For most orbits, them being free from a contract that digs them deeper in debt and a company that never treated them as they should've been is way way more important than a cb. The general sentiment is that we would much rather have them leave the company and not get exploited anymore even if it means never seeing Loona again
I’m a firm believer that fandoms can be the reason to unstan an group. I used to stan Bts heavily and then right after DNA was released there was like a issue with multistans and armys and I simply pointed out that it’s okay to like more than one group and still be part of a fandom. Like you can have bts as your ult but still stan other groups it’s not the end of the world and I ended up getting cyber bullied and harassed to the point I tried committing suicide. After that I couldn’t look at bts or even hear them or anything about them without remembering all the shit their fans put me through and I would end up sobbing. So I unstanned, muted everything related to them and actually have them blocked everywhere so yeah fandoms can be the reason for someone to unstan a group and it’s completely valid :)
But it is not the artists fault. You can still listen to their music, but their albums and stream their songs. You don’t really need to engage with the fandom. You can also easily just ignore the fandom if you don’t engage too much on social media. If you just follow the official accounts of the group and just like their posts you don’t have to deal much with the fandom then. It is really that easy. Me personally don’t really engage much with the groups I stan fandoms, but I support and follow the groups I stan.
@@vixxexo6855 whilst I agree it's not bts' fault, I think it's completely fair for someone to want to unstan a group because the fandom has bullied them to the point of their mental health getting really bad. It wouldn't be as easy for op to just listen to bts anymore cause they bring them bad memories now. Op literally wanted to die so why would they want anything to do with what brought them to that point? So yeah I do think it's entirely possible for someone to be turned off an artist, if the fandom is that bad.
@@vixxexo6855 Please stop with this nonsense. It's not the artists' fault. But the fans are associated with them. It's called trauma. If seeing or hearing bts triggers those memories, then you should cut them. Your mental health is more important than supporting your faves
Sorry for what happened to you. I generally do not "stan" or engaged with a fandom, so I can focus on engaging with the music and the artists. I can highly recommend it. Take care.
Orbit here. We know that if LOONA finally disbands we would not possibly have the 12 of them together in a group again, we would love if they were of course, but we prefer to protect their mental well-being and to help them free themselves from such an abusive contract they have/had with BBC. I mean, the fact that 9 out of 11 remaining members filed an injuction to suspend their contracts right after BBC expulsed and defamated Chuu tells us that they are tired to keep up with their sht. We won't stop until the remaining 7 members can terminate their contracts and we will support each of their 12 members in their own path and projects, even if they're not together in a single group.
I'm also a pretty new STAY, but from my perspective, it kind of seems like the SKZ boys ALSO don't really want Woojin mentioned. Recently Chan (during a live) was frustrated with an article that featured a very old picture from when Woojin was still in the group. He rolled his eyes and said something like "we are 8" IIRC. I think this influences the fandom quite a bit, and they don't want to keep opening up a wound.
Yeah I agree, because yes there are rumors and allegations but no one knows if they’re true or not. It’s really the fact that Bang Chan has made it pretty clear on multiple occasions that he wants to distance Stray Kids from Woojin. I don’t think that makes any of the rumors true necessarily, you don’t have to hate Woojin to be a Stray Kids fan, but there’s probably some bad feelings there that are best left alone by the public who know nothing about what went on behind the scenes.
@@quintessence_sailor I agree. Like I am curious to what happened especially to make bang Chan of all people not even want woojin mentioned or anything but still we don't know them so unless they want us to know we should leave it alone tbh
you're right. people just refuse to respect their decision of being referred to as 8 because most kpop stans never listen to the idols cause they don't see them as humans
As an almost 2 year old stay i can say that i agree, the group in itself doesn't want to open a wound from the past. Their insistence on being referred to as 8, them rerecording the songs and so on is an indication for that, but the fact that they won't and probably can't talk about it makes it easy to stir rumours. In Wonho's case the fans know what happened, but in Woojin's we don't, since JYP as usually is pretty scarce with explanations and both parties probably signed NDAs. Regardless, i wish for any new stans to enjoy the contents (previous and present) for themselves freely, and don't engage in rumours and twt fights determine what u think. You can like Woojin or you can like Stray Kids, and u can like both, BUT the fact remains that there will probably be no ot9 in the future. I know there are some older fans and some newer fans who hope for it, but i think it's more respectful to SKZ and to Woojin to leave whatever it was in the past. I feel like that's why most people don't want to mention woojin, cause the more we talk about this topic the more the two sides and opinions begin to clash once again, and that's exactly what we don't want. We want growth for both parties, let's leave the past in the past.
I am not sure about the “born skinny chick” part but I think that line was probably a response to the haters who body-shamed Lisa for being “too skinny”
i thought so too but I said another video not related to lisa but jennie said she don't want to be fat like a "pig" and jisoo said "no im skinny I like skinny"
As an very Old Stay I can tell you that i t began with Bang Chan’s ‘betrayal’ comments he made on a Vlive only months after Woojin left and it poisoned the well. While Chan didn’t name any names, disgruntled STAYS assumed he was referring to Woojin and it snowballed from there.
I really never comment but I wanted to let you know that there are reasonable kpop stans out there! I‘m almost 24 so I‘m over the drama and bullying someone online. If I don’t like a group or a person, I just don’t watch their content, period. I really think it’s just a lot of kids commenting awful stuff. If someone over the age of 20 does stuff like this, they clearly have some deeper issues 😬 Anyways loved the podcast as always ✨💕
I don't think I will ever unstan a group I really like because of the Fans, but If I am just a casual listener of a couple of songs and I really dislike the fandom I wont really go deep into the group or fandom
Just wanted to point out since the SA allegations for Woojin always seem to be the main talking point, the reason why many stays don't like him is because of the way he left, not the scandal. He left the group and the company literally right before a comeback and a tour. They had to delay the comeback and rerecord the songs, cut him out of an mv, and rework all of the choreo for the tour, with very little time to do all of that. The remaining members went through a really hard time with certain members now having to step and fill the main vocal position with basically no warning. You can see videos of them literally breaking down at their concert because they were so scared that people wouldn't support them anymore. The fact that WJ was even allowed to leave the company "for personal reasons" when they stood to lose so much money on that comeback makes people believe that he didn't leave just because he felt like it. Something had to have happened for JYP to be so willing to change everything last minute, but as you said, no one really knows the true story. So yes, the SA allegations were definitely a contributing factor, but I feel like it was the actual departure from the group that made everyone, including SKZ themselves, not want to associate him with the group anymore.
This and I'm pretty sure how he handled the allegations got people upset too 😕 like he basically promoted his upcoming solo stuff in the same response he made. That rubbed people the wrong way cause it was as if he wasn't taking the situation seriously
@@cherryfreckle He didn't promote anything. He came on Twitter to update his fans on how he was doing and what he was up to after the allegations came out. Which was that he had signed with a new agency and he was doing alright. Heck!! People didn't even believe that the company was real so what do they think he was promoting? It's unfortunate that people are spreading these false narratives around
@@asareirene exactly I'm fed up with hearing people say he used sa to promote his solo stuff when he literally did NONE of it like none and he was the victim in this whole situation idk why people don't see that?
imo the reason woojin is so taboo is because chan shaded him on vlive so stays feel woojin must have done something bad to the group that led to him leaving. also everyone was convinced of the SA rumors for quite a while, so even when they were disproven, he’s still a villain in the minds of a lot of fans. but i’m not really in the fandom so i could be wrong
no you're right. it's mostly because whatever he did, cause no way you're allowed to leave right before a comeback and tour where everything is set and a lot of money has been put into it, it got him dismissed very quickly before a very important time for skz, and the boys had a very hard time after that as a result. filling in a position that they thought was already filled, changing choreo, reshooting mvs...they were breaking down on stage during that tour because they thought people wouldn't support them anymore. this is mainly why stays dislike him, outside of what chan said, but even then what he said and their insistence of being referred to as an 8 members group and rerecording almost all the songs he was in speaks volumes
Audrey is right about how long Woojin was in SKZ. They debuted in January of 2018 and he left late 2019. Considering the survival show, he was in the group for two years and, more importantly, through five or six mini albums. He was very familiar in the fandom and he was a really popular member. While I can't deny that the NMIXX member leaving has not been jarring, these situations are wildly different if she was not even in the group for a year and only did two promotion cycles. The situation with Woojin is so weird, but I think the main reason why the fandom doesn't want to mention him anymore is because of rumors and that it feels like there's animosity between the group and him.
it's also because skz themselves do not want him associated with them anymore? coming on live even recently and getting annoyed some site used a pic with him in it, rerecording their entire discography so he's not on the tracks anymore...most stays are just respecting their decision, and most of the fandom came in after god's menu so for most of us he just doesn't matter and skz have always been 8
@@wywrd_mtntyeah..I join the skz fandom a few months before 5-star and I didn’t even know about woojin, and i was so confused because in pictures it was OT9, but then in videos he wasn’t there, but now I know that woojin left and stuff. So yeah OT8 4 lifeee 🤭🥰
I wasn't a Stay when Woojin was in the group but from my understanding a lot of Stays felt betrayed when he left SKZ because they strongly pushed this agenda that they were close and meant to be 9 and they all went through a difficult debut (with their survival show) only for Woojin to not only leave within 16 months, but also not give any reason, then debut as a soloist which made it seem like he was selfish / self-serving instead of being a part of the group like he was "supposed" to. The allegations about him came out later and weren't part of his departure and were proven to be false from everything I've seen. I don't really care about Woojin one way or another, I listened to his solo stuff and seems like it's more his style I guess! but damn I sometimes imagine what I would feel if I left a group right after they're getting started, only for them to become one of the biggest groups in the industry. Oof. No hate to Woojin tho, I'm just not a soloist kinda gal.
it was honestly painful for me when he left because i biased woojin for a while 😭😭 i was also quite mad at the way he just left and became an anti for a while. i eventually grew out of it and just became neutral
@@diced1ce ugh I'm sorry! I can imagine it would be even harder to deal with if you biased him. I completely understand idols' privacy and such, they get exploited enough as it is.... but also you can't fault people for wondering what happened that was so bad it broke them up. It just sucks all around. I'm glad he's able to fulfill his dreams as a soloist (if that's what he wanted?) and I'm glad SKZ was able to continue growing without him.
@@diced1ce I said another comment who said "imo the reason woojin is so taboo is because chan shaded him on vlive so stays feel woojin must have done something bad to the group that led to him leaving. also everyone was convinced of the SA rumors for quite a while, so even when they were disproven, he’s still a villain in the minds of a lot of fans. but i’m not really in the fandom so i could be wrong" and maybe thats why but anyways its his decision and idols can make their own decision
For Orbits, more than not wanting to support a company they hate, its that the more CB's Loona have, the more debt they will accumulate thanks to the way BBC organised the income split, so despite all their work and world tour, the members still haven't been paid and won't ever be paid if they stay under the same contract with BBC.
my ult group weki meki) is currently haven’t done anything for more than a year and they keep having big break between all comebacks and we can see they find it hard, it’s really heartbreaking to see… but as much as i dont want them to disband, it’s hard to be in that situation as fans
Toxic fans are often not fans of anyone. They don’t care about the groups or the music, they just study up enough so they can insert themselves into the fandoms of whoever’s popular in the moment and start drama with actual fans because that's where all the attention is. It’s why they’re usually only present in the biggest fandoms and why their accounts are almost always brand new, even when they claim to be part of a fandom for years. Using a group member’s name as part of their username isn’t an accident either; they do it on purpose so they can call that group’s fans toxic once they’ve deleted that account and started another. And they do this often because they’re always getting blocked, creating new accounts and going straight back to bullying, it’s like the attention is a drug for them. I see it all the time, people get relentlessly hounded over the most innocent comments. Like it’s just music, but for some of these “fans”, bullying people online is a lifestyle Side note: Anyone interested in MAVE? I like them so far
I respect your stance on the topic of unstanning a group because of its fandom, but i think I'm lucky to say that this was never a question for me because artists and their fandoms are so far from each other in my head (i suspect because i don't have a twitter and usually don't go out of my way to read comments, in fact i think i learn about troubles with fandoms via kpop commentary channels)
I agree that it’s valid for people to unstan bc of fandoms! What I don’t like is when the people who unstable do a full 180 and actively contribute hate to their ex-bias group
I definitely think you can unstan a group because of the fandom. Whilst I think the best thing is to separate the artist from the fans, I do think it can become difficult if you have bad experiences with the fandom. For example if people from a fandom have bullied you, it's completely normal to then associate these bad memories with the group itself as an extension. The best thing to do from the beginning is just to avoid the kpop side of social media where kpop stans are the most toxic. Twitter being one of those.
this episode is just SO good… and in general this podcast is a breath of fresh air for me, so cozy and make you reflect on some stuff that seemed insignificant at the same time
I still want to like bts and will continue to listen to their albums and hope they are good 😭. But their recent stuff is very mediocre and not different and interesting like their old music
@@Michelle-wu5qn That's what I mean I lost any hope with butter and the only song i like from last 2 years of group is literally "dis-ease" which was written by jhope. He always sounds great no matter what he does.He makes better music and in general such unique artist. I think their music is becoming bad bc they don't care ab it anymore. It's clear that company wants this kind of music - they just want money until contracts are still going
@@falling_for3171 None of the music they made after Map of the Soul: 7 was planned. They were supposed to enlist in the military after their world tour back in 2020. When the pandemic began I think they were just trying different things until they could tour again (which ultimately never happened). They weren't going to have a major release and really give their all on an album they couldn't promote and tour with, not to mention Suga couldn't promote during this time because of his shoulder surgery. I think BTS were in a very difficult place and I still think they care about the music. I'm really hoping in these next 2 years BTS grow artistically and personally and when they comeback in 2025 will be better than ever. I totally get if their recent music isn't your cup of tea but I hope you still listen to their older music if that's what you enjoyed.
@@crystalsnow1138 Don't get me wrong but I wish they will stay solo after 2025 and I think that's what will happen. They maybe will do a comeback with another song or two but after Lollapalooza nothing for me will be the same. I just can't watch him again sing or rap for 5 sec in the song with his potential.I just think jhope alone is way better than the group. That's my personal taste and you could disagree with me that's ok
I’m so sorry you had to experience such vile hate. What is wrong with people who would send such hate??? I’m a Reveluv and you’re right, we’re much calmer. We’ve watched and heard people ignore them and put them down, but we’re Reveluvs because of their huge talent. However the new fandom seems less restrained, I hope they remember what the group stands for. Respect.
Audrey!! I can't speak much on the Woojin situation since I was not a stay at the time yet, but I do know that there were indeed SA allegations that came out against him, but they were apparently debunked (I'm not too sure about that because his fans say they were but I've never seen where). But basically stays don't really like to talk about him because the members clearly started pushing the "8 is fate" agenda very soon after he left, going as far as re recording almost all of their old discography with just 8 members. If you want to listen to their older songs, SKZ2020 and SKZ2021 have almost all of the songs pre Levanter (1st comeback without him) re recorded with just the 8 members :)
Wow re-recording songs, it doesn’t help with the black sheep persona for Woojin! I didn’t know they did that! Is SKZ2020 and 2021 special albums you can find on Spotify?
@@audreyskarma Yeah, it was a whole thing at the time but to be honest, since I started stanning them after it was so much easier to listen to older songs this way. Now every time I hear one of the few they didn't re record and I hear his voice it sounds very out of place haha Both SKZ2020 and 2021 are indeed special albums they released at the end of each year as a gift to stays and you can find them on spotify :)
If you want to know how the rumours of SA were debunked, you can watch the video put out by the company on the matter and also watch the coverage on DKDKTV news on the matter so that you can understand the whole allegations and how they didn't stand true. Bcoz the whole incident happened for a while and a lot of allegations and accusations were made, watching these videos would give the whole picture. The SA situation was honestly disgusting bcoz the girls used sth like SA to get people hate an individual without any fault. But again i emphasize this is different from Skz and him tho.
the loona girlies have been very loud about wanting to leave bbc and orbits want to do everything to help them, especially with the debt situation, with every comeback there will be more debt for the members. rn each member is in about £150,000 debt each
I'm never not going to be a fan of any music artist based on negative fandom behavior. I'm here for the music and if I like it that's all I need. Music for me has always been personal, I'm not liking anyone's music to make friends. BTS music means a lot to me and has helped me over the past few years. Plus I just love their versatility sonically and lyrically, not to mention they are incredible performers. BTS reignited my love for music that I had lost for a few years before I discovered their music. I say I'm ARMY but I don't go overboard with it. I don't stream nonstop, I never really vote for them, I don't own a ton of merchandise but I still consider myself ARMY because I love their music and I like who the members are as people. I listen to their music and watch their content and for me that's enough to be a fan. I'm also a very loyal person so it would take a lot for me to ever stop listening to a music artist I like. Even if they release songs/albums that aren't my cup of tea I stick around. I want to be here for the whole journey not just the high points. I don't re-evaluate myself as a fan every time a new song or album is released. Even with BTS recent releases I still like them a lot even if I like their previous songs more. And any BTS fan will tell you, you shouldn't judge BTS music of over 300 songs based on 3 fully English songs that were released just to cheer up fans during such a difficult time in the world. Something that helps me is I stay off of twitter. I'm a grown woman, I don't have the time nor the energy to deal with all that pettiness and hatred when real problems are happening in the world. I know not everyone likes BTS music and that's okay (granted they've actually given it a try). As long as people are respectful is what matters most. Anyways I can't wait to see what they all do with their solo music and I'm highly anticipating their comeback in 2025 which I hope will be huge. My dream since 2019 is to see BTS live and I was supposed to see them in 2020 but of course the pandemic happened. But I have to have keep the faith that I will see them in concert one day. Thanks for this discussion.
I’m a big reveluv and even though she doesn’t like red velvet I think we understand and still love her content. Red Velvet’s music just CANT be for everyone because they switch it up all the time We just appreciate it 😌
as an orbit my opinion is that yes, them disbanding would be the best situation because they're just sitting ducks accumulating more and more debt with each activity bbc makes them do. they have shown that they all have each others' back so even if they can't be altogether now, i'm sure they'll be able to come up with something in the future. at the end of the day, their freedom from that hellhole is more important than a group cb lol also they didn't lose the lawsuit yet, some members lost the injunction but the final verdict isn't out yet.
I truly stick to idea that a fandom shouldn't be the reason why one should unstan a group.That brings out a feeling that the fans are more important than the artist. Being in a negative community is bad for one, especially their mental health, I believe that too but every fandom got a 'good part' also. Unless one decide to overlook them and focus on the behaviour of the negative, being in a fandom will be exhausting. Then again your well being matters more than being a fan, always prioritise that. I just don't like the idea of people generalising and blaming it on the 'whole' fandom. Also hating the artist and making it their responsibility to keep their fans in line (that's so impractical and idk why y'all even bring that statement) I'm an ex-army and the fandom made me uncomfortable multiple times but the sweet ones accompanied me all the time. But now I am no longer an army and it's solely because I no longer enjoy bts' new music. Whatever i say, at the end of the day, it's your life. Make decisions however you like. Just as how I said don't let a fandom change your interest, don't let my opinion change you. You do what you want to.
Yeah totally. And you can always stop engaging with other fans and just like a group on your own. A lot of people be looking for a community more than just looking to enjoy performance art. I don’t relate.
Can I ask something? For ex-ARMY who don't like BTS most recent music do you still listen to their older music and enjoy it? Or you just don't listen to them at all anymore? Because I know for me I don't have to like every single song or comeback but I'm also not going to stop being a fan because of that. If I once really enjoyed your music I'm sticking around in hopes that better music will come. I say this because it's not like BTS never perform their older music which you obviously liked at some point in the past. One can still be a fan of BTS and just not listen to the music they don't like from them. But I completely agree a fandom should not be the reason why anyone "unstans" any music artist.
@@crystalsnow1138 I still listen to them. Their old music is still in my everyday playlists. They were a big part of my life and helped me a lot to live. I just can't simply cut ties easily and I don't want to. I changed, my taste in music changed just as how bts changed and their artistry in music. It's important to grow and explore more in music for them as artists. I respect them for their works. Being an army, it was nice while it lasted :)
Can yall cover idols and dating ??? With the recent hate yunjin and yeonjun have been getting, kpo stans need a wake up call lololol Loved this episode ! Big supporter ❤
The whole Wonho thing was an older ex female friend who decided that she was jealous that her life was going nowhere and he was on the rise with his group, they were about to release their English album and the Korean album FOLLOW: FIND YOU and they were really on a lot of peoples radar in Korea and abroad, so one night when she saw them on TV she took a picture of the tv with him on it and made a shady remark about when is he going to pay her back, apparently he got in contact with her immediately through his lawyer to resolve any issues, which she shared about online angrily. Next thing you know, she started doing live streams shading him and fighting with Monbebe, she then sat down with Dispatch with this whole board about how she was going to take him and some of the members down (it was blurred, but it became obvious very fast what she was doing) and that's when further lies and accusations of drugs etc came out, and because it was published with Dispatch, there was this huge uproar with Knetz and antis, and because she wasn't getting the results she wanted, she and Han Seo Hee released claims about Shownu alongside a 'revenge p0rn' image that wasn't even him... and so Wonho wrote a letter to Monbebe and left the group to protect the members as they had literally just started a new comeback. The members continued to promote, but they were clearly devastated and in some of the first stages, you can see that they hadn't been sleeping well, and had been crying. Shownu lost so much weight from stress, but even though he was also being attacked mercilessly, he stood strong in the face of it all to support the members. Jooheon even had to take months of for his mental health not long after all of this too. It was an absolute nightmare and Korean and international Monbebe fought tirelessly for months, trending support hashtags 27/7 in 12 hour shifts etc, trying to get things cleared, to support him and the group publicly and demanding his reinstatement. We didn't even know if he was safe and being supported, we knew nothing. And low and behold, after like 5/6 months? it's all proven to be false after a police investigation and he's re signed under Starship's subsidiary Highline. But for some reason they don't allow him and the members to publicly interact. and Dispatch have clearly had to make amends, because they now also support Wonho's solo career a lot... so I often wonder what kind of settlement he got from them for helping to ruin his career.... But people still go around calling him a criminal and sl*t shaming him, even though he is such a sweet and loving person. (Ps: The accusers were both caught out doing drugs... so....) I know it can come off as silly when Kpop stans buy billboards etc, but it was all in support of an innocent man, and we needed him to see we were still there, and for people to pay attention to what can happen when people are allowed to judge someone for being guilty with no evidence and how it can destroy not only a career. but a life. If anyone really knew anything about Wonho, instead of who they like to make him out to be, they would understand why so many people wanted to support him in this intense way. We weren't only fighting for him, we were fighting with the industry that Idols are humans too and shouldn't be held to unrealistic standards. Clearly there are things that are very serious and should remain so, but the way they are bullied and critisised over the minutest thing is ridiculous and bad for their mental health.
@@CalliopeSkies514 I was just confused and wondering because I remember the part where they spoke about it and laughing it off. So I was surprised that you took it that way
@@asareirene Where have I attacked anyone or taken it negatively? You've literally read way too far into my reply and are taking it as offensive on behalf of someone else. I'm literally just letting her know. It's just a response, like an adult human conversation. Would it make you more comfortable if I remove that part?
I used to be the biggest moomoo, i think the members are so real, i love most of their music and so at the time i thought they were perfect, but one by one i found out about so many racism scandals and the absalute dog piling on the people who stanned them bc of it which made it unconforrable to say i stanned. People would say stuff like no self respecting black women would stan mamamoo and that suckedd. Personally, I accepted their apology, i still love their music and i think some of the other scandals after the bruno mars cosplay one were reaches but since then I've just been really cautious with them. I like them but at a distance Also yall should speak in french more im trying to learn but je comprendes peu
i quickly unstanned Enhypen and will never call myself one of their fans due to the fact i am BLACK and half their fans bombarded weverse posting photos of dead black people. it’s very easy for someone to unstan cuz of the fandom and YOU ARE the problem if you cannot see that
Me with black pink too... I unstan them because of blinks And for what I understanding with skz it all started from BangChan... I think compared to all the group leaders who lost their members in JYP I think only BangChan shows disappointment to the members who "abandoned" their group
Only time I had trouble with fans is when I joined a twice discord and I found out it was mostly just young fans who were into Fortnite and shit lol, best rendition of "money by the way
I think The group that the person asked the question about 'upstanding cause of a scandle" could maybe be IKON and the did debut in 2015....but BI left in 2019 not 2020. But Bobby also had a scandal which could have been in 2020...I think
most stays don't like woojin because he basically abandoned them (it's clear he got into some trouble cause no employer will let you leave during a project i need everyone to understand that) and skz had a very hard time after that since they were very unprepared for sth like this happening. combined with their attitude towards this whole issue (that one chan live with him talking about a "betrayal", them rerecording their entire discography so he isn't in it, chan on live very recently getting annoyed when some article used an ot9 photo etc) stays are angry about what skz had to go through because he left and they're also respecting what skz want which is to not be associated with him in any way. his allegations came months after he left skz and they were proven false so this really isn't the reason stays don't like him
Blinks basically made me "unstan" BP. I was very vigorously told only Blinks are allowed to listen to BP, stream the songs, watch their MVs, nobody else. So I never ever streamed or watched the group again. Shame. The group deserves better but those fans were so toxic. I'm aware it's always just a loud minority in every fandom that is rabid, but that is sometimes already enough.
You do you. If you like Blackpink's music nothing should stop you from listening to it. Just don't interact with the fandom. I listen to Blackpink's music casually and whenever I see a toxic blink I just roll my eyes and move on, they aren't worth the time nor the energy.
@BlueJay Sarang stanning is an extreme word. they can love the girls and enjoy the music without calling themselves a blink. thats how i am with bts, the fandom just makes me so uncomfortable but i love the boys. would never call myself an army tho, just a fan
who told you that? cause i've never in my life heard/saw that (not even on twitter) and more importantly why do you listen to a random person on the internet. I stan groups but i've never bought anything - not even albums from them (for a lot of different reasons) and i also don't stream every single piece of content they put out. I know people might not agree with this and tell me i'm not a "real stan" but honestly idgaf. If i want to call myself a stan of a group i will regardless of what a random on the internet says.
I feel like I'd rather see a group I love disband than continue to be treated like crap. And as far as continuing as a group after leaving a company, crowd funding is hugely successful in the music industry. A friends band did crowdfunding to record an album and ended up getting like twice what they asked for. They were able to record and go on tour.
skimming the comments i see that other people have already told you about woojin's SA allegations and i would like to add that the way he handled it was very iffy too. when he went solo he did a "documentary" that was basically just 40 minutes of memes ridiculing the allegations, it very much rubbed me and many others the wrong way. also i want to emphasize that a big reason why people don't want woojin associated with skz anymore is because skz themselves work SO hard not to be associated with him. right after he left (or chan pretty much strongly implied that he was kicked out) skz made a point of saying "stray kids is 8". and then they rerecorded literally their entire discography to erase him completely from their music (so audrey can still listen to their old music! just add the versions of the older songs from skz2020 and skz2021 to your playlist, woojin is not in them!). recently some publication used an old picture of skz with woojin in it and chan got upset and said "come on, skz is 8, please use a new photo". so yeah, the fact that skz themselves seem to feel intense dislike for him and don't want anything to do with him makes us feel like whatever happened was very bad.
Earlier I thought fandoms meant sharing mv music goals or just making edits of artists. But on Twitter when I started going through everything, it was more about bullying other artists with the name of their favs. Blinks saying Jin should d!e while in the military, armys making fun about kai's enlistment, and with Moonbin's death they still kept going on about it. The things I've read there sometimes gave me chills and I didn't want to turn like one of them, so I just stopped interacting with them or just ignore those posts now. There is nothing wrong with Stanning multiple groups, it's your life, your choice, don't fall for these toxic people telling you otherwise. You are Stanning the artist, their music, just enjoy that.
I only became a Stay (and a kpop stan) in January 2022, so I could have this wrong but because Woojin is already a soloist and he asked to not be associated with Skz, Stays and Cubs (Woojins fandom) took this very seriously. Skz even re-recorded multiple albums without Woojin on them, and they replaced him with other members. They (3RACHA, consisting of 3 members from Skz) even changed one of their lyrics in their debut song; at first it was "Started with nine, at the end it'll all be ours" (or something along those lines), but they changed that *nine* to an *eight* , erasing that image of "Skz is NINE". It was quite clear that Skz didn't want to have Woojin taint their past, regardless if he was innocent or not (which he was proved to be innocent). Whether you like it or not, me and hundreds of people associate Woojin with Skz, but not Skz with Woojin. Stays now have 8 people to focus on. Skz is obviously more successful than Woojin, so he kinda fell behind. I would hate to call him a "flop", and say that his music didn't make any noise when he left Skz, but it's the truth. If there was any noise, it was the few hundred fans of Woojin, or Stays checking out what an ex-member released. Their musical direction is extremely different as well. Woojin is writing love song ballads and Skz is writing phonk, rock, metal, trap etc music about how far they've come, and their passion for writing music and performing. It's clear to see that they're veeery different. I know it's not that deep, and writing a paragraph about won't do anything to this world, but I just had a few thoughts on it, and they just happen to be very long :D Edit: Just checked Woojins channel, he hasnt uploaded in a month. His recent MV didn't do very well. It's been over a month and it hasn't broken 96k views, confirming my theory that he just isn't relevant anymore. Cubs, DONT HURT ME
So if you don't vibe with the music of a group, who cares about the fandom? Are ppl out here stanning groups with music as a secondary reason? Like I don't know why the conversation continues after realizing you don't vibe with the music. Am I the weird one here?
Blinks are actually less toxic now ,you know why ? It's because they already figured out that the hate isn't coming from other fandoms but fron antis who pretend to be from other Fandoms
I mean, I like a few of Enhypen's songs, but I "unstan" them cuz they don't know how to think things through before they speak. And second, the fandoms that make me "unstan" Enhypen cuz of the way they fabricate problems or info, then play the victim when they are shown to be false, are so 🤮And every year they have a scandal, and I'm so tired of defendin them, even though Enhypen is wrong.
the only group i Stan is IOI and im happy to be their fan and the group has only 9 months its feels like a gift. arfter that i dont have any group that i like to stan. cause the standard they put to me is unreplacesable
For me it was blackpink, i was fairly new to kpop and i was shocked when i started interacting with blinks AND army because these two are a package deal, so i stopped stanning bp at some point and never even tried to stan bts And up until this point i like stanning groups which are not from the big 4
Vip/atiny here. Your podcast is a cool thing and i mostly agree with your opinions, but even if i don't - i can see your pov and usually dont see point to argue. But I want honestly have a bit of a conversation about Seungri. This scandal was a huge mediaplay honestly, and SR just was caught in the middle cuz he was an acquaintance to the real perpetraitors. Who was proven guilty, but they only had probation for assault and drugs. While SR had a full on jail time only cuz judge wouldn't succumb to the truth and wouldn't even agree to submit the evidences, they wanted him jaild and pressured SR into admiting the guilt. So... Idk. Maybe the truth will come out soon when his jail time would end.... I really hope so.
You should listen to the versions of old songs that Stray Kids re-recorded in SKZ2020 and SKZ2021 if you want to hear them with only the current 8 members! I think they did most of them across both compilations though not quite all
Regarding the Lucas matter, him apologising seemed like a safer option for the company... And it feels like sm almost never treats their Chinese artist under them right... WayV despite being a popular unit don't get proper group cb which is kinda weird seeing how it's technically a part of nct but doesn't get half the amount of promotions, albums as the should be getting ... I've liked nct for a while now, but the decisions regarding them by the company sometimes have been questionable... And a signed artist is under a company's contract, it's an employer- employee relation, as sad as it sounds , big companies make big artist by marketing them strategically . And an artists personal life should be , well, personal, no one should be in such power to control it, the companies and their contracts does it enough... Idk what tangent i went on here but the Lucas thing is getting tiring as there is still no clarity, and everyone acts as if he doesn't exist which is again weird. But whatever i guess...
racism towards chinese was always bad not just in kpop etc I was cursed at and laugh at when I was there for exchange the racisim.....there is alot of racism towards chinese
orbit here watching this video today, the members that got out of bbc went to modhaus (aka jaden jeong's company, the creator of loona) and a teaser of odd eye circle's (loona unit made of the member that won their lawsuits) comeback with the sentence "we rise together, back to the moon and beyond" and jaden jeong expressed his goal to reunite loona in an interview. so orbits are fully expecting that loona will be coming back together under that company when the whole bbc situation is over
Regarding the intro: i'd say yeah that rewording would make a huge difference. Onces (especially ones that have been there from jump) are *very* defensive over these types of things bc the girls get everything about them undermined and misrepresented to an extreme degree. I did watch those videos so i know you weren't trying to say there's not talented or anything like that but we have to deal with people saying they also 100% lipsynch at their concerts so you can imagine how a huge channel saying something ambiguous can set some people off. That being said i'm in the same boat as Audrey regarding liveshows (i'm over them tbh) but years ago they did genuinely sing live quite a bit on livestages too, which might add to the uproar you faced 😭 I'll also add that there has been a huge influx of Onces (for the absolute worse imo) and a majority of the ones that were already here have had to deal with *way too much* and are just pissed tf off atp so... yeah On the actual topic: I've been in both situations where i stay clear from a group bc of the fandom, and where i just drop a group bc the fandom just makes interacting with their stuff absolutely insufferable. And just like Audrey one of those groups is BTS. I did like some of their stuff but i genuinely cannot stand the attitude surrounding them, the couple of songs that hit weren't worth sticking around and the group itself just doesn't do it for me like.. i wouldn't know how to put it without pissing people off but they're just not all that i'm afraid. One other thing that plays a part for me is when the members of a group themselves *never ever* address the way their fans behave towards other artists/other fans - or towards the group itself (in BLACKPINK's case for instance). Like i understand there are probably contractual reasons or that kind of stuff but still I guess long story short: the two *biggest* instances are Armys (and BTS) stopping me from getting deeper into the group and Blinks fully making me drop BP for a multitude of reasons. I stay clear of almost every 4th gen groups bc most of their stans are pandemic stans and i won't get into why but that plays a huge part in how they interact even with the groups themselves - so there's that, the members' ages and the way they seem to be handled (the types of images that are curated, the narratives that are being pushed etc.)
I guess I don’t interact with enough kpop fans? I listen to the music, watch mv’s, and some extra content for certain groups. But I haven’t really had any conflicts with people? I definitely see actual crazy people responding to others though. Or some “unpopular opinions” videos being super psycho and hurtful. So, I can see why if you were to actually interact with one of these people, you might not want to engage in the fandom anymore!
I was an Exo-L and Army right in the middle of the Fan War of 2016 and both sides were just at each others throats and you couldn't stan both groups at the same time and I was just on the receiving end of so many negative Army comments that I had to walk away. I completely agree that the fandom made me start to associate the hate from the fans to feeling hate from BTS themselves. So glad I found a small group near me that are BTS stans but also love other groups and in 2019 I started to really enjoy them again.
When I say i'm a FEARNOT and TOKKI i don't associate myself with anyone, I am a fan and if they're toxic it's a shame on them. Also I think a lot about how le sserafim and newjeans would actually hate them if they knew how they act and they'd love me so that feels a lot better!
I think if u unstan a boy because of fandom u r to mentally not that strong to ignore things and focus on good . I don't let outer things affected things I like
Let me tell you why I as a Stay do not talk about Woojin and why he rubbed me the wrong way. 1) He was very unprofessional leaving before Levanter and the 1st photobook was released forcing everyone to have to scramble to record , change cherography, redo and edit photos. He could have had the decency to finish the comeback first. 2) I felt like he didn't like being in SKZ and perfer being solo since he literally announced his solo debut shortly after leaving. SO HE CLEARLY DIDNT HAVE A MEDICAL REASON TO LEAVE SO WHY DIDNT HE FINISH THE COMEBACK???? And Chan's live where he talks about Woojin basically not doing his part annoys me. I know Chan can spill all the tea but I find it rude the way he left them hanging like that. 3) The fact that skz re-recorded their discography and released it a month after Levanter...just wow! I dunno the reason behind it but it just makes you question Woojin even more. 4) the fact that he left with no explanation rubs me the wrong way 5) the group actually is better without him so there's no need to even bring him up. He's no Wonho . That's for sure. 6) that terrible documentary he released before his debut was so insensitive in my opinion. It literally put the nail in the coffin for me ever liking him.
31:43 from what i have Wojiin was accused of sa and bullying the members and when Chan talked about it he said "don't believe what you see on camera" so... That's all i know. I became a stay after he left so i don't know if it's true but Chan on his live said that skz are ot8 and we should know that.
Now that you say it. It makes me sad when K-pop stans buy expensive stuff for their faves, put on billboards for their birthdays. And with that amount of money, they can donate to people in need. Help paying someone else’s tuition or buy a house. Even Britney Spears talked about how no one gave her anything when she was poor, but after she became famous, she got a lot of free stuff. I am not saying it’s bad that you want to do a project for your fave, it’s just something I was wondering for a while 🙇🏻♀️
Not Today and Blood Sweat & Tears are also the only songs I liked from BTS, what a coincidence! I try to see what the fandom is like before I get deep into a group. I won't interact with a toxic fandom, which means I'm less likely to see their group's content and have less of a chance to know members or stan the group wholeheartedly. You hit the nail on the head when you said you associate members' faces with the behavior of stans who use them as profile pics, because even if we know they're different people, we're still being conditioned to associate a face with our emotional responses.
Also, is it even a thing to unstan a group because of the fandom when you really enjoy their music? Like how does it go for a person who's not Audrey and who in fact quite likes the product the group makes? Do you restraint yourself to not listen to the music that brings you joy because the fandom it's nice? (In which case no one wins and you are the one who loses). Or listening to the music of the group and being in a fandom are completely different things? I feel like there is so much to say ahaha
Regarding the loona situation, i don't think this is about the group losing members or not having more content, the members clearly don't wanna be part of Loona anymore (hence the lawsuits against BBC) and after Chuu was kicked out, some members felt very bad, and on top of that, BBC announces a comeback they didn't even prepare for and did quick photoshoots and a quick teaser that was obviously rushed. The members also keep posting on fab (i think?) That they will keep fighting and they hope we orbits support them no matter what happens, so i personally feel this is a sign of "we are trying our hardest to win the case, so no matter what the outcome is, we hope you keep supporting us" (this is mostly a personal feeling tho).
Orbits are okay with loona disbanding. We understand that the girls’ well being is more important than anything else. We know the chances of them (12) debuting together are zero to none. We just want their freedom from that company.
blinks can be soo intense sometimes on the disbanding thing like for a screentime or a rap or a line they l make tags wanting thier bias to leave and thats the problem with bp fans they rae so convnced that the members will do so good solo or without yg when nothing is garantied ... yg is a hyge promoter even with brand deals they dont even know what the contracts with these deals are or who are the participens... they trust the fame of the girls to just keep going like that if they go solo because they are so famous but they are falmous like that as blackppink and pepole invest money in them as a group or as a solo because theya re from bp .. my point is even bp and bts who are like the most over the top famous of allgroups are not safe there is nothing that guaranteethat they will make music have deals or have that level of fame when they disband...
honestly, a group i unstanned is bts. dont get me wrong, im a fan. i like their music and the boys, ive loved them for a long time. but i just cant call myself an army anymore, and thats due to the fandom. i know every fandom has their bad apples but the amount of toxic armies is extreme. "thats because bts are popular and have more fans" which is true, to an extent. but i just see more toxic armies than nice ones these days and it just makes me upset. i support bts, but im not an army anymore
The reason why army and blink have more toxic fans because simply they are the 2 biggest fandom in kpop now ,and I want to correct something the army actually are more older than most 3rd generation groups fans but at the same time they have more younger fans
If you weren't there for the group then what? Can't you just really like the music and don't really care that much about the idols??? You can love someone music without loving the people who just sing and dance to it Why do you have to gatekeep everything This behaviour just makes people stay away from certain fandoms and groups You are just reinforcing that gurl
i think a lot of ppl misunderstand "staning". Personally I don't think you are a "stan" if you just casually like the group(s) or just like a few songs of that group(s). The issue most armys have with multi-stan are that they would say they (multi-stans) are armys then to throw BTS under the bus for their other group(s) that they stan. Granted that they (armys) do generalize all multi-stan. There will always be toxic fans with in any fandom. The bigger the fandom is, the more toxic fans they have base on how huge the fandom is. I think being a stan means you support the group genuinely by voting, buying and/or streaming. You don't have to do all that if you have priorities in your life but if you don't even enjoy the majority of the group's music and/or their activities then I don't know if that is staning that group. Audrey sounds more like a casual fan at most. I don't understand how you can stan a group without knowing the names of all the members in the group? Note: staning is not for everyone. If you surround yourself with toxic stans then you will eventually would get harassed one way or another.
Hi another orbit here. I can see that you have not fully aware of the situation and leaning more via the comments here. I wanted to say that one of the boycotts terms was to give the members the choice to terminate their contracts with Blockberry. The lawsuit filing news was broken by JTBC 3 days after Chuu's expulsion news and less than 24h hours where the rest of the members had to fulfilled a video fan meet for their Japanese Single promotions (all the members were clearly distraught and breaking down in-front of fans). Funny thing Blockberry release a statement gaslighting the whole Chuu situation after dealing with the backlash and outcry against them and full support declarations from multiple people for Chuu's character and how Blockberry claimed that the members had to suffer due to her behaviour in their statement. JTBC broke the termination lawsuit news within 30 minutes of that ridiculous statement. The agency lied to both JTBC and Newsen stating that the news was "groundless". This was the RED FLAG most of the Orbits fandom was looking for to know the report was true. They have been using that term of all of 2022 in regards to every news of Chuu's lawsuit. All the members who took part in the injuction stayed silent till the 13th of January when their primary verdit was reported on. These were members who daily interacted with fans within Fab communcation app. Hence that clause was part of the boycott pledged as we knew it members wanted to escape the company. The agency actively silents fans in the group's fan cafe with them deleting their posts and issuing bans ranging from a day to whole month. The fandom have dealt with 6 years for the agency mistreating the members and the fandom with their gaslighting and constants lies. The Chuu false defamation and knowing the members wanted out was the driving force of the boycott. This boycott was already silently happening after their world tour but took into force after all the above came out in public play. What drove the comeback sales boycott even harder was that fact member Hyunjin (who has not filed for an injunction) replied to one or two fans (via Fab app) on the date the comeback was announced that she also wished like the fan she could leave the agency. This was leaked onto Twitter and during the course of the boycott few fans were keeping her updated on the situation and she liked their responses. Fans where pissed to learn this comeback was under planned, rushed, force member Choerry who was on health hiatus back for this comeback and made the members film for over 4 days outside when the weather was negative degrees during the coldest period in December in Seoul. The fans saying they join Chuu's company are naive but every fandom have naive fans. I do like to comment on the keeping the group together situation. The fandom and the group members always seen the group as full 12 members. The members personally kept on highlighting this fact even after Chuu's explusion. The members who filed their lawsuits wanted to leave together (this what was actually reported by SK Media). The members are all united and supportive of each other. However with the latest verdict it made thing more difficult for them to all stay together. Even I have mentioned above, most of the fandom who are boycotting looking out for the member's health more than anything else. Most have accepted the fact that all the members might not reunite especially with the injunction verdict. For them to get out of the agency is more important than the group staying together. The members who lost their primary hearing to suspend their contracts (termination case is on going) all have broken down especially the youngest member Yeojin (who was 14 when signing her contract) had a mental breakdown the night before her 6th year anniversary for debuting with fans over on the Fab app. Latest news is the fandom is working on a legal petition to hand over to the Law Firm who are representing Loona Members in their lawsuit. It's the choice of the members of Loona who want to leave the agency and that's what most of the fandom respects and want too.
I don't want to lump all ARMY into all one bad patch but a good majority of them are toxic whether it involves the boys, other fans, or other artist. It's like if you think differently from them you get burned at the stake and it's ridiculous at this point. I just don't get how these same bullies stan the AMBASSADORS of an anti-bullying campaign.
It may seem like the majority of ARMY, but it's not. It's just the negative always gets more attention so it seems that way. Most ARMY I encounter are really respectful. Also not every BTS fan is interacting with other fans or on social media. So even if most ARMY on social media are toxic in some way there are millions of fans who aren't toxic but are just keeping their distance from the toxicity on social media and support the boys from afar.
Wonho left because han seohee or whatever her name is that was making all the allegations about idols up years ago made one of wonho up. He didn't actually do any of that. He was found innocent and that is why monbebe fought for him so much even to this day. But for some reason knetizens still don't want wonho to even talk about MX or anything. Smh. He had his career ruined for nothing
For most orbits, them being free from a contract that digs them deeper in debt and a company that never treated them as they should've been is way way more important than a cb. The general sentiment is that we would much rather have them leave the company and not get exploited anymore even if it means never seeing Loona again
I’m a firm believer that fandoms can be the reason to unstan an group. I used to stan Bts heavily and then right after DNA was released there was like a issue with multistans and armys and I simply pointed out that it’s okay to like more than one group and still be part of a fandom. Like you can have bts as your ult but still stan other groups it’s not the end of the world and I ended up getting cyber bullied and harassed to the point I tried committing suicide. After that I couldn’t look at bts or even hear them or anything about them without remembering all the shit their fans put me through and I would end up sobbing. So I unstanned, muted everything related to them and actually have them blocked everywhere so yeah fandoms can be the reason for someone to unstan a group and it’s completely valid :)
But it is not the artists fault. You can still listen to their music, but their albums and stream their songs. You don’t really need to engage with the fandom. You can also easily just ignore the fandom if you don’t engage too much on social media. If you just follow the official accounts of the group and just like their posts you don’t have to deal much with the fandom then. It is really that easy. Me personally don’t really engage much with the groups I stan fandoms, but I support and follow the groups I stan.
So sorry for what happened to you, no one deserves to be bullied ever. I really hope you found your inner peace back 💕
@@vixxexo6855 whilst I agree it's not bts' fault, I think it's completely fair for someone to want to unstan a group because the fandom has bullied them to the point of their mental health getting really bad. It wouldn't be as easy for op to just listen to bts anymore cause they bring them bad memories now. Op literally wanted to die so why would they want anything to do with what brought them to that point? So yeah I do think it's entirely possible for someone to be turned off an artist, if the fandom is that bad.
@@vixxexo6855 Please stop with this nonsense. It's not the artists' fault. But the fans are associated with them. It's called trauma. If seeing or hearing bts triggers those memories, then you should cut them. Your mental health is more important than supporting your faves
Sorry for what happened to you. I generally do not "stan" or engaged with a fandom, so I can focus on engaging with the music and the artists. I can highly recommend it. Take care.
It's literally okay to not like bts or other group as long as you're being respectful
Orbit here. We know that if LOONA finally disbands we would not possibly have the 12 of them together in a group again, we would love if they were of course, but we prefer to protect their mental well-being and to help them free themselves from such an abusive contract they have/had with BBC. I mean, the fact that 9 out of 11 remaining members filed an injuction to suspend their contracts right after BBC expulsed and defamated Chuu tells us that they are tired to keep up with their sht.
We won't stop until the remaining 7 members can terminate their contracts and we will support each of their 12 members in their own path and projects, even if they're not together in a single group.
I'm also a pretty new STAY, but from my perspective, it kind of seems like the SKZ boys ALSO don't really want Woojin mentioned. Recently Chan (during a live) was frustrated with an article that featured a very old picture from when Woojin was still in the group. He rolled his eyes and said something like "we are 8" IIRC. I think this influences the fandom quite a bit, and they don't want to keep opening up a wound.
Yeah I agree, because yes there are rumors and allegations but no one knows if they’re true or not. It’s really the fact that Bang Chan has made it pretty clear on multiple occasions that he wants to distance Stray Kids from Woojin. I don’t think that makes any of the rumors true necessarily, you don’t have to hate Woojin to be a Stray Kids fan, but there’s probably some bad feelings there that are best left alone by the public who know nothing about what went on behind the scenes.
@@quintessence_sailor I agree. Like I am curious to what happened especially to make bang Chan of all people not even want woojin mentioned or anything but still we don't know them so unless they want us to know we should leave it alone tbh
you're right. people just refuse to respect their decision of being referred to as 8 because most kpop stans never listen to the idols cause they don't see them as humans
As an almost 2 year old stay i can say that i agree, the group in itself doesn't want to open a wound from the past. Their insistence on being referred to as 8, them rerecording the songs and so on is an indication for that, but the fact that they won't and probably can't talk about it makes it easy to stir rumours. In Wonho's case the fans know what happened, but in Woojin's we don't, since JYP as usually is pretty scarce with explanations and both parties probably signed NDAs. Regardless, i wish for any new stans to enjoy the contents (previous and present) for themselves freely, and don't engage in rumours and twt fights determine what u think. You can like Woojin or you can like Stray Kids, and u can like both, BUT the fact remains that there will probably be no ot9 in the future. I know there are some older fans and some newer fans who hope for it, but i think it's more respectful to SKZ and to Woojin to leave whatever it was in the past. I feel like that's why most people don't want to mention woojin, cause the more we talk about this topic the more the two sides and opinions begin to clash once again, and that's exactly what we don't want. We want growth for both parties, let's leave the past in the past.
If u’re a new stay, I hope u aware of the fact how racist skz are n problematic
I am not sure about the “born skinny chick” part but I think that line was probably a response to the haters who body-shamed Lisa for being “too skinny”
i thought so too but I said another video not related to lisa but jennie said she don't want to be fat like a "pig" and jisoo said "no im skinny I like skinny"
@@Dashomin liar
@@Dashominthen why would lisa sing that part? Like wtf? Make it make sense?
the fact that toxic fans can ruin a group you enjoy is actually so messed up. this should not happen.
As an very Old Stay I can tell you that i t began with Bang Chan’s ‘betrayal’ comments he made on a Vlive only months after Woojin left and it poisoned the well. While Chan didn’t name any names, disgruntled STAYS assumed he was referring to Woojin and it snowballed from there.
I really never comment but I wanted to let you know that there are reasonable kpop stans out there! I‘m almost 24 so I‘m over the drama and bullying someone online. If I don’t like a group or a person, I just don’t watch their content, period. I really think it’s just a lot of kids commenting awful stuff. If someone over the age of 20 does stuff like this, they clearly have some deeper issues 😬
Anyways loved the podcast as always ✨💕
I don't think I will ever unstan a group I really like because of the Fans, but If I am just a casual listener of a couple of songs and I really dislike the fandom I wont really go deep into the group or fandom
Just wanted to point out since the SA allegations for Woojin always seem to be the main talking point, the reason why many stays don't like him is because of the way he left, not the scandal. He left the group and the company literally right before a comeback and a tour. They had to delay the comeback and rerecord the songs, cut him out of an mv, and rework all of the choreo for the tour, with very little time to do all of that. The remaining members went through a really hard time with certain members now having to step and fill the main vocal position with basically no warning. You can see videos of them literally breaking down at their concert because they were so scared that people wouldn't support them anymore. The fact that WJ was even allowed to leave the company "for personal reasons" when they stood to lose so much money on that comeback makes people believe that he didn't leave just because he felt like it. Something had to have happened for JYP to be so willing to change everything last minute, but as you said, no one really knows the true story.
So yes, the SA allegations were definitely a contributing factor, but I feel like it was the actual departure from the group that made everyone, including SKZ themselves, not want to associate him with the group anymore.
I didn't like him.because annoying
This and I'm pretty sure how he handled the allegations got people upset too 😕 like he basically promoted his upcoming solo stuff in the same response he made. That rubbed people the wrong way cause it was as if he wasn't taking the situation seriously
And also because the allegations came out long after he left the group
@@cherryfreckle He didn't promote anything. He came on Twitter to update his fans on how he was doing and what he was up to after the allegations came out. Which was that he had signed with a new agency and he was doing alright. Heck!! People didn't even believe that the company was real so what do they think he was promoting? It's unfortunate that people are spreading these false narratives around
@@asareirene exactly I'm fed up with hearing people say he used sa to promote his solo stuff when he literally did NONE of it like none and he was the victim in this whole situation idk why people don't see that?
imo the reason woojin is so taboo is because chan shaded him on vlive so stays feel woojin must have done something bad to the group that led to him leaving. also everyone was convinced of the SA rumors for quite a while, so even when they were disproven, he’s still a villain in the minds of a lot of fans. but i’m not really in the fandom so i could be wrong
no you're right. it's mostly because whatever he did, cause no way you're allowed to leave right before a comeback and tour where everything is set and a lot of money has been put into it, it got him dismissed very quickly before a very important time for skz, and the boys had a very hard time after that as a result. filling in a position that they thought was already filled, changing choreo, reshooting mvs...they were breaking down on stage during that tour because they thought people wouldn't support them anymore. this is mainly why stays dislike him, outside of what chan said, but even then what he said and their insistence of being referred to as an 8 members group and rerecording almost all the songs he was in speaks volumes
Audrey is right about how long Woojin was in SKZ. They debuted in January of 2018 and he left late 2019. Considering the survival show, he was in the group for two years and, more importantly, through five or six mini albums. He was very familiar in the fandom and he was a really popular member. While I can't deny that the NMIXX member leaving has not been jarring, these situations are wildly different if she was not even in the group for a year and only did two promotion cycles.
The situation with Woojin is so weird, but I think the main reason why the fandom doesn't want to mention him anymore is because of rumors and that it feels like there's animosity between the group and him.
it's also because skz themselves do not want him associated with them anymore? coming on live even recently and getting annoyed some site used a pic with him in it, rerecording their entire discography so he's not on the tracks anymore...most stays are just respecting their decision, and most of the fandom came in after god's menu so for most of us he just doesn't matter and skz have always been 8
@@wywrd_mtntyeah..I join the skz fandom a few months before 5-star and I didn’t even know about woojin, and i was so confused because in pictures it was OT9, but then in videos he wasn’t there, but now I know that woojin left and stuff. So yeah OT8 4 lifeee 🤭🥰
I wasn't a Stay when Woojin was in the group but from my understanding a lot of Stays felt betrayed when he left SKZ because they strongly pushed this agenda that they were close and meant to be 9 and they all went through a difficult debut (with their survival show) only for Woojin to not only leave within 16 months, but also not give any reason, then debut as a soloist which made it seem like he was selfish / self-serving instead of being a part of the group like he was "supposed" to.
The allegations about him came out later and weren't part of his departure and were proven to be false from everything I've seen.
I don't really care about Woojin one way or another, I listened to his solo stuff and seems like it's more his style I guess! but damn I sometimes imagine what I would feel if I left a group right after they're getting started, only for them to become one of the biggest groups in the industry. Oof.
No hate to Woojin tho, I'm just not a soloist kinda gal.
it was honestly painful for me when he left because i biased woojin for a while 😭😭 i was also quite mad at the way he just left and became an anti for a while. i eventually grew out of it and just became neutral
@@diced1ce ugh I'm sorry! I can imagine it would be even harder to deal with if you biased him. I completely understand idols' privacy and such, they get exploited enough as it is.... but also you can't fault people for wondering what happened that was so bad it broke them up. It just sucks all around. I'm glad he's able to fulfill his dreams as a soloist (if that's what he wanted?) and I'm glad SKZ was able to continue growing without him.
@@diced1ce I said another comment who said "imo the reason woojin is so taboo is because chan shaded him on vlive so stays feel woojin must have done something bad to the group that led to him leaving. also everyone was convinced of the SA rumors for quite a while, so even when they were disproven, he’s still a villain in the minds of a lot of fans. but i’m not really in the fandom so i could be wrong" and maybe thats why but anyways its his decision and idols can make their own decision
Your podcast is so amazing, you're speaking out what alot of K-Pop-Stans think. Keep up the amazing work please
For Orbits, more than not wanting to support a company they hate, its that the more CB's Loona have, the more debt they will accumulate thanks to the way BBC organised the income split, so despite all their work and world tour, the members still haven't been paid and won't ever be paid if they stay under the same contract with BBC.
my ult group weki meki) is currently haven’t done anything for more than a year and they keep having big break between all comebacks and we can see they find it hard, it’s really heartbreaking to see… but as much as i dont want them to disband, it’s hard to be in that situation as fans
Toxic fans are often not fans of anyone. They don’t care about the groups or the music, they just study up enough so they can insert themselves into the fandoms of whoever’s popular in the moment and start drama with actual fans because that's where all the attention is. It’s why they’re usually only present in the biggest fandoms and why their accounts are almost always brand new, even when they claim to be part of a fandom for years. Using a group member’s name as part of their username isn’t an accident either; they do it on purpose so they can call that group’s fans toxic once they’ve deleted that account and started another. And they do this often because they’re always getting blocked, creating new accounts and going straight back to bullying, it’s like the attention is a drug for them. I see it all the time, people get relentlessly hounded over the most innocent comments. Like it’s just music, but for some of these “fans”, bullying people online is a lifestyle
Side note: Anyone interested in MAVE? I like them so far
I respect your stance on the topic of unstanning a group because of its fandom, but i think I'm lucky to say that this was never a question for me because artists and their fandoms are so far from each other in my head (i suspect because i don't have a twitter and usually don't go out of my way to read comments, in fact i think i learn about troubles with fandoms via kpop commentary channels)
I agree that it’s valid for people to unstan bc of fandoms! What I don’t like is when the people who unstable do a full 180 and actively contribute hate to their ex-bias group
I definitely think you can unstan a group because of the fandom. Whilst I think the best thing is to separate the artist from the fans, I do think it can become difficult if you have bad experiences with the fandom. For example if people from a fandom have bullied you, it's completely normal to then associate these bad memories with the group itself as an extension. The best thing to do from the beginning is just to avoid the kpop side of social media where kpop stans are the most toxic. Twitter being one of those.
Kpop twitter is the worst. I just enjoy the music I like and surround myself with people who feel the same way. I don't need or want the drama.
@@crystalsnow1138 omg exactly! I feel like I lose braincells everytime I'm on there 😅
this episode is just SO good… and in general this podcast is a breath of fresh air for me, so cozy and make you reflect on some stuff that seemed insignificant at the same time
My situation is like this - I unstanned bts and become jhope stan lol. Personally I don't care ab fandoms but the music should be good
I still want to like bts and will continue to listen to their albums and hope they are good 😭. But their recent stuff is very mediocre and not different and interesting like their old music
@@Michelle-wu5qn That's what I mean I lost any hope with butter and the only song i like from last 2 years of group is literally "dis-ease" which was written by jhope. He always sounds great no matter what he does.He makes better music and in general such unique artist. I think their music is becoming bad bc they don't care ab it anymore. It's clear that company wants this kind of music - they just want money until contracts are still going
I'm confused... did you hear about jhope committing cultural appropriation as well?
@@falling_for3171 None of the music they made after Map of the Soul: 7 was planned. They were supposed to enlist in the military after their world tour back in 2020. When the pandemic began I think they were just trying different things until they could tour again (which ultimately never happened). They weren't going to have a major release and really give their all on an album they couldn't promote and tour with, not to mention Suga couldn't promote during this time because of his shoulder surgery. I think BTS were in a very difficult place and I still think they care about the music. I'm really hoping in these next 2 years BTS grow artistically and personally and when they comeback in 2025 will be better than ever. I totally get if their recent music isn't your cup of tea but I hope you still listen to their older music if that's what you enjoyed.
@@crystalsnow1138 Don't get me wrong but I wish they will stay solo after 2025 and I think that's what will happen. They maybe will do a comeback with another song or two but after Lollapalooza nothing for me will be the same. I just can't watch him again sing or rap for 5 sec in the song with his potential.I just think jhope alone is way better than the group. That's my personal taste and you could disagree with me that's ok
It's not about Loona staying together though, the girls being free is more important than us getting more OT12 content.
I’m so sorry you had to experience such vile hate. What is wrong with people who would send such hate??? I’m a Reveluv and you’re right, we’re much calmer. We’ve watched and heard people ignore them and put them down, but we’re Reveluvs because of their huge talent. However the new fandom seems less restrained, I hope they remember what the group stands for. Respect.
Audrey!! I can't speak much on the Woojin situation since I was not a stay at the time yet, but I do know that there were indeed SA allegations that came out against him, but they were apparently debunked (I'm not too sure about that because his fans say they were but I've never seen where). But basically stays don't really like to talk about him because the members clearly started pushing the "8 is fate" agenda very soon after he left, going as far as re recording almost all of their old discography with just 8 members.
If you want to listen to their older songs, SKZ2020 and SKZ2021 have almost all of the songs pre Levanter (1st comeback without him) re recorded with just the 8 members :)
Wow re-recording songs, it doesn’t help with the black sheep persona for Woojin! I didn’t know they did that!
Is SKZ2020 and 2021 special albums you can find on Spotify?
@@audreyskarma Yeah, it was a whole thing at the time but to be honest, since I started stanning them after it was so much easier to listen to older songs this way. Now every time I hear one of the few they didn't re record and I hear his voice it sounds very out of place haha
Both SKZ2020 and 2021 are indeed special albums they released at the end of each year as a gift to stays and you can find them on spotify :)
Hahaha we are in the same boat! Thank you I’ll give them a listen
If you want to know how the rumours of SA were debunked, you can watch the video put out by the company on the matter and also watch the coverage on DKDKTV news on the matter so that you can understand the whole allegations and how they didn't stand true. Bcoz the whole incident happened for a while and a lot of allegations and accusations were made, watching these videos would give the whole picture. The SA situation was honestly disgusting bcoz the girls used sth like SA to get people hate an individual without any fault. But again i emphasize this is different from Skz and him tho.
He didn't use the allegations to promote anything.
the loona girlies have been very loud about wanting to leave bbc and orbits want to do everything to help them, especially with the debt situation, with every comeback there will be more debt for the members. rn each member is in about £150,000 debt each
I'm never not going to be a fan of any music artist based on negative fandom behavior. I'm here for the music and if I like it that's all I need. Music for me has always been personal, I'm not liking anyone's music to make friends. BTS music means a lot to me and has helped me over the past few years. Plus I just love their versatility sonically and lyrically, not to mention they are incredible performers. BTS reignited my love for music that I had lost for a few years before I discovered their music. I say I'm ARMY but I don't go overboard with it. I don't stream nonstop, I never really vote for them, I don't own a ton of merchandise but I still consider myself ARMY because I love their music and I like who the members are as people. I listen to their music and watch their content and for me that's enough to be a fan. I'm also a very loyal person so it would take a lot for me to ever stop listening to a music artist I like. Even if they release songs/albums that aren't my cup of tea I stick around. I want to be here for the whole journey not just the high points. I don't re-evaluate myself as a fan every time a new song or album is released. Even with BTS recent releases I still like them a lot even if I like their previous songs more. And any BTS fan will tell you, you shouldn't judge BTS music of over 300 songs based on 3 fully English songs that were released just to cheer up fans during such a difficult time in the world. Something that helps me is I stay off of twitter. I'm a grown woman, I don't have the time nor the energy to deal with all that pettiness and hatred when real problems are happening in the world. I know not everyone likes BTS music and that's okay (granted they've actually given it a try). As long as people are respectful is what matters most. Anyways I can't wait to see what they all do with their solo music and I'm highly anticipating their comeback in 2025 which I hope will be huge. My dream since 2019 is to see BTS live and I was supposed to see them in 2020 but of course the pandemic happened. But I have to have keep the faith that I will see them in concert one day. Thanks for this discussion.
I really hope you’ll have the chance to see them live one day! It’s truly something magical to see your favourite artist live 💕
@@audreyskarma Thanks for the kind words.
I just want to say their lyrics is just so beautiful
Love that fellow reveluvs support you
I’m a big reveluv and even though she doesn’t like red velvet I think we understand and still love her content. Red Velvet’s music just CANT be for everyone because they switch it up all the time
We just appreciate it 😌
24:00
IT'S RED VELVET
Active in 2015
Irene's scandal in 2020
as an orbit my opinion is that yes, them disbanding would be the best situation because they're just sitting ducks accumulating more and more debt with each activity bbc makes them do.
they have shown that they all have each others' back so even if they can't be altogether now, i'm sure they'll be able to come up with something in the future.
at the end of the day, their freedom from that hellhole is more important than a group cb lol
also they didn't lose the lawsuit yet, some members lost the injunction but the final verdict isn't out yet.
Listen to SKZ 2020 and SKZ 2021 - They rerecorded a few of their old songs so that Woojin's voice isn't in the song.
I truly stick to idea that a fandom shouldn't be the reason why one should unstan a group.That brings out a feeling that the fans are more important than the artist.
Being in a negative community is bad for one, especially their mental health, I believe that too but every fandom got a 'good part' also. Unless one decide to overlook them and focus on the behaviour of the negative, being in a fandom will be exhausting. Then again your well being matters more than being a fan, always prioritise that.
I just don't like the idea of people generalising and blaming it on the 'whole' fandom. Also hating the artist and making it their responsibility to keep their fans in line (that's so impractical and idk why y'all even bring that statement)
I'm an ex-army and the fandom made me uncomfortable multiple times but the sweet ones accompanied me all the time. But now I am no longer an army and it's solely because I no longer enjoy bts' new music.
Whatever i say, at the end of the day, it's your life. Make decisions however you like. Just as how I said don't let a fandom change your interest, don't let my opinion change you. You do what you want to.
Yeah totally. And you can always stop engaging with other fans and just like a group on your own. A lot of people be looking for a community more than just looking to enjoy performance art. I don’t relate.
Can I ask something? For ex-ARMY who don't like BTS most recent music do you still listen to their older music and enjoy it? Or you just don't listen to them at all anymore? Because I know for me I don't have to like every single song or comeback but I'm also not going to stop being a fan because of that. If I once really enjoyed your music I'm sticking around in hopes that better music will come. I say this because it's not like BTS never perform their older music which you obviously liked at some point in the past. One can still be a fan of BTS and just not listen to the music they don't like from them. But I completely agree a fandom should not be the reason why anyone "unstans" any music artist.
@@crystalsnow1138 I still listen to them. Their old music is still in my everyday playlists. They were a big part of my life and helped me a lot to live. I just can't simply cut ties easily and I don't want to.
I changed, my taste in music changed just as how bts changed and their artistry in music. It's important to grow and explore more in music for them as artists. I respect them for their works.
Being an army, it was nice while it lasted :)
Can yall cover idols and dating ??? With the recent hate yunjin and yeonjun have been getting, kpo stans need a wake up call lololol
Loved this episode ! Big supporter ❤
i’ll add that to our list! thank you for the suggestion 💕😭
Yunjin and Yeonjun?
@@asareirene yes
@@kourtneykardashian5027 What for? Are they dating or something?
@@asareirene alleged dating rumours with no proof
Audrey's hoodie is iconic, it's legendary and it is the moment. Where can I get one?
Thanks! It’s a Zombie Makeout Club, bought it in a hot topic 😊
The whole Wonho thing was an older ex female friend who decided that she was jealous that her life was going nowhere and he was on the rise with his group, they were about to release their English album and the Korean album FOLLOW: FIND YOU and they were really on a lot of peoples radar in Korea and abroad, so one night when she saw them on TV she took a picture of the tv with him on it and made a shady remark about when is he going to pay her back, apparently he got in contact with her immediately through his lawyer to resolve any issues, which she shared about online angrily. Next thing you know, she started doing live streams shading him and fighting with Monbebe, she then sat down with Dispatch with this whole board about how she was going to take him and some of the members down (it was blurred, but it became obvious very fast what she was doing) and that's when further lies and accusations of drugs etc came out, and because it was published with Dispatch, there was this huge uproar with Knetz and antis, and because she wasn't getting the results she wanted, she and Han Seo Hee released claims about Shownu alongside a 'revenge p0rn' image that wasn't even him... and so Wonho wrote a letter to Monbebe and left the group to protect the members as they had literally just started a new comeback. The members continued to promote, but they were clearly devastated and in some of the first stages, you can see that they hadn't been sleeping well, and had been crying. Shownu lost so much weight from stress, but even though he was also being attacked mercilessly, he stood strong in the face of it all to support the members. Jooheon even had to take months of for his mental health not long after all of this too. It was an absolute nightmare and Korean and international Monbebe fought tirelessly for months, trending support hashtags 27/7 in 12 hour shifts etc, trying to get things cleared, to support him and the group publicly and demanding his reinstatement. We didn't even know if he was safe and being supported, we knew nothing. And low and behold, after like 5/6 months? it's all proven to be false after a police investigation and he's re signed under Starship's subsidiary Highline. But for some reason they don't allow him and the members to publicly interact. and Dispatch have clearly had to make amends, because they now also support Wonho's solo career a lot... so I often wonder what kind of settlement he got from them for helping to ruin his career.... But people still go around calling him a criminal and sl*t shaming him, even though he is such a sweet and loving person. (Ps: The accusers were both caught out doing drugs... so....) I know it can come off as silly when Kpop stans buy billboards etc, but it was all in support of an innocent man, and we needed him to see we were still there, and for people to pay attention to what can happen when people are allowed to judge someone for being guilty with no evidence and how it can destroy not only a career. but a life. If anyone really knew anything about Wonho, instead of who they like to make him out to be, they would understand why so many people wanted to support him in this intense way. We weren't only fighting for him, we were fighting with the industry that Idols are humans too and shouldn't be held to unrealistic standards. Clearly there are things that are very serious and should remain so, but the way they are bullied and critisised over the minutest thing is ridiculous and bad for their mental health.
Who is the last part of your comment addressed too?
@@CalliopeSkies514 Wow. She was clearly joking and it's not that deep.
@@asareirene 😂😂😂😂
@@CalliopeSkies514 I was just confused and wondering because I remember the part where they spoke about it and laughing it off. So I was surprised that you took it that way
@@asareirene Where have I attacked anyone or taken it negatively? You've literally read way too far into my reply and are taking it as offensive on behalf of someone else. I'm literally just letting her know. It's just a response, like an adult human conversation. Would it make you more comfortable if I remove that part?
I used to be the biggest moomoo, i think the members are so real, i love most of their music and so at the time i thought they were perfect, but one by one i found out about so many racism scandals and the absalute dog piling on the people who stanned them bc of it which made it unconforrable to say i stanned.
People would say stuff like no self respecting black women would stan mamamoo and that suckedd. Personally, I accepted their apology, i still love their music and i think some of the other scandals after the bruno mars cosplay one were reaches but since then I've just been really cautious with them. I like them but at a distance
Also yall should speak in french more im trying to learn but je comprendes peu
Not my ult kpop bias on the thumbnail which says "groups I'm unstanning" 💀
And then starting off with TTT chorus as I type 👀
😂😂😂😂
i quickly unstanned Enhypen and will never call myself one of their fans due to the fact i am BLACK and half their fans bombarded weverse posting photos of dead black people. it’s very easy for someone to unstan cuz of the fandom and YOU ARE the problem if you cannot see that
Me with black pink too... I unstan them because of blinks
And for what I understanding with skz it all started from BangChan... I think compared to all the group leaders who lost their members in JYP I think only BangChan shows disappointment to the members who "abandoned" their group
Btw it has been so long where is kevin jy bark comeback
he's stuck in bye-g's dungeon :(
@@moluccensis 😢😢😢
First. Literally gasped when the notification popped up
Only time I had trouble with fans is when I joined a twice discord and I found out it was mostly just young fans who were into Fortnite and shit lol, best rendition of "money by the way
I think The group that the person asked the question about 'upstanding cause of a scandle" could maybe be IKON and the did debut in 2015....but BI left in 2019 not 2020. But Bobby also had a scandal which could have been in 2020...I think
most stays don't like woojin because he basically abandoned them (it's clear he got into some trouble cause no employer will let you leave during a project i need everyone to understand that) and skz had a very hard time after that since they were very unprepared for sth like this happening. combined with their attitude towards this whole issue (that one chan live with him talking about a "betrayal", them rerecording their entire discography so he isn't in it, chan on live very recently getting annoyed when some article used an ot9 photo etc) stays are angry about what skz had to go through because he left and they're also respecting what skz want which is to not be associated with him in any way. his allegations came months after he left skz and they were proven false so this really isn't the reason stays don't like him
Blinks basically made me "unstan" BP. I was very vigorously told only Blinks are allowed to listen to BP, stream the songs, watch their MVs, nobody else. So I never ever streamed or watched the group again. Shame. The group deserves better but those fans were so toxic. I'm aware it's always just a loud minority in every fandom that is rabid, but that is sometimes already enough.
if u really wanted to stan them, nothing wd have mattered tbh...
You do you. If you like Blackpink's music nothing should stop you from listening to it. Just don't interact with the fandom. I listen to Blackpink's music casually and whenever I see a toxic blink I just roll my eyes and move on, they aren't worth the time nor the energy.
Listen to the music you want, that music never had hashtag "for blinks" on it. Those kid are in a trans. They need to touch some grass
@BlueJay Sarang stanning is an extreme word. they can love the girls and enjoy the music without calling themselves a blink. thats how i am with bts, the fandom just makes me so uncomfortable but i love the boys. would never call myself an army tho, just a fan
who told you that? cause i've never in my life heard/saw that (not even on twitter) and more importantly why do you listen to a random person on the internet. I stan groups but i've never bought anything - not even albums from them (for a lot of different reasons) and i also don't stream every single piece of content they put out. I know people might not agree with this and tell me i'm not a "real stan" but honestly idgaf. If i want to call myself a stan of a group i will regardless of what a random on the internet says.
I feel like I'd rather see a group I love disband than continue to be treated like crap. And as far as continuing as a group after leaving a company, crowd funding is hugely successful in the music industry. A friends band did crowdfunding to record an album and ended up getting like twice what they asked for. They were able to record and go on tour.
skimming the comments i see that other people have already told you about woojin's SA allegations and i would like to add that the way he handled it was very iffy too. when he went solo he did a "documentary" that was basically just 40 minutes of memes ridiculing the allegations, it very much rubbed me and many others the wrong way. also i want to emphasize that a big reason why people don't want woojin associated with skz anymore is because skz themselves work SO hard not to be associated with him. right after he left (or chan pretty much strongly implied that he was kicked out) skz made a point of saying "stray kids is 8". and then they rerecorded literally their entire discography to erase him completely from their music (so audrey can still listen to their old music! just add the versions of the older songs from skz2020 and skz2021 to your playlist, woojin is not in them!). recently some publication used an old picture of skz with woojin in it and chan got upset and said "come on, skz is 8, please use a new photo". so yeah, the fact that skz themselves seem to feel intense dislike for him and don't want anything to do with him makes us feel like whatever happened was very bad.
Yes, finally a new episode. Ready to get cancelled in 2023 as well?
Earlier I thought fandoms meant sharing mv music goals or just making edits of artists. But on Twitter when I started going through everything, it was more about bullying other artists with the name of their favs. Blinks saying Jin should d!e while in the military, armys making fun about kai's enlistment, and with Moonbin's death they still kept going on about it. The things I've read there sometimes gave me chills and I didn't want to turn like one of them, so I just stopped interacting with them or just ignore those posts now. There is nothing wrong with Stanning multiple groups, it's your life, your choice, don't fall for these toxic people telling you otherwise. You are Stanning the artist, their music, just enjoy that.
I only became a Stay (and a kpop stan) in January 2022, so I could have this wrong but because Woojin is already a soloist and he asked to not be associated with Skz, Stays and Cubs (Woojins fandom) took this very seriously. Skz even re-recorded multiple albums without Woojin on them, and they replaced him with other members. They (3RACHA, consisting of 3 members from Skz) even changed one of their lyrics in their debut song; at first it was "Started with nine, at the end it'll all be ours" (or something along those lines), but they changed that *nine* to an *eight* , erasing that image of "Skz is NINE". It was quite clear that Skz didn't want to have Woojin taint their past, regardless if he was innocent or not (which he was proved to be innocent). Whether you like it or not, me and hundreds of people associate Woojin with Skz, but not Skz with Woojin. Stays now have 8 people to focus on. Skz is obviously more successful than Woojin, so he kinda fell behind. I would hate to call him a "flop", and say that his music didn't make any noise when he left Skz, but it's the truth. If there was any noise, it was the few hundred fans of Woojin, or Stays checking out what an ex-member released. Their musical direction is extremely different as well. Woojin is writing love song ballads and Skz is writing phonk, rock, metal, trap etc music about how far they've come, and their passion for writing music and performing. It's clear to see that they're veeery different. I know it's not that deep, and writing a paragraph about won't do anything to this world, but I just had a few thoughts on it, and they just happen to be very long :D
Edit: Just checked Woojins channel, he hasnt uploaded in a month. His recent MV didn't do very well. It's been over a month and it hasn't broken 96k views, confirming my theory that he just isn't relevant anymore. Cubs, DONT HURT ME
So if you don't vibe with the music of a group, who cares about the fandom? Are ppl out here stanning groups with music as a secondary reason? Like I don't know why the conversation continues after realizing you don't vibe with the music. Am I the weird one here?
Blinks are actually less toxic now ,you know why ? It's because they already figured out that the hate isn't coming from other fandoms but fron antis who pretend to be from other Fandoms
I mean, I like a few of Enhypen's songs, but I "unstan" them cuz they don't know how to think things through before they speak. And second, the fandoms that make me "unstan" Enhypen cuz of the way they fabricate problems or info, then play the victim when they are shown to be false, are so 🤮And every year they have a scandal, and I'm so tired of defendin them, even though Enhypen is wrong.
the only group i Stan is IOI and im happy to be their fan and the group has only 9 months its feels like a gift. arfter that i dont have any group that i like to stan. cause the standard they put to me is unreplacesable
For me it was blackpink, i was fairly new to kpop and i was shocked when i started interacting with blinks AND army because these two are a package deal, so i stopped stanning bp at some point and never even tried to stan bts
And up until this point i like stanning groups which are not from the big 4
i think the scandal they were referencing might’ve been the red velvet irene scandal? since that was in 2020
oh maybe!
I second this.
Vip/atiny here. Your podcast is a cool thing and i mostly agree with your opinions, but even if i don't - i can see your pov and usually dont see point to argue. But I want honestly have a bit of a conversation about Seungri. This scandal was a huge mediaplay honestly, and SR just was caught in the middle cuz he was an acquaintance to the real perpetraitors. Who was proven guilty, but they only had probation for assault and drugs. While SR had a full on jail time only cuz judge wouldn't succumb to the truth and wouldn't even agree to submit the evidences, they wanted him jaild and pressured SR into admiting the guilt. So... Idk. Maybe the truth will come out soon when his jail time would end.... I really hope so.
24:44 remember when tzuyu had to apologise for holding a Taiwanese flag? Yeah
You should listen to the versions of old songs that Stray Kids re-recorded in SKZ2020 and SKZ2021 if you want to hear them with only the current 8 members! I think they did most of them across both compilations though not quite all
haha its true, as a BIG reveluv it really doesnt bother me that you dont like rv at all I still really enjoy your content
Regarding the Lucas matter, him apologising seemed like a safer option for the company... And it feels like sm almost never treats their Chinese artist under them right... WayV despite being a popular unit don't get proper group cb which is kinda weird seeing how it's technically a part of nct but doesn't get half the amount of promotions, albums as the should be getting ... I've liked nct for a while now, but the decisions regarding them by the company sometimes have been questionable... And a signed artist is under a company's contract, it's an employer- employee relation, as sad as it sounds , big companies make big artist by marketing them strategically . And an artists personal life should be , well, personal, no one should be in such power to control it, the companies and their contracts does it enough... Idk what tangent i went on here but the Lucas thing is getting tiring as there is still no clarity, and everyone acts as if he doesn't exist which is again weird. But whatever i guess...
racism towards chinese was always bad not just in kpop etc I was cursed at and laugh at when I was there for exchange the racisim.....there is alot of racism towards chinese
orbit here watching this video today, the members that got out of bbc went to modhaus (aka jaden jeong's company, the creator of loona) and a teaser of odd eye circle's (loona unit made of the member that won their lawsuits) comeback with the sentence "we rise together, back to the moon and beyond" and jaden jeong expressed his goal to reunite loona in an interview. so orbits are fully expecting that loona will be coming back together under that company when the whole bbc situation is over
Is the 2020 scandal not the AOA bullying scandal with Jimin?
Regarding the intro: i'd say yeah that rewording would make a huge difference. Onces (especially ones that have been there from jump) are *very* defensive over these types of things bc the girls get everything about them undermined and misrepresented to an extreme degree. I did watch those videos so i know you weren't trying to say there's not talented or anything like that but we have to deal with people saying they also 100% lipsynch at their concerts so you can imagine how a huge channel saying something ambiguous can set some people off. That being said i'm in the same boat as Audrey regarding liveshows (i'm over them tbh) but years ago they did genuinely sing live quite a bit on livestages too, which might add to the uproar you faced 😭
I'll also add that there has been a huge influx of Onces (for the absolute worse imo) and a majority of the ones that were already here have had to deal with *way too much* and are just pissed tf off atp so... yeah
On the actual topic: I've been in both situations where i stay clear from a group bc of the fandom, and where i just drop a group bc the fandom just makes interacting with their stuff absolutely insufferable. And just like Audrey one of those groups is BTS. I did like some of their stuff but i genuinely cannot stand the attitude surrounding them, the couple of songs that hit weren't worth sticking around and the group itself just doesn't do it for me like.. i wouldn't know how to put it without pissing people off but they're just not all that i'm afraid. One other thing that plays a part for me is when the members of a group themselves *never ever* address the way their fans behave towards other artists/other fans - or towards the group itself (in BLACKPINK's case for instance). Like i understand there are probably contractual reasons or that kind of stuff but still
I guess long story short: the two *biggest* instances are Armys (and BTS) stopping me from getting deeper into the group and Blinks fully making me drop BP for a multitude of reasons. I stay clear of almost every 4th gen groups bc most of their stans are pandemic stans and i won't get into why but that plays a huge part in how they interact even with the groups themselves - so there's that, the members' ages and the way they seem to be handled (the types of images that are curated, the narratives that are being pushed etc.)
I love your voice. "Excuse me" ☺️
Ur glasses are iconic
iirc, the only group that more or less successfully regrouped after all members left their original company was got7.
another jyp group that lost a member soon after debut is day6
I guess I don’t interact with enough kpop fans? I listen to the music, watch mv’s, and some extra content for certain groups. But I haven’t really had any conflicts with people?
I definitely see actual crazy people responding to others though. Or some “unpopular opinions” videos being super psycho and hurtful. So, I can see why if you were to actually interact with one of these people, you might not want to engage in the fandom anymore!
I was an Exo-L and Army right in the middle of the Fan War of 2016 and both sides were just at each others throats and you couldn't stan both groups at the same time and I was just on the receiving end of so many negative Army comments that I had to walk away. I completely agree that the fandom made me start to associate the hate from the fans to feeling hate from BTS themselves. So glad I found a small group near me that are BTS stans but also love other groups and in 2019 I started to really enjoy them again.
Exo fans were horrible back then. Stopped listening to exo
When I say i'm a FEARNOT and TOKKI i don't associate myself with anyone, I am a fan and if they're toxic it's a shame on them. Also I think a lot about how le sserafim and newjeans would actually hate them if they knew how they act and they'd love me so that feels a lot better!
Wonho and BI. Those guys deserve better. MUCH better.
I think if u unstan a boy because of fandom u r to mentally not that strong to ignore things and focus on good . I don't let outer things affected things I like
Let me tell you why I as a Stay do not talk about Woojin and why he rubbed me the wrong way.
1) He was very unprofessional leaving before Levanter and the 1st photobook was released forcing everyone to have to scramble to record , change cherography, redo and edit photos. He could have had the decency to finish the comeback first.
2) I felt like he didn't like being in SKZ and perfer being solo since he literally announced his solo debut shortly after leaving. SO HE CLEARLY DIDNT HAVE A MEDICAL REASON TO LEAVE SO WHY DIDNT HE FINISH THE COMEBACK???? And Chan's live where he talks about Woojin basically not doing his part annoys me. I know Chan can spill all the tea but I find it rude the way he left them hanging like that.
3) The fact that skz re-recorded their discography and released it a month after Levanter...just wow! I dunno the reason behind it but it just makes you question Woojin even more.
4) the fact that he left with no explanation rubs me the wrong way
5) the group actually is better without him so there's no need to even bring him up. He's no Wonho . That's for sure.
6) that terrible documentary he released before his debut was so insensitive in my opinion. It literally put the nail in the coffin for me ever liking him.
31:43 from what i have Wojiin was accused of sa and bullying the members and when Chan talked about it he said "don't believe what you see on camera" so... That's all i know.
I became a stay after he left so i don't know if it's true but Chan on his live said that skz are ot8 and we should know that.
I am not Army, but i love BTS, especially Jhope and the attitude of the fans (toxic fans) does not stop me from loving them
Lucas, pls come back!
Kiwi is adorbs AF ❤❤❤
Now that you say it. It makes me sad when K-pop stans buy expensive stuff for their faves, put on billboards for their birthdays. And with that amount of money, they can donate to people in need. Help paying someone else’s tuition or buy a house. Even Britney Spears talked about how no one gave her anything when she was poor, but after she became famous, she got a lot of free stuff. I am not saying it’s bad that you want to do a project for your fave, it’s just something I was wondering for a while 🙇🏻♀️
Not Today and Blood Sweat & Tears are also the only songs I liked from BTS, what a coincidence!
I try to see what the fandom is like before I get deep into a group. I won't interact with a toxic fandom, which means I'm less likely to see their group's content and have less of a chance to know members or stan the group wholeheartedly. You hit the nail on the head when you said you associate members' faces with the behavior of stans who use them as profile pics, because even if we know they're different people, we're still being conditioned to associate a face with our emotional responses.
Also, is it even a thing to unstan a group because of the fandom when you really enjoy their music? Like how does it go for a person who's not Audrey and who in fact quite likes the product the group makes? Do you restraint yourself to not listen to the music that brings you joy because the fandom it's nice? (In which case no one wins and you are the one who loses). Or listening to the music of the group and being in a fandom are completely different things? I feel like there is so much to say ahaha
The first OP is a Blink
Regarding the loona situation, i don't think this is about the group losing members or not having more content, the members clearly don't wanna be part of Loona anymore (hence the lawsuits against BBC) and after Chuu was kicked out, some members felt very bad, and on top of that, BBC announces a comeback they didn't even prepare for and did quick photoshoots and a quick teaser that was obviously rushed. The members also keep posting on fab (i think?) That they will keep fighting and they hope we orbits support them no matter what happens, so i personally feel this is a sign of "we are trying our hardest to win the case, so no matter what the outcome is, we hope you keep supporting us" (this is mostly a personal feeling tho).
Orbits are okay with loona disbanding. We understand that the girls’ well being is more important than anything else. We know the chances of them (12) debuting together are zero to none. We just want their freedom from that company.
Yeah, can't get into Enhyphen because they have the worst 4th gen fandom. Literally gets into fanwars with all 4th gen bg fandoms
Same for me but for stray kidz, just cant get into them when their fans are so notoriously toxic amongst 4th gen
blinks can be soo intense sometimes on the disbanding thing like for a screentime or a rap or a line they l make tags wanting thier bias to leave and thats the problem with bp fans they rae so convnced that the members will do so good solo or without yg when nothing is garantied ... yg is a hyge promoter even with brand deals they dont even know what the contracts with these deals are or who are the participens... they trust the fame of the girls to just keep going like that if they go solo because they are so famous but they are falmous like that as blackppink and pepole invest money in them as a group or as a solo because theya re from bp .. my point is even bp and bts who are like the most over the top famous of allgroups are not safe there is nothing that guaranteethat they will make music have deals or have that level of fame when they disband...
angelina just so you know its blockberry creative not blackberry creative lol
damn autocorrect! lol
honestly, a group i unstanned is bts. dont get me wrong, im a fan. i like their music and the boys, ive loved them for a long time. but i just cant call myself an army anymore, and thats due to the fandom. i know every fandom has their bad apples but the amount of toxic armies is extreme. "thats because bts are popular and have more fans" which is true, to an extent. but i just see more toxic armies than nice ones these days and it just makes me upset. i support bts, but im not an army anymore
Is Angelina French or Canadian?
The reason why army and blink have more toxic fans because simply they are the 2 biggest fandom in kpop now ,and I want to correct something the army actually are more older than most 3rd generation groups fans but at the same time they have more younger fans
Lovely talk :)
Damn, $50?!
omg thank you so much 💕😭
Is it weird to unstan a group because of a fandom? Yes, cause that means you weren´t there for the GROUP in the first place
If you weren't there for the group then what?
Can't you just really like the music and don't really care that much about the idols???
You can love someone music without loving the people who just sing and dance to it
Why do you have to gatekeep everything
This behaviour just makes people stay away from certain fandoms and groups
You are just reinforcing that gurl
exactly
i think a lot of ppl misunderstand "staning". Personally I don't think you are a "stan" if you just casually like the group(s) or just like a few songs of that group(s).
The issue most armys have with multi-stan are that they would say they (multi-stans) are armys then to throw BTS under the bus for their other group(s) that they stan. Granted that they (armys) do generalize all multi-stan.
There will always be toxic fans with in any fandom. The bigger the fandom is, the more toxic fans they have base on how huge the fandom is.
I think being a stan means you support the group genuinely by voting, buying and/or streaming. You don't have to do all that if you have priorities in your life but if you don't even enjoy the majority of the group's music and/or their activities then I don't know if that is staning that group.
Audrey sounds more like a casual fan at most.
I don't understand how you can stan a group without knowing the names of all the members in the group?
Note: staning is not for everyone. If you surround yourself with toxic stans then you will eventually would get harassed one way or another.
Hi another orbit here. I can see that you have not fully aware of the situation and leaning more via the comments here.
I wanted to say that one of the boycotts terms was to give the members the choice to terminate their contracts with Blockberry.
The lawsuit filing news was broken by JTBC 3 days after Chuu's expulsion news and less than 24h hours where the rest of the members had to fulfilled a video fan meet for their Japanese Single promotions (all the members were clearly distraught and breaking down in-front of fans).
Funny thing Blockberry release a statement gaslighting the whole Chuu situation after dealing with the backlash and outcry against them and full support declarations from multiple people for Chuu's character and how Blockberry claimed that the members had to suffer due to her behaviour in their statement. JTBC broke the termination lawsuit news within 30 minutes of that ridiculous statement.
The agency lied to both JTBC and Newsen stating that the news was "groundless". This was the RED FLAG most of the Orbits fandom was looking for to know the report was true. They have been using that term of all of 2022 in regards to every news of Chuu's lawsuit. All the members who took part in the injuction stayed silent till the 13th of January when their primary verdit was reported on. These were members who daily interacted with fans within Fab communcation app. Hence that clause was part of the boycott pledged as we knew it members wanted to escape the company.
The agency actively silents fans in the group's fan cafe with them deleting their posts and issuing bans ranging from a day to whole month. The fandom have dealt with 6 years for the agency mistreating the members and the fandom with their gaslighting and constants lies. The Chuu false defamation and knowing the members wanted out was the driving force of the boycott. This boycott was already silently happening after their world tour but took into force after all the above came out in public play.
What drove the comeback sales boycott even harder was that fact member Hyunjin (who has not filed for an injunction) replied to one or two fans (via Fab app) on the date the comeback was announced that she also wished like the fan she could leave the agency. This was leaked onto Twitter and during the course of the boycott few fans were keeping her updated on the situation and she liked their responses. Fans where pissed to learn this comeback was under planned, rushed, force member Choerry who was on health hiatus back for this comeback and made the members film for over 4 days outside when the weather was negative degrees during the coldest period in December in Seoul.
The fans saying they join Chuu's company are naive but every fandom have naive fans.
I do like to comment on the keeping the group together situation. The fandom and the group members always seen the group as full 12 members. The members personally kept on highlighting this fact even after Chuu's explusion. The members who filed their lawsuits wanted to leave together (this what was actually reported by SK Media). The members are all united and supportive of each other. However with the latest verdict it made thing more difficult for them to all stay together.
Even I have mentioned above, most of the fandom who are boycotting looking out for the member's health more than anything else. Most have accepted the fact that all the members might not reunite especially with the injunction verdict. For them to get out of the agency is more important than the group staying together. The members who lost their primary hearing to suspend their contracts (termination case is on going) all have broken down especially the youngest member Yeojin (who was 14 when signing her contract) had a mental breakdown the night before her 6th year anniversary for debuting with fans over on the Fab app.
Latest news is the fandom is working on a legal petition to hand over to the Law Firm who are representing Loona Members in their lawsuit. It's the choice of the members of Loona who want to leave the agency and that's what most of the fandom respects and want too.
I don't want to lump all ARMY into all one bad patch but a good majority of them are toxic whether it involves the boys, other fans, or other artist. It's like if you think differently from them you get burned at the stake and it's ridiculous at this point. I just don't get how these same bullies stan the AMBASSADORS of an anti-bullying campaign.
It may seem like the majority of ARMY, but it's not. It's just the negative always gets more attention so it seems that way. Most ARMY I encounter are really respectful. Also not every BTS fan is interacting with other fans or on social media. So even if most ARMY on social media are toxic in some way there are millions of fans who aren't toxic but are just keeping their distance from the toxicity on social media and support the boys from afar.
not a good majority but yeah good majority on TWT who believes in "BTSPOP"💀☠
I think the group they were talking about is Gfriend lmao
5:34 lol same
Itzys fans are so toxic that I unstanned. Didn't help that JYP started making their music less enjoyable
Wonho left because han seohee or whatever her name is that was making all the allegations about idols up years ago made one of wonho up. He didn't actually do any of that. He was found innocent and that is why monbebe fought for him so much even to this day. But for some reason knetizens still don't want wonho to even talk about MX or anything. Smh. He had his career ruined for nothing