NSFW tweets (I even had shippers reply to my tweets and it was gross), so I just block those people. Still, shipping and NSFW things are an issue to me. And it applies to Y/N fantasies as well - I'm on tumblr and get bombarded with explicit content, it's just weird and unnecessary. They're real people after all... it feels invasive as hell. Just because idols won't see it doesn't mean it's not a problem. And shipping seems like a fetishization of mlm, because as far as I know most people who engage with sexual content aren't actually gay men...
Maybe it's because I'm aro-ace and hate the sexualization and romanticization of everything. I know shipping and fanfiction about real people won't go away (and kpop companies are definitely to blame as well), but I just can't wrap my head around it.
@@s.k.t I’m genuinely sorry on your behalf that you still come across it, but I also wanted to thank you for blocking and moving on. We prefer that option much more than witch hunts.
Funnily enough, as a fellow aro-ace I also find Y/N fiction weird and gross. It makes it ”too real” for me.
There’s been many interesting discussions of if shipping is fetishizing mlm and I’m hoping there’ll be more in the future. What I can say it that yes, there’s a huge lack of gay men in mlm spaces, especially in commercial spaces like printed mlm books and BL shows (for instance, one lead actor in a thai BL show turned out to be homophobic and I’m sure there’s many more both in front of and behind camera) but from my decade long experience of fandom and ao3 spaces, *many* of both creators and consumers have been all kinds of queer. And many from that queer group have also been under the trans umbrella. When it’s queer people writing queer stories their ”brand” on queerness isn’t the most important part to me, personally, and that goes for all fandoms I’ve ever been in.
@@pinkseonghwa Yeah, there's not much I can do about it. But I did ask writers on Tumblr and Twitter not to use my gifs for their stories, because it makes me uncomfortable and I had some not very nice experiences with those people.
I see, well for me it doesn't matter whether it's Y/N x idol or member x member, it's all the same for me. A lot of those stories are too realistic and based on actual events that happened, so I can't tolerate it. I like to view people as friends, not sexualise or romanticise every single interaction and quite frankly I'm tired of people doing it, not just in fandom spaces, but in life as well.
I understand queer people shipping or writing same sex stories seems a bit better than straight people doing it, and I generally agree, but it's still gives me the ick. Especially when fans assign genders and identities, I just think it's unfair and I would hate if someone did that to me. I also like to think there are aro and ace people among idols, but I would never headcanon them as such. And I know for many fans it's definitely not just a fantasy, they may say it is, but I met a few people who turned out to be delusional shippers behind the closet doors or they had all these conspiracy theories about idols and their preferences. I just don't see the appeal and reason behind such behaviour, queer people or not. Because real humans aren't fictional characters we can shape the way we want.
@@s.k.t I totally see where you’re coming from, and 2 years ago when I too avoided rpf, I would’ve agreed with you on some points. I still do, I too think some people take it too far, especially in spaces that’s not meant for it and people analyzing every single action is very ugh.
I’ve been mulling it over why I don’t mind rpf fiction and it basically mulls down to 1. I’ve always been a ship and let ship person. The X button exists for a reason.
2. My first ever ship and fandom was rpf. Makes it very interwoven with point 1. I was more delulu and generally quite obsessed with the band back then but could still tell reality apart from fiction (and if anyone’s curious, it was not 1D).
3. I see pretty much everything about an idol as a persona. A character. All we know is how they are on stage and in front of a camera. Not how they are alone in the dorms or at home with their families. In front of fans they are in Idol mode, playing a straight, cis, single and virgin character that don’t smoke and never swear. It’s those Idol characters that I ship basically. Put them in a fanfic (my preffered medium) and they’re even more a character who happens to share the idols face, name and some general traits. Similar to how Captain America happens to share Chris Evans’ face. They’re words on a screen. And yes, there are idol aus in fanfic, but there’s also coffee shop aus, space aus, vampire and zombie aus. Are we still thinking that an idol on stage and an idol killing zombies are interchangeable?
4. You find people making assumptions about you highly uncomfomfortable. I understand that and the reasons why. But I don’t get uncomfortable with it. And I’ve had people make assumptions. I’ve floored more than one coworker when they found out I’m ace and a virgin while also being almost 30. I found their reactions hilarious more than anything.
In the end, it’s all about boundaries isn’t it? Your boundaries for fiction stops at rpf (or before since you mentioned you didn’t like anything romantic or sexual?). I respect that. Mine stop at a later point and all I want is to be respected for that too. Then we can agree to disagree all what we want.
@@pinkseonghwa I hear this "idol persona" argument a lot and I agree to a certain extent, because yes, we don't know them, yes they often can't show their true selves, however it feels unfair to assume idols are always acting, especially nowadays when a lot of them are allowed to be more genuine. So to me it's different than actual actors portraying fictional characters. And it's interesting that a lot of people are okay with self-insert stories, but not member x member ships and vice versa. It's the same thing. I would argue that member x member stories seem more realistic, because everyone included is a real person.
Like I said, the least I can do is block people who share NSFW content, but it's tiring especially when I see it under my posts or tweets. People are too comfortable being inappropriate in public.
I would personally feel weirded out if random people wrote very kinky stories about me and my friends, assumed my gender and identity or even joked about it for their own benefit. And that actually happened to - people tried to put me in certain boxes. Apparently I'm also dating all my friends, lol.
So I can imagine some closeted queer idols may dislike it too. Some might not of course.
We clearly won't see eye to eye on this, because as you can tell I have strong opinions and they won't change, you have your own views as well and that's okay. I don't go out of my way to hate on shippers and writers unprovoked, but I do have my problems with the whole shipping and fanfiction culture and I won't pretend otherwise. And when people try to justify smut and shipping as something bigger, it's just doesn't sit right with me. I personally can't detach myself from reality to the point of forgetting these are real human beings, so yeah RPF is definitely not for me. And I'm wary of anyone who aggressively defends real people smut and shipping due to my bad experiences with lots of them.
And again, my identity also influences the way I feel.