Dio Zeppeli i mean it couldnt be helped since the pygmy was greedy enough to break the dark soul into pieces to have all of the pygmy be a soul carrier. Like any dead pygmy is a free soul booster so why not gather them up? I mean that really was your job but you dont just stop on the dark soul but the other lord souls too.
Yeah... but what makes it "life?" Nito became undead and could induce it at will in response to the soul of "death" but what makes The Witch's soul a "life soul?" The only life she made were her children (which she might have had asexually since she is a proto-human, and therefore may have a different biology) and the demons (which was by accident, and killed/mutated her in the process)
CryoWalrus Firstly Nito isn't undead, undead appeared after he got his soul. Now the witch's soul became The Chaos Flame which can create "unnatural life" in the form of demons, which it seems to create from nothing. This is why it's a life soul. It basicly becomes another First Flame that has its own life forms related to it.
The sisters as the Asylum, Stray and Fire Sage demons is definitely an interesting thought. I also like the idea that Quelana left her robes in Izalith in an attempt to make people think she had died, and maybe also to comfort her brother is some way? Good job dude, keep them coming
Still haven't played the Dark Souls III huh? Gwyns son turned out to be The Nameless King, who joined the dragons... The broken statues in DSI and the one missing in the O&S boss area resembles the Nameless King, not Solaire... The Nameless King is in Dark Souls III in Archdragon Peak, as a last optional boss, you get these things from his boss soul, weapon, rings and equip, which can be bought from Handmaid in Firelink Shrine.
how does me making a joke about solaire being a daughter of chaos before ds3 even came out make mean that. I Mean your right at that point in time i hadn't played ds3 but that has nothing to do with my comment.
Firesage is NOT Salaman, Quelanna herself give the timeline and the flame of chaos was created 1000 years ago and 200 years ago she took Salaman as an apprentice, and since Pyromancy is not a sorcery and Firesage is the last master of the flame arts (explicitly stated to be a different kind of magic) he could not be Salaman. If Firesage is one of the daughters its is another thing entirely but look at the word engulfed; To swallow up or overwhelm by or as if by overflowing and enclosing Maybe the Witch controlled the flame directly with the aid of 2 daughters and when they lost control over the flame those nearest where engulfed into the flame to create the bed of chaos, while those further away where either mutated (the spider sisters) or spared (Quelanna and the eldest daughter) while ceaseless had been mutated from the exposure to the flame of chaos from the womb (and who is the daddy anyway) oh and notice the height difference from the Witch (a giant) and her normal sized human daughters
I have been playing Dark Souls for over a year now and am still discovering new lore thanks to youtubers like you and Vaatividya. I hope Dark Souls 2 will contain just as much interesting lore that many people will be trying to unearth and piece together.
Did anyone find it somewhat fitting that the WItch of Izalith was obsessed with the idea of creating life? Given she was the ONLY wielder of a Lord's Soul that was a mother? It seems rather sexist, but think about it. Gwyn and the Witch of Izalith form diametric opposites in the manner by which they treated their households. Gwyn was rigid, emphasizing strength and duty, order over chaos. His treatment of one of his children, Gwyndolin, could be seen as cruel, enforcing his opinions of the gender roles associated with the astral cycle (Sun & Moon) onto his children. His eldest son, becoming a god of war, his daughter, a goddess of fertility, and his youngest son, due to affinity for the moon (a mythologically feminine trait) was raised as a daughter. Meanwhile, the bonds between the family that is the Daughters of Chaos seem quite strong, significantly more compassionate than that exhibited by the Gods. In her obsession with the concept of life, and seeing the flames fade, it could easily have come that the Witch of Izalith attempted to re-create the flame in order to preserve the status quo for her family, who were utterly dependent of the Flame at this point. Her daughters still remained together save for Quelana, with Quelaag still protecting her sister Quelaan who was enfeebled, and Ceaseless Discharge still watching over the body of a fallen sister, his only solace being the hope that they watched over him still. The Demons as well, despite appearing monstrous, show that they are content with peace in their land. Having spawned from the Bed of Chaos, they are all equally children in the family that the Witch of Izalith created, and barring outside aggression, are quite content where they are, with only a small few outside that domain, and even those could be seen as rebels, or a protective vanguard depending on one's point of view. The Demons haven't killed a single Daughter of Chaos despite them living in close proximity for quite some time. While Gwyn typically emphasized masculine and patriarchal traits, the Witch of Izalith seems to emphasize more maternal ones through her obsession with the concept of life (not undeath, as Seath did) and the kinship between her family members are still quite strong even after the downfall of the age of Fire. Quelaag protects her sister likely feeding her humanity harvested from the hollows that try to brave her home, Quelaan protects those living near her home by consuming the blight pus, Discharge oversees the body of a fallen sister, and even Quelana seems to have returned to end the suffering of her mother and sisters. They all seem relatively compassionate to each other, even Quelana, despite asking the Chosen Undead to kill her siblings, seems to do so from the view that the Chaos corruption is a life of suffering. It seems rather that they are all quite empathetic individuals towards those in their own realm, and only attack the player because he/she represents a tangible threat, given the most recent intrusion into Izalith was by an army under Gwyn's command. I'm unsure, could be purely speculation, but the symbolism there stands pretty well.
Jordan L Actually two. You don't necessarily have to kill the Pyromancer in front of BoC's fog gate. Only children of Izalith you're mandated to kill are Quelaag and Ceaseless Discharge
Dave I think you made a great point on the Firesage. "The last master of the original fire arts." I think that sounds like pretty clear evidence we're talking about the witches as we never heard of other fire sorcerers, especially since the pyromancers came after the flame of chaos as the item also states. It would also make sense that the most powerful beings in Izalith and most likely closest to the Flame of Chaos would be transformed first. Dang I love this channel for the intricate connections you make all across the game! It never occurred to me that the Demon Firesage (and the other two) might be THAT important to the plot--I just assumed they were generic bosses From Soft copied and pasted. But considering their subtle lore details it definitely would make sense. As much as I love Vaati's theories, I think you hit the nail best.
Me too - beyond the gameplay being amazing, the self-discovery of the plot is such a great element. When I interviewed Yui Tanimura, they refuesed to give me any Lore details, so it definitely sounds like they're trying to do the same thing.
These videos are FANTASTIC! I already consider this one of my top 10 (maybe even top 5) favorite games, but all of these discoveries are just making me adore it even more!
I watched your Pinwheel video a couple minutes ago and just subbed. I could watch these all day. I've always dwelt on the lore in both souls games. Because as Ostrava of Boletaria back in Demon's Souls said "In the dark state of our land, legends are all we can depend on." Keep it up. :D
@DaveControl This is unrelated to the video, but related to Dark Souls 1. How would you feel about a secret third ending? One where the lord souls are given to the dragon covenant in order to reset the world back to its former grey state. I know this doesn't exist, but the idea struck me once I learned that there was an ending that plunged the world into a different age. The Age of Dark. What if it was possible to destroy the lord souls, including the dark souls, and remove the existence of light and dark at the same time, thus resulting in a grey outcome. Please tell me what you think! Would love to hear your thoughts.
I think within the context of Dark Souls 1 alone, it would be a fun alternate ending. Within the context of Dark Souls 2 - it almost seems like that's similar to the Age of Dark in a lot of ways. (In my opinion).
Random thought inspired by Daves video: Everyone argues over who the mother of the painter in ariandel is, what if it was Qualanna all along? She ran from Izalith and learnt to fear the flame just as she warns us in darksouls 1. Perhaps in her quest for redemption she ended up in the painted world and while there she gave birth and then taught her daughter how flame is so vital and yet you must always be weary of such light and perhaps even taught her about the darksoul or the power of the chosen undead who controlled a part of its power
I don't think the Witch did so out of a desire for power, but to save every thing she and her loved ones fought to build. As the holder of the Life Soul she is a Goddess of Life the deific representation of Motherhood, and probably saw it as her duty to try and preserve life by replacing the dying flame.
I wouldn't say that the remaining daughters were the demons you meet at the Undead Asylem and beyond; because then they would be supporting Lord Gwyene in preventing the Chosen Undead from causing trouble. I say the last two sisters were with the Witch of Izilath and attempted to aid their mother, but failed, and became part of her; similar to Pinwheel when you think about it.
Maybe the two sister deamons in the asylum didnt like the plan to create life and ditched their mother to help the idea of extending the fire. Cus when you think about it.. The demon in izalith guards the mother, and looks very, very fiery. The two in the asylum doesn't look fiery at all, and would be working for Gwyn just food for thought :)
I think the description of the demon's catalyst is meant to say that the Demon Firesage is supposed to be the first of the demons to master the fire sorceries, and that he was the only one who remained a fire sorcerer, after pyromancy became an alternative. so he is 'just another demon' in how he was born, learned to become a master of his craft, a craft that then became obsolete after pyromancy was developed.
I have to agree that the aforementioned demons in the video are the three remaining daughter of chaos. The AoE power that the Stray Demon and the Firesage Demon looks exactly the same as the AoE power of Chaos Witch Quelaag uses. The reason the Asylum Demon does not use this power is because it does not have a catylist, instead a large club.
Great video! I disagree with the idea of the Lord Souls representing aspects of the flame. I think they are just souls that, if you translated it to the game mechanics, just had the most points of any soul. Only the dark soul was unique, according to Kaath. I would say if we are trying to divide up the aspects described in the intro, they just get split between flame souls and dark souls. Flame souls (especially the lord variety) would completely embody light, heat, and death. The Dark souls got dark, cold, and life. Granted I know this video was made long before the Ringed City so the evidence wasn't as substantial. But in that same intro it states, "from the DARK they came..."
In regards to Denny's comment. (who's disabled replies) The three women at the start of Dark Souls 2 are Fire Keepers, this is literally covered within the first 10 minutes of the game. Fire keepers are no longer around due to the actions of Dark Souls 1.
I havent beaten dark souls 2 yet, but I thought that the woman by the bon fire in majula was a fire keeper. (oh and I killed those old women. I got lost, so I asked them where to go, but all they did was laugh at me)
I'm tempted to side with VaatiVidya's theory. Look at the Bed of Chaos boss -- in addition to the two staffs, it also has four arms, as opposed to the Witch's two in the intro. The Witch herself did not use a catalyst at any point in the intro, even when she and the Daughters "wove great firestorms" to destroy the Petrified Forests. Still, it seems like an incomplete set, until you remember that midway through the boss fight, a flaming figure erupts from the Bed of Chaos with two MORE arms of its own -- arms of living flame. Six arms; enough for three people. Add in the notion, helped along in Dark Souls 2's Lost Sinner intro, that the Chaos Bug holds the Witch's Lord Soul, and the notion presents itself: What if the energy form is the Witch's power, and the Bed of Chaos a merged form of her two daughters? The idea that the final daughter is the corpse near Ceaseless is grisly, but not out of the realm of possibility, as its garb is identical to Quelana's, and we know Quelana believes her mother and sisters beyond salvation and deserving (or needing) to die. In addition, Ceaseless seems to be looking sorrowfully at the body, either because he's dumb and confuses her for Quelana...or because he knows she ISN'T Quelana, but another of his sisters, and his grief and protectiveness for her is genuine.
was thinking with the sisters being the asylum demon. . . that brings a new angle to your first demon video as to why would they be preventing strong undead from leaving the asylum and towards bed of chaos. It doesn't change it by much as the undead would need to satiate the lord vessel with the bed of chaos but still an interesting point to still bring up.
I know that the time distortion in Lordran is often overused, but I think that the crazy sister you fight, the dead sister guarded by Ceaseless, and Quelana are all the same. This is reinforced by the fact that she still has her robes, but you can also loot them from the body. In addition, Quelana says she is the only sister who escaped. Could that mean that she was the only one who escaped mutation? If so, that would mean only three sisters are accounted for.
the seven daughters: Quelaag, Quenaan (fair lady), Quelana, body near Ceaseless, hostile outside of Bed, and the deformed bugs on either side of the Bed. the middle bug is the witch herself. speculation, of course, but that's the beauty of this game. you are SUPPOSED to speculate. they put all the keys there, but its up to you to find the holes in which they fit (and they DO fit... perfectly)
Would make sense the demons we fight being the remaining daughters of Izalith, since their guarding the bed of chaos by stopping the chosen undead may be as well an attempt to protect their mother, and as well minor demons merely serving their former ladies in this intent
I'm assuming you mean the following? "The Flame of Chaos engulfed Mother and my sisters, and molded them into deformed creatures. Only I escaped, and now I am here. But my mother and sisters have been in anguish since. I beseech you. Free Mother and my sisters from the Flame of Chaos." I took it to be a general statement about her mother/sisters who were transformed (including Quelaag, Fair Lady, not part of the bed of chaos) - but I could see where you would interpret it that way!
you had until 9:45 thats a bit of a stretch cause the demons we fight don't posses any fire magic except for the firesage there for it would not make sense and all so i think quelana is the person who created pyromance and her mother created the chaos flame along with the demons whatever the reasons maybe this is a fact as in the power within item description it states that she harnessed the inner flame which means without using a wand
I'm pretty sure that the 5th daughter is the body hanging near Ceaseless with the clothes because after you pick up the clothes he goes crazy on you, as if you defiled one of his sisters graves who helped give him relief in form of the Orange Charred Ring.
pretty late to the party, but I had a question: why are they called daughters of chaos, if chaos was created by the witch of Izalith much later after the war against the dragons?
Because the people of the world knew them only as legends, and the Witch of Izalith essentially created chaos so therefore they are the Daughter of Chaos
it is possible that chaos did come first, and the witch was able to control the chaos flame for a while,(maybe just like the player can use chaos based pyromancy), but when she attempted to enhance that chaos flame into another "first flame", it went out of control.
Due to the nature of Chaos meaning randomality, every moment would be like roll of the dice. She may have been fortunate for some time and could keep it fine, but then it randomly went wild and killed/mutated her. Or maybe she put too much of her own power into this flame to strengthen it to First Flame status, and ended up putting so much into it that it became more powerful that the people who created it, and went rampant.
DARK SOULS 2 SPOILER WARNING!: So... in dks2 sorceries will control the use of magic and fire, but in dks1 they were separated... now the idea is that the use of fire as a sorcery was lost LONG AGO in dks1... but it was found AGAIN by somebody/something/someones much later in dks2... how come it be found again after so god damn long?!...
But she doesn't implement it, if she knows about why not mention of it, or why does she keep using a Pyromancer Flame? Now... the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence so it may be plausible... but so far there has been little connections to DkS1 so we can't say for sure... yet... soon.jpg
TheSepulchure How about NPCs not respawning after death, even as hollows? And if you want to believe that undead just die at some point, like a silly billy, why doesn't the player stop respawning? And with their mind intact, no less. So yeah there are things that are in the game just for gameplay's sake. :v
Lately I came up with theory (nothing to back it up though) that Velka was one of the Daughter of Chaos. Think about that. Velka is supposed to name the sins and force amends for them. What if she state creation of Chaos Flame (and pyromancy) was a sin? What if she blame all gods for it? Especially Gwyn for letting/forcing her mother doing that? And becouse she rejected pyromancy she needed something different in order to punish the gods, thus creating the occult/dark weapons to stand against the Gwyn's light?
Nito- Death Witch of Izalith- Life Gwyn- Light Furtive Pigmy/Possibly Manus- Darkness The Lords themselves even represent the desparity that the First Flame brought.
A bit late to this but I am just recently getting into Dark Souls as a whole, so this might be solved, but in the description for the Demon's Catalyst it says "The Demon Firesage was the first demon, and the last master of the original fire arts, BEFORE the Witch of Izalith was engulfed by Chaos", implying The Witch created the demons intentionally and not as a byproduct of her losing control of the Chaos Flame. So perhaps the whole event of the flame basically detonating and morphing everything around it into twisted new forms, was the Witch going mad from her newfound power and attempting to change everything around her into Demons? Could be a bit of a stretch, but a theory is a just a theory
I just want to throw out that there are no deformed bugs on either side of the bed of chaos. They're simply branches that you're smashing to break the orb/bondage. (I'm not saying this orb/branch isn't a daughter, it's just definitely not a deformed bug).
I would say that where you get the gold hemmed black robes is one of the sisters, simply because the ceaseless discharge leaves you alone but as soon as you take the robes from the body he becomes very aggressive, like you have defiled his sister's remains by taking the set.
If Grana is the one at the fog gate.. Quelana the one waiting in the swamp Quelaan is the fair lady Quelaan the Spider boss The 2 unnamed the make the bed of chaos Wouldn't that leave only one daughter missing, the one I believe is Cetepede demon instead.. the sister could have become the Ring itself to help his brother..other wise its weird to think its Firesage since Azylum doesnt use pyromancy, but Stray does..
One thing I found really sad was that I couldn't reunite the Daughter of Chaos Firekeeper with Qualana. After all, the egg servant does say that it would comfort her a lot if her other sister were to come to her. It also would have been worthwhile mentioning the old ring which lets you talk to the firekeeper. She talks about how the eggs have gone still, and how it isn't going to work, and apologizes to you (thinking you're Qualaag). Now I get the impression that they were trying to create some sort of offspring from their monstrous forms which would allow them to continue as a family and perhaps do something for their sisters and mother. Knowing that she was in pain and all her sisters were dead (save for Qualana), I euthanized her actually.
Was teh dlc set before or after the creation of the bed of chaos, there were no pyromancies shown in oolacile, and it was gwyn that sent artorias there, if teh witch of izalith tried to recreat the first flame after gwyn had left, does this mean that The witch of izalith and there for Izalith itself are not yet lost while you are in oolacile?
You said there was a connection between the Witch of Izalith and Nito besides that they're both lords. Why is it that Vamos is the blacksmith to use the chaos ember? There has to be something that draws the chaos fire and the catacombs together. He also has to be connected to New Londo, as he says the large flame ember is from New Londo, yet it is found in the demon ruins. Please connect this
(sorry for my english) I think that if the Asylum Demon and the Stray Demon are daughters of Chaos, they must be able to control and use fire as the Demon Firesage. Maybe the firedemon is one of Queelana's sesters, and the last daughters of Chaos are with their mother, as VaatiVidya think.
I don’t know about the last 2 but I know the 5th one of the daughters died and can be found in the discharges boos room it is the corpse that has the gold hemmed black armor set and that’s why discharge attacks you when you pick it up
7 Daughters: Quelaag The Fair Lady Quelanna The unamed Pyromancer before the Bed of Chaos The right Chaos Bug The Left Chaos Bug The Dead Pyromancer on the Altar 1 Son: The Ceaseless Discharge Quelanna would leave after you got all her spells and killed all her family. She would travel to a far away land and would end up becoming the Lost Sinner. She didn't scaped the Chaos Flame unscathed, as she indeed had a small chaos bug inside her, probably the same fate of the Unamed Pyromancer at the entrance of Bed of Chaos. It's said that the Lost Sinner came from far away and decided to lock herself away as penitence for her sin, that was trying to "link the fire". They tried to light the new fire and created Chaos. It's one of those few things that link Dark Souls 2 to the other two games.
Okay just taking a shot in the dark here, so if the Bed of Chaos is the mother of all demons, would that make Dark Souls a prequel to Demon's Souls? I mean I got NOWHERE in Demon's lol but yeah are they separate universes?(scuse me if that was the improper plural lol) Orrr could they be linked? If this has already been answered my bad but just wondered if it could be a possible connecting point?
I think (through everything I've heard) they are separate universes, not linked. The links that do exist (like Patches) are essentially cameos and such. A lot of people like to speculate the giant stone/area that's cracked and you cannot visit is Lordran.
Could someone please answer my question and tell me what on earth is that bug thing in the bed of chaos?!!! I always assumed it was the Witch herself and what she became after trying to recreate the first flame, hence why you get the lord souls from it. However, i was recently told I was totally wrong and that the bug creature is infact the first flame itself, and that it consumed the witch. I am so confused because I cant find a definitive answer to this, even after watching these videos im still confused.
It is the witch herself, or I think it is a representation of the lords list for control, hence why a big that looks the exact same controls the lost sinner in DS2.
I humbly necromance this comment chain with a theory. You notice how humanoid the upper portion of the Bed is before destroying the Side-Whatevers? My theory is THAT is what's left of the witch. The bug was a metaphorical guinea pig she used to create the Chaos Flame, is my headcanon/theory
I personally believe that Firesage is one of the daughters of chaos because of the catalyst description. One thing that I don't understand is who created the fire emeber and the chaos ember. We know the daughters of chaos are casters, not soldiers, and the demons seem to be guarding them perhaps because they feel that fire and chaos weapons are too dangerous. So who created the embers?
The maggot at the bottom of the Bed of Chaos could very well the "twisted and deformed creature" that the Witch of Izalith became when she was engulfed by the Flame of Chaos. It does appear to be on fire, and is reeling on its side, indicating that it is indeed in great pain. May hap the Witch's "1000 years of atonement" is burning and birthing demons in an awful existence. Gwyn suffers something of a similar fate, no?
maybe the two transformed bodies in the orbs of each side of the bed of chaos are sisters as well? This is what I assumed...and then the one in the middle I thought was the mother.
It's seems as though the Four Lords are showcased as being extremely power hungry. Perhaps the Witch of Izalith, doubting Gwyn's power to control the First Flame, sook to create her own. Perhaps the Demons were created by her to lead a revolution of sorts against Gwyn, but the power got out of control. Which in turn caused her to be consumed, and the few daughters that were with her at the time to become malformed.
Vaati's theory to me makes more sense but then again the 3 demons also make a lot sense to, but one thing I don't understand is 2 of the demons do burst attacks / explosions but the beginning one doesn't so then again idk which is a better theory.
seven witches. 1.qualag 2.fair lady 3.quelana, 4.eldest. 5 might be the firesage. leavnig 6 and 7. by leaving her outfit behind i guess we can discount the corpse. now i would like to think that some of the sisters lived, like qualana rather then...us killing the whole family.
Ha, that was my New Game ++++ character. (I think 4+ ...maybe 3+). So 100k souls is no thang. He just happened to be the closest to all of the footage I needed.
I think you create the missing two sisters thats why the old witchs ring is a starting gift, i have my own back story you make yours...also mix artorias armor with the gold hemmed set
i always thought the three remaining sisters were the maggot creatures , underneath the bed of chaos, that it draws power from and once all three are destroyed , the bed of chaos dies
VaatiVidya made that theory popular in his video, but there's really absolutely nothing in-game that supports it. I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just as a valid a theory as the ones I present. :)
Witch of Izalith didn't create pyromancy, since she and her daughters used catalysts, so whatever they did there it wasn't the pyromancy Quelana invented (and she probably created it like that because all her stuff was left in Izalith, like her catalyst, or, the version I personally like more, because she believied it's easier to control fire without mediator stuff like catalysts, like safer since you can feel it at once when something goes wrong or something)
+Lll Kk but look at the intro when there is said that witches of Izalith weaves great firestorms. There are 8 figures but only 7 catalysts. The one ahead, probably the mother, doesn't have it there.
+Irhak69 because she's holding a great soul(TM) with both hands in that video (or the fake flame she created). Or there's contradiction between the intro video and the lore because one of them was changed a bit while other didn't. Like chaos witch in front of Bed of Chaos gates using pyromancy (probably due to the game mechanics, obivously second part of the game (after Anor Londo) is a bit more raw than the first half, so I guess they didn't have much time to create sorcery equivalent of pyromancies to be used only once). Izalith catalyst states that fire witches used catalysts, Quelena is refered as creator of pyromancy (she taught that guy from great swamp who came back home and created that school if it can be called so) and from reading the descriptions/speaking to Laurentius one can conclude that pyromancy is all about being careful with flame and controlling it, obviously that what concerned Quelana the most after that stuff happaned to her mother and sister (though, there's a different question, is the Witch of Izalith their real, like biological mother, they're way smaller than her lol)
I believe the chaos flame was way more powerful than the first flame. This is supported by the bonfire maximum consuming 3 humanity and chaos weaps consuming 10. Also, the chaos flame was so powerful it could be weaponized and imbued to weapobs
I think all of the daughters are the ones you fight, when your looking for the bed of chaos, fire sage, body with the gold set, and scentepede demon theyre powerfull enought to be the sisters
So who would be the father? How did the Witch of Izalith give birth to 8 children? Maybe Gwyn is the father of her children or most of her children? Who is Gwynevere and Gwyndolin’s mother? Who are Quelaag, Quelana and the Fair Lady’s father?
So the four lords kind of fit into the corners of alignment. Gwyn being lawful good, nito chaotic evil, izalith chaotic good, and seath (being a scientist of sorts) lawful evil. That is fun if true.
That would imply that Nito is evil. Nito doesn't do or take part in any world events. He administers death but that's not evil in itself since the only beings that can't die are the Hollows, who are doomed to a fate worse than death. Nito doesn't go out to destroy the concept of order nor to establish it, he spends all his days asleep in his crypt. Nito is True Neutral.
elevate07 Well nothing in Dark Souls aligns evil as actually being evil. I mean evil more as a label. We call death evil and demonize the old gods like Hades even though they, if they existed, would have just been doing their jobs. Although I see your point, and now I think Nito should really be lawful and Seath chaotic. (Dark Souls 3 hype!)
Well if we go by the definition of destroying the sanctity of life and actively making life miserable and/ or hazardous for others than Kaathe and the Darkwraiths would be classified as evil since they hunted down other humans for their own gain (art of Lifedrain). This doesn't necessarily mean that I classify Gwyn as good either if we're going by the definition of actively preserving the sanctity of life and making it better for those around him. We don't know enough about Gwyn as a person other than he primarily cared about his Age of Fire, he banished his son, he had his second son raised as a girl, and he divided up the power of his Lord Soul among his clan. He was definitely Lawful since he established the current law and order of the world while Kaathe seeks to destroy it without necessarily creating a new order to take it's place. So for the Lords I'd say Gwyn = Lawful Neutral The Witch = Neutral Good Nito = True Neutral Pygmy =Chaotic Neutral/ Evil (depending on how much Kaathe is telling the truth)
I've always been fond of the idea that the spider bodies of Quelaag and the fair lady were in themselves sisters of chaos as killing Quelaag give you a twin humanity instead of just a normal humanity however this could be wrong as other female bosses also give you twin humanity and twin humanity is only found on the corpses of females.
Hm, while much of the speculation is quite good I wonder at the connection between Pyromancy and the Flame of Chaos. There appears to be some segregation between Chaos Pyromancy and normal Pyromancy. I always felt that pyromancy was the manipulation of the fire inherent in all creatures, gifted by the first flame. The With of Izalith, after all, made the Chaos Flame from a soul found at the first. Then chaos Pyromancy is born of the new Chaos Flame.
Maybe she's actually ascended into a great one from bloodborne because of her appearance considering bloodborne is after the flame fades and they enter the industrial age
Kazuto Kirigaya true cause gwyns first born was sinned for loosing his bolt i believe it said or something related to gwyn loosing his bolt and falling to demons
You said in the demons lore video that the residents of Izalith were transformed into demons, but in this one you say the demons were born of the chaos flame. I think I may be missing something, help me out here?
FappleJackity It goes hand in hand. The demons were residents of Izalith, transformed by the Chaos Flame. Bed of Chaos might possibly be spawning more demons, too
Was it ever explained how the first fire came into existance or why exactly these souls seemed to be born from it? Was it random occurance or did something make it.
who were the Lord's before they found there Lord souls? we're they just regular undead? are they like ornstein in which they weren't pygmies but they were similar to humans or what?
Well, not quite: as mentioned in the Izalith Catalyst description, the witch of Izalith and her daughters used fire sorcery, which was later developed into pyromancies.
Funny, if she had succeeded then there would be no plot. There would have been peace in an infinite Age of Fire. Poor Witch.
Damn.
Well she Kinda did
These videos are splendid. I really wish there was a lore video on the Gaping Dragon. That thing is so awesome and intriguing to me.
Touching on the statement that Demons were gathering humanity for the bed of chaos.
The Taurus Demon boss does drop humanity.
Misanthropic Drunken Loner doesn't all bosses?
Dio Zeppeli i mean it couldnt be helped since the pygmy was greedy enough to break the dark soul into pieces to have all of the pygmy be a soul carrier.
Like any dead pygmy is a free soul booster so why not gather them up?
I mean that really was your job but you dont just stop on the dark soul but the other lord souls too.
Wouldn't the witch be life, nito be death, Gwen be light, and the Pygmy be dark ?
Yeah, that's how it is pretty much.
What exactly show that her lord soul being specifically the "life" soul? tI seems that I am missing something.
CryoWalrus Well it's called the the life soul for one.
Yeah... but what makes it "life?" Nito became undead and could induce it at will in response to the soul of "death" but what makes The Witch's soul a "life soul?" The only life she made were her children (which she might have had asexually since she is a proto-human, and therefore may have a different biology) and the demons (which was by accident, and killed/mutated her in the process)
CryoWalrus Firstly Nito isn't undead, undead appeared after he got his soul. Now the witch's soul became The Chaos Flame which can create "unnatural life" in the form of demons, which it seems to create from nothing. This is why it's a life soul. It basicly becomes another First Flame that has its own life forms related to it.
The sisters as the Asylum, Stray and Fire Sage demons is definitely an interesting thought. I also like the idea that Quelana left her robes in Izalith in an attempt to make people think she had died, and maybe also to comfort her brother is some way?
Good job dude, keep them coming
i think solaire is a daughter of chaos
+ED I.N.C I agree with you
Still haven't played the Dark Souls III huh? Gwyns son turned out to be The Nameless King, who joined the dragons... The broken statues in DSI and the one missing in the O&S boss area resembles the Nameless King, not Solaire... The Nameless King is in Dark Souls III in Archdragon Peak, as a last optional boss, you get these things from his boss soul, weapon, rings and equip, which can be bought from Handmaid in Firelink Shrine.
how does me making a joke about solaire being a daughter of chaos before ds3 even came out make mean that. I Mean your right at that point in time i hadn't played ds3 but that has nothing to do with my comment.
Oh fuck. Didnt notice the month you posted it. Mb
I forgot to add that my comment was meant to be a reaction to Gabriel Perez's comment.. Still fucked up with the date tho sorry
Firesage is NOT Salaman, Quelanna herself give the timeline and the flame of chaos was created 1000 years ago and 200 years ago she took Salaman as an apprentice, and since Pyromancy is not a sorcery and Firesage is the last master of the flame arts (explicitly stated to be a different kind of magic) he could not be Salaman.
If Firesage is one of the daughters its is another thing entirely but look at the word engulfed; To swallow up or overwhelm by or as if by overflowing and enclosing
Maybe the Witch controlled the flame directly with the aid of 2 daughters and when they lost control over the flame those nearest where engulfed into the flame to create the bed of chaos, while those further away where either mutated (the spider sisters) or spared (Quelanna and the eldest daughter) while ceaseless had been mutated from the exposure to the flame of chaos from the womb (and who is the daddy anyway) oh and notice the height difference from the Witch (a giant) and her normal sized human daughters
I have been playing Dark Souls for over a year now and am still discovering new lore thanks to youtubers like you and Vaatividya.
I hope Dark Souls 2 will contain just as much interesting lore that many people will be trying to unearth and piece together.
Did anyone find it somewhat fitting that the WItch of Izalith was obsessed with the idea of creating life? Given she was the ONLY wielder of a Lord's Soul that was a mother?
It seems rather sexist, but think about it. Gwyn and the Witch of Izalith form diametric opposites in the manner by which they treated their households. Gwyn was rigid, emphasizing strength and duty, order over chaos. His treatment of one of his children, Gwyndolin, could be seen as cruel, enforcing his opinions of the gender roles associated with the astral cycle (Sun & Moon) onto his children. His eldest son, becoming a god of war, his daughter, a goddess of fertility, and his youngest son, due to affinity for the moon (a mythologically feminine trait) was raised as a daughter.
Meanwhile, the bonds between the family that is the Daughters of Chaos seem quite strong, significantly more compassionate than that exhibited by the Gods. In her obsession with the concept of life, and seeing the flames fade, it could easily have come that the Witch of Izalith attempted to re-create the flame in order to preserve the status quo for her family, who were utterly dependent of the Flame at this point. Her daughters still remained together save for Quelana, with Quelaag still protecting her sister Quelaan who was enfeebled, and Ceaseless Discharge still watching over the body of a fallen sister, his only solace being the hope that they watched over him still.
The Demons as well, despite appearing monstrous, show that they are content with peace in their land. Having spawned from the Bed of Chaos, they are all equally children in the family that the Witch of Izalith created, and barring outside aggression, are quite content where they are, with only a small few outside that domain, and even those could be seen as rebels, or a protective vanguard depending on one's point of view. The Demons haven't killed a single Daughter of Chaos despite them living in close proximity for quite some time.
While Gwyn typically emphasized masculine and patriarchal traits, the Witch of Izalith seems to emphasize more maternal ones through her obsession with the concept of life (not undeath, as Seath did) and the kinship between her family members are still quite strong even after the downfall of the age of Fire. Quelaag protects her sister likely feeding her humanity harvested from the hollows that try to brave her home, Quelaan protects those living near her home by consuming the blight pus, Discharge oversees the body of a fallen sister, and even Quelana seems to have returned to end the suffering of her mother and sisters. They all seem relatively compassionate to each other, even Quelana, despite asking the Chosen Undead to kill her siblings, seems to do so from the view that the Chaos corruption is a life of suffering.
It seems rather that they are all quite empathetic individuals towards those in their own realm, and only attack the player because he/she represents a tangible threat, given the most recent intrusion into Izalith was by an army under Gwyn's command.
I'm unsure, could be purely speculation, but the symbolism there stands pretty well.
HydraDominatus you have to kill at least three of her children to reach her, it's no wonder she's hostile
Jordan L Actually two. You don't necessarily have to kill the Pyromancer in front of BoC's fog gate. Only children of Izalith you're mandated to kill are Quelaag and Ceaseless Discharge
+elevate07 only quelaag
BunNGunLee Gywn was gone before Gwyndolin was born, he never knew his father and it is unclear who raised him, maybe Gwynevere?
BunNGunLee
So are the daughters of the witch of Izaleth , literal of just title for younger witches who join her ?
demon firesage could be one of the daughters of chaos ? darm she put on some weight...
Same with stray and asylum deamon not all Deamons are created equal
XD
it would explain data booty
Such a shame we never got to meet Izaleth, she seemed the most fair out of the Lords. (Besides furtive pygmy, who went on to create humans)
Dave I think you made a great point on the Firesage. "The last master of the original fire arts." I think that sounds like pretty clear evidence we're talking about the witches as we never heard of other fire sorcerers, especially since the pyromancers came after the flame of chaos as the item also states. It would also make sense that the most powerful beings in Izalith and most likely closest to the Flame of Chaos would be transformed first.
Dang I love this channel for the intricate connections you make all across the game! It never occurred to me that the Demon Firesage (and the other two) might be THAT important to the plot--I just assumed they were generic bosses From Soft copied and pasted. But considering their subtle lore details it definitely would make sense. As much as I love Vaati's theories, I think you hit the nail best.
Me too - beyond the gameplay being amazing, the self-discovery of the plot is such a great element. When I interviewed Yui Tanimura, they refuesed to give me any Lore details, so it definitely sounds like they're trying to do the same thing.
And something DaveControlLive forgot was that the witch of izalith is that little bug thingy that has got 1 health point.
Inkredeble mmo thats the baby. The witch is the wooden woman that is hunched over protecting it.
These videos are FANTASTIC! I already consider this one of my top 10 (maybe even top 5) favorite games, but all of these discoveries are just making me adore it even more!
The Witch of Izalith and her daughters are my favorite characters in the Dark Souls series
I watched your Pinwheel video a couple minutes ago and just subbed. I could watch these all day.
I've always dwelt on the lore in both souls games. Because as Ostrava of Boletaria back in Demon's Souls said "In the dark state of our land, legends are all we can depend on."
Keep it up. :D
I love you. Keep up the good work! Btw, great DS2 Lore!
Thanks! Glad you're also enjoying the DS1 lore. :)
Nia Gold ds2?
this makes me extremely excited. i love the whole mystery and speculation aspect of the lore
Wow, I had never thought of the Firesage and the Asylum and Stray Demons as the other three sisters. Great video.
yeah , that would explain their thicc thighs too ....
@DaveControl This is unrelated to the video, but related to Dark Souls 1.
How would you feel about a secret third ending? One where the lord souls are given to the dragon covenant in order to reset the world back to its former grey state.
I know this doesn't exist, but the idea struck me once I learned that there was an ending that plunged the world into a different age. The Age of Dark. What if it was possible to destroy the lord souls, including the dark souls, and remove the existence of light and dark at the same time, thus resulting in a grey outcome.
Please tell me what you think! Would love to hear your thoughts.
I think within the context of Dark Souls 1 alone, it would be a fun alternate ending.
Within the context of Dark Souls 2 - it almost seems like that's similar to the Age of Dark in a lot of ways. (In my opinion).
Awesome
Random thought inspired by Daves video: Everyone argues over who the mother of the painter in ariandel is, what if it was Qualanna all along? She ran from Izalith and learnt to fear the flame just as she warns us in darksouls 1. Perhaps in her quest for redemption she ended up in the painted world and while there she gave birth and then taught her daughter how flame is so vital and yet you must always be weary of such light and perhaps even taught her about the darksoul or the power of the chosen undead who controlled a part of its power
I don't think the Witch did so out of a desire for power, but to save every thing she and her loved ones fought to build. As the holder of the Life Soul she is a Goddess of Life the deific representation of Motherhood, and probably saw it as her duty to try and preserve life by replacing the dying flame.
I wouldn't say that the remaining daughters were the demons you meet at the Undead Asylem and beyond; because then they would be supporting Lord Gwyene in preventing the Chosen Undead from causing trouble. I say the last two sisters were with the Witch of Izilath and attempted to aid their mother, but failed, and became part of her; similar to Pinwheel when you think about it.
Maybe the two sister deamons in the asylum didnt like the plan to create life and ditched their mother to help the idea of extending the fire.
Cus when you think about it.. The demon in izalith guards the mother, and looks very, very fiery. The two in the asylum doesn't look fiery at all, and would be working for Gwyn
just food for thought :)
I think the description of the demon's catalyst is meant to say that the Demon Firesage is supposed to be the first of the demons to master the fire sorceries, and that he was the only one who remained a fire sorcerer, after pyromancy became an alternative. so he is 'just another demon' in how he was born, learned to become a master of his craft, a craft that then became obsolete after pyromancy was developed.
Thanks, I needed this stuff for the remastered version, thank you buddy,
I have to agree that the aforementioned demons in the video are the three remaining daughter of chaos. The AoE power that the Stray Demon and the Firesage Demon looks exactly the same as the AoE power of Chaos Witch Quelaag uses. The reason the Asylum Demon does not use this power is because it does not have a catylist, instead a large club.
Great video! I disagree with the idea of the Lord Souls representing aspects of the flame. I think they are just souls that, if you translated it to the game mechanics, just had the most points of any soul. Only the dark soul was unique, according to Kaath. I would say if we are trying to divide up the aspects described in the intro, they just get split between flame souls and dark souls. Flame souls (especially the lord variety) would completely embody light, heat, and death. The Dark souls got dark, cold, and life. Granted I know this video was made long before the Ringed City so the evidence wasn't as substantial. But in that same intro it states, "from the DARK they came..."
In regards to Denny's comment. (who's disabled replies) The three women at the start of Dark Souls 2 are Fire Keepers, this is literally covered within the first 10 minutes of the game. Fire keepers are no longer around due to the actions of Dark Souls 1.
I havent beaten dark souls 2 yet, but I thought that the woman by the bon fire in majula was a fire keeper. (oh and I killed those old women. I got lost, so I asked them where to go, but all they did was laugh at me)
I'm tempted to side with VaatiVidya's theory.
Look at the Bed of Chaos boss -- in addition to the two staffs, it also has four arms, as opposed to the Witch's two in the intro. The Witch herself did not use a catalyst at any point in the intro, even when she and the Daughters "wove great firestorms" to destroy the Petrified Forests.
Still, it seems like an incomplete set, until you remember that midway through the boss fight, a flaming figure erupts from the Bed of Chaos with two MORE arms of its own -- arms of living flame. Six arms; enough for three people. Add in the notion, helped along in Dark Souls 2's Lost Sinner intro, that the Chaos Bug holds the Witch's Lord Soul, and the notion presents itself: What if the energy form is the Witch's power, and the Bed of Chaos a merged form of her two daughters?
The idea that the final daughter is the corpse near Ceaseless is grisly, but not out of the realm of possibility, as its garb is identical to Quelana's, and we know Quelana believes her mother and sisters beyond salvation and deserving (or needing) to die. In addition, Ceaseless seems to be looking sorrowfully at the body, either because he's dumb and confuses her for Quelana...or because he knows she ISN'T Quelana, but another of his sisters, and his grief and protectiveness for her is genuine.
was thinking with the sisters being the asylum demon. . . that brings a new angle to your first demon video as to why would they be preventing strong undead from leaving the asylum and towards bed of chaos. It doesn't change it by much as the undead would need to satiate the lord vessel with the bed of chaos but still an interesting point to still bring up.
Crazy theory, one the sister of chaos missing is the bug crawling into the Lost SInner's eye at Dark Souls 2
Another great video as always, seriously loving them, KEEP IT UP! :)
I know that the time distortion in Lordran is often overused, but I think that the crazy sister you fight, the dead sister guarded by Ceaseless, and Quelana are all the same. This is reinforced by the fact that she still has her robes, but you can also loot them from the body. In addition, Quelana says she is the only sister who escaped. Could that mean that she was the only one who escaped mutation? If so, that would mean only three sisters are accounted for.
Thanks for these lore videos, I've gotten more of the story from these than the game itself ahhaha.
the seven daughters: Quelaag, Quenaan (fair lady), Quelana, body near Ceaseless, hostile outside of Bed, and the deformed bugs on either side of the Bed. the middle bug is the witch herself. speculation, of course, but that's the beauty of this game. you are SUPPOSED to speculate. they put all the keys there, but its up to you to find the holes in which they fit (and they DO fit... perfectly)
Would make sense the demons we fight being the remaining daughters of Izalith, since their guarding the bed of chaos by stopping the chosen undead may be as well an attempt to protect their mother, and as well minor demons merely serving their former ladies in this intent
Love these videos, keep 'em coming!
Actually, VaatiVidya did an amazing video on him. Check Oscar of Astora VaatiVidya.
I'm assuming you mean the following?
"The Flame of Chaos engulfed Mother and my sisters, and molded them into deformed creatures.
Only I escaped, and now I am here.
But my mother and sisters have been in anguish since.
I beseech you. Free Mother and my sisters from the Flame of Chaos."
I took it to be a general statement about her mother/sisters who were transformed (including Quelaag, Fair Lady, not part of the bed of chaos) - but I could see where you would interpret it that way!
I like your idea that the demon firesage, stray demon and asylum demon are the last daughters of chaos.
I really enjoy your videos, but I agree with Vaati about the other sisters.
Hey!
No worries - I was just presenting a different perspective!
Wow, didn't even expect a reply. I actually believe most of what you state is true, except the sisters' locations
you had until 9:45 thats a bit of a stretch cause the demons we fight don't posses any fire magic except for the firesage there for it would not make sense and all so i think quelana is the person who created pyromance and her mother created the chaos flame along with the demons whatever the reasons maybe this is a fact as in the power within item description it states that she harnessed the inner flame which means without using a wand
I'm pretty sure that the 5th daughter is the body hanging near Ceaseless with the clothes because after you pick up the clothes he goes crazy on you, as if you defiled one of his sisters graves who helped give him relief in form of the Orange Charred Ring.
That's what I thought too, also I believe she died creating power within. And the last two are are part of the bed being the branches on each side
she was sacrificed and her brother protects her body (to my knowledge may be wrong)
you 2 are both right. we do know that you will be able to cast fire scorcory but we dont know that all pyromancy will use a catalyst
pretty late to the party, but I had a question:
why are they called daughters of chaos, if chaos was created by the witch of Izalith much later after the war against the dragons?
Because the people of the world knew them only as legends, and the Witch of Izalith essentially created chaos so therefore they are the Daughter of Chaos
Shane N oh. Ok. Thanks for the explanation. :)
it is possible that chaos did come first, and the witch was able to control the chaos flame for a while,(maybe just like the player can use chaos based pyromancy), but when she attempted to enhance that chaos flame into another "first flame", it went out of control.
Marcos Danilo nice theory. :)
Due to the nature of Chaos meaning randomality, every moment would be like roll of the dice. She may have been fortunate for some time and could keep it fine, but then it randomly went wild and killed/mutated her. Or maybe she put too much of her own power into this flame to strengthen it to First Flame status, and ended up putting so much into it that it became more powerful that the people who created it, and went rampant.
DARK SOULS 2 SPOILER WARNING!:
So... in dks2 sorceries will control the use of magic and fire, but in dks1 they were separated... now the idea is that the use of fire as a sorcery was lost LONG AGO in dks1... but it was found AGAIN by somebody/something/someones much later in dks2... how come it be found again after so god damn long?!...
Quelana must still be alive ;P No doubt she would know of it
But she doesn't implement it, if she knows about why not mention of it, or why does she keep using a Pyromancer Flame? Now... the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence so it may be plausible... but so far there has been little connections to DkS1 so we can't say for sure... yet... soon.jpg
Could be simply for gameplay reasons.
Maybe, but that's never the case in Dark Souls.
TheSepulchure How about NPCs not respawning after death, even as hollows? And if you want to believe that undead just die at some point, like a silly billy, why doesn't the player stop respawning? And with their mind intact, no less. So yeah there are things that are in the game just for gameplay's sake. :v
Lately I came up with theory (nothing to back it up though) that Velka was one of the Daughter of Chaos. Think about that. Velka is supposed to name the sins and force amends for them. What if she state creation of Chaos Flame (and pyromancy) was a sin? What if she blame all gods for it? Especially Gwyn for letting/forcing her mother doing that? And becouse she rejected pyromancy she needed something different in order to punish the gods, thus creating the occult/dark weapons to stand against the Gwyn's light?
Nito- Death
Witch of Izalith- Life
Gwyn- Light
Furtive Pigmy/Possibly Manus- Darkness
The Lords themselves even represent the desparity that the First Flame brought.
A bit late to this but I am just recently getting into Dark Souls as a whole, so this might be solved, but in the description for the Demon's Catalyst it says "The Demon Firesage was the first demon, and the last master of the original fire arts, BEFORE the Witch of Izalith was engulfed by Chaos", implying The Witch created the demons intentionally and not as a byproduct of her losing control of the Chaos Flame. So perhaps the whole event of the flame basically detonating and morphing everything around it into twisted new forms, was the Witch going mad from her newfound power and attempting to change everything around her into Demons? Could be a bit of a stretch, but a theory is a just a theory
I just want to throw out that there are no deformed bugs on either side of the bed of chaos. They're simply branches that you're smashing to break the orb/bondage. (I'm not saying this orb/branch isn't a daughter, it's just definitely not a deformed bug).
I would say that where you get the gold hemmed black robes is one of the sisters, simply because the ceaseless discharge leaves you alone but as soon as you take the robes from the body he becomes very aggressive, like you have defiled his sister's remains by taking the set.
If Grana is the one at the fog gate..
Quelana the one waiting in the swamp
Quelaan is the fair lady
Quelaan the Spider boss
The 2 unnamed the make the bed of chaos
Wouldn't that leave only one daughter missing, the one I believe is Cetepede demon instead.. the sister could have become the Ring itself to help his brother..other wise its weird to think its Firesage since Azylum doesnt use pyromancy, but Stray does..
One thing I found really sad was that I couldn't reunite the Daughter of Chaos Firekeeper with Qualana. After all, the egg servant does say that it would comfort her a lot if her other sister were to come to her.
It also would have been worthwhile mentioning the old ring which lets you talk to the firekeeper. She talks about how the eggs have gone still, and how it isn't going to work, and apologizes to you (thinking you're Qualaag). Now I get the impression that they were trying to create some sort of offspring from their monstrous forms which would allow them to continue as a family and perhaps do something for their sisters and mother. Knowing that she was in pain and all her sisters were dead (save for Qualana), I euthanized her actually.
Was teh dlc set before or after the creation of the bed of chaos, there were no pyromancies shown in oolacile, and it was gwyn that sent artorias there, if teh witch of izalith tried to recreat the first flame after gwyn had left, does this mean that The witch of izalith and there for Izalith itself are not yet lost while you are in oolacile?
You said there was a connection between the Witch of Izalith and Nito besides that they're both lords. Why is it that Vamos is the blacksmith to use the chaos ember? There has to be something that draws the chaos fire and the catacombs together. He also has to be connected to New Londo, as he says the large flame ember is from New Londo, yet it is found in the demon ruins. Please connect this
4:24 "flame of her own..." Could mean she strived to equal Gwyn in Power. Or else Quelana might have said: "To create a new first flame"
You’re forgetting about the daughter of chaos that runs at you attacking you right before you approach the Bed of Chaos Temple...
(sorry for my english)
I think that if the Asylum Demon and the Stray Demon are daughters of Chaos, they must be able to control and use fire as the Demon Firesage. Maybe the firedemon is one of Queelana's sesters, and the last daughters of Chaos are with their mother, as VaatiVidya think.
I don’t know about the last 2 but I know the 5th one of the daughters died and can be found in the discharges boos room it is the corpse that has the gold hemmed black armor set and that’s why discharge attacks you when you pick it up
Sorcery of flame... That sounds OP
That last bit... WOAH...
7 Daughters:
Quelaag
The Fair Lady
Quelanna
The unamed Pyromancer before the Bed of Chaos
The right Chaos Bug
The Left Chaos Bug
The Dead Pyromancer on the Altar
1 Son:
The Ceaseless Discharge
Quelanna would leave after you got all her spells and killed all her family. She would travel to a far away land and would end up becoming the Lost Sinner. She didn't scaped the Chaos Flame unscathed, as she indeed had a small chaos bug inside her, probably the same fate of the Unamed Pyromancer at the entrance of Bed of Chaos. It's said that the Lost Sinner came from far away and decided to lock herself away as penitence for her sin, that was trying to "link the fire". They tried to light the new fire and created Chaos. It's one of those few things that link Dark Souls 2 to the other two games.
Okay just taking a shot in the dark here, so if the Bed of Chaos is the mother of all demons, would that make Dark Souls a prequel to Demon's Souls? I mean I got NOWHERE in Demon's lol but yeah are they separate universes?(scuse me if that was the improper plural lol) Orrr could they be linked? If this has already been answered my bad but just wondered if it could be a possible connecting point?
I think (through everything I've heard) they are separate universes, not linked. The links that do exist (like Patches) are essentially cameos and such.
A lot of people like to speculate the giant stone/area that's cracked and you cannot visit is Lordran.
Why in the world are you walking around with 115000 souls?!
Could someone please answer my question and tell me what on earth is that bug thing in the bed of chaos?!!!
I always assumed it was the Witch herself and what she became after trying to recreate the first flame, hence why you get the lord souls from it.
However, i was recently told I was totally wrong and that the bug creature is infact the first flame itself, and that it consumed the witch.
I am so confused because I cant find a definitive answer to this, even after watching these videos im still confused.
It is the witch herself, or I think it is a representation of the lords list for control, hence why a big that looks the exact same controls the lost sinner in DS2.
I humbly necromance this comment chain with a theory.
You notice how humanoid the upper portion of the Bed is before destroying the Side-Whatevers? My theory is THAT is what's left of the witch. The bug was a metaphorical guinea pig she used to create the Chaos Flame, is my headcanon/theory
GarySpurs a chaos bug.its like a parasite
I personally believe that Firesage is one of the daughters of chaos because of the catalyst description. One thing that I don't understand is who created the fire emeber and the chaos ember. We know the daughters of chaos are casters, not soldiers, and the demons seem to be guarding them perhaps because they feel that fire and chaos weapons are too dangerous. So who created the embers?
Maybe it's just:
Gwyn (Light, Fire, Life, Order) opposite to Dark Soul (Darkness, Death?, Order?)
Nito (Death, Darkness, Life) Izalith (Fire, Chaos, Life)
The maggot at the bottom of the Bed of Chaos could very well the "twisted and deformed creature" that the Witch of Izalith became when she was engulfed by the Flame of Chaos. It does appear to be on fire, and is reeling on its side, indicating that it is indeed in great pain. May hap the Witch's "1000 years of atonement" is burning and birthing demons in an awful existence. Gwyn suffers something of a similar fate, no?
maybe the two transformed bodies in the orbs of each side of the bed of chaos are sisters as well? This is what I assumed...and then the one in the middle I thought was the mother.
It's seems as though the Four Lords are showcased as being extremely power hungry. Perhaps the Witch of Izalith, doubting Gwyn's power to control the First Flame, sook to create her own. Perhaps the Demons were created by her to lead a revolution of sorts against Gwyn, but the power got out of control. Which in turn caused her to be consumed, and the few daughters that were with her at the time to become malformed.
Vaati's theory to me makes more sense but then again the 3 demons also make a lot sense to, but one thing I don't understand is 2 of the demons do burst attacks / explosions but the beginning one doesn't so then again idk which is a better theory.
seven witches. 1.qualag 2.fair lady 3.quelana, 4.eldest. 5 might be the firesage. leavnig 6 and 7. by leaving her outfit behind i guess we can discount the corpse. now i would like to think that some of the sisters lived, like qualana rather then...us killing the whole family.
Ha, that was my New Game ++++ character. (I think 4+ ...maybe 3+). So 100k souls is no thang. He just happened to be the closest to all of the footage I needed.
I think you create the missing two sisters thats why the old witchs ring is a starting gift, i have my own back story you make yours...also mix artorias armor with the gold hemmed set
I always thought Velka was one of the daughters, as she is a "witch" and a god, just like the Witch herself.
i always thought the three remaining sisters were the maggot creatures , underneath the bed of chaos, that it draws power from and once all three are destroyed , the bed of chaos dies
VaatiVidya made that theory popular in his video, but there's really absolutely nothing in-game that supports it. I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just as a valid a theory as the ones I present. :)
Witch of Izalith didn't create pyromancy, since she and her daughters used catalysts, so whatever they did there it wasn't the pyromancy Quelana invented (and she probably created it like that because all her stuff was left in Izalith, like her catalyst, or, the version I personally like more, because she believied it's easier to control fire without mediator stuff like catalysts, like safer since you can feel it at once when something goes wrong or something)
+Lll Kk but look at the intro when there is said that witches of Izalith weaves great firestorms. There are 8 figures but only 7 catalysts. The one ahead, probably the mother, doesn't have it there.
+Irhak69 because she's holding a great soul(TM) with both hands in that video (or the fake flame she created). Or there's contradiction between the intro video and the lore because one of them was changed a bit while other didn't. Like chaos witch in front of Bed of Chaos gates using pyromancy (probably due to the game mechanics, obivously second part of the game (after Anor Londo) is a bit more raw than the first half, so I guess they didn't have much time to create sorcery equivalent of pyromancies to be used only once). Izalith catalyst states that fire witches used catalysts, Quelena is refered as creator of pyromancy (she taught that guy from great swamp who came back home and created that school if it can be called so) and from reading the descriptions/speaking to Laurentius one can conclude that pyromancy is all about being careful with flame and controlling it, obviously that what concerned Quelana the most after that stuff happaned to her mother and sister (though, there's a different question, is the Witch of Izalith their real, like biological mother, they're way smaller than her lol)
does anyone know if the track right at the beginning where this girl is singing has a name ?
I believe the chaos flame was way more powerful than the first flame. This is supported by the bonfire maximum consuming 3 humanity and chaos weaps consuming 10. Also, the chaos flame was so powerful it could be weaponized and imbued to weapobs
So in the opening cinematic, before challenging the dragons, the witch of izalith has already created the chaos flame?
I like what developers are doing, they aren't cuting gameplay for sequel, they are cuting the story.
I think all of the daughters are the ones you fight, when your looking for the bed of chaos, fire sage, body with the gold set, and scentepede demon theyre powerfull enought to be the sisters
none of the sisters are the demons you fight, centipede demon was born from the orange charred ring
So who would be the father? How did the Witch of Izalith give birth to 8 children? Maybe Gwyn is the father of her children or most of her children? Who is Gwynevere and Gwyndolin’s mother? Who are Quelaag, Quelana and the Fair Lady’s father?
So the four lords kind of fit into the corners of alignment. Gwyn being lawful good, nito chaotic evil, izalith chaotic good, and seath (being a scientist of sorts) lawful evil.
That is fun if true.
That would imply that Nito is evil. Nito doesn't do or take part in any world events. He administers death but that's not evil in itself since the only beings that can't die are the Hollows, who are doomed to a fate worse than death. Nito doesn't go out to destroy the concept of order nor to establish it, he spends all his days asleep in his crypt.
Nito is True Neutral.
elevate07 Well nothing in Dark Souls aligns evil as actually being evil.
I mean evil more as a label. We call death evil and demonize the old gods like Hades even though they, if they existed, would have just been doing their jobs.
Although I see your point, and now I think Nito should really be lawful and Seath chaotic.
(Dark Souls 3 hype!)
Well if we go by the definition of destroying the sanctity of life and actively making life miserable and/ or hazardous for others than Kaathe and the Darkwraiths would be classified as evil since they hunted down other humans for their own gain (art of Lifedrain). This doesn't necessarily mean that I classify Gwyn as good either if we're going by the definition of actively preserving the sanctity of life and making it better for those around him. We don't know enough about Gwyn as a person other than he primarily cared about his Age of Fire, he banished his son, he had his second son raised as a girl, and he divided up the power of his Lord Soul among his clan. He was definitely Lawful since he established the current law and order of the world while Kaathe seeks to destroy it without necessarily creating a new order to take it's place. So for the Lords I'd say
Gwyn = Lawful Neutral
The Witch = Neutral Good
Nito = True Neutral
Pygmy =Chaotic Neutral/ Evil (depending on how much Kaathe is telling the truth)
Also no brakes on the hype train for seeing the Lords of Cinder in 3
elevate07 Choo! Choo!
I've always been fond of the idea that the spider bodies of Quelaag and the fair lady were in themselves sisters of chaos as killing Quelaag give you a twin humanity instead of just a normal humanity however this could be wrong as other female bosses also give you twin humanity and twin humanity is only found on the corpses of females.
Felking the hexer in dark souls 2 used a catalyst to use pyromancy
Hm, while much of the speculation is quite good I wonder at the connection between Pyromancy and the Flame of Chaos. There appears to be some segregation between Chaos Pyromancy and normal Pyromancy.
I always felt that pyromancy was the manipulation of the fire inherent in all creatures, gifted by the first flame. The With of Izalith, after all, made the Chaos Flame from a soul found at the first. Then chaos Pyromancy is born of the new Chaos Flame.
Maybe she's actually ascended into a great one from bloodborne because of her appearance considering bloodborne is after the flame fades and they enter the industrial age
The games aren't connected.
I think 2 of the sisters are Black haired witch velka and witch beatrice.
Um, turning someone into a bed? Really devs?
Still waiting for the Bodypillow of Chaos
who was her husband
As far as I know... we don't really know or have any clues as to the answer to that.
She wasn't human, it's possible she didn't need one, in fact its possible Gwyn didn't need one either.
Marquis Forneus gwyn did have a wife, we just don't know her name
triggerblade98 Could be each other.... Just a thought
Kazuto Kirigaya true cause gwyns first born was sinned for loosing his bolt i believe it said or something related to gwyn loosing his bolt and falling to demons
you are a legend
in all the ds lore videos only 1 said about the fact the witch of izalith was a giant! :D
I remember seeing somewhere that it does explicitly state some sisters were absorbed into the Bed. I can't say for certain who says it though.
You said in the demons lore video that the residents of Izalith were transformed into demons, but in this one you say the demons were born of the chaos flame. I think I may be missing something, help me out here?
FappleJackity It goes hand in hand. The demons were residents of Izalith, transformed by the Chaos Flame. Bed of Chaos might possibly be spawning more demons, too
Was it ever explained how the first fire came into existance or why exactly these souls seemed to be born from it? Was it random occurance or did something make it.
Not that I know of. I think it was a random occurrence.
Video: life and death and of course...
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who were the Lord's before they found there Lord souls? we're they just regular undead? are they like ornstein in which they weren't pygmies but they were similar to humans or what?
Pyromancies existed from the very beginning, as the witches utilized them to fight the dragons
Well, not quite: as mentioned in the Izalith Catalyst description, the witch of Izalith and her daughters used fire sorcery, which was later developed into pyromancies.