Every time I read or listen to Dr. Norman Finkelstein (my old Hunter College Professor) I leave smarter, brighter and wiser. Truly, my IQ jumps up exponentially and all because of his genuine character, intellect and down to earth nature. Thank you, Finkelstein! I will forever be grateful. Gilbrando Acevedo
Norman is spot on. Class struggle because ever since the onslaught of Neoliberalism and Reagan and thatcher. They have been waging a class warfare for 40 plus years. We have to focus on class struggle and a critique of capitalism. 1 share 1 vote worker cooperatives
Always fascinating to listen to Mr. Finkelstein. His view on slogans/speeches/lectures/contributions to the audience is reminiscent of the Buddhas rationale for the number of Sutras, to convey in the most appropriate way, and only to the extent of the audiences understanding, the ultimate goal of the teaching. Keep up the good work.
The fact that he is Jewish and has not been intimidated by those factions among the Zionists who view his position on Israel and Palestine as 1. Antisemitic and 2. pro-Hamas, respectively places him in the vanguard of those who stand for justice, with a fervent respect for human dignity and the right to self determination of all people.
@@edwardjones2202 Says and does exactly what they think and like without caring or changing based on anything. Conservatives started to use it so some people think it is a right wing thing.
When President Harry Truman was running for reelection, someone called out, "Give 'em hell, Harry." He responded, "I just tell them the truth, and they think it's hell!" Professor Finkelstein tells Jews the truth and they surely think it's hell!
28:38 Thank you "newdawnRising" this comment is excellent! and jibes with what I have observed in the culture of the last 10 years. I suspect that right wing and particularly Israeli internet influencers have interjected this lexicon into the culture that helps divide the left wing in the u.s. I do find Norman's views on it enriching and informative, as I do with everything that Mr Finkelstein does. I never use the following terms because I can sense that they're coming from right-wing influencers; identity politics, woke, triggered, snowflake, etc. I'm always shocked when I talk to a fellow leftist, and they have adopted this type of jargon.
Professor Finkelstein is correct to say who started the Russia-Ukraine war is different from asking who fired the first shot. Perhaps a better historical analogy or double standard would be the Israel-Arab War of 1967 where Israel was deemed then and now (by the usual governments and mass media in the west) to have acted justifiably preemptively. And speaking of historical analogies, how is the US government behaving any differently with Russia over Ukraine than the US government did with Mexico over Texas, or the US government with Spain over Cuba/Puerto Rico/Philippines? Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Your analagy only makes sense if you compare what Russia did to what Israel did in 1967. Russia is considered as an aggressor in several UN resolutions already. In 1967 the UN was split between those that wanted to condemn Israel and those that took a rather neutral stance, but nowhere did the UN come out as strongly condemning Israel as it has done with Russia.
@@hakanpetersson2662 The UN is a fig leaf that Amerikkka wears when it can, and when they can't, it becomes their whipping boy. Your comment is pointless. Good day.
@@hakanpetersson2662 😅 Typical of Europeans to think that they are the centre of the world. Apart from the US and it's vassals, everybody either supported Russia or stayed neutral
@@gauravtejpal8901 I actially bothered to read who came out to support the UN resolutions branding Russia as an aggressor state in 2022. Some 75 % of UN member states did. Far beyond USA and its western allies. Only a handful states came out against the resolutions. Maybe read up before revealing your own ignorance?
@@hakanpetersson2662 So now we must listen to what the US/UN says. All this shows is that 75% of UN member states are in the pocket of the US. Haven't you figured this out yet?
I can see how some people might take issue with some of the sweeping statements Norm makes but the overall argument is an accurate depiction of the dichotomy between the socialist and liberal "left." The prison abolition thing is an absolute case of trendy language over substance. No one seriously engages with how it would work because it will never have to work since the people who support it have no interest in building a socialist society.
Love Norm, thanks for this - just wanted to point out at 36:20, it seems at least from my perspective to be more about creating that cultural shibboleth "wedge issue" in the cultural space in the first place, ie to carve a space in the cultural conversation to superficially battle over rather than to attack "the right" or Republicans, as if it were a pair of jangling keys hovered over the American public. If that makes sense. Not to say that this doesn't have consequence/impact downstream, just that the tactics could potentially be a bit more cynical from a ruling class perspective. Totally agree with the point though of course, I think this merely adds to its veracity.
Norman’saffect has changed since he’s being interviewed and not teaching. His first love. I think Professor Norman Finkelstein is exasperated with the war on Gaza. It’s taking a toll on him. And on millions of other s. But he has been so closely involved.
About the conundrum of the 3 oppressions example: black, woman, black woman. How about using colours to explain it? Black = blue; woman = yellow; black woman = green.
Yeah, but that only convert it to to programmable variables that can be represented as color code. It still doesn't make it easier to understand because the color scale is a spectrum. To make it useful you'll need to weigh each of these attributes according to where they fall on the repression scale, I don't think any sane person would want to decide the value vfor each attribute/sex/handicap/ethnicity.
RE: 19:15 Norm's anecdotal evidence proves only his age. A hundred years ago, you probably wouldn't get many Africans or Asians in "Western" institutions taking loud exception to being called "boy" or "laddie"...does that mean they didn't mind? Rather, Norm's related experience shows that people don't feel comfortable talking about it, either in general or with Norm in particular.
Then he goes on to tarring "pronoun" people by switching to talking about CNN and MSNBC, as if the former are responsible for the latter. The tail is truly wagging the dog. 🐕
I know trans girls who don't give a damn about pronouns. The rest of the population care even less about this nonsense Protecting trans people from hate: important Changing the centuries old meaning of some simple English words: utterly trivial
People have been taught to take offence now where they once didn't - I'm talking about the same person now Vs years ago. They'll then project back onto their own past and forget how they used to think and feel.
@@hopelessatusernames Were enslaved Africans "taught to take offence" at the n-word? Being lynched? Being denied the right to use the damn toilet? Honestly, you clowns are tiresome. STFU and show some solidarity, you goddamn bootlicker.
tell us sir, who should have authority over my local water source, group of village educated folks who have solutions or an elected official who is on his throne for 60 years because he distributes alcohol just before elections? expand your view on democracy.
The critique about having just more representation will not solve capitalism is powerful and accurate. But its a rather caricature to say "woke" people only care about this and don't care about other issue. what "Wokeness" is trying to do is bring out voice that were historically marginalized and not heard. Obviously ruling class would want to co-opt this through pink washing but there more depth to this ideology than he gives credit for.
In what way? To Finkelstein's point people would rather eat then worry about pronouns. From the point of view in the global south, pronouns is a first world problem.. right up there with the internet is out for an hour.
@@user-sy5ij1bh4i also, downwardly mobile westerners have been bought off by the elite to focus on this stuff instead of material benefits they might be fighting for
@@hopelessatusernames Clowns like you and Norm are "focusing on this stuff", because they've been hornswoggled by scumlords like Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson and Jordan Peterson. I'm confident that if Norm could sit down and talk with a trans person who has some practice explaining this stuff to other Normies (L-Mao), he would understand and finally STFU about it. Same for you.
Wouldn't it be a nice idea to get writers like Ibram X. Kendi and Angela Davis together on the same stage sharing ideas? Plus, I'm sure a publisher like Haymarket has a way to bring in experienced authors right? I mean, he was even on the Democracy Now program!
I'm a middle-aged white straight man in the US and I would argue that the white working class votes against their own economic self-interest because of religion and nationalism. They cannot bring themselves to question institutions like the military or business because that is part of their identity, so they blame feminists, minorities, gays and other groups for problems caused by conservative and nationalistic ideology. The debate is complicated by people on the left calling centrists "liberals," and ignoring a history in which the antiwar, environmental, and civil rights movements were dominated by "liberals," not by socialists or communists who may have supported those movements but were a much smaller part of them.
You used the term "identity" to describe voting against our (working class) interests. That's the entire point of abandoning identity politics altogether. It promotes voting against our interests with illusions of cultural capitalism.
Absolute toilet comment. What is a "centrist"? Also, all those movements you deign to list mostly would have gone nowhere without communist muckraking. Remember The New Deal? Yeah...FDR didn't actually want to do that. Read a book, pisher.
Your thesis has already been disproved by the number of minorities and gays who support those religion and nationalism, not to mention that most white working class people in the US are just not that racist and havent been since the 80s. Most people aren't 70 year old. Also, most people hate feminists because feminism is obviously reactionary and intellectually fraudulent. It's obvious to the liberals who use it to divide people, it just isn't obvious to leftists because without a left wing mass movement or infrastructure, leftists are just a small club of mostly middle class people with a certain personality type going through some weird personal stage.
Every time I read or listen to Dr. Norman Finkelstein (my old Hunter College Professor) I leave smarter, brighter and wiser. Truly, my IQ jumps up exponentially and all because of his genuine character, intellect and down to earth nature. Thank you, Finkelstein! I will forever be grateful. Gilbrando Acevedo
Thank you for having a legend on your show. We have the upmost respect for Professor Norman finklestein.
Finkelstein is a treasure. I remember about 20 years ago devouring his book "The Holocaust Industry." What an astonishing and poignant read that is.
Norman Finkelstien is a gem! May Allah guide him.
Norman is spot on. Class struggle because ever since the onslaught of Neoliberalism and Reagan and thatcher. They have been waging a class warfare for 40 plus years. We have to focus on class struggle and a critique of capitalism. 1 share 1 vote worker cooperatives
I watched the entire show. It was brilliant, as always from IGL. Thanks
Always fascinating to listen to Mr. Finkelstein. His view on slogans/speeches/lectures/contributions to the audience is reminiscent of the Buddhas rationale for the number of Sutras, to convey in the most appropriate way, and only to the extent of the audiences understanding, the ultimate goal of the teaching. Keep up the good work.
Yes. The Buddha taught his students in this way. All the great teachers of the past taught in this way
The fact that he is Jewish and has not been intimidated by those factions among the Zionists who view his position on Israel and Palestine as 1. Antisemitic and 2. pro-Hamas, respectively places him in the vanguard of those who stand for justice, with a fervent respect for human dignity and the right to self determination of all people.
Norm is so based. Love it
What does based mean? (Please)
@@edwardjones2202 Says and does exactly what they think and like without caring or changing based on anything.
Conservatives started to use it so some people think it is a right wing thing.
@@edwardjones2202 It means the person saying it is a Fing CHUD.
Most based human alive
I thoroughly enjoyed this. The host was excellent and professor Finkelstein shone.
When President Harry Truman was running for reelection, someone called out, "Give 'em hell, Harry." He responded, "I just tell them the truth, and they think it's hell!" Professor Finkelstein tells Jews the truth and they surely think it's hell!
28:38
Thank you "newdawnRising" this comment is excellent! and jibes with what I have observed in the culture of the last 10 years. I suspect that right wing and particularly Israeli internet influencers have interjected this lexicon into the culture that helps divide the left wing in the u.s.
I do find Norman's views on it enriching and informative, as I do with everything that Mr Finkelstein does. I never use the following terms because I can sense that they're coming from right-wing influencers; identity politics, woke, triggered, snowflake, etc. I'm always shocked when I talk to a fellow leftist, and they have adopted this type of jargon.
"I call it the Crenshaw multiplier" lmao
Professor Finkelstein is correct to say who started the Russia-Ukraine war is different from asking who fired the first shot. Perhaps a better historical analogy or double standard would be the Israel-Arab War of 1967 where Israel was deemed then and now (by the usual governments and mass media in the west) to have acted justifiably preemptively. And speaking of historical analogies, how is the US government behaving any differently with Russia over Ukraine than the US government did with Mexico over Texas, or the US government with Spain over Cuba/Puerto Rico/Philippines? Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Your analagy only makes sense if you compare what Russia did to what Israel did in 1967. Russia is considered as an aggressor in several UN resolutions already. In 1967 the UN was split between those that wanted to condemn Israel and those that took a rather neutral stance, but nowhere did the UN come out as strongly condemning Israel as it has done with Russia.
@@hakanpetersson2662 The UN is a fig leaf that Amerikkka wears when it can, and when they can't, it becomes their whipping boy. Your comment is pointless. Good day.
@@hakanpetersson2662 😅 Typical of Europeans to think that they are the centre of the world. Apart from the US and it's vassals, everybody either supported Russia or stayed neutral
@@gauravtejpal8901 I actially bothered to read who came out to support the UN resolutions branding Russia as an aggressor state in 2022. Some 75 % of UN member states did. Far beyond USA and its western allies. Only a handful states came out against the resolutions. Maybe read up before revealing your own ignorance?
@@hakanpetersson2662 So now we must listen to what the US/UN says. All this shows is that 75% of UN member states are in the pocket of the US. Haven't you figured this out yet?
love Fink, can't understand why he love Trotsky so much
@@communist754 Did you read Grover Furr?
Mao was his thing. Mao was a Stalinist and Trotsky was assassinated by Stalin
This was fantastic
I can see how some people might take issue with some of the sweeping statements Norm makes but the overall argument is an accurate depiction of the dichotomy between the socialist and liberal "left." The prison abolition thing is an absolute case of trendy language over substance. No one seriously engages with how it would work because it will never have to work since the people who support it have no interest in building a socialist society.
So what is to be done????? Haven't we talked about it all enough - most of us see though the charade. What should be done? When it chnge?
Oak Politics
Good one!
Love Norm, thanks for this - just wanted to point out at 36:20, it seems at least from my perspective to be more about creating that cultural shibboleth "wedge issue" in the cultural space in the first place, ie to carve a space in the cultural conversation to superficially battle over rather than to attack "the right" or Republicans, as if it were a pair of jangling keys hovered over the American public. If that makes sense. Not to say that this doesn't have consequence/impact downstream, just that the tactics could potentially be a bit more cynical from a ruling class perspective. Totally agree with the point though of course, I think this merely adds to its veracity.
2^n - 1 oppressions
Norman’saffect has changed since he’s being interviewed and not teaching. His first love. I think Professor Norman Finkelstein is exasperated with the war on Gaza. It’s taking a toll on him. And on millions of other s. But he has been so closely involved.
They have a strangle hold on the world.
About the conundrum of the 3 oppressions example: black, woman, black woman. How about using colours to explain it? Black = blue; woman = yellow; black woman = green.
Yeah, but that only convert it to to programmable variables that can be represented as color code. It still doesn't make it easier to understand because the color scale is a spectrum. To make it useful you'll need to weigh each of these attributes according to where they fall on the repression scale, I don't think any sane person would want to decide the value vfor each attribute/sex/handicap/ethnicity.
chauvinism was the word Norman was looking for
Claudia Jones wrote about Black women workers during the early 50s; look here up.
Oppression Sweepstakes 🤠Yeeehaaaawww
RE: 19:15 Norm's anecdotal evidence proves only his age. A hundred years ago, you probably wouldn't get many Africans or Asians in "Western" institutions taking loud exception to being called "boy" or "laddie"...does that mean they didn't mind? Rather, Norm's related experience shows that people don't feel comfortable talking about it, either in general or with Norm in particular.
Then he goes on to tarring "pronoun" people by switching to talking about CNN and MSNBC, as if the former are responsible for the latter. The tail is truly wagging the dog. 🐕
Yup. I think this is accurate.
I know trans girls who don't give a damn about pronouns. The rest of the population care even less about this nonsense
Protecting trans people from hate: important
Changing the centuries old meaning of some simple English words: utterly trivial
People have been taught to take offence now where they once didn't - I'm talking about the same person now Vs years ago. They'll then project back onto their own past and forget how they used to think and feel.
@@hopelessatusernames Were enslaved Africans "taught to take offence" at the n-word? Being lynched? Being denied the right to use the damn toilet? Honestly, you clowns are tiresome. STFU and show some solidarity, you goddamn bootlicker.
See: " Finding Your Whiteness in a Time of Crisis: The Reeducation of Norman Finkelstein" by Jon Jeter, Black Agenda Report, April 5, 2023.
What about the term "capitalism " -- does it appear in "woke" vocabulary?
The guy on the top left, is his house on fire????
Blurry cameras.....bad microphones/sound.....these guys could use an update.
The jump cuts are terrible
1:32:18 Criticisms of BDS
Experts should have more say than elected officials? That's the most undemocratic thing I can imagine anyone saying.
tell us sir, who should have authority over my local water source, group of village educated folks who have solutions or an elected official who is on his throne for 60 years because he distributes alcohol just before elections? expand your view on democracy.
@@harishkumardatla6839 Best comment on the page, saathi...maybe best comment ever! 🎯
@@harishkumardatla6839 lol
Elected officials who have been bought and paid for by corporatist, profit motive polluters.
What is a person like you doing on a channel like this?
The critique about having just more representation will not solve capitalism is powerful and accurate. But its a rather caricature to say "woke" people only care about this and don't care about other issue. what "Wokeness" is trying to do is bring out voice that were historically marginalized and not heard. Obviously ruling class would want to co-opt this through pink washing but there more depth to this ideology than he gives credit for.
In what way? To Finkelstein's point people would rather eat then worry about pronouns. From the point of view in the global south, pronouns is a first world problem.. right up there with the internet is out for an hour.
@@user-sy5ij1bh4i also, downwardly mobile westerners have been bought off by the elite to focus on this stuff instead of material benefits they might be fighting for
@@hopelessatusernames Clowns like you and Norm are "focusing on this stuff", because they've been hornswoggled by scumlords like Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson and Jordan Peterson. I'm confident that if Norm could sit down and talk with a trans person who has some practice explaining this stuff to other Normies (L-Mao), he would understand and finally STFU about it. Same for you.
woke ideology in its present form misses the bigger picture.
@@Djordj69 There's no such thing as "woke ideology". You simply don't understand.
What is with the edits? Im only 2mins in and i cant take it any more. Somebody pls comment if it gets better and I'll come back. Thanks.
Wouldn't it be a nice idea to get writers like Ibram X. Kendi and Angela Davis together on the same stage sharing ideas? Plus, I'm sure a publisher like Haymarket has a way to bring in experienced authors right? I mean, he was even on the Democracy Now program!
24:22 Also, readily available birth control.
I'm a middle-aged white straight man in the US and I would argue that the white working class votes against their own economic self-interest because of religion and nationalism. They cannot bring themselves to question institutions like the military or business because that is part of their identity, so they blame feminists, minorities, gays and other groups for problems caused by conservative and nationalistic ideology.
The debate is complicated by people on the left calling centrists "liberals," and ignoring a history in which the antiwar, environmental, and civil rights movements were dominated by "liberals," not by socialists or communists who may have supported those movements but were a much smaller part of them.
You used the term "identity" to describe voting against our (working class) interests.
That's the entire point of abandoning identity politics altogether.
It promotes voting against our interests with illusions of cultural capitalism.
Absolute toilet comment. What is a "centrist"? Also, all those movements you deign to list mostly would have gone nowhere without communist muckraking. Remember The New Deal? Yeah...FDR didn't actually want to do that. Read a book, pisher.
Voting for the democrats is not in any way voting for their own economic interest tho
Your thesis has already been disproved by the number of minorities and gays who support those religion and nationalism, not to mention that most white working class people in the US are just not that racist and havent been since the 80s. Most people aren't 70 year old.
Also, most people hate feminists because feminism is obviously reactionary and intellectually fraudulent. It's obvious to the liberals who use it to divide people, it just isn't obvious to leftists because without a left wing mass movement or infrastructure, leftists are just a small club of mostly middle class people with a certain personality type going through some weird personal stage.
If you're going to edit your video, don't cut your guest off mid-sentence. Very sloppy.
Finkelstein is such a treasure but wasted on sub par interviews. What’s the point of asking him things he’s shouted himself hoarse saying.
I'm not understanding your last sentence.
@@user-sy5ij1bh4i "hoarse" not "horse"